Confused Musician Threatens Google, Blog Because Her Works Are Found Elsewhere On The Internet

from the there-are-ignorant-people-on-all-sides-of-this-debate dept

If you look hard enough, on any side of a big debate, you can find people who are really ignorant, but not afraid to speak their minds. And, yes, this certainly includes those who are concerned about what has become of copyright law. You may recall that writer Mark Helprin wrote an entire book based on taking a few dumb comments from Techdirt out of context, and pretending that they were representative of the views of those who think copyright law has some serious problems. So, you have to be careful not to take a few ignorant comments and extrapolate further viewpoints on a particular subject. Still, sometimes, you come across an example of someone who is so willfully ignorant that it’s difficult to know how to respond.

Take, for example, the ordeal that the site Torrentfreak recently went through, with famed 60s session musician Carol Kaye, who apparently doesn’t quite understand how BitTorrent (or, potentially, the internet) works. Somehow, she got it into her head that Torrentfreak — which is just a blog that writes about this stuff — was distributing her works in an unauthorized manner. Of course, as a blog site that doesn’t distribute any files, nothing could be further from the truth — and the Torrentfreak folks tried to politely explain this to Ms. Kaye. They even went so far as to offer to contact the admins of certain torrent tracker sites about removing links to the files she was concerned about.

Rather than admit her mistake (and maybe even thank them for their help) she sent a series of increasingly angry emails, such as the following:

You’re a liar, a pirate, and a thief and a no-body — you’re coming down buddy, don’t give me that run-around BS! Whoever you are, you’re THIEF AND A DELIBERATE PIRATE!

So much for helping. She also had her friends start emailing the TorrentFreak folks with similarly misguided emails. I’m reminded of a rather angry Hollywood lawyer who has blogged repeatedly bizarre (and totally false) claims about me — saying that I (seriously) command an army of hackers who will vehemently attack any musician or songwriter who dares to disagree with me. Perhaps some readers here get a bit aggressive in responding to questionable statements made by musicians/songwriters, but you can always find some people who go too far — on either side, as the experience of TorrentFreak demonstrates.

In the case of Carol Kaye, however, it looks like this isn’t the only time she’s been confused about how the internet works. Some folks note that on her own website is a statement suggesting that she thinks Google is responsible for unauthorized access to her content, and she’s expecting the FTC to fix that:

Please do not download any of my books/CDs from Google. I filed FTC Complaint #25172648 against Google for those illegal downloads, don’t be a pirate!

It might help if Ms. Kaye spoke to someone who could explain to her that Google is not the liable party here — and the FTC isn’t going to suddenly make Google liable just because Ms. Kaye is confused about how the internet works. But, then again, she might just accuse anyone who tries to help her of being a “thief.” Clearly, Ms. Kaye is angry about some of her content being available in an unauthorized manner online, and seems uninterested in actually understanding how the content got there or what she can legitimately do in response. It’s really too bad.

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Comments on “Confused Musician Threatens Google, Blog Because Her Works Are Found Elsewhere On The Internet”

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79 Comments
Marcus Carab (profile) says:

These stories are so sad… someone clearly sat this women down and said “did you know people are downloading your music?” and then spat some buzzwords: TORRENTS! FILESHARING! P2P! GOOGLE! STEALING!

Now she has crippling tunnel-vision. Many people would have shared her kneejerk reaction, but most wouldn’t have dragged it out into such an extended campaign of stubborn misunderstanding. Whoever got her all up in arms over this did her a huge disservice.

Richard (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Now she has crippling tunnel-vision. Many people would have shared her kneejerk reaction, but most wouldn’t have dragged it out into such an extended campaign of stubborn misunderstanding. Whoever got her all up in arms over this did her a huge disservice.

Yes, once again we see that the real victims of copyright (and patent) law are exactly the people who are supposed to benefit from it. It is really sad to see someone get so worked up like this.

Copyright law should be treated like cigarettes:

WARNING BEING RIGHTSHOLDER MAY DAMAGE YOUR MENTAL HEALTH.

Anonymous Poster says:

I sent her (and her “team”) a couple of polite e-mails about this issue, trying to point out why they were being called out on this.

They called the e-mails “harassment” and said they were getting the BBB in on this, too.

I don’t think Ms. Kaye or anyone associated with her has any idea how the Internet works.

Josh in CharlotteNC (profile) says:

Reminds me of

That email reminds me of that town mayor (councilman maybe?) a few years ago that went ballistic on the makers of a Linux distro cause his server wasn’t configured and he got the standard error message built into the distro. He starting sending emails to the claiming they were hackers and thieves, and wouldn’t quit when they tried to refer him to his hosting company to get the thing fixed.

Searched, but couldn’t find the story.

Hephaestus (profile) says:

“I’m reminded of a rather angry Hollywood lawyer who has blogged repeatedly bizarre (and totally false) claims about me — saying that I (seriously) command an army of hackers who will vehemently attack any musician or songwriter who dares to disagree with me. “

Mike you views are wrong about some IP stuff, but you are consistant, and consistantly correct on most of the issues. Your army isnt a bunch of hackers. Its like minded individuals that just hate really stupid, self serving people. When they are pointed out they tend to get shown the error of their ways (hazed).

Dark Helmet (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

“Actually, I think his fans are just people who remember stuff they learned in Econ 101.”

Is their only crime curiousity? If not, can we stop referring to shadowy hacker groups as the source of all our problems? Hearing some talk, if we could just get rid of terrorists and hackers, the world would be all honey and flowers for everyone….

Emo the Libertarian (profile) says:

Commander Mike, when do you order the attack…LOL

Seriously for a second: while I agree almost anyside of a debate has reactionaries and downright crazies, I really wish we could find away to keep them out of the light (on both sides) it would go along way in bringing together bothsides to make a “deal” both can live with.

The mis-guided idiots always get heard loudest (thanks for thier headline grabbing ability, and the fact we all click, or read for the humor content) but what they really do is entrench both sides from working together to solve a problem (you see it in the US Congress R’s V.s. D’s, and on every single big issue, patent, copyright, trademark, you name it)

Emo the Libertarian (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Can’t really say I agree.

Yes, Company’s have a profit motive, of course so do people, but that doesn’t push them against the Constititution.

Just like people like the think everything is a Right, but do not know the Constitution beyond yelling out what ever THEY want is a “protected” Right.

The Constitution worked well for a long time in a free market society, and Companies had a need for Quarterly Profits then too…

Hephaestus (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

“Yes, Company’s have a profit motive, of course so do people, but that doesn’t push them against the Constititution.”

It is not a direct push against the constitution but a lack of understanding of what these little errosions of civil liberties all add up to. Slowly but surely they pile on top of one another. Eventually allowing for things like your ISP spying on everything that you send or recieve on the internet. That spying being done on behalf on a non government entity with out a warrant. Being able to be cut you off from essential services based on accusations and no due process.

“Just like people like the think everything is a Right, but do not know the Constitution beyond yelling out what ever THEY want is a “protected” Right.”

People want their rights. They also want to not be burdened by entrenced monopolies that have the money to buy “protected” rights.

“The Constitution worked well for a long time in a free market society, and Companies had a need for Quarterly Profits then too…”

The Constitution did work and still does, the problem is now things are accelerated Faster travel, Faster communications, faster mail (e-mail), laws getting passed faster. In the past this abuse of power existed. In the past the courts worked at roughly the same rate that unconstitutional changes were made. Now the changes are happening faster because our ability to communicate has accelerated. The courts cant keep up because they move at a glacial rate.

Emo the Libertarian (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

I agree that rights are being eroded at an accelerated rate (which in and of its self is cause for alarm) But I do not think that the “companies” deserve all of the blame, I lay that at the feet of the “polititians”/government in that they are
1) creating the laws
2) allowing the monopolies
3) pushing the agenda of the lobbyist, which are set in place by some companies,and special interest groups

I view the Courts, the Legislative, and Executive Branchs as the ultimate betrayers here because each and everyone took an oath to Uphold/Defend the Constitution not figure out ways around it, or put in more controls on what was supposed to be a free market… if they where doing their jobs the “company” mind set (Record Labels as a great example, and the Artist as well) would not be what it is today (entitlement and protectionist)… They became what they where taught by action or inaction of the government.

And i have to say we the People get to share a portion of the blame as well, we allowed them to keep doing the same things and find more ways around rights, and teaching kids to be “entitled” to things… then the wheels came off and bang now everyone is mad… We should have forced this issue in the 80’s and 90s we would be less indebt and they would have much less power than now.

Think about this when they banned drinking in the US, it took a Constitutional Ammendment (because the Government rightly believed that they did not have the power to ban anything with out Ammending and the consent of the States) but after that was squashed and depression hit they banned things left/right/and center, no Ammendments to the Constitution needed…

Chronno S. Trigger (profile) says:

“Please do not download any of my books/CDs from Google.”

Sure, I can do that (or not do that). I have no idea who Carol Kaye is so I probably won’t download anything of her’s from any of the sites that actually share things.

Can I borrow the army for a few days. I want to attempt to teach Microsoft that they don’t need half the crap that comes pre-installed in windows. Seriously, there are probably more security updates for Outlook Express then users of OE. (where’s my SarcMark?)

Bengie says:

WTB Darwin award

We can only hope she is removed from the gene pool. Too bad our current society even tries to protect people from themselves.

Is she that person who caused high-chair makers put on a warning to “Remove Child before folding”?

I think the best movie quote for her is “How long did you pee on the toilet before someone told you to lift the seat”

Bugsy (user link) says:

Except...

Interesting how the article does not spend much time on the real issue: that her music is being pirated, and pirated from torrent based, pier sharing sites, etc. She is completely wrong in the direction of her anger but she is righteously angry. Her rants will fall on deaf ears because she has blamed the wrong people and she is apparently not that bright. But she is right on a much grander level. Her ignorance turns into an excuse to divert attention from the indisputable issue that is at the core of all these discussions, writers and performers are being ripped off.

deadzone (profile) says:

Re: Except...

Righteously angry but still woefully stupid and ignorant. The sad thing is: you missed the part in which they talk about how the falsely accused site offered to help her out only to receive an unhinged E-Mail back from her.

In short, it’s really not their problem or this site’s problem, so why should they do anything outside of report what is happening?

rjk (profile) says:

Re: Except...

Her ignorance turns into an excuse to divert attention from the indisputable issue that is at the core of all these discussions, writers and performers are being ripped off.

I have a choice to make… I can legitimately purchase a $1 piece of plastic for $13 or I can download pirated music for $0. If I download pirated digital files, I’m a thief. If I pay $13 for a $1 piece of plastic the Artist is a thief.

Until I can purchase a digital album (high quality format) for $2.50 or a CD for $5-7 writers and performers can keep their mouth shut.

DocMenach (profile) says:

Re: Except...

Interesting how the article does not spend much time on the real issue: that her music is being pirated, and pirated from torrent based, pier sharing sites, etc…..

Did you say “pier sharing sites”. I want a pier sharing site. My town only has one pier, and I get tired of fishing off the same pier all the time.

Dom S (profile) says:

Re: Except...

“Her ignorance turns into an excuse to divert attention from the indisputable issue that is at the core of all these discussions, writers and performers are being ripped off.”

valid point, but i think YOU ignore the fact that most artists are inherently ripped off by the labels they sign to and most other mainstream distributors are constantly screwing artists.
the RECORDING industry does exactly that, record musicians work. they dont create the music, they dont write the music (mostly, although pop-puppets are the exception – i.e. manufactured boy/girlbands etc) and therefore they dont have the inherent right to the majority of the profits from the music they RECORD (although they have set their business model up in this way).
if they (i.e. the recording industry) want to sit around and complain about piracy and how its “killing the music industry”, let them. the rest of us will watch as they crash and burn and enjoy our non-mainstream entertainment, recorded and produced by truly talented individuals/groups who will flourish when they dont have to compete with the monopolistic labels who pollute the industry.

the “real” issue is not at dispute here. the article is highlighting how this woman is clearly wrong and misguided in her efforts to sue/threaten google etc. the article is not skipping over the piracy element, just pointing out how moronic this woman is being.

Rose M. Welch (profile) says:

Re: Except...

“…her music is being pirated…writers and performers are being ripped off.”

It’s possible that she owns the rights to her music, but most writers and performers whose works are being shared do not. So, you should amend your statement to the following:

…the record label’s music is being pirated…the record label is being ripped off.”.

Richard (profile) says:

Re: Except...

But she is right on a much grander level. Her ignorance turns into an excuse to divert attention from the indisputable issue that is at the core of all these discussions, writers and performers are being ripped off.

There is the real problem.

They THINK they are being ripped off. Whether (objectively) they are or not is not relevant.

If you go around thinking you are being ripped off you will end up in a sorry state.

If you free your output you will also free yourself.

Redwulf (profile) says:

Wow...

Apparently, this old lady never heard of a band called Metallica…and how efficiently and effectively they discharged a large-caliber round through their collective foot. Interestingly, I’d never heard of this woman, so publicity has been effectively generated. Unfortunately (for her) it is very negative, and guarantees that I will never explore any of her works at any time. I certainly won’t be giving her any money.

It’s called ‘greed’ old lady. Some call it ‘killing the golden goose’. I’d say that any washed-up old singer would be tickled pink and purple to have their songs pirated. It would at least be getting them some attention, perhaps even connecting with a new generation. Supporting it or laughing it off would definitely go a long way to help this. Railing against it? Well, you’re about to find out what that’ll do.

Say ‘hi’ to Lars when you go for your next unemployment check?

violetleigh (profile) says:

Re: Wow...

Thanks, Redwulf, for your interesting input. I will say, though, that singers are generally the ones ripped off by old musicians (that is what she is, NOT a singer, but a sideman or sidewoman).

She used cuts I paid for on her recording promoting herself and when I had the cojones to call her on her use of the tracks and making money and not properly compensating me for her worldwide complicity to distribute, she then labeled me as a so-so singer. The tracks and the voice speak for themselves, however, she is in a position to viciously and without impunity, denigrate any artist who calls her on her piracy.

She is old and will die soon and that is a good thing. This is not a rant but just a comment upon what transpired in dealings with this old bag.

Flakey says:

Stealing her music

Oh please, it’s folk like this that gives any sort of credence to the idea that you should be licensed to surf the internet.

Mrs. Kaye will not have to worry about me downloading her music for free but then she won’t have to worry about me buying it either. I don’t download music. Nor would I support artists so worried about aged material from 40 years ago being of the same value that present day rates bring for the hot items.

No doubt her label or publisher has told her she doesn’t make as much on royalties as she used to. Instead of telling her it is aged material and not worth as much, they have probably sent her on a snipe hunt of it’s those pirates on the interpipes stealing to get her out of their hair.

Smack Down says:

Slap...

Some of these buzz-word spewing cronnies seem to have P2P version of Tourette syndrome.

Cronnie: “Hi, I’m Bob… P2P!”

Song writer: “What?”

Cronnie: “Oh, I was just saying that… GOOGLE DOWNLOAD ILLEGAL TORRENT!!!”

Song writer: “What’s that about Google?”

Cronnie: “P2P! ILLEGAL! TORRENT! TORRENT! DOWNLOAD! GOOGLE! FISHHEAD!”

Song writer: “Google is doing something illegal?”

Cronnie: “Well, I was trying to say… TORRENT! P2P! BIT TORRENT! GOOGLE! ILLEGAL!”

Song writer: “Oh my… that sounds serious… I should um…”

Cronnie: “TORRENT! TORRENT! DOWNLOAD ILLEGAL! FREAK!”

Song writer: “Maybe… call the FTC?”

Cronnie: (Nodding) “TORRENT! ILLEGAL DOWNLOAD! P2P! UNAUTHORIZED!”

Song writer: “Let me look up the number… do you know how to connect to the internet on my computer?”

@KSL (user link) says:

Education man

This would be less sad, if it were a single incident but its so clear that the “have” and “have no freakin clue (*hnfc*)” gap is pretty steep and getting steeper. Mix a little social media into the picture and it gets even more “magic-mo-jo” scary for the “hnfc” class.

We need refrain from judging and reach out to teach people about the “new world” – information sharing, collaborative success, etc. set the example. Keep doing the right thing for the right reasons and it will all work out – they just don’t know (yet) how much better it is here.

joseph says:

what we're here for....CAROL KAYE

I HAVE BEEN AROUND MUSIC MOST OF MY LIFE, I HAVE SPOKEN TO ALOT OF ARTISTS AND RECORD CO. PEOPLE..AS YOU ALL KNOW, PEOPLE WILL TRY AND STEAL YOUR GOOD NAME…I BELIEVE THAT CAROL IS ONLY WATCHING OUT FOR HER INVESTMENT SO TO SPEAK, THAT HAS TAKEN MOST OF HER LIFE OF CONTRIBUTION…THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, SHE DID RECORD FOR MOTOWN…SHE WAS ALWAYS READY FOR WORK…DOCUMENTS PROOVE THAT MR. JAMESON,GOD REST HIS SOUL,WAS A PROBLEM AT THE STUDIO’S. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT MOTOWN, because of MR.JAMESON’S DEATH,did in fact change everything around to make it look like he had played on said records…..hey, if the U.S goverment can do cover up’s…so can’t motown..they’re a very powerful country in themselves… REMEMBER…MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE WRITING THEY’RE COMMENTS,including my-self, WERE NOT THERE AT SAID SESSIONS,NOR DO WE HAVE ACCESS TO UNION CONTRACTS…

violetleigh (profile) says:

Carol Kaye

She is deluded into thinking that she actually played on Jamerson’s recordings. She also has no problem promoting herself on tracks that she didn’t pay for and when called on it, denigrates the artist. Yes, she does. I hope this old hag dies and goes away soon! It would be a blessing to the music business and innocent bystanders whose lives have been affected by this heiffer.

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