Community Notes Is Great Until It Challenges Elon, And Then It’s Being ‘Manipulated’ By State Actors

from the amazing-that-state-actors-only-target-elon dept

Oh Elon. As we’ve discussed, Elon is infatuated with Community Notes as a sort of crowdsourced alternative to actually funding a trust & safety staff and tooling. And while we actually like Community Notes and think more social media should use similar tools, it’s simply not a full trust & safety replacement.

But, over the past year, we’ve seen that Elon loves to point out when Community Notes supports his priors, and repeatedly claims victory when Community Notes debunks (or even quibbles with) content that Musk doesn’t like. If you look, you can find him cheering on Community Notes time and time again.

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Not too long ago, ExTwitter changed the terms of its creator payout system such that creators who regularly get fact-checked via Community Notes will no longer get payouts.

But… how does the man in charge feel about things when he gets fact checked via Community Notes? Well, it appears that his tune quickly changes. While there have been a few times he’s been Community Noted in the past, and he’ll sometimes brush it off with a “yes, even I’m open to having such notes placed on my account,” when it’s a higher profile thing he seems to freak out.

Over the weekend, Tucker Carlson started pushing a very misleading story regarding YouTube sensationalist Gonzalo Lira who made his name as one of those jackass “dating coaches,” (i.e., “pickup artists”) who became a pro-Russia propagandist once the invasion of Ukraine began. Carlson’s version of the story pitched Lira as a “journalist” who was “imprisoned in Ukraine” for “criticizing Zelensky.”

Lira was arrested earlier this year for violations of Ukraine’s criminal code. There are many legitimate questions that can be asked regarding the nature of Ukraine’s laws regarding propaganda and free speech. But, the underlying accusations against Lira seem more focused on how he was revealing the identity and location of both Ukrainian soldiers and western journalists covering the war.

Either way, Musk picked up on Carlson’s story, falsely claimed Lira had been imprisoned for 5 years, and trying to demand answers as to what was happening with him. Community Notes quickly stepped in to first point out that Carlson’s description of Lira’s situation was misleading, and then that Elon’s tweets were also misleading.

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After discovering that his own posts were being Community Noted (will he lose access to monetization?), he started claiming that “state actors” were “gaming” Community Notes. And then, hilariously, claimed that this was really a “honey pot” to catch those gaming the system.

The Community Notes folks quickly hit back:

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They pointed out that:

Community Notes requires agreement from contributors of differing perspectives, as such is highly resistant to gaming. The entire Community Notes algorithm and data is open source, and can be reviewed by anyone…

Community Notes ftw.

Soon after that, the Community Notes on Elon’s post disappeared. Funny that.

And… soon after that, a different Community Note appeared on Elon’s tweet again pushing back on the idea that Community Notes was easy to game:

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So, yes, any such system of crowdsourcing things can be gamed, though ExTwitter’s implementation of Community Notes (a modification of the tool Polis) is done in a way that, at the very least, makes it resistant to such gaming. It’s not impossible to game, but it’s also not easy given the way it’s set up.

But, still, given how often Elon acts like Community Notes is an infallible system that solves most of his trust & safety issues, it’s interesting to note that apparently it’s only “gamed” by “state actors” when its calling out his own false tweets. The rest of the time Community Notes is so accurate that the company can base payment information on it. So, when Community Notes supports Elon’s views, it’s a key part of ExTwitter’s platform strategy. When it goes against Elon’s views, it’s being abused by state actors.

What an astounding coincidence.

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Comments on “Community Notes Is Great Until It Challenges Elon, And Then It’s Being ‘Manipulated’ By State Actors”

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This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Rico R. (profile) says:

Re:

There’s no such thing as “private-actor…censorship”. If a private social media company removes your post or kicks you off their platform, that’s their First Amendment right. To say that they must host your content is a violation of the First Amendment. Note how nowhere in this reply did I mention one side of the political aisle or the other. That’s because this principle is not dependent on anyone’s political views! But go on, try to tell me that exposing the hypocrisy Elon is displaying by blaming community notes on his content on state actors is not justifiable…

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Wait a couple years, and you will be able to call it “free” as in “can purchase for $0.

Actually, I am guessing that it will be “purchase for the low, low cost of $a-crapton-of-debt, but gain a toxic but very well known brand which might be worth something to someone willing to invest in content moderation when rebuilding nearly everything from scratch.”

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Matthew M Bennett says:

Remember when you said the suit against Media Matters didn't claim defamation?

….and then I read through the complaint itself and the entire thing alleges and details defamation in great detail, including the essential elements of false statement of fact, malice, and damages? And was summarized in the Cause of Actions? Meaning you just straight lied?

…Pepperidge Farms remembers.

But Community Notes is absolutely great but of course it can be gamed. “Resistant” is not “Immune”. Yes of course something like Ukraine or Singapore is likely to see “state actors” with fairly famous hacker armies come to play.

The old system obviously got “gamed” by the FBI and CDC so I think Community Notes is doing pretty well by that metric.

given how often Elon acts like Community Notes is an infallible system

I don’t think he ever said that but mischaracterizing thing is like, your whole deal.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

Except none of the causes of action claim defamation, even though they keep mentioning it over and over again. They only claim “business disparagement”, and no, that’s not the same thing. If you think it is, that’s because you’re as dumb as Musk’s lawyers.

Stop pretending that you can read, Matty.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

Yes it is the same thing, actually, and much more importantly the Cause of Action go ahead and allege defamation (summarized from previous 11 pages).

You realize there’s nothing special about the word itself, “defamation” (usually separated out into libel and slander). It’s not a magic keyword you have to evoke. If you list all the parts of defamation in request for redress you have in fact alleged defamation (mostly libel, here, actually). (Both “Defame” and “Defamatory” occur many times in the document, still not a keyword)

You’ve repeatedly shown yourself an idiot, so I suspect you really think it has to be used as a keyword– but it doesn’t. Masnick I suspect knows all that — he’s just lying.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yes it is the same thing, actually,

Cite a source or stop lying.

much more importantly the Cause of Action go ahead and allege defamation

Let me quote the cause of action to you in its entirety:

SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION
Business Disparagement
45. X Corp. re-alleges and incorporates by reference the above allegations.
46. Defendant Media Matters made statements that disparaged the quality of X Corp.’s
product, X.
47. Defendant Media Matters made these statements as statements of fact, not opinion.
Defendant Media Matters represented that X “has been placing” advertisements next to anti-
Semitic and racist materials. It represented that it “found” these materials next to advertisements.
Case 4:23-cv-01175-P Document 1 Filed 11/20/23 Page 12 of 15 PageID 12
13
48. As extensively explained above, these statements made by Defendant Media
Matters were false.
49. Defendant Media Matters intentionally made these statements with clear malice,
well aware of their falsity.
50. X Corp. suffered monetary loss as a result of these statements: companies
mentioned in Defendant’s false and misleading article pulled their advertising from X indefinitely

Where’s the allegation, Matty? The entire cause doesn’t even contain the word you keep claiming it alleges.
Just be a big boy for once and accept that you’re wrong.

It’s not a magic keyword you have to evoke.

If you’re making causes of action, you have to actually allege the thing. You can’t just keep saying “defamation” in all its variants over and over again throughout a filing, and then skip the word in the causes of action.
Fucking hell, I’m neither a lawyer nor an American, and I have a better grasp on this from 5 minutes of googling than you do.

Not to mention that you have been told by an actual lawyer that you’re wrong. But no, bratty Matty is the real legal expert here! It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad and pathetic.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Cite a source or stop lying.

Masnick tends to sit on outside links for a day, I’ll link it in a reply to this comment.

You can’t just keep saying “defamation” in all its variants over and over again throughout a filing, and then skip the word in the causes of action.

You actually can, I’m not sure what part of “It’s not a magic keyword” you don’t get. But as Masnick is somehow making a stink about this is technically a “disparagement” claim, which….yeah, is actually pretty much the same as defamation but for businesses.

Fucking hell, I’m neither a lawyer nor an American, and I have a better grasp on this from 5 minutes of googling than you do.

You also keep on saying defamation suits are “censorship” because it’s decided by a judge, despite my continually pointing out it’s decided by a jury….and you keep on saying “judge”. So I’m gonna hold on off on my amazement with your learning capacity.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

But as Masnick is somehow making a stink about this is technically a “disparagement” claim, which….yeah, is actually pretty much the same as defamation but for businesses.

So…not defamation, since defamation is for people. Thank you for finally admitting that you’re wrong.

You also keep on saying defamation suits are “censorship” because it’s decided by a judge

It’s incredible how you keep coming up with these weird fantasies about what people say. I have never said that, and if you think I have, then quote me. Until then, you’re just lying, which is quite hypocritical.

Eli Array Minkoff says:

Re: Lazy lies

I seem to recall Mike Masnick specifically mentioning that the filing accused MM4A of defamation, but didn’t legally claim defamation, which is a massive difference from a legal standpoint. Remember, truth is an absolute defense, and while it claims that Media Matters was dishonest, it failed to point to any false claim. What Media Matters did was go to known Nazi content to find advertising from major brands. The fact that they found it was the story. Of course they wouldn’t have seen ads on Nazi content if they didn’t look at Nazi content, but that’s completly besides the point.

For someone so quick to accuse people of antisemitism in recent months, you seem quite eager to defend Elon Musk, known antisemite.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

The specific lie was when Media Matters wrote articles claiming that people would come across such a result organically. They would not.

it failed to point to any false claim

The complaint listed MANY false claims, actually. Are you lying on purpose, or just an idiot who didn’t read it?

For someone so quick to accuse people of antisemitism in recent months, you seem quite eager to defend Elon Musk, known antisemite.

I mean, he’s not, but I’m really looking forward to you trying to equivocate criticizing Soros and advocating for real, actual genocide.

Go ahead, call me an anti-semite too, I think Soros is a piece of shit.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

The specific lie was when Media Matters wrote articles claiming that people would come across such a result organically. They would not.

Bull Fucking Shit.

Read the goddam article: https://www.mediamatters.org/twitter/musk-endorses-antisemitic-conspiracy-theory-x-has-been-placing-ads-apple-bravo-ibm-oracle

Read the text:

“During all of this Musk-induced chaos, corporate advertisements have also been appearing on pro-Hitler, Holocaust denial, white nationalist, pro-violence, and neo-Nazi accounts. Yaccarino has attempted to placate companies by claiming that “brands are now ‘protected from the risk of being next to’ potentially toxic content.””

“But that certainly isn’t the case for at least five major brands: We recently found ads for Apple, Bravo, Oracle, Xfinity, and IBM next to posts that tout Hitler and his Nazi Party on X.”

Where is the statement that people would come across the such a result organically?

They said the ads appeared alongside pro-Hitler and pro-Nazi content. They literally did and Media Matters provided the screenshots to prove it. You had to invent a claim they didn’t make in order to pretend they lied. That’s fucking telling, not just about how stupid Musk is, but about how you have no integrity, or even the ability to google a topic for five seconds.

The funniest thing to me though is that we’re arguing about whether or not the pro-Nazi posts appeared next to corporate ads rather than discussing why pro-Nazi posts are even allowed on a private social media platform. Except we know why, because Musk is an antisemite.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

The specific lie was when Media Matters wrote articles claiming that people would come across such a result organically. They would not.

Media Matters never said it would happen organically. So… is a lie that no one said even a lie? Hmmm…

But yeah, the article by Media Matters never said anything about it happening organically or anything. As such, the lie is something never said, meaning it can’t be the basis for a lawsuit of any kind.

The complaint listed MANY false claims, actually. Are you lying on purpose, or just an idiot who didn’t read it?

Nothing it alleged to be false was anything Media Matters actually said. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you actually, y’know, point to something actually in the MM article that the complaint claims to be false, rather than just saying, “The complaint listed many false claims,” with no specificity or evidence whatsoever.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

On what page were you able to find the word ‘defamation’ you lying sack of pig shit?

Wasn’t the lawyers telling you business disparagement and business defamation not being the same thing in the other thread enough for you to stop repeating the same bullshit?

Of course not! Because one thing you cocksure dumbfucks do consistently is stick to your positions (except when it comes to being wrong about horse dewormer or aquarium cleaner as an effective treatment for COVID – then you’re fine being a burden to those needing a hospital bed or ventilator, despite how ‘wrong’ they are).

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/12/11/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-is-also-libel-tourist-vexatious-slapper-elon-musk/#comment-3473376

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/12/11/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-is-also-libel-tourist-vexatious-slapper-elon-musk/#comment-3473452

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/12/11/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-is-also-libel-tourist-vexatious-slapper-elon-musk/#comment-3473600

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/12/11/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-is-also-libel-tourist-vexatious-slapper-elon-musk/#comment-3473690

(Need more examples, fool? Or are you just going to clutter this article with the same shit that you posted on the other one? Kindly let us know when you get some new material, you ignorant fucktard.)

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

What the fuck are you talking about? The actual complaint says “Defame” and “Defamatory” maybe a dozen times each.

Why are you linking TD articles? What does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?

Wasn’t the lawyers telling you business disparagement and business defamation not being the same thing in the other thread enough for you to stop repeating the same bullshit?

The “actual lawyer” was wrong. In common english they very much are the same thing, legally, they’re about as different as slander and libel.

Jesus, are you OK?

BTW, just because this is fun: That the covid vaccine had a negligible effect on transmission is scientifically proven at this point. (I’m not a lawyer, but I was trained as a scientist) Also, btw, a whole LOT (most, maybe) of antiparasitic drugs seem to have a mild antiviral effect. This has been known for like…a century? No one knows why.

“aquarium cleaner” is a funny way to say “chlorine” but do liberals even know what a joke is?

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Why are you linking TD articles?

I’m linking to your COMMENTS, fuckface. Is a ‘comment’ an ‘article’ now?

What does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?

Who the fuck cares? I’ve got free speech, so suck it.

In common english they very much are the same thing, legally, they’re about as different as slander and libel.

In legal documents, they are not.

That the covid vaccine had a negligible effect on transmission is scientifically proven at this point.

Tell that to the 1.1M dead Americans. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your expertise.

(I’m not a lawyer, but I was trained as a scientist)

‘Trained’ is not the same thing as ‘competent.’ And its clear as hell that you’re not a lawyer. You’ve proven that many times over.

“aquarium cleaner” is a funny way to say “chlorine” but do liberals even know what a joke is?

Apart from the idiot who drank and died from it? Not for nothing, but he had problems with words just like you do.

Mamba (profile) says:

Re:

Fucking fuck man, you are exhausting.

You’ve been here for a year spouting your ignorant bullshit and have been demonstratively wrong about…well, everything. All your arguments are transparently cribbed from right wing loony toons without more than a cursory understanding, which is why your arguments collapse under even the slightest examination. You argue the law with lawyers despite your lack of education or experience, you create your own definitions of words contrary to any existing use or art or formal definition, you regularly post evidence that directly contradicts your claims, and not once have you acknowledged even the most basic error amongst your numerous failures.
Which is quite a feet of dedication and self flagellation all for the benefit of Elon Musk. Who appears to be suffering a narcissistic break in full view of the world while burning down what remains of a 44 billion dollar investment.

And, now that you’re not getting enough attention in the other threads, you’re now posting in random threads to demonstrate your stupidity.

Like, what’s the end plan here? You’re hostile, dumb, and prolific. Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows that you’re a complete toolshed. If at any point you had some credibility it’s long since evaporated. People reflexively, and correctly, flag your posts as spam instantly.

Is the negative attention fulfilling in your empty life? Are you so emotionally stunted that you think you’re actually influencing people?

The only poster who’s more obnoxious than you, is the twerp who impersonates you. And even that’s pretty marginal.

Also. You’re just a shitty person, and you should just fuck right off.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Reality also notes that Elon has complied with Indian and Turkish demands to take down “offensive” tweets.

Reality would also like to remind you that he has written puff pieces for the Chinese Communist Party as well.

Any sane person would look at the evidence thus far, and conclude that Elon fucking loves authoritarian regimes more than America or his birthplace, South Africa.

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