That’s right, davec. Ignore all the other reports linked to in those articles. As for your children not being in a gang because they don’t have specific tattoos, that says nothing about their propensity for violence. Didn’t you recently threaten an autistic commenter with a firearm on this site? The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, as they say.
If you are referring to this
I’m going to touch you in the weak woke-ass millennial waste of space where your manhood should be, you spiteful, Stephen Stoned brat. With my firearm.
This is exactly the dishonesty I have been referring to. You know I didn’t post that and it shows what little regard you have for the truth.
Contrast davec’s deliberate false narrative with what’s been going on in the real world:
If you think techdirt is the “real world” or unbiased, you need to climb out of your basement and take a walk in the sun. One of the reasons I post here is to provide a little daylight and fight against an echo chamber that makes no attempt to verify the facts or seek the truth.
No. Davec’s kind of cops are the ones like his son that don’t see all the malfeasance going on around them.
They have been investigating this since the 70’s and so far, found nothing, yet you believe that every cop (not just deputies) knows about it and is in on it.
Since none of my kids have tattoos, I doubt they are members or know what the “gang” is up to.
Oh, no. “davec” just pretends cops like these either don’t exist or are statistically insignificant.
Let’s see what they find.
Independent investigation of LASD 'deputy gangs' launched - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
I see nothing in that study that explains why corpses “resist arrest”. Or how. Because stupid me always thought that dead people committing violence was only in the realm of zombie movies. Which are fiction in case you’re confused. 😀
Show me the article or video that you are referring to.
It is not the norm when constant abuse of force goes unpunished. We’re headed in the right direction now that video cameras are in the hands of nearly everybody, showing clear evidence that it is an ongoing issue.
I totally agree about cameras. When my son first got his bodycam he was delighted.
Also, more fundamentally, how does boasting about the number of officers and arrests show in any way that force is not used in excess?
With over 10 million arrests some are going to go sideways. The arrest of Rayshard Brooks by Officer Rolfe was a picture perfect example of how to make an arrest until it wasn’t. Brooks is dead and Rolfe is facing the death penalty. Officer Potter was training another officer on how to make a simple traffic stop. She was an exemplary officer with 26 years of experience. In less than 3 seconds she had killed a man and is now in prison. One of the reasons there is a shortage of officers is because they are now taking so much time to deescalate. Killing someone is the second to the last thing any officer wants to happen.
How many of these arrests are legitimate? How many actually led to convictions?
Everyone arrested by the police is assumed innocent. It is up to the DA to press charges and the judge or jury to determine guilt.
They are on camera yelling “stop resisting” at a corpse, so I will take any statistics with a truckload of salt.
I think someone got their PHD on this one.
Why do they resist? Exploring dynamics of police-citizen violence during arrest encounters (csusb.edu)
And described the training hecprovides by extension. Are you accidentally obtuse, or is it a fashion statement?
This is a 10 hour online course for $99.00 about “Forensic Statement Analysis” and I’m willing to bet that he doesn’t say “towel head”, or “mountain panda” anywhere in it.
This is what Richard Whitehead teaches. Don’t worry, you don’t even have to put your bong down, there is a video.
Forensic Statement Analysis ~ Deception Detection » Law Enforcement Learning
Recruiting has become more difficult because policing in America can a really dangerous job for low pay (not much more than minimum wage, I believe), so the only people interested are thugs who like to unnecessarily shoot and restrain unarmed and co-operating suspects. That’s why qualified immunity was advertised as a perk of the job. Thanks to Potter’s arrest, it’s now known that qualified immunity doesn’t apply in every case, putting off the thugs and thus reducing the pool of candidates. It’s really simple when you put your mind to it.
Obviously you have a really simple mind.
Below is a list of the top-10 highest-paying states for police officers:
California average police officer salary: $105,220
Alaska average police officer salary: $87,870
New Jersey average police officer salary: $86,840
Washington average police officer salary: $80,200
Hawaii average police officer salary: $78,720
Illinois average police officer salary: $78,350
New York average police officer salary: $77,490
Colorado average police officer salary: $75,720
Delaware average police officer salary: $73,740
Nevada average police officer salary: $73,660
These are hourly union jobs with lots of opportunity for overtime pay so you could nearly double your base salary. In fact some cities like Chicago are demanding officers work extra shifts due to short staffing. Cities are offering signing bonuses, moving allowances and other perks to get people to sign up and fill the void. They’ve lowered the standards both physical and background checks to recruit more bodies and it’s still not enough. Cops are leaving faster than they can be replaced. In some cities like Denver repairmen are refusing to service high crime areas.
One of the most disturbing things I had seen on Reddit up to that point was this post, which pretty much tracks with the above article:
I read the article and I doubt its sincerity for a couple of reasons.
Liberal cities are scrounging for recruits like this person and are willing to give them signing bonuses, moving allowances, and train them from scratch.
Police Academy training at a Community College is more than 1 semester.
There is more to the story than they are letting on.
In particular, one of them explained to me that his training involved using physical force (including guns) as a last resort, not as SOP, and he’s still alive today after 15+ years of service (which sounds like a miracle if we go by your view of the world). This should be the norm.
With over 700,000 police officers and roughly 10 million arrests every year, that is the norm. My son and daughter in law have survived nearly 50 years of service between the two of them, but the job has been dangerous at times. My daughter in law was attacked while serving a warrant by a man with a knife. She maced him, but he didn’t stop so she shot him. Fortunately, he lived and she was unharmed. My granddaughter was 3 at the time.
I don’t understand the “but” here. Unless the other half is also Asian.
My daughter in law could have identified as Asian, White or Mixed Race. She chose Mixed Race.
Not sure about “most of them”, but many cops have proven that “us vs them” is “cops vs everyone else”. Not “innocents vs criminals” as you seem to imply.
Check with your friend as I do with my kids.
Accident and mistakes are understandable.
Potter is in prison.
The training as described in the article doesn’t lead to “mistakes”. It leads to the intentional and constant use of violence against people regardless of their guilt. And death is inevitable when abuse of violence is the norm.
The article intentionally didn’t describe the training, it described the trainer. Most people can’t get involved in an online political discussion without eventually making an extremist remark at some point so I won’t judge one way or another if he is indeed an extremist.
This is what Richard Whitehead teaches.
Forensic Statement Analysis ~ Deception Detection » Law Enforcement Learning
Sadly, this is barely an exaggeration.
Qualified Immunity is actually used in recruitment ads as a perk of the job.
Police Recruiting Ad Lists "Qualified Immunity" as "Unique [Job] Benefit" (reason.com)
While described as inappropriate by Chief Allen Aldenberg of the Manchester PD it shows just how desperate recruitment has become. That occurred before officer Potter was sent away to prison. Since then, despite added perks, signing bonuses, and lowered standards, recruitment has become even more difficult.
Just a few examples.
Why police forces are struggling to recruit and keep officers - CNN
Police agencies face staffing crisis amid uptick in violent crime (newsnationnow.com)
(10) The Spotlight: Police recruiting wars as Seattle faces looming public safety crisis - YouTube
There are all types of bigots, and this echo chamber is just another example. Have any of you been on a ride-along or even talked to a police officer about their job? Being an Anonymous Coward can be time consuming. Instead of demonizing, why not spend a little bit of that time to get to know a human being who is a police officer?
A majority of law enforcement officers are white males. And that’s why they welcome training from white males who believe white males are still the best people this country has to offer.
Police officers | Data USA
Police departments are nearly as racially diverse as the general population with both Black and White officers being slightly over represented. The one group that shows the most disparity is Asian. My daughter in law is half Asian, but identified as mixed race.
Over the last 18 months there has been an exodus of police officers (mostly white) so white officers might now be less than the percentage of whites in the US.
If cops want to be coddled by white extremists and bigots who encourage their “us vs. them” beliefs, they can own it.
Cops see both the victim and the perpetrators’ of crime so there is an “us vs. them” mentality, but not the one you’ve imagined.
Training isn’t uniform throughout the country because of cost and need. After passing background checks, interviews and lie detector tests this is the training they get at my son’s department.
• Officer Safety
• De-escalation training
• Police Officer Ethics
• Cultural Diversity/Discrimination
• Procedural Justice/Implicit Bias Training
• Laws Pertaining to Search and Seizure
• Criminal Investigations
• Emergency Vehicle Driving
• Vehicle Car Stops
• Report Writing
• Crime Scene Management
• Principled Policing in the Community
• Firearms Training
• Accident Investigation
• Building Searches
• Less-Than-Lethal Force Options
• Defensive Tactics
• Arrest and Control Techniques
• Radio Communication Codes
• Recognition of Illegal Substances and Narcotics
• Recognition of Under the Influence
• Evidence Collection
• Juvenile Laws
And then you start Field Training
And even if they make it through all that; somewhere, somehow, sometime in the next 25 to 30 years of their career they might make a mistake that costs them or someone else their life.
Clearly enough did, and that’s how you get people like Chauvin thinking that they’d be able to escape consequence because the system you defend would have protected him.
The key word there is “did”.
The Spotlight: Police recruiting wars as Seattle faces looming public safety crisis (q13fox.com)
Aggressive recruitment, hiring critical for Portland PD to fill vacancies, report says (police1.com)
I could add dozens of more cities.
You’re the one cheering on the leavers and getting angry at Chauvin getting punished over the acts he did. You’re the equivalent of the bully who punches another student in the stomach, and threatens to punch his victim even harder if his actions are reported to the teacher. Bullies like you dish it out all the time, but look at the tantrums you throw when you risk being mildly inconvenienced.
Not cheering anything, just explaining the obvious and the foreseeable results. You view cops as Chauvins, criminals, etc. so why aren’t you happy they are leaving? You’re getting what you want, you’ve won the argument. ACAB (all cops are bad)! Why would anyone want to be bad? Why would anyone want to be a cop?
The police force generally don’t think much of people who can think for themselves, or those less willing to act on biases. Plenty of training testimony indicates this. It’s not surprising the Chauvins regularly slip through the cracks when you validate them.
So with that perception of the police can you understand why nobody wants to be a cop anymore?
If you’re so desperate to go back to the golden age you think things were why don’t you sign up? Put a few bullets in the woke youngsters you hate so much.
As a 70 year old Vietnam era veteran, they probably won’t take me plus I’ve already put my life on the line for the ungrateful once before. You (who are obviously anti-police) and my son (who is a cop) have both stated that regardless of my actions as a cop I would be seen as a Chauvin, a racist, a bully, and a criminal. So why would I or anyone sign up. You certainly wouldn’t and for the same reason.
Nah, you’ve already insisted that you think Biden is going to ruin the country. You think it’s going to be some combination of Democrats and “woke” millennials and judges, because God forbid anyone blame trigger happy cops who fear for their life from a naked fleeing man.
Biden’s not running the country. Nobody is. We went from the best economy in my lifetime to the worst economy in my lifetime in less than 18 months.
Biden took a divided country and made it more divided. Between mandatory vaccinations and abortions, Americans don’t know if they have control of their bodies or not. The Democratic Party isn’t even ran by Democrats. It’s made up of Socialist, Progressives, liberals and Democrats that don’t want the same thing. Biden is clueless as to who he represents.
Americans don’t know whether to judge someone by the color of their skin, the content of their character or their preferred pronoun.
The “Woke” want to control the country, yet they can’t tell the difference between male and female. They want “Free Speech” but are against dissenting voices being heard. They are incapable of raising or even defining a normal healthy child yet they want unobstructed control our children. They want alternatives to policing yet are clueless on how to achieve it. They want the police restrained and then blame guns for our cities turning into shooting galleries and social inequities for them becoming crime ridden.
We don’t know if the news we are being bombarded with is misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, corporate media, mainstream media, left-wing bias, or right-wing bias. All we know is that it’s partisan bullshit and completely different depending on what channel you’re watching.
Biden gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban. The Taliban announced today that all women must wear Burkas in public. So much for supporting a woman's right to choose.
Putin saw an opportunity of a lifetime with a feeble minded President in the Whitehouse. If it wasn’t for the new leader of the Free World (Zelensky) and the Ukrainian people we would be facing a reconstituted Soviet Union. Despite that, Biden believes the Americans that didn’t vote for him are the “real danger” and that is the “real danger”.
Again, tracking your comments isn’t difficult.
I'm glad, that's why I added some more.
Jerks, assholes and bullies don’t tend to see themselves as jerks, assholes or bullies. The ones who freely admit to being jerks, assholes or bullies don’t usually believe that they’re at risk of being caught, or suffering the consequences of their actions.
You’re probably right that cops don’t see themselves as Chauvin. They’ll want to distance themselves from the weak link in the chain. But that’s a meaningless distinction. All it takes is a bunch of cops raiding a medical marijuana facility, or some off-color racist jokes expressed after a cop fails to realize his bodycam wasn’t turned off, for their true colors to be revealed.
You must be the one writing the police recruitment pamphlets because very few people are showing up. Of those that do, many can’t pass the background check and most don’t complete the training. Cities are getting desperate, lowering the standards and raising the signing bonuses. Maybe they’ll lower them enough to accept an “Anonymous Coward”.
This much, we know. Because a quick Google search on this site shows that you were making the same arguments a year back when Derek Chauvin was arrested. You demonstrated the same righteous anger about the fact that Chauvin was arrested.
Apparently you don’t know how to use Google because I never signed on to Techdirt until September of 21. Regardless, I have been saying cops would be leaving after having talked with my son and daughter-in-law and that was more than a year ago.
You keep insisting that you think Chauvin is a bad cop. Yet when actions are taken to remedy that, or give him the penalties permitted under the law, while tempered by limits and due process, you rant, rave, and scream that all of this will have consequences downstream if a single hair on Chauvin’s head is infringed upon.
What I keep insisting is that not “All Cops Are Chauvin” yet many if not most people in this forum think otherwise. Potter wasn’t Chauvin, Rolfe wasn’t, and the 19 cops in Austin Texas weren’t, nor are the vast, vast majority of cops. For you or anybody to lump them all together, demonize and demand collective punishment, you have contributed to the crisis in crime and policing in this country.
Techdirt has tracked enough police pleas that in summary said “If you don’t allow us to rough up suspects, make no-knock warrants, or kill people without consequence, everything will go to hell.” Believe me, we’ve been hearing this tripe from the police for years.
Things are going to hell and they are going to get worse before they get better.
A distinction without a meaningful difference.
Huge difference. If they decided to remain yet refused to do their jobs that would be “taking their ball and going home”. Deciding to get out of policing either by retirement, resigning, or transferring to a less dangerous position would be “just going home”.
“No officer; I never threatened to kill him. I just said it’s a foreseeable reaction if I did.”
A reminder that the “foreseeable reaction” in this case is that police would stop doing their jobs (with the expectation that this would cause great harm to the community they are supposed to protect), all because people were celebrating the fact that a cop who murdered one of them got convicted of murdering someone. Exactly how is that a “foreseeable reaction” and not a threat (implied or otherwise)?
Don’t forget demonstrators throwing rocks, bottles and shit at them. Cities burning and looted and even as they are trying to stop that they are being blamed for causing it. Politicians and DAs targeting them for political gain. School officials demonizing them to their own children. The streets have become far more dangerous. Officers tested, filmed and scrutinized at every stop like never before. With every officer that leaves and is not replaced the stress increases on those that remain. Cities and police departments canceling vacations and demanding officers work overtime to fill the void.
If Chauvin had been acquitted the above conditions would have been worse but that doesn’t change the fact that the job has become more dangerous, overwhelming, unrewarding, unfulfilling and demoralizing. Not something you want to sign up for or continue doing. So their leaving is not a threat, but a reasonable and foreseeable reaction.
“If you celebrate the conviction of a cop who killed one of you, we’ll take our ball, go home, and tell you to go fuck yourselves.” No, davec, you’ve never implied any threats at all. You keep telling yourself that.
I never said they would take the ball and go home. You get to keep the ball, they’re just going to go home. It was never a threat, just a foreseeable reaction.
BTW I have been saying that for more than a year, because that is what they have been saying. You just didn’t care enough to listen to them.