Just Because Certain Crimes Are Going Viral Doesn’t Mean Crime Rates Are Increasing
from the what-you-see-isn't-always-what-you-get dept
Perception matters more than reality, especially when your budget is on the line.
Law enforcement agencies like to portray criminal activity as constantly rising, especially now that they’re facing additional scrutiny and the occasional so-called “defunding” effort. It’s a weird way to handle (government) business. On one hand, the cops claim rising crime necessitates more funding. On the other hand, an endlessly escalating crime rate tends to demonstrate cops aren’t an effective solution to the problem.
Portraying America as crime-ridden has worked out well for most law enforcement agencies. The tough questions are almost never asked by local legislators who tend to give cops whatever they want, rather than risk being perceived as “soft” on crime.
These efforts are assisted by the media, both social and otherwise. Viral footage of smash-and-grab robberies have flooded the internet, leading to calls for more cops. Lackluster vehicle security has lent itself to spikes in very specific auto thefts, now that joyriders and professionals alike have discovered manufacturers like Kia have sold millions of compromised vehicles to unsuspecting customers.
On top of all of this is the “Thin Blue Line” lie. Cops claim they’re the only thing standing between us and utter criminal chaos. But they tend to drive this point home by pointing to all the crime they’ve failed to prevent (or solve), evidently confident most of the general public will misconstrue the data in law enforcement’s favor. This is also why they continue to agitate for special rights and less oversight. The job is dangerous, they say, while conveniently ignoring years of subpar policing has made things the way they are, rather than some increase in criminal-mindedness in the policed — people who are generally unable to directly benefit from increased crime.
The FBI continues to gather crime stats from local law enforcement agencies. It’s an imperfect system — one that has been recently complicated by additional demands for more granular detail. The data being handed to the FBI tends to be incomplete or inaccurate. The data handed to local oversight is even more so.
The FBI, however, must work with what it gets. And years of “uniform” crime reporting at least provides baselines for comparison, even if the data is often flawed. A bad data baseline sets the standard for future reporting. Even if it’s impossible to tell how accurate this data is, it can be compared to past, similarly-flawed, reports to draw inferences about crime rates.
Guess what? Crime is down yet again — something difficult to infer from social media activity and nightly news reports that portray criminal activity anomalies as day-to-day criminal business.
This examination of the FBI’s latest crime data by David Lautner of the Los Angeles Times perforates the perception: crime is not on the rise in the United States, no matter how much anecdotal evidence is dumped into citizens’ brains via careless reporting or even more careless amplification of a handful of viral clips.
Homicides in the U.S. dropped significantly in 2022 and have plummeted even faster this year, putting the country on track for one of the biggest declines in killing ever recorded, crime statistics show.
That’s great news. Fewer people than ever are being killed by other people in the United States. Of course, that significant decline has been ignored because other criminal activity is making more headlines: i.e., pockets of property crime driven by isolated instances that are portrayed as a nationwide epidemic in theft.
The homicide drop reported by the FBI is probably only half the actual drop in homicides. The data presented by the FBI isn’t real-time. Instead, it presents a picture of a reality that’s at least a year old by the time it’s reported. And the data isn’t updated on the fly as more local law enforcement reporting arrives at the FBI offices. Consequently, the 6% drop in homicides is likely double that, which would make this one of the most precipitous drops in year-to-year homicide rates ever observed in this country.
The FBI data, which the bureau compiled from reports filed by 18,888 local police departments, lags nearly a year behind reality. [Crime data analyst Jeff] Asher, who puts together data from departments that cover a large majority of the nation’s population, says that so far this year, homicides nationwide have declined 11% to 12%.
But asking Americans if crime is down never results in a “yes.” What they see splashed across their many screens is what they assume is the reality, even though it’s just an amplification of noise that easily drowns out the signal. Violent crime may be up slightly year-to-year, but Americans tend to assume the murder rate has never not increased every year.
The public perception is very different. Gallup, for example, has surveyed Americans every fall for years about crime. Last year’s survey found that by 56%-28%, Americans said crime had increased in their area.
Violent crime, especially homicides, have declined almost every year for most of the past three decades. Crime rates hit their high in 1991. Since then, steady declines have led to something most Americans have been unable to enjoy due to media sensationalism: historically low crime rates that make this nation one of the safest on earth.
That’s why people (and legislators) still insist on “tough on crime” policies despite criminal activity being at an all-time low. What they see is what they think, but they’re being fed a steady diet of “the world is ending” content by social media and local news stations.
The power of anecdote explains much of it: In a country of nearly 340 million people, some crime takes place every hour, every day. Those incidents stick in people’s minds, especially when the details are grisly. Vivid stories have far more power than dry numbers to shape how people view their world. And in the social media era, crimes anywhere can be just a click away.
“Every time there’s a smash-and-grab, it just amplifies in people’s minds that crime’s out of control,” said pollster David Paleologos, director of the Suffolk University polling center, which has surveyed residents of many of the country’s major cities.
It’s not that criminal acts don’t happen. It’s that many people treat subjective reporting as objective reality. What’s being amplified isn’t the reality of a situation. And it never will be. What makes headlines and gets millions of re-posts isn’t a slice of life that distills the overall reality into one eye-grabbing recording. Those are things on the edges of everyday life — things that happen but do not depict what people can expect the moment they leave the relative safety of their homes.
Somehow, this all works out for the government. The tacit admission it can’t control crime should see people demanding more accountability from these agencies and more hesitancy to let legislatures issue blank checks for cop stuff. Instead, the opposite happens: people demand harsher criminal penalties, increased funding for law enforcement agencies, and greater hysteria from everyone in their social circle.
If there’s any good news, it is this: people are less likely to believe all the stuff that didn’t work in the high-crime 1990s is likely to be any better now, even if they believe (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary) crime is on the rise. Cops can’t just brutalize their way through this, something some candidates have discovered while trying to reclaim the spirit of the 90s more than 30 years later.
After the killing of George Floyd in 2020, when some Democrats on the left embraced calls to “defund the police,” Republicans stepped up efforts to tag Democrats as soft on crime. Despite widespread worry among Democratic elected officials, however, that effort fell far short of its goal in both 2020 and 2022, including in the Los Angeles mayoral election, in which Rick Caruso leaned heavily on concerns about crime and homelessness in his unsuccessful campaign.
Even the people who vote the most — predominantly white people over the age of 55 — aren’t willing to embrace everything that didn’t work in the 1990s, even if they believe crime rates are actually worse than they were 30 years ago. Fifty years of drug war losses will do that even to the most conservative or jaded voter. Locking people up on the regular didn’t make cities safer then and it won’t do it now. There are underlying concerns that need to be addressed — something that can’t be handled by facists-come-latelys who think the only way to combat a nonexistent crime problem is converting their bailiwicks to police states.
Filed Under: crime, fear, moral panic, police




Comments on “Just Because Certain Crimes Are Going Viral Doesn’t Mean Crime Rates Are Increasing”
I would argue that people (of any skin color) over 55 are less willing to embrace things that didn’t work in the ’90s … because they remember the ’90s.
Young ‘uns don’t remember, but back in our day…
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Democrat-run failing cities are crime ridden, and getting worse every day, TC–even if you wish that weren’t so. Us productive members of society want more police, and we want them to go even harder at the thugs and their communities.
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I’m sure then that you support the fbi arresting trump, and other business people who commit the same crimes?
Or like so many right wing racist trash you only care about the crime that the poor and non-white commit?
The sad fact here is despite mountains of evidence showing that cops don’t even want to stop crime you believe that more of them around will change anything.
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This is the best reply you can muster? Seething envy of successful business people and vaunted political elites like former President Trump?
I care about crime that has the potential to impact me personally…stuff like robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny-left, motor vehicle theft, etc.
Who commits those crimes (especially the violent ones) at a higher rate per capita than White people? I’ll wait…
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hi hyman low life you loser trumper
Re: Re: Re:
“…vaunted political elites like former President Trump?”
If bumbling through a single term of presidency before getting indicted for stealing classified work product the US tax payers paid for in vengeance at being voted out is what it takes to become vaunted, I’ll remain a non-entity, thank you.
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Shh honey the adults are talking and it’s past your bedtime.
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Obvious troll is obvious.
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The “dropped” from a crazy ~30 year high.
6%, you say? But maybe it’s 12% (you of course are just hoping)? Declined almost every year for 30 years?
Yeah except for 2020 and 2021 where they pretty much doubled (in many cities, I don’t have handy nationwide statistics but the point is they went up a LOT)
So 6% is basically meaningless. Violent crime is really fricken high, higher than most people have known in their adult lives. It’s great it hasn’t gotten worse in the last year but it’s still very very bad.
This is from the MM school of cherry-picking numbers to gaslight, dang.
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The article you didn’t read links to the source on the 12% claim.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/newsletter/2023-10-20/killings-in-the-u-s-are-dropping-at-an-historic-rate-will-anyone-notice-essential-politics
6% was 2022. This year is 2023, not 2022 (i know you have difficulty with the concept of linear time). Current trends in reports suggest a 11-12% drop for 2023.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
Unless most people are younger than 13, Most people in the US have experienced worse violent crime rates.
This also supports the claim that the crime rate has been shrinking almost every year for the last 30. And violent crime rates in this nation did not double.
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holy crap that’s a lot of dumb.
12% is still just a guess.
You seem to be claiming that the violent crime rate is lower now than in 2013. That’s simply not true, and your “Statista” link appears to either be showing completely incorrect data or (possibly) playing definitional games to make it looks like there wasn’t a huge spike in 2020, but there undeniably was.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murder-homicide-rate
If you use a better datasource it’s about as high in 2021 as it was in 1996 or so. Also I said “adult” lives, learn to read. But more importantly that statista data is very obviously wrong.
You can flip between general crime rate and murder rate on this site, it follows mostly the same curve. Crime is very high, and would still be so even with a 6% drop, which no, is not “significant”.
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Guys, instead of pointing to third party source, both of you can go direct to the data source, which is the FBI’s crime data explorer:
https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend
That shows the chart that James posted is the violent crime rate, which has indeed dropped massively.
The chart that Matthew posted is just the homicide rate, which as he notes did increase in 2020 and 2021, but then dropped in 2022, and is still way less than the 1990s. And what the article is reporting on is that after the drop in 2022, it appears that the drop is continuing in 2023 (and showing a significant drop, back towards pre-pandemic era rates of the early 2000s).
In other words, the claims that violent crime is rampant is simply not supported by the data.
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Re: Re: Re:2
And then:
Wow, Masnick!
1) Murder is a hardline metric, “violent crime” is not, because it depends on what is reported and charged with what. It sounds like it has a set definition but absolutely doesn’t, and it doesn’t even make sense for murder to go up and general violence to go down…it’s reporting error. It’s not like ciminals suddenly got a lot more precise and thoughtful about killing.
Homicides are a much better metric.
2) Your graph does NOT replicate James’s at ALL, actually. Yours is weirdly cropped to exaggerate change, but the high and low points are different by 15-20, making me think different definitions are used. Homicides are a much better metric.
3) Actually, it’s about the same as 1996, so no, you’re lying there. Classic Masnick.
4) 6% is not “massively”. Descriptors are inherently opinion, but c’mon, you’re lying here too, Masnick. (oh, btw, your data shows 4.5% drop over two years so it’s an even tinier drop and this article is an even bigger lie).
This statement is directly refuted by the data, even the data YOU showed. (which again, I’d much rather use Homicide data) Did you look at it, like at all? Do you even math?
Re: Re: Re:3
Tranalation: Matthew Bennett provides yet more evidence he is incapable of reading and understanding numbers, along with English.
Re: Re: Re:3
Do you enjoy doubling down when you’re wrong? Because the only things you got right only tend to refute your conclusions.
Yes, there was a spike of homicides in 2020, but it never reached the levels it reached in the 90s, and it has been going down ever since.
As for “massive” being subjective, while technically true, we’re comparing to other drops in the past, which is far more objective.
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I’m just gonna reply here since MM seems to censor a lot of my replies to him directly:
His data doesn’t actually replicate James’s data, at all.
“Violent crime” sounds like it is a well defined metric, but is subject to all sorts of reporting errors. Homicides are a much better metric, no fudging, and there’s little reason to think those would vary separately.
Even if you use Mike’s data, it shows a drop of 4.5% over two years. Not 6%, definitely not 12%, and none of that is “massive”. It’s tiny.
Homicides right now, btw, are about the same as 1996, not “way less than the 1990s”.
It’s just lies from top to bottom.
Re: Re: Re:2
hi matt the revenge porn enjoyer
Re: Re: Re:2
Maybe the cops should be fired for not reporting data correctly, or even lying about it?
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Re: Re: Re:3
I mean, yes, but it’s almost all prosecutors, not cops. (yes, a lot of it is Soros-funded prosecutors)
There’s a a combination of things like aggravated assault getting downgraded to simple assault (or less), which would remove it from that stat, to robbery just not getting prosecuted at all, meaning there’s no point to reporting it.
So your assumptions are all wrong but the answer is “yes”.
Re: Re: Re:4
It’s hilarious how you guys latch on to shit like this like an emotional support blankie and just fucking run with it.
Re: Re: Re:5
That’s exactly what their bullshit beliefs are: an Emotional Support Reality.
Re: Re: Re:2
Nice moving of the goal posts. The 6% drop he’s referring to is year-over-year.
Homicides in 2022 were 6.3 per 100k. In 1996, they were 7.4. That’s a whopping 14.8% difference. That’s not “almost the same”.
More importantly, the homicide rates for 1990-1995 averaged 9.2 per 100k. 2022 had 31% less than that. That’s a massive drop, which was the point you apparently missed because of your MDS.
It’s good to know that you’re still consistent in your bias.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Yes, you actual moron. The ACTUAL DATA shows 4.5% over two years. I.e. less than half that. 6% would be wholly unimpressive but it was way, way less. (this in “violent crimes” not homicides, which again I think is a bad measure)
That’s me moving the goal posts how, exactly? Are you bad at reading comp or critical thinking? Pick one
I was just lining up points on a graph, hence the “~”. It was less in 1997. I have no idea what you think you are proving here. !996 was higher than 2022 and 1997 was lower, soo…are you crowing about me being off (with a “~” no less) by about a half a year?
No, not that, actually, not important at all. The important bit is that Masnick’s claim “Way less than the 1990’s” is just massively false. No, you don’t average the whole decade against one year. “The 90’s” had years that wee roughly comparable or less than 2022. There is some year long window around ’96-’97 that exactly mirrors the homicide rate 2022.
Do you not understand math and statistics or are you just lying with purpose?
Re: Re: Re:4
People have asking you that question repeatedly and the answers are always evasive or just “shut the fuck up”.
Re: Re: Re:4
Matthew’s every accusation projects a confession.
Re: Re: Re:3
Hint: 1996 is more than halfway through the 90’s, the 6 years in the 90’s proceeding 1996. Had homiciderates that were quite a bit worse than 1996.
Now, Some 60 odd percent of the population is over 45 years old, and therefore were adults at that point, so Fact -most- of the US population have seen worse Homicide rates in their adult lives.
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This is always fun. Crime is even lower than “the good old days when we never bothered to lock our doors”. No one believes (or simply bothers to process) the stats, but even for the “it was safer in the old days / small towns” people, they always seem to have rather colorful anecdotes of criminal activity. Some cognitive dissonance + more stuff is reported more frequently in more places these days.
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I suspect that crime hasn’t fallen across the board, but had instead shifted to robbery, carjacking, and shoplifting. Stores in democrat run cities are closing because crime is increasing, and not falling, so that’s your real time indicator.
When money is on the line, folks with skin in the game aren’t betting on low crime.
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The companies closing those stores are using crime as an excuse for those closings. Earlier this year, Walgreens admitted it had probably overblown a supposed shoplifting crisis that was causing merchandise losses.
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Your link doesn’t even quite say what you suggest — it’s an off the cost statement of one executive, and “shrinkage” may indeed have gone down…after they locked everything up and hired armed guards, which both has huge costs and probably suppresses sales.
But even if it did, what’s your thesis? All these massive, data driven chains are pulling out of a handful of deep blue cities based on a whim? “institutional racism”, perhaps? No, dude, they’re pulling out because suddenly the stores were making a lot less money, are probably deep in the red.
Your comment is false on it’s face.
Re: Re: Re:2
I’m sure you can supply the facts you are basing your argument on, can’t you?
If you can’t, well then, your comment is only some non factual opinion built on your feelz.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Did….did you want article links of the dozens and dozens of really big stores pulling out of SF, Seattle, Chicago?
Or the Walgreens in NYC that had EVERYTHING behind a locked case, top to bottom?
Or that companies follow profit motive?
Really?
Man, you must’ve felt real smart for a half second when you posted that.
Re: Re: Re:4
hello revenge porn enjoyer
Re: Re: Re:4
So in a post on how media stories about crime make things look worse than the actual crime stats show, you offer us… more media stories. I think you’ve missed the point entirely, but I bet you felt real smart….
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Re: Re: Re:5
Except they’re all real things, and this supposed “massive” drop in violent crime is not, at all. It’s a very slight pull back from a very real, painful high.
So yes, it is ironic how dumb this article is.
I’m saying “the point” is actual lying bullshit, do you think “you missed the point” is witty? Nah, son, I hucked the point over the fence, it’s bullshit.
Re: Re: Re:6
lol, you celebrated a cop kneeing on a black guy for a little longer than was necessary and now you’re living with the consequences. Tough tits. Maybe you should ask davec to adopt you.
Re: Re: Re:4
Do you actually live in one of those ‘Democrat-run shitholes’?
Re: Re: Re:5
I’m tempted to say “of course not — because if he actually lived in one of those “democrat-run shitholes” he’d know better.
However, I have repeatedly seen that “conservatives”(a.k.a. MAGA/QAnon/Trumpists/”Republicans”) can be astonishingly proficient at ignoring awkward reality, even when standing hip-deep in evidence contrary to their preferred narratives.
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Maybe if cops were filling millionaires and billionaires with lead for stealing millions instead of executing people for stealing dollars then things wouldn’t be going this way.
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Robbery and carjackings are violent crimes that the police will pursue, and DA will prosecute. So why would a criminal bother with that when they can simply and daily walk out of a store with hundreds of dollars’ worth of merchandise and no fear of even being arrested?
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So the problem you have is cops are letting criminals rob stores?
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Re: Re: Re:2
The problem is the Soros DAs who won’t prosecute and jail criminal scum.
Re: Re: Re:3
Another nut-job who thinks Soros is behind everything he doesn’t like.
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Because that’s a line of “reasoning” that’s convenient to their narrative.
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Re: Re: Re:2
Because he’s the leading donor for politicians who back these DAs. Gets them into office. Pushed publicly to not pursue crime. Yes, he is directly involved. It’s not convenience, it’s fact.
Re: Re: Re:3
George Soros is Jewish, and a lot of the hate he gets for anything he’s even remotely attached to is born from antisemitism. If you want to make us think Soros is the sole cause of those DAs being elected (“he paid off the politicians who elect them!”), you should maybe consider whether you sound like an antisemite.
Then again, maybe you already have.
Re: Re: Re:4
https://capitalresearch.org/article/living-room-pundits-updated-guide-to-soros-district-attorneys/
Being Jewish does also not grant immunity from criticism, regardless of whether woke ideologues screech “antisemitism!” when people notice what Soros has been doing. In light of how woke ideologues have been cheering the Palestinian terrorists who raped, murdered, and kidnapped Israelis, their using “antisemitism” as a get-out-of-jail-free card for Soros is especially bitterly ironic.
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Well, you know, if a “progressive”, like George Soros for example, openly and massively supports open democratic initiatives, then that’s cause for deep suspicion and fearful concern… but if a “conservative”, like Harlan Crow for example, covertly funds disguised anti-democratic initiatives or quietly corrupts the highest court in the land, then that’s just how things are supposed to work — and what’s the problem?
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Right, yeah, it’s like if a Democrat objects to an election result but otherwise doesn’t do anything to stop the certification of that election, that Democrat is a traitor and a threat to democracy, but if a Republican does everything he can (including maybe some illegal actions) to stop the certification of an election and watches as his supporters violently storm the building where that certification is supposed to happen, that Republican is a goddamned morally righteous freedom fighter who deserves another term in whatever public office he held prior to losing his election.
(…excuse me I need to throw up now)
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Re: Re: Re:6
You just can’t get past the msnbc nonsense, can you.
Only a tiny tiny fraction of the population think the election was “stolen”.
A large group, myself included, see deliberate crime and ignorant mismanagement all over, but not result changing, in that election. A huge fear for future elections.
This all could have been addressed properly and publicly. But the democrats ignored it because any suggestion that Trump was at all correct is just not fathomable.
Governors changed the process without state legislation. Those results are invalid. According to the constitution.
Many states, including my Illinois, closed voting locations on the day of the election with no public information until you reached the door. That is disenfranchising. Seniors and the poor found it difficult or impossible to go to a second location.
Interesting that the closed locations were primarily in republican districts but I’ll sidestep conspiracies here.
Election interference is real, and your lack of acknowledgment is telling.
But for most, Biden won. Barely.
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Nah. Even in the rest of the world outside the USA, we know that this is mainly, even characteristically, a pattern of Republican electoral shenanigans.
Re: Re: Re:7
Biden won. Barely.
Well then, if you think Trump won in a landslide victory in 2016 with 304 votes, what does it do to your ass-backwards ‘barely’ comment, when Biden won in 2020 with 306?
Barely my fucking ass. Learn how to math, idiot.
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Re: Re: Re:8
Trump barely won in 16. But 16 is not contested.
Re: Re: Re:9
Neither is 20, apart from the losers serving jail time because they think it was. But hey, stay true and stay uneducated!
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Re: Re: Re:10
I assume you have a point? Make it. I have never said Trump won the election in 20. I pointed out that there is documented fraud and that multiple governors committed treason.
That’s very different than saying the criminal activities changed the result.
I am concerned that ignoring such an assault on our process will lead to more assaults. And eventually the system will fail.
Re: Re: Re:11
For what reason, then, are you still willing to vote for the same man who instigated those assaults on democracy? Because you’ve said it before, and you’ll probably say it again: You’re going to vote for Trump next year because of Biden’s connections to Hillary Clinton (i.e., The Super-Devil herself).
But it wasn’t Biden who questioned the results of the 2020 election. It wasn’t Biden’s campaign and Biden’s lawyers who fought like hell to prove the existence of massive widescale voter fraud that didn’t happen. It wasn’t Biden’s allies—and Biden himself—who demanded a stop to the certification of the election, who goaded a crowd into storming the Capitol, who sat back and watched the violent insurrection unfold without so much as trying to stop it until hours later. That was Donald Trump.
Consider this, Trumpist: Criminal investigations tend to get more specific, not more broad, as the authorities close in on charging people and taking them to trial. If someone talks about “the Biden crime family”, it means they’ve got nothing on Joe—because if they did, they’d say so. Compare that to the 90-plus felony charges Trump is facing, all of which name him and describe the crimes with which he’s charged. And yet, you’re still out here willing to defend Trump as a wholly innocent party who has never once used subtext or dogwhistle language (both of which you don’t believe actually exist) because you hate Hillary Clinton that much.
Joe Biden is a centrist needledick who carries with him all the problems of American liberals. He wouldn’t be my first choice to be POTUS in any year. But he is the only choice in 2024 because no one else is going to stand a chance against Donald Trump. And Donald Trump is a fascist who, if elected to a second term, will destroy all the guardrails of American democracy to seek revenge on everyone he believes wronged him. The GOP, which is little more than a fascist party these days, will help him because helping him helps Republican lawmakers further their Christian nationalist agenda.
And you still think voting for Trump is a good idea.
I hope you enjoy running with those leopards, Lodos. When they finally eat your face, your complaints will be met with silence—at best. And you will have no one to blame for that but yourself.
Re: Re: Re:11
No more than any other election year, with the vast majority of it favoring the Republicans, who would still have lost even if those votes were counted.
Right, so, treason is defined in the U.S. Constitution. Please explain how your allegations, even if true (which they aren’t, or are at least misleadingly stated), would constitute treason under US law.
Now, in reality, those changes were already challenged, with the courts upholding most of them, and none of them would have resulted in any change in the results due to measures taken because of the legal uncertainty.
I mean, what the governors did wasn’t criminal, but fine. Trump certainly feels differently, unfortunately.
The ones who committed voter fraud weren’t ignored; they were prosecuted for it except where it was determined to be an error. Your concern has already been dealt with.
As for the governors’ actions (or, in some cases, the actions of Secretaries of State), those were also dealt with in court and so not ignored; to the extent they were actually problematic legally, they were dealt with according to the law, but most of them weren’t unlawful in the first place. Once again, your concerns have already been dealt with.
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Re: Re: Re:12
Get it through your thick partisan head: it doesn’t matter who the beneficiary is: it’s criminal.
Georgia, Michigan Pennsylvania Wisconsin all violated the 2nd amendment. Michigan, Illinois, California, New York, did the same at lower levels of government.
As far as I’m concerned, usurping the method of election law governance constitutes treason. Just like the handful of idiots that entered the capital by breaking in (and excluding those who were allowed in with no violent intent).
Explain then the criminal governors any mayors who were not prosecuted.
Not the supreme court, as the only suit that made it that far was tossed with lack of standing. States cannot sue other states for actions entirely within the other state.
Re: Re: Re:13
Does Trump know about all the fanfiction you’ve been frantically writing a manifesto-sized document for?
Re: Re: Re:14
I doubt it. Considering it has nothing to do with Trump.
If you want to know what happens when you ignore crime, just ask San Francisco, Chicago, and New York.
Ignoring election crimes just because they don’t change the outcome, burrowing your head in the sand, makes it more likely to not only continue but escalate.
Every election crime must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. From disqualified voters and fraud to treasonous governors who violated the federal constitution.
Yes, treason. An attack on the election process is an attack on the very core of our nation.
Re: Re: Re:15
Go make another Jan 6th then, Lodos, if it means so much to you.
Funny thing is, if not for the fact that Trump has already proven how much of his neck he’ll actually stick out for fanboys like you, you’d probably already have shot yourself silly.
Re: Re: Re:16
Depends on what you mean. If by 1/6 you mean peacefully protest, I don’t really do that sort of nonsense. It doesn’t change anything. Protesting is generally pointless look-at-me self-aggrandising.
If by 1/6 you mean the few dozen idiot who broke into the capital and terrorised a few Democrats, not a chance. Every one of those few dozen criminals should be tried and convicted. Charges from treaspass up to terrorism. Every one of those few dozen went directly against the call of the President to march peacefully. In doing so they cast a shadow over the legitimate concerns of the public that day.
Re: Re: Re:17
That was what your team, to this day, refer to as “peacefully protesting”. You seem to know better than them, I’m sure you’ll figure out a way to prance about with horned helmets and assault rifles and call up the rest of your Proud Boys to parade outside chanting death threats and demands to hang Mike Pence. Go for it, Lodos! I believe in you! Thoughts and prayers! You’ll make American revolutions great again! Hahahahaha!
Re: Re: Re:13
I don’t understand why we, the public, should make a massive stink about every single crime. I think we should focus on the things that actually made a difference.
Irrelevant. They’re still part of the US, so US rules apply.
I don’t care about your personal definition of treason. It isn’t treason under the law. Deal with it.
It was far more than a handful, but here’s the thing: I don’t consider that to be treason, either. That was insurrection.
There’s no evidence that they did anything to be prosecuted for. The only evidence of fraud in the election is one case in North Carolina, where a Republican committed ballot harvesting, and several instances of individual voter fraud. All of those were prosecuted. The claims made about supposed criminal behavior by mayors and governors were investigated and found to be lacking in actual evidence or were not actually illegal.
Yes, but they were dealt with in other courts. Why does it have to be the Supreme Court, specifically?
Re: Re: Re:11
I pointed out that there is documented fraud and that multiple governors committed treason.
So fucking what? You’d think with all of that documented fraud, something would’ve changed.
It didn’t. Some loud-mouthed idiot who ‘believes’ something happened isn’t the same as it actually happening.
There’s been 3 years of this bullshit and not one court case has made fuck-all of a difference. Except for the idiots who are in jail because of 1/6 or the other idiots facing bankruptcy because of their undying support for bullshit. Ask them how being full of shit and acting on it worked out.
Your concern is misguided, and if you can’t see that for yourself after all of this, you’re part of the problem with America – half of the population will belive anything, even if their own eyes see otherwise.
Re: Re: Re:12
“Some loud-mouthed idiot who ‘believes’ something happened isn’t the same as it actually happening.”
Been in the UK a few years ago? Prince Andrew is asking.
Re: Re: Re:12
Let us review once again the facts. I reiterate, for most non-republicans vocal on this the results don’t matter: the problem does. (Many republicans state the same, you just jumped to your own conclusion one what other people think).
At the highest level state governors modified election rules unilaterally, in violation of both the federal constitution and state constitutions and laws. And for some; that’s treason.
At the lowest level mayors and village boards closed or refused to open polling places, with no prior communication on that fact. People in hundreds of towns across the country, including myself, arrived at the designated polling locations only to find a sign on the door that they were closed, and where the nearest open one was (in some cases tens of miles away). That’s actual disenfranchisement. The elderly, People without cars, people without enough income to pay for secondary transportation, were unable to vote.
Many cases of ballot mishandling are provable. Ballots, completed and sealed, were found dumped. In parking lots, side of roads, trash dumpsters.
Vote counts were made in many locations out of direct line of sight of poll watchers. Meaning many counts did not have direct civil oversight. By law(s) a poll watcher must be able to see each ballot counted. In two notable cases watchers were told counting had ended for the day and sent home. Only for the counting to continue after they had left.
Following the election, three locations had been found to have destroyed ballots despite laws requiring preservation. Arizona and Georgia. And in Utah: despite a court order, where a worker is now facing prosecution (finally) for shredding ballots.
These crimes are real. They are an assault on our nation. They must be prosecuted to the highest level of punishment available.
Very few people say Trump won. Less than a partial percentage point of our population. The winner doesn’t matter here! The process does.
Re: Re: Re:13
Someone really drank the Sidney Powell Kraken-aid right from the source, eh?
Re: Re: Re:14
I thought she was up on voting machine fraud. Those come from clarified sources such as the NYT.
Re: Re: Re:14
CNN: There have been two incidents where ballots were found in a dumpster or trash can: 99 ballots heading to voters in New Jersey and nine ballots “incorrectly discarded” by a temporary worker in Pennsylvania
NPR: 261 polling places in the state [of Iowa] have been closed, most due to COVID-19.
Atlantic: Across the metro area, more than 80 voting locations had been closed or consolidated over concerns about the coronavirus… Georgia’s meltdown was not an anomaly
Even the extreme right WaPo covered the dingbat
WaPo: A former Utah county clerk is accused of shredding and mishandling 2020 and 2022 ballots
Should I keep going.
Re: Re: Re:15
Yeah, keep going. I want to see all the crimes that you guys keep insisting happened but then pissed yourselves when the judge asked to see your election fraud evidence.
Re: Re: Re:14
You have to remember that Lodos is a Trumpist. He voted for Trump twice because he hates Hillary Clinton for being…I dunno, a woman, a Democrat, take your pick—and as a result, he also hates anyone associated with Hillary Clinton (which includes Joe Biden). He keeps denying the idea that Trump was an awful president because he wants so hard to believe that Trump did actual good and had actual good ideas that didn’t amount to “we need to become like North Korea and shut the U.S. off from the world”. He keeps denying the idea that Trump knows how the words he speaks, from the moment he announced his presidency up to this moment, will be taken seriously by the worst elements of the people who support him and used as justification for everything from anti-Muslim attacks to insurrections against American democracy—even if Trump himself never directly calls for such actions.
Lodos doesn’t believe in subtext and context, just the plain text. Lodos doesn’t believe in Trump being a racist and a misogynist. Lodos doesn’t believe Donald Trump is capable of doing anything wrong unless he can actually see Donald Trump committing a criminal act or saying “do this criminal act for me”—and even then, he’ll probably find a way to justify that shit as “he was doing it for the good of the country” or whatever.
He will defend Trump to the last. He will defend Trump’s age and mental status, even as he criticizes Biden for the same issues and even though Trump is only three years younger than Biden, to the last. He will defend Trump’s policies—his giving permanent huge tax breaks to the rich while doing nothing to help the poor, his trying to ban Muslims from entering the country, his demonizing people from Mexico and South America as “invaders”, his cozying up to fascist dictators, his attempts to route around Congress and the judiciary so he could live out his fantasies of “Article II lets me do whatever I want”—to the last. He will never say anything negative about Donald Trump because he must believe Donald Trump is better than Hillary Clinton in every way or his entire worldview will fall apart.
Lodos is a Trumpist. You cannot save him. He has done this to himself; only he can save himself.
Re: Re: Re:15
Who said anything about saving him?
I want to watch him go down in flames, with the ship, carrying the water of the people he claims to detest.
So far he’s picked up every single piece of bait I’ve laid out for him. And like the Republican sucker that he is he doubles down like Chozen singing the praises of ivermectin.
Re: Re: Re:16
There’s no bait. You intentionally target small pockets of right-leaning policy you know I support to pretend 90% of of my views are not far left
Re: Re: Re:17
Just because you’re 10% shit doesn’t make you not shit.
Go inject yourself with horse dewormer.
Re: Re: Re:18
I prefer the vaccine platform that Trump brought to the public faster than any other in history. Far faster than any said could be done.
Those that chose an antibiotic over the vaccine made their own decision, I simply disagree with it.
Re: Re: Re:15
A progressive Democrat in name that wants to pretend she cares by spending your money, my money, but never her own.
No, I want to stop spending trillions on other country’s self inflicted issues. And ways of zero concern to our existence.
I believe in personal responsibility. The only person responsible for actions they take are the person taking the action. I don’t point fingers. It’s the progressives that blame others for being failures.
No. Outdated pervert? Yes.
Exactly: that’s how laws work.
Maybe check my history recently, where I said I was worried Trump is becoming senile.
Tax cuts help. They break the cycle of inflation. If you don’t agree with that, I can’t help you.
Citizens from terrorist countries
Did they enter the country legally? If not they are invaders. Period. Check your dictionary.
Huh?
Maybe actually look at my response to McDumProg’s list you like to link.
Trump is flawed. But far from the worst for the 99% of the country.
Re: Re: Re:16
“I’m not a fan of Trump, but I will frantically gargle his balls if someone vaguely insults his reputation.” – LostinLodos
Re: Re: Re:17
When you have some wort condemning I’ll gladly do so. See my response to McConsoiracy’s list.
Take your homophobic arse elsewhere.
Re: Re: Re:4
That’s the first time I heard he was Jewish. I don’t care about a person’s faith. I care about their actions.
He is a leading progressive donor and supports disastrous policy.
Re: Re: Re:5
Can you give us your view on his policy and why it’s so disastrous? Also, please provide citations to this stated policy.
Re: Re: Re:6
Trad at all cost. Immigration at all cost. Big government at all cost. Total lack of individual choice. A protective baby state
Re: Re: Re:7
What proof do you have that the positions you attribute to him because he is a progressive Jewish man with a lot of money are the positions he actually holds?
Re: Re: Re:8
I attribute the positions of A person they pay to support as acceptance of those positions they are paying for.
It is a typical progressive tactic to label and tag and categorise people. You are the only one who brought up religion. And you appear stuck in it.
If you continually donate to the same people and they maintain the same policies you are supporting those policies.
Re: Re: Re:9
Can you show me, then, where Soros has personally funded anyone who has explicitly expressed the positions you attribute to Soros himself?
Labels aren’t definitions with rigid boundaries; they’re general guidelines to approximate relevant information. By saying “George Soros is a rich Jewish man”, I’m giving you a guideline to some relevant information—specifically, that Soros being rich and Jewish opens him up to antisemitic accusations that involve conspiracy theories about Jewish people. If you can’t deal with that, that’s your problem to fix.
That’s because you want us to believe you didn’t know George Soros was Jewish despite (a) that fact being well-known to people who follow American politics beyond surface-level understandings, (b) that fact being brought up on this site numerous times before, and (c) your insistence on sounding like one of the antisemites who want to talk mad shit about Soros.
Can you show me where the rich Jewish man you want to keep shittalking explicitly supports the positions of “trad[e] at all cost, immigration at all cost, big government at all cost”? Can you show me where George Soros has ever once explicitly espoused any of those views in his own words? Because if you can’t…well, I don’t want to believe you’re an antisemite, but you seem to be trying to make me think you’re one.
Re: Re: Re:10
American Bridge 21st Century
Priorities USA Action
Move On
All progressive groups.
New America( which has some good but also pushes extreme environmental policy).
And then there is the more specific targets:
DNC Services Corp
Progressive Change Campaign committee
Various donations to clinton
And just under the limit to every Democrat and progressive party committee in 2016.
When you donate you are directly funding the cause of action. Looks to me his money consistently and constantly goes to progressive causes.
Re: Re: Re:11
That’s a broad label. You mentioned specific ideological positions that you claim Soros must hold due to his donations to those groups/people. Either show me the evidence (beyond those donations) that Soros holds the specific ideological positions you’ve attributed to him or admit that you don’t have such evidence.
Re: Re: Re:12
My evidence is the fact that he supported groups financially that hold those positions. Knowing those positions would be funded.
Just like my donations to planed parenthood knowingly support abortion, despite my wish we had free healthcare that eliminated the majority cause of abortion.
Just like my support for the NRA goes to fighting all gun regulations despite my knowing handgun violence makes up 99% of gun crime and should have better restriction.
Just like my support for peta also pushes vegan ideals, despite the fact that I rather enjoy meat, especially beef, pork, and elk.
When you send financial support to an entity, you are liable in message for all of their causes, not just one.
Re: Re: Re:13
Thanks for confirming you protest Derek Chauvin’s conviction, just like davec. You two loverboys really are made for each other. Problem is you might be in some serious competition with davec’s son.
Re: Re: Re:14
Feel free to show how all my comments saying the guilty officer was properly convicted is protesting against that.
Re: Re: Re:14
Oh! I get it. Let’s ignore that the criminal piece of crap was a criminal piece of crap because he was killed by big bad white man.
The cop is responsible for the criminal piece of crap’s death. He should have verified that the drugged up health compromised criminal piece of crap was still alive. He killed him. Clear and simple.. he was tried and convicted.
And no, the criminal piece of crap didn’t deserve to die.
Grow up. Life’s not fair.
Re: Re: Re:15
Life’s not fair, indeed. You didn’t get the president you wanted in 2021, and now your team gets to be mocked over and over for trying to cosplay a great American revolution.
Re: Re: Re:16
More accurately, the party of protest put their hypocrisy on display for the world to see in doing exactly what the republicans did for years: blame the entire peaceful protest for the acts of a very small group.
After demanding the country ignore nearly a billion in damages and thousands of injuries, you turn around and blame the few dozen criminals on the whole.
Hypocrites.
Re: Re: Re:7
Do you have any evidence that he actually supports those positions? Or are you just taking the word of others on the matter?
I’m not going to say that you are antisemitic, though I personally doubt your claim that you never heard of his religion before since this exact discussion has come up so many times on this website; however, most claims made criticizing Soros tend to originate from antisemites if you go back far enough and often aren’t factually true. This is why many on the left tend to suspect antisemitism so frequently on this subject. A lot of things get blamed on him that he didn’t even fund, let alone direct.
Re: Re: Re:7
And the GOP dream is to turn everybody into slaves for the good of the state, that is the elite that run the estate. Meanwhile their supporters are like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Re: Re: Re:5
That’s bullshit, and I don’t believe it.
Re: Re: Re:6
Why? Because you can’t see a person without a tag or label attached? I really didn’t know, and still don’t care.
Not really sure how I could know. Without someone telling me. Do you regularly keep track of the religious beliefs of politicians and rich people?
Re: Re: Re:7
Because it’s well-known to anyone who pays attention to politics beyond the surface level—which you apparently want us to believe you do—that a significant amount of “criticism” aimed at George Soros is actually antisemitism. A not-zero number of people, many of whom are your fellow Trumpists, believe—regardless of any evidence saying otherwise—that Soros is either the primary or the sole benefactor behind numerous left-wing (or percieved-to-be left-wing) individuals/groups, specifically as part of a plot amongst Jewish people to gain/retain political power on an international scale. If you’re really going to sit here and tell me that you never knew George Soros was Jewish until the moment you read my comment despite your attempts to make yourself sound like you understand politics on a level beyond “Trump good, Biden bad”, you’ll need to pray to a god of your choice that I have enough brain damage to believe you, because I’m not that stupid and you’re not that convincing.
Re: Re: Re:8
You read too much garbage and you think I’m in there reading it with you. The Jewish conspiracy theory is as old as Jews existed.
Nobody normal gives it any credence or credibility.
Here’s a political idea for you: most democrats (in office) are openly hostile to Isreal. So no, I never would have placed a Jewish donor of any substantial wealth would be donating to their very vocal enemies.
Re: Re: Re:9
Israel ≠ Jews
Also, not giving credence to ≠ not being aware of.
Re: Re: Re:10
Israel was created as a Jewish resettlement from occupied peaceful land holders.
It may not be entirely Jewish, but that was part of the legal foundation of the new state.
Re: Re: Re:9
And antisemites keep spreading those theories by claiming that George Soros is, like, funding the secret UN takeover of the United States on behalf of Jews around the world or some shit. In the United States, that level of rank antisemitism is near-exclusively the domain of conservatives/right-wingers.
Even if that were true—which it isn’t—you’re making the same antisemitic mistake on accident that Trump does on purpose: You’re assuming that Jewish people, even those born and raised entirely in the United States, automatically represent/support Israel.
Someone can be opposed to the actions of the Israeli government without being antisemitic. That you don’t seem to believe otherwise is your problem. Fix it yourself, Trumpist.
Re: Re:
It hasn’t risen across the board either, assaults, robberies burglaries have remained on a downward trend, the spikes have been primarily in auto theft, and homicide and larceny, and of those, auto theft has been increasing since 2016, the homicide rate is declining again, and even the larceny rate is only at approximately 2018-19 levels.
The other big thing is that nobody screaming about crime rates, does more than blame it on the left being anti-police, or soft on crime, they can’t be bothered to think that we are still recovering from the huge economic shock the pandemic caused, particular in the poorest communities, where people turn to crime when they can’t make ends meet other ways.
I'm reminded of the classic TV show "Brass Eye"
…and its “crime” episode, with the wonderful graph delivered with the line;
“So much for recorded crimes, but crimes we know nothing about are going up as well”
Maybe the overall crime rate is lower than 2 years ago (maybe the lockdown caused much crime…) but it may be (slightly) rising in dense populated areas, so most people feel less secure.
Also, it’s the same level as 2019, et still significantly more than ten years ago.
I’m not sure about theses raw numbers, without any correlation, there not much we can say if theses homicides are related to a specific political or economical context, or simply anything related.
Also, there not much of difference, from 360 to 400 yearly deaths for 100,000 people, it’s still very high (compared to most developed countries in the world).
Still, it glimpses that much people are more afraid of everybody else when they feel personally less secure (mostly for financial reasons), that the opposite.
News is always biased towards reporting actual crimes, and away from reporting actual crime levels. The problem being nothing happened here today does not make the news, but the one crime in a decade is splashed all over the front pages.
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This is good news, so why is Tim making shit up??
Overall, this is great news!
But for some reason, the author has chosen to add in some dumb, evidence-free commentary that really denigrates the entire thesis of the article.
Really? I travel out of the country frequently. Where’s the data illustrating this statement? Does Tim mean per capita, or some other metric? Violent crime or overall crime? Can he back this statement up, or is he just pulling it out of his ass?
Similarly …
So now you’re making up numbers from this year that even the FBI don’t have, and pretending that the EXCELLENT drop in violent crime is actually MIRACULOUS because … um … statistics are always a straight line, I guess?
There’s a potentially good article here, but the author has decided that fake stats make for a better one. So here we are.
Re:
Did you not bother to click the links to the sources used?
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The public’s perception of crime is due to the fact they see more of it. There is a lot of criminal activity that is allowed to continue simply because cities don’t have the manpower or the willpower to stop it. People are watching criminals methodically go from one car to another, smashing the windows to steal what’s inside. They are watching shoplifters fearlessly walk out of stores with hundreds of dollars’ worth of merchandise and no one stops them. People go to sleep at night and wake up to find their car windows smashed and their catalytic converter gone. They see the homeless encampments, streets covered in filth and needles with half-dressed zombie like addicts slowly dying day by day (everyone knows someone that has died of a drug overdose). Shops are closing because their customers don’t want to navigate through the filth.
Earlier this year a new law went into effect in California that prohibits police from citing people suspected of soliciting sex based solely off appearance. Sounds reasonable, but this is result–
Sex workers in National City hurt businesses | cbs8.com
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/national-city-businesses-hurting-alleged-rise-sex-workers/509-60643105-9cc3-4a0a-9051-a110c5fd0ced
Re:
Well you look like a criminal!
Instead of going after that person breaking into cars, I am going to beat you and jail you!
Maybe the problem is that cops don’t want to stop that kind of crime. They would much rather hit another officer in a fun high speed chase.
Even if you got what you wanted… it wouldn’t stop or get better because you want to solve the outcome, not the root problem.
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Re: Re:
Except I don’t look like a criminal.
I look like what I am: a successful and reasonably affluent white heterosexual male. The police look at me and they see an ally, a supporter, someone who they know will defend them regardless of any abuse or beating I might lamentably witness them handing out to thug BIPOCs. I back the blue, and they, in turn, don’t persecute me.
Re: Re: Re:
hi hyman trumper
Re: Re: Re:
That statement doesn’t do you any favors because it also means you support the police persecuting people who don’t belong to your demographic.
Re: Re: Re:
I remember when Elon Musk promised not to fire the people who came to the office to work for him. In exchange, the most dedicated of his simps Instagrammed pictures of their sleeping bags under their desks.
Less than a year later? Those simps were fired too.
Compliance to a tyrant and demonstrating your loyalty to them doesn’t endear you to them. It doesn’t teach despots that loyalty should be rewarded. It teaches them that if it becomes convenient to wipe you out or fuck you up, you’re dumb enough to not complain about it.
Re:
And your solution, at least as far as anyone here can tell, is to give more funding to the same police departments that aren’t solving that problem instead of the agencies and institutions that could help solve that problem. After all, that’s all you ever seem to show up here for: the uncritical and unceasing kissing of police ass as a “counter” to the criticism (earned or otherwise) of any law enforcement officer/department/agency.
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Re: Re:
It’s mostly prosecutors (yes, Soros funded) who are just straight up refusing to prosecute certain crimes.
It really doesn’t have anything to do with police. They ARE arresting less, but only because they know there’s no point.
Re: Re: Re:
Soros funded? Only nut-jobs trots that excuse out.
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Re: Re: Re:2
…you realize saying that doesn’t make it true, right?
Both the funding and the resultant policies are well -documented.
https://nypost.com/2023/01/22/george-soros-spent-40m-getting-lefty-district-attorneys-officials-elected-all-over-the-country/
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Re: Re: Re:3
hi revenge porn enjoyer
Re: Re: Re:3
Well if the NY Post says so it must be true!
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Re: Re: Re:4
1) ad hominem
2) NYpost is considerably less biased than say, NYT. Just cuz your favorite source didn’t tell you about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. (indeed, that’s where the vast majority of the bias occurs)
3) It all has citations. This is not debatable, at all, it doesn’t matter if you don’t like it. Like this is actual public record stuff, there’s not even any conclusions to draw.
4) I have never seen a more smug “I live in a bubble” statements, ever.
Re: Re: Re:5
…hallucinated nobody mentally competent, ever.
Re: Re: Re:5
We’ll add that to the list of things you don’t understand.
If one throwaway quip about the Post is the smuggest thing you’ve ever seen I’d suggest you need to get out and experience life more. Or just work a bit harder on your insults.
Re: Re: Re:5
The NY Post is a tabloid. Bias isn’t even the main issue here.
Also, you don’t understand ad hominem. The point is that you were claiming that you have a source. The objection isn’t that your assertion is clearly false; you just failed to present a reliable source for it. That’s not an ad hominem.
Re: Re: Re:3
It’s telling that you couldn’t find a single factual source.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Ad hominem.
It’s not like there aren’t citations, or anything.
Re: Re: Re:5
you dont understand what ad hominem means.
Re: Re: Re:
Can you link to any evidence that supports the idea that cops are arresting people who are not being prosecuted even though there is clear evidence of the crime?
Re: Re: Re:
It really doesn’t have anything to do with police. They ARE arresting less, but only because they know there’s no point.
Sure it does. Their job isn’t contingent on what happens after arrest. Your problem is with the police deciding on who not to arrest instead of letting the DA (who actually knows the law) decide.
Don’t like it? Tough shit. Cops with the help of their equally ignorant unions have argued for the equivalent of a grunt job. Stop making excuses for piss-poor work ethic.
And remember this little guy…a DA can’t prosecute when the cops decide not to arrest. Stop blaming the higher rung in the food chain, and put it with the assholes at the bottom who are supposed to be feeding it.
Re:
There is a lot of criminal activity that is allowed to continue simply because cities don’t have the manpower or the willpower to stop it. People are watching criminals methodically go from one car to another, smashing the windows to steal what’s inside. They are watching shoplifters fearlessly walk out of stores with hundreds of dollars’ worth of merchandise and no one stops them. People go to sleep at night and wake up to find their car windows smashed and their catalytic converter gone.
Then tell the cops tasked with fighting all of this crime to put the fucking donut down and do their fucking jobs. Whether or not a DA prosecutes further is not the cops’ concern, nor is it their job, given they’re not required to know the laws they’re supposed to be enforcing. None of their enforcement depends on their judgment as to whether or not a DA will prosecute it further.
Sorry if that hurts your understanding as to how each job works, but cops can’t be ignorant of the law when convenient, while using their own initiative based on their perception of someone else’s work.
They can continue to be dumbfucks and do the grunt work their unions have lobbied for.
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Re: Re:
The cops in some cities are so understaffed that they can only address violent crime. They don’t have time to arrest a shoplifter who will be back in the store shoplifting again before the officer can even finish the paperwork which will be thrown in the trash by the DA. Calls where people are killed, raped, robbed or injured take priority and many of those take hours and multiple units to address.
Re: Re: Re:
They don’t have time to arrest a shoplifter who will be back in the store shoplifting again before the officer can even finish the paperwork which will be thrown in the trash by the DA.
Again, since you must’ve missed it the first time – that’s not the cops’ concern. Stop making excuses, especially how ‘paperwork’ is time-consuming in a digital, paperless age.
You’re full of shit, and nobody’s buying the excuses anymore.
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Re: Re: Re:2
For the most part cops aren’t even involved.
In California Newsome just signed SB553 which is going to make it a violation of Cal/OSHA for employees to even confront shoplifters that alone try and stop them. Union contracts and OSHA don’t want people to get hurt. In fact an employee can be fired for trying to prevent shoplifting.
CA bill banning confrontations with shoplifters sees pushback | abc10.com
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/california-bill-confrontations-shoplifters-workers/103-d81d84c1-3b2d-4217-a7fc-cac9032494cc
Stores can hire their own security but if the DA isn’t going to prosecute there is no point in even calling the cops.
When the security guards take someone into custody and calls the cops if it is less than $950 they are charged with a misdemeanor and released. Then the cops have to write a report on what was taken, who called, when they called, race of the caller, race of the shop lifter, the ID of the shoplifter, what happened when the shop lifter was confronted, where was the shop lifter confronted, who first notice the shop lifter, was video evidence available, what did the video evidence show, did the shop lifter attempt to flee, did the shop lifter attempt to hide the stolen merchandise, and about a 100 other questions.
Then the DA throws that paperwork in the trash.
Re: Re: Re:3
Store employees aren’t allowed to arrest anybody. They never have, and never will. They can detain someone, bu if they’re wrong it opens them and the store to liability if they’re wrong. If the dipshit cops aren’t required to know the law, you want to hold employees to a higher standard?
More fucking excuses isn’t doing anything to strengthen whatever point you’re desperately trying to make.
And the DA doing something or ‘nothing’ still isn’t an excuse for your fuckup cop friends to sit on their hands. Their job is to arrest, not prosecute, as they’re not required to be well-versed in aspects of the law itself.
So stop trying to offload fucking lazyness on DAs since we both fucking know that a prosecution can’t happen with a fucking arrest, now can it?
But you be you and continue to argue that they won’t arrest because the DA won’t prosecute, and yet the DA can’t prosecute without an arrest/charges.
I hope this link helps you out, because once again, your bullshit argument is convincing no one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
Re: Re: Re:4
Most companies don’t allow employees to do even that these days for liability reasons.
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Re: Re: Re:4
We have all seen the videos of employees trying to retrieve a shopping cart full of shoplifted items from the shoplifter. With SB553 this would be a violation that could get the employee fired.
You work really hard at being stupid and it shows.
I just gave you an example of what happens when the cops bring someone in for shoplifting less than $950. N O T H I N G ! ! ! It’s a misdemeanor like jay walking and even if the DA does prosecute, N O T H I N G ! ! ! happens. The DA is telling the cops, “With Prop 47 in effect, you are wasting your time and mine.”
Fortunately, not everyone is as dense as you. Store managers and security personal work with the police to trespass the shoplifter from the store. At least then, they can prevent the shoplifter from entering the store or have him arrested for violating the trespass order which carries a maximum penalty of up to 6 months in jail.
Re: Re: Re:5
I just gave you an example of what happens when the cops bring someone in for shoplifting less than $950. N O T H I N G ! ! !
Then change the law. Until then, the cops are supposed to do their fucking job.
It’s a misdemeanor like jay walking and even if the DA does prosecute, N O T H I N G ! ! ! happens.
Saying the same thing twice, isn’t any more convincing.
The DA is telling the cops, “With Prop 47 in effect, you are wasting your time and mine.”
For the nth time – for the slow asshole in the back (that’s you,idiot) – they don’t report to the DA.
Store managers and security personal work with the police to trespass the shoplifter from the store.
If that’s the case, the police need to:
At least then, they can prevent the shoplifter from entering the store or have him arrested for violating the trespass order which carries a maximum penalty of up to 6 months in jail.
Shoplifting in my state for items under $900 total carries a maximum penalty of up to a year in jail.
Last I knew, 1 year > 6 months. Do you concur, or are you going to continue making yourself look like jackass?
(And, BTW – I don’t live in California, so I really don’t give much of a shit what they do there. That’s for Californians to decide, so if you’re not happy with it, go fucking move there and vote.)
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Re: Re: Re:6
They don’t prosecute misdemeanor shoplifting in California because as so often pointed out the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. However, they will enforce trespass laws as a matter of safety.
SO
Cops (not being near as stupid as you or your opinion of them) pursue trespass laws which the courts will enforce for safety reasons.
Get it??? Do what works, don’t do what doesn’t work! What a fucking concept. Blew your mind, didn’t it!
I know you don’t give a shit, but this is California’s approach. We will have to wait and see if it works.
California to Make Largest-ever Investment to Combat Organized Retail Crime | California Governor
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/09/12/ort-grants/#:~:text=WHAT%20YOU%20NEED%20TO%20KNOW,more%20felony%20charges%20against%20suspects.
Re: Re: Re:7
They don’t prosecute misdemeanor shoplifting in California because as so often pointed out the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
Well holy shit. It hasn’t stopped them from prosecuting low-level drug offenses, but here we fucking are. (Psst…cops aren’t responsible for managing the prison population either, jackhole.)
And once again, for you, since you STILL don’t get it – cops don’t make that fucking determination. A fine is still punishment, as is a misdemeanor, which is especially important if the suspect commits future crimes.
Get it??? Do what works, don’t do what doesn’t work! What a fucking concept. Blew your mind, didn’t it!
Oh yeah, you sure showed me! Maybe if they actually arrested shoplifters, it wouldn’t be such a problem. After all, the phrase ‘you can beat the charge, but you’re still taking the ride’ must have a purpose aside from some asshole cop arresting someone just to be cruel.
I know you don’t give a shit, but this is California’s approach. We will have to wait and see if it works.
If you knew I didn’t give a shit, you wouldn’t have bothered posting a link.
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Re: Re: Re:6
BTW I live in California and I voted against Prop (47) which was labeled Safe Neighborhoods and Schools act. Like Biden’s Anti-Inflation bill, it had nothing to do with it’s label.
Re: Re: Re:7
BTW I live in California and I voted against Prop (47) which was labeled Safe Neighborhoods and Schools act.
They don’t prosecute misdemeanor shoplifting in California because as so often pointed out the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
So then let’s make the prison terms longer by repealing Prop 47, or shorter because of high incarceration rates (or the desire not to have to pay to feed/house them), create more felons, pre-Prop 47, or not, because again, that would lower the bar in terms of what will get someone incarcerated, and don’t bother prosecuting shoplifting because there’s no point, but it’s a big problem you want stopped.
Do you even bother figuring out what your position is, or is it that even when the cops aren’t doing their jobs, it’s someone else’s fault?
Re: Re: Re:8
To davec? Yes, cops are never in the wrong, and when they are, that’s just one bad apple that never spoils the bunch no matter how long it stays in the barrel.
Re: Re: Re:2
It was a dumb assertion anyways. There’s a reason “defund the police” became a thing — and it’s not because law enforcement is under-manned or under-resourced.
Re: Re: Re:
“The cops in some cities are so understaffed that they can only address violent crime”
And in some cities the law enforcement is so inept and incompetent they are unable to stop the murder of school children, they would rather simply stand about listening to the screams and gun fire.
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One of the root causes is being raised in a crime ridden environment. When children see it all around them, they will accept it as the norm, and it is a small step from observation to participation.
Re:
Adding more cops to that environment won’t make it less crime-ridden—it’ll just make the crime less visible. Reducing crime for good involves addressing the root cause of crime, which is most often poverty (and the desperation it causes). Is a cop beating a robbery suspect making anyone any better off? Is jailing someone who shoplifted a loaf of bread because they couldn’t afford to buy it improving anyone’s lives?
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Re: Re:
Again, it’s less about cops and more about prosecutors, but YES, incarcerating people who are causing crime does indeed reduce the crime rate.
Statistically the single greatest indicator of crime among the children is growing up in a single-parent (i.e. fatherless) home. That has a correlation with poverty and a bunch of other things of course but is also really easy to pull out statistically. It’s by FAR the largest factor.
A huge driver of single parent homes is post war “great society” welfare programs actively disincentivizing marriage.
Basically your solution is the cause.
Re: Re: Re:
Reducing poverty increases crime, got it. Now tell us another fairytale.
Re: Re: Re:
That’s a really weird argument to make, when the USA has one of the highest (many years the absolute highest) incarceration rate in the world.
This observation holds true even when one restricts the comparison to countries with similar percentages of immigrants, countries with a zero tolerance policy for illegal drugs, etc.
In fact, high incarceration rates arguably bring crime rates up (as the saying goes “Prison is mostly an expensive way to make bad men worse.”)
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Re: Re: Re:2
That’s why the death penalty should be much more widely employed. Apply it to property crime even. And don’t allow those convicted to appeal. Just straight up against a wall.
Re: Re: Re:3
Oddly enough that also, for rather trivially obvious reasons, would be expected to raise the violent crime rate.
With that as a “heads-up” hint, can you figure out why?
.
.
Honestly, I see far too much of this sort of “thinking.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the failure (from either inability or unwillingness) to consider second-order effects, is one of the defining characteristics of the modern-day, so-called “conservative” mind-set.
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Re: Re: Re:4
I’m sorry, you don’t get to be Socratic about made up assumptions.
Like literally, you’re just making shit up, and then trying to sound smart about it. Don’t do that.
Re: Re: Re:5
If irony was a currency, you’d be Scrooge McDuck.
Re: Re: Re:3
Sincere question: Does being a professional contrarian and a conflict peddler exhaust you?
Re: Re: Re:3
The death penalty also doesn’t tend to reduce crime. It does trivially reduce recidivism, but you ignore the fact that both incarceration and the death penalty would affect spouses and children in such a way as to increase their likelihood to commit crimes.
Re: Re: Re:4
The death penalty would also save billions in tax dollars when used for, death inducing crimes. Mind telling me how the general public is benefiting from spending tax money on life sentences.
Re: Re: Re:5
“The death penalty would also save billions in tax dollars”
What a fucking idiot.
Your verbal diarrhea is really stinkin the place up, go do you business elsewhere.
Re: Re: Re:6
Multiple that by the number of life+ currently incarcerated. Times the number of years they have. That’s easy math.
Re: Re: Re:7
So .. ?
You had a point to make?
Many of those who you want to murder are innocent of the crime(s) they are incarcerated for. You are either ignorant of this or do not care, probably both.
Extrapolating into the future of your plan to save money by murdering people .. in order to save even more money we could put everyone in prison awaiting execution, wow just think of all the money we would be saving.
also .. no one wants to work anymore (cause they’re all dead) but we sure are saving money
Re: Re: Re:8
Less than 1% of life+ inmates have their convictions overturned.
Re: Re: Re:9
“Less than 1% of life+ inmates have their convictions overturned”
Awesome, we will really be saving money then huh.
Re: Re: Re:9
If a person convicted of a crime they didn’t commit spends years in prison before they’re exonerated, the legal system can’t give them back the time, but it can give that person their freedom back. (And maybe a cash settlement from the government.) If that same person is executed before they’re exonerated, there is no remedy for that person after they’re exonerated—after all, nothing can bring dead people back to life.
The death penalty is not an effective deterrent in part because it encourages anyone facing the death penalty to commit more crimes as “freebies”. (“They can only execute me once!”) It is has a real risk of leading to the death of an innocent person. To support the death penalty is to support revenge for its own sake—to support the kind of “eye for an eye” mentality that only ever drowns the world in blood.
Re: Re: Re:9
Re: Re: Re:7
You failed to account for the amount spent on death row inmates. People often spend more time trying to overturn a death sentence, and the legal processes give them more opportunities to do so. There’s also having to pay for the execution and the other extra stuff involved.
Oh, and you failed to account for potential differences in the average life+ inmate vs average death row inmate vs average inmate generally. And the amount of time that passes between sentencing someone to death and execution.
Basically, there are a lot of other factors you ignored that could completely change the outcome.
Re: Re: Re:8
There was a time, a more proper and civil time, when you had your trial. You had your appeal. Then your sentence was carried out.
We gave up the rather quick and more humane firing squad and hanging for torture, by electric and by chemical
A dreadfully slow legal system and way too many chances for delays, combined with piss poor execution methods don’t change the reality that it costs considerably less to execute murders than to house them for their entire life.
Re: Re: Re:9
Ah, yes, humane firing squad. Because what could be more humane and quick than a hail of bullets while you bleed out from perforation? Damn, you 2nd Amendment fans have some incredible priorities.
Re: Re: Re:10
Ag, you’re ignorant. No fault of your own, real historical facts are no longer part of basic education.
A firing squad involve the use of 4-7 (or 8,10,12 in occasion) trained sharpshooters
Be man fired a live round and the others fired blanks
There is no movie style hail of bullets.
In some cases, you can still demand your execution method to be by firing squad in this country. Just a bit of knowledge for you.
Re: Re: Re:11
No need to share your sexual fantasies with the rest of the class, Lodos.
Re: Re: Re:12
You have some issues buddy. Seek hello, please.
Re: Re: Re:5
Mind telling me how the general public is benefiting from spending tax money on life sentences.
That’s a pro-life stance, is it not?
Re: Re: Re:6
I’m not following. You trying to make some point despite my public support for women’s choice.
Re: Re: Re:7
You trying to make some point despite my public support for women’s choice.
Yep. The point is you fucking people are hypocritical self-righteous assholes who focus on everything except what you want done. Did that help?
Re: Re: Re:5
They factually spend more per person on dealing with death row inmates than they do on people with life sentences, so you’re just wrong.
At any rate, weren’t we talking about crime rates? You’re moving the goalposts.
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Re: Re: Re:2
Is it? How? It’s not like the US has the highest crime rate in the world, far from it.
Like, I TOTALLY think we over-incarcerate, almost all over none-violent drug crimes, but that has NOTHING to do with the fact that incarcerating violent offenders reduces crime. Really most violence is caused by a VERY small % of the population, removing them just takes it out of society. Some of them age out of it and can be reintroduced as peaceable middle aged persons (men, it’s like 95% teenaged males to like 25) and some are just better kept off the streets forever.
Don’t come at me with your “weird argument to make” bullshit, this has been studied and documented to hell and back. Yeah, sure, we put a lot of people in jail (over drugs) for little reason. Removing violent people still reduces violence.
Except it doesn’t, “arguably” or otherwise, again this is well studied. You’re mentioning a counter effect but it doesn’t change the stats.
What hurts me is you think you were arguing on facts but were just arguing on feelings on unrelated stats.
Re: Re: Re:3
When Bratty Matty says “well studied”, it is him making shit up – why else would he leave out citations to those studies…
Re: Re: Re:4
With matthew’s complete inabiloty to comprehend how the English language works, being able to cite his meth-induced hallucinations in APA format is millenia beyond his abilities.
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Re: Re:
Making crime less visible to children and young people is definitely a worthwhile goal.
If people are robbing and shoplifting in a pair of Air Jordans, they can’t claim poverty.
If they are not jailing people for stealing 949 dollars’ worth of merchandise, then they are not jailing anyone for shoplifting a loaf of bread.
Re: Re: Re:
If they are not jailing people for stealing 949 dollars’ worth of merchandise, then they are not jailing anyone for shoplifting a loaf of bread.
Well, if the cops can’t be bothered to arrest them, based on a DA potentially throwing the case out, that’s the cops not doing their jobs.
And how much are you willing to spend feeding/housing these people for stealing $949 worth of goods? Wanna know the cost of the buildings, food, and CO’s to watch these people over $949? You’d be the first to lose your shit over the taxes.
NY state tried this kind of nonsense. Just look up ‘Rockefller Drug Laws and the impact on NYS residents wallets’ – perhaps we’re paying CO’s too much?
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Re: Re: Re:2
The DAs are flat out telling the cops they are not going to prosecute! “You are wasting your time and ours.”
If it was few hundred people stealing a few hundred dollars once or twice a year it would have little impact but it is thousands of people stealing hundreds everyday.
Retail Crime Accounted for Over $112 Billion in Industry Losses in 2022, According to NRF Report. WASHINGTON – As incidents of retail crime continue to escalate throughout the country, retailers have seen a dramatic jump in financial losses associated with theft.
Re: Re: Re:3
The DAs are flat out telling the cops they are not going to prosecute! “You are wasting your time and ours.”
Your excuses are getting more and more desperate.
Do the police report to the DA’s now?
Same police who have argued that they’re ignorant of the law now making decisions on said laws?
You can’t have it both ways. Either they’re too fucking stupid to know the application of the law, as their unions have argued when it comes to QI, or they’re entirely cognizant about making that decision, and ‘knew what they were doing’ when they get called out on being fuckups.
Get someone to help make your mind up for you.
If it was few hundred people stealing a few hundred dollars once or twice a year it would have little impact but it is thousands of people stealing hundreds everyday.
How would you know if the police aren’t making arrests or filing reports because the DA said ‘don’t bother’? Pulling numbers out of your ass based on paperwork that deliberately doesn’t exist?
As incidents of retail crime continue to escalate throughout the country, retailers have seen a dramatic jump in financial losses associated with theft.
Tell the cops to start giving a shit, then. And while they’re at it, clue them in that knowing the law when it comes to not arresting is also an admission of knowledge when it pertains to arresting someone. They might want to tread lightly, since it makes them look more corrupt, not less.
Re: Re: Re:3
Of course the police aren’t going to stop shoplifters, they’ve already proved in Uvalde that they aren’t going to stop a school shooter while outnumbering him 50 to 1.
Re: Re: Re:4
Why must anti-police anti-law (one and the same) idiots always compare totally unrelated situations and the tare one-off issues?
Never mind: it’s because they can’t find any shred of data that supports their claims.
Re: Re: Re:5
You’re the one who keeps insisting that we put our unquestioning faith in the police to arrest people. Do you honestly think that a bunch of cops armed to the teeth who shudder in fear of a lone school shooter is going to be capable of handling the crime you expect them to tackle?
Would you trust someone who never washes their hands to handle your food at a restaurant? Oh shit, but it’s all unrelated and a one-off, it’s absolutely fucking fine isn’t it?
Re: Re: Re:6
You said it yourself, one-off. Ants law enforcement tends to find and focus on the most rare to justify abolishment.
Know what happens, in any country, when the same criminals keep coming back? They wind up dead.
That’s not the right decision either!
It’s best to have real oversight. Not lawlessness.
Re: Re: Re:7
Because that’s the standard you set. You think that criticism based on one-off incidences shouldn’t be allowed. You believe that consequences shouldn’t exist based on one-off incidences.
Would you trust a hospital to operate on you when their surgical team wets their pants at the sight of blood?
Would you call a fire department to put out a blaze when all of them suffer from pyrophobia?
But holy shit you will bend over backwards to carry the water of the Uvalde cops and call anyone who disagrees with them “anti-law”.
Re: Re: Re:8
What the literal hell are you talking about??!!??I never said anything about them. (I’m assuming that’s the cops that responded to the school shooting by not going in, it’s not important enough for me to look up).
I didn’t set any standard. I routinely call for legal consequences for the rare cases of police misconduct.
The 0.001% of police that give law enforcement a bad rap in this country.
Re: Re: Re:9
Only to backpedal as soon as it looks like inconveniencing for the systems already in place.
We already know how far you’re willing to go just to make sure a school’s operations don’t get disrupted because a bully calls the police on their victim. If you’re going to do that for a single school for fear it disrupts things for several classrooms of children, no one will believe you seriously want any kind of police reform. It would be, in your words, too disruptive to allow.
Re: Re: Re:10
I don’t. There’s no need for reform. What we need is courts to uphold the law. (I blame individuals for the actions they make. I don’t pass the blame off to to others).
Qualified immunity should be qualified. It was designed to protect police and other emergency responders from rare errors, that are often the fault of someone else (such as failure to yield resulting in a crash) or mishaps of physics (such as bullets travelling through a suspect).
We don’t need police reform. The system works 99.99% of the time. We need judicial reform. So the rare 00.01% is held accountable.
Re: Re: Re:5
No, they aren’t. Many people who are anti-police feel that way because the police aren’t held accountable for violating the law. That’s a pro-law position.
Re: Re: Re:6
Maybe. I did say qualified immunity has been abused and needs to be fixed.
But refusing to prosecute crimes is a much bigger problem. One need only look at California and Illinois to see what happens when you stop enforcing laws.
Re: Re: Re:7
It’s almost like the judicial system gets annoyed when the cops keep crying wolf and acting like a bunch of whiny brats.
The cops are learning what happens when they cry wolf one too many times, just like in the cautionary tale.
Re: Re: Re:8
I’ll hold you to that when you get car jacked.
The only wolf is the fucker that grabs designer purses, liquor, cigarettes, pot, printer cartridges, TVs.
With no concern under a thousand bucks.
Re: Re: Re:9
lol, bring it pussy. I’ll see you that claim and raise you an “I’ll hold you to that when you show up Jan 6th 2024.”
Or do you need daddy davec to hold your hand?
Re:
I agree, which is why your claims that your son hasn’t committed a single act of police brutality simply does not hold water. He’s raised in an environment that justifies escalation, surrounded by thugs reminiscing about their college football jock days, and raised by a father who openly thinks that everyone else who isn’t his son is scum and a ticking time bomb of $950 shoplifting.
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The single most important doctrine of woke ideology is that you must always ignore reality and see only what the ideology tells you. Are stores locking up their goods and requiring shoppers to ask an employee to get them? You must not notice that. “Misgendering is genocide”, but you must ignore Palestinians raping, kidnapping, and literally murdering babies. “Black Lives Matter” as long as it’s police taking them, but you must not see the thousands of Black people murdered by other Black people. “Systemic racism” explains everything, but you must not see James Baldwin’s antisemitic screed that he wrote back in 1967.
Wokeness is poison. Wokeness is death.
Re:
ok right winger
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Re: Re:
You realize that’s not actually an insult, right?
Re: Re: Re:
you do know you enjoy revenge porn right?
Re: Re: Re:
Right winger
Definition:
A nazi
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Re: Re: Re:2
Seeing the posters of kidnapped Israelis being ripped down, the BLM posters celebrating the paragliders, and the craven bothsiderism of academic institutions makes the depravity of the woke filth, those would lecture us about “microaggressions”, utterly clear. That woke filth who would screech “Nazi!” at people who know and say that men can never be women have no trouble spitting on piles of Jewish corpses and celebrating the murderers for their “decolonization”.
Wokeness is poison. Wokeness is death.
Re: Re: Re:3
buddy are you stupid your using a right winger term
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Re: Re: Re:4
What he said. You know who calls people they don’t like “nazi” these days?
*Putin
*Hamas supporters
*Basically the entire far-left.
Like, seriously, we’ve really had it be common to call Jews “nazis” these days, it’s almost funny…..but not.
I think the truth of it has been laid bare.
Re: Re: Re:5
…hallucinated nobody mentally competent, ever.
Re: Re: Re:
It is among humans.
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Re: Re: Re:2
So you’re gonna say the vast majority of people aren’t “Humans”, then? Cuz seriously about half of people are “right wing” and a considerable portion of the other half think it’s wrong to demonize someone just for disagreeing.
…do you realize how nutty you sound? Of course you don’t. And the irony of all this I’ve definitely been lectured by a lefty recently on “dehumanizing” people….
Re: Re: Re:3
Isn’t happening outside of the deranged hallucinations you project.
Re: Re: Re:3
Ironically projective self-unawareness, instantiated.
Re:
The post is about the literal opposite of that but whatever.
Well it seems to have poisoned your brain to death. You see complex issues in very basic terms and think you have all the answers.
Re:
Woke
/Wōk/ informal – US
(adj.) A state of awareness achieved by intellectually sensitive individuals who have empathy for the plight of others, especially those suffering injustice and oppression.
Synonyms: empathic, astute, perceptive, thoughtful, insightful, discerning
Antonyms: ignorant, simple, unreasonable, illogical, apathetic, indifferent
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Re: Re:
Six degrees of Kevin Bacon links any actor to Kevin Bacon.
Woke does the same thing with racism.
Google whatever and ask if it’s racist. You’ll find some “Woke” person made the link.
Are cars racist
Are trees racist
Is the sun racist
Is the Ocean racist
Is God racist
Let me know if you can find anything that’s not racist.
Re: Re: Re:
I didn’t know the New York Times and Reuters were so liberal you think they’re racist.
Oh, and a fun article…
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-ban-russians-bringing-cars-some-goods-into-eu-is-racist-2023-09-11/ (Paywalled)
Russia is woke too, I guess.
And a good chunk of the articles are about the flaws of self-driving cars, which has been convered here on this site, as well as why. (The cameras were never trained on darker faces, which does indicate a massive oversight rather than any sort of overt racism)
If anything, there are a few crackpot entries, but very few compared to the entires for “auto loans are racially biased”, for example…
Re: Re: Re:
Did you read that definition? Because it doesn’t help your case at all.
Oh, and that “six degrees” thing is true of virtually any two people or concepts, so it doesn’t prove any link between the two whatsoever.
And if you can’t distinguish between being racist and calling out others for being racist, I don’t know what to tell you.
As for the list, first off, most of those are clickbait headlines, not serious claims by “woke” people. (The God one has to do with interpreting scripture, and is complicated.)
The cars one is interesting, though. It’s about the fact that many cameras that were used for self-driving cars were never trained to recognize dark-skinned faces, leading to apparently racist results from the programs where they failed to recognize dark-skinned people as people to begin with, among other things. This has long been a problem with facial-recognition technology, and few people—even “woke” people—consider this to be overt racism; it’s more of a careless oversight by whoever was providing the program with a sample set to learn from. This is all well-documented. Nothing to do with being “woke”; it’s just about how tech people often overlook things, leading to problems with the end product. This one just happened to have a racial factor, though again, the term “racist” used there is more to attract more clicks than a serious accusation of bigotry.
Re: Re: Re:2
Were you able to Google anything that hadn’t been determined as racist?
That is absolutely right! Yet people can and do link everything to racism whether it is connected or not.
Did you know that air is racist? Trees, apples, God, etc.
Re: Re: Re:3
Aw, the widdle angwy white guy couldn’t find any asians or black people to shoot
Re:
I’ve got ‘woke’ and ‘soros’ so far.
How’s everyone else doing with their ‘how-can-you immediately-determine-if-some-asshole’s-a-right-wing-nut-job?’ bingo card?
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Yes. It’s literally proven.
There are probably smart ways to reduce inner city poverty without destroying the nuclear family but man, we ain’t doing ANY of those. Just siblings with multiple different fathers and none of them in the home, far as the eye can see.
Re:
shut the fuck up revenge porn enjoyer
Re:
Yeah I wonder why…
It couldn’t be all the same states that lost slaves finding an excuse to keep those same people in jail where they can get the same free labor, paid for by tax payers…
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Re: Re:
Seattle, Washington, lost slaves? Chicago?
Pretty sure by far the worst examples of inmate labor I’ve heard of is California, which was never a slave state.
I mean if anything this effect is weaker in the South (but it still exists) where there are Black churches and Blacks generally have strong social networks. (close to the same thing)
Do you realize how dumb you sound?
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By whom?
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Reducing poverty increases crime, got it. Now tell us another fairytale.
Yes. It’s literally proven.
So, we need more poverty to control the crime rate?
Your ability to exceed expectations as to ‘how stupid can one person be?’ is astounding.
Great job – you’re a model dipshit, that all dipshits should aspire to be.
Re: Re:
Hypothesis: Matty B is actually an early version of ChatGPT or similar experimental LLM “AI”…
… this would explain why it demonstrates adequate skill in stringing words together into grammatically correct sentences, yet nonetheless is clearly not yet able to accurately assess factual or logical consistency.
Thank god YOU don’t do this with things like copyright.
Seen an increase in the media stories about how the crime rate has been increasing lately?
Must be an election coming up.
Rinse, repeat.
Sick of the bullshit? So are many others. Hope everyone eligible is allowed to vote and the vote is counted.
If everyone eligible were allowed to vote and all votes were counted with no gerrymandering, the republicans would not win
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Not stopping Biden from being reelected is elder abuse.
Re: Re:
The same could be said of Donald “I stared directly at a solar eclipse” Trump, who is only a handful of years younger than Biden—and of the two, the one with the more obvious decline in mental faculties is Trump, if you compare interviews from his past with the interviews and speeches he gives now.
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“Not stopping Biden from being reelected is elder abuse.”
Isn’t that special!
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I’d worry more about a candidate who brags about passing a fucking MOCA test, like it’s some kind of ‘major award.’
Especially considering the reason that test is usually taken is because of dementia-like symptoms.
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Typical
This is basic oversimplified nonsense from a man who hates laws in general.
National statistics may be down, but then it totally ignores local statistics. When cities like New York and Chicago are showing exponential rises in crimes, including grand theft and murder.
Using the national average alone is disingenuous, if not outright “fake news” fraud.
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“Using the national average alone is disingenuous, if not outright “fake news” fraud.”
Interesting .. Math is now considered to be fraud by right wing zealots. Even with clearly written details explaining origin of the data being analyzed, it is still fraud because it does not support the crazy bullshit being spewed.
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Using a nationwide picture to ignore local areas showing massive increases in crime is dishonest. Pretending we don’t have a large crime problem because 90% of the police departments cover 10% of the population?
This is why progressives piss me off so much. 90% of the population lives in urban and suburban areas. Taking up less than 10% of our land area. They like to ignore that 90# of the country until they help their disingenuous political rhetoric. Crime is a non-issue in 90% of the country.
Crime happens in cities. Now cities have exported their criminals to the suburban areas around them. Cook County’s current crime rate total has surpassed all of 2000-2010 combined.
Creek bend nowhere doesn’t need more police. The cities do.
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When people fled big cities for the smaller suburbs, do you think crime didn’t follow the people who moved until decades later or some shit? Because news flash, you Trumpist dipshit: CRIME HAPPENS EVERYWHERE.
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Re: Re: Re:2
News flash? No, it didn’t.
Crime rates in cities, into a few years ago, were exponentially higher than surrounding areas. That has changed since a bad cop contributed directly, but not solely, to the death of a career criminal in Minnesota. Police forces have been gutted, bail is not required, and criminals are given catch and release status many fish would love.
Here’s a stat for you, 94% of this year’s violent crime arrests in our town were committed by non-residents. The majority were residents of, wow, Chicago.
Rural crime is almost non-existent. Percentage wise. When you stop arresting people, mix the major upswing in localised crime into the national whole, and ignore the reality, you can pretend there is an overall downswing.
The real fact is cities have far more crime today than most of history. Most crimes are no longer even responded to. Many more are never prosecuted (giving false numbers of how much crime is actually happening).
Then pepper those false, fraudulent numbers, by spreading out the crime by area, not by population, and you get the “lower crime” nonsense we have here.
Re: Re: Re:3
Ha.
Ahahaha.
AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh my fucking god you’re really trying to pin a recent rise in crime rates specifically and only on the murder of George Floyd
holy fucking shit I knew you were a Trumpist but now you’re just being a fucking racist
GFY and GTFO
Re: Re: Re:4
Wow, you really jump all over. Following the Floyd protests many departments were forced into changes. Some of those changes are good. Some are bad. But with reduced police forces, reduced response, and reduced prosecution; crime rose.
That has nothing to do with race!
When you set up a constant revolving door of non-punishment you show the criminals it’s perfectly acceptable to commit crimes.
Re: Re: Re:5
But with reduced police forces, reduced response, and reduced prosecution; crime rose.
Talk to the other village idiot davec about that. He advocates not bothering with a response since cops seem to report to the DA now, who’s telling them not to bother.
So start with getting the lazy fucking cops (right, davec?) back to arresting people, and staying in their lanes. Deliberately not doing your job isn’t something so easily blamed on some asshole who suffocated a guy getting stuck in fucking jail, with the rest of the savages.
Re: Re: Re:5
No, crime did not rise. You’re just making stuff up.
Re: Re: Re:6
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/chicago-violent-crime-data-2021/
Re: Re: Re:6
Maybe check your data first
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“90% of the population lives in urban and suburban areas. Taking up less than 10% of our land area. They like to ignore that 90# of the country until they help their disingenuous political rhetoric. Crime is a non-issue in 90% of the country.”
Land does not vote, people do.
“Using a nationwide picture to ignore local areas showing massive increases in crime is dishonest.”
Was it national news discussing national trends? What was the context in which your panties got twisted?
“Crime happens in cities.”
Duh! … (as if country folk never get into trouble lol)
Who commits crimes? People do
Where do most people reside? In cities
Your deductive reasoning is impeccable.
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…said a nobody who has never once in his existence shown capacity for rational thought, ever.
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Not surprised a Republican still thinks “Global warming isn’t real because we had a snownstorm here!” would compelling to non-morons.
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You are intentionally combining the idiots who say global warming isn’t real with those that say it is a natural process, and those that say man has accelerated, slightly, the natural process.
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You mean like the cops who combined the criminal civilians with the non-criminal ones?
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Whoosh!
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I know where I stand, and it is against Prop 47. One of the DA’s that won’t prosecute shoplifters is the author of the bill, George Gascon. The reason it was called the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act was because we were supposed to save all this money by not prosecuting and jailing shoplifting and low-level non-violent drug offenses. That money was supposed to go to the Neighborhoods and Schools—LOL. What we ended up with was billions lost in retail theft and an army of homeless drug addicted zombies. Instead of admitting it was a mistake, the State now intends to save us by spending an additional $267,118,293 to fix the problem it created.
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The reason it was called the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act was because we were supposed to save all this money by not prosecuting and jailing shoplifting and low-level non-violent drug offenses.
And that means “do not arrest them?” Again, how do they get to repeat offender status that warrants incarceration without arresting them? Seems like you’re more concerned with the name of the bill, for some reason. It’s an insignificant detail that’s irrelevant to what the cops are supposed to be doing.
Perhaps the cops should stay in their fucking lane and arrest them, as their job dictates. It still is irrelevant what the DA does from there. But that’s inconvenient and does nothing to advance your bullshit.
What we ended up with was billions lost in retail theft and an army of homeless drug addicted zombies.
So get them into homes and treatment, dumbass. If you’re fine with cops not doing anything then quit bitching about it. Keep on advocating for the dumbest fucking people on the planet (cops) to sit on their hands, because they’re somehow well-versed in the law, that they can decide to ignore crime.
Instead of admitting it was a mistake, the State now intends to save us by spending an additional $267,118,293 to fix the problem it created.
Yeah, I’m sure there wasn’t a drug and poverty problem before that. Enjoy your tax hike to pay for it, though. Just add some more cops to not arrest people for shoplifting…that’ll fix it.
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…said a nobody who has never once in his existence shown capacity for rational thought, ever.
“Law enforcement agencies like to portray criminal activity as constantly rising, especially now that they’re facing additional scrutiny and the occasional so-called ‘defunding’ effort.”
Given the multitude of ways in which cops abuse their powers, I would have thought that defunding is actually more likely to lead to a reduction in crime.
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If you think we are better off with Biden, you’re nuts. It would be shockingly refreshing if American politicians considered Americans at all, that alone first. Instead, we have politicians selling influence and policies that benefit and enrich foreign companies and receiving kickbacks from those companies.
We are supporting two wars that combined have had fewer casualties than the 110,000 Americans that died last year of drug overdose. We won’t secure our border but Heaven help anyone crossing Ukraine’s or Israel’s border—we are all over that. I wonder how much kickback is involved in those decisions.
Biden vs Trump—That is our unfortunate choice.
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It is a single issue this time, for most people.
Vote fascist or not.
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If you think we are better off with Biden, you’re nuts.
Yeah, I’d much rather have a moron with a 40-word vocabulary and his bimbo wife embarrass the United States for another 4 years. He’s an idiot. Not to notice that makes you a bigger idiot, so congratulations on advancing to the next level of stupidity.
Supporting someone charged with 91 felonies so far and his businesses dissolved because of fraud isn’t a good look for someone as cop friendly as you. Wouldn’t those cops be offended for you siding with a criminal?
Or is $250 million in fraud not significant enough for you? What about if he shoplifted some baby formula? Would that change your mind?
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110,000 Americans died of drug overdose last year with most of the drugs coming through our southern border. That is far more people than those tanks and rockets have killed in Israel and Ukraine combined.
I’m not saying don’t help them, I’m saying handle OUR border first!
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That is far more people than those tanks and rockets have killed in Israel and Ukraine combined.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/troop-deaths-injures-ukraine-war-nearing-500000-nyt-citing-us-officials-2023-08-18/
500,000 > 110,000, and that’s just Ukraine so far.
Try again, and next time see if you can apply simple math concepts like ‘greater than’ and ‘less than.’
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Re: Re: Re:2
From your article
Those numbers are after a year and a half of fighting and since we are helping to kill Russians, I didn’t include them in the death tally. The 500,000 number included wounded.
In 2021 America lost 106,699 and in 2022 we lost an additional 109,680 to drug overdose DEATHS! Americans are dying at a rate of 1.5 times that of the Ukrainians.
Please explain to me why those American deaths are less important than the Ukrainian deaths. Tell me why their border is more important than ours.
Re: Re: Re:3
Americans are dying at a rate of 1.5 times that of the Ukrainians.
That’s the price of ‘freedom.’ It’s similar to when you have nutcases able to buy assault rifles and kill 18 people because some redneck fucktard who lives in the middle of nowhere in a trailer that doesn’t have a flush toilet thinks he needs one to fend off the criminal element that’s out to steal his garbage.
Please explain to me why those American deaths are less important than the Ukrainian deaths.
You tell me, since Biden’s so inept.
Let’s pretend the likely republican nominee didn’t talk about ‘cleaning those people off the streets.’ Did you notice he never talks about ‘what’s next?’ I did. So let’s not pretend that the cult of republicans and their orange titnted simpleton-god all of a sudden have compassion.
Because that pathetic shit is obvious, and no one’s fucking buying it.
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Re: Re: Re:4
20138 people died from gun violence last year, but Tim says violent crime is down? 601 mass shootings so far in 2023 and Tim says violent crime is down?
As horrible as those numbers are, they represent less than 1/5 of those who have died in the past year from drug overdose and Biden won’t control the border.
Re: Re: Re:5
Controlling the border does not deal with the causes of drug use, and turning the US into a prison camp to protect the citizens will only increase drug use by making life worse for the citizens.
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Re: Re: Re:6
And taking guns from law abiding gun owners won’t reduce gun violence, it will only leave them defenseless against criminals.
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It probably would, though. Anyone who brings a gun into their home automatically increases the possibility of gun violence happening in their home—whether that means attempts to die by suicide, accidental discharges (especially by curious children), or domestic violence that escalates to gun use. Guns are tools with one specific purpose: to put gaping holes in living beings so those beings will stop living. To pretend otherwise is to delude yourself.
How many times has the fabled “good guy with a gun” (that wasn’t a cop) actually stopped a mass shooter that was using an AR-15 to shoot people by the dozens?
I’m not oblivious to the idea that people buy guns as a security measure. I’m fine with that, actually. But when the average gun owner has a handgun and a mass shooter has at least one gun that was designed to kill dozens of people on a war-torn battlefield, chances are that some dude who always dreamed of stopping a mass shooter is going to end up dead before he can even unholster his weapon.
Mental health, poverty, whatever other excuse you have—those are the symptoms. The easy availability of guns in the United States (especially guns like AR-15s) are the problem. You can treat all the symptoms, but you’ll never solve the problem until you’re ready to admit that treating gun ownership as a human right and life-saving healthcare as a costly privilege instead of the other way around is the actual problem.
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Re: Re: Re:8
Thailand has a far higher ownership rate than we do. And has far less gun crime.
98.9% of gun crime also occurs with handguns,
Not a rifle.
You are wrong on both counts
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Re: Re: Re:8
I wish you were concerned about Americans dying.
If you were, you’d be 5 times more concerned about drug overdose deaths than gun violence. You would be 5 times more concerned about a secure southern border than about confiscating guns. You would be 190 times more concerned about policies that enable drug addiction than policies involving assault rifles.
Re: Re: Re:9
If he was concerned about Americans dying he’d be pushing hand gun bans, not rifles.
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You really do get your old man diapers soiled at the thought of your son not being able to lovingly caress a military surplus toy, don’t you davec?
Hey, maybe if your son’s compliant enough, you can ask him to play George Floyd while you exercise your Derek Chauvin fantasy. You’ve already got the “bruh why is everyone angry at me” part down pat…
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And in the time that you had the guy whose election promise was not only handling our border, and promising to get Mexico to pay for it, what did he do? Fuck around for four years trying to cosplay as a president, then when people tried to hold him accountable to his election promises, he and his team of useful idiots like you laughed and insisted “IT WAS JUST A PRANK, BRO!”
Your team isn’t concerned about securing our border. Not since Day One. Which is just as well, because if you gave two shits about actually securing the border you’d run out of people to shoot.
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Biden suffers from dementia. You know it, I know it and the whole world knows it. It is one the motivating factors for the current wars.
I’m supporting Trump because he has been charged with 91 felonies. If the democrats are successful in unleashing judicial cronies to influence elections, then they will do it again and again. We are already a “Banana Republic.”
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Biden suffers from dementia.
And yet you never see him bragging about passing his MOCA test. That’s only a big deal to those who have it.
I’m supporting Trump because he has been charged with 91 felonies.
Well, don’t forget about all the other stooges he took down that are sitting in jail right now for buying his bullshit.
Mike Lindell lost his shitty pillow company.
Rudy went from ‘America’s Mayor’ to ‘disbarred drunk who can’t pay his bills.
His 3rd wife renegotiated her prenup. I’m sure that’s a good sign.
And so far, three of his lawyers have to write an apology letter to the people of Georgia. That’ll sure look good on a resume.
If the democrats are successful in unleashing judicial cronies to influence elections, then they will do it again and again.
I sure hope so. Then women won’t have to ask a man what to do with her own body. I only pray we have another pandemic and more of you idiots decide the vaccine’s some plot and die for nothing. Just one ask – next time, stick to your fucking principles and drop fucking dead. Don’t clog up the hospitals like you did the last time.
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Re: Re: Re:2
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime”— Lavrentiy Beria
That’s how dictatorships and Banana republics operate.
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Of the 19 defendants in the Georgia case against Trump and his cronies, the 4 defendants who pleaded guilty are all avoiding jail presumably because they are now cooperating witnesses in the state’s case against the remaining 15 defendants. The smaller fish are getting good deals—better deals than they deserve, really—to provide evidence and testimony that will help the state prosecute someone larger in the food chain. That doesn’t sound like a dictatorship to me. That sounds like the legal system working as intended.
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It’s my understanding that those 4 don’t have to do anything but apologize. The democrats don’t want them, they want Trump. This is a political prosecution meant to influence the 2024 election. Something only seen in the most corrupt dictatorships. If the democrats succeed in using their judicial cronies to taint and incarcerate their political opponents, they’ll do it again and again and elections will be meaningless.
Unfortunately for the democrats 70% of Americans see it for what it is and it pisses them off. I’ll be voting and it won’t be for a democrat.
If you like that one, you probably like this one as well.
(195) Putin critic Alexei Navalny jailed for 19 years by Russian court – BBC News – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQUGx0JBE9E
Re: Re: Re:5
This is a political prosecution meant to influence the 2024 election.
Everything’s a Democrat plot isn’t it?
Tell me why anyone should vote republican, because even when you win, let’s say Senate/House & Executive, you do nothing except investigate things and come up with nothing.
Was Mexico not paying for your fucking wall Democrats’ fault? Tell me how much money did the House/Senate allocate for it?
What about Trumpcare? I thought there was supposed to be a plan in 2 weeks.
Same question about Infrastructure week.
And for fucking fucks’ sake, how could he not lock Hillary up? He had his toads in the Justice Department…and I particularly liked all you simpleton chimps chanting ‘lock her up’ at his little redneck get-togethers. How safe do you feel with her still running loose?
Not to mention all of his own simps that were killed during Covid because he undermined his own vaccine project. Now that was fucking epic. He didn’t just shoot himself in the foot, he took his entire empty head off.
Convince me why I should vote republican since you’re clearly impotent against the Democrats, and unable to stop their deep state shit, despite all your bluster.
What exactly do you think is going to happen next time, limp dick? All those investigations that were supposed to blow the roof off the ‘Biden Crime Family’ ended up with no-show witnesses, or ‘witnesses who didn’t say what you thought they said.’
Get real. You do-nothings aren’t going to stop doing nothing anytime soon.
Re: Re: Re:6
Wtaf are you talking about. He championed the fastest production of a vaccine in history.
Re: Re: Re:7
He also spent the better part of 2020 undermining every precaution and measure that could’ve helped mitigate the spread of COVID-19. He implied that injections of bleach into human bodies could kill the COVID-19 virus. And he did next-to-nothing to condemn anti-vaxxer propaganda in any meaningful way.
The funny part about the Trump administration helping to get the vaccine to market in under a year is that not only will his detractors typically refrain from giving him credit for that accomplishment, his supporters tend to be so anti-vax that they’ll refuse to give him that credit because doing so would mean admitting the vaccines actually worked. His administration pulled off a minor miracle and he can’t even capitalize on that fact. It’s a nightmare of his own making—and it’s motherfucking hilarious. 🤣
Re: Re: Re:8
The only persons that made such an implication was a far left progressive blogger.
You have an absolute right to not be medically experimented on. It’s a person’s choice to take it or not.
Far from minor. I heard of. Thought impossible.
Oh, and if you look at actual vaccination rates you’ll find the overwhelming majority of the population took it. Dispute the dems declaring they weren’t going to take it.
Re: Re: Re:9
…hallucinated nobody mentally competent, ever.
Re: Re: Re:9
“I’m not a Republican, I’m not a Trump fanboy, but I will curl into a ball and tremble my lip if anyone ever says anything that hurts their fee-fees” – Lostinlodos
Re: Re: Re:10
lol, your funny. Feel better now?
Re: Re: Re:11
Just reckoning you would probably have turned out different if the bully who kicked your ass as a kid had called the cops on you and fucked you up something fierce. Which would have taught you not to defend the practice when it happens to a bullied girl.
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The first 15 years of my life I was bullied. Till one day I had enough and kicked the crap out of the school bully. That involved cops, suspension, and a world of “authority” torment.
I deserved everything I got, post decimation. I don’t regret it. Id do it again. He had it coming.
I also went from looser loner geek to one of the most popular kids in the school. I knocked out the QB and put him in the hospital. After his reign of terror in the school.
That moment changed my life. But I realising retrospect that my reaction was called for, but wrong.
Violence is a last resort. One must make that choice carefully with the knowledge of the consequences.
The problem is less with law enforcement and more on rich people pay their way out of issues, be it cash or clout.
Re: Re: Re:13
LMAO. The thought of reliving the school days where you peaked really gave you a tingle down there didn’t it Lodos? No wonder you advocated so hard for the school to not permit disruption and let the police drag away a bullied girl in handcuffs instead of risking the bully’s parents throwing a tantrum. Goddamn, Lodos, priorities! But that’s classic Republican “rules for thee not for me” for you.
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Re: Re: Re:6
70% of the people see it that way.
Don’t know what you are referring to, not sure you do either. Do you mean the 2 and half years of the Russian Collusion Delusion? That was the Democrats.
Criminalizing your political opponent is a redline that democracies don’t cross, especially when you have to bend or break the law to do it (Georgia). It martyrs your opponent and no one trusts the system after that. Even Jefferson Davis was released from prison after two years without a trial. Now we are no better than Russia.
Putin critic Alexey Navalny sentenced to 19 more years in prison – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZzt8aXy_5Y
Do you think he got a fair trial?
Covid was a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”. How many times has Biden had covid? At least twice. Wasn’t it Cuomo that housed covid patients in nursing homes. Now that was fucking epic. Despite having the Wuhan Institute of Virology at the epicenter of the pandemic, the democrats pretended outraged when Trump suggested it came from there. I wonder how much the Chinese paid in that kickback.
Report-on-Potential-Links-Between-the-Wuhan-Institute-of-Virology-and-the-Origins-of-COVID-19-20230623.pdf (dni.gov)
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Report-on-Potential-Links-Between-the-Wuhan-Institute-of-Virology-and-the-Origins-of-COVID-19-20230623.pdf
You are going to vote the way you want, that’s the way it should be. Republican DAs shouldn’t be trying to jail your candidate nor influence the election by scheduling his court dates to keep him off the campaign trail.
Re: Re: Re:7
You know… never mind all the times that Trump made that the priority of his election promises.
Now you really want to spin it all as “lol he was just joking”?
Re: Re: Re:8
To wit: Trump has explicitly promised multiple times to prosecute his political enemies if he wins the 2024 election. Like, that ain’t the mob boss–style subtext he usually does—those are actual we-have-it-on-the-record statements he said out loud.
Re: Re: Re:9
Biden suggests Trump will ‘not take power’ again if he runs in 2024 | The Hill
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3728174-biden-suggests-trump-will-not-take-power-again-if-he-runs-in-2024/
I know you don’t like to read, so I’ll condense it for you—
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
Sounds like something Putin would do to Navalny.
This was a year ago, before all the indictments and court challenges. So much for “free and fair” elections. If you had an honest bone in your body, you’d admit that these trials are political prosecutions and an abuse of power. You don’t so you won’t.
The democrats started this. They opened up Pandora’s box and shook it. Now are you starting to see how dangerous that was?
Beck said: “Do you regret not locking [Clinton] up? And if you’re president again, will you lock people up?”
Trump said: “The answer is you have no choice, because they’re doing it to us.”
Re: Re: Re:10
Except no, it doesn’t, because Biden didn’t promise to prosecute Trump for the sake of preventing him from running in 2024. In fact, Biden has never once promised that his administration would prosecute Trump, and certainly not on his direct order. And if Biden wanted to put Trump in jail like Putin did to Navalny, Trump would probably already be in jail—I mean, he stands accused of over 90 felonies in four different criminal trials, so it’s not like the courts wouldn’t have an excuse. But Trump remains a free man with no travel restrictions and the same kinds of restrictions on his speech that any other defendant would most likely face. So…yeah, nice try with the “Biden is actually Putin” shit, but like a person flapping their arms really fast, that’s not gonna fly.
If you had an honest bone in your body, you’d admit that the only problem you have with those cases are that they’re going after a Republican.
How, by asking for the legal system to hold people accountable for crimes they’re reasonably accused of (or even recorded) committing?
See, that’s what I’m talking about when I say that Trump has promised to punish his political rivals: He’s not saying that he’s going to lock up people who’ve committed actual crimes, but rather that he’s going to lock up Democrats because people who intend to disrupt and subvert American democracy are being held accountable for their actions. That is the kind of shit that Putin would do, which makes sense, given Trump’s fascist leanings and his disturbing admiration for fascist leaders like Putin.
Every accusation, a confession…
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Re: Re: Re:11
Funny Putin invaded Ukraine to eliminate fascist. He also claims that Navalny wasn’t given a fair trial. Both are lies.
Fascist want one party rule and if the democrats have to hire a million IRS agents to get it, they will.
Democrats say they want free and fair elections. That’s a lie. They know they will lose.
There isn’t even a pretense that Trump will get a fair trial. The only question is how far the democrats will go to get Trump and what will they do if they get him.
That’s not democracy, that’s fascism.
Re: Re: Re:12
He can say that all he wants. Doesn’t make it true.
Careful, son, your Freudian is slipping.
Which party keeps trying to disenfranchise voters in ways that largely affect racial minority demographics that are more likely to vote Democrat? Which party has someone running for said party’s presidential candidate nomination who believes the voting age should be raised to 25, partly because younger voters tend to vote Democrat? Which party’s supporters literally chanted “hang Mike Pence” while they stormed the Capitol in an attempt to disrupt the most important function in American democracy, presumably with the intent to keep that party’s de facto leader in the Oval Office despite his having lost the election?
Ib id.
From everything I’ve seen so far, the courts are bending over backwards to give him special treatment. He is exceptionally lucky that the courts are giving him some semblance of leeway on those gag orders and the punishments for his violations thereof; if he were anyone else, he’d probably be in jail for contempt and attempted witness/jury tampering by now.
Given how much work it apparently took to convince Dem leadership to even bother with both of Trump’s impeachments, the answers seem to be “not as much as you think” and “won’t really matter if Republicans are going to find a way to let him wriggle out of another mess of his own making”.
Fascism is Donald Trump promising to prosecute and persecute his political enemies if he regains power. Fascism is Republicans doing everything they can to outlaw abortion and strip women of their bodily autonomy so they can force women to give birth. Fascism is conservative Christian assholes trying to keep everyone from accessing certain books because said assholes think their taking offense at the existence of those books should mean nobody should be able to read those books.
Donald Trump being credibly accused of (and being tried for) committing crimes to stay in power is not fascism. Well, not unless you think anyone who declares themselves to be a candidate for POTUS should be wholly and unquestionably immune from prosecution.
Re: Re: Re:12
So send your son to the frontline to fight your battles for you then, you complete waste of space of a boomer. Oh but that’s right, you’ve been boasting constantly of how quick you’re yeeting your kid out of the system.
Re: Re: Re:13
First of all, I don’t want there to be frontlines, but you idiots are so intent on taking Trump down, you are willing to end democracy and take the country down as well. You don’t believe there are people who will stop you and I’m telling you there are.
I am a Vietnam era vet so I have put my life on the line and sacrificed for my country.
Since you are an Anonymous Chickenshit, I’m sure that concept never occurred to you.
Re: Re: Re:14
No, you don’t want there to be frontlines near you. You wouldn’t have a problem with frontlines if they were far away from you and involved the military and the police hurting the people you think they should be hurting.
Dude. Donald Trump and the GOP tried to end democracy by subverting the results of a free and fair election (e.g., the “fake electors” plot, the riot at the Capitol). Do you seriously think their efforts should be ignored or even normalized?
I reiterate my statement about your approval of frontlines depending on where they are and who’s going to get hurt by “your side”.
And yet, here you are, arguing that Donald Trump should be immune to prosecution under the laws he (allegedly) violated. You sacrificed for a country whose laws and institutions you now wish to undermine because you worship at the altar of Trumpian fascism.
Not for nothing, but I’m guessing you also have opinions about this country being a “Christian nation” that I’d bet would align you with people like the new Speaker of the House.
Re: Re: Re:15
What about the people you think should be hurt? That’s how wars start.
So outlaw the GOP. Outlaw all opposition. That’s fascism.
In our last Civil war, 620,000 Americans died. People miles from any frontline were hurt by that. Don’t start another one.
This is the only time in our history where the judicial system is being used against a Presidential candidate. That’s fascism.
So have your cronies throw him in jail. I’m sure they will find the appropriate crime.
Re: Re: Re:16
I don’t think anyone should be hurt. (Except for Nazis—but only so far as it stays on the level of punching those fuckers in the face once or twice.) Even the people who rioted on the 6th of January 2021 don’t deserve to have violence inflicted upon them for their actions. What I’d prefer is that those who’ve broken the law be held accountable for their actions—even (and especially) if they’re trying to use a political campaign as an end-run around the criminal legal system.
I mean, if you say so… 🙃
But seriously, while I’d be fine with forcefully disbanding the GOP—considering it’s an organization dedicated to turning the United States into a Christian nationalist autocracy—I’m not the kind of person who thinks the U.S. needs to be a “one-party nation”. You’re thinking of the GOP, whose members tend to believe that they alone have the divine right to rule and any Democrat who wins an election must have cheated and is therefore in office under false pretenses.
If anything, I believe the two-party system is bullshit, and I’d love to see it replaced with a system where political parties are temporary instead of…well, instead of this shit we’ve got now. (Also, nationwide ranked-choice voting would be nice.)
When you say things like that, you’re expressing a “look what you made us do” logic that places the blame for someone’s actions on whoever that someone believes “instigated” those actions. If right-wing gunfuckers start a civil war because they believe leftists/“wokesters”/Jews/take-your-pick led them to have “no other choice”, the war would still be their fault because they decided to pick up their guns and kill their fellow countrymen. It’s no better than, say, blaming a rape victim for her own rape by telling her that she was dressed like a slut.
This is the only time in our history where a presidential candidate attempted to use the power of the presidency while he was in office to subvert the results of a free and fair election. Tell me why he—or anyone else accused of a crime—should get to escape accountability for alleged criminal acts only and specifically by declaring a candidacy for political office.
Three things:
Re: Re: Re:17
Nazis threw their opponents in jail. Hmm, who is doing that now?
If you are talking about Biden, you are absolutely right.
Nov 9,2022 Biden announces his intent to interfere with the 2024 election.
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
The President of the US doesn’t determine who the next President will be, the People do.
Re: Re: Re:18
The underpinning logic of this argument is that we can only throw people in jail if and when the defendant, the prosecutor, and the judge are all of the same political party—because if the defendant is a member of one party and the prosecutor and/or the judge is a member of the other party, the defendant is a “political prisoner”. I refuse to take that seriously.
Also: You can keep tossing out that Biden quote like I’m supposed to fall to my knees and kiss your ass in agreement or run away scared and pissing my pants, but that quote doesn’t scare me or make me agree with you. It doesn’t even really register with me—because nothing about it gives me the vibe of “we’re going to do a bunch of shady shit to keep Trump out of office, just like Trump did some shady shit when he tried to stay in office”. Like your continued attempts to point at that one report and say “this is evidence of Biden committing a crime”, your continued use of this quote is pointless.
And now I’m bored of you. Please go fuck yourself with an inanimate carbon rod at your earliest convenience. Door’s to your left. 👋
Re: Re: Re:18
Correct. And Biden is saying that we the People will have to prevent Trump from becoming President. It’s really that simple.
Re: Re: Re:19
The people will vote.
The president will be chosen.
And I pray the elections go smoothly without falling apart. Given how many illegal changes there were in 2020
Re: Re: Re:20
The amount of copium you’ve been snorting is quite the amount there, Lodos. You might overdose if you’re not careful.
Given how many illegal changes your team brought evidence for, Occam’s razor applies here. Otherwise Sidney Powell wouldn’t have admitted her guilt.
Re: Re: Re:19
The Will of the People is determined by elections and those elections are being undermined by political prosecutions against the leading candidate opposing Biden. Biden is a piss poor President with a 37% approval rating.
The democrat elites don’t give a DAMN about the People or what the People want. If they did, Biden would be more popular. San Francisco and it’s “unsolvable complex problems” suddenly became solvable overnight because of Xi’s visit. If Xi demanded the US secure it’s southern border, then we would actually have a BORDER.
Over 70% of the People see these democrat judicial attacks against Trump as the only way Biden stays in office. Just the mere act of indicting Trump was supposed to dissuade people from voting for him, but that backfired badly.
Now CNN and MSNBC are openly signaling that Trump MUST be convicted of a felony to prevent him from being elected.
You only have to look at the timeline to see the corrupt nature of these political prosecutions.
Trump left office in January 2021 no charges or indictments.
Nov 7,2022 Trump teases he will run for President in 2024
Nov 9,2022 Biden announces his intent to interfere with the 2024 election.
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
Nov 15, 2022 Trump announces a WH bid.
These are the “legitimate efforts”
March 2023 Trump indicted by Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg over Stormy Daniels
June 2023 Trump indicted over classified documents.
August 14,2021 Trump is indicted in Fulton County.
August 21,2023 Trump indicted for election interference.
Judge Tanya Chutkan scheduled the trial to begin on March 4, 2024, the day before voters in more than a dozen states will cast their primary ballots.
So, Trump will be convicted of at least one felony and if Trump loses the election no one will honestly believe it was “free and fair”. If Trump goes to prison, no one will honestly believe it had nothing to do with his running for President.
Re: Re: Re:20
No one honestly believes Trump, save for a bunch of pasty-faced white assholes angry and terrified that the world is sick and tired of them running the country into the ground. You look at gender and racial and sexual minorities with fear, as you fucking should. We had to live under your tyranny for far too long and your time in the spotlight is fucking over.
Re: Re: Re:14
But holy shit you’ll keep picking at them because you think we haven’t kissed your footprints enough. Or your son’s footprints.
Of course people are going to stop you, not allowing you to inject bleach into your veins was doing you a goddamn favor. Apparently that act of mercy was wholly undeserved.
It’s occurred to me because you simply will not shut the fuck up about it, and it genuinely makes it all the funnier that for all the patriotism you proclaim to carry, you’re doing it for a guy who spent his presidential era cosplaying as a Kim Jong Un fanboy.
Trump had nothing, not on his political enemies, not on the wall he insisted Mexico was going to pay for, not on pardoning the Second Amendment fanboys who thought they were crusading in his name. He had four years to bring your targets of hatred under his heel and he failed. Get over yourself.
Re: Re: Re:15
I wouldn’t say that Biden and the democrats are better at putting their enemies in prison, they are just more prone to do it.
Re: Re: Re:16
And yet, “I promise to sue/imprison Trump” was not a defining feature of Biden’s election promises.
That investigations into Trump’s shenanigans happened during Biden’s time in the White House is not the smoking gun you desperately want to think it is. But you do, because you think anyone who vaguely argues against any form of authority – whether it be Derek Chauvin or Donald Trump – should be a capital offense like you’re roleplaying Robert Heinlein’s Starship Troopers.
Does your wife know that you want Trump to grab her by the pussy, davec? Or that you’ve been having Trump grab you by the balls?
Re: Re: Re:17
And yet, that is exactly what he is doing.
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
Who does Biden mean when he says “We”?
Certainly not the 74 million that voted for Trump. Not “We the People”, because he doesn’t even want them to get a chance to decide who their next President will be. Not even the supposed 81 million that voted for him. If they were happy with Biden, he would be reelected handily.
Biden was talking about the power structure of the democrat party.
Biden’s policies have put him in a pickle.
Lawsuits and indictments have backfired handing Trump the Republican nomination.
Afghanistan was a disaster.
The Border is a disaster.
Inflation is a disaster.
Ukraine is a disaster.
Kowtowing to the Chinese is a disaster.
Hunter Biden is a disaster.
Crime is a disaster. Billions lost to retail theft.
Over 100 thousand drug overdose deaths.
If Biden calls for a cease fire in Gaza, he loses the pro-Israel vote.
If he doesn’t call for a ceasefire, he loses the Muslim vote.
Biden is at 37% approval and sinking fast. He could have avoided all of that and even gotten my vote, if he had simply asked “what is best for America”.
America First!!!
Wow! What a brilliant fucken concept for an American politician to have. It could even get someone as flawed as Trump elected. (unless of course Trump is in jail).
Re: Re: Re:18
lol, you backed a pussy grabber and now you’re angry. Too fucking bad. You clearly don’t like how your democracy works because you feel like your balls weren’t kissed enough.
Maybe go inject some horse dewormer into your veins as a sign of your loyalty to Donnie boy, davec. Maybe he’ll kneel on your neck just like Chauvin did because you’re into that, aren’t you?
Re: Re: Re:18
People who don’t think Trump should be President, obviously. People who actually care about Justice and upholding the law. And the way we do it is by voting so that he doesn’t become President.
Re: Re: Re:10
Your boy Trumpy was the one who spent four years screaming about emails, davec. You can stop trying to paint his failure to act on his election promises as some grand masterplan act of magnanimity. Like… this is bordering on Andrew Tate levels of “boohoo girls don’t fuck me because I’m just a weak little nice guy” small dick energy.
Re: Re: Re:10
How is saying that “we should not elect my opponent” and “follow our Constitution when dealing with my opponent” in any way similar to what Trump said and did?
On the federal side, all the indictments came from Republicans and are under Republican-appointed judges. How, exactly, is that the Democrats going after political rivals?
If I saw evidence that that was the case, I’d agree. I just haven’t seen evidence beyond the fact that Biden is currently President, but he’s not directing all this.
Re: Re: Re:5
It’s my understanding that those 4 don’t have to do anything but apologize. The democrats don’t want them, they want Trump. This is a political prosecution meant to influence the 2024 election.
Imagine that! Another Democrat conspiracy!
Next thing you’ll hear is how Powell, Cheesecloth, and Boobus were all Democrat operatives put in place to bring Trump down.
Re: Re: Re:5
If that were true, I doubt those four people would’ve pleaded guilty. I also doubt the prosecution would’ve been able to secure an indictment againt them and the other fifteen defendants with the same level of evidence that’s been presented by Republicans to directly tie Joe Biden to illegal acts (i.e., zero evidence).
By the by: If evidence were to be presented that definitively tied Joe Biden to illegal acts, I’d be calling for him to—at a bare minimum—give up his position as the Democrat candidate for 2024. If a prosecutor wanted to try him for those crimes after he left office, so be it. The problem you appear to have isn’t with the prosecution itself, but with the prosecution targeting a Republican.
Re: Re: Re:6
Over 74 million people voted for Trump in 2020.
Just because you can indict a ham sandwich doesn’t mean you should. At best, Trump will be acquitted, at worst he will be martyred.
Putin critic Alexey Navalny sentenced to 19 more years in prison – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZzt8aXy_5Y
Do you think he got a fair trial?
Do you think Republicans feel Trump is getting fair trials?
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.”
What if a bunch of Republican DAs coordinate judicial prosecutions against Biden to taint and keep him off the campaign trail? Would you consider that fair? Isn’t payback fair?
Re: Re: Re:7
Over 81 million voted for Biden. What’s your point?
“Just because you have evidence of people committing illegal acts in furtherance of a conspiracy to defraud voters and change the outcome of an election doesn’t mean you should indict and prosecute them for those illegal acts.” That’s you. That’s you right now.
Irrelevant. Navalny was tried and convicted in a country with an autocratic tyrant in charge. Biden is anything but. And if the U.S. criminal legal system was as corrupt as you want me to think it is, Trump probably would’ve been tried and convicted at least a year ago.
Irrelevant. The U.S. criminal legal system isn’t supposed to care about someone’s political ideology or political connections. If a Republican lawmaker can essentially gain immunity from prosecution by being a Republican, both the criminal legal system and the political system would be worthless because everyone would identify as a Republican to avoid prosecution for any crime. Same goes for people who want to believe that declaring themselves a candidate for POTUS should make them immune from prosecution.
Show me the evidence of the crime first. I insist.
That, by the way, is where your whole argument falls apart: The GOP has spent years investigating the “Biden crime family” and they have offered no evidence that directly and definitively connects Joe Biden to any illegal acts. If they had something on Joe Biden himself, they’d be saying so instead of referring to “the Biden crime family”. By contrast, the prosecutors in each of Donald Trump’s four criminal cases not only charged him directly and by name, but also presented evidence that implicates him in illegal acts to back up their charges.
Your hypothetical assumes that those DAs would have enough evidence to pass a dismissal motion and enough standing to prosecute a sitting president. Neither one of those seems likely. As for the timing of the Trump trials: He declared his candidacy only to attempt to immunize himself against any such trials. He doesn’t—and shouldn’t—have a “Get Out of Jail Free” card for declaring his candidacy for POTUS.
Again: In the event that prosecutors in the criminal legal system believe they can prove Joe Biden committed an illegal act through evidence of those crimes and the testimony of any witnesses/co-conspirators, I’m okay with him being put on trial after he leaves office. (Good luck getting anyone to set the precedent of putting a sitting president on trial, after all.) His status as a Democrat or a former POTUS shouldn’t immunize him from being tried for any crimes he committed. For what reason can’t you say the same about Donald Trump?
Re: Re: Re:8
Did they? Maybe this is what happened.
As accusations fly over ballot stuffing in mayoral primary, Connecticut Democrat takes the 5th – ABC News (go.com)
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/accusations-fly-ballot-stuffing-mayoral-primary-connecticut-democrat-103972923
Trump is only indicted in deep Blue jurisdictions by deep Blue prosecutors. You can’t have a democracy if more than half the people view it as being corrupt. 70% of the people in the US see this as a political prosecution—that’s corruption!
Plenty of evidence Biden is a crook. What part do you dispute?
Evidence of Joe Biden’s Involvement in His Family’s Influence Peddling Schemes – United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability
https://oversight.house.gov/blog/evidence-of-joe-bidens-involvement-in-his-familys-influence-peddling-schemes/
Sitting President, Presidential candidate, ex-President, leader of the opposition.
You better have an airtight case, a smoking gun and a dead hooker before you light that fuse. The prosecutors don’t, this is plain and simple election interference.
Re: Re: Re:9
“Maybe” is doing a hell of a lot of carrying there, son.
Trump tried his hardest to overturn the election results in states that went to Joe Biden. I can’t imagine why those states have a vested interest in prosecuting someone who is credibly accused of trying to subvert the results of a free and fair election~. (Also: The fact that he is charged with crimes in “deep blue” jurisdictions says more about Republicans and their cowardice than anything else.)
Yes, this is why Republicans are openly trying to subvert democracy through partisan gerrymandering, the disenfranchisement of voters more likely to vote for Democrats, and shit like refusing to nominate people for leadership roles in major government agencies so the president could name “acting” leaders who are accountable to him and him alone rather than to Congress. The GOP is a party of fascist Christian nationalists.
No, that’s a poll result. If you have proof that the prosecution is corrupt that isn’t a mere feeling or opinion that the prosecution is corrupt, feel free to offer it up.
Then why hasn’t anyone investigating the “Biden crime family” presented any credible evidence that proves Joe Biden himself either committed an illegal act or had a direct and knowing hand in a conspiracy to commit an illegal act?
Of those four, only the first one should receive some level of immunity from prosecution. Of the other three: None of those should be grounds to not prosecute someone who stands credibly accused of a crime. If any of them were grounds for immunity from prosecution, a Republican-aligned district attorney would never be able to prosecute a Democrat lawmaker.
The courtroom isn’t supposed to be a place for politics to rule the day. Political alignments of prosecutors and defendants shouldn’t matter if a defendant is credibly accused and a prosecutor believes they can make their case. Or do you truly believe that Donald Trump should be above the law—and therefore immune from any and all prosecutions—because of his political affiliation, his status as a former president, his status as a declared candidate for the 2024 election, and/or his standing accused of crimes in “blue” states?
Re: Re: Re:
A layman’s armchair analysis means nothing to me. I can just as easily point out that Trump’s own mental state can be called into question by comparing interviews he gave a decade ago to interviews he’s given in this past year alone. Besides, Biden was 78 years and 2 months old on Inauguration Day 2021. If Trump were to win the 2024 election, he would be 78 years, 7 months, and 6 days old on Inauguration Day 2025—i.e., he would retake his spot as the oldest man ever elected to the Oval Office. Yes or no, bootlicker: Do you want me to believe that, putting aside all his legal troubles and his fascist tendencies, Trump’s age and mental fitness are such a non-factor compared to Biden’s that they don’t merit even a cursory examination?
…fucking what
I think you’re forgetting that the judicial cronies Trump and the GOP installed during his term in office refused to influence the election in his favor. That lack of “loyalty” led Trump to do the things that got him charged with many of those 91 felonies. If anyone was (and still is) trying to use the courts to influence an election in their favor, it was (and still is) Donald Trump and the GOP. Democrats may have their own issues, but they’re not the ones going around talking about raising the voting age to 25 or drawing district maps to screw over Black voters or whatever else the GOP is doing to suppress votes and dilute the voting power of any demographic whose voting patterns lean even remotely towards the Democratic Party.
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Re: Re: Re:2
She was probably thinking “it worked in 2020”.
Ballot drop boxes fuel election fraud conspiracy theories. Two Democrats just made those claims | AP News
https://apnews.com/article/ballot-drop-boxes-voter-fraud-conspiracies-af4751d78f87c8f5aeefc5daa2b1f6a9
The only reason this was investigated was because a democrat lost.
Surveillance video prompts Connecticut elections officials to investigate Bridgeport primary | AP News
https://apnews.com/article/bridgeport-absentee-ballot-investigation-ganin-c69023a813ab10ab08dd9231e3299ad4
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Re: Re: Re:2
Biden in his senility projects weakness which is exploited by friend and foe.
Re: Re: Re:3
Yeah, he should’ve just capitulated to Russia. Such a pussy move.
Re: Re: Re:
[Projects facrs contrary to evidence]
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Re: Re: Re:2
[Projects facts very much in evidence]
Re: Re: Re:3
Within your otherwise empty head doesn’t count.
Re: Re: Re:3
If Donald Trump wins the 2024 election, he will be a few months older on Inauguration Day 2025 than Biden was on Inauguration Day 2021. Any potshot you want to make about Biden’s age and mental faculties can be lobbed right back at Trump—complete with evidence of his decline. Neither man should be running for POTUS if you’re worried about elderly men with declining mental faculties being in charge of the country. But something tells me you’re not going to agree with that statement.
Re: Re: Re:4
NYT and WSJ m, more reliable sources, have commented on that as well. Concerning.
It’s too early to tell if it’s simply age based decline or dementia, as with Biden.
Neither one should be in office based on health concerns.
Sadly it looks like those will be our choices.
So you can chose the man who “follows orders” and “does what [he’s] told”
Or the man who shoots from the hip and does what he thinks is best.
Re: Re: Re:5
Yeah, and look where that’s got you: Trump is promising to have the DOJ prosecute his political enemies the moment he takes office. I didn’t see Biden promising that shit in 2020. I haven’t see Biden saying he would do it at any point in his presidency up to the time of this post. Do you really want to support a man who is willing to admit how badly he wants to weaponize the federal government against people who he feels were “disloyal” to him during the last six years and change?
(The question is rhetorical. I already know the answer.)
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Re: Re:
Biden suffers from dementia. You know it, I know it and the whole world knows it. It is one the motivating factors for the current wars.
I’m supporting Trump because he has been charged with 91 felonies. If the democrats are successful in unleashing judicial cronies to influence elections, then they will do it again and again and we will be a permanent “Banana Republic.”
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Re: Re: Re:
Trump is imbalanced. Everyone knows that. But he always followed through on what he said. even if he is stopped: eg the border wall.
Countries k ew when he said I’ll bomb you like never before, he meant it. And had the power to do it without congress.
You knew where he stood.
Anyone with any medical knowledge or personal experience knew Biden had dementia before he was elected. Knew he was being sheltered. And new, as is probably by his comments (do what I’m told) that he isn’t setting his own actions up. They see two parties in disarray and know that the likelihood of any actions going into the real world are minimal.
If we get a real third party candidate that isn’t part of the system, he/she will likely win.
This country is fed up with the nonsense of politics.
Absent a totally independent person, democrats will vote for Biden and republicans will vote for Trump. 3% will vote for an actual republican candidate. And 10% will vote other.
We end up with Biden or Trump. And war either way. Abroad and at home.
Re: Re: Re:2
” he always followed through on what he said”
Uh huh, sure he has. Everything he ever said.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Feel free to point to policy he reversed himself on.
I’ll admit if I made an error.
Re: Re: Re:4
Repeal and immediately Replace Obamacare. He did nothing at all there, and he wasn’t being stopped from doing so; he did nothing to really even try to get it passed, and one of the things he did support was to repeal it without replacing it immediately, which was a nonstarter.
Drain the swamp; among many others, Trump’s EPA chair was hilariously corrupt, and Trump didn’t want him to resign. None of his actions were geared towards removing corruption from Washington unless it was to replace it with his own corruption.
He also would change his mind frequently and side with Democrats on many issues during negotiations, like budget deals.
Also, “followed through on everything” doesn’t equal “never reversed himself”. “Completely abandoned” or “never tried” are also valid counters. You’re moving the goalposts.
Re: Re: Re:5
Bot something the president himself is capable of doing. He did continuously push for such a bill. No such bill arrived for him to sign.
Well, depends on how you approach it. Definitely drained the swamp. He replaced many corrupt alligators with crocodiles. You get 50% in that.
Something called negotiation. The current congress should try it.
Re: Re: Re:6
“Something called negotiation.”
That is something that republicans do not know how to do.
Republicans: My way or the highway.
MAGAmorons are acting like those middle east terrorists they love to use as boogie man scary shit and you think they are capable of negotiation.
Re: Re: Re:6
You need to stop lying to yourself, Lodos: Trump—like every other Republican—had no actual plan for an ACA replacement. You can keep saying he wanted/pushed for “repeal and replace” like a rhetorical parrot, but had his efforts succeeded, they would’ve only ever resulted in a repeal without a replacement and millions of people kicked off their healthcare plans for no reason other than Trump and the GOP wanted to undo the signature legislation of the first Black man to be the President of the United States.
Re: Re: Re:7
See, more labels. You are fixated on race. Obama’s care plan sucked. So did the republican plan.
We’re not going to get social healthcare from either party right now.
As I’ve said before, AOC has a bizarre and fantastical idea in the environmental not rooted in any form of fact.
But she has very good social policy, even if she can’t figure out the economics of those ideas.
Re: Re: Re:8
What’s funny is if I ran for office, and you didn’t know it was me, you’d probably vote for me.
Re: Re: Re:9
I don’t vote for third-parties for the same reason I don’t pray: They’re both pointless in the grand scheme of things.
Re: Re: Re:9
What’s funny is if you ran for office, people would look up your comment history and recognize you a mile away.
Re: Re: Re:10
Yes! And I’d be unlikely to get many republican votes. With my free full government healthcare, right to abortion, guaranteed social security, and gutting international military expenditures.
Well, maybe, with my heavy handed restrictions on hand guns (to actually reduce gun violence), but I’d ban concealed carry and legalise open carry. Mandatory long term gun training for ownership and annual renewal testing.
Re: Re: Re:11
Don’t sell yourself short, honey.
Republicans are that desperate. That’s what got them Trump as their best foot forward.
Re: Re: Re:8
Acknowledging how Republicans went batshit crazy over Obama is not being “fixated on race”. You’re no better than some “color-blind” asshole who thinks people trying to address racism are the real racists: You rationalize backwards from the feeling that people insulated from racism have (“if only everyone lived color-blind lives where they didn’t think about race, racism wouldn’t happen”) because believing that fantasy beats doing the actual work to be anti-racist—including the addressing of your own racial biases.
And yet, rather than fix the parts of the plan that sucked, the GOP wanted to do away with the plan as a whole—including the parts that didn’t suck, the parts that people liked—without any sort of plan to replace it.
What plan? Ever since the passage of the ACA, the GOP has never had a solid, fully-formed, “this is what the GOP is offering” plan that the party could put on the table as a replacement for Obamacare. All they’ve had is complaints about Obamacare, a not-zero portion of which are rooted in the fact that the ACA was the signature legislation of the first Black man to serve as POTUS.
We’d be closer to it with Democrats in power than with Republicans (including your precious orange fascist) in power.
Re: Re: Re:9
I never have and never will, understand seeing race. So fucking what. Race doesn’t make a person, nor make any person more or less important.
Again, I not only voted for Obama, I works in both campaigns. Race has nothing to do with my choice. Many of his pre-progressive-corrupted policies were good. Obama care is not one of them.
As long as the current crop of democrats are at the top we will continue the bull policies of spending excessive amounts of taxpayer dollars on other nations while we continue to ignore problems here.
If the dems would top fixing all our country’s money to other states and stop with their one world push, we could fix our country: first.
For all your complaints about republicans and their religious beliefs in policy, all but the most extreme (that’s definitely not Trump), would keep this country far freer than many.
Clearly you have no experience in the rest of the world.
You talk of dictators and autocracy. You don’t have a clue. You’re a sheltered progressive who probably never left the country (if you did, it was to Europe). You don’t have the first clue what extremism and theocracy is like. You’re an “armchair quarterback” and “backseat driver”.
There are far more important things in society than worries about a gay man dressed as a woman being allowed in a women’s toilet; which appears to be one of your more important concerns. 99% of the world doesn’t even let a man dress as a woman.
We have millions of undocumented trespassers in this country today thanks to Biden. Camping on streets. Breaking laws. Dragging down our resources with no return. We have out of control costs on the most of the most basic needs.
We have directly involved ourselves in other country’s wars with zero benefits to our country.
This country has real problems today. Your progressive wish list has nothing to do with making our country better or our lives better. It’s a list of micro populations less than life threatening concerns.
Re: Re: Re:10
Of course you don’t.
Tell that to your precious orange fascist, Donald “Mexicans are rapists and thugs” Trump.
Y’know, it’s shit like that “one world push” crack that make me think you’re far more aware of antisemitic conspiracy theories than you want to let on. No Democrat is pushing for a single world government or any other interpretation of what “one world push” could mean—they’re recognizing the fact that Americans live on the same planet as seven billion other people and trying to help as many of those other billions as they can with the riches of the United States. I agree that the government could stand to turn its attention inward far more than outward; I don’t agree that the U.S. has to pull a North Korea and wholly isolate itself from the rest of the world accomplish that.
Please explain how a de facto establishment of Christianity by virtue of turning conservative Christian beliefs explicitly Christian traditions into the law that governs everyone is “freedom” for everyone who isn’t a Christian. Please explain how bans on abortion promote “freedom” for women, including underage rape victims who were made pregnant via incest. Please explain how living in fear of more gun violence by deranged shitbirds with AR-15s they bought in states with lax-as-hell gun laws (all thanks to Republicans) is “freedom”. Oh, and do please explain how book bans in public and school libraries—with such efforts being near-exculsively led by conservatives and blessed by the GOP—promotes “freedom” for everyone.
The fact of the matter is that the GOP is a party that wants a government big enough for the GOP to control people’s lives but small enough for the GOP to avoid, say, being prosecuted for committing crimes.
I am well aware of theocracies in other countries. I have no desire to see the United States become one. That’s why I don’t vote for Republicans: They’re more than willing to turn the U.S. into a “Christian nation”, and they’ll gladly follow someone who only pays lip service to their religion (i.e., Donald Trump) if he’ll give them the power they need to make that happen.
Would you prefer a nation where the existence of queer people can be criminalized, as it was in Uganda with the help of American evangelicals who pushed for that country’s “kill the gays” laws? Would you want to live a nation where a rapist can make as many women pregnant as possible and still face less jail time than a woman who has an abortion to rid herself of that pregnancy? Would you like being part of a country where any open display of any non-Christian religion or any display of irreligion could be met with violence that will go unpunished—or might possibly even be celebrated!—by every level of the government? All of that is the kind of shit that conservative Christians with shitloads of political, social, and economic power want to make happen in this country. That is the kind of shit that Donald Trump is willing to let happen so long as he gets to sit in the Oval Office—and given the overwhelming support for Trump amongst the American conservative voting base, the GOP has no other choice but to put him back in the Oval Office if Republicans really want to have that power.
Not only did you imply that issues affecting queer people are wholly and objectively unimportant because of bigger issues facing the world, you also managed to throw in some blatant transphobia that would make our usual trolls proud. Congratulations, Lodos: You’re a Republican.
And yes, queer issues are a major concern of mine. I’m a queer person; I’m not going to ignore those issues because there’s a war going on in Israel or global climate change is fucking up everything. If you really believe I shouldn’t give a shit about the issues facing queer people—a demographic to which I belong—by all means, tell me why.
Motherfucker, please, you don’t even know my “wish list”. Or are you seriously going to attribute to me the same vague positions you’re willing to attribute to George Soros because he’s a rich left-leaning Jew?
Re: Re: Re:11
My wish list is to add my gender to the LGBTQIAP alphabet and marry the vision of Stephen T. Stone in my head, glorious queer fabulous that he is.
Oh fuck you’re making me hard.
Re: Re: Re:12
Can we add “wolf” to the list of sexualities? You know, like the guy who wrote the counter-rant to the attack helicopter copypasta. Wolf deserves to be treated as a legitimate gender and sexuality, and it’ll help us onboard the furries too.
The fact that “furry” has not yet been recognized as a gender is a fucking travesty that the Flying Spaghetti Monster would not tolerate, and yet here we are because we are literally in the worst possible timeline.
Re: Re: Re:13
oh my fsm, totes
Re: Re: Re:4
“I’ll admit if I made an error.”
No you will not. Like so many other self important assholes, making claims is the easy part. It is the follow through part that is most difficult, impossible even.
Re: Re: Re:4
Trumpcare
Infrastructure Week
Locking Hillary up
Mexico sending a check for the wall
Want me to go on?
Re: Re: Re:
“Biden suffers from dementia”
Are you a licensed medical doctor?
Do you have any evidence of your claim?
As I understand it, Dementia is not something that is easily diagnosed. Are you aware of the testing involved and how much of it is subjective?
I suggest that you cease with things you know little about.
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Re: Re: Re:2
I remember Biden from 8 years ago and the decline has been tragic. That decline is noticed by the whole world, and they see it as a decline of the US as well—thus the current wars.
The only person less popular than Biden is Kamala Harris. If Biden was diagnosed with dementia the 25th Amendment would kick in and her kackling would drag the whole party down with her.
To top it off, Biden has been peddling influence to the benefit of his family and his son Hunter. That has been going on for years and when Trump mentioned it in the phone call, Pelosi impeached him. Democrats try to defend what Biden has been doing by saying “the scandal in Washington is not what’s illegal, but what is legal”.
Question is,
How many American jobs and manufacturing companies have been lost to countries like China and others due to kickbacks. The Green New Deal claims good jobs in renewable energy, yet the solar panels are all built in China. How much was the kickback for that??
We stop pumping oil for environmental reasons, but the pumping doesn’t stop, it just moves to other countries like Iran and Russia. All we accomplished was making them rich while we pay $6 per gallon for gas. How much was the kickback for that????
Re: Re: Re:3
I remember him from then, too. He hasn’t declined at all since then.
More to the point, you’re avoiding the question: What gives you the expertise to diagnose dementia at all?
Wars which aren’t against the US, both of which had already shown signs of occurring in the near future well before Biden became President.
[citation needed from a non-tabloid]
Kickbacks? I don’t know of many, and the ones I am aware of were largely done by Republicans. Unless you count kickbacks instituted by the non-American companies, I guess. Other jobs were lost, but not for kickbacks.
The idea was to start manufacturing solar panels in the US, but that aside, this has nothing to do with Biden.
I don’t recall the pumping stopping at all; what was stopped was new wells being drilled in national parks, specifically (something which Biden later reversed, btw), along with one pipeline that would have only allowed a Canadian company to more easily ship oil out of Louisiana to other countries, with that oil being unsuited for most purposes where we really need oil (namely fuel).
We don’t get our oil from either of those countries, to my knowledge. OPEC, yes, but not Iran, and Russia only supplied Eurasia.
You are aware that the policies that led to that particular mess stemmed from Trump demanding they increase gas prices when it was low combined with the pandemic making gas prices unusually low since fewer people were driving, right?
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Re: Re: Re:4
BS! Look at a video of Biden as Senator or Vice President and look at him today. If he was your grandfather, you’d walk him over to his rocking chair and get him a shawl.
I’ve looked at those videos and compared them to the tottering old man who can’t find his way off the stage. If you think I’m the only one—
Biden is widely seen as too old for office, an AP-NORC poll finds. Trump has problems of his own | AP News
https://apnews.com/article/biden-age-poll-trump-2024-620e0a5cfa0039a6448f607c17c7f23e
In February and March 2014, Russia invaded the Crimean Peninsula, and then annexed it. From 2017 to 2021, no invasion and no fighting—why? February 2022 full blown invasion involving Russian, Belorussian and Wagner troops—why?
This recent attack on Israel was the worst in Israel’s history.
So now we are financing two wars and spending billions to provide for the millions crossing our southern border. Hopefully Iran and China won’t see our predicament as a golden opportunity to overwhelm the American taxpayer.
Yes! Non-American companies like Burisma. Chinese companies selling solar panels and microchips. Russian, Saudi, Iranian companies selling oil. American policies for sale that are hurting Americans and benefiting other countries.
You would think that we would start manufacturing solar panels here first and then start shutting down fossil fuels. Why haven’t we—Biden!
Biden declared war on fossil fuel without having its replacement ready. Unforced error! We went from a major exporter to an importer of oil and then Biden sold oil from our reserves and it was bought by the Chinese. Unforced error!
We have more than enough oil to supply ourselves and our allies, but Biden shut our production down. When he reversed that, the oil companies weren’t going to invest billions to pump oil because Biden might reverse himself again. If Trump becomes President again, the oil companies will invest.
No, supply and demand determine the price and the average price of gas in 2020 was $2.17 per gallon and today it is $3.50. In California (land of taxes) where I live, it is $5.31. Price of fuel is a major contributor to inflation.
Re: Re: Re:5
Hey davec, why don’t you try pulling a Jan 6th yourself? You seem like a concerned enough citizen. Maybe Trump will notice you and try to finance your way out of prison when the consequences for your actions finally come knocking on your door. You know, like all the people he’s managed to pardon out of charges. Oh wait, he hasn’t!
Re: Re: Re:3
You neglected to answer any of the questions asked of you.
Your reply seems to be mindless wandering about as though you were lost or something.
Re: Re: Re:2
Are you a licensed medical doctor?
Only when it comes to womens’ reproductive freedom.
That’s their only medical ‘concern’ if you can even call it that.
Re:
We won’t secure our border but Heaven help anyone crossing Ukraine’s or Israel’s border—we are all over that.
Oh what a comparison! Tell you what, when those at the southern border are coming in with tanks and rockets, maybe you’ll have a point. As it stands it’s just more useless drivel, similar to everything else you post.
Re:
First, Biden has been doing plenty to secure our southern border. Arrests of those crossing the border unlawfully is higher now than it was under Trump. The idea that we won’t secure our border is just nonsense.
Second, if you don’t know the difference between a military invasion or terrorist attack and civilians unlawfully crossing our southern border (even if it is to ship illegal drugs), I don’t know what to tell you. If tanks start crossing our border or missiles start getting fired over it, then your comparison might make some sense. As it is, though, these two things aren’t even comparable.
Re:
And you think things would be better under Trump? You know, for someone who mocks Biden as a Democrat choice you really do want to scrape the bottom of the barrel when it comes to picking a Republican representative. Or maybe it’s because Trump speaks your language over and over: the fever dream of you being able to shoot anyone you disagree with.
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If you don’t think there is a border crisis, you’d better pull your head out of your ass.
There is a legal way to enter this country, yet we are allowing millions to enter illegally from all over the world. We have no idea who they are and with two wars going on that may prove to be a very dangerous thing.
I live in the San Diego area and they just declared an emergency because we don’t have the means to provide for the thousands that have been released here.
Thousands of migrants released in San Diego due to full shelters | AP News
https://apnews.com/article/biden-border-migrant-shelters-afd3a60803902eb4e1d6890785275a2c
This didn’t happen under Trump, Bush, or even Obama.
Democrats Who Have Declared States of Emergency Over Border Crisis (dailysignal.com)
https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/15/democrats-who-have-declared-states-emergency-border-crisis/
I know that more Americans are dying from fentanyl crossing our southern border than Ukrainians are dying from Russian missiles and tanks.
Re:
There is a legal way to enter this country, yet we are allowing millions to enter illegally from all over the world. We have no idea who they are and with two wars going on that may prove to be a very dangerous thing.
Go complain to Trump. He was the big shot who was going to build a Mexico-funded wall. I thought it’d be done since republicans controlled the House, Senate, and Executive, but somehow you dumbfucks couldn’t bring yourselves to fund it. So why did you leave such an important thing not done? (Answer: because you morons can’t do anything, except dictate women’s health care).
I live in the San Diego area and they just declared an emergency because we don’t have the means to provide for the thousands that have been released here.
Tell DeSantis and that piece of shit governor of Texas to stop shipping them there.
I know that more Americans are dying from fentanyl crossing our southern border
Call the fucking cops then.
Re: Re:
but somehow you dumbfucks couldn’t bring yourselves to fund it
Actually, what slowed the buildout was not funding, but lawsuits… mostly over environmental concerns but a few over land rights as well.
The land fights were a lost cause. Fighting eminent domain will just about always loose.
The environmental impact was more important. Trumps wall sucked. Now Biden is building the same wall in the same spots,
Since big bad Trump took the blame and Biden is just doing what was set. Unfortunately wildlife will suffer but it’s easier to fix the problem after it’s built than re litigate
The kicker, Biden authorised the sale of the materials for the wall at pennys to the dollar. And now the administration is buying new materials (sometimes the same) for full cost all over again.
As for > davec’s immigration mess… the answer is move. California is a sanctuary state. That was their decision. Rational people are a minority in that state. They called for them with open arms, rational states said fine, take them.
Re: Re: Re:
lol, tough shit broski. Then what the fuck are your six conservative Supreme Court judges doing when you’ve already stacked the deck this hard?
Lodos, my guy, you keep trying to insist you’re not a Republican hack. Yet every time these threads start you break your back several times just to make sure their feelings don’t get vaguely hurt.
I have never seen someone fuck himself this hard for someone’s sake, then fuck himself even harder trying to insist it’s not for someone’s sake.
davec should really adopt you as his son because the guy’s got a fetish for useless fucks like you.
Re: Re:
San Diego is in a “Sanctuary State”. Nobody asked us. We the People didn’t get to vote on it. Kevin de Leon (you know the democrat racist) passed a bill and Newsome signed it.
Los Angeles Councilman Will Run Again Despite Racist Audio Backlash – The New York Times (nytimes.com)
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/20/us/los-angeles-de-leon-tape.html
Not enforcing the law in California is typical. That’s why a beautiful state has turned into a sewer.
Again, California doesn’t enforce laws, so they usually just call the coroner. Sadly, I think Mattew Perry may be another victim.
Re: Re: Re:
The asshole fuckers are coming for you, davec, because you’re the biggest damn asshole of all. I strongly suggest that you don’t use lube. You won’t be needing it after you accidentally shoot your wife and the police come in and blow up your house.
You obviously didn’t read this–
Evidence of Joe Biden’s Involvement in His Family’s Influence Peddling Schemes – United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability
https://oversight.house.gov/blog/evidence-of-joe-bidens-involvement-in-his-familys-influence-peddling-schemes/
Yes, they would have to impeach Biden first which would take a while. Removal requires 2/3 of the Senate to convict and that’s not going to happen. The press would downplay it and make Biden out to be a sympathetic victim who was exonerated. Even if the Republicans were successful, Kamala would be President. Perhaps the democrats would replace Biden with someone like Newsome as their candidate.
My guest would be that the Republicans will either wait till October or the outcome of Trumps trial to release the smoking gun, the dead hooker and the live page.
Re:
No, I didn’t, because you haven’t given me a reason to read it. So it’s a report by a Republican-led effort to find some excuse to impeach Joe Biden. So what? I haven’t heard thing goddamn one about any direct evidence of his direct involvement with any illegal acts. If that evidence existed and that committee could provide it, that would be front page news on every major news outlet. But since the news outlets have yet to report on any smoking gun–level evidence about Joe Biden, I have no reason to think the evidence already provided by that committee amounts to the same kind of evidence that is being presented at Trump’s four criminal trials.
My guess is that if Republicans had that evidence, they would’ve already presented it to the public and pushed for the impeachment of Joe Biden in the same way that Democrats pushed for the (first) impeachment of Donald Trump after the content of that phone call to Ukraine was presented to the public. Republicans don’t tend to hold back anything that could paint Democrats in a poor light, especially when that Democrat is the sitting president.
Again: Your complaints all imply that your big problem with the prosecution of Donald Trump is how someone has the balls to prosecute a high-level Republican for committing crimes. I bet you’d have no problem with Biden being prosecuted at the exact same time as Trump in Republican-controlled states because that wouldn’t be a “political prosecution” or “election interference”, but a “just and fair outcome of Biden’s wrongdoing” or some similar kind of horseshit. You can’t have it both ways without being a partisan hypocrite (and a supporter of fascism): Either Trump deserves to be prosecuted for the crimes of which he stands accused or Biden deserves the same level of immunity you want extended to Donald Trump. Which one is it, bootlicker?
Re: Re:
What part do you dispute?
The fact that Hunter was paid millions in kickbacks for papa Joe’s influence.
Or
The email where Hunter is complaining about coughing up papa Joe’s share.
My complaint is against the whole goddamned idea of depriving Americans of a free and fair election. Arming and aiming your judicial cronies to influence the 2024 election is worse than anything Trump has done, including January 6th.
Re: Re: Re:
The part where you say “this is direct evidence of Joe Biden committing a crime”. Because that shit isn’t in there—if it were, it would be headline news on every newspaper, news network, and news website I could think of. I mean, Fox News isn’t even willing to say that they’ve seen credible evidence that Joe Biden committed a crime. They paid out hundreds of millions of dollars to settle a defamation suit; do you really believe they want to fuck up that badly a second time?
Then you should be pissed off at Donald Trump. He tried to do exactly what you’re talking about by demanding that states stop counting legally cast votes after Election Day, having at least some knowledge of the multi-state Republican-led fake electors scheme, trying to convince Mike Pence to shirk his constitutional duty, and ultimately goading hundreds of his followers to storm the Capitol as a last-ditch effort to stop the certification of the 2020 election results. That is far more of an attempt to “depriv[e] Americans of a free and fair election” than the criminal cases borne from those actions will ever be.
Trump stands credibly accused of over 90 felonies across four criminal cases, and they all relate to his attempts to subvert the results of the 2020 election and remain president despite losing both the popular and electoral votes. Do you believe he shouldn’t stand trial for those crimes because (a) he’s a Republican, (b) he’s a former president, (c) he’s running a campaign to become president again, or (d) all of the above?
Re: Re: Re:2
“None are so blind as those who will not see.” I have a feeling it will be headline news everywhere in October.
It might as well be 90,000 felonies. The answer is c.
Re: Re: Re:3
I don’t know how to break this to you, son, but the GOP isn’t going to wait a whole-ass year to say “we have evidence that Biden committed a crime”.
For what reason should someone be wholly and completely immune from prosecution if, regardless of the viability of their campaign, they declare themselves a candidate for the presidency?
Re: Re: Re:4
I know you hate to read, but
for this reason—
A Second American Civil War Has Begun (msn.com)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-second-american-civil-war-has-begun/ar-AA1jeiwh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=860d5489b9254a598e43209b344917a7&ei=12
Re: Re: Re:5
I’m not seeing anything in the linked article that amounts to a good enough reason for the government to immunize anyone who declares themselves a presidential candidate from any form of prosecution for alleged criminal acts. Let me ask the question a different way: If Republicans found and presented credible evidence that a Democrat broke the law, for what reason should the law allow that Democrat to effectively immunize themselves from prosecution only and specifically by declaring their candidacy for the presidency, regardless of whether that Democrat stands a chance of winning so much as a single primary vote?
Re: Re: Re:6
Trump wouldn’t be prosecuted at all if he wasn’t running for office. All of these indictments started after he announced. The fact that these indictments have actually helped Trump is the only reason they have been tolerated by Trump supporters. 70% of Americans see them as a political prosecution and an abuse of power by the democrats so regardless of even one guilty verdict, that 70% will view them as unjust.
If there was any doubt that they are political, Joes own words–
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
Democrat cronies are only doing what their party has commanded. The question is how far will they go?
Biden is at 37% and sinking fast. The Democrats don’t know if they are pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian. If there is another fiasco like Afghanistan in Ukraine, not even Hunter will vote for Joe. So how will the democrats stop Trump? Ballot stuffing? Covid? The Supreme Court will stop States from taking Trump off the ballot. Will they arrest Trump and throw the duly elected President in jail. How will Trump’s VP respond? How will the MAGA crowd respond? Will the democrats try and throw all of them in jail? If you thought January 6th was bad.
Re: Re: Re:7
Trump announced his candidacy in an blatant attempt to avoid prosecution. You must have one crazy-ass belief system if you believe anyone should be able to effectively immunize themselves from prosecution by declaring themselves a candidate for political office.
69% of Americans think my ass is fine as fuck. (Look, I can make up statistics and act like they’re representative of a majority of the country, too!)
I’m not seeing anything in that quote that sounds like the same call to action that Trump and his cronies made on the 6th of January 2021. Seriously, I’d love to know what specific part of that quote suggests to you that Biden is calling on people to commit unethical and/or illegal acts to stop Trump from becoming POTUS again, because I can’t see whatever subtext you’re seeing.
Despite the fact that three of the people sitting on that court right now are there because of Trump, that alone won’t be enough to save him. That court didn’t sign on to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, after all. And the argument about whether Trump should be disqualified from the ballot by virtue of the 14th Amendment is far from settled. While I wouldn’t dare call the case for disqualifying him to be a slam dunk, from what I’ve read, it comes off as an effective argument.
I mean, he’s already been arrested and processed for each of his criminal trials. At this point, the only thing standing between Trump and a little jail time is the willingness of the judges who’ve issued gag orders in those cases to toss his orange ass in jail for a short stay as punishment for Trump’s continued and blatant contempt for the courts and the criminal legal system. Or do you believe that, unlike the average defendant in a criminal trial, Trump should be free to harass and intimidate potential witnesses, attempt to influence any possible juries, or foment violence (or threats thereof) against officers of the court?
That one sentence says a lot about you. None of it is good.
Re: Re: Re:7
Don’t worry, I am entirely convinced that there is no bottom you 2nd Amendment nutters will not sink to in order to embarrass yourselves.
Where’s all the pardons that Trump promised? Where’s all the discovery Sidney Powell was going to bring?
Re: Re: Re:4
There’s still the untested premise of presidential immunity. Something the Supreme Court will eventually need to decide.
The Nixon doctrine.
Many legal and constitutional scholars are behind Trump in his claims, even ones who hate him. The idea is that a president is beholden to congress alone.
Congress tried and acquitted the president over Jan 6 (the Colorado case has no standing).
Congress had the opportunity to impeach the President for Georgia, where Trump claims and nobody has shown evidence to the contrary, he was acting to verify election integrity.
, the the case will likely be thrown out on appeal.
That leaves the personal wealth lawsuit. Which is dead in the water despite the theatre of going forward. The case hinges on two points: Trump over values his assets and Trump received better banking rates because of that.
And here the case is completely dead.
ALL evidenced shows that trumps real estate assets are fairly valued. If not occasionally under valued. The banks, with experts in reality, did their own evidential review and agreed with the stated values.
The current judge can rule as he wants. It won’t survive appeal.
The judge is not an agent, broker, researcher, investor, or in any other way qualified to judge property values on his own.
This case is a complete acquittal on appeal.
Your list of “crimes” is less than paper thin.
The only case of real consequence is the mishandling of records. And that’s a hard one to foretell. Trump had within his chain of possession documents that may or may not have been, be, classified. Documents he twice petitioned to have reviewed. (Note court documents confirm that).
What it comes down to, though, is possession. As he did not personally remove the documents, nor did he direct anyone to. They were collected by staffers. Boxed by staffers, and moved by staffers.
The question is wilful retention. After they left the White House. That’s going to be very hard to prove.
A single factual claim stands in the way of “lying” about returns: most Americans loose their keys once a month. A few hundred (low) to a few thousand (high) pieces of paper in 10s of thousands not being properly sorted prior to ANY sorting of any materials is fairly easy to conclude potential. And that’s completely reasonable doubt.
These cases boil down to only two possibilities:
A) hate the man so much toss everything at him and pray something sticks no matter how preposterous the claims are
B) try to find a way to tie up the Defendant enough to disrupt the election
You can make your own decision which is the truth.
Re: Re: Re:5
Do me a favor: Think long and hard about the idea of a president being immune to prosecution. Think about the consequences of that notion. Then consider whether you want to live in a democratic republic or a fascist autocracy, because a grant of full immunity from all prosecution to the president would essentially turn the president into a monarch. Oh, and the last time I checked, the Founding Fathers fought a whole-ass war over the idea that the United States deserved a better system than “the divine right of kings”, so consider whether turning the president into a king is really the approach you want to take, especially when Trump did his damnedest to stay in the Oval Office despite losing the election.
I wouldn’t want Joe Biden to be immune from prosecution if he committed a crime. Why should Donald Trump be held to a different standard other than (a) his being a Republican, (b) his being a former president, (c) his being a current candidate for president, (d) the threat of violence from his supporters should he be convicted, or (e) all of the above?
Re: Re: Re:6
Our Founding Fathers thought of that.
You must impeach and remove the President from office before you can try him/her in court. Otherwise, opposition political cronies would use the courts to hamstring the President. Which is exactly what they are doing to Trump.
Candidates for office should be treated fairly and evenly, and that is not happening. If the incumbent is protected while his opponent is forced to defend themselves in multiple courtrooms, that is not a free and fair election.
If Trump is unsuccessful in his bid for the WH, then try him for his alleged crimes in December 2024 when the campaign is over.
Re: Re: Re:7
Serious, no-bullshit, yes-or-no question: Do you believe Donald Trump should be given immunity from prosecution if, at some point between the time of this post and the day before Election Day in 2024, he were to kill someone on live TV?
You’re asking me to sign onto the idea that a candidate for political office—any candidate, any office—should be immune from criminal prosecution because prosecuting them would be “unfair” to that candidate. I can’t do that because that would undermine the U.S. criminal legal system; as flawed as that system is, allowing people to escape that system by saying “I’m running for president” would be a death knell for that system.
(Along those same lines: Do you believe Donald Trump should be given immunity from prosecution if, after winning the 2024 election and being sworn in for his second term, he were to kill someone on live TV?)
Re: Re: Re:8
Ridiculous, but I’ll play.
No. If Trump actually kills someone on live TV you can arrest him. It won’t start a war.
I’ll save you the follow up—
If one of your democrat cronies claim Trump murdered someone and wants Trump in jail till after the trial and Trump claims innocence, then you can arrest and release him but not try him until after the election.
If the President kills someone on live TV with a chainsaw, an axe, a gun or whatever, you can arrest them, impeach them, remove them from office, and then peruse a criminal case against them.
Re: Re: Re:9
The fact that your only real consideration for prosecuting Trump seems to be “will doing this make right-wing gunfuckers start killing people en masse” is…telling.
That would be giving Trump special treatment that few other criminal defendants accused of murder have ever received. You’re basically saying that if Trump killed someone and I killed someone, Trump should be allowed to walk free until his trial because he declared his candidacy for president and I should be allowed to walk free if I declare my candidacy for any public office. You can’t have it both ways: Either everyone (including the people you hate) can claim immunity from prosecution only and specifically because they declared a candidacy for public office or nobody can claim immunity because running for public office shouldn’t come with an automatic grant of immunity from prosecution. Which one do you believe in?
For what reason must the president first be impeached and removed from office before they can be prosecuted for a murder that has no connection whatsoever with the duties of the office? And what happens if the president is impeached but the Senate fails to convict for any reason—should the president therefore receive complete immunity from prosecution for that murder even after they leave office because of double jeopardy or presidential immunity or any other justification you can imagine?
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I lived through the sixties and we are more divided now than then. I don’t want to see you asshole fuckers or gun fuckers killing one another.
I get that your are being an obtuse idiot, but I’ll play along.
If you can make bail and the judge agrees to postpone your trial to allow for your defense, then you would be treated better than Trump.
You are the only one talking about immunity.
The President is not immune from prosecution, it just requires more steps.
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Ah, casual homophobia—you really are a Republican.
Or maybe it’s because Republicans haven’t found any credible smoking gun–level evidence that directly implicates Biden in a criminal act. Compare that to Trump, where there was more than enough evidence for prosecutors to secure indictments for over 90 felonies across four different criminal cases. Or are you going to tell me that, for example, the photos of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago were all “fake news”?
Not an answer. Yes or no, bootlicker: If some random jackoff murders someone and the state can prove that said jackoff committed the murder, should that random jackoff be allowed to effectively immunize themselves from prosecution by declaring their candidacy for any political office? (And if the answer is “no”: For what reason should Trump be allowed to do that other than his status as a Republican/a former president?)
You have argued that Trump deserves to avoid being prosecuted for his (alleged) crimes only because he has declared himself a candidate for president. I assume that you would repeat that argument if he were to win the presidency. What I’m asking you to do now is consider the logical endgame of your arguments and apply them to a president you obviously hate with a passion instead of a president whose ass you seem more than ready to kiss—because once you make the argument that one of those presidents should be immune (or not immune) from prosecution, you’re making that argument for all presidents.
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You wouldn’t know because you’re too scared to look.
Evidence of Joe Biden’s Involvement in His Family’s Influence Peddling Schemes – United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability
https://oversight.house.gov/blog/evidence-of-joe-bidens-involvement-in-his-familys-influence-peddling-schemes/
There is no immunization for murder so take that out of your question.
No. I’m saying he was only charged with those crimes because he declared himself a candidate for President. 70% of the people agree with me.
Trump left office in January 2021 no charges or indictments.
Nov 7,2022 Trump teases he will run for President in 2024
Nov 9,2022 Biden announces his intent to interfere with the 2024 election.
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
The President of the US doesn’t determine who the next President will be, the People do.
Nov 15, 2022 Trump announces a WH bid.
March 2023 Trump indicted by Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg over Stormy Daniels
June 2023 Trump indicted over classified documents.
August 14,2021 Trump is indicted in Fulton County.
August 21,2023 Trump indicted for election interference.
Judge Tanya Chutkan scheduled the trial to begin on March 4, 2024, the day before voters in more than a dozen states will cast their primary ballots.
That is exactly what I’m doing. These democrat judicial cronies along with the President are participating in election interference and judicial abuse of power. If they succeed, court trials will determine elections not the People.
So far, their plan has backfired big time. If Trump does win the election, what will the democrats do to prevent him from taking office?
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I’m not scared to look. But when no major news outlet—including Fox News!—is willing to say that someone has found evidence of Joe Biden committing a crime, I’m not going to care. Show me the actual evidence of Biden committing an actual crime and I’ll show you a story that’ll be headline news on every outlet for days to come.
Irrelevant. You have argued that Trump should be immune from prosecution for the 90-plus felonies he’s been charged with only and specifically because he has declared himself a candidate for president. Answer the question(s): If some random jackoff murders someone and the state can prove that said jackoff committed the murder, should that random jackoff be allowed to effectively immunize themselves from prosecution by declaring their candidacy for any political office? (And if the answer is “no”: For what reason should Trump be allowed to do that other than his status as a Republican/a former president?)
And you are therefore arguing that only and specifically because of his declaration, he should be immune from prosecution for those charges.
Probably nothing—just like they’ve done every time a Republican wins the presidential election. But if they do decide to pull some bullshit like the insurrection (and I’ll condemn that if it ever happens), you have to put some of the blame for that on Trump. He’s the one who decided to normalize violence as part of the American political equation when he fomented an insurrection against American democracy because he lost a free and fair election. If he can do that and suffer no real consequences for his actions—and he really hasn’t, at least not yet—for what reason shouldn’t the Democrats at least consider returning the favor?
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No jackoff. You are the only one mentioning immunity.
I’m saying he was only charged with those crimes because he declared himself a candidate for President. 70% of the people agree with me.
Trump left office in January 2021 no charges or indictments.
Nov 7,2022 Trump teases he will run for President in 2024
–
Nov 9,2022 Biden announces his intent to interfere with the 2024 election.
“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
The President of the US doesn’t determine who the next President will be, the People do.
Nov 15, 2022 Trump announces a WH bid.
–
Democrats launch Soviet style attacks on American democracy, Trump and his supporters.
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”–Beria. Soviet and democrat justice.
–
March 2023 Trump indicted by Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg over Stormy Daniels
June 2023 Trump indicted over classified documents.
August 14,2021 Trump is indicted in Fulton County.
August 21,2023 Trump indicted for election interference.
Judge Tanya Chutkan scheduled the trial to begin on March 4, 2024, the day before voters in more than a dozen states will cast their primary ballots.
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And you’re arguing that he shouldn’t be prosecuted for those (alleged) crimes because he declared himself a candidate for president. You can keep rephrasing that point all you like, but that is your argument: That so long as Trump or Biden or anyone else declares themselves a candidate for president, that declaration should immunize them from prosecution for any crime for which they would otherwise be prosecuted were they not a candidate.
You’re not fooling anyone but yourself, bitch.
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I thought you left.
BTW the tiara only makes you pretty, it doesn’t make you a princess.
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Do you make your son wear the Donald Trump mask, davec? Or do you have to wear it instead?
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Eh… I dunno, you keep making a very good case for yourself accidentally having the trigger activated while you’re making sweet love to your pistol.
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You totally missed the point. He’s not immune from prosecution. He’s immune from civilian prosecution. The system was set up by the founders to prevent a civilian trial. Congress is the only body that can try a president for actions during a presidency. The house charges, and the senate tries.
Once the president leaves office, he carries the immunity of that process. The question has come up after the transfer of office; can Trump still be impeached after he left office. That question came up because of the constitutional requirements of the senate.
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Oh, right… is that what Sidney Powell promised?
When said discovery would be fun?
How’d that turn out for her Trumpfuck?
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Wow, she paid $6000. Probably less than she paid for her purse. If they are smart, they will let all of the defendants go for even less.
I wonder if there will be reprisals from the Trump administration?
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Given that Trump has promised to prosecute his political enemies if he becomes POTUS again, I would assume that yes, he would indeed throw around the full weight of the Oval Office to destroy the lives of anyone who turns against him in these criminal trials.
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Getting fucked over for six grand when you promised that an expose to prove everything you claimed was imminent is not the victory you want to think it is. The only victory you might claim is that she could have been nailed for much more.
“Probably less than she paid for her purse” is the kind of small dick energy comment one makes when you’re coping harder than Blizzard’s Overwatch team.
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It”s telling you couldn’t scratch up a single factual source to link.