Ohio Court Says Calling Cincinnati Police Officer Ryan Olthaus A Racist Is Protected Speech

from the another-law-a-cop-can't-comprehend dept

There are lots of things you can call veteran Cincinnati police officer Ryan Olthaus. Some people called him a racist, after he appeared to flash the “ok” sign (something associated with [but not limited to] white supremacists) at anti-police violence protesters.

You can also call him a coward. After all, he couldn’t be bothered to use his own name when suing Facebook users for calling him a racist. Instead, he spent several months trying to keep his own name out of his own litigation. He first secured an extremely unconstitutional temporary restraining order that forbade the defendants from publishing his real name on social media.

Then he managed to talk the court into allowing him to proceed with his lawsuit anonymously, claiming that anonymity was probably the only way to prevent him from being murdered or whatever by internet users. I mean, that’s what his lawyer argued when trying to prevent the restraining order from being lifted.

[Defendants] make this claim even though the potential harm to the officer and his family from the publication of his personal information, occasioned by the protestors’ own baseless and malicious social media posts, far outweighs any burden from the limited restriction on doxing him.

And whatever this is…

Recent FBI data show upticks in police officer killings during years when there have been major incidents of civil unrest across the country.

This word salad managed to convince the lower court, but Officer Ryan Olthaus’s victory was short-lived. In early 2022, the Ohio Supreme Court said Olthaus needed to use his real name if he wanted to move forward with his libel lawsuit.

Roughly two years later, Ryan Olthaus, police officer and alleged racist, has suffered another loss. According to the Ohio Appeals Court, calling Officer Ryan Olthaus a racist is just the First Amendment doing its job. (h/t Volokh Conspiracy and Eugene Volokh in particular, who filed a brief arguing against Olthaus’s anonymity request)

The court [PDF] says that this is what it’s here for: to allow people to seek redress for their grievances. And yes, libel is not protected by the First Amendment. But this isn’t libel, it’s the other thing: protected opinion.

Faced with public accusations that he is a “white supremacist” who flashed a “white power” hand sign at a demonstration, plaintiff-appellant Ryan Olthaus, a Cincinnati police officer, sought redress through defamation law and several related causes of action. But, as justifiably aggrieved by defendants’ assertions as he may feel, defamation law does not allow for recovery when the statements in question constitute opinions (rather than false statements of fact), nor without a showing of actual malice by a public official.

What’s that thing people like Officer Olthaus (assuming he is the sort of bigot he appears to be) are often heard saying? Oh, yeah. “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” It may suck to be called a racist by Facebook users. It certainly sucks if you aren’t actually a racist. But if you give people the impression you might be a bit of a bigot (even unintentionally), they’re going to form opinions. And the First Amendment (along with Ohio’s own constitution) protects statements of opinion.

This appeal was handled poorly by Olthaus and his legal rep. Given the facts of the case, it would have been impossible to do it well, especially after having wasted time and money on unconstitutional restraining orders and trying to keep his name out of the papers (court and otherwise).

Rather than address the grounds stated in the lower court’s dismissal of his lawsuit, Olthaus decided to make the absurd claim that opinions stated during the heat of nationwide protests against police violence were somehow more harmful than normal opinions and, accordingly, less protected by the First Amendment.

Faced with the trial court’s dismissal of his defamation and related claims on the basis that Defendants’ statements were either true or matters of opinion, Officer Olthaus fails to directly address the trial court’s reasoning on appeal. Instead, he emphasizes the notice-pleading standard and the harm that Defendants’ statements occasioned, responding to the trial court’s reasoning only to assert that “[i]n the political atmosphere that existed at the time of the incident, Appellees’ statements rose above mere opinion when they were designed to personally attack and cause harm.” But this statement does not reflect the standard for recovery under Ohio defamation law. Tellingly, Officer Olthaus cites no case law to support this argument, does not suggest the trial court used the wrong legal standard in its decision, and does not assert that it misapplied any relevant case law. Rather, he broadly asserts that the trial court got it wrong and assures us that he could prove his point later in the litigation.

Yeah, that’s the substance of the arguments: if you guys would just let me litigate endlessly, I’m sure I could show that I’ve been defamed. My basis for these assertions are [CITATION NOT FOUND].

Likewise, he advances no substantive argument responding to the trial court’s conclusion that he failed to plead actual malice and that “[a]ctual malice cannot be established in this case.” He merely asserts that, “given the opportunity,” he could demonstrate the falsity of the assertions and Defendants’ reckless disregard for them. Again, he fails to advance any argument for how he would prove such a point, which ultimately rests on the trial court’s conclusions that statements of opinion cannot be made with actual malice and are not actionable in defamation.

This means Officer Ryan Olthaus must now have his arguments made by the state appeals court. The court goes the extra mile, perhaps if only to clearly demonstrate to the willfully obtuse cop how badly he’s lost this lawsuit.

In shutting Olthaus down, the appeals court makes it clear this lawsuit is not only bogus, but has been badly handled since day one, with the officer and his legal rep failing to do the very basic things they’re supposed to do when arguing in court. Common things, like citing relevant case law. Or, you know, using “actual malice” correctly.

Though the above conclusion suffices to affirm the trial court’s dismissal of the defamation claims, we further agree with the trial court that Officer Olthaus failed to sufficiently plead actual malice. In his complaint, he refers only to Defendants’ “malicious” conduct and “false” statements, avoiding both the phrase “actual malice” and the critical test from New York Times Co. v. Sullivan for public official defamation plaintiff…

[…]

Apart from failing to recite the required language, Officer Olthaus also fails to allege any facts showing that Defendants acted with actual malice. The closest he comes is in accusing Ms. White and Ms. Gilley of “falsely” accusing him of using a “white power” hand signal in their citizens’ complaints. Even generously construing his assertions as invoking the standard of “actual malice” and taking them as true, we agree with the trial court that this “fact” cannot suffice as pleading “actual malice” because the assertions are either true or statements of opinion. Officer Olthaus admits to making the gesture, so that fact is true, but he vigorously contests its meaning. But, as we indicated above, Defendants’ various assertions that Officer Olthaus is a “white supremacist” and that his gesture carried a racist meaning are fundamentally statements of opinion.

Yeah, this was never libel. And Olthaus should have known this. It’s clear he thought firing off a lawsuit would silence his online critics. When that didn’t work, he and his lawyer ran out of ideas and basically began winging it. At least Officer Ryan Olthaus, alleged racist, recognized the Streisand Effect would come for him following the filing of this lawsuit and made some moves to stave off that inevitability. Sure, these efforts failed almost immediately, but at least he tried.

Sometimes, bad things happen to good people when discussions go sideways on social media services. And, sometimes, stuff happens to Officer Ryan Olthaus. But no matter who’s filing the lawsuit, the law is still the law.

We recognize and appreciate Officer Olthaus’ point that the allegations of white supremacy were incredibly damaging to him, personally and professionally. Social media has the capacity to ruin lives with the click of a button, but courts do not exist to referee debates on those platforms, nor could we do so consistent with the First Amendment and the Ohio Constitution.

Olthaus loses again. He’s out whatever money he’s spent on this and none of this has done anything to rehabilitate his reputation. Instead, all it’s done is hammer the point home that this officer in particular can’t handle being criticized by people with far less power than he has.

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Comments on “Ohio Court Says Calling Cincinnati Police Officer Ryan Olthaus A Racist Is Protected Speech”

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

People with power like to think their flaws are non-existent, or at least nowhere near as bad as the flaws of others. They believe any flaw is a weakness; they can’t have weaknesses if they want to be seen as powerful. Criticism points out those flaws. Ergo, people with power hate criticism because they see it as an attempt to weaken the power they hold.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Which Jesus? The socialist, brown immigrant who existed in reality or the white guy that people in a country that didn’t exist until nearly 2 millennia after he died decided to worship?

Apparently, all of the above and his dog too. I was going to say I haven’t the foggiest, but fog has also been linked to racism.

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Koby (profile) says:

Ahead Of The Curve

The other day, we saw how a bill was introduced in Florida regarding per se defamation. We now see the need for that type of legislation. Given the financial and reputational damage that these flimsy accusations can cause, it was a highly intelligent move. Cries of racism are the modern day equivalent of pulling the fire alarm at a crowded venue. It’s not just an opinion.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Not wanting others to read an opinion that you don’t agree with is like burning a book.

Anyone who wants to read one of your flagged dumbshit comments can do that by clicking a single link. I can’t stop them from doing that any more than I can stop you from posting your dumbshit comments. The flagging system is akin to a content warning: “Behind this link is some dumb fucking bullshit⁠—read it at your own peril.”

Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: facts in the courts

If it can be disproven, then it’s not a fact.

Not quite. A fact is something amenable to proof. Examples:
[a] It rained yesterday
[b] Elon has seven fingers on his left hand

I can objectively determine whether it rained,and I can count the fingers. The first fact might be true, the second might not, but the examples are statements of fact.

Compare opinion:
[c] it was nice out yesterday
[d] he is a very fine person

Nice will depend on the viewer and whether he wanted to play golf, and fine may depend on your view of neo-nazis. Neither of these examples is amenable to proof, so they are opinion rather than fact.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Plenty of things are not racist, you are not one of them obviously.

Really? I have yet to find something that hasn’t been linked to racism.

Rocks
Can a Rock Be Racist? — Joy in Minnesota
https://www.joyinminnesota.com/home/can-a-rock-be-racist
God
Campus Reform | ‘Is God a White Supremacist?’ course advertised at Swarthmore College
https://www.campusreform.org/article/is-god-a-white-supremacist-course-advertised-at-swarthmore-college/15980
Jesus
Did the Canaanite woman teach Jesus not to be racist in Matt 15? | Psephizo
https://www.psephizo.com/biblical-studies/did-the-canaanite-woman-teach-jesus-not-to-be-racist-in-matt-15/
The Sun
Sunshine, fertility and racial disparities – PubMed (nih.gov)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30665057/
Dogs
Can Dogs Be Racist? | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201909/can-dogs-be-racist
Cats
Real problem and not making this up. I think my ca… | Fishbowl (fishbowlapp.com)
https://www.fishbowlapp.com/post/real-problem-and-not-making-this-up-i-think-my-cat-is-racist-towards-white-ppl-in-the-last-year-she-only-hisses-at-my-white-friends

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“Really? I have yet to find something that hasn’t been linked to racism.”

Oh look that’s amazing .. you’ve successfully shown there are crazy people everywhere you look. Why are they expressing crazy shit, is it hyperbole, sarcasm or could it be satire? Nah, these are all serious attempts at something .. don’t know what but it’s something.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Oh look that’s amazing .. you’ve successfully shown there are crazy people everywhere you look. Why are they expressing crazy shit, is it hyperbole, sarcasm or could it be satire? Nah, these are all serious attempts at something .. don’t know what but it’s something.

Welcome to the world of Woke where you are racist if you don’t admit you are racist.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Welcome to the world of Republicans, whose fear-based belief system makes them label everything “woke” and act like everyone is trying to make everything “racist” so they can avoid examining their own behavior, deep-diving into their actual beliefs, and having tough conversations about racism with literally anyone (but especially people of color).

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Welcome to the world of Republicans, whose fear-based belief system makes them label everything “woke” and act like everyone is trying to make everything “racist” so they can avoid examining their own behavior, deep-diving into their actual beliefs, and having tough conversations about racism with literally anyone (but especially people of color).

So, does that make them racist? I know they are racist if they do see race and they are racist if they don’t see race. They are racist if they don’t understand they are racist even if their racism is unconscious. The person who sees racism everywhere (including rocks, dogs, the sun, God, etc.) is somehow less racist than someone who doesn’t see race at all or sees it as irrelevant.

From that framework any conversation about race is going to be a “tough” one.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I live in what some people would call an effectively “race-blind” community (HAH).

There’s still rampant, institutionalized racism, even in the halls of the government, even if the bureaucracy makes a good PR show of not being racist.

And you can’t bring the fucking issue up.

So, davec, go take a fucking long walk off a short pier.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

I live in what some people would call an effectively “race-blind” community (HAH).
There’s still rampant, institutionalized racism, even in the halls of the government, even if the bureaucracy makes a good PR show of not being racist.
And you can’t bring the fucking issue up.
So, davec, go take a fucking long walk off a short pier.

The problem is I can not not bring the fucking issue up. Racism is everywhere and connected to everything. It’s in your community, the halls of government, even the sky.
The Sky is Racist?. The NAACP officially condemned the sky… | by Mark Johnson | Medium
https://remarksbymark.medium.com/the-sky-is-racist-8829b8f0f5b4

Even googling “pier” gave me hundreds of articles about Piers Morgan and racism.

BTW Anonymous Cowards are racist.

(31) Anonymous Cowards – Online Abuse Needs to Stop | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/anonymous-cowards-online-abuse-needs-stop-russell-haworth/

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9 'This link supports my claim!' 'It doesn't actually.' 'You're not supposed to read it!'

Now why would they do that, the title sounds like it supports them so why go through all the trouble to actually see if it does when they can just post the link and hope that no-one calls their bluff by reading it?

If it works for maskhole nurgle cultists it will certainly work for a totally-not-a-racist like them.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Racism is everywhere and connected to everything. It’s in your community, the halls of government, even the sky.
The Sky is Racist?. The NAACP officially condemned the sky… | by Mark Johnson | Medium

If you had actually read the article, you’d see that it was very clearly satire. And no, not because “It’s obviously satire when it’s so absurd”; it’s because the last sentence literally says: “This article is satire.”

Even googling “pier” gave me hundreds of articles about Piers Morgan and racism.

I’m not going to argue about whether or not Piers is racist. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was, but I don’t watch him often enough to know for sure. He is an elitist, though, and can be sexist sometimes as well.

You act as though people should be thinking that no one in their right minds would seriously call Piers a racist, but I don’t see why. I have no idea why you’re bringing him up, specifically. So a lot of people call him a racist; so what?

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You act as though people should be thinking that no one in their right minds would seriously call Piers a racist, but I don’t see why. I have no idea why you’re bringing him up, specifically. So a lot of people call him a racist; so what?

It is not about Piers Morgan, whales, rocks or Jesus. It is about EVERYTHING being linked to racism. Whether the article is satire, serious or scientific someone has attempted to link it or label it racist.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

That it’s satire proves the exact opposite of what you’re trying to prove. No one has actually attempted to link the sky to or label it as racist. That’s how satire works.

And the thing is that pointing to a thing being called racist when it wouldn’t be surprising if it was actually racist doesn’t help establish that everything is being called racist.

Frankly, I can’t think of any reason why I should care if you can only say that everything is being called racist if you include satire, nor why I should care if people who very well could be racist are being called racist if there is good cause for it. Any point that is actually supported by your examples is not one that actually matters.

Basically, even if—for the sake of argument—I accept Piers Morgan being called racist by a bunch of people is true, and accept that—if we include satire—everyone and everything has been linked to or been called “racist” in some way at least once, why should I care? What is the point you’re attempting to make by such a claim?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

Or, in the very rare case that davec actually has an article that proves his “point”:

Timecube Guy existed, and very few people took his ramblings and assault on the eyes seriously.

If, on the offchance people actually did link anything to racism, they’re extremely unserious people to begin with.

davec hates facts so much that he becomes a full-blown brownshirt if you actually him him with the facts, btw. I mean, he’s here simply because Derek Chauvin was a racist shitbag who apparently needed to be defended…

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

You don’t “get” to bring it up because you’ve not only defended racist shitbag police officers, BUT ALSO RACIST POLICIES AND DEFENDED THE INSURRECTIONIST IN CHIEF, DONALD TRUMP. But you will anyway because none of you Nazis will care.

I don’t get to bring it up in my COUNTRY, because there’s A NON-ZERO CHANCE, ALBEIT LOW, THAT I WILL EITHER GET ARRESTED OR SUED BY THE GOVERNMENT FOR MENTIONING THE TOPIC.

Our fucking situations are not the same and any association to you Nazi filth makes me sick and angry.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You don’t “get” to bring it up because you’ve not only defended racist shitbag police officers, BUT ALSO RACIST POLICIES AND DEFENDED THE INSURRECTIONIST IN CHIEF, DONALD TRUMP. But you will anyway because none of you Nazis will care.
I don’t get to bring it up in my COUNTRY, because there’s A NON-ZERO CHANCE, ALBEIT LOW, THAT I WILL EITHER GET ARRESTED OR SUED BY THE GOVERNMENT FOR MENTIONING THE TOPIC.
Our fucking situations are not the same and any association to you Nazi filth makes me sick and angry.

I suppose you are the Anonymous Chickenshit from Singapore (it’s hard to tell you guys apart). If you are frightened of your country our southern border is wide open. Walk right in and claim asylum. Oh yeah, that’s right. You would be walking into a country where all the police officers are racist shitbags. What a conundrum. Just stay where you’re at.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

You’re just jealous because people more fabulous than you are going to be writing history from now on, davec.

Yes, the assfuckers are taking over. The Gen Zs, the Gen Alphas, the non-binaries, the furries, we’re going to define the new world narrative into something that’s far less hateful than the world that exists in your fevered imagination.

I recommend you start doing clenching exercises, it’s going to help make the initial insertion less painful on your old man tuckus.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Using that study of skin pigmentations effect on Vitamin D uptake and it’s impact on fertility as a suggestion that people call the sun racist might be the single most despicable thing you’ve done. And that’s in a long history of racist shit.

Of course, it’s racist. Find me something that hasn’t been linked to racism and I will gladly comment on that. Look long and hard because I haven’t found anything. Did you know that whales are racist?

Are whales racist? – Chris Blattman (accessdomain.com)
https://af4.cf3.mwp.accessdomain.com/blog/2010/06/28/are-whales-racist/
THE WHITENESS OF “THE WHALE” on JSTOR
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44329156

BTW Diseases that impact Blacks more than Whites was used in one article to prove God is a White Racist.
God Is a White Racist on JSTOR
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5325/jafrireli.3.4.0443

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Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4 So. Fucking. Dumb.

For FUCKS sake, please tell me you’re being sarcastic here. For the love of all that is holy, please tell me you’re just trolling the libs, and that you don’t really believe what you’re writing. becasue if not, you might be one of the dumbest motherfuckers I’ve run across in a looooong time.

First, you keep stating things are racist and linking to them without explaining how they are racist. And when you look at it, it’s nothing of the sort. In fact, your very first link says “no, not really but it makes a good headline”. Fuck, that’s dumb.

Your second link is to discussion about the the book “The Whale:. Not fucking whales themselves, you cockwomble.

And the last one, well fuck dude, there’s nothing actually there but a headline. And since you’ve shown you can’t be fucking bothered to read things before you link to them (see above), I’m just going to assume it’s bullshit as well.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

For FUCKS sake, please tell me you’re being sarcastic here.

I don’t think for one second that everything is racist. I was initially shocked when someone wrote an article about dogs being racist. Then an article about cats being racist and apples are a racist term for Native Americans. Etc., etc. etc. etc . . . . . . . every time I checked, whatever it was, someone linked it to racism.

You didn’t like the links I posted about whales being racist—to me the whole idea is stupid, but someone wrote an article linking whales to racism or a racist act. Most are too idiotic to read so I don’t.

But here you might like these better. Warning—if you are offended by people referring to Orcas as Blackfish and Killer Whales, you may not want to continue.

[Mythbusters] White Makes Right When It Comes to Whaling | JAPAN Forward (japan-forward.com)
https://japan-forward.com/mythbusters-white-makes-right-when-it-comes-to-whaling/

jeff-cocci-persistance-in-the-north-pacificmakah.docx (live.com)
https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ursinus.edu%2Flive%2Ffiles%2F4516-jeff-cocci-persistance-in-the-north-pacificmakah&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

No racism against world’s first white orca – Metro US
https://www.metro.us/no-racism-against-worlds-first-white-orca/

what is the whale whale racism comment mean|TikTok Search
https://www.tiktok.com/@gloktimusprime/video/7267545393792044330
(1) Is it racist to boo Japanese foreign exchange students and chant ‘stop killing whales’? – Quora
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-racist-to-boo-Japanese-foreign-exchange-students-and-chant-stop-killing-whales

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

You didn’t like the links I posted about whales being racist

Gonna quote Mamba here:

[Y]our very first link says “no, not really but it makes a good headline”. Fuck, that’s dumb.

Your second link is to discussion about the the book “The Whale[”]. Not fucking whales themselves, you cockwomble.

In your fevered quest to prove that everyone else but you is a racist, you not only didn’t read the articles, you misunderstood one of the headlines. You’re either intentionally ignoring your own fuck-up here to declare how not-mad you are at being called a racist or suffering from some sort of intellectual disability. I’m not sure which would be worse for you at this point.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

In your fevered quest to prove that everyone else but you is a racist, you not only didn’t read the articles, you misunderstood one of the headlines. You’re either intentionally ignoring your own fuck-up here to declare how not-mad you are at being called a racist or suffering from some sort of intellectual disability. I’m not sure which would be worse for you at this point.

I’ve always said “if you think everything is about race, you’re probably a racist”. Yet somehow people claim not to be racist by linking everything to race. Dogs, cats, God, Jesus, and yes even whales. Do you know what Blackfishing is? I had to look it up.

Blackfishing is the act of someone who is not Black pretending to be Black with the use of methods such as makeup, tanning, or technology like filters and Photoshop. Regardless of the intent behind blackfishing, doing it can have negative mental health effects on Black people.

So when someone made a documentary about Orcas and referred to them as “Blackfish” and “Killer” whales it was now a microaggression intended to hurt Black people. It’s exhausting.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

These are still just as fucking dumb as before. Apple is a term American Indians use as a slur for their peers.

The apple was an apple until someone linked it to racism. Same as the OK hand jester was just a gesture to let people know “I’m ok” or “it’s ok” until someone linked it racism. Now we have all these racist scuba divers and construction workers flashing White Power signs in need of DEI.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Most people who find themselves in a hole wouldn’t make the hole bigger. You demand to be handed a shovel so you can keep digging.

If you bring up race, it’s because you are a racist. If you avoid talking about race, it is because you are a racist. If you don’t understand that it is because you are a racist. The fact that I’m not even talking about race, I’m talking about everything being linked to racism proves what? Go ahead and say it. Put me in the same box with Jesus.

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Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

The apple is still a fucking apple, you twit. Your lily white ass calling and an American Indian an Apple is racist you stupid fuck. Context, you complete douche bag, is the point. In fact, there’s a lot of things you can call someone that makes it racist, without anyone one of the words themselves being racist.

The problem you have is that you are racist, but can’t handle it when people call you on it. Apparently a massive one, as it seems people are calling you out on it all the time. So instead of looking at the context, which everyone who is actually discussing the use of these symbols/gestures/words, you construct the dumbest possible straw man. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is suggesting people who use the OK gesture as a form of established non verbal communication, to communicate they are in fact OK, or just in general use, are racist. People are pointing out that there is an ESTABLISHED use of the symbol to communicate their membership within a racist group. And they rely on idiots like you believing that

But, in typical fashion, you have zero introspection, curiosity, or an ounce of shame so you boomer the fuck out of it and blame other people. But you’re also fucking lazy (or genuinely have a reading disability), and continue to use things to support you that are either irreverent or directly contradict your main point.

TLDR: You’re a dumb, lazy, ignorant, racists. And it’s obvious to everyone that isn’t in your little camp.

As for you being compared to Jesus, perhaps you should consider this: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

The apple is still a fucking apple, you twit.

I couldn’t give a rats ass whether you think I’m a racist or not. I didn’t write these fucking stories, some Woke asshole much like you who sees racism in rocks, trees, dogs and even God wrote them. A fucking apple is a fucking apple until some asshole like you gives it a racist meaning or claims it symbolizes racist intent.

Food injustice has deep roots: let’s start with America’s apple pie | Food | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/01/food-injustice-has-deep-roots-lets-start-with-americas-apple-pie

Is apple pie racist? Column claiming dish has colonial roots sparks debate | The Independent (the-independent.com)
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/apple-pie-racism-guardian-b1862610.html

You have your definition of a racist and I have mine. If you think everything is about race, then you are probably a racist. If you have to question whether your dog is a racist or even if God is, then you are probably a racist.

Can Dogs Be Racist? | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201909/can-dogs-be-racist
Is God a Racist? Theology, Race, and Divine Justice – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dSTqYDlOZI

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

I couldn’t give a rats ass whether you think I’m a racist or not

Sure you don’t, buddy. You clearly don’t give a rat’s ass about something that you spend hundreds of hours and comments on this site for. That’s such a lack of caring that you have to waste so much of your retirement years, lip trembling, fingers shaking, spittle dribbling just to mash out a response on your cellphone.

Realistically, I don’t think anyone needs to call you a racist. You pissing and moaning about white cops getting punished for asphyxiating people of color is all any decent person needs to be sufficiently informed.

You ain’t in the same box as Jesus, you’re in the same box as Derek Chauvin. Which frankly for you would be high praise, but it appears socially inconvenient so you have to act angry about facing the consequences of your actions.

Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10 You care So. Fucking. Much.

I couldn’t give a rats ass whether you think I’m a racist or not.

You care so fucking badly, we can taste it. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t lie about the links you’re posting. All of us can read, and we all know that nobody is calling apple pie, dogs, or God racist. If you actually read them, you’d see that as well.

But you’re a fucking racist moron. So you’re going to post again with some inane drivel and attempt to support with links to articles that underscore your sophomoric understanding of…well…society.

I’m going to ask you a question. If I called you a pig, would that mean that pigs now hate cops? Or that everyone that uses the word hates cops? Because that’s what you’re arguing. That pigs hate cops. Which is, I hope you can see, in-fucking-sane.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

You care so fucking badly, we can taste it. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t lie about the links you’re posting. All of us can read, and we all know that nobody is calling apple pie, dogs, or God racist. If you actually read them, you’d see that as well.

Lets take them one at a time.

God is a White Racist

Black theology wasn’t embraced by the mainstream black church, and it was considered seditious, possibly heretical by white theologians. Secularists thought it was an incomplete rehash of Marxism. In the ’70s, one man, William R. Jones, took the radicalism of black theology to a faith impasse. Jones’s book Is God a White Racist? suggested a negative approach to theology, an analysis of God as if he were man. “Until the alleged negative elements are appropriately reconciled with the alleged benevolence of God,” Jones wrote, “His goodness remains an open question.” There is an endlessly useful concept within, which Jones calls “divine racism.” The idea is that the benevolence or the wrath of God corresponds to ethnic lines in America. And in turn, an ethnic God practices tribalism. “Ethnic suffering does not strike quickly and then leave after a short and terrible siege,” he wrote. “Instead, it extends over long historical eras.”

Jesus was a racist

Why Do Some People Think Jesus Was a Racist? | Christianity Today
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/july-august/jesus-racism-syrophoenician-woman-bread-dogs.html

Every few months, it seems, a new article pops up claiming that Jesus was racist.
The claim is based on the story of Jesus healing the daughter of a Syrophoenician woman (Matt. 15:21–28; Mark 7:24–30). When the woman asks Jesus to heal her demon-possessed daughter, he says, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” The woman responds, “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table,” at which point Jesus commends her faith and heals her daughter instantly. Until now, the argument goes, Jesus has been racist, dismissing foreign people as “dogs.” Supposedly, this encounter shows him the error of his ways.

Dogs are racist

Systemic Racism In The Dog Community – K9 Turbo Training
https://k9turbotraining.com/systemic-racism-in-the-dog-community/
Reframing “Can Dogs Be Racist” Into a More Scientific Conversation – An Interview (youtube.com)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edeBHO3ZyTA

Apples racist?

If you exclude a thousand articles about Apple or the term “As American as Apple Pie” being racist then there are a few stories about the term Apple being racist like Oreo, and coconut.

Apple: (Skin to the Core) by Eric Gansworth / Birchark Books & Native Arts – Birchbark Books
https://birchbarkbooks.com/products/apple-skin-to-the-core

Eric Gansworth is telling his story in Apple (Skin to the Core). The story of his family, of Onondaga among Tuscaroras, of Native folks everywhere. From the horrible legacy of the government boarding schools, to a boy watching his siblings leave and return and leave again, to a young man fighting to be an artist who balances multiple worlds.
Eric shatters that slur and reclaims it in verse and prose and imagery that truly lives up to the word heartbreaking.

Let me know if you can find something not linked to race.

I’m going to ask you a question. If I called you a pig, would that mean that pigs now hate cops?

WTF?

If you called me a lily-white pig that would probably be racist. Or if you referred to “pigs with guns” would indicate you hate cops. Why? Because someone made the connection between cops and pigs. If you said elks with guns there would be no connection to cops.

A Brief History of the Word Pig as Slang for Police — NOISE (noiseomaha.com)
https://www.noiseomaha.com/resources/2021/7/1/a-brief-history-of-the-word-pig-as-slang-for-police

Or that everyone that uses the word hates cops?

Not everyone, but often the link is clear.

Flashback: Al Sharpton Screaming At A Crowd To ‘Off The Pigs’ And ‘Crackers’ (congress.gov)
https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109952/documents/HHRG-116-JU00-20190919-SD026.pdf

Because that’s what you’re arguing. That pigs hate cops. Which is, I hope you can see, in-fucking-sane.

That is not what I’m arguing but it differently sounds insane.

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davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

Dude, you’ve been arguing that people think apples⁠—not tech devices, but actual non-sentient fruits⁠—are racist. You need help.

I have been arguing that people have LINKED everything to racism.

I will confess that I have googled is [noun] racist to find something that hasn’t been linked to racism. As yet I haven’t found it. Maybe never will so I generally take the best headline and paste the link.

The fact that I can ask such an absurd question as “are birds racist” and get hundreds of responses like this just shows how abscessed with race we are.

Los Angeles birds are racist, apparently – Washington Examiner
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2582449/los-angeles-birds-are-racist-apparently/

From the article in case you don’t want to follow the link.

Left-wing media will do whatever it possibly can to find racism in anything. If a news story can provide some negative viewpoint, the Left will try to find a way to tie it with racism. The Los Angeles Times proved this point last week by claiming that the presence of birds in specific neighborhoods was, essentially, due to systemic racism.

Redlining and income inequality influence L.A.’s bird biodiversity – Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2023-10-11/historic-redlining-bird-biodiversity

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

Goddamn, you really are upset at someone so much as even implying that you could be even the slightest bit racist.

I wonder if Jesus was upset about being called a racist?

Please seek help.

Arguing against viewpoints I disagree with helps me. Hiding viewpoints that I disagree with doesn’t. You should stop your book burning and open up your mind.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14

In fact, when someone calls me an asshole, I don’t think there literally alling me a butthole. Based on the context, I’m assuming the mean something else.

Which is EXACTLY what we’re trying to point out. But I’m not the dip shit making the claim that words can’t have a different derogatory meanings if the also mean something else.

davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

Which is EXACTLY what we’re trying to point out. But I’m not the dip shit making the claim that words can’t have a different derogatory meanings if the also mean something else.

Well then there is no argument. We all believe in dehumanizing metaphors.

Pig is an animal but it is also a metaphor to dehumanize a police officer. It has no racial connotation.

Apple is a fruit but it is also a racist metaphor to dehumanize a Native American similar to the terms Oreo, Karen, banana, etc.

Apple, coconut, banana – racial slurs disguised as fruits – Victoria Times Colonist
https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/charla-huber-apple-coconut-banana-ndash-from-innocent-fruit-to-racial-insult-7094872

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

I couldn’t give a rats ass whether you think I’m a racist or not.

And yet, here you are, posting the first links you can find on Google searches of “is [noun] racist” (without taking the time to actually read the content of those links) all so you can proclaim how not-mad you are about being called a racist.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

And yet, here you are, posting the first links you can find on Google searches of “is [noun] racist” (without taking the time to actually read the content of those links) all so you can proclaim how not-mad you are about being called a racist.

At some point someone made a claim or asked a question linking whatever to racism and someone felt the need to write an article about it. Whether that article attempted to prove, disprove, satirize, or just analyze the issue, hundreds of articles were written. Did I read all of them—no. Will you read them all—no. Frankly I’m surprised you read the ones I posted.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Regarding the Guardian article, it’s s very sharp criticism of America and European colonialism. To call it “racist” when it criticizes rich, white Americans for screwing over the poor, the minorities and WOMEN is mere projection from our actual nazi supporter.

And the Psychology Today Article? I’lllet the aritcle’s final paragraph speak for itself.

So, to answer the question, “Is it possible that a dog can be racist?” the answer seems to be “Yes,” particularly if its caregiver has explicit or implicit negative attitudes toward other races and has limited experience interacting with them. In this case, as in many others, dogs, like children, are modeling their behavior after what they see in the actions of their caregivers. It seems that dogs watch us, read our emotions, and behave in a way which seems to be consistent with the way that we ourselves are behaving and reacting. This includes our attitudes toward individuals of other races.

You clearly don’t care to read your articles in an attempt to pretend you’re not racist when you’ve got a comment history saying otherwise.

So fucking get some help. You clearly need it. Injected directly into your fucking brain.

davec (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9 Now even dinosaurs are a micro-aggression.

Go read your articles and people might take you seriously. But after posting a bunch of links to articles that directly contradicts your very claims….you can’t possibly believe anyone thinks you’re anything but incompetent or a liar.

I answered this comment earlier, but “Stephen the book burner” hid it.

What I wrote was

I will confess that I have googled is [noun] racist to find something that hasn’t been linked to racism. As yet I haven’t found it. Maybe never will so I generally take the best headline and paste the link.

At the time I stated that even the sky was accused of being racist or at least linked to racism. When I googled is the Sky racist it came back with about a thousand hits that centered around Sky news being racist.

This one The Sky is Racist?. The NAACP officially condemned the sky… | by Mark Johnson | Medium

contained

”The NAACP, on the heels of its attack on Bed Bath and Beyond for selling black-colored Jack O’ Lanterns, officially condemned the sky on Tuesday night for dressing in blackface.”

which seemed to be about as ridiculous as most claims linking rocks, dogs, apples, etc. to racism. It turned out to be a satirical article. What I could have used is these non-satirical articles

This Is How Racist Your Air Is – Mother Jones
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/04/air-pollution-racial-disparities/

Even the Air is Racist. Environmental racism is harming Black… | by Jeffrey Kass | ZORA (medium.com)
https://zora.medium.com/even-the-air-is-racist-58dc34af94d4

For apple I could have used these articles

Apple, coconut, banana – racial slurs disguised as fruits – Victoria Times Colonist
https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/charla-huber-apple-coconut-banana-ndash-from-innocent-fruit-to-racial-insult-7094872
Overthinking It: Using Food As A Racial Metaphor : Code Switch : NPR
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/09/12/348008432/overthinking-it-using-food-as-a-racial-metaphor

No, I don’t think apples are racist, but the Woke have now linked not only apples to racism but everything else.

This is what I got when I asked if dinosaurs were racist.

Pachycephalosaurus: Jurassic World’s ‘racist’ dinosaur | Jurassic World | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/film/shortcuts/2015/jun/24/jurassic-world-dinosaur-accused-of-racism

Now even dinosaurs are a micro-aggression.

That One Guy (profile) says:

'No see I was flying the confederate flag to PROTEST racism...'

We recognize and appreciate Officer Olthaus’ point that the allegations of white supremacy were incredibly damaging to him, personally and professionally.

Here’s an idea that’s going to blow his mind: If being accused of being a racist is such a massive, career-destroying thing…

The closest he comes is in accusing Ms. White and Ms. Gilley of “falsely” accusing him of using a “white power” hand signal in their citizens’ complaints. […] Officer Olthaus admits to making the gesture, so that fact is true, but he vigorously contests its meaning.

… Maybe don’t use a hand sign linked to racists and then freak out when people read it as a racist sign.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

“Recent FBI data show upticks in police officer killings during years when there have been major incidents of civil unrest across the country.”

Well when police officers keep killing unarmed people there should be civil unrest as the courts never seem to give a flying fuck about holding the cops accountable instead allowing them to claim that they didn’t know that shooting an unarmed person in the back after they were cuffed MIGHT be a rights violation.

Kinetic Gothic says:

Re:

The staement is true, but there’s a lot of missing context.

So, yes when cops kill people, that can trigger, quite justified civil unrest…
That then leads to cops being injured or killed pretty much in one of three ways…
– Direct confrontations with protestors that esacalate.
– Left wing radicals who attack cops..

And the one that happens a lot but doesn’t get much press because doesn’t fit anybody’s structure in the Cops vs BLM narrative.

-Right wing radicals who attack cops in order to try and make the unrest -WORSE-

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Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: still waiting

They file a lot of stupid stuff in Tallahassee. An amount which might be surprising to an outsider actually becomes law. Locals have come to expect it, and occasionally note that Tallahassee is not all that far from Chattahoochee.

The courts generally do not agree that truth and opinion are defamation. That is why I asked for cases.

Things may get worse as older judges age out and the mix includes a greater proportion of DeSantis/Scott/Crist/Bush appointees.

(In fairness I should disclose that I have a defamation case pending with the Fla Supreme Court.)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Tell that to the racists and white supremacists who use it.

What you fail to take into consideration is that most racist and white supremacists aren’t big on brain-power, so them understanding that the origin of the sign was a prank doesn’t actually follow.

That also means when they now use it, it’s not a prank anymore which seems to be something that eludes you.

davec (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Tell that to the racists and white supremacists who use it.
What you fail to take into consideration is that most racist and white supremacists aren’t big on brain-power, so them understanding that the origin of the sign was a prank doesn’t actually follow.

So the people who aren’t white supremist started using the Okay hand gesture as a prank to somehow out real white supremist?

That also means when they now use it, it’s not a prank anymore which seems to be something that eludes you.

That’s brilliant!

But the question now is–when who uses it? We know the people who aren’t white supremist are using it and now the people that are white supremist are using it. People who haven’t a clue of any racial meaning are using it. So, you have at the very least tripled the number of white supremist.

They’ve made the OK hand gesture so terrifying that the ADL has listed it as a symbol of hate. Is that what you consider brain-power?

The ‘OK’ Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate

On Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights organization, added 36 symbols to its “Hate on Display” database including the index finger-to-thumb sign that in some corners of the Internet has become associated with white supremacy and the far right.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Nobody’s being called a racist just because they did the OK sign. It’s usually because they’re doing racist things and seem to think they’re clever by flashing that sign instead of getting their Klan hood out of the wash.

Maybe some signals are misinterpreted, but that’s the problem with Nazis trying to co-opt existing imagery to try and hide in plain sight. Wait behind the people who had the swastika as a peace symbol and people who use 14 or 88 for innocent purposes to issue your complaint.

davec (profile) says:

Re:

The whole ok being a racist white power symbol is completely bogus, I cant believe that the 4chan propaganda campaign succeeded to this day. Anyone that actually believes it is super gullible.

It seems to have fooled the ADL.
Oren Segal, director of the ADL’s Center on Extremism, told NPR that for years on fringe online message boards such as 4chan and 8chan, the “OK” sign has been deployed in memes and other images promoting hate. Given the number of white supremacists who have adopted it, he said it can now carry a nefarious message.

The ‘OK’ Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate

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