NYPD Used Reverse Warrants To Round Up Proud Boys Members Suspected Of Beating Antifa Members

from the bringing-Google's-data-slurping-to-a-hashtag-war dept

The first documented case of the NYPD using reverse warrants to find criminal suspects has been revealed. It made its appearance in perhaps the most 2019 of cases: the trial of two members of the Proud Boys facing assault charges for allegedly attacking members of Antifa.

Reverse warrants work this way: law enforcement agencies approach tech companies with geographic coordinates, asking for phone data for all phones within the geofenced area during a certain time frame. Using this data, law enforcement works its way backwards to probable cause, sifting through records to find what phones were in the area when the alleged crime was committed.

Obviously, this is a highly-imperfect way to track down suspects. For one, GPS data collected by companies like Google isn't exactly precise. For another, "fenced-in" areas will always contain numerous people who aren't criminals or even suspects, but the data turns them all into suspects until investigators sort them out. The more heavily-trafficked an area is, the more likely the chance officers will pursue the wrong phones/people.

This case was made a bit trickier by the victims' unwillingness to cooperate with the investigation. As George Joseph reports for Gothamist, the lack of victims to question nudged the NYPD towards deploying the legally-dubious tactic.

The use of this surveillance technique has not been confirmed in New York City until now. An investigator for the Manhattan DA revealed it during testimony last week in a case involving a politically-charged assault from last year.

The defendants are members of the Proud Boys, a group of pro-Trump rightwing extremists who allegedly beat up four leftist protesters, believed to be associated with Antifa, outside an Upper East Side event last October. The four protesters refused to cooperate with police, and authorities were unable to identify them.

According to the New York Times' account of this trial, the victims are evoked repeatedly in the court, despite no one knowing their names. This oddity has lead to the composition of sentences no one has ever read before.

The four who were assaulted refused to talk with the police. They were identified in an indictment only as Shaved Head, Ponytail, Khaki and Spiky Belt. Their whereabouts are unknown.

The two accused Proud Boys members are using the general perception of Antifa as violent to argue these attacks -- which were caught on video -- were actually acts of self-defense. The manhunt for the Proud Boys suspects may have taken the NYPD a bit longer, but the same Antifa that aggravated its own assault also provided law enforcement with plenty of useful information.

“There was a tremendous amount of what we call ‘doxxing,’” the detective, Thomas Mays, testified, using a slang term for the practice of disclosing personal information online. “Names that were given for the individuals.”

However you may feel about this comeuppance of the still-presumed-innocent Proud Boys members, the fact that the NYPD used this tactic successfully should be more than a bit chilling. Here's what the NYPD demanded from Google.

According to the investigator’s testimony, authorities were looking for location records from “Google’s Android platform and Google-based apps, such as Google Maps, [that] utilize location service[s].” The warrant requested records from multiple sites, including where the conflict broke out on 82nd Street and other locations where participants in the clash may have been that evening.

New York City is home to a densely-packed 8.6 million people. Throwing up geofences almost anywhere in the city is bound to return hundreds, if not thousands, of records that have nothing to do with the crime being investigated. At that point, the data is in the NYPD's hands and residents are at the mercy of investigators' haystack-sorting skills.

To make matters worse, if the use of reverse warrants in Minnesota is any indication, judges aren't being given enough information to make judgment calls on the mass harvesting of phone records in search of a suspect. In most cases, all they get are geographic coordinates that tell them next to nothing about the size -- or population density -- of the area targeted. And yet (or perhaps despite this), these warrants are being approved in minutes, suggesting judges are simply trusting the cops know what they're doing with all their highly-technical toys.

In the end, these warrants are surveillance dragnets that grab everyone located inside the coordinates. And it's left up to the discretion of these blue-suited fisherman to determine which of these hundreds of fish gets tossed back into the suspicion-free ocean. Reverse warrants aren't really warrants. Warrants require probable cause. Reverse warrants require only guesswork and faith.

Filed Under: 4th amendment, antifa, nypd, privacy, proud boys, reverse warrant
Companies: google


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  • icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 10:52am

    I’m no fan of the Proud Boys, but I’m even less a fan of the NYPD. Fuck “reverse warrants”.

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    icon
    Zof (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:01am

    It's amazing to me...

    That folks still try to defend the terrorists of Antifa. Now one of their own has committed a mass shooting.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:09am

      Plaintiff argues that the Dayton shooter was part of an organized group that either calls itself “Antifa” or uses “Antifa” in its name. Plaintiff also argues by implication that this so-called “Antifa” group is at least indirectly responsible for the violence carried out by Some Asshole in Dayton. But Plaintiff offers no facts in their argument to support these propositions. The argument is summarily dismissed.

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    • icon
      James Burkhardt (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:01pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      Oh wow. 1 shooter with a history of obsessing over violence whose motives remain unknown but might have self-associated with the general concept of antifa.

      Whereas you have supported Nazi's and white supremicists, whose views and talking points have been explicitly cited as the motivation for multiple mass shootings this year alone.

      I condemn the actions of the Dayton shooter. But to try to claim the high ground over the Dayton shooter when you keep crying about censorship of Prager U whose talking points were repeated by the El Paso shooter is super disingenuous.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Phxfreddy, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:57pm

        Re: Re: It's amazing to me...

        You are a level 12 douche bag on the 10 scale.

        As it turns out I could quote ANY WRITTEN WORK during the commission of such an act. Guess what? Does not make it relevant. Just how dumb are you? Pretty fucking dumb.

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    • icon
      Gary (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:20pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      ...how fast Zof can get downvoted despite it being a Friday afternoon.

      Also surprised the NYC Cops were using reverse (aka non-constitutional) warrants to go after actual terrorists.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Ed (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:45pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      Don't you ever tire of sucking NAZI ass?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:53pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      I bet the NYPD can't get the victims to give any statements because they are also members of the NYPD. Makes this little witchhunt that much more evil.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2019 @ 1:32pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      ... that your stupidity hasn't Darwin'd you out of the gene pool yet

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 4:23pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      Hi Zof!

      Given how many mass shooters support your ideology (pretty much all of them), and the frequency with which you defend that ideology with factually baseless claims -- perhaps you should look at your own nonsense first?

      How 'bout that?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:24pm

        Similarly: Zof has yet to provide evidence of someone committing mass murder either on behalf of antifascists/the nebulous group supposedly called “Antifa” or with antifascist beliefs as a motivator.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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          identicon
          R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:35pm

          Re:

          Did you somehow miss Conor Betts, the Dayton OH shooterss “buhliefs ”, while you were drooling over Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy “theories” ?

          He was even portrayed all over MSM as exactly that.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:37pm

            Did you somehow prove that his political ideology was the primary/sole motivator behind his act of mass murder?

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              identicon
              R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:49pm

              Re:

              Your fact -avoidance syndrome is showing.

              Get the gerbil out of your ass, and get back on your meds. Not that I can “prove ” that you put gerbils in your ass, butt....

              Neither can any mass shooters motives be proven without a trial.

              But modern Kommunity Kulture Klubs and Kovens ( K4)mobbing which precipitates many mass shootings, does seem to push quite a few shooters to the right in their buhliefs; that I can prove.

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        R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:30pm

        Re: Re: It's amazing to me...

        Wel Mike, the right wing has caught on to that little "radicalization ” trick of mercilessly profiling, labelling, othering, and then- cyberstalking /stalking men and boys online and off and now, they are creating guys like Conor Betts, a “left wing ” mass shooter.

        The cats out of the meme now. Neee -ow.

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        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:36pm

          Plaintiff argues via implication that Some Asshole in Dayton, Ohio was driven to commit mass murder on behalf of leftists or with leftist ideology as a motivator. But Plaintiff offers no facts to support this argument. It is therefore dismissed.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 2:13pm

      Re: It's amazing to me...

      It not that you’re a liar that makes you a piece of shit. It’s that you’re so fucking bad at it.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Rekrul, 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:03am

    I misread the title and thought it said "NYPD Used Reverse Warrants To Round Up Proud Boys Members Suspected Of Being Antifa Members".

    I was all set to post a comment about how they probably apologized to the white supremacists, but then I read the article and realized my mistake. I guess it speaks to all the cases of authorities turning a blind eye to white supremacists and other abusers while going after the ones protesting such abuse that I mistook the title to mean that they went after suspected Antifa members.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    TRX, 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:42pm

    My 12-year-old dumbphone will quit working in a few months, when Verizon shuts off 3G service. I might use the phone two or three times a week... enough that I'm strongly tempted to just drop the phone in the trash when it stops working and tell Verizon to cancel my account.

    I wasn't real happy with Verizon selling my tower location information to third parties (my phone just barely predates GPS); the mass of spyware built into modern smartphones makes them too much of a security problem to consider, and frankly, I suspect the same chipset is inside the cheap "feature phones", just not brought out with a fancy touchscreen. It would be crazy to develop a less-featured chipset just for a tiny portion of the market.

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  • identicon
    michael, 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:43pm

    Proud?

    This case was made a bit trickier by the victims' unwillingness to cooperate with the investigation.

    They don't sound very proud, do they?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2019 @ 12:59pm

    I’m confused, the “victims” are unknown? So the government get to prosecute on behalf of victims that refuted to prosecute? Waste of resources all around. No injured party, no crime.

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    • identicon
      any moose cow word, 16 Aug 2019 @ 1:31pm

      Re:

      There was an injured party and a crime. However, many assault cases are not prosecuted without at least one victim pressing charges. That's why organized crime strongarms victims and witnesses. It's not clear why the prosecutor went to such lengths without any involvement from them. Was it flagged as a hate crime? That may have different standards for prosecution.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2019 @ 1:32pm

      Re:

      The injured party is the State of New York. The reason why most "refused to prosecute" cases don't go forward is because, without the victim's testimony, the State doesn't have enough evidence to go forward, not because it isn't still a crime.

      In this case, there's still plenty of video evidence of the assault, so the case can go forward even without the cooperation of the victims.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Gary (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:04pm

        Re: Re:

        Indeed. Assaut is still a crime even if the victims refuse to press charges.

        (Especially in cases like this - a known terror group with a history of intimidating their enemies.)

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2019 @ 1:03pm

    Reverse warrant of cell phone records to round up suspects ... brilliant!
    This will certainly nab the crooks for sure, because everyone has a cell phone on their person, right?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    other, 16 Aug 2019 @ 7:42pm

    i don't have a problem with these searches

    Because I'm sure, if they wanted to, they could ID the victims as well. The problem I do have is that using that data for any other purpose.

    This is why the military recommends that soldiers not wear fitbits or any other tracking apps, because it prefers its soldiers to not get blown up on their morning jog.

    Its also why you should never take a cell phone, or any other device, with you when you're scoping out a crime. And for gods sake, make sure you leave it home when you actually commit the crime.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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      identicon
      R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:21pm

      Re: i don't have a problem with these searches

      Victims? Of what?

      If anything, those alleged victims could have/would have implicated themselves as equally provocative and violent.

      And, for alk you know, they are just more fed level black -block types, in antifa clothing.

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      • icon
        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:30pm

        those alleged victims could have/would have implicated themselves as equally provocative and violent

        They’re not alleged to be victims; video of the beatings exists. Even if — if! — they committed an overt act to provoke the Proud Boys into a response, the racist assholes were the ones who responded with violence. Your statement there reeks of someone asking a rape victim what she was wearing before she was raped.

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          identicon
          R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 10:22pm

          Re: #fakerape for the win!

          Wow, #fakerape and false equivalency ! Hard to argue with that, princess.

          Or, for the record, contributory acts of violence frequently nullify/mitigate secondary acts of violence in a court of law, just like, Emma “fuck me in the ass, please, pleasee,, pleease ”Sulkowitz text messages begging her, "rapist ” to “fuck her in the ass” mitigated his acts after he likely fucked her in the ass preceding her Mattress Girl display (unlike kangaroo courts, or Star Trek Klngon tribunals ), proof exists in court rooms.

          Maybe I should brush up on my Newspeak before. I respond to you again, so we can speak the same language of "proof ” as you cheer trial -by -press.

          But even then you would ask for more “proof ”

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    identicon
    R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 9:16pm

    re: Proudboys as trope

    Its uber -interesting how neocons, racist ADL nembers, and the fascist left have demonized hetero-normative white males as Proudboy racists, while glossing over a significant fact that many of these so-called Proudboys have black /brown /mixed children.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-proud-boys-trial-20190814-ezyd6h3rdzd2zjmmaqxeraa fyu-story.html

    But revealing that inconvenient fact might upset the racist, tribal supremacist narrative, and reveal ADL /Hillel /Israeli/NGO racism-and expose even more inconvenient truths, such as that same racist -tribalist involvement in actively and literally warring against, and dividing such families, and profiting via the social services revenue stream.

    In an aside:
    An interesting FOIA /data practices request would be to the Minnesota BCA regarding how they used Stingrays between 2004-15

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    R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 10:04pm

    I made my point

    Whats yours? More hasbaresque quibbling?

    Or, that modern, low income, working class men who love, marry, create progeny with non-white women are somehow slave owners?

    Gee, that doesnt fit your war on men and boys, racist narrative, does it? What a fact avoidant racist idiot you appear to be.

    BTW: Antifas first mass shooter, Conor Betts said, famously "Kill all fascists!

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/dayton-shooter-may-be-antifas-first-mass-killer/

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    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 10:10pm

      What proof do you have that his act of mass murder was specifically motivated by or carried out in service of his political beliefs?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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        identicon
        R,ogs/s, 17 Aug 2019 @ 3:34am

        Re:

        um.

        The word, “kill, ” implying "to kill, ”aka intent, directed at equally nebulous targets, equally unadjudicated in a court of law, and as adjudicated by the mainstream partisan press press, which is as fond of the phrase "words have consequences ”as they are fond of unadjudicated post mortem “convictions."

        So, by THAT standard (trial by hearsay in the press )he was antifa, the way so many mass shooters car crashers, and butter knifers are labelled altRight (Cosmo Setepenra, Scott Bierle, Gavin Long, Adam Lanza, Mathew Riehl, etc. ).

        The real issue is CVE programs, unchecked, un monitored, and their manufactured terrorism coming home to roost.

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    R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 10:15pm

    read the article

    or STFU

    The guy said: Kill all fascists!

    Um...thats pretty clear, dontchathink, Princess? Maybe you should go back to your #fakerape from your earlier false equivalency-it plays better to the rubes, and their guiding Gomers

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 10:27pm

      thats pretty clear, dontchathink, Princess?

      It would be if his motivations for targeting seemingly random victims and his own sister were as clear as the motives of Some Asshole in El Paso. But without a manifesto similar to the El Paso murderer’s to work from, we can’t know for sure whether the Dayton murderer committed his mass murder either in furtherance of a political ideology, out of an obsession with violence itself, or for some other reason.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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        identicon
        R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:13pm

        Re:

        Do you have proof that the bullet in.his sister is his ?Or, is that just.more ADLified -Zionazi sputum fed by ADLified SWAT teams too thhe press ?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:31pm

          Dude, you need some help for your substance abuse issues.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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            identicon
            R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:44pm

            Re:

            Your pot, your bong, my kettle, ok?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 9:34pm

              Re: Re:

              Bro just stop trying to make comebacks. You only make your self looker stupider than you already are.

              Actually on second thought. Carry on.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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            R,ogs/s, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:25am

            Re: still waiting for evidence

            As we saw in Orlando with Omar Mateen, many of the dead and wounded were killed by police bullets.

            Do you have proof that the bullet that killed “his sister ” actually came from his weapon, Stone, or fo you just repeat whatever the ADLified media tells you to repeat ?

            Ill wait for you to put that bong away, but I wont hold my breath /s The Israelfication of American police, preceded by zionizing trips to the desert, seems to be re -creating the Palestinian Exodus of 1948 complete with manufactured terrorists , but this time, in the USAI

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            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 18 Aug 2019 @ 11:32am

              As we saw in Orlando with [Some Asshole], many of the dead and wounded were killed by police bullets.

              You’re gonna need to provide a citation for that fact, and not from a site like InfoWars or Breitbart.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 18 Aug 2019 @ 5:02pm

              Re: Either way you’re a piece of shit

              So are you just gonna tiptoe around the whole Jew thing or are you gonna go full nazi?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:01pm

    I made my point

    I would think that reputable persons, regardless of politics, would take astand against so -called radicalzation tactics,deployed in fellow cituzens by all the usual suspects.

    But for some reason, each side cherishes their ability to radicalize the others under cover of internet.

    FBI CVE is a mirror of hat Brits and Jews did during the Palestinian Exodus of 1948, and these mass shooters are created exactly the way Israelis create terrorists.

    I,would think Israelfication tactics would bother decent people, but, I am clearly wrong here ,at TD.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:08pm

      Re: I made my point

      You're just another idiot that doesn't understand the difference between replying to a comment and starting a new comment.

      If you can't comprehend that very simple basic concept, how can you be expected to understand anything that hasn't been spoon fed to you.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Mike Masnick (profile), 17 Aug 2019 @ 12:23am

      Re: I made my point

      You have not made any conceivable point other than that your comments tend to be nonsensical, built off of conspiratorial nonsense, and you cannot even understand fairly basic comments.

      Go pollute some other place. We don't need you here.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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        R,ogs/s, 17 Aug 2019 @ 1:29am

        Re: Re: I made my point

        Mike, please provide evidence of what you say about me, or my comments*, I will be glad to refute or concede your specific general points on any one.

        But I provided a link to the Dayton shooters actual, direct statements against alleged fascists, and those statements preceded his actions against who he eventually targeted, for whatever reason.

        And, there is ample evidence that right wing elements in Dayton, international elements elsewhere, and speech monitors from other places are targeting these men and boys well before they go ballistic.

        Equally, a substantial body of evidence -including your own writings -substantiate that an Israelified narrative, and FBI /DHS /NGO/ police tactical CVE social engineering, including Fusion Center monitoring of first amendment speakers online and off contributes to the pre -ballistics in these events.

        Then, their web presence is carefully scrubbed and filtered before the politicized public. These are indisputable facts, ddicccumented in the uber -fact based MSM /s .

        So: where is the conspiracy that you claim, without evidence -that I reference?

        And if truth is pollution, well, I guess I give up.
        Perhaps I had long suffered a delusion that you made sense, practiced reasoned, balanced journalism with integrity, and now you burst my bubble, overlooking the shooters own statements.

        But exactly what about the shooters ACTUAL STATEMENTS online, in the link I provided, indicate that he was not against fascists, aka antifa?

        The larger point, is that CVE manufactured domestic terror creation is a real thing too. Do you also call that “conspiracy theory? ”

        Go tell that to Trevor Aaronson. He writes about manufactured terrorism constantly.

        https://www.amazon.com/Terror-Factory-Inside-Manufactured-Terrorism/dp/1935439618

        *said comments that arent satire, or online guerilla performance art, expressed nefariously in a racialized, tribalized climate of politically charged deplatforming.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Aug 2019 @ 3:29am

          those statements preceded his actions against who he eventually targeted, for whatever reason

          And if you could link those statements to the mass murders as his motivation for committing those murders, you might have a point.

          there is ample evidence that right wing elements in Dayton, international elements elsewhere, and speech monitors from other places are targeting these men and boys well before they go ballistic

          Tell us something we don’t know.

          Equally, a substantial body of evidence -including your own writings -substantiate that an Israelified narrative, and FBI /DHS /NGO/ police tactical CVE social engineering, including Fusion Center monitoring of first amendment speakers online and off contributes to the pre -ballistics in these events.

          Anti-semitism and conspiracy theorism? Damn, son, all you need to do now is say something nasty about gays and you’ll have an alt-right trifecta.

          where is the conspiracy that you claim, without evidence -that I reference?

          You’re the only one talking about conspiracy theories here, son.

          I had long suffered a delusion that you made sense, practiced reasoned, balanced journalism with integrity, and now you burst my bubble, overlooking the shooters own statements

          Nobody is overlooking the statements made by Some Asshole in Dayton. But unless those statements are directly and definitively declared to be the motive for his act of mass violence, there isn’t any sense in leaping to that conclusion. In contrast, the mass murderer in El Paso provided a manifesto that clearly linked his political beliefs to his motivation for those murders.

          exactly what about the shooters ACTUAL STATEMENTS online, in the link I provided, indicate that he was not against fascists, aka antifa?

          The El Paso asshole made clear the connection between his politics and his act of violence in his manifesto. What did the Dayton asshole leave behind that clearly and directly links his politics to his violence?

          CVE manufactured domestic terror creation is a real thing too

          And Techdirt regularly publishes stories about how the FBI manufactures terrorists to score “wins” (i.e., good press).

          comments that arent satire, or online guerilla performance art, expressed nefariously in a racialized, tribalized climate of politically charged deplatforming

          How can anyone tell the difference between your serious posts and your allegedly “satrical” posts when they all look like the same garbage?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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            identicon
            R,ogs/s, 17 Aug 2019 @ 10:28am

            Re: rubber /glue, plus partisan bias

            In case I havent been clear: my work is part performance art, part journalism, and entirely a reaction formation to my abject horror at watching K 4 adopt the tactics of the KKK (K 3).

            In that light, keep in mind that I reported on the first alleged Somali manufactured terrorist in the US, long before Masnick got internetz famous -and then had K 4 and other sordid scum up my ass for more than a decade, because I practiced non -biased journalism( which means that I neither codoned nor accepted ADLified narrative supremacy, unlike TD ).

            As for linking mass shooters alleged manifestos to their alleged crimes, where alleged mass shootings occured, allegedly by their actions, I urge you to study the term “due process,” and its cousin in law “trial by jury” to understand that NO MASS SHOOTERS MOTIVE CAN BE INFERRED, OR KNOWN without a trial by their peers, with evidence, followed by conviction, and as such, no alleged manifesto can be proven to be any one shooters any more than the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion can be proven to be a Rothschild plot.

            Now, to your other bizarre, evidence free point, that I promulgate “conspiracy theories”-can you provide evidence of that?

            Because all I have done is basic gumshoe investigative journalism, and provided links, and facts across a period of time , where such indicate a pattern, replicated across data sets, specifically, K 4 radicalized shooters who are frequently radicalized by incessant, ADL rhetoric fueled community policing, aka, organized gang stalking.

            So, yeah, theres that. With shitloads of evidence.

            So, if you wish to provide evidence (which neither you or Mike has done) of my delusional theoretical basis, please do so, and then, in all fairness, I can refute or concede the veracity of your accusations.

            Now, about your derelict faith in our modern police state, and your sheeple -esque faith in crisis PR sponsored narrative, I urge you to investigate the Pulse nightclub shooting, and how many innocent gay partygoers were slaughtered by SWAT team bullets, as G4S worked its "parallel colliding investigations” magic in sync with FBI CVE programs, against a man who was the son of an FBI asset.

            I will not provide links, because they literally are everywhere for even the laziest Google user to find.

            But its simply a gross mischaracterization of my online work to claim that I engage in conspiracy "theories” when in fact, conspiracy facts are everywhere you look in these cases, starting with gross silence about FBI/DHS/NGO/Community policing, utilizing Fusion Center tracking of targeted persons, and bizarre “communitarian policing”.

            As for the Dayton shooter, his statements alone are evidence enough for Fusion Center informants, ATAP radicalize private contractors, and local police to begin targeting him for hidden, investigatory privileged "threat assessment" aka Israelified “othering”and the attendant online/offline stalking by police/community policing that follows such profiling.

            So, as you ask of me, thus: " unless those statements are directly and definitively declared to be the motive for his act of mass violence, there isn’t any sense in leaping to that conclusion.”

            I ask you to ask those in Fusion Centers, snagogues, churches, and poluce departments in Dayton OH. I mean- it is "they” who have that answer. But I personally have documented evidence of political elements in that area that do EXACTLY what I claim.

            As so many faux-leftists are fond of saying “words have consequences.” So, no small surprise then, that the right has now used that, and radicalized a leftist, who specifically stated that fascists should be killed-and then, killed people in a hipster bar.

            Like any/all of these cases, the only constant is gun control centered press, and hidden radicalization. But in DVIC high policing, proof CANNOT, and DOES NOT exist, in any of these cases, because the facts have not been tried in a court of law.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 10:44am

              Re: Re: rubber /glue, plus partisan bias

              Your bias is so far to the right that you make Ghenghis Khan look like a good communist.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 11:46am

                Re: Re: Re: rubber /glue, plus partisan bias

                Whats with the arbitrary anti -Mongol sentiment, shitpants bro?

                Please go change your rubber pants, little mamas fuck toy.

                I come from a family that shook hands with MLK, and organized the great garbage strikes of the 60s.

                And, I was an antiracist long before people like you figured out that sucking your moms tits at 16 is "abnormal, ” and counter -revolutionary.

                So, really, please stay in Israel, (or Dayton, OH )and maybe, catch a rocket in your face, for humanities sake.

                But leave 成吉思汗 out of your weird social construct, ok?

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Aug 2019 @ 1:05pm

              Every post by Hamilton, Jhon Smith, and Ol’ Blue Balls combined are nowhere near your levels of What The Fuck with this one post.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                Toom1275 (profile), 17 Aug 2019 @ 2:47pm

                Re:

                Even his username is seriously fucked-up trolling.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                  identicon
                  R,ogs/s, 17 Aug 2019 @ 8:42pm

                  Re: Re: I have proven my point

                  Shroom, I’ll take all of that as a win-Ad hom all you want about my nym-what a stupid retort.

                  And Stone still hasnt disproven the link between shooters statements /intent, and his actions, despite the shooters life being a virtual manifesto itself.

                  You guys dont want to engage in substantive dialogue, because you come here for a partisan -charged shot of adrenalin.

                  So, apologies if my suggestion that CVE policies of mobbing by law enforcement is CREATING manufactured terrrorists offends you.

                  And: CVE is political, targeting primarily, first amendment speakers, or in Betts case, singers.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    TFG, 17 Aug 2019 @ 8:57pm

                    Re: Re: Re: I have proven my point

                    Roger, I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say, aside from something about a zionist conspiracy? I think?

                    Can anyone translate?

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • icon
                    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Aug 2019 @ 9:07pm

                    Stone still hasnt disproven the link between shooters statements /intent, and his actions,

                    You made the claim that the political ideologies of Some Asshole in Dayton and his act of lethal violence are directly linked with one another. The burden of proving that claim lies with you. If you can’t prove it, don’t be surprised when I don’t believe it.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                      identicon
                      R,ogs/s, 18 Aug 2019 @ 10:02am

                      Re: still waiting for evidence

                      Stone, heres that “words have consequences” standard of proof that you are discussing.

                      Notice the loose, manifesto -free application to right wing shooters, by the,NewYarwk Times.

                      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/11/business/media/el-paso-killer-conservative-media.htm l

                      I never -anywhere claimed it as proof,because as you see, the double standard here is that as the right wing creates left wing and "satanist” left wing shooters like Betts, and Sol Pais, and a few others, you and these ACs fail to note that the goal posts have shifted, which was my original point before, Masnick shot me in the foot with the faux -progressives favorite poison dart up there.

                      But the NYT goes shitloads deeper into conspiracy theory in that one article than I ever have, anywhere.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 11:33pm

                    Re: The only thing you’ve proven is your a sad little troll

                    “I’ll take all of that as a win”

                    Take it however you want bro. You still sound like an emotionally disturbed 14 year old. Someday, god willing, you will grow up into a useful human being.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                      identicon
                      R,ogs/s, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:30am

                      Re: Re: The only thing you’ve proven is your a sad little trol

                      god willing?

                      TD has been overrun with religious zealots, who do the "work of the lord, ” flagging my posts.

                      I couldnt write better comedy if I tried.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • icon
                        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 18 Aug 2019 @ 11:29am

                        You’ve been trying, and you’ve been failing. And I’m sorry. It’s just that some dumb little shit strolled into this comments section, posted a bunch of bullshit that wouldn’t help him pass a basic English exam, and is now trying to write it off as “performance art” so he won’t feel so bad about being a third-rate troll.

                        Be a sport and go fuck Blue Balls, hmm?

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 18 Aug 2019 @ 5:04pm

                        Re: You’re still a bozo to me

                        “I couldnt write better comedy if I tried.”

                        You are a clown bro. Not the funny ha-ha kind. More the sad sitting in the dark at midnight with a gun in his mouth and a rubber chicken on the table kind.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 9:36pm

              Re: Can’t be bothered to link can’t be bothered to read

              “I will not provide links, because they literally are everywhere for even the laziest Google user to find.”

              That makes you too lazy to back up your own bullshit. Not that we needed another reason to ignore the manure pile you dumped on this thread bro.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                R,ogs/s, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:39am

                Re: Re: Can’t be bothered to link can’t be bothered to read

                None of you have refuted the first lnk provided which documented Connor Betts own statements of intent to "kill fascists,” so whyy waste time with more links ?

                TD has ben overrun with this generations moral majority, who prefer faitth over facts.

                Every argument ends with (see the douchebag siccing the lord on thine heathens a few posts away ) “god /G -D, Gawd, and Gad willing !

                Gad of course, stationed at theADL wholeinternet firehose in Tel Aviv, radicaluzing Americans and others with internet shenanigans, and then webscrubbing the shooters FAANG presence ,after the fact.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                  identicon
                  R,ogs/s, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:49am

                  Re: Re: Re: Can’t be bothered to link can’t be bothered to r

                  ...remember, TD commenters are very fond of the statement "words have consequences. ”

                  Betts statement about killing fascists is EXACTLY enough proof, by that standard.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 18 Aug 2019 @ 11:23am

                  None of you have refuted the first lnk provided which documented Connor Betts own statements of intent to "kill fascists,”

                  You haven’t proven a conclusive link between those statements and the murders committed by that asshole. If you can’t do that, stop acting as if those statements are provably and irrefutably the inspiration for his acts of lethal violence.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 18 Aug 2019 @ 5:06pm

                  Re: Let’s hope modern medicine can help you bro

                  Did... did you just straight up have a stroke while writing that?

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
            identicon
            R,ogs/s, 17 Aug 2019 @ 12:10pm

            Re: anti -shamititiscismiclhlamydiosismasagynaginarism

            Or, whatever your go-to, catch -all, guaranteed argument -winner, false equivocation /supremacist argument from authority trope avails you, poor little goy.

            Poor, desperate guy/goy, who has “one, Jewish friend! ”

            Weird, how all internet discourse boils down to that in the “modern ” era.

            No offense intended with the word “modern, ” of course.

            Of course!

            But next time, bring evidence, ok?

            You have provided zero evidence that I am anti -halotosis, or anti -shamititiscismiclhlamydiosismasagynaginarismistic.

            And, since you dumped that red herring into it, some (((shhhhh, dont say it out loud types ))) even like me, gosh darnit! I have evidence!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    R,ogs/s, 16 Aug 2019 @ 11:42pm

    AC as idiot expert

    lol.

    I dont eat pabulum, and I dont wear diapers anymore, unlike you Anonymous Moms Basement Dweller.

    Lets talk about your anonymity here, shall we?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 10:24am

      Re: AC as idiot expert

      lol... you did it again!

      Instead of replying to my comment calling you an idiot for starting new comments instead of replying, you started a new comment instead of replying... idiot.

      At this point, I can pretty much dismiss anything you say. How can we have an intelligent discussion when you aren't even intelligent enough to understand a simple comment system.

      Lets talk about your anonymity here, shall we?

      Let's start with yours. I am no more anonymous than you are.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        R,ogs/s, 17 Aug 2019 @ 11:57am

        Re: Re: AC as idiot expert

        OK, i concede the point. I pplainly have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of word -hamburger you cooked up here, to whit:

        成吉思汗....

        Oh, wait! I meant this other shit sandwich:

        "Instead of replying to my comment calling you an idiot for starting new comments instead of replying, you started a new comment instead of replying... "

        Listen, little poopy, not everyone understands your brilliant (anonymous ) Aspergers type demand for internet law and order, much.less how to follow your specific (Aspergers deluded ) demands.

        And, sometimes (always ) replying to avowed anonymous COWARDS is counter productive.

        Like, now, for example.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 9:37pm

      Re: You first

      What’s you real name bro?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        R,ogs/s, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:50am

        Re: Re: You first

        I aint your bro, Princess.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 18 Aug 2019 @ 5:11pm

          Re: Am I Speaking to hamilton or jhon or a new fucknugget?

          Poor broseph. You you want to know who your speaking too. So do I. And since it’s your idea. You first. So shit or get off the pot bro.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2019 @ 5:35am

    It's a Stretch

    "Reverse warrants aren't really warrants."

    At first, it seems a convenient thing to control the fallacious reassignment of terms to suit one's own ends. I suspect, however, that when the rubber-band called "cop-speak" finally breaks under the torture of its stretching, the snap-back is going to be frighteningly awful...for the "Law and Order" (and Courts) sectors.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Roy Rogers, 18 Aug 2019 @ 3:46am

    The proud boys have decided to go for a short bus ride
    https://www.fark.com/comments/10527711

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Aug 2019 @ 9:51am

    Antifa, a nice way of saying Nazi. Adolph does approve.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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