Matt Taibbi Can’t Comprehend That There Are Reasons To Study Propaganda Information Flows, So He Insists It Must Be Nefarious

from the not-how-any-of-this-works dept

Over the last few months, Elon Musk’s handpicked journalists have continued revealing less and less with each new edition of the “Twitter Files,” to the point that even those of us who write about this area have mostly been skimming each new release, confirming that yet again these reporters have no idea what they’re talking about, are cherry picking misleading examples, and then misrepresenting basically everything.

It’s difficult to decide if it’s even worth giving these releases any credibility at all in going through the actual work of debunking them, but sometimes a few out of context snippets from the Twitter Files, mostly from Matt Taibbi, seem to get picked up by others and it becomes necessary to dive back into the muck to clean up the mess that Matt has made yet again.

Unfortunately, this seems like one of those times.

Over the last few “Twitter Files” releases, Taibbi has been pushing hard on the false claim that, okay, maybe he can’t find any actual evidence that the government tried to force Twitter to remove content, but he can find… information about how certain university programs and non-governmental organizations received government grants… and they setup “censorship programs.”

It’s “censorship by proxy!” Or so the claim goes.

Except, it’s not even remotely accurate. The issue, again, goes back to understanding some pretty fundamental concepts that seem to escape Taibbi’s ability to understand. Let’s go through them.

Point number one: Studying misinformation and disinformation is a worthwhile field of study. That’s not saying that we should silence such things, or that we need an “arbiter of truth.” But the simple fact remains that some have sought to use misinformation and disinformation to try to influence people, and studying and understanding how and why that happens is valuable.

Indeed, I personally tend to lean towards the view that most discussions regarding mis- and disinformation are overly exaggerated moral panics. I think the terms are overused, and often misused (frequently just to attack factual news that people dislike). But, in part, that’s why it’s important to study this stuff. And part of studying it is to actually understand how such information is spread, which includes across social media.

Point number two: It’s not just an academic field of interest. For fairly obvious reasons, companies that are used to spread such information have a vested interest in understanding this stuff as well, though to date, it’s mostly been the social media companies that have shown the most interest in understanding these things, rather than say, cable news, even as some of the evidence suggests cable news is a bigger vector for spreading such things than social media.

Still, the companies have an interest in understand this stuff, and sometimes that includes these organizations flagging content they find and sharing it with the companies for the sole purpose of letting those companies evaluate if the content violate existing policies. And, once again, the companies regularly did nothing after noting that the flagged accounts didn’t violate any policies.

Point number three: governments also have an interest in understand how such information flows, in part to help combat foreign influence campaigns designed to cause strife and even violence.

Note what none of these three points are saying: that censorship is necessary or even desired. But it’s not surprising that the US government has funded some programs to better understand these things, and that includes bringing in a variety of experts from academia and civil society and NGOs to better understand these things. It’s also no surprise that some of the social media companies are interested in what these research efforts find because it might be useful.

And, really, that’s basically everything that Taibbi has found out in his research. There are academic centers and NGOs that have received some grants from various government agencies to study mis- and disinformation flows. Also, that sometimes Twitter communicated with those organization. Notably, many of his findings actually show that Twitter employees absolutely disagreed with the conclusions of those research efforts. Indeed, some of the revealed emails show Twitter employees somewhat dismissive of the quality of the research.

What none of this shows is a grand censorship operation.

However, that’s what Taibbi and various gullible culture warriors in Congress are arguing, because why not?

So, some of the organizations in questions have decided they finally need to do some debunking on their own. I especially appreciate the University of Washington (UW), which did a step by step debunker that, in any reasonable world, would completely embarrass Matt Taibbi for the very obvious fundamental mistakes he made:

False impression: The EIP orchestrated a massive “censorship” effort. In a recent tweet thread, Matt Taibbi, one of the authors of the “Twitter Files” claimed: “According to the EIP’s own data, it succeeded in getting nearly 22 million tweets labeled in the runup to the 2020 vote.” That’s a lot of labeled tweets! It’s also not even remotely true. Taibbi seems to be conflating our team’s post-hoc research mapping tweets to misleading claims about election processes and procedures with the EIP’s real-time efforts to alert platforms to misleading posts that violated their policies. The EIP’s research team consisted mainly of non-expert students conducting manual work without the assistance of advanced AI technology. The actual scale of the EIP’s real-time efforts to alert platforms was about 0.01% of the alleged size.

Now, that’s embarrassing.

There’s a lot more that Taibbi misunderstands as well. For example, the freak-out over CISA:

False impression: The EIP operated as a government cut-out, funneling censorship requests from federal agencies to platforms. This impression is built around falsely framing the following facts: the founders of the EIP consulted with the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) office prior to our launch, CISA was a “partner” of the EIP, and the EIP alerted social media platforms to content EIP researchers analyzed and found to be in violation of the platforms’ stated policies. These are all true claims — and in fact, we reported them ourselves in the EIP’s March 2021 final report. But the false impression relies on the omission of other key facts. CISA did not found, fund, or otherwise control the EIP. CISA did not send content to the EIP to analyze, and the EIP did not flag content to social media platforms on behalf of CISA.

There are multiple other false claims that UW debunks as well, including that it was a partisan effort, that it happened in secret, or that it did anything related to content moderation. None of those are true.

The Stanford Internet Observatory (SIO), which works with UW on some of these programs, ended up putting out a similar debunker statement as well. For whatever reason, the SIO seems to play a central role in Taibbi’s fever dream of “government-driven censorship.” He focuses on projects like the Election Integrity Project or the Virality Project, both of which were focused on looking at the flows of viral misinformation.

In Taibbi’s world, these were really government censorship programs. Except, as SIO points out, they weren’t funded by the government:

Does the SIO or EIP receive funding from the federal government?

As part of Stanford University, the SIO receives gift and grant funding to support its work. In 2021, the SIO received a five-year grant from the National Science Foundation, an independent government agency, awarding a total of $748,437 over a five-year period to support research into the spread of misinformation on the internet during real-time events. SIO applied for and received the grant after the 2020 election. None of the NSF funds, or any other government funding, was used to study the 2020 election or to support the Virality Project. The NSF is the SIO’s sole source of government funding.  

They also highlight how the Virality Project’s work on vaccine disinformation was never about “censorship.”

Did the SIO’s Virality Project censor social media content regarding coronavirus vaccine side-effects?

No. The VP did not censor or ask social media platforms to remove any social media content regarding coronavirus vaccine side effects. Theories stating otherwise are inaccurate and based on distortions of email exchanges in the Twitter Files. The Project’s engagement with government agencies at the local, state, or federal level consisted of factual briefings about commentary about the vaccine circulating on social media.

The VP’s work centered on identification and analysis of social media commentary relating to the COVID-19 vaccine, including emerging rumors about the vaccine where the truth of the issue discussed could not yet be determined. The VP provided public information about observed social media trends that could be used by social media platforms and public health communicators to inform their responses and further public dialogue. Rather than attempting to censor speech, the VP’s goal was to share its analysis of social media trends so that social media platforms and public health officials were prepared to respond to widely shared narratives. In its work, the Project identified several categories of allegations on Twitter relating to coronavirus vaccines, and asked platforms, including Twitter, which categories were of interest to them. Decisions to remove or flag tweets were made by Twitter. 

In other words, as was obvious to anyone who actually had followed any of this while these projects were up and running, these are not examples of “censorship” regimes. Nor are they efforts to silence anyone. They’re research programs on information flows. That’s also clear if you don’t read Taibbi’s bizarrely disjointed commentary and just look at the actual things he presents.

In a normal world, the level of just outright nonsense and mistakes in Taibbi’s work would render his credibility completely shot going forward. Instead, he’s become a hero to a certain brand of clueless troll. It’s the kind of transformation that would be interesting to study and understand, but I assume Taibbi would just build a grand conspiracy theory about how doing that was just an attempt by the illuminati to silence him.

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Comments on “Matt Taibbi Can’t Comprehend That There Are Reasons To Study Propaganda Information Flows, So He Insists It Must Be Nefarious”

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Anonymous Coward says:

The Effects of Misinformation and Disinformation

This is something I always wonder about. People give a huge amount of credit to the effects of bad or nefarious information (like negative campaign ads), and yet I just have a hard time believing that people, who to me see stubborn and stuck in their ways, as being shifting blindly to whatever they are told to think by someone on Twitter or a television ad. It’s not that I think these don’t have any effect, but I think the actual effect is much smaller than many people believe.

For example, one of my favorites is the claim that the food pyramid caused the obesity epedimic in America. The thought process goes that food companies convinced the government to get people to replace fat with carbs (or more accurately sugar) through the food pyramid, which overemphasized grains and other carbohydrates over proteins like beef and pork. The problem is that no one my age, who grew up with the food pyramid, actually followed it.

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DJ (profile) says:

Re:

It’s important to note that disinformation doesn’t just have to involve trying to change someone’s mind. It could be done to reinforce existing views even after newer information came to light
So you could end up falling for disinformation that ends up reinforcing your POV instead of changing it.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re:

is the claim that the food pyramid caused the obesity epedimic in America.

That did happen, tho. But really it was most likely based on the researchers just thinking they had something figured out but did not, not malice. Ditto saturated and trans-fats.

But what you didn’t see is anyone disagreeing with the food pyramid or saturated fats getting “misinformation” labels applied or shadowbanned, so your analogy falls short.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Tony “Mad Monk” Abbott one of Australia’s not very bright PM’s made the following statement in August 2013, “No one,” said Abbott, “however smart, however well-educated, however experienced … is the suppository of all wisdom.”.

Suppository of wisdom became the byword for Tones and now I pass the baton on to you, Matty the Suppository of Wisdom.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Over here in the US the density of dense pols has gone way up since Trump began his reign of error. We may have lost Representatives Louie Gohmert [of the don’t disparage my asparagus fame] and Michele Bachmann but gained so so many more, I’ll just name 2 that I often can’t keep straight, or a straight face, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lorena Bobbitt er Lauren Boebert, keep getting those names mixed up too. But ‘suppository of wisdom’ is awfully hard to top, like they admit their store of knowledge is nothing but shit they pull out of their ass.

Anonymous Coward says:

In a normal world, the level of just outright nonsense and mistakes in Taibbi’s work would render his credibility completely shot going forward.

Sorry but I have to strongly disagree. Unless you have some very interesting stories to tell (and as a BS in physics I would be super interested in hearing them), this world is the only actual “world” example we have, and so it is definitively “normal”. Perhaps that should have been “In a sane world”?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

As a friend liked to say: “crass refusal does not a rebuttal make”

If you want to (credibly) state that my “thinking” is fallacious, you have to actually show something. Which shouldn’t be hard. I didn’t say a lot.

You might try reading it again a time or two though. I kind of suspect you missed the point (but since you also didn’t say a whole lot, it is hard to be sure).

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

The word “example” resolves that. AFAIK we can’t use any theoretical other worlds as examples since we lack an ability to observe them (examples being necessary for establishing normalcy).

Of course if someone did have (non-fictional) observations from other world that would be very interesting (and also complete non-credible… ).

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Holy strawman, batman!

In any reasonable world, you would be embarrassed and admit you were wrong.

Elon Musk’s handpicked journalists

Ad hominem

revealing less and less with each new edition of the “Twitter Files,”

True, but only because the case has already been proven. There’s nothing else to show, nothing else NEED be shown.

these reporters have no idea what they’re talking about

Meaning you are going to lie about what all those screenshots clearly show.

Over the last few “Twitter Files” releases, Taibbi has been pushing hard on the false claim that, okay, maybe he can’t find any actual evidence that the government tried to force Twitter to remove content, but he can find… information about how certain university programs and non-governmental organizations received government grants… and they setup “censorship programs.”

This is amazing. Please note the lack of links, as you are mischaracterizing what he said. Preparatory “false claim” (according to who?)….”can’t find any actual evidence”, and then shitting on the time honored concept of “follow the money” presumably because it is indeed damning in this case.

Your position on all this seems to be unless someone can find a transcript “Yes, please censor these Thought Criminals/ dissidents, the government paid me to ask you” then there is no “evidence”, and the piles and piles of circumstantial evidence are completely irrelevant. Sir, that level of smoking gun is not even required in murder trials, and here you are denying it all harder than Bill Clinton having “sex with that woman”.

Then you pivot to “studying the info is important” as if that is a refutation of the fact those think tanks were pressuring Twitter to censor people (and that is a documented fact as Taibbi has shown) presumably at government request (who was funded them).

Oh, and then you quote the accused as a “debunker”. Perf! Keep in mind that it’s not that no one thinks they were “studying” anything. The problem is that they also were “real-time efforts to alert platforms to misleading posts”, which they probably shouldn’t do and definitely shouldn’t do so if the government is their sole funder (or even if it’s only partial) cuz yeah, that’s censorship by proxy.

“Studying the information” does not require meeting with Twitter dozens of times a week you fucking idiot The purpose of those meetings, and the conferences, is obviously to lobby, cajole and direct Twitter on what to censor. And oh, btw, there were real ex-spooks runnning around in those meetings and conferences, not just passive academics.

So go ahead, worry about giving Taibi and Bari Weiss and Schellenberger “credibility”. Weiss alone has more credibility in her little finger than you have had in your life.

*Jonathan Turley thinks it was censorship by proxy.

*Robby Soave thinks it was obviously censorship by proxy.

*Jacob Sullum thinks it was obviously censorship by proxy

*Robert E. Wright thinks it was obviously censorship by proxy

(I can provide links, but if I do now your crappy site will delay this for a day)

All those people have more credibility than you. (as do Taiibi, Weiss and Shellenberger) All of them say you are obviously, hilariously wrong.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

Ad hominem

How is it an attack on Musk’s character or personal traits to point out that he handpicked the journalists that should receive the documents?

Words have meanings, Matthew.

True, but only because the case has already been proven. There’s nothing else to show, nothing else NEED be shown.

Everything needs to be shown, because the people who would supposedly show it fell at the first hurdle.

Meaning you are going to lie about what all those screenshots clearly show.

Interesting comment, considering that the people who actually work(unlike Taibbi) with this are about to point out why Taibbi is full of it. Are those people lying as well, Matthew?

The purpose of those meetings, and the conferences, is obviously to lobby, cajole and direct Twitter on what to censor.

Prove it.

And oh, btw, there were real ex-spooks runnning around in those meetings and conferences, not just passive academics.

So?

*Jonathan Turley thinks it was censorship by proxy.

So?

*Robby Soave thinks it was obviously censorship by proxy.

*Jacob Sullum thinks it was obviously censorship by proxy

Two reporters biased against the government think that the government did a bad. Shocker.

*Robert E. Wright thinks it was obviously censorship by proxy

So?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

Ad hominem

How is it an attack on Musk’s character or personal traits to point out that he handpicked the journalists that should receive the documents?

Oh dear. I know reading comp isn’t your strong suit, but it’s not. It’s ad hominem against Taibbi, as it is implying he is biased, and thus attacking the source, not the evidence.

It’s worse than that, it doesn’t even make sense since by definition any journalist Musk choose to give access to incriminating documents would be “handpicked”. It’s utterly meaningless, yet meant to attack the source.

Everything needs to be shown

It has. I highly doubt anyone would allow the meetings to be recorded or transcribed, which is about the only thing that would be left.

people who actually work(unlike Taibbi) with this

Taibbi actually works with this you fucking Walnut.

Prove it.

“Obvious” means obvious.

ex-spooks
So?

Seriously?

Two reporters biased against the government think that the government did a bad.

So that’s ad hominem, again, but you also say that like it’s a bad thing, which is weird. They’re called libertarians. Masnick used to pretend to be one, part of why his shilling is infuriating now.

so?
so?
so?
so?

They’re 4 people with a lot more credibility and expertise than Masnick pointing out he’s a fucking idiot. Which is extra funny cuz Masnick’s always pretending he’s going to explain to you how the sun is green and the grass hot pink.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

This is the most intelligent thing you’ve ever said, and it’s still sad. Amazing.

  1. It is ad hominem
  2. I pointed out WHY the ad hominem was especially pointless and dumb in this case.

Ad hominem is basically only ever valid when you are pointing out a true ulterior motive to lie. (your quote isn’t quite correct) Doesn’t apply here.

Thanks for playing, tho! This is way better than your usual! I’m proud of you!

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

It’s ad hominem against Taibbi, as it is implying he is biased, and thus attacking the source, not the evidence.

No, implying bias is called poisoning the well.

It’s worse than that, it doesn’t even make sense since by definition any journalist Musk choose to give access to incriminating documents would be “handpicked”.

He didn’t have to pick journalists. He could have just publicized them himself and then let every journalist have equal access.

“Obvious” means obvious.

“Obvious” doesn’t excuse you from providing proof or an explanation. And just because it’s obvious to you doesn’t mean it is obvious to everyone.

Taibbi actually works with this you fucking Walnut.

Journalists aren’t legal experts, so no.

HotHead (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

It’s ad hominem against Taibbi, as it is implying he is biased, and thus attacking the source, not the evidence.

Ad hominem is basically only ever valid when you are pointing out a true ulterior motive to lie.

It’s more general than that. Ad hominem is using a speaker’s character to weaken/refute the speaker’s evidence/argument. Ad hominem is a fallacy only if the argument using ad hominem is wrong. If Matt Taibbi’s writings were inaccurate/misleading in the past then it would be reasonable to read Taibbi’s current writings with a slight assumption that Taibbi’s current narrative is inaccurate/misleading. That’s ad hominem.

You do the same with Mike Masnick’s writing. You assume that Mike’s new articles are wrong because Mike has written previous inaccurate articles from your point of view. Before you start reading an article, you assume that Mike’s argument is wrong because he has low credibility in your eyes. That’s ad hominem, and only a fallacy if Mike is correct where you said he is wrong.

Anyway, if you read this article then you should’ve seen that Mike WAS engaging with Taibbi’s evidence, not relying on Taibbi’s character to avoid addressing the evidence.

Appendix of ad hominem examples:

  1. “You are a bad person. Therefore your argument is wrong.” This is ad hominem.
  2. “You are a bad person. Therefore people shouldn’t believe you.” Ad hominem.
  3. “You’ve lied in the past. Therefore, you must be lying now.” Ad hominem.
  4. “You’ve lied in the past. You are also lying now.” Not ad hominem (without extra information).
  5. “Your argument is wrong.” Not ad hominem.
  6. “Your argument is wrong. Therefore you are a bad person.” Not ad hominem.
  7. “You are a bad person.” Not ad hominem.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Elon Musk’s handpicked journalists

Ad hominem

No, it isn’t. It’s not an insult, nor is it being used as the argument. Elon Musk deliberately chose these journalists to receive the Twitter Files. That is a fact.

revealing less and less with each new edition of the “Twitter Files,”

True, but only because the case has already been proven. There’s nothing else to show, nothing else NEED be shown.

No. The case has not yet been proven. This has been pointed out multiple times to you. That you don’t agree on what they say or what needs to be shown doesn’t change that.

Your position on all this seems to be unless someone can find a transcript “Yes, please censor these Thought Criminals/ dissidents, the government paid me to ask you” then there is no “evidence”, and the piles and piles of circumstantial evidence are completely irrelevant.

No, you don’t even have that much.

Sir, that level of smoking gun is not even required in murder trials, and here you are denying it all harder than Bill Clinton having “sex with that woman”.

Again, no. You have, at best, circumstantial evidence pointing to something perfectly legal: Studying the spread of misinformation.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Buddy, just say “I have no arguments”. The case has been proved. Even former Twitter employees were open about being pressured via tough questions.
https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1607383214452080647/photo/1
They were also openly calling out Hamilton68 for being fraud
https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1619029777444384768
They were openly talking about how being pressured by GEC too
https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1610394232832905216
There is too much at this point.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Ah the wonders of confirmation bias.

‘The government paid groups to study misinformation and propaganda therefore those groups must have been the ones engaging in both at their behest’ is kinda like saying that if the government pays a group to study infectious diseases and how to combat them that group must be responsible for spreading diseases.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re:

Well, except the group in question not only was credibly accused of spreading diseases but admitting to doing so (but only a little bit!) in their “rebuttal”.

real-time efforts to alert platforms to misleading posts

That. That is not OK, actually. It IS censorship by proxy. Regardless of whether Masnick or the DNC want to admit to it.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

That doesn’t answer the question, Matthew. That just answers the question “What does Jonathan Turley think happened at Twitter and what does he think about it?”. But that wasn’t what I asked.

I asked what illegality exists in a notification from the government. Not an order, decree, command, directive, mandate or otherwise suggestion under the threat of force or other repercussion.

A notification.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

You do understand the difference between a personal opinion and established jurisprudence?

Turley also conveniently forgets to mention some very important particulars and instead presents his opinion on something as “fact”. Intentional or not, that taints anything he has to say on the matter.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Opinions and assertions doesn’t prove something is illegal until they survive in a court of law, or are you going to keep insisting that something is illegal that hasn’t been adjudicated yet?

One of your problems is that you think you’re smarter than everyone else which isn’t remotely true in any sense.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

That doesn’t answer the question. That’s just a journalist’s personal opinion about whether or not what they believe Twitter did would be illegal based on how they interpret the law. The question is about what makes notifications from the government with no coercive elements illegal in the abstract. Your source claims that they weren’t just notifications, so that doesn’t answer the question.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Well, I’m sure the multiple investigations in the House will result in tons of prosecutions, including for Dr. Fauci.

You people have a great history of investigations that send hordes of people to jail. Take Benghazi for example…

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Yep, sure do wiseass.

And I’m sure you understand that investigations, in particular, those that have been performed 11 times over, should produce something called ‘output’ from which a prosecutor could bring charges.

Was your comment supposed to be useful? Don’t you have confidence that the House will bring Dr. Fauci to justice vis-a-vis some investigation?

Or do you want to fuck around with semantics some more, dumbass?

Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

House trolls, being ignorant of the way science works, are unable to comprehend that when new research reveals new facts, good scientists and doctors (Dr Fauci is both) will change their practices and recommendations based on that new data.

House trolls, being ignorant of the way science works, also believe in precognition, and somehow think that because Tony Fauci is brilliant, he must also be aware of what will happen in the future as well as what happened in the past, and thus must have known that new research would change the recommendations on masks. And yet somehow he wilfully, and against all precedent and practice in his career, chose not to reveal that knowledge to Congress.

Because Dr Fauci has apparently spent a lifetime in public service doing fuck all to help ordinary Americans not die from avoidable causes.

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Toast says:

Re:

This is especially funny because questioning sources this way is important because „follow the money“ and „Connect the dots“, but don‘t question Matt Taibbi and his Connection to Musk, because „ ad hominem, Talk about the facts not the source!!!“

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re:

Purveyors of dis- and misinformation

Yes, actually.

“Jews are being loaded up in cattle cars”

“I’m sorry, that’s misinformation. BTW, where did you come by this erroneous information? We’re just trying to help protect you.”

I’m sure you think that’s hyperbole. Which is exactly why I’m worried it’s just a step or two away.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re:

This is all really obvious conceptually,

So fed into preexisting bias, check

provide lots of useful evidence for your claims,

He actually didn’t do that at ALL

which is notably absent from the Twitter files.

The twitter files was basically nothing BUT evidence.

Well there you have it, the typical Techdirt reader

Bruce C. says:

Censorship...

TL;DR – it’s not censorship when someone debunks your bizarre conspiracy theory. It’s called fact-checking. You can do it too. Maybe BEFORE you make your wild claims next time.

On related note, have you ever wondered why there’s so little news about people going after the misinformation that comes out of the advertising industry? “Please post your conspiracy theory in the comments below…”

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re:

A “fact check” is just some journalist’s opinion.

How are you still alive when you play it so fast and loose with reality?

And it certainly would be censorship if the content was removed based on a supposed “fact check”.

The content could be removed for whatever reason, including but not limited to the owner of the platform thinking that the poster was a moron, but it still wouldn’t be censorship. It would simply be the owner expressing their 1A rights.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Well, there I disagree, on the principle that you can express your free speech rights by denying someone else free speech on something you control, which is a. censorship but b. not a denial of their free speech rights.

So, in reply to Mr. Bennett above:

‘And it certainly would be censorship if the content was removed based on a supposed “fact check”.’

Yeah, and so what? I’ll censor people lying about reality all day and twice on Sunday’s. S’why I boot tits like you.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

ie, as someone I used to know put it, “your rights end at my door”.

Though, to be extremely pedantic, it’s only technically censorship when you take it outside of your house.

That is, if you then drop a lawsuit on the offender to not break your house rules/not say bad things anywhere if they want to not be given the boot.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
mechtheist (profile) says:

I really like Taibbi, he HAS done a lot of good work and he’s hilarious, that’s a major plus for me. So it’s been with growing disappointment and confusion to see this crap he’s been putting out. The more I read of the twitter files, I kept seeing example after example where what he’s saying the quoted dox said and what they actually said just didn’t match up. Early on, he admitted to hearing that requests for removal came from the GOP also but he hadn’t seen any in the files he had. What should that tell anyone? But it didn’t seem to inform Taibbi of anything. You can’t do a comparison of such a thing without FULL access to ALL the data, without that you got nuthin.

Countless times the dox show a great deal of resistance to going with the requests, to twitter folks checking everything out for themselves, and NOT following through with lots if not most requests. It’s right there in the quotes and he’s describes it as virtually rubber stamping whatever request came from government sources. It makes no sense, it’s just sad.

Thad (profile) says:

Re:

I really like Taibbi, he HAS done a lot of good work and he’s hilarious, that’s a major plus for me. So it’s been with growing disappointment and confusion to see this crap he’s been putting out.

this is the thing that’s finally giving you pause?

Dude. I used to be a fan of Taibbi’s too, but he’s been off the rails for years. Probably always was; it’s just that his knee-jerk contrarianism seemed like principle at first.

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