Mitch McConnell Using Section 230 Repeal As A Poison Pill To Avoid $2k Stimulus Checks

from the everything-is-stupid dept

As you likely know by now, President Trump is trying to use his last few weeks in office to use various levers of power remaining to him to make sure he fucks up the open internet. However, he also threw a wrench in the works of the long-overdue and way too small COVID relief package by saying that the checks to individuals should be $2,000 rather than $600. He's not wrong, but it was bizarre that his own White House was part of the negotiations that made sure the checks were smaller. It's almost as if the President and his own administration don't communicate very much.

House Democrats took up the cause, and pushed for the $2,000, and many House Republicans went along with it, recognizing how popular an idea this was. The problem, of course, is that Mitch McConnell has absolutely no interest in this at all. Earlier today, Mitch McConnell blocked the motion to vote on increasing the checks to $2,000. Afterwards, he announced, in the most awkward language possible, that he wants to link the raised stimulus to... Section 230 repeal and the made-up issue of "election fraud."

McConnell on CHECKS, SECT. 230, ELECTION FRAUD: "Those are the three important subjects the President has linked together. This week the Senate will begin a process to bring these three priorities into focus."

It's not difficult to figure out what's actually happening here. McConnell does not want the larger checks going out. He's spent months trying to limit the size of any stimulus plan. So, his plan now is to "link" the issue to things that he knows will not pass in an actual vote. Basically, Section 230 (and the made up issue of election fraud) are poison pills to kill the stimulus plan.

This is horrific on both sides of the equation: using Section 230 and the open internet as a pawn in this game, and his resistance to actually putting together a stimulus plan that helps Americans who have suffered from their own government's total mismanagement of the pandemic. It's difficult not to be cynical about politics when you have people like Mitch McConnell pulling the strings.

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Filed Under: covid, donald trump, election fraud, mitch mcconnell, poison pill, section 230, stimulus


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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:46am

    Welp, It’s the end of the Internet.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:34am

      Re:

      Unlikely its the end of the Internet seeing this is unlikely to pass in an actual vote tho they may try something like with the CASE Act.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:46am

        Re: Re:

        Got that right.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 1:51pm

        Already happened

        The CASE act was already attached to this lousy "stimulus", and Trump already signed it into law. This current tug of war is only happening because he's using an obscure federal law, I believe it was called the 1974 Impoundment Control Act or something similar, to request alterations to the bill before the money is sent out. But as I understand it after 45 days the money will get sent out regardless.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 1:59pm

          Re: Already happened

          Biden can still repeal it.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:07pm

            Re: Re: Already happened

            Cornpop worked for the MAFIAA in the past and has been very cooperative with them. He isn't repealing jack shit.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:25pm

            Re: Re: Already happened

            Also POTUS doesn't have the power to repeal laws dumbfuck. Either congress has to pass a bill to repeal the law (lol) or SCOTUS has to take up a lawsuit and rule it unconstitutional.

            Maybe BLM could ransack the U.S. Copyright Office and/or murder their appointees. They're not going to be very happy when they find out whitey can just toss them in the pen because they can't pay a $30K fine for downloading the latest hip-hop ablum.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:38pm

              Re: Re: Re: Already happened

              And risk furthering the left's belief that BLM are Terrorists. No, Thank You!!

              Considering the likelihood of a dem majority in the senate, the former seems likely. That or the latter.

              Finally, calling me dumbfuck? Oh, how mature. (though i didn't know that potus doesn't have the power, so justifiable.)

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:04pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Already happened

                You really think the uniparty has your best interests at heart? If the democrats told you Santa was real, would you believe them?

                If you're ignorant enough to assume that the U.S. President can just repeal any law he wants on a whim (imagine what Trump would be able to do with that kind of power holy shit, SEC 230 would already be gone), then you're gullible enough to get swindled by empty campaign promises and hidden agendas.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:10pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Already happened

                  Nope.

                  I am not ignorant.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:23pm

                    "I am not ignorant."

                    "I did not have sex with that woman."
                    "Iraq is hiding weapons of mass destruction."
                    "If you like your health care, you can keep it."
                    "Trickle down economics works."
                    "Real communism has never been tried."
                    "Mew is under the truck."

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
              identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:25pm

              Re: Re: Re: Already happened

              Nice mouth you got there. You must be losing the debate.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 8:55pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Already happened

                What's your win record like Jhon? Prenda Law, Malibu Media, Strike 3, Fox Rothschild, Richard Liebowitz, Donald Trump...

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 24 Sep 2021 @ 7:12am

              Re: Re: Re: Already happened

              I. Think. Mitch. Mconnell. Needs. To. Retire. And. The. Congress. And. House. Needs. To. Step. Up. Start. Caring. About. American. People. They. Say. Were. Printing. To. Much. Money. We. Need. This. Check. Im. Sure. Well. Find. Other. Ways. To. Make. It. Back. Stop. Complaning. And. Due. It

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Jojo (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:43pm

      Re:

      This isn’t about the end of the internet. This is about Mccuntell ensuring that the stimulus package for $2k doesn’t pass. So Mitch the Liche has created a scenario where Democrats (and Trump) -and the majority of Americans are in a lose-lose situation: let the stimulus packs get backed up or pass the $2k increase, but risk a digital ecocide and putting the economy into an apocalyptic depression. It’s not about whether or not section 230 is going away (and I highly doubt that), but it’s about doing things McConnell’s way.

      At this point, is it even worth creating a digital and economic genocide just to give American households each the equivalent of a petri dish?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:27pm

      Re:

      Every country other than the US has a functioning internet and no Section 230.

      Female victims of revenge porn (and all victims of housing discrimination) can thank Section 230 for letting websites off the hook.

      I'm sure Mike is throwing fits on behalf of his lawyer buddies, some of whom who have defended hate-websites and even linked to them. The sites act like it's a joke but they also say they put up places "where reputations go to die." Something is funding those sites...

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:46am

    Ah corruption and cowardice

    Rather than just admit outright that he has no interest in larger stimulus checks going out to the general public he's trying to sabotage the whole thing, turning it into a political shit-show by furthering the lies about election fraud and 230 just because the Dear Leader has a redwood up his ass about both and McConnel is too much of a gutless coward and too corrupt to say otherwise, assuming he even wants to.

    Nothing says 'we care about serving the country and the citizens within it' like holding desperately needed money hostage, if not trying to kill outright a bill to provide it, if you aren't allowed to use the bill providing that money to further your own completely unrelated interests.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      bob, 29 Dec 2020 @ 7:59pm

      Re: Ah corruption and cowardice

      What I don't understand is why McConnell has such a hatred of doing anything that betters the country. He only let the Senate pass their original tax reduction years ago because it was heavily tilted in favor of him and his cronies.

      His motives are not about good budget management or the betterment of the US. He only wants things that benefit him and he is smart enough to throw up smoke screens instead of like Trump that cant keep his mouth shut.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Thad (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 8:23pm

        Re: Re: Ah corruption and cowardice

        It sounds like you understand just fine.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Andrew, 30 Dec 2020 @ 7:45am

        Re: Re: Ah corruption and cowardice

        It's about winning - which is defined as doing the opposite of what your opponents want to happen. He is old and rich and powerful enough that he has no other pleasures or vices left, so at this point it's purely about seeing what the other side want and trying to stop that happening.

        You could feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a sack of shit.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        JMT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:26pm

        Re: Re: Ah corruption and cowardice

        Thad's right, you got this.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    crade (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:03am

    Key to remember here: Mitch is not actually claiming that 230 and fake election interference is the reason he won't give people the stimulus, he is only claiming that he is choosing to hold the stimulus hostage to try to get those things, there isn't even a claim of legitimacy here.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Blake C. Stacey (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:09am

    And now we live in dread that anti-Facebook sentiment will be strong enough for Democrats to swallow that poison pill....

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    David, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:21am

    He is throwing Trump under the bus

    McConnell on CHECKS, SECT. 230, ELECTION FRAUD: "Those are the three important subjects the President has linked together.

    Uh, no? We are talking about three different diatribes of the president here, one resulting in a presidential veto, one resulting in a late signing of an omnibus bill, and one resulting in nonsensical lawsuits and tweets and demands.

    There is no link here except that the president made a mess of all three, but it's not like he needs a connection for messing up things all on their own.

    So now McConnell is blaming Trump for McConnell tieing a bomb belt around the larger stimulus checks.

    It will be interesting to see what happens when Trump realises he's out, and whether McConnell manages to maintain the delusion until January 20th.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    icon
    Stan (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:24am

    The phrophecy

    It is interesting to note that the President's fellings about Section 230 were predicted centures ago. See this: https://i.redd.it/evw6bgc625861.jpg

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:34am

    Biden is against 230 too, so...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:36am

      Re:

      Hopefully he will backtrack on that soon.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:43am

      Re:

      Perhaps, but right now Trump's the one holding the country hostage in an attempt to kill 230 so what Biden might do in the future matters significantly less than what Trump and his cult are doing now.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:49am

        Re: Re:

        So what if biden requests the same thing as trump??

        Sure, he at least is mature than him, but 230 is a bipartisan thing, not a republican thing.

        Do you really expect biden to not attack it??

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:54am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Plus, if it actually does get repealed, Biden would take credit for it.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Big Chicken, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:55am

          Re: Re: Re:

          What's your point?
          Tomorrow the sky may fall upon our heads, it could happen.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:01pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            230 is a bipartisan thing, not a republican thing.

            That's my point.

            Tomorrow the sky may fall upon our heads, it could happen.

            Yeah, no. The sky doesn't fall.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Uriel-238 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:02pm

              Falling sky

              Thinks occasionally fall out of the sky and sometimes punch through engine blocks.

              One person allegedly got killed by a meteorite though there are doubts in the claim. Fewer than bear attacks and falling vending machines, though.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                David, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:27pm

                Re: Falling sky

                One person allegedly got killed by a meteorite though there are doubts in the claim. Fewer than bear attacks and falling vending machines, though.

                I always thought that the vending machine on the ISS was a stupid idea even before it fell out during spring break.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:04pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          If Biden tries to go after 230 once he's in office then people can call him out on that and tell him to knock it off as well, right now though he's not the one with the power to do so so the focus should be on the person who does have that power.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:10pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Yeah, i know,.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:07pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            If Biden want's to do the same crap Trump is doing you all who support him will be falling over yourselves trying to support and praise his support of the people. "If Biden want's to do the Trump stuff I'm gonna tell him no!" That's a lie and you know it. This entire website is just a giant echo chamber of Biden supporters. Everything is Trumps fault and Biden is the messiah. Gonna be a fun 4 years watching you snowflakes break.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:50pm

              My vote went to Joe Biden/Democrat candidates not because I am pro-Biden/pro-Democrat, but because I am anti-Trump/anti-Republican. I give my fealty to no political party, in fact. In that way, I have no “loyalty” to Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, or anyone else in the incoming Biden administration. If and when they fuck up, they deserve to get called on it — and I will do so.

              I don’t want to be live in a tyranny run by a dictatorial despot who rules with an iron fist. I don’t even want a dictator that I might agree with. My primary political standard isn’t “if everyone must suffer, my enemies should suffer worse” — or to put a different spin on a conservative meme, “own the redhats at any cost”. Ideally, civil servants in political office should want to help all their consitutents, including (and especially) the ones who didn’t vote for those politicians/agree with their policies. Politicians who don’t do that should be replaced with those who will.

              Joe Biden is not a savior sent from Heaven. Joe Biden is not my “friend in the White House”, a guy I can “count on”, or any other similar description you can think of. He is a civil servant elected by the people of the United States (through the Electoral College) to serve as a national crisis manager for the next four years. If he fucks up in that job, I have a responsibility — a duty, even — as both a citizen of the United States and a Biden voter to say “Biden fucked up”.

              If Biden supports/works toward a repeal of 230, I’ll call him an asshole for it. If he stops supporting the idea of a third stimulus check/a higher stimulus payment after he takes office, I’ll call him an asshole for that, too. Joe Biden doesn’t deserve (and shouldn’t get) a free pass for potentially returning us to “normalcy” after four years of Trumpian “politics”. He deserves only to be acknowledged as the president come January 20th; everything he does after the inauguration is fair game.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:58pm

                Re:

                So you voted for Biden because you hate trump? That is the dumbest thing I have heard today. That's like cutting off your arm because you hate how your nail paint looks. People like you are what is wrong with this country. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. How are you gonna feel if Biden turns out to be worse than Trump, which he is? Biden had 57 years to fix the country and has done nothing but make it worse. He is already backpedaling on what he said he was gonna do. He has the most diverse cab yet they are all unfit for their positions. The idiot in-charge of the highway dept has zero experience and the city he worked for had the worst roads in the country.

                You do know you don't have to vote right? I voted independent as I don't like either candidate. Had I not liked anyone on the ballot I wouldn't have voted. "It's your civic duty to vote!" No it is your civic duty to make an informed decision on your vote. Voting for Biden cause you hate Trump is a wasted uninformed vote. I didn't even both reading what you wrote as your first couple sentences showed how stupid you are. And I can base Biden's future on his past. He has only made things worse when he was VP and a senator. You will be wishing you voted for Trump when biden takes the throne. YOU and everyone that voted for him better not whine when it hits the fan. You turds said the same thing to people that voted for Trump now it's your turn. Enjoy the ride.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:57pm

                  So you voted for Biden because you hate trump?

                  Normally, I don’t respond to an attempt at otherwording, but this is actually my position. Yes, I voted Biden because I hate Donald Trump.

                  And I don’t use that word lightly. I don’t “dislike” Trump. I don’t “despise” him. I genuinely, sincerely, 100% full-blooded hate Donald Trump. He has done more damage to the United States — to its standing in the world, to its credibility, and to even its democratic institutions — than any outside force ever could.

                  He turned the presidency into a reality TV show where he was the host, the only contestant, and the only winner (until this past November, anyway). He gave his family cushy jobs they had no right having, gave positions in the government to people wholly unqualified for those positions, and fired people who gave more of a good god’s damn about the Constitution and the ideals of the country than about making sure Donald Trump was basically a godking who couldn’t ever be punished or removed from office. I can’t even list the entirety of the atrocities his administration has committed without making this comment at least twice the length of the article under which it’s posted. (I instead recommend reading the McSweeney’s Internet Tendency article that chronologically lists the atrocities of the Trump administration.)

                  I hate Donald Trump with every last fiber of my being. I will go to my grave hating that motherfucker. If I knew I would be alive long enough to see him dead and buried, I’d piss on whatever memorial goes up for him. If I could be the one to yank him out of the White House on January 20th, I wouldn’t hesitate to do it and I’d pop him in the face if he tried to fight it. Yes, I hate Donald Trump, and I would’ve voted for the Democrat candidate regardless of who it was because four years of an narcissistic, racist, misogynistic, anti-queer, anti-immigrant, sociopathic elderly game show host being in charge of (and ultimately trying to destroy) the United States is quite mother-goddamned-fucking enough.

                  Fuck Donald Trump. Fuck his family, his supporters, his allies in Congress, his allies in state legislatures, his companies, his former aides in the White House, his current aides in the White House, his former political appointees, his current political appointees, his three Supreme Court picks, and his shit-ass legal team. My president is Joe Biden and my vote is blue. You got a problem with that? I give less of a fuck about that than Trump gives about the United States. So go back to Parler and whine about it.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Rocky, 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:06pm

                  Re: Re:

                  So you voted for Biden because you hate trump? That is the dumbest thing I have heard today. That's like cutting off your arm because you hate how your nail paint looks. People like you are what is wrong with this country.

                  I see your reading comprehension is below par. If you go back and read Stephens post you'll see that nowhere does he state that he hates Trump.

                  It's actually people like you that are wrong with the USA, jumping to conclusions because you couldn't be arsed to comprehend what you read and then go off at people for all the wrong reasons. You even said so much (I didn't even both reading what you wrote as your first couple sentences showed how stupid you are), which makes your whole moronic diatribe of an argument worth less than piss in a pond. I guess you really showed us your "towering intellect and faculties for reason", you idiotic reprobate.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • icon
                    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:41pm

                    No no, hating Donald Trump is the primary reason I voted Democrat. (I’m also not a fan of Republicans in general, which is why I voted down-ticket Democrat in every race I could.) Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg — didn’t matter whose name was in that spot, I was voting for them no matter what.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                      identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:01pm

                      Re:

                      Good job wasting your votes and trying to destroy the country.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • icon
                        Toom1275 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:07pm

                        Re: Re:

                        [Asserts facts not in evidence]

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:07am

                        Re: Re:

                        Please clarify ... who is trying to destroy what?

                        From my vantage point, I see the GOP as trying to kill as many as they can. I see the Pro-Life Party doing their best to further spread the virus while limiting resources such that more people die.

                        These same folk fight against any attempt to stop global climate change they claim is a hoax but is flooding their beach front property.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Mike Masnick (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:22pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              This entire website is just a giant echo chamber of Biden supporters.

              You seem to be wholly unaware of what we've written about Biden, or the way in which we criticized the Obama administration for all 8 years of his Presidency.

              Everything is Trumps fault and Biden is the messiah.

              I don't know anyone who believes that who works here.

              Maybe stop... making shit up?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:27pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Have you even read the comments? I have only been here a couple months and all I see is Trump this Trump that and Biden is better. All the comments are just praising Biden and bashing Trump. So how am I making things up? Maybe show some proof to prove me wrong? Otherwise you are making shit up.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:32pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  You haven't looked way back then.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:02pm

                  All the comments are just praising Biden and bashing Trump.

                  Biden will most likely be better than Trump, in that Biden won’t actively try to burn down the country and play golf while the fires roar like a modern day Nero. As far as Biden being a good president? That remains to be seen, and if he fucks up, he’ll be criticized for it here regardless of how low Trump set the bar (before giving it a golden shower…allegedly).

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:00pm

                    Re:

                    He has already done all that. Have you shitstains been paying attention to the last 40+ years? You all act like this is the first time Biden has been in politics and before he worked at the Salvation Army. And people call trump supporters braindead fucks yet the Biden supporters are even worse. You already know how bad Biden is yet you still voted for him!!

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                    identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:06pm

                    Re:

                    He has and continues to screw the country up. Unlike Trump we already know Biden's track record of destroying the country. Wait why are you even in politics? You would vote for Hitler if he was democrat. You and people like you disgust the rest of the world. Voting blindly because "durr I hate duh repubwicans so I gunna vote for the democwats". And your ilk call trump supporters brainless cult followers? You idiots voted for a dementia patient with a history of making the country worse. You are even worse than what you hate. That also means you voted for Obama. The two term racist that fueled racewars that continue to this day. BLM started under him. But, as long as it's not a repubwican it's ok right? Please never vote again or talk. Maybe join your lemming friends and jump off a cliff.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      R.H. (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:14pm

                      Re: Re:

                      Are you claiming that we don't currently know anything about Trump's record of destroying the country? Since I don't feel like looking up any of the more esoteric examples, I'll just point you to the fact that Trump has presided over the largest number of excess American deaths in modern history and that's just in his last year in office. COVID-19 was always going to kill a large number of people but, there's absolutely no reason that it had to kill over 330 thousand Americans in nine months. That's literally 0.1% of the entire population of the country. I can't speak for you but, I consider that quite destructive.

                      Biden, on the other hand, has been both a Senator and Vice President in his time in the federal government. Neither of those positions allowed him to exercise the kind of individual power that the office of President allows. Were some of his views on crime in the past bad? Yes, and he has admitted as much. Did he work with segregationists to pass legislation? Yes, and that too was a known quantity. The point isn't that he's done problematic things decades ago, the question is whether he learned from people who were affected by those things and if he's changed since then. I, and a majority of other Americans, believe that he has changed for the better.

                      Concerning your other contention about "voting blindly". With very few exceptions, Republican politicians at the federal level have moved in lockstep with President Trump. In the last couple of years of Trump's Presidency, that march has had us walking right up to the edge of a cliff. Generally, that kind of action causes a pushback against the party currently in charge. In this case, that means that Republicans down-ballot, even if they aren't Trumpian, lose. If what you mean is that people should vote third-party, I agree. However, until we fix our first past the post voting system, voting third-party is broken for major races. I would have preferred a Democratic candidate who wasn't Biden but, a majority of Democrat primary voters decided on him.

                      On your last point, President Obama being racist is unlikely, to say the least. Firstly, is there any evidence that he ever used racial slurs towards anyone? I can't imagine something like that not coming out when he was running either time. Secondly, while not impossible, the evidentiary bar for calling a mixed-race person racist is pretty high. He didn't have a very long history in federal governance before being elected President (only two years in the Senate) so was it something in his voting record that you are alluding to?

                      Concerning the Black Lives Matter movement starting while he was President, that much is true by itself. The movement started in July 2013 after the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin...by a state court. There were a number of reasons that the movement took off when it did but from my personal point of view, it was because many of us African-Americans (especially those of us in our twenties at the time) believed that finally having a black President meant that there would be justice in cases like these. However, it turns out that this kind of change has to come from the bottom up rather than the top down (which is quite apparent to mid-thirties me). So, you end up with people protesting every time something like this happens, and similarly to the civil rights protests, eventually you see change. If you see people protesting against their family members and neighbors being killed without cause as a "racewar" then you might be part of the problem.

                      I'll close with a quote from Kimberly Jones that sizes up what you've called a racewar:

                      So, when they say “Why do you burn down the community? Why do you burn down your own neighborhood?” It’s not ours. We don’t own anything. We don’t own anything. There is -Trevor Noah said it so beautifully last night “There’s a social contract that we all have. That if you steal or if I steal then the person who is the authority comes in and they fix the situation. But the person who fixes the situation is killing us. So, the social contract is broken. And if the social contract is broken why the fuck do I give a shit about burning them fucking Football Hall of Fame, about burning a fucking Target.

                      You broke the contract when you killed us in the streets and didn’t give a fuck! You broke the contract where for 400 years we played your game and built your wealth. You broke the contract when we built our wealth again on our own by our bootstraps in Tulsa and you dropped bombs on us. When we built it in Rosewood and you came in and you slaughtered us. You broke the contract.

                      So, fuck your Target. Fuck your Hall of Fame. Far as I’m concerned I could burn this bitch to the ground and it still wouldn’t be enough. And they are lucky that what black people are looking for is equality and not revenge.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:44pm

                        Re: Re: Re:

                        Your quote is bs and is what is wrong with this movement. You are stuck 300 years in the past and forget that slavery has existed far longer than you care to admit. Do you see Jews burning cities and taking down statues then asking for "muh reparations"? Get over yourself. THes bs BLM movements only make the divide larger not smaller. You will NEVER see any change as long as you attack everyone and anyone that doesn't support what you want. You say this "movement" started in 2013 and have you accomplished? NOTHING except spreading more hate and division. So good job on that! Nothing like trying to change for the good and instead set civil rights back 200 years. Erasing history won't change anything as it is still there. "Blackwashing" the country won't change anything for the good. All it will do is breed more racists and make things worse. Burning cities because "it's not ours" is just a cop out. If it wasn't yours then why you living there? Also there was no damn contract. So that chick is just trying to make excuses for looting and murdering people.

                        Know what else doesn't help your "movement"? Rioting in support of criminals. Killing other blacks and saying whites made you do it. Blaming all YOUR problems that YOU created on others instead of owning up to it. Get over yourselves and catch up with the rest of society or be left in the rubble.

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                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:30am

                          I bet you’re the kind of person who thinks the burden of solving anti-Black racism should be laid upon Black people.

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:37am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Do you see Jews burning cities and taking down statues then asking for "muh reparations"?

                          They took a slightly different path, and started their own state by reclaiming Israel. Whatever your thoughts are on that, the Creation of Israel was a result of the Holocaust.

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                • identicon
                  Rocky, 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:09pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Have you even read the comments? I have only been here a couple months and all I see is Trump this Trump that and Biden is better. All the comments are just praising Biden and bashing Trump. So how am I making things up? Maybe show some proof to prove me wrong? Otherwise you are making shit up.

                  Quote one post on this article that is pro-Biden.

                  Put up or shut up.

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                    That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 7:14pm

                    Broken arm vs Amputated limb, both bad, but not equally

                    Even if they did that wouldn't necessarily mean anything, because if one option is clearly better than the other option it makes perfect sense that people would be more in favor of that option.

                    If Trump gets 'bashed' on a regular basis that's probably because he's a horrible person and politicians who earns that treatment on a regular basis, and if people are generally more in favor of Biden, well, Trump's set the bar so low that it really doesn't take much for someone to be seen as an improvement.

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                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:57pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Did you even read any of the comments? Did you read of the last few articles? They are all probiden antitrump. That good enough? Or is your intelligence so low... wait you voted for biden and probably wear a mask while you drive so everyone already knows you are braindead.

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                    PaulT (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:53pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    "Quote one post on this article that is pro-Biden."

                    That's pretty meaningless even if he finds one. The comments section here is a collection of people with differing opinions from all over the world, and a single comment saying one thing does not indicate any overall editorial slant to the discussion.

                    The only real consensus here tends to be that Trump is a horrible person and a disastrous president, but that's something that can be objectively prove with facts, so still doesn't prove an editorial bias.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:06am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Soooo are you confirming that this place is biased? I mean it's pretty obvious that it is heavily slanted to one side. Trump comments get moderated to oblivion and even retarded biden support posts get the spotlight. I still don't understand why the comments calling for McConnell's death haven't been modded away. Oooooh that's right biased website and comment section. Sorry my bad.

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                        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:15am

                        Trump comments get moderated to oblivion

                        He who gets angry first loses, and nobody is more prone to anger than a conservative who thinks he isn’t being heard. Don’t want to get moderated? Stop being so angry all the time and try to have a reasoned discussion with people who disagree with/don’t think like you. I’ve done it here before. Why can’t you?

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                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 8:51am

                          Re:

                          Then my anti-230 arguments win because they provoke nothing but ad-hominem verbal abuse.

                          There's nothing more angry than a liberal whose logical inconsistency has been exposed. See the death of #metoo when Dems started being accused or cancel culture when it kept a white girl out of college, or see feminists when they realize that transphobia applies to anyone who think biological males don't belong in women's prisons.

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                        PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:29am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        "Trump comments get moderated to oblivion"

                        This is false. Trump comments not coming from someone acting like a raging asshole don't tend to be flagged. That these are so few and far between is not a problem with moderation.

                        "Oooooh that's right biased website and comment section"

                        LOL If you want to see a biased website, go to any number of pro-Trump websites where any failure to IP address to go along with the complete deletion of the original comment.

                        Is that why you're so butthurt when you come here? The usual echo chambers you hang out in have hidden dissent from you so successfully that you don't understand how non-cult members talk?

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                  techflaws (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:38pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  I have only been here a couple months and all I see is Trump this
                  Trump that and Biden is better.

                  Tough shit for you assclowns that reality has a well-known liberal bias, huh?

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                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:56pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Coming from an assclown right? You voted for some dumbass that can't even remember his own wife or his sister yet you think he can run a country? Tell me one thing he has done during his 40+ years in office that helped this country and I can name 20 things he did that hurt it. Gonna be soooo much fun watch all you Biden dipshits cry when he destroys the country and makes Trump look like a hero. OH wait, we will all be dead by then so I will still laugh. Remember; the destruction Biden and his mate Haris bring down is YOUR FAULT.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:06pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Trump doesn't remember his wife either, that's why he's so proud of fucking other women and grabbing their pussies.

                      You champs really know how to pick a winner don't ya?

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:11pm

                      You voted for some dumbass that can't even remember his own wife or his sister yet you think he can run a country?

                      You voted for an elderly narcissistic game show host with no record of public service prior to 2017, a history of failed marriages and businesses (how do you fuck up running a casino?), a history of expressing racist beliefs going back to the “birther” controversy of the Obama campaign/administration, a history of sexual assault allegations (including a since-withdrawn allegation of marital rape from one of his ex-wives), a history of sexualizing his own daughter dating back to when she was a baby, a history of anti-immigrant/anti-Latino sentiment, no shame in lying and manipulating both the media and his voting base (including the Christians he would go on to insult as deluded), a potential for dementia himself (given his age and his erratic behavior), no regrets or remorse for any of his actions/inactions while in office (including the unwillingness to act that led to the now-catastrophic state of the national public health crisis that is the COVID-19 pandemic), and the desire to destroy the foundation of American democracy and install himself as a wannabe dictator because he lost an election.

                      Joe Biden wasn’t a perfect candidate. He was barely even a good one. But he is by far a better candidate (and a better human being) than Trump was or ever will be. Unless, of course, you prefer your presidents to compliment violent racists by calling them “very fine people” and tell them they should “stand back and stand by” in case he loses the election, defend monuments to a failed nation-state that seceded from and fought a war with the U.S. to preserve the enslavement of Black people, insult and berate non–Fox News reporters for doing their jobs and asking the kinds of questions they’d ask any other politician, pardon war criminals who killed innocent civilians (including children), and threaten free speech on the Internet because people hurt his fee-fees on Twitter. In that case: Yeah, Donald Trump is your perfect candidate.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:15am

                        Re:

                        I hate trump almost as much as everyone else, didn't vote for him both times, yet because I say Biden is just as bad I am a trump supporter. That because I have stupid opinions I am a trump supporter. Joe Biden is on the same level as Trump or worse. He has been in office 47+ years in various positions and has done NOTHING to help this country. Listing Biden's failures would be hundreds of pages long yet delirious idiots like you still voted for him because "Trump a bad man anything is better." You even admitted Biden is a poor choice so why tf did you pick him? Are you morons gonna blame Trump when Biden starts destroying the country? Or are you gonna finally grow a pair and admit you screwed up? I don't think you will and your posts prove it. I voted independent as I have said multiple times yet you still say I am a trump supporter and have poor reading skills. Guess Biden supporters are retarded too, just better at hiding it.

                        Let's not forget the disasters that have come from the Democrats you hold in such high regard. I guess turning a blind eye to that is ok as long as you get rid of trump right? Cut the nose off to spite the face.

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                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:28am

                          yet because I say Biden is just as bad I am a trump supporter

                          The logical assumption is that yes, if you’re not a Biden fan (and you’re kinda parroting Trumpian talking points about him), you’re more than likely a Trump supporter. Next time, debunk it beforehand if you don’t want people making assumptions. It’s why I freely admitted that my vote for Biden was less about getting him into the White House and more about getting Trump out of it.

                          because I have stupid opinions

                          You said it, not me.

                          delirious idiots like you still voted for him because "Trump a bad man anything is better."

                          “Anything” isn’t better than Trump. But yes, Biden was the best candidate of a rather poor slate of them. I’ll take his brand of centrist bullshittery over Trump’s corruption, malfeasance, and incompetence any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

                          Are you morons gonna blame Trump when Biden starts destroying the country?

                          If actions taken (or not taken) during the Trump administration are largely responsible for “destroying the country”, his administration deserves the blame. If Biden fucks things up independently of Trump’s bullshit (or well after reversing that bullshit), he can, will, and should get the blame for that.

                          Guess Biden supporters are [ableist slur] too

                          At least I’m personally considerate enough to not use that word.

                          Let's not forget the disasters that have come from the Democrats you hold in such high regard.

                          Yeah, let’s not forget how Obama started the family separation policy at the border and escalated drone strikes to an absurd level. But hey, how many of those “disasters” led to 300,000-plus Americans dying on American soil of a national health care crisis within the space of a year in the same way that the failure of the Trump administration to prepare for a possible pandemic (and its subsequent inaction on that front until the numbers could no longer be ignored) led to those many deaths? Because last I checked, the Obama administration dealt with two such potential threats to national health, and those weren’t nearly as disastrous as COVID-19.

                          Cut the nose off to spite the face.

                          Trump supporters literally want Republicans/Donald Trump to overturn the 2020 election, tear down American democracy, and install Trump as a fascist dictator because their dude lost. They’re trying to cut off more of everyone else’s noses than their own because if everyone is going to suffer, “the libs” should suffer more.

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                          techflaws (profile), 31 Dec 2020 @ 10:21pm

                          Re: Re:

                          Listing Biden's failures would be hundreds of pages long yet
                          delirious idiots like you still voted for him because "Trump a bad
                          man anything is better."

                          Yup, I'm with Sam Harris on this one:

                          "I’ll tell you how bad I think this is: if you gave me a choice to randomly pick an American citizen, or take Trump, I would roll the dice with a random citizen. I mean, you realize how bad that could turn out? You realize how many people in this country shouldn’t be president? I would go for door #2, ok, because at a minimum, I would expect a randomly chosen unqualified citizen to be so terrified and awed by the responsibility being thrust upon his or her shoulders that they would be desperate to defer to real experts. Trump has the opposite attitude. His lack of qualification is married to an egocentrism the likes of which we have never seen! So no, the health issue is a non-issue for me. As long as she doesn’t show up at a rally and kill and eat a baby, she’s got my vote."

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                            Uriel-238 (profile), 31 Dec 2020 @ 10:39pm

                            "Randomly pick an American citizen..."

                            Brett Hennig made a pretty good case for sortition over democracy, especially since, as we've learned throughout industrialized nations, those candidates that are the best at campaigning are actually crap at public-serving governance.

                            Trump should be an indictment of the democracy in the US, but we seem eager to not do a god-damn thing to stop the next guy who can convince all the idiots he'll save the world.

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                            PaulT (profile), 1 Jan 2021 @ 1:13am

                            Re: Re: Re:

                            Hell, the baby eater would still be a great choice if that's the only person they deliberately kill, unlike the guy who's still killing 3,500 people a day through his incompetence.

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                          PaulT (profile), 1 Jan 2021 @ 1:06am

                          Re: Re:

                          "Listing Biden's failures would be hundreds of pages long yet delirious idiots like you still voted for him because "Trump a bad man anything is better.""

                          Yes, such is Trump's failure as a president and as a human being, that everyone's aware of Biden's issues, yet happily vote for him in a heartbeat because he's still a far superior choice. Think about that.

                          "Are you morons gonna blame Trump when Biden starts destroying the country? Or are you gonna finally grow a pair and admit you screwed up?"

                          Everyone who voted for Biden this election will be happy to criticise him when he screws up, unlike Trump voters who still turn out to cheer him on at events designed to spread a deadly pandemic, then get stranded in freezing temperatures because he's too incompetent to pay the bus services that would get them back to their cars. Yet, nobody will think they screwed up, because they made the clearly superior choice compare to allowing Trump to continue his rampage of destruction.

                          There are very very Biden supporters this election who thought he was the ideal candidate, but when faced with only two choices, and the other was Trump, they cannot possibly regret their vote because he will not be doing the kinds of things Trump was doing.

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                      techflaws (profile), 31 Dec 2020 @ 10:07pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      You voted for some dumbass that can't even remember his own
                      wife or his sister yet you think he can run a country?

                      It's funny that asshats like you are apparently too stupid to realize that EVERYTHING you blame Biden for has been done by Drumpf at least in triplicate. Way to show your superior intellect, dude.

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                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:51pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "all I see is Trump this Trump that and Biden is better"

                  Even if this were true, that's just saying that people would rather eat a mouldy two day old Taco Bell than eat a literal piece of dog shit. That doesn't mean they consider the Taco Bell to haute cuisine, it just means that they'd rather eat something that's actual food until they can get a proper chef in charge of the kitchen again.

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            • icon
              Toom1275 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 7:45pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              [Projects facts not in evidence]

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            • icon
              WarioBarker (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:12pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Last I checked, Techdirt is decidedly unbiased when it comes to calling out crap and corruption, no matter who's doing it.

              Saying that the site would completely flip its mindset if Biden does the same things Trump has done (or worse stuff) just because it's not Trump doing it suggests to me that you support political corruption so long as "Da Left" isn't the ones doing it.

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                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:31pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                TD is unbiased? Boy are you smoking some good shit. The comments aren't even remotely unbiased either. Further down there is talk about killing McConnell. Yeah sure sounds unbiased to me. I still don't understand why when the "right side" talks like the "left" has been doing for the past 4 years it is suddenly bad and evil. Who spent the last four years saying "Not my president!"? Who spent the last four years talking about killing trump, allowing photos of trumps being beheaded, and still are complaining about trump? How quickly you forget that you guys where the actual epitomy of evil towards trump. Now all of the sudden because your president won by fraud everyone needs to unify and forget all the hate from the last four years. Go to hell.

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                • icon
                  R.H. (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:23pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  The commentariat is reasonably unbiased. As you can tell by the fact that you, someone who I'll hazard a guess to say voted for President Trump, are able to comment just as well as me, someone who voted for President-Elect Biden. We may disagree with each other but we are both able to post here. Also, yes there are people who have called for the deaths of various Republicans but, none of that has been in articles or by staff writers. TechDirt doesn't even mention the parties of politicians it mentions unless the party is relevant to the story unlike the vast majority of news agencies. The lengths they go to remain unbiased are incredible.

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                    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:36am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Firstly I didn't vote for Trump, Clinton, nor Biden, I didn't vote for him the first time either. He is a businessman and I said he would run the country like a business, he did and is. Secondly I cannot post like you as my posts get flagged and are then hidden because I don't follow the status quo. Like this post will. Just because I believe some crazy things, like you do, doesn't mean I am a trump supporter (unless you are saying you are as well). You are able to say the site is unbiased as it posts stuff you agree with and even the comment sections are generally left leaning. The site is just like the vast majority of other news sites in that it is left leaning and actively discourages any other viewpoint. If it wasn't, the comment section would be a mix of all supporters and an equalish amount of posts from all sides would be flagged. But, that isn't the case here is it? Scroll through this comment section or any other comment section on a political article for proof. And yes the mods and staff are left leaning and it is easily spotted by just how the articles are worded and how the comment section is "moderated".

                    I have not seen such hate for a single president be so encouraged and embraced like that of Trump. This sickness spreads through almost all platforms yet any negativity against your lord and savior Biden is immediately quashed. I don't recall the Republican party calling for a database of all Democratic supporters so they can be "dealt with". Even covid is blamed on Trump when it was the dems that where calling out him for trying to handle it when it started. Then when he did what they wanted he is still held as the destroyer of the country for not stopping covid in its tracks. Nothing can stop it yet you still blame Trump for everything. This site is biased, the comments are biased, the staff are biased, and all major social media platforms are biased. To say otherwise is willful ignorance. Most major platforms are also left leaning, this site and its commentators included. Again just this article and comment section alone prove my point. If this is TD's hardest at trying to remain unbiased it's a pretty sad attempt.

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:04am

                      I have not seen such hate for a single president be so encouraged and embraced like that of Trump.

                      Donald Trump became a political figure in conservative politics precisely because he encouraged and embraced the hatred of Barack Obama (so much so that Trump is widely considered to be the person who popularized and kept alive the “birther” conspiracy theory). Congressional Republicans literally made it their mission to stonewall Obama for most of his presidency so he couldn’t get anything done (which included holding open a Supreme Court seat for a year so a possible Republican president could name a conservative judge to the bench). The activity levels of White supremacists/nationalists, right-wing militias, and other such groups rose dramatically after Obama won the presidency — to the point where those groups are easily the single largest U.S. domestic terror threat — and they’ve only gotten bolder since Trump won in 2016.

                      If you didn’t see the hatred being directed at Barack Obama by conservative leaders and Donald Trump, you either weren’t looking hard enough or you were participating in it and don’t want to say so.

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                      PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:20am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "I have not seen such hate for a single president be so encouraged and embraced like that of Trump"

                      Lol, try reading through some right-wing sites during the Obama years. At least Trump's actions are attracting the criticism this time around.

                      "The site is just like the vast majority of other news sites in that it is left leaning and actively discourages any other viewpoint"

                      No, it just means that politics in the US has become so skewed and corrupted that opinions that would be terms centre-right elsewhere in the world are treated as if they're calling for the second coming of Marx. Basic facts are treated as if they are biased because they don't bow to the fictions that the far right are peddling.

                      "Then when he did what they wanted"

                      He really, really didn't.

                      "Nothing can stop it yet you still blame Trump for everything."

                      Not everything, just his whining, him firing the pandemic team that was set up to stop these problems, his pretending that the pandemic didn't exist when he could have taken action to save tens of thousands of lives, his withholding of aid from states that didn't vote for him, his public attacks on his own medical experts and his holding of superspreader events, among other things.

                      He's not blamed for what he had no control of, he's blamed for the actions he did (or didn't) do where it would have been beneficial to something other than his own ego.

                      Republicans in the Obama era: 4 Americans died in Benghazi, let's spend years holding investigations and hearings so we can blame Hillary for everything.

                      Republicans in the Trump era: so what if more Americans have died in less than a year than in WWI and Vietnam combined, with the more than died on 9/11 dying every day and no end in sight to that figure growing? Why are you being mean to the guy in charge?

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:42am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        "Lol, try reading through some right-wing sites during the Obama years. At least Trump's actions are attracting the criticism this time around."

                        But, was it on every social media platform, news station, website, and out in public? No. Good try but, not remotely close.

                        "it just means that politics in the US has become so skewed and corrupted"

                        Can't argue with that.

                        "Not everything..."

                        Everything. he had no control over it coming here yet was attacked when he tried to control the borders. As for pretending it didn't exist? Well it's been here since September 2019 and there were briefings held yet was ignored by both sides. I also recall the dems encouraging everyone to go about their lives and to ignore racist trump. Remember that? Remember how in February trump tried doing shit about the virus but, was crucified by every news outlet and dem? Yeah better update your talking points.

                        "He's not blamed for what he had no control of"

                        Actually he is and still is. Why is Fauci being left alone? He doesn't follow his own recommendations. He is just as much to blame as orangeman.

                        "more Americans have died in less than a year than in WWI and Vietnam combined"

                        This is not even remotely true. IN WWI there were over 20 million deaths alone. COvid? 1.79 million world wide. Again, update your talking points.

                        "more than died on 9/11 dying every day"

                        Again false. Average of 931 per day here. Maybe use factual numbers for your blowhard arguments.

                        The cases of covid may be increase but guess what else is.... the number of people recovering. The number of deaths has been on a steady decline for the past couple months. But who cares right? Orangeman bad so nothing else matters! Gotta make shit up to make him look bad!

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                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:36am

                          was it on every social media platform, news station, website, and out in public? No.

                          Doesn’t mean it wasn’t there — and that it wasn’t encouraged by Republican lawmakers and conservative talking heads alike.

                          he had no control over it coming here yet was attacked when he tried to control the borders.

                          Because he tried to prevent people coming in from China from entering the country when, by the time COVID hit the U.S., the disease was coming here from people coming in from Europe. Trying to control the borders wasn’t a bad idea per se; trying to control the borders in a way that let the disease in anyway was.

                          Why is Fauci being left alone? He doesn't follow his own recommendations.

                          Except he does. He said in several interviews prior to Thanksgiving that he planned to avoid holiday travel (and thus avoid visiting his family) precisely because it was recommended that everyone do so to keep cases from spiking again.

                          IN WWI there were over 20 million deaths alone.

                          And how many of those deaths were American deaths? (Bonus question: How many of those deaths occured on American soil?)

                          Average of 931 per day here.

                          According to Worldometer, the current seven-day moving average for deaths as of this morning is 2,250 per day. It’s been floating around the 2,000s pretty much all month. While the average may have dropped in this past week, it’s still well above the average on the 29th of November (1,482). Which reminds me to tell you…

                          The number of deaths has been on a steady decline for the past couple months.

                          …the average has been steadily rising since mid-October, too. Whatever numbers you’re getting, they’re obviously not nationwide numbers. And even if one state is doing better than others, that isn’t the national trend, and COVID isn’t just a “blue state” disease. We still haven’t seen how the Christmas holiday season will end up spiking new cases come next week — and they will spike, considering the amount of holiday travel that reportedly happened last week.

                          But who cares right?

                          Certainly not you, ratlicker.

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                          Toom1275 (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 9:15am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Everything. he had no control over it coming here yet was attacked when he tried to control the borders

                          Back in the real world, the criticism was rightly aimed at his racist ban on chinese persons rather than travel from China (which let in 40,000 people coming from China, including Wuhan, go directly into America's largest cities without any testing) and they way he lagged on restricting travel from European areas he held personal property.

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                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:29am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Bro you spent your posts on this thread making fun of everyone who disagreed with you or Trump. Claiming that you didn't vote for him after you broke your back carrying his water like a simp is such an obvious feint a fucking toddler can see through it. For someone who claims to not vote for or like Trump you sure spring to his defense like white knights buying gamer girl bath water.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:50am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Says the one begging for Biden and his supporters to make him a yeetblanket. So it's ok for everyone to do what you said for biden yet be allowed to remain "unbiased" but, if I do it for trump I am a simp and mule? I really hope Biden takes office and screws it up worse than Trump. Pull the reverse uno card and accuse you of being a cumdumpster for biden. Also I am not your bro asshole so jog on.

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                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:19am

                          yeetblanket

                          Wanna know how I know the only memes you know are the ones that come primarily from right-wing circles instead of more popular sites?

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 7:36am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          After everything Trump has done to tear down everyday Americans and empower his friends and corporations, that you still support him at all makes you a simp and a mule. The man is trash, absolutely useless as a president and deserves all the criticism aimed at him and more. Yet you support him mindlessly.

                          Yeah, you're a tool. In more than one sense of the word.

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            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 5:56am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "Everything is Trumps fault and Biden is the messiah."

              This is simply pathetic. Must be weird living in a false dichotomy.

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              • icon
                PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:08am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                It's pathetic but revealing, in many different ways. When you know that you're dealing with someone who deals with politics in religious terms, you know you probably can't sway them directly with facts and logic. When you know you're dealing with someone unable to accept blame for one party, or believe that the supporters of the other party are capable of applying blame to the things they have done incorrectly, you know their arguments will be in bad faith.

                The sad thing is, it also falsifies one old adage - that ignorance is bliss. So many of these people who proudly display their ignorance are the most unhappy, scared people I've ever encountered.

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    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:47am

    Reopen the economy

    All these checks and "stimulus" bills are doing is kicking the can down the road. If we keep on this route, printing money, we will end up like the USSR (pre-collapse) and Zimbabwe where our money is worth less than the paper it's printed on. Keeping businesses shutdown and workers laid off (I being one of them) is what is killing everyone. Yeah it is a slow death but a death nonetheless. We are seeing that it doesn't matter how hardcore you are with this virus it will still get you. Look at SK who was touted as the best at handling it, now they have a 2nd/3rd wave. You want to help the people, let them get back to work. Also stop giving all our money away to foreign countries.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:56am

      Re: Reopen the economy

      Are you going to cover funeral and hospital bills for those workers? As for "your" Zimbabwe currency, it inflated during the crony years when Mugabe was booting successful farmers off their land while printing money by the ton to pay the military and his appartachiks

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        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:54pm

        Re: Re: Reopen the economy

        Are you gonna pay everyone's rent? You gonna put them up in your home all the millions that will be evicted soon? Are you gonna pay for the funeral costs for everyone that is committing suicide due to this? Did you know that in Japan 6 year olds are now killing themselves due to the lock downs? And yes, suicide has claimed more than the virus. The mental and financial impact all these measures are having far outweigh the damage done by the virus itself.

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        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:02pm

          I love~ how you’ve turned death into a contest where the cause of death that takes the most lives matters the most. You’ve literally gameshow-ified death.

          You really are a Trumpian.

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            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:05pm

            Re:

            And you are a dumbass that voted for Biden because you hate trump. Good job throwing your vote away. I am not "gameshow-ifng" death. I am trying to compare how the cure is worse than the disease. How is having perpetual lockdowns, people homeless, starving, dying, and destroying the economy gonna help things? People are losing their homes, jobs, and everything because turds like you are scared of something that has been around long before we existed and will be around long after we are gone. Printing money is not the solution. Telling everyone to hide in their homes till they starve to death is not the solution. Well I guess it might be. Can't catch anything if you are dead.

            "We will do fine if the government keeps giving us stimulus checks!" And where does that money come from? Taxes. Well who is paying taxes if everyone is unemployed? Didn't think about that did you? What will happen if the government keeps printing worthless checks? Inflation. We all know what happens when an economy has massive inflation in a short time. But, yeah, let's just stay home because little stephen is scared of a virus.

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            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:16pm

              the cure is worse than the disease. How is having perpetual lockdowns, people homeless, starving, dying, and destroying the economy gonna help things?

              The “cure” wouldn’t have prevented COVID from becoming a mass casualty event. Nothing short of (maybe) going “full Madagascar” and shutting down everything could have stopped the pandemic. But the damage might not be as bad now if Americans had stopped believing in the uniquely American “rugged individual” myth and started believing in “we’re all in this together, so let’s do right by each other”.

              But no, Donald Trump was all “the virus will be gone soon” every other day…until he couldn’t ignore the fact that it wasn’t magically going away. He decried wearing masks as “political” and generally a bad idea…which lead to maskholes proclaiming their “right” to go maskless on third-party private property. He and his administration refused to do anything about the pandemic until it had grown so far out of control that all he could really do was watch, flabbergasted by the idea that other people exist and suffer and don’t think of him as a god, as the number of deaths and infections rose…which led to the government having no national plan for handling the worst public health crisis in a century.

              More than 300,000 American citizens — or about 1 in every 1,000 Americans — have died from COVID-19. We’re losing thousands of people per day instead of per week or per month. Even the vaccines won’t be widely available for another six months, by which time the number of day may be double or even triple what it is today; hell, it might even reach 1,000,000. None of those people are coming back, and they’re sure as shit not going to spend whatever money they had in the bank at Walmart or Pizza Hut or Office Depot.

              So go ahead and tell me how having thousands more dead people but no mask mandates/lockdowns/stop-the-spread-of-COVID measures would have been even better for the United States economy than the pissant approach it took that cost 300,000-plus Americans their lives. I’ll wait.

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                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:13pm

                Re:

                Look to Sweden. Good enough for you? So from what I gather you are ok with destroying the economy and killing more people by suicide as long as you stop the virus. A virus that will never go away. You seem to forget that Trump was called racist for closing the borders and banning flights from China and how he handled things. SO he did what you drooling idiots wanted and now you are mad it went south anyways. Good job shifting blame though. golfclap nice attempt. Also it was Fauci that said not to wear masks remember? The same one the DC mayor is making a saint. Oh guess that was Trump.

                Your democrat friends wanted no restrictions early on. They were seen out mingling with the sick because Trump was racist. Let's try it your way. Shut everything down and keep everyone locked in their homes till they either die from starvation or from the looters. Oh wait a country already tried your method and are having new waves. Oh China did too and they have new waves. I bet Trump made that happen too.

                What happened to the flu? Guess that vanished along with your intelligence.

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                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:12pm

                  At this point, your refusal to live in a reality not dictated by Donald Trump, Fox News, OANN, NewsMax, Breitbart, InfoWars, PragerU, and possibly 8kun is just sad.

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                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:27pm

                    Re:

                    And your reality is any better? Like how you still think I support trump just because I am calling bullshit on everything your low iq ass has said. Stupid must be a requirement to be a member here. SO according to you and most everyone here if you disagree with all the established bs and hating on trump you are automatically a trump supporter and everything that goes with it. If anything, your blind following and blind voting would make you a trump supporter too. Sorry your outlook on the world is so skewed by the echochambers you live in that anything outside of it is scawy!

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:11am

                      I haven’t seen this much projection and otherwording since the last time Hamilton tried to defend Shiva Ayyadurai.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:40am

                        Re:

                        Nice try on that deflection there. I give it a 4 out of 10. You have no say in anything political as you just throw your votes away just so you can vote dem. You opinion matters less than Trumps.

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                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:55pm

                  Re: Re:

                  "Look to Sweden"

                  I'd update your talking points if I were you, that's not really a good example at the moment.

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                  R.H. (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:11am

                  Re: Re:

                  I guess I'll do one of those "defeat your points in turn" things today.

                  Sweeden has been an unmitigated disaster and even they had a partial lockdown. Sweeden has had many more deaths per capita than their neighbor nations who did go into full lockdowns.

                  Concerning banning flights from China, that didn't help, primarily because it appears that the main Chinese vectors entered the country before that happened. Also, the strain that infected the east coast came from Europe.

                  The reason that it was recommended that most people not wear masks was that there was a shortage of both surgical and N95 masks and what supply existed needed to be held for medical professionals. Also, it wasn't yet known whether or not simple cloth coverings would provide a useful amount of protection from transmission of the virus. Once sufficient data was collected on the usefulness of cloth masks, and once the supply of medical quality masks improved, the recommendation changed. As a song I enjoy says, "It's a process, not an ideology." We don't believe scientists because they're gods among men, we believe them because there's a process that has been used for centuries to test hypotheses and provide repeatable conclusions.

                  Next, I assume that you're speaking about the various protests over the unjustified killings of black people in various states of disarmament this year. It turns out that Rutgers, Harvard, Northeastern, and Northwestern universities have performed a study on whether outdoor protests caused increased COVID-19 cases. The answer was no. Since many protesters wear some type of mask as a teargas protection measure and they're all outdoors, transmission rates were quite low.

                  To answer your final question, what do we do. We pay people to stay home from work. That's what other wealthy, monetarily sovereign, nations are doing. If you pay people enough to stay home, then the only people working are those who absolutely must work for the rest of us to stay home because, in order to get those people to be willing to work in a pandemic, they have to be paid more than the amount that the government is paying people not to go out during a pandemic.

                  I'll even answer the common, "What about inflation?" and, "What about the national debt?" questions now. Concerning inflation, given the smack the economy has been given by COVID, (back in April the Treasury Department was planning on over 2% inflation, it's about half that now) the American government could afford to print a couple trillion dollars and that would just place the inflation rate back in the annual range that the Treasury and the Federal Reserve Bank aim for. We would still have headroom above that long before touching dangerous levels of inflation.

                  Secondly, the national debt is spoken about as though the federal government was a household or a business. It is neither. There are no US Dollars without the US Government. The US Dollar is backed solely by "the Full Faith and Credit" of the US Government. As such, the journey of a Dollar both begins and ends with the US Government.

                  Here's an example, someone receives a $600 stimulus check next week direct deposited to their bank account. What happens behind the scenes is the Treasury Department (electronically) tells the bank to add $600 to the account belonging to that person. At that point, $600 appears out of thin air. Let's say that the person in question is a 1099 worker (maybe he's a DoorDasher) and therefore hasn't had any taxes automatically withheld. So, he decides not to touch this money and March rolls around. Now, this person is doing his taxes, and let's assume that he owes $600 in federal tax. Once he files and allows the IRS to take a direct withdrawal from his account, the Treasury Department contacts the bank and has them remove $600 from that account. This causes that same $600 to disappear back into the aether from whence it came. This is the same thing that happens when the Treasury Department pays anyone. Money appears when the government pays people and businesses and it disappears when people pay the government. If those numbers were perfectly balanced every year (a balanced budget) then the amount of money in circulation from year to year wouldn't change but, our GDP is constantly growing so the same amount of money would be chasing more stuff leading to deflation and even worse trade deficits because the US Dollar would get too strong compared to other currencies. Even worse, if the government were to start taxing more than it spends (a budget surplus) then the total number of dollars in circulation would decrease which can't happen for very long before you simply run out of dollars.

                  This section is simply to say, for nations that print their own currency and only issue sovereign debt in their own currency, the only worry is inflation and even that can be managed. Treasury debt instruments are simply safe savings elements for people either too wealthy to use just banks (FDIC insurance only goes so far) or for people who actually want to see some growth of their savings (interest rates are quite low right now for savings accounts).

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                  • icon
                    PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:34am

                    Re: Re: Re:

                    "Sweeden has been an unmitigated disaster and even they had a partial lockdown. Sweeden has had many more deaths per capita than their neighbor nations who did go into full lockdowns."

                    It's spelled "Sweden" ;)

                    But, basically, he's just confirming how intellectually incurious his type are. They were told that early on in the pandemic that Sweden seemed to be doing as well or better than countries that needed to have lockdowns, and he was told to believe that this meant the lockdowns were unnecessary rather than simply the fact that Sweden has a naturally more socially distanced way of live than, say Spain or Italy.

                    However, he had not looked to update his ideas, and the people who told him to think that Sweden were doing great have not thought to admit to him that they were wrong and it's not a major disaster with them having suffered worse from the pandemic in terms of infections and deaths, while simultaneously having the same or worse economic problems.

                    Basically anyone still saying "Sweden" still thinks they're living in April 2020, while the rest of us are discussing why so many avoidable problems have occurred since then.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:29am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      I seem to recall Italy and South Korea as the model examples of how to handle covid cases. What's happening in those countries right now? shock Huge spikes in cases. See I can do what you do too.

                      No matter what measure are taken YOU WILL GET COVID. Well unless you kill everything living on the planet maybe. Oh wait scientist recently discovered a 4500 year old virus that was still "alive". So if time and ice could stop it how in sam hell is your shitty masks and forcing everyone to stay home gonna stop it? All these stupid measures are doing is just kicking the can down the road. It's gonna happen. But, keep on living in your little bubble thinking your dirty mask with save you.

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                      • icon
                        PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:09am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        "I seem to recall Italy and South Korea as the model examples of how to handle covid cases"

                        Italy opened up too quickly, a mistake also made in Spain. I'm not as sure about SK, but the pattern seems to be these things happen when people let their guard down. Many lives were clearly saved, though.

                        What's your alternative? Let it spread uncontrolled, which will leave at least 4 million Americans dead on a basic estimate, plus an unknown number of long term health issues, not to mention all the damage done to dealing with non-COVID problems.

                        "No matter what measure are taken YOU WILL GET COVID"

                        Weird, I don't have it, and that's less than 0.01% of people in the town where I live that's had it in total. I wonder if that's because it was taken seriously here?

                        "Oh wait scientist recently discovered a 4500 year old virus that was still "alive"."

                        Your ignorance is breathtaking. Which is used to sterilise things more commonly - heat or cold? There's a reason for that. See if you can work it out.

                        "All these stupid measures are doing is just kicking the can down the road. It's gonna happen."

                        Which is why you spent your childhood afraid of catching smallpox and polio and being ravaged by the Spanish flu - no disease can be prevented. Wait...

                        "But, keep on living in your little bubble thinking your dirty mask with save you."

                        Oh, here's a quick hint - if your mask is dirty it probably won't do much. You should probably listen to doctors more - you know, the guys that have been wearing masks for decades in order to ensure that idiots like you don't get infected when you're at your most vulnerable.

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                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:36am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          "Weird, I don't have it"

                          Welp that's it! The measures work destroying the country worked! So glad you haven't gotten it YET.

                          " Which is used to sterilise things more commonly - heat or cold?"

                          Both actually. Look it up and see why.

                          "no disease can be prevented. Wait..."

                          Oh no legionnaires disease came back! Oh no the black plague came back! Oh no the flu has yet to be eradicated. Oh no polio has come back. But I though you said that diseases could be prevented....

                          "should probably listen to doctors more"

                          You mean the same doctors that up until recently called for healthy people not to wear masks? Oh you mean just the ones that you like, gotcha. Maybe you should listen to your own advice. How often do you change your mask? How often to you sanitize everything? See the difference between you and doctors is that they change their mask after every patient. You keep wearing yours. But, I thought you said to change them if they are dirty? Which is it?

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                            PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:09am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            "Weird, I don't have it"

                            Which is not what I said, but you do seem to have a need to invent strawmen.

                            "You mean the same doctors that up until recently called for healthy people not to wear masks?"

                            No, the doctors who suggested that masks were not necessary when it was believed that the virus was mainly spread through contact and wanted to prevent a run on N95 masks that would cause problems for professionals that needed them, and then changed their advice when new data suggested that non-medical grade masks would be effective among the general population. You know, the ones who changed their advice after only a few weeks when new data was available, but that idiots obsess over despite their advice having proven effective since then among populations who aren't refusing to do the bare minimum requested?

                            You know, the ones that exist in reality, not the pathetic threadbare strawman version you erect to avoid responsibility.

                            "You keep wearing yours. But, I thought you said to change them if they are dirty?"

                            I love the way that your pathetic imagination can't conceive of washing a mask, having multiple masks or using disposable ones. Maybe this is why where I live is relatively free of the pandemic, where you are vastly disproportionately failing?

                            "See the difference between you and doctors is that they change their mask after every patient."

                            No, there's other differences - for example, I don't come into contact with sick people as part of my day to day work activity. Also, did you know that wearing a mask is to spread others not yourself? I do far more good in that area through following social distancing and other guidelines, things that you keep forgetting while obsessing over having to wear an extra piece of clothing when you drag yourself outside unnecessarily.

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                              Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 7:48am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              and then changed their advice when new data suggested that non-medical grade masks would be effective among the general population

                              To be fair, they knew all along that masks help prevent the spread of disease. We all knew already that COVID-19 was spread through the air and at greater distances than 6 feet, even back when medical professionals were saying the general populace didn't need to wear masks.

                              The only reason they told us not to wear them was to prevent a run on masks that left ill-prepared medical facilities short on supplies.

                              They straight up lied to us. They knew it and many of us knew it. They did it for sensible reasons but let's not sugar-coat their lies.

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                              • icon
                                PaulT (profile), 31 Dec 2020 @ 1:30am

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                "The only reason they told us not to wear them was to prevent a run on masks that left ill-prepared medical facilities short on supplies."

                                Which is not a problem. As we keep seeing, the general public is not always capable of dealing with the unvarnished truth, and we have seen that simply supplying the facts does not prevent medical staff from being left in a dangerous situations. by people who are trying to hoard or profiteers from the supplies they need.

                                I still wouldn't call it a straight up lie, as there was real doubt early on about how effective non-N95 masks would be, and there was no doubt over who needed that grade of masks the most. But, if they had to mislead the population to safeguard vital supplies in a system unprepared to deal with this kind of disaster, the ultimate fault does not lie with the doctors. It lies on the system that made this an issue, and the orange idiot who fired the very pandemic team whose job it was to ensure the system was prepared for exactly this kind of event.

                                "They straight up lied to us"

                                If true, so what? They still have a far greater credibility and trustworthiness than the politicians who have been barraging you with lies about the pandemic in order to protect their lobbyist's stock values, which mean more to them than the human lives the doctors have been trying to protect..

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                                • icon
                                  That One Guy (profile), 31 Dec 2020 @ 11:30am

                                  'Why should I trust you this time when you lied last time?'

                                  The problem is that reputations are like glass sculptures, really easy to shatter and incredibly difficult to fix.

                                  That they may have had a good reason to lie does not mean that it won't have consequences, potentially dire ones, in this case people pointing to the fact that they lied on one thing so how can they be trusted when they say something else.

                                  If the concern was preventing people from hoarding masks so that medical personnel would be able to secure enough then they'd have been much better off not saying anything concrete relating to masks until that point, by lying they harmed their credibility in a time where having people trust what they say is of vital importance, both immediately and because damaging their credibility like that leaves an opening for others like the politicians you mentioned to exploit, magnifying the potential harm.

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                          • icon
                            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:16am

                            up until recently

                            Guidance on whether we should all wear face masks changed months ago. And the current best guidance is that while certain types of masks are considered superior in terms of preventing the spread of COVID (and other diseases that spread the same way), any mask that offer proper mouth coverage, fits snugly on the jawline and cheeks, and isn’t as thin as a sheet of notebook paper is going to help prevent the spread to some degree.

                            It’s not about wearing a mask to protect yourself. It’s about wearing a mask to help protect everyone else — especially if you happen to be an asymptomatic carrier of the virus or, as will be the case over the next few months for a lot of people, you’ve been vaccinated against COVID but don’t want to risk catching it and spreading it to people who haven’t yet gotten the vaccine. Wearing a mask isn’t political, it’s social — specifically, it’s an act of social good that shows you care enough to keep others from possibly getting sick should you be carrying a virus that might make them sick.

                            I can’t make you wear a mask. But I can ask what good you think not wearing one will do when one of the best things an average American can do to help stem the spread of COVID is to wear a mask.

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                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:37am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        A major objective of lockdown is to slow the spread so that health services are not overwhelmed. If the do become overwhelmed, which is happening in California, it is not just covid sufferers who will die due to lack of hospital resources, but anybody who need urgent care but cannot be found a hospital bed.

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                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:44am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          They wouldn't be overwhelmed if this was allowed to play out naturally. The spikes would be longer drawn out giving healthcare services the ability to keep up. The way things are now is: lockdown>lockdown lifts> huge spike due to people going about their lives> healthcare can't keep up > lockdown > lockdown lifts> huge spike due to people going about their lives> healthcare can't keep up > rinse and repeat.

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                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:26am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            Compressing the last 9 months worth of covid cases into 3 months would have driven health systems into collapse. Multiple smaller spikes are an improvement over one huge spike.

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                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:13am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            "They wouldn't be overwhelmed if this was allowed to play out naturally. The spikes would be longer drawn out giving healthcare services the ability to keep up."

                            Play out naturally - we are all lemmings and the cliff in front of us is simply a natural occurrence that should not be alarming at all. (yes, I know they do not commit mass suicide)

                            How long does it take for healthcare workers to be replaced versus how many healthcare workers are leaving the field? I have not done the math but my scientific wild ass guess is that we are losing more healthcare workers than are being replaced at a time in which this is a huge problem. So, I guess I do not understand what you mean by giving healthcare services the ability to keep up, you are not giving anyone anything but a virus.

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                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:58am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Do you really not know that the mask is there to protect other people from receiving the moisture droplets that are expelled from your nose and mouth when breathing, talking and coughing?

                        You do realise doctors and surgeons have been using masks to do this successfully for many, many years now?

                        You do realise this is how covid spreads, right?

                        You right wingers really are selfish fucks.

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                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 7:43am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        how in sam hell is your shitty masks and forcing everyone to stay home gonna stop it?

                        They're not. They're going to slow down the rate of infection. This does two things:

                        1. Prevents hospitals from getting overwhelmed and not being able to care for everyone who needs it. If/when you catch the virus and happen to need intensive medical care, wouldn't you like to be able to receive it rather than dying in a hallway or parking lot?

                        2. Buys time to develop vaccines that will be able to prevent catching COVID.

                        Both of these things are aimed at preventing deaths that could have been avoided. You people who refuse to wear masks, refuse to take the vaccine and complain that you can't go lick barstools because some assholes closed down your favorite watering hole don't deserve medical care for COVID at all.

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                • icon
                  Toom1275 (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:59am

                  Re: Re:

                  Back in the real world, fighting the pandemic and preserving the economy are one and the same, and never has either been a Republican goal.

                  It takes a special kind a stupod to believe that crippling ~1/3 of the workforce for years could possibly be better for the economy than a couple-month paid slowdown.

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                    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:40am

                    Re: Re: Re:

                    But, it hasn't been a couple month paid slowdown has it? It hasn't been two weeks to flatten the curve either. The economy is crippled already and it will only get worse the longer these useless lockdowns and measures continue. Why do you people think continuing to try something that hasn't worked will eventually work? States with mask mandates are on par with states that don't. Same goes for lockdowns. How is continuing to lock healthy people in their homes gonna save the economy?

                    The Dems haven't been helpful either. So both sides are to blame.

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:06am

                      The economy is crippled already and it will only get worse the longer these useless lockdowns and measures continue.

                      Allowing the virus to kill millions (including children) and worsen the health of millions more (including young people who will theoretically be part of the workforce for decades) won’t do the economy any favors, either. So what’s the solution?

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:42am

                        Re:

                        " So what’s the solution?"

                        You tell me. You seem to be the one with all the answers. Tell me how we can keep everyone at home, fed, mentally sound, and employed that doesn't include causing hyper inflation. If you can come up with a solution that doesn't put future generations in mountains of debt I will be the first in line to do it. Masks haven't worked (the minuscule amount of people not wearing them doesn't affect anything noticeable on a national scale), social distancing hasn't worked but I do support this as I hate people, lockdowns don't work. So what now?

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                        • icon
                          PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:55am

                          Re: Re:

                          "Masks haven't worked (the minuscule amount of people not wearing them doesn't affect anything noticeable on a national scale), social distancing hasn't worked, lockdowns don't work"

                          They did, just not in the US. Maybe the problem isn't the medical advice?

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:26am

                          Re: Re:

                          "the minuscule amount of people not wearing them doesn't affect anything noticeable on a national scale"

                          Are you actively working upon your thesis or just gathering background data? I am very interested in a subscription to your newsletter. Perhaps you could give me a preliminary glance at your work, it must be very interesting. Did you include the religious gatherings where hundreds of followers stood side by side indoors sans masks singing and rejoicing for extended periods of time?

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 7:56am

                          Re: Re:

                          Masks haven't worked, social distancing hasn't worked

                          Bullshit they haven't. They've slowed the spread of this virus for everyone who actually does both. People catching the virus are those who didn't wear masks or at least failed to socially distance. I can wear my mask all day every day and it won't prevent you from catching the virus due to your inability to do a couple simple things to avoid it.

                          You can't blame good sense for failing when bad sense is so prevalent.

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                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:19am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "But, it hasn't been a couple month paid slowdown has it?"

                      Because morons without masks?

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                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 7:51am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      If all the idiots who went back to previous behaviors prematurely hadn't done so then the curve would have been flattened and stayed that way. Instead, selfish pricks stopped wearing masks, attended large gatherings in close proximity with maskless others and brought about not one but two additional spikes in cases.

                      You are to blame.

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                    • icon
                      Toom1275 (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 9:21am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Nice try ignoring the the part where a few months of paid shutdown is what would have happened if we had more Democrats and less murder cultists like you.

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            • icon
              PaulT (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:54pm

              Re: Re:

              "How is having perpetual lockdowns, people homeless, starving, dying, and destroying the economy gonna help things?"

              Ask the countries that managed this situation correctly and have zero cases or close to it, rather than the country whose leader held superspreader events and is experiencing more deaths every day than happened on 9/11.

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                Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:42am

                Re: Re: Re:

                What countries would that be? And the democrats held superspreader events too dingus.

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                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:56am

                  They didn’t hold nearly as many such events as conservatives/Republicans, who practically reveled in throwing such events as a way to “own the libs” and say “we can get back to normal now”…only to watch cases spike in those areas two weeks later because “owning the libs” apparently involves getting COVID.

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                    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:25am

                    Re:

                    You have proof of this or just more talking out your ass? There were huge trump rallies in my state and no spike in cases. Just like how the dems said that seeing your family would cause huge spikes yet nothing happened. News station reported that cases actually went down in some states, mine included. More fake news right?

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:05am

                      There were huge trump rallies in my state and no spike in cases.

                      Spikes don’t happen the day after superspreader events. They happen at least a week afterwards. Check your info again.

                      Just like how the dems said that seeing your family would cause huge spikes yet nothing happened.

                      What do you think caused the current spike in cases and deaths nationwide? Because I’m pretty sure it has to do with the amount of travel and the number of large family/religious gatherings where people didn’t observe proper anti-COVID protocols that happened over, say, a major holiday weekend that occured just over a month ago. (Expect to see another major spike nationwide in another week or so for the same reason.)

                      News station reported that cases actually went down in some states, mine included. More fake news right?

                      Cases in some states can go down while other states can see their cases rise. It all depends on how seriously those states treat the pandemic, how many people live in that state, and a host of other factors. It isn’t as simple as “COVID going down, therefore nothing is wrong” — especially since the average death rate continues to slowly climb on a daily basis. We’re up to, what, an average of 2,000-plus per day now? In early July, that number was in the 500–700 range. Six of the deadliest days of the pandemic to date occured in this month alone (and there are still two days left).

                      Stop acting like pandemic this is ending soon. Stop acting like there’s a one-size-fits-all explanation for why some states have a rise in cases and some states don’t. COVID is more complex than black-and-white, good-and-evil, North-and-South thinking. Get used to the idea that both information and situations change as time goes on, then find a credible source of COVID information that isn’t a right-wing circlejerk dedicated to kissing Trump’s ass.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:44am

                        Re:

                        "hat do you think caused the current spike in cases and deaths nationwide? "

                        Correlation does not imply causation. Right? So if there is a huge spike I can blame it on the nationwide Biden celebrations right? Hey you said rallies cause the spikes.

                        "Stop acting like there’s a one-size-fits-all explanation for why some states have a rise in cases and some states don’t"

                        Yet again accusing me of what you are doing yourself. Don't see the hypocrisy do you?

                        " find a credible source of COVID information that isn’t a right-wing circlejerk dedicated to kissing Trump’s ass."

                        find a credible source of COVID information that isn’t a left-wing circlejerk dedicated to kissing Biden’s ass.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:00am

                          if there is a huge spike I can blame it on the nationwide Biden celebrations right?

                          If there were pro-Biden celebrations on the level of Trump rallies, probably. But I don’t recall hearing about those kinds of celebrations after Biden was declared the winner, and his pre-election rallies — while not perfect — did more to respect anti-COVID measures than Trump’s ever did.

                          Yet again accusing me of what you are doing yourself.

                          Except I’m not.

                          I’m willing to admit that there may be more than one cause for the recent spike in cases — Thanksgiving travel/family gatherings, large religious gatherings (Thanksgiving-related or not), political rallies (no matter who they’re for), people getting fed up with COVID restrictions and no longer doing them because “fuck you I’m a patriot”, or any cause that could be driving these spikes but I can’t/haven’t thought of. And yes, there isn’t a single explanation for all the spikes that applies to every state; that much is true. But we can make educated guesses as to the major causes of these spikes based on what we know about how the virus infects others, what we know about how long it can be in the body before someone starts showing symptoms (assuming they do show symptoms), and the timing of any major events that would see people gather in large numbers within, or travel to, COVID “hotspots”.

                          find a credible source of COVID information that isn’t a left-wing circlejerk dedicated to kissing Biden’s ass

                          Done.

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                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:38am

                            Re:

                            "But I don’t recall hearing about those kinds of celebrations after Biden was declared the winner"

                            You must not really get out much: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-54856199

                            https://www.google.com/search?q=biden+celebrati ons&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

                            "Except I’m not."

                            You keep changing your tune. You were first saying it was just the rallies for trump and Thanksgiving. Now you list all these other things out when confronted. Your replies keep changing your stance and your opinion keeps changing with each reply. And there has been no asymptomatic transmission shown at all. So just cutting that line of thinking off.

                            "Done."

                            Uhh no. That is just numbers not a source of anything COVID related other than cases/deaths/recovery. B+ for effort though.

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                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:29am

                      Re: Re:

                      "yet nothing happened"

                      and the death toll is now at over 400 thousand, just in the us

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:30pm

          Re: Re: Re: Reopen the economy

          A proper thinning of the herd. People can always be put back in business through help loans etc. People go broke and get rich all the time.

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            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:07pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Reopen the economy

            Who is gonna fund those magic loans when no one has any money to invest? People live and die all the time so why are you scared of a virus?

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:15am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Reopen the economy

            "A proper thinning of the herd."

            I thought that is what war is for.

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            • identicon
              David, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:55am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reopen the economy

              War primarily kills the most able-bodied citizens. COVID-19 primarily kills the frail.

              For thinning of a herd, the latter seems like a good idea.

              Problem with herds of humans is that humans have a big brain, brains acquire knowledge that benefit the whole herd, and some of the most valuable treasure troves of knowledge sit in frail bodies.

              Maybe killing people either way is not the best idea.

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        • icon
          techflaws (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:43pm

          Re: Re: Re: Reopen the economy

          Did you know that in Japan 6 year olds are now killing themselves
          due to the lock downs

          Yeah, right.

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    • identicon
      Big Chicken, 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:00pm

      Re: Reopen the economy

      I'm no medical doctor so I don't get any respect either, not that anyone would listen to me anyway ... but ahhhhh - had everyone just worn the damn masks from day one, we would possibly be on our way back to what everyone calls normal by now. But Noooooo, can't do that now can we?

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      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:10pm

        'I'll do anything for my country... except wear a mask.'

        It's the ultimate punchline that if people had just sucked it up, not been such petty and selfish assholes and acted responsibly the pandemic in the US almost certainly would have been infinitely more minor in both bodycount and long-term impact on the economy, but because of stupid and/or selfish assholes who refuse to act responsibly because 'mah freedoms matter more than your life!' it's still raging out of control, killing thousands on a regular basis and screwing with the economy all the while.

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          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:58pm

          Re: 'I'll do anything for my country... except wear a mask.'

          the masks don't do shit and you know it, the CDC knows it, the WHO knows it, Saint Fauci knows it. Look at all the states that have mask mandates and compare that to the rise in cases. Every time a mandate went into effect the cases rose. And no it's not because people aren't wearing masks you dolt. When mandates go into effect the number of people wearing them INCREASES so the cases should level out or go down if the masks actually work. South Korea, China, Japan, North Korea all wear masks 24/7 and look what is going on there. Multiple waves, huge spikes in cases, spikes in death. But, keep on wearing your mask thinking you are saving the world. When was the last time you changed it? Washed it? Touched it? Yeah that's what I thought.

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          • icon
            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:56pm

            I bet you’re the kind of person who expects everybody to listen to you when you talk.

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          • icon
            Mike Masnick (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:25pm

            Re: Re: 'I'll do anything for my country... except wear a mask.'

            the masks don't do shit and you know it

            This has been proven false over and over again. Masks are not perfect, but they absolutely do help prevent the spread and lessen the likelihood of spreading the disease.

            Look at all the states that have mask mandates and compare that to the rise in cases. Every time a mandate went into effect the cases rose.

            You don't think that there may have been other factors involved? Correlation/not causation etc etc.

            I actually can understand the arguments against mask mandates, because people should just know better and wear masks. But the fact that incredibly stupid people like you insist masks don't work shows exactly why the mandates are needed. To protect the world from idiots like you.

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              Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:34pm

              Re: Re: Re: 'I'll do anything for my country... except wear a ma

              Mask, until recently, were advised AGAINST for healthy people. The CDC published numerous studies showing cloth and paper masks got nurses and doctors sicker than those not wearing anything or a real mask. Saint Fauci even advised against wearing masks if you are healthy. Med school teaches that only the sick need masks.

              So if the mask mandates don't result in spikes why is it only in the states with the mandates that the cases seem to spike right around the same time the mandates are put into effect? Why are all the countries that wear masks longer than we have having surges? The government is not responsible for your safety or your health only you are. I don't need some flipflopping hack telling me how a mask, staying home, and fearing everything is gonna save my life then go ahead do everything he advises against. But, keep on drinking that Kool-Aid.

              So maybe the world needs protecting from idiots like you that push false narratives just to make yourself feel good.

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              • icon
                Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:29pm

                Mask, until recently, were advised AGAINST for healthy people.

                And the advisories changed as we learned more about the disease and how to best stop its spread. Situations change; information changes. Adapt or perish — make your choice.

                The CDC published numerous studies showing cloth and paper masks got nurses and doctors sicker than those not wearing anything or a real mask.

                It’s almost as if nurses and doctors didn’t have access to large numbers of the kinds of masks that do protect against the spread of viruses like COVID-19. Imagine that~.

                if the mask mandates don't result in spikes why is it only in the states with the mandates that the cases seem to spike right around the same time the mandates are put into effect?

                correlation ≠ causation

                The rise in cases could be (and is most likely) due to people getting fed up with all the lockdown/mask mandate bullshit and defying those measures…which helps the virus spread faster since people who stop giving (or never gave) a shit about the state of the collective public health tend to be the ones who are more likely to spread the disease.

                Notice how spikes happened after large social gatherings such as church services, MAGA rallies, and Thanksgiving celebrations? The virus doesn’t give a shit about your religion, your political affiliation, or your desire to see your family. It spreads to the uninfected when someone decides their peace of mind is more important than keeping others around them from dying (or killing them).

                The government is not responsible for your safety or your health only you are.

                The government should be responsible for keeping the collective health of the public from becoming so dire that hospitals legitimately have to decide which COVID patients they’ll treat. That means having a plan for a national health crisis, using that plan, and getting the states on board with that plan. What the fuck should the government do, if not help its citizens?

                maybe the world needs protecting from idiots like you that push false narratives just to make yourself feel good

                No, the world needs protection from assholes like you who think the economy would be just fine if we had a few more thousand dead people and no shutdowns/mask mandates. And in three weeks, one of those assholes won’t be the president of the United States any more.

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                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:40am

                  Re:

                  if the mask mandates don't result in spikes why is it only in the states with the mandates that the cases seem to spike right around the same time the mandates are put into effect?

                  Because those mandates are usually put into effect because of rising cases, and there is a delay between the mandate going into effect and a reduction in cases.

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              • icon
                Toom1275 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 7:52pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: 'I'll do anything for my country... except wear

                You know you don't need to type anywhere near as many words to convey your message that you're a reality-decoupled moron, right?

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:43pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 'I'll do anything for my country... except w

                  Says the brain dead morons that are gobbling up all the "BELIEVE SCIENCE! EXCEPT THE OLD SCIENCE THE NEW SCIENCE!" Gonna change your tune when the science changes again or are you gonna saw that the new new new new science is wrong? Everyone here is pathetic and a burden to society by calling for more lockdowns more mandates and more stimulus money funded by hopes and dreams. This generation is so far up each others asses then can't see that they are full of shit. Or maybe they like the taste so they keep digging in?

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                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:55pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    So you got your bleach and chloroquine injections like a good citizen then? Who needs science when you have Trump, right?

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                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:19pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Nah that's bs too. Same with all the other woomedicine out there and fake doctors spreading as much bs as Fauci/CDC/WHO.

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                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:41pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Thanks for confirming Trump spouted BS, champ.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:28pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Thanks for confirming Fauci/CDC/WHO spout bs sucker.

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                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:49pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            I tried being a sucker, but your team cornered the monopoly on that after throwing your money behind a guy who didn't put Hilary in jail or build the wall Mexico was supposed to pay for. Four years you had to do absolute fuck all and you couldn't even do that properly.

                            Next time, try wiping the cum smears off your lip first.

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                              Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:46am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              Is that all you have for talking points? Duh wall and Hilary. Your soon to be dictator has had 47+ years to fix shit and he has nothing or did you forget that? And the hell does your last comment mean? You like fantasizing about blowing old dudes? Well, you probably do as you are a cheerleader for Biden.

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                              • icon
                                Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:54am

                                Last time I checked, between Biden and Trump, only one of them is a wannabe dictator — and I’m pretty sure it’s the guy who lost the election and wants the results thrown out by state legislatures, courts, and now Congress/the vice president despite offering absolutely no credible evidence that proves the election results should be thrown out.

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                                  Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:22am

                                  Re:

                                  So the videos, testimonies, ect are not proof of voter fraud? I seem to recall a certain group claiming Russia interfered with the election WITHOUT any evidence. They are still claiming this! But, now all of the sudden this election is the securest election in the history of the world. Why? Because Biden won? Bullshit. Biden wouldn't have won without the fraud. And explain to me how Trump is a dictator. I see this thrown around a lot by people that don't know what it means. People that just regurgitate CNN talking points.

                                  Again stop ignoring how Biden has done jack all for this country. Biden had over 40 years to effect change and didn't. All he has done is create more war and debt. Anything to get rid of Trump though right? Probably would have voted for Hitler if he was on the ballot for the dems.

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                                  • icon
                                    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:48am

                                    So the videos, testimonies, ect are not proof of voter fraud?

                                    If a court doesn’t find them credible/Trump’s legal team refuses to enter them as evidence in a legal proceeding? No, they’re not. And even if they were credible, they don’t prove that voter/electoral fraud happened in the amount necessary to swing even one state, let alone several, for Joe Biden. And even if that amount of fraud actually did happen, it makes no sense for the Democrats to rig the presidential election but forgo rigging the Senate elections that would give them control of Congress.

                                    I seem to recall a certain group claiming Russia interfered with the election WITHOUT any evidence. They are still claiming this!

                                    There was plenty of evidence that Russia interfered with our elections via disinformation campaigns. That you ignored it is your own fault.

                                    explain to me how Trump is a dictator

                                    I said he is a wannabe dictator, and that is objectively true. He treats fascists like Putin, Kim Jong-Un, and Erdogan as if we should all admire them. He once said of China’s president becoming president for life that he thought that should be tried in the U.S. He has “joked” about trying to serve more than two terms as president — which would violate the Constitution. He wants an election result unfavorable to him tossed out without evidence of widescale voter/electoral fraud that proves the election should be tossed out and to be proclaimed the winner. If you believe the anecdotes provided to the media by anonymous White House staffers, he at least considered the idea of enacting martial law to “redo” the election. He said, and likely still believes, that Article II of the Constituion gives him the power to do anything he wants. He put his family in cushy positions they neither earned nor deserved, did favors for his friends (e.g., pardons for war-crime-committing child killers), and otherwise put his interests before those of the American people. Oh, and did I mention that he told violent racists like the Proud Boys to “stand by” in case he lost the election?

                                    Joe Biden didn’t do any of that shit. Donald Trump did. But sure, tell me more about how Trump isn’t someone who would proclaim himself godking of America for life (and hand the role down to one of his idiot children upon his death) if he thought he could get away with doing that.

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                                      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:03am

                                      Re:

                                      "if the evidence was credible it doesn't prove fraud"

                                      Umm what?

                                      In regards to the Russia thing, it was proven there was NO interference. So years wasted on a frivolous case. The same thing you are accusing trump of. There is more evidence of voter fraud this time around than you claim for any Russian interference. And who went on a disinformation campaign this time around? Who censored anything Trump related during the election? Shit, who called election that everyone is taken as gospel. Just because it was committed by our own companies doesn't mean it didn't happen.

                                      And what politician doesn't put his own interests before that of the nation? Even ya boi Biden has and does. Also the Proud Boys are a damn joke. A bunch of drunks with loud mouths. So yeah he really tried starting a civil war with that man. Phew, glad Antifa was there to save us.

                                      "Joe Biden didn’t do any of that shit."

                                      Umm yeah he has and does. Same for his idiot pedo kid. Doesn't China support Biden? Doesn't Russia support Biden too?

                                      "But sure, tell me more about how Trump isn’t someone who would proclaim himself godking of America for life (and hand the role down to one of his idiot children upon his death) if he thought he could get away with doing that."

                                      Actually I am pretty sure he would do that. Just like all the trumpers are calling for martial law and force a re-election at the end of a gun. Also pretty sure all presidents would do that if they could get away with it. I remember a certain president trying for his third term causing a two term law to be passed.

                                      I don't even know why I bother arguing with someone that throws his votes away cause he hates anything republic. Whose moral compass is so screwed up he couldn't find his way out of a paper bag. Though these "conversations" have shown me just how brain dead the dem side is. Pretty much on par with the repub side.

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                                      • icon
                                        PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:15am

                                        Re: Re:

                                        "In regards to the Russia thing, it was proven there was NO interference"

                                        You might want to re-read the actual findings, you seem to have been misled.

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                                        • identicon
                                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:37am

                                          Re: Re: Re:

                                          Oh, I'm sure they did their homework, study it out they did, watched a few youtube videos and that is all they need to be convinced, and they a b absolutely know that they are right.

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                                      • icon
                                        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:21am

                                        Umm what?

                                        Evidence can prove voter/electoral fraud of some sort took place without proving that it happened at a scale that would swing an entire state (never mind several states). It isn’t an either-or proposition.

                                        it was proven there was NO interference

                                        Maybe not with actual voting, but in terms of disinformation campaigns, that was pretty conclusively proven.

                                        Who censored anything Trump related during the election?

                                        Nobody. Twitter slapping a “this information is disputed” warning label on Trump tweets isn’t censorship.

                                        who called election that everyone is taken as gospel

                                        Every major media network — including Fox News — called it.

                                        Same for his idiot pedo kid. Doesn't China support Biden? Doesn't Russia support Biden too?

                                        The “Hunter Biden’s computer” story is a fucking joke, and both China and Russia will do what they think is in their best interests — which, in this case, is playing nice with the incoming administration.

                                        pretty sure all presidents would do that if they could get away with it

                                        Then given how there is a two-month period between the election and the inauguration every time we have a presidential election, how come no president havs ever tried to do during their lame duck periods what Donald Trump has done in his (so far) for the sake of assuming dictatorial power?

                                        Whose moral compass is so screwed up he couldn't find his way out of a paper bag

                                        My moral compass is just fine, thanks. Capitalism is fucking us all, being a billionaire is unethical, queer lives matter, Black lives matter, climate change is real and we know who’s causing the vast majority of it, man survives alone but thrives in a society (and people beliving the opposite is why we’re all kind of fucked right now), piracy of works released by certain anti-consumer megacorporations is 100% morally righteous, health care should be a human right and gun ownership a privilege instead of the other way around, women should have the choice to have an abortion even if their answer is “no”, rapists shouldn’t have parental rights over the children they conceived via rape, police across the country need massive reform (including a lowering in funding and a refusal to give departments a whole bunch of military gear), and violence is morally righteous only when used in defense of self or others.

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                                          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:07am

                                          Re:

                                          " It isn’t an either-or proposition."

                                          But your comments are saying just that.

                                          "Maybe not with actual voting,"

                                          Oh now there's no evidence of voter fraud? Which is it? Maybe keep a notepad with what you have said so you don't contradict what you say. You also said there was no evidence of voter fraud with this election and that any evidence wouldn't mean there was fraud. See why I say your moral compass is screwed up?

                                          "Nobody. Twitter slapping a “this information is disputed” warning label on Trump tweets isn’t censorship."

                                          Bullshit. Entire tweets had been removed, accounts deleted, and not just on Twitter either. There was censorship on a massive scale. Also placing those warnings is a form of censorship. Even if something is verified to be 100% factual, just because they don't like it the label gets slapped on.

                                          "Every major media network — including Fox News — called it."

                                          After the AP did. And you do know news stations do NOT call the election right? Biden is not even the "president elect" yet. Not till the EC does their thing.

                                          "Then given how there is a two-month period ..."

                                          Oh screw you. You know damn well what I was getting at. Trump has not tried to take over the election like your precious dems said he would. Has he declared martial law? No. Has he announced he refuses to leave? No. He is already working on moving out, the transition is taking place. Guess you didn't see that news did you? Small bubble and all that.

                                          "My moral compass is just fine"

                                          It's not.

                                          "Capitalism is fucking us all"

                                          And what is your solution? Socialism? Bahaha cause that is working so well for all the other countries present and past.

                                          "queer lives matter, Black lives matter"

                                          All lives matter pal. When you break everyone into their own separate groups that is how you get the mess we are in now. Good job continuing the division you claim to fight against.

                                          "man survives alone but thrives in a society (and people believing the opposite is why we’re all kind of fucked right now"

                                          But, let's keep everyone locked up till the big scary virus is gone. You think we are all screwed up now wait till next year if this continues. We are already seeing huge spikes in crime and huge spikes in mental degradation. I'm proof of it. Yes I said it. I am not normally like this but, I have so much time on my hands after being laid off in February that I stay up late arguing with words on a screen. Even if I don't make sense or I am a jackass doing it. This time last year I probably wouldn't even argue. I would just laugh and move on. I want the economy to open up so I can get back to work and not kill myself, like I contemplate on a daily basis, or starve to death, or stop living in a shelter. So these measures will have long lasting effects. Effects that will outlive the pandemic. Just because they are visible now doesn't mean they aren't there and all the human garbage that downplay it can go straight to hell.

                                          "health care should be a human right and gun ownership a privilege instead of the other way around"

                                          They should both be inalienable rights. Just because you are scared of guns doesn't me you have the right to keep me from having one.

                                          "women should have the choice to have an abortion even if their answer is “no”"

                                          They should also be charged with murder if the baby has a heartbeat. Where do you draw the line? At conception? At birth? 6 weeks? 9 weeks? I also think there should be huge criminal consequences for women that can't keep their legs closed. Get laid then vacuum out their regret.

                                          "rapists shouldn’t have parental rights over the children they conceived via rape, police across the country need massive reform (including a lowering in funding and a refusal to give departments a whole bunch of military gear), and violence is morally righteous only when used in defense of self or others."

                                          I agree with 95% of what you said. The only thing I don't agree with is the lowering in funding. How the hell do you expect to have reform if there isn't money for training? Less training is why our police are the way they are. I would also add removing qualified immunity across the board. I don't think anyone should be "immune" just because of the position they hold. The military surplus is due to the lower funding and the increase in heavily armed criminals. Gun laws don't work either so more gun laws won't work. Though I don't think they should act like a branch of the military like they do now. This can be achieved with more training and increasing the hiring standards for law enforcement.

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                                          • identicon
                                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:09am

                                            Re: Re:

                                            Yeah, there was voter fraud. By an incompetent republican, who was caught and is gonna end up inside for a few years.

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                                          • icon
                                            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:57am

                                            It’s late/early, and I need to deal with some shit, so this is my last reply to you on this comments section. Reply or don’t; I don’t give a fuck.

                                            But your comments are saying just that.

                                            No, they’re not. Voter/electoral fraud can happen with or without happening in such large numbers that it requires throwing out an entire election. It’s not a case of “either massive fraud happened or no fraud happened”; it’s a matter of “if fraud happened, we need to see how much fraud happened before we toss an election”.

                                            now there's no evidence of voter fraud? Which is it?

                                            I said there was no credible evidence of voter fraud. But even if we accept what the Trump legal beagles call “evidence” as credible evidence, nothing that they’ve offered proves voter/electoral fraud at a level that would change the results of even one state, let alone multiple states. (And since the results would obviously be tainted on the presidential race, every downballot race would need to be thrown out as well, since presidential ballots aren’t printed separately from the downballot races and one part of the ballot being fraudulent calls the entire ballot into question.)

                                            Entire tweets had been removed, accounts deleted, and not just on Twitter either. There was censorship on a massive scale. Also placing those warnings is a form of censorship.

                                            Moderation is not censorship. Kicking people off private property is not censorship. Adding speech to existing speech is not censorship. If you can explain exactly how they are censorship, feel free — but keep in mind that I wrote two articles for this site about exactly this notion, so you won’t be able to easily convince me that I’m wrong.

                                            After the AP did.

                                            So what?

                                            And you do know news stations do NOT call the election right?

                                            That rhetorical gimmick will not work on me.

                                            Trump has not tried to take over the election like your precious dems said he would.

                                            Only because even GOP leaders would tell him (and likely already have told him) that they won’t support him doing that shit. But if he thought he could do it and get away with it, he would. He’d consider it Putin-like, and we all know how hard Trump kisses Putin’s ass.

                                            Has he announced he refuses to leave?

                                            No, but he hasn’t announced that he will leave, either.

                                            And what is your solution? Socialism?

                                            Democratic socialism (i.e., taxing the fuck out of obscenely wealthy capitalists to pay for public works and institutions such as infrastructure and nationalized healthcare).

                                            When you break everyone into their own separate groups that is how you get the mess we are in now.

                                            No, trying to act like people who say their lives matter because they’re part of a group that has historically been told “your lives don’t matter” are also saying “people who aren’t like us don’t matter, and we’re going to fucking get revenge on them” is how we get to that mess.

                                            let's keep everyone locked up till the big scary virus is gone

                                            If you can think of a better way to stop the virus that isn’t “let millions of people die and millions more suffer long-term damage from a debilitating viral disease so we can all get herd immunity”, feel free to offer that solution.

                                            I am not normally like this but, I have so much time on my hands after being laid off in February that I stay up late arguing with words on a screen.

                                            Not as fun as you’d hoped, is it? (Trust me, I’m not having a ball over here, either.)

                                            I want the economy to open up so I can get back to work and not kill myself

                                            So do a lot of other people. But until you can guarantee that we can somehow open the economy back up in full and not cause millions of COVID deaths (and fuck the economy up the ass all over again) as a result, we’re all shit out of luck.

                                            Effects that will outlive the pandemic.

                                            COVID will do the same thing. How many people must suffer for the sake of the economy?

                                            They should also be charged with murder if the baby has a heartbeat.

                                            Does that apply to miscarriages and stillbirths that happen after the fetus has a detectable heartbeat? Does that apply to abortions done to save the life of the mother even if the fetus has a detectable heartbeat? Who gets charged and sent to jail, and for how long should they be imprisoned in what I assume will be a maximum security state penitentiary?

                                            Where do you draw the line? At conception? At birth? 6 weeks? 9 weeks?

                                            I like the Swedish model.

                                            I also think there should be huge criminal consequences for women that can't keep their legs closed.

                                            If a woman is impregnated by rape, should she suffer legal consequences because she couldn’t “keep her legs closed”? Because it sounds less like you want to punish women for having an abortion (or more than one abortion) and more like you want to punish women for having any kind of sex/being impregnated via rape. And while I disagree with the notion of “using abortion as birth control”, I’m not about to call for a woman to face “huge criminal consequences” (which reads like “life in prison” to me) for doing that.

                                            How the hell do you expect to have reform if there isn't money for training?

                                            So we don’t take money away from training. We take money away from other aspects of the police — then put it towards the kinds of social programs that can help people before they become desperate and turn to crime. We currently ask the police to do too much; easing their burden is a good first step to reform, and we can ease that burden if we defund the police and transition those funds to institutions that will help ease that burden.

                                            Less training is why our police are the way they are.

                                            No, our police are the way they are because of bad training — be it unconsciously biased towards people of color, biased towards a “war zone”/“everyone is your enemy” mindset, or some other bullshit. Cops don’t need more overall training; they need better training from the get-go.

                                            I would also add removing qualified immunity across the board. I don't think anyone should be "immune" just because of the position they hold.

                                            Look at that, we can agree on something. (Fuck qualified immunity.) 👍

                                            The military surplus is due to the lower funding and the increase in heavily armed criminals.

                                            In larger cities, I can understand the need for this kind of hardware (even though I don’t agree with the idea that the police need all of it). But PDs in smaller cities get their hands on MRAPs and shit, and they don’t need those things. And the militarization of the police goes hand-in-hand with the “war zone” training I mentioned to make the average officer think they have to treat everyone who isn’t a cop as an “enemy combatant” — only without the military rules of engagement coming into play.

                                            Gun laws don't work either so more gun laws won't work.

                                            Gun laws can work if they’re the right gun laws. Just look at Japan, where gun violence is so rare because of the country’s strict gun ownership laws that such violence tends to make the news outside of Japan. I’m not sure what could work here, but making legal gun ownership contingent on passing an exhaustive safety and responsibility course could be a good start.

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        • identicon
          David, 30 Dec 2020 @ 5:00am

          Re: 'I'll do anything for my country... except wear a mask.'

          Well, would you have wanted to end up like New Zealand which put large cities in lockdowns for months in order to eradicate COVID-19 during winter season?

          Trump cited New Zealand's problems as something that the U.S. would not want to copy.

          And the U.S. certainly shows that it has a different approach.

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        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:03pm

        Re: Re: Reopen the economy

        lol no

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    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:01pm

      Reopen the economy, morgues need more work

      This may surprise you but dead people make really poor spenders, and sending people back to work while there's an ongoing pandemic that's killed hundreds of thousands in the US alone due to short-sighted and/or petty idiots is a great way to ensure a hell of a lot more non-spending corpses.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:05pm

        Re: Reopen the economy, morgues need more work

        Unless they wore masks.

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        • icon
          That One Guy (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:14pm

          Re: Re: Reopen the economy, morgues need more work

          That's a good start anyway, but while masks help they're not perfect and you still need to take other steps which might not be viable(whether physically or because people ignore safety guidelines) in some instances like enclosed spaces.

          A seat-belt may help reduce driving related fatalities but if the person buckled up is speeding and driving recklessly the best seatbelt in the world can only do so much.

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        • icon
          Uriel-238 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:33pm

          Wearing masks to work

          Naw, wearing masks reduces the risk but doesn't drop it to a reasonable level.

          We need our workers to have full on PPE to get the risk of infection to near-zero. And -- one fucking year later -- we don't even have enough PPE to dress up our high-risk workers who are in close contact with known carriers (such as ER and ICU techs).

          The feds didn't just drop the ball, we kicked it to the other side of a busy freeway.

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          • identicon
            David, 30 Dec 2020 @ 5:07am

            Re: Wearing masks to work

            Naw, wearing masks reduces the risk but doesn't drop it to a reasonable level.

            It doesn't need to. If you reduce the risk to where on person infects 0.7 persons in average rather than 1.4, that does not provide a great increase in personal protection given the same situation.

            But when everyone does it, it does not give the same situation. The difference in situation is an exploding pandemic and one running out.

            And the difference between living in a raging pandemic and one that has petered out does make a change in personal risk. Of course you also get that when everyone else but you does it.

            But the "if only everyone else but myself did it" formula is good for a lot of magic that isn't happening.

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        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:58pm

          Re: Re: Reopen the economy, morgues need more work

          Masks are a good thing to add an extra layer of protection above other methods of dealing with the crisis, such as social distancing, staying home unless really necessary, encouraging remote working where possible and compensating those who cannot work. They are not a magic solution on their own.

          The problem with the US isn't just the number of selfish morons who can't wear an extra piece of clothing when they go shopping, it's that you refuse to do any of these basic common sense things.

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        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:00pm

        Re: Reopen the economy, morgues need more work

        So what is your solution pal? You gonna pay everyone's bills while they stay home because YOU are scared of a virus that has a 99.78% survival rate? A virus that has no asymptomatic transmission? Yeah it's all Trumps fault, it's the people not wearing masks fault! You are just as stupid as the mask nazis you worship. If they work why is China having more cases? Guess that is Trump's fault too right?

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        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:58pm

          Go into a California ICU and see how long it takes for you to get COVID, if you’re so confident that it’s so survivable and you can avoid it even in the middle of the maelstrom.

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            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:09pm

            Re:

            I have had it twice and survived. Why don't you go into an ICU and see how empty it is. Don't believe the media hype, get off your fat ass and go look for yourself.

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            • icon
              Mike Masnick (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:26pm

              Re: Re:

              California has almost run out of ICU beds. In LA they're putting patients in the gift shop and turning ambulances away.

              You maybe should get your news from sources that aren't there to pamper your fragile ego with lies.

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                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:35pm

                Re: Re: Re:

                And how do you know this is due to COVID? Remember when they were saying the beds were full before and it was because the people that had electives postponed due to COVID were coming back? Maybe don't get your news from sources that are pushing lies to scare the mindless like you into submission.

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                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:30pm

                  And how do you know this is due to COVID?

                  well it sure as shit ain’t because of food poisoning or broken bones

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                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:50pm

                    Re:

                    You have any concrete proof or are you pulling this out of the same place everyone else gets their "facts"? Hospitals are overflowwing QQ but, lets make a tiktok video. Our nurses are overworked QQ, let's make a music video that goes through several departments.

                    Yeah sure seems like the country is on the brink of death and all the hospital staff are so overworked. Keep believing your puppets.

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                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:01pm

                      Re: Re:

                      Sure must be fun masturbating to imaginary scenarios to fuel your hateboner bro, all because Trump got his feefees hurt on someone else's platform. You guys sure turned thinskinned as hell when ya boi done fucked up putting Hilary in jail and building that Mexican wall, so all you can do is troll on sites nobody reads.

                      I'd say stop, but your tears are delicious.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:21pm

                        Re: Re: Re:

                        You don't have time to drink trump supporter tears when you are getting facials from Biden supporters. But, keep on telling everyone where the bad trump man touched you.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 9:00am

                        Re: Re: Re:

                        That's the other talking point: dismiss any and all libel as someone getting their feelings hurt, and use slang to emphasize this. Also call the libel "saying mean things" like if I were to say Mike Masnick raped a fourteen year-old girl on a rooftop when he was in grad school (he didn't and I'm not saying he did but if someone DID say it it wouldn't be "mean things").

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 18 May 2021 @ 8:20am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          he didn't and I'm not saying he did but if someone DID say it it wouldn't be "mean things"

                          You really went fucking downhill when ya boi lost the election, John Smith. I didn't think I'd have to add COVID-19 denialism to the long list of reasons why copyright fans like you are bottom-feeding scum, but here we are.

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            • identicon
              Rocky, 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:16pm

              Re: Re:

              I have had it twice and survived.

              Ah, so you are like Typhoid Mary then.. Explains a lot.

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                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:51pm

                Re: Re: Re:

                Yup trying to weed out the week. Seems to be working pretty good doesn't it?!

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                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:17pm

                  “Because a society is measured by how it treats the weak and vulnerable, we must strive to build a culture of life.” – George W. Bush, from his 2005 State of the Union address

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                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:31pm

                    Re:

                    Thought you hated republicans? Why you quoting one?

                    Maybe you should apply that quote to all the other people here and yourself. Your kind haven't been support the weak and vulnerable as of late. So don't go pretending your hands are clean.

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                    • icon
                      PaulT (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:59pm

                      Re: Re:

                      "Thought you hated republicans? Why you quoting one?"

                      Because intelligent people with access to facts don't reject them just because the person using them is not on their "team".

                      "Your kind haven't been support the weak and vulnerable as of late."

                      I'd love to see a citation for that.

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:08am

                      I don’t “hate” Republicans; I dislike them. If anything, I hate their platform, ideology, and current ostensible leader. The individual people I can take or leave as I see fit, but not being a fan of assholes like McConnell or spineless fuckwits like Rubio doesn’t mean I hate them.

                      As for why I quoted Dubya: It’s to point out the hypocrisy of someone ostensibly on the side of the “pro-life” party — the same party to which Dubya belonged when he invoked the Terry Schiavo case exactly one sentence after that quote — implying that COVID should weed out the weak and most vulnerable Americans no matter what.

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:58am

                        Re:

                        @PaulT: well you must not be intelligent. Hitler and Kim Jong Il had some good quotes too gonna use them? You want proof of the Dems screwing the Americans over just look to the news and not CNN or Fox. What party is running Oregon? What party is running California? What party is running New York state and city? The same states that also happen to have the largest cases per capita. Oh that's trump fault so it doesn't count.

                        @Forgetful Stephen T: Earlier you said you hated republicans and trump. Now you say you don't. I was right about you flipflopping. Just didn't think I would be proven right so fast. And now you are using quotes out of context to support your argument? Man that is weak.

                        So let me ask you and all the Biden supporters a question. If Covid continues to have cases and deaths, like it does now, or gets even worse during Biden's reign are you gonna be as harsh and evil towards Biden? Remember, Trump is out of office at this point and Biden said he was gonna crack down and save us with his magical plan.

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                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:24am

                          The same states that also happen to have the largest cases per capita.

                          It’s almost as if the states run by Democrats are also some of the most populous states in the country and would inevitably have more cases per capita than the less populous “red” states.

                          Earlier you said you hated republicans and trump. Now you say you don't.

                          No, I said I was anti-Republican and I hate Donald Trump. I can be anti-Republican without hating individual Republicans themselves (though it’s not like they make it hard…).

                          now you are using quotes out of context to support your argument?

                          George W. Bush, a Republican, said he supported building “a culture of life”. Republicans say they are the “pro-life” party. Ergo, by quoting Dubya, I’m pointing out the hypocrisy between the supposed “pro-life” platform of conservatives/Trump supporters and the conservatives/Trump supporters who think we should let COVID-19 purge the weak from the country.

                          If Covid continues to have cases and deaths, like it does now, or gets even worse during Biden's reign are you gonna be as harsh and evil towards Biden?

                          That depends on if Biden displays the same amount of reluctance to act, incompetence while acting, and lack of remorse for any failures caused by both action and inaction that the Trump administration has displayed. COVID-19 is going to keep fucking this country up for at least another six months, if not longer. Biden shouldn’t eat the blame for the failures of his predecessors — like, say, the decision to toss out a pandemic playbook created by the Obama administration because “fuck Obama” — but if he and his administration make things far worse by being even more incompetent than Trump, he absolutely should eat the blame.

                          Neither Trump nor Biden should receive credit for the creation of the vaccines. Trump should receive credit for the meager attempt at planning distribution of the vaccines and the guarantee that the vaccine will be free to all Americans, but that’s it. Biden should receive credit for improving those plans by way of listening to scientists instead of the MyPillow guy, and (for now) that’s it.

                          Donald Trump was president when COVID-19 began ravaging the country, and he did nothing but say “it’s going to go away”. He’s going to eat the blame for the pandemic, as well he should. Biden should be blamed for making it worse in the event his administration actively tries to make it worse. But a rise in deaths over the next few months isn’t his fault. He didn’t toss out plans to deal with a pandemic, did the equivalent of trying to pray away the disease, kept ignoring the rise in case numbers and deaths until it couldn’t realistically be ignored any more, refused to coördinate a national response to a national public health crisis, push insane snake oil “cures” like injecting bleach, and ultimately prove a callous indifference to the loss of human life caused by COVID-19 even after contracting the virus.

                          Donald Trump did that shit. And that’s why Donald Trump gets to take the blame for COVID running rampant in the U.S. Don’t like it? Go back to Parler and stick to your “Biden was running a shadow government that stymied the Trump administration this whole time” conspiracy theory echo chamber circlejerk. I promise that you’ll be happier there.

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                          PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:43am

                          Re: Re:

                          "What party is running New York state and city? The same states that also happen to have the largest cases per capita."

                          Your argument really tends to fall apart when you note that the number of cases have been higher in one of the most travelled cities in the world, where millions of people live in close proximity on an island, where the first outbreaks in the country are, and pretend that the higher number of cases are due to the tribe the governor belongs to.

                          One of the worst thing Trump has done is to successfully turn basic medical data into politics.

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                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:05am

                            Re: Re: Re:

                            So what about the rest of the states? Does having a larger population base make them immune from scrutiny? Trump didn't have to turn medical stats into political talking points, the talking heads did that for him.

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                              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:48am

                              So what about the rest of the states? Does having a larger population base make them immune from scrutiny?

                              No. But states that don’t see the same level of travel/tourism as others and have sparser/more spread-out populations that others aren’t generally going to have larger spikes than those more visited/more densely populated states. Again: You’re trying to act like a state with a large population and a high population density is going to be the exact same as a state with a smaller population and a lower population density. It won’t be. New York isn’t North Carolina, which isn’t Florida, which isn’t Nebraska, which isn’t California…and so on and so forth.

                              Learn you some science and statistics, son.

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                                Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:14am

                                Re:

                                "Learn you some science and statistics, son."

                                Same to you. Let's compare to roughly equal states. ND and SD. Both have roughly the same population but SD has more tourism than ND. SD had no real measure but ND did. Result are roughly the same except SD has a better economy. What's your reason for that? If the mandates and strict measures worked SD should be have higher counts and ND should have lower counts. Well?

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                              PaulT (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:59am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              "Does having a larger population base make them immune from scrutiny?"

                              No, it just means that the virus is obviously going to spread further in states where people live close together than it will in states where there's fewer people and more land, especially since NYC was one of the first places where the virus travelled from Asia and Europe to begin with.

                              This is extremely basic, very obvious stuff if you look at something outside what colour an arbitrary election map tells you about a state.

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              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:31pm

              I have had it twice and survived.

              You’re either lying or a sociopath who doesn’t care if other people suffer and die from the same disease you allegedly survived. Neither one is a good look for you, fam.

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              • icon
                Toom1275 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 7:54pm

                Re:

                Since nothing else that idiot's written so far has had even a grain of truth behind it, I'd say the former is more likely.

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                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:45pm

                  Re: Re:

                  Actually the world would be a better place if you all died. So please continue wearing your magic masks and take the unproven death sentence shot. World needs less sheep anyways.

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                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:04pm

                    Re: Re: Re:

                    The death sentence shot was okayed by the Trump administration to prove how well he was handling the pandemic, chuckles. But thanks for confirming your boy ordered a death sentence shot.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:24pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      No see Biden is taking the credit for this and Pfizer is trying to say they didn't take any help from Trump. Also your hero Biden want's to give the shot to at least 1 million people a day. So maybe evil trump made the shot but biden wants everyone to die from it. giggles

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                  • icon
                    Toom1275 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 10:08pm

                    Re: Re: Re:

                    [Projects facts not in evidence]

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    • icon
      Uriel-238 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:10pm

      Budget Concerns

      Yeah, we should also tax the rich. hard. While we're at it reduce the armed forces to 1/10th of their current size and kill the invisible tank and laser plane projects. End US imperialism / military adventurism / interventionism.

      Also we should gut the corporate subsidies. All of them. Farmers too.

      Oh wait, no, the people who campaigned on fiscal responsibility keep giving raises to their lobbyist chums.

      When the government fails to serve the people and instead serves corporate and private interests, that's called government failure and it's cause to burn down civic buildings.

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        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:02pm

        Re: Budget Concerns

        Yeah cause burning buildings down solves everything. How is that working for Antifa and BLM? Oh it isn't? It's actually worse now? Well duh! If your only solution for your problems is to burn down other peoples things maybe you should set yourself on fire.

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        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:59pm

          Yeah cause burning buildings down solves everything.

          The guys who planned to kidnap Michigan’s governor and destroy the state capitol building seemed to think it would.

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 6:43am

            Re:

            "The guys who planned to kidnap Michigan’s governor and destroy the state capitol building seemed to think it would"

            typical gop probably: I have a medical condition that only allows me to see one side of things

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            • icon
              Toom1275 (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 9:34am

              Re: Re:

              The steady diet of hallucinogens (the gases emitted by sean hannity & rush limbaugh, to name a few) required to maintain Republican support has its share of side-effects.

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        • icon
          Uriel-238 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:28pm

          Burning down the buildings.

          Antifa only pulls out the meteor hammers when hate groups come out, (lately, the Proud Boys) and their body count is significantly lower than these hate groups. But yeah, according to the White House, Antifa is ubiquitous like communist spies in the cold war. Assassins behind every tree, and armed like three James Bond villains (Or one and a half Baywatch Lifeguard Services).

          As for BLM, they are referring their members and followers to this training manual (pdf) and are showing a remarkably low rate of violent response, despite the White House and Fox News calling them a riot and using footage of historical riots in Spain during their news coverage of BLM. Also despite the police shooting their faces with riot bullets and kettling them with tear-gas. BLM just has to record the police brutality and make sure the footage makes its way to the YouTubes.

          Perhaps you're thinking of the burned down precincts in Minneapolis. The FBI is investigating false flag operations by Boogaloo Bois. Usually I dismiss false flag ops but apparently the feds feel there's enough evidence to indict, and so they have.

          Personally, I know I'm an angry fool. There's a lot of evidence the GOP plays their own constituents like Barnum & Bailey suckers, and they seem glad to vote against their own self-interests, even if it means they starve, go homeless, watch the world burn or even get packed onto the cattle trains wondering why no one is left to speak for them.

          But before democracy, grievances and political matters were handled violently. And every historical step towards egalitarianism has been made with the explicit concern that if the matter isn't settled peacefully and soon, some people are going to start sticking pointy things into other people.

          Burning down civics buildings is the last step before the pointy sticks. As it is, coalitions are forming and some of them are arming up. Our outgoing president is looking to provoke enough violence to start a civil war, possibly with the hope that he then gets to stay in the White House. It's a long shot, but so have been his last fifty-plus attempts to overturn the election results.

          What is conspicuous is congress and even the new boss ignoring how tense things are. Civil unrest is going to become Biden's problem if he doesn't soon show more interest in stopping the suffering and precarity. And that includes acknowledging law enforcement nationwide do like to shoot blacks, crazies and poor people.

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            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:19pm

            Re: Burning down the buildings.

            Bullshit. Antifa and BLM have been destroying cities far longer than you are saying. And why is destroying cities ok? THey are doing it for some false sense of justice. Everything is racist let's destroy yet they are the only ones being destructive and racist. You aren't just an angry fool you are a dumbass too. Can I burn down your house because I don't like what you say? Why not? You have insurance right? You just said it's ok. And I have yet to see hate groups show up to those riots other than BLM and antifa. Can't wait for them to destroy themselves. Gonna be a nice day. I also hope blacks acknowledge that they shoot themselves at higher rates than police. That them being only 13% of the mix commit more than 50% of the crime. Oh that's racist right?

            No civil war will happen as everyone calling for it is lazy and armchair commandos. Proud boys aren't a hate group just dumbass drunks that are all talk. Only hate groups I see on burning cities down, killing people, destroying our history are BLM and Antifa. And from skimming what you wrote you like using big words but, have no understanding of what you are talking about. Just regurgitating what you hear on the tv and from your echochamber groups and friends. Biden won't do shit to help either. These terrorist groups know they have an audience and support from suckers like you so it will continue. Even when all the police are taken away, the country is blackwashed, and they get everything they want (a socialist utopia) they will still continue to burn loot and murder.

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            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 6:34pm

              You seem like the kind of person who thinks pro-Black movements are anti-White because pro-White movements are always anti-Black.

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                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 9:48pm

                Re:

                How's that bbc taste? Your knees sore yet? Pro-black is anti-white by nature dumbshit. Anti-white is anti-black otherwise the KKK wouldn't be a hate group. Oh that's right only whites can be racist I forgot tehe silly me. Do you even know the motives behind BLM? It sure as hell isn't to help black folks. God you people have even less brains you claim Trump does.

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                • icon
                  R.H. (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 12:29am

                  Re: Re:

                  It looks like Mr. Stone was correct in his assessment. Pro-Black doesn't have to mean anti-White. For example, a pro-black statement is, "I believe that Blacks should have the same rights as Whites, Latinx, and any other race in this country." However, that statement is categorically not anti-White since any loss of rights for Whites would mean a loss of rights for everyone. I posted more of this quote in another comment on this thread but here's a part that I think you need to see.

                  And they are lucky that what black people are looking for is equality and not revenge.

                  - Kimberly Jones, June 2020

                  You seem to believe that any Black person speaking out about the current injustices is looking for revenge. In my experience, those who feel that way do so because, if they'd been oppressed and were suddenly free from that oppression, they would be looking for vengeance rather than equality. That being the case, they fear ever lifting the oppression lest the oppressed get a chance for revenge.

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                    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:15am

                    Re: Re: Re:

                    Let's use your quotes for supporting pro-black and replace the word black all with white. Yeah it's racist now. I wonder why? In regards to your Kimberly quote, you wouldn't live long enough to get your "revenge". You would either kill yourselves off or burn everything down and have an empire of ashes. We are seeing examples of this right now. A peaceful protest turns into destruction and mayhem by nightfall. "We don't own anything so it's ok to burn it all down." Proof that these movements are stuck in the past. Nothing the whites can do will appease. We could go extinct overnight and the movement would just move on to the next victim class.

                    I keep seeing that blacks are speaking out against injustices yet I haven't seen anything remotely like that. What have any of these "pro-black" movements done to actually help black people? I am still waiting for an answer to that. The only thing these movements have done is further regress any change that has been achieved. They breed more racism and hate towards blacks. Why should anyone support a movement that burns entire cities down? That kills their own just because they aren't with them? Maybe instead of living in the past you should look forward. Have you, personally and you specifically, been a victim of slavery? How about oppression? No. Today's world whites are be oppressed because of being white. Heard of affirmative action? I, being white, can sit down next to a black person for an interview for the same position. We can have the exact same qualifications but, the black person will be taken over me. Why? Because if they take 'ol whitey they will be called racist and attacked. Blame the whites for that all you want but, it isn't whitey's fault. Most businesses would hire a black underqualified person over a white just to stay in business and to appear 'woke'. Black national anthem ring a bell? You aren't calling for unity only pushing for more division and to have blacks put on a pedestal over everyone else. If this pisses you off you are proving my point. ALL LIVES MATTER EQUALLY.

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                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 1:36am

                      I wonder why?

                      It has to do with the fact that Black people have been marginalized in this country ever since they were brought here in chains 400 years ago. White people have always held most of the social, political, and economic power in the United States. When Black people proclaim “Black power” or “Black lives matter”, it’s a statement of survival in a society built on the idea that they’re subhuman. When White people proclaim “White power” or “White lives matter”, it’s a statement of dominance in a society built on the idea that they’re the superior race.

                      (That principle also drives the queer pride movement.)

                      What have any of these "pro-black" movements done to actually help black people?

                      Besides, say, getting Black people the same access to constitutionally guaranteed civil rights as White people? Because I can think of one incredibly famous pro-Black movement what did exactly that.

                      ALL LIVES MATTER

                      But Black lives matter, too. What makes you so afraid to say so?

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                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:11am

                        Re:

                        "brought here in chains 400 years ago"

                        Who brought them here? Who sold them? Seem to recall it was black slave traders. Why aren't they protesting that? Something that still occurs? Nah let's blame whitey for all the problems.

                        "White power"

                        So that is racist but black power isn't? Wow. Guess you are one of the people that believe there is no such thing as black racists.

                        "But Black lives matter, too"

                        Umm you are the one that isn't including them in the statement of ALL LIVES not me. Why does it have to be separate? I don't hear anyone chanting "Latino Lives Matter" or any other race just the blacks. Blacks seem to think they are the ONLY race that has been oppressed. That slavery didn't start till it happened here. You can't pick and choose what parts of history you keep. You have to include it all. So what makes you think that when anyone says all lives matter that it doesn't include blacks? Does 'all' mean everyone? Seems that you are the racist in this situation.

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                        • icon
                          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 2:42am

                          Who brought them here?

                          Colonizers.

                          Who sold them?

                          Bold of you to assume all slaves were sold, regardless of whom they were sold by.

                          let's blame whitey for all the problems

                          White people today aren’t responsible for making most of this country’s institutions racist as fuck toward Black people…but by and large, they’re not trying hard enough to make them anti-racist. And the burden of “solving” racism isn’t, and should never be, on the people targeted and directly affected by that racism. Black people don’t need to (and shouldn’t have to) solve the anti-Black racism of White people; that job falls squarely on the shoulders of White people.

                          So that is racist but black power isn't?

                          Yep. It’s about the historical context behind those two phrases. “White power” has always been about White supremacy; “Black power” has always been about Black independence and survival. As for “all lives matter”…

                          you are the one that isn't including them in the statement of ALL LIVES not me. Why does it have to be separate?

                          …nobody started saying that phrase until after Black people started saying “Black lives matter”. “All lives matter” is an attempt to shift the focus away from anti-Black racism and anti-Black violence towards…well, some nebulous “can’t we all just get along” bullshit, I’m sure. “Black lives matter” is a reminder that in the United States, Black lives haven’t mattered to a lot of people — including people in power — for a hell of a long time. Black people can be killed by cops without even having broken any law, but a White mass murderer who shot up a Black church can be apprehended without any violence. Republicans love to talk a big game about free and fair elections, but their gerrymandering, voter roll purges, and voter ID laws target Black people with what one North Carolina court called “surgical precision”. Redlining, segregation, laws against mixed-race marriages, the bombing of Black Wall Street…I mean, we can go on and on about this if you want, but you won’t find anything in the history of the United States that shows it to be even remotely anti-White at any point. But Black people have always been second-class citizens in the United States, and not even the passgae of the Civil Rights Movement has changed that.

                          Blacks seem to think they are the ONLY race that has been oppressed.

                          They’re not, but they have been one of the two most oppressed segments of the American population since the founding of this country. (The other is Native Americans.) Latinos and Asians have never faced even remotely the same kind of oppression in the U.S., though they have faced it — e.g., the Japanese-American internment camps of World War II, the current anti-immigrant sentiment that has led to Latino-Americans being racially profiled.

                          That’s why “Black lives matter” is a thing.

                          So what makes you think that when anyone says all lives matter that it doesn't include blacks?

                          Oh, I’m sure anyone who says “all lives matter” will say “that means Black lives, too!”. But for some reason, they refuse to say those specific three words (“Black lives matter”) even though it isn’t about racial supremacy or racial revenge. And as I said before, nobody started saying “all lives matter” until Black people started saying “Black lives matter”, which should tell you more than enough about the motives behind people saying “all lives matter”

                          I can say “Black lives matter” and I’m White as fuck. (Southern, too.) Why the fuck can’t you say it without denigrating it?

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                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 3:30am

                            Re:

                            "Bold of you to assume all slaves were sold, regardless of whom they were sold by."

                            Didn't answer my question.

                            "White people today aren’t responsible for making most of this country’s institutions racist as fuck toward Black people"

                            With all the rhetoric that is floating around coulda fooled me! Btw blacks are racist towards their own race. Can't ignore that fact. They also oppress their own race more, kill their own race more, yet claim whitey is the most racist. Sorry, try again Harold.

                            "Black people can be killed by cops without even having broken any law, but a White mass murderer who shot up a Black church can be apprehended without any violence"

                            Yet another bs talking point from people like you. Whites are shot by cops more than blacks. And that church shooting is a shitty example. Wanna know why he was arrested without any violence? He surrendered and didn't fight back. The opposite of what majority of the blacks do. Don't act stupid you won't get shot.

                            "and not even the passgae of the Civil Rights Movement has changed that"

                            Bullshit 100% bullshit.

                            "But for some reason, they refuse to say those specific three words"

                            I seem to recall the BLM movement stating "All lives can't matter till black lives do." They separated themselves from everyone else on their own. I won't say it because it is racist., sorry you can't see that. All lives matter. No other race is better than any other race. If YOU want to put blacks on a pedestal because of shit that happen centuries ago, that's on you. Oh when was the last time there was riots across the country for a white guy that was unjustly murdered? How about the outcries for the black cop in NYC shot and killed by the BLM movement for protecting his store? What about all the other black lives destroyed by this bullshit BLM movement? Guess their lives didn't matter? BLM is meaningless and inherently racist. I will never say it. Even if you hold a gun to my head I still will say all lives matter.

                            "say it without denigrating it?"

                            Because you and everyone that supports the movement already did. Why can't you believe that all lives matter? Maybe the people saying all lives matter are saying it to bring unity. What is so hard to believe about that? Again, when you separate a race or group into their own category you automatically make it racist. I'm sorry you are ashamed of your own race. I'm not talking to someone that is morally screwed up as you as it's useless. Enjoy your bubble snowflake. Hopefully you aren't too high when it finally bursts.

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                            • icon
                              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:04am

                              kill their own race more

                              I know this might shock you, but so do White people. Most crime (violent or not) is intraracial because most crimes are crimes of opportunity. The “Black-on-Black crime” myth persists because people like you either didn’t know that fact or don’t care about that fact because it destroys your “Black people need to solve all their shit first, then they can concentrate on fixing White racism” belief.

                              Whites are shot by cops more than blacks. And that church shooting is a shitty example. Wanna know why he was arrested without any violence? He surrendered and didn't fight back.

                              Plenty of Black people who didn’t get violent with police were also killed by police. Tamir Rice wasn’t even given a chance to surrender before he was shot dead. Ditto for John Crawford III.

                              I seem to recall the BLM movement stating "All lives can't matter till black lives do."

                              And you miss the point of that saying: Until the U.S. proves that Black lives matter as much as other lives — until Black people are treated equitably by the government and society in general — all lives (which include Black lives) can’t matter. You can’t say “all lives matter” and go “except for these lives”; shit don’t work that way, fam.

                              No other race is better than any other race.

                              “Black lives matter” is about proclaiming the inherent superiority of Black people in the same way that “gay pride” is about proclaiming the inherent superiority of gay people. Which is to say: They’re not about that at all, except to people who are so uncomfortable with the idea of a pro-Black/pro-gay movement because they think those movements are anti-White/anti-straight since the inverse (pro-White/pro-straight movements are anti-Black/anti-gay) holds true far more often than not.

                              when was the last time there was riots across the country for a white guy that was unjustly murdered?

                              Show me a murder where the murder itself had racial overtones, the perp went entirely unpunished, and a refusal to prosecute/convict was the latest in a long line of racially biased injustices visited upon a historically marginalized group of people.

                              Then show me one that fits all those criteria and the victim was White.

                              Why can't you believe that all lives matter?

                              All lives matter.

                              But Black lives matter, too.

                              Maybe the people saying all lives matter are saying it to bring unity. What is so hard to believe about that?

                              Because “all lives matter” didn’t become a thing until people started saying “Black lives matter”. Because people started saying “all lives matter” specifically in response to “Black lives matter”. And because the vast majority of people pushing “all lives matter” as an “alternative” or “unifying” phrase were/are White.

                              when you separate a race or group into their own category you automatically make it racist

                              If you think you “don’t see color”, you sure as shit don’t see the experiences of people of color — including the racism inflicted upon them by White people.

                              I'm sorry you are ashamed of your own race.

                              White pride is about celebrating the fact that someone basically hit a genetic lottery. Black pride, on the other hand, is about celebrating the fact that a historically marginalized group is not only managing to survive in a society geared towards its continued marginalization, but is also thriving — or at least managing to do better than the last generation. I’m not ashamed to be a White guy, but I’m not going to feel proud of being born White in the United States.

                              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                              • icon
                                That One Guy (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 9:07am

                                'Won't anyone think of the white men?!'

                                Every time I see someone break out 'All lives matter' in response to 'Black lives matter' I can't help but picture a white guy during the civil right's movement and/or the women's rights movements getting all upset that people in those movements aren't spending time and effort talking about how bad white men like them can have it, and how exclusionary those two groups are for not spending more time talking about white men and only focusing on blacks/women.

                                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:36pm

                Re:

                You seem like the kind of person that flip flops their morals just to fit in.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Uriel-238 (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:02pm

              Bullshit. Blahblahblahblahblah....

              Oh dear, I tried so hard to give this screed a fair read, but after a couple of sentences in was clear you weren't planning on supporting this alleged war on cities by Antifa and BLM.

              You could be delusional.

              You could be lying in malice.

              You could have an emotional investment to a given worldview and a hostile response to anything that suggests otherwise. This has been a rising problem in the US since the aughts and Karl Rove's campaign of fringe conspiracy notions.

              But, Anonymous Coward it means having a conversation with you is probably not going to do either of us any good. It wastes my time and annoys the pig.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 11:34pm

                Re: Bullshit. Blahblahblahblahblah....

                Bless your heart.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ECA (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:20pm

    read his wiki.

    I find it very strange, how some of this has come about.
    Can we discuss, If trump is correct about a Way to cheat the election. Something that if used to often, could be discovered, or that the COST is to high to use, often.

    With all the past knowledge we have and the current thoughts on how this system works.
    We have seen in the past there were state elections with Mechanical machines and they could be faked. but you still needed someone to build it.
    Even now we have groups that Try to/and Do prove how easy it is to hack SOME of these Computer based systems, Which is kinda strange with all the Ways we can keep it safe.
    Which still has the same problem, Who to pay to do it. Unless you wish to erase them.
    This would be a Very dangerous thing to do for a programmer. And I would HOPE they get the idea, quickly.
    Trump only has 1 problem with this, in proving it exists. And if he does?

    On to Mitch.
    Considering his state, why is he still in office?
    Last election about 45% of the people voted. 2 million of a 4.4 million population, and if you just consider those of Voting age, its Still a very close call. As biden won 2 counties?? and got almost 1/2 the vote. Even the Senate vote McGrath got 3 counties, and got 2/5 the vote.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/election-results/kentucky-2020/

    Anyone get the idea that they DONT want Mitch to come home so they sent him to Congress?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Bruce C., 29 Dec 2020 @ 12:55pm

    Republican dilemma...

    You know your party is in trouble when the two most powerful members of the party, a and b :
    a) puts his own interests over the interests of the party
    b) puts his party's interests over the interests of the people.

    Even though I'm a boomer myself, I really can't wait for this septuagenarian generation of boomer politicians to retire, on both sides of the aisle.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    joe, 29 Dec 2020 @ 2:59pm

    McConnell got PPA RELIEF !!!

    Read it here!

    https://readsludge.com/2020/12/24/members-of-congress-profited-from-covid-bailout-while-small- businesses-were-shut-out/

    Mitch McConnell and wife Elaine Chao, with a combined net worth of $34.4 million, are tied to a loan for the Chao-family owned Foremost Maritime Inc. of $417,700

    They should all be sent to Guantanamo!!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 3:23pm

    You can always rely on McConnell to look out for and protect McConnell and bugger everything else.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:21pm

    Poor Mike....awww.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 4:24pm

    Section 230 ruins lives. Remember when Rose McGowan was threatened with defamation? How did lawyers have the ability to plant articles about her? Lawyers do this all the time and it wouldn't be possible without 230.

    Revenge porn never would have been possible without 230 since the sites could hvae been sued.

    Choosing to leave defamation on a website is a separate legal harm (distribution of libel) than what the users did (publication). Suing a website for distributing libel after being put on notice of same is not suing them for what their users did, but for what THEY did.

    Every country other than the US does NOT have 230 and still has a functioning internet. It's no different than the DMCA's notice-and-takedown. The few "abuses" of the DMCA can easily be rectified; mass piracy cannot. There's a single bitcoin address that takes payment for 1000+ books compiled for each niche that are sold illegally, profiting the criminals at the expense of authors.

    McConnell may actually get what he wants. God bless he and Trump if they can get rid of this abominal law.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Zonker, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:24pm

      Re:

      Revenge porn never would have been possible without 230 since the sites could hvae been sued.

      Wrong. Without Section 230 revenge porn would be on practically every site that allows users to post content since the site operator would be held liable if they attempted to moderate their own sites by removing said revenge porn posted by users.

      See Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co. where it was held that because Prodigy moderated their service to remove objectionable content they were thus liable for any such content posted on their site.

      Section 230 makes it possible for site operators to remove objectionable content without becoming liable for said content.

      Other countries don't have Section 230 because they don't need to; their courts didn't establish the need with the Prodigy ruling, the US New York Supreme Court did.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Zonker, 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:34pm

        Re: Re:

        To clarify, CompuServe faced a similar court case to Prodigy, but was found not liable because they did not moderate their forum.

        The US New York Supreme Court stated:

        "Prodigy's conscious choice, to gain the benefits of editorial control, has opened it up to a greater liability than CompuServe and other computer networks that make no such choice."

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        D Browder, 29 Dec 2020 @ 8:57pm

        Re: Re:

        What's more is that they have an additional risk of being sued. Not for REMOVING the offensive material, but for ALLOWING the material, even though the repealing of section 230 wouldn't permit them to do so.

        By repealing Section 230, we would be creating a tinderbox of no-win legal scenarios for EVERY company that allows users to post original content - from Facebook, to Twitter, to Reddit, to Instagram, to Pintrest, and basically EVERY other social media or blogging platform that exists.

        Section 230 needs to remain, which is exactly why Mitch is "linking" the stimulus increase to it - to ensure it never gets passed.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 8:57am

        Re: Re:

        Cool misspelling of my name!! You're SO hip!! That free corner office in your brain has a nice view of your envy.

        No expose? You sure? Besides, the pandemic closed the courts for months. Some already know what's coming but can't speak up as that would cause liability for them. You don't hear from the people who get knocks on their door from the cops (the criminal equivalent), just the loudmouths who think they'll never get caught.

        Do you really think you're anonymous?

        Without 230 any site that hosts revenge porn gets sued, and any search engine that points to it also gets sued.

        Distributor liability was the law until 230 passed, and it's still the law in every other western country. It's notice-and-takedown. It won't kill the internet, though it might make it more expensive as it is to run a newspaper or television station. That's like saying car safety laws would kill the automobile industry rather than just making it more expensive to produce cars.

        Individual reputations are not an acceptable loss to anyone with a true sense of fair play. The only people who want 230 are those lawyers who pay people to defame their adversaries like that lawyer who threatened Rose McGowan did. Just HOW would the lawyer go about getting those articles planted? There must be a system in place. Anyone not paid to pretend not to understand this sees this very clearly.

        Have fun obsessing over me!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:54pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Nice job replying to the wrong message, bro, but good to know you're still a whipped little puppy that jumps for the bait every single time. Nobody misspells your trash pseudonym aside from yourself after you chose to do it several times.

          It's a riot every time you bitch about obsessing and individual reputation. You'll mock the writers of this site and denigrate their families but twist your own panties into a Gordian knot because folks with functioning brain cells put two and two together to figure out you were the number one shill for John "Big Brain" Steele and his attempt at copyright enforcement. Nobody ruined your individual reputation, Whatever. You chose to respond. You chose to show up, multiple times, under equally pathetic pseudonyms to scream about fictional Russian scenarios in your head. You chose to support a President who thoroughly fucked up handling the pandemic just for the off chance he might make it easier for you to sue disabled veterans for your amateur porn production.

          Your boy Shiva couldn't do shit, what do you think some no-name Internet asshole is going to accomplish? But thanks for the laugh and reminder that Masnick puts so much office space in your head that we've all got a separate room to take a dump in. Honest question, do you use protection when populating your mailing list or do papercuts on your cock turn you on?

          Happy fucking New Year, you old, impotent fuckwit. We'll see you on the New Year's message where we can recall how you embarrass yourself every December 31st.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          bhull242 (profile), 1 Jan 2021 @ 10:52pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          The big court cases that dealt with revenge porn found revenge porn laws to be unconstitutional. The issue wasn’t §230 but the 1A. So no, §230 is not responsible for revenge porn being a thing.

          Also, distributor liability for defamation was never the law in the US outside of two cases that led to §230. That it exists in other western countries is immaterial. Bookstores aren’t liable for stocking defamatory books, you know.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2020 @ 7:28pm

      Re:

      Oh hi Jhon, totally didn't expect you to simp up to Trump, not at all. Funny you should use Rose McGowan as an example after all the nice things you said about her as a woman who slept her way up Hollywood, not to mention your fine opinions on MeToo.

      It's almost like you think nobody remembers the shit you spew, but it's very telling that you'd suck the cock of the President who fucked up managing the pandemic just to push your trash "distributor liability" agenda after your boy Paul Hansmeier got his ass kicked. Did you know he restarted his copyright trolling in prison? He actually thinks informing the judge beforehand magically makes it not illegal. How many shafts did you have to get on your knees and fluff to let him pull that off?

      Two years and no press release, no scandalous expose, and all you have is shaking your fist to make fun of Masnick's offspring. Go marry your own mailing list, you old, impotent fuckwit.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ECA (profile), 29 Dec 2020 @ 5:28pm

    There are a few things.

    that can be done.
    GET there books, for the congress and reps,and read them and FIX THEM.
    either back to original, or somehthing abit better.

    But if you REALLY want to mess them up.
    Add 1 more thing to the Gov.
    THAT the people are the last ones to VOTE Yea/NAY on every bill.
    That alone would scare them all to hell.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:16am

    Funny how people who claim to not support or vote for anyone suddenly have such a vested interest in defending the Trump administration they'll lay themselves over a pit of spikes just to say how much they didn't vote for Trump, but will lick their way through a field of landmines to insult someone who hurt Orange Man's feefees on a website whose critics claim has no readership. You'd think that people who have no preference in political leaders wouldn't be spending this much effort to defend one.

    It's almost like they're far more emotionally invested in polishing Trump's image than they'll admit, because the only other explanation for why someone would lay claim to such a bizarre level of altruism for a celebrity would be that they're so fucked in the head they gave their brain octuplets.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:28am

    Wow, I am impressed with the pretzel logic employed here in a weak attempt to shore up the Trump campaign's flailing last breath.
    The mental gymnastics is enthusiastic and relentless in their pursuit of total insanity.

    In related news, some genius is now saying the Nashville thing was a missile strike from China - LOL.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 9:03am

    What if someone who was judgment-proof and terminally ill just went on a libel spree and targeted someone like Mike Masnick? Then what if they used burner phones, burner IPs, and anonymous remailers/TOR servers to do it? They couldn't be sued, and everyone who republished it would be immune under Section 230. They could do this to ANYONE. (DISCLAIMER: I am not endorsing this horrible conduct any more than the reporter who asked Mike Dukakis in 1988 how he'd react to Kitty being raped and murdered was threatening her).

    He knows damn well his reputation would be ruined and he'd have no recourse. Would he still support Section 230 in that scenario? That's why the law has to go. Individual reputations matter, including Mike Masnick's, the guy who did NOT rape a fourteen year-old girl on a rooftop when he was in college.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      bhull242 (profile), 31 Dec 2020 @ 1:15am

      Re:

      Would he still support Section 230 in that scenario?

      Yes, yes he would.

      Look, I get that when someone feels wronged, they believe that someone should rectify that. However, attacking the messenger is not the way to go. Sometimes, the bad guy gets away. That doesn’t make it okay for you to punch out the guy who told you about it.

      §230 just ensures that only the people actually responsible for writing the material get punished for it. It’s the same rule we apply outside of cyberspace.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2020 @ 1:46am

      Re:

      So here's a question - why haven't you? You've regularly gloated that you have a network of clout in Hollywood and the law. You and blue mess around with TOR to mask your IP addresses and hide your identities behind terrible nicknames. You hate Masnick so much that years after Otis Wright nailed Paul Hansmeier to the wall you're still here gnashing your teeth. You spend your time masturbating to gleeful fantasies about whatever you think Mike's family gets coming to them. You think Masnick is a no-name nobody who hasn't achieved anything meaningful with his life (the May 16th 2019 announcement about the Shiva Ayyadurai lawsuit ending is a nice collection of your rants by the way).

      By your own metrics you could nuke Masnick's life into a kajillion pieces. By your own detailed plans you'd get away with it scot free and you wouldn't even need a scandal-breaking press release to do it. Hell, digging into your shitposting over the years has you claiming that Masnick isn't even a big player in... whatever financial fraud you think is occurring.

      So the question remains, why haven't you blown this guy's reputation the fuck up, despite claiming that the law as it stands would allow it to happen exactly as you outline?

      Because - the simple answer is - you're a liar. The slightly less simple answer is you're a fucking liar who thinks pirates downloading mailing lists cause the magical economic crises in your head, and you're dumb enough to think Americans consult Russian boys over which doctor to visit. You blessing Trump for absolutely botching the pandemic situation is icing. You'd rather the world burn because you sold one fewer copy of your outdated stock market books than you'd like.

      The pandemic isn't an excuse for the media. You could have easily gone with a Zoom webinar for your spicy story. You claim individual reputations matter and continue to fume at the fact a person you hate has his own family unit. You stand by scam artists and corrupt politicians to further your own twisted enterprises, whatever the Hell they are.

      The truth is you're going to still be here, next year, shaking your clenched fists and promising to rape us in the ass for not sucking your cock thoroughly enough. About the only flattering bit about this is that you think we're all lawyers. Or Aspies.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        DemsAreGarbageSubhumanTrash, 25 Feb 2021 @ 8:12pm

        Re: Re:wow are you Gay!

        Uppity homosexuals are in these days and the media praise you wicked creatures for spreading shltty dlck from mouth to mouth.
        their is nothing smart or tough about a shltty dlck eating homosexualof which you are in spades!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    icon
    restless94110 (profile), 30 Dec 2020 @ 10:43am

    News to Tech Dirt

    Your article is dated.

    Mitch is tying both the repeal of 230 and the 2000 together. We can only hope and pray to whatever God that we hope and pray to that he succeeds in destroying 230 and sending a paltry 2000 to Americans

    But do not fret, Tech Dirt writers. Pakistanis will be indoctrinated in the wonders of gender studies. It's all good. Win-win.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    nope, 31 Dec 2020 @ 3:14am

    or are micth and bernie both owned and told to polarize the issues and thereby create convenient grid lock they both can blame - all while diverting attention from our true oppressors who own and control the usa - far above the level of government. themoneymasters.com

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    DemsAreGarbageSubhumanTrash, 25 Feb 2021 @ 8:04pm

    DEms are not human

    Its to bad that the half of the country that gained control by doing the only thing that they know how too, cheat, lie, steal, If you dont know that there was a Huge voter fraud then you have to be a subhuman democrap. there is evidence everywhere! Ive seen it myself! and im just a normal guy that knows to actually watch when my eyes are open! i saw the voter count for hiden biden going up and up after the official counting was OVER and the count for Trump actually went Down! How is it possible for the votes to go down??? especially by hundreds of thousands of votes! How is it possible to continue to count only biden votes after the voting was Over??? This is only the tip of the Iceburg! Problem is that not one single Demogorgen has the brains or the integrity to even try to find the Truth, The dems are so Vile and Subhuman that they can never allow their evil culture to walk into the light, they would burn and end up in Hell where they came from way sooner than they planned, No they will always be Evil!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Uriel-238 (profile), 25 Feb 2021 @ 8:37pm

      Consider surrendering your guns to a friend.

      You might want to consider contacting a crisis counselor or getting into a support group (a 12-step like AA will do.) Maybe you should give up news and podcasts for a month. Also put some distance between yourself and any dangerous machinery.

      You sound ready to pack your trenchcoat and plastique and go out and massacre a dance venue. Think about how the news agencies will harass your loved ones in the aftermath.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 18 May 2021 @ 8:30am

        Re: Consider surrendering your guns to a friend.

        Think about how the news agencies will harass your loved ones in the aftermath.

        ...Eh, call it natural selection. It's the one of the few things these nutjobs actually believe in.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 25 Feb 2021 @ 10:41pm

      Re: DEms are not human

      Once again, all you people have to do os present evidence for your claims, and some people might be convinced to join you. Why do you refuse to provide such evidence?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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