… “And Harm To [antiquated, inferior, low budget, and generally minimal comparative value] Scientific Research” Why people defend these money sink projects here on earth, is beyond me. You can launch a satellite and do the same research, in better conditions for research, for a fraction of the cost of the majority of terrestrial stations. These land projects are under funded, over costly, half abandoned. Produce little of value today. And are generally ignored.
I’ll skip the “you guys” ‘not me’ crap. You’re clearly an a or b type. Either ignoring that there are more than two parties. Or so self righteous to believe only your beliefs matter. Myself, I look at history. And causation rates. Nobody has yet pointed out anything that trump did as president that was actually against the law. That lest we forget opinion list? Is filled with a whole lot of conjecture and “my feelings”. Not actual damage. The vast majority of the complaints against him are things he didn’t do. 99% of the ‘bad orange man’ crap is wah my bum. Here’s the problem I have: what did he do that hurt you? Why is it so many of the posters here can’t answer that? You deflect the question into this group or that. And always what he didn’t do. Not what he did. Feel free to answer. Once one of you do, we can then discuss that issue. The only thing anyone has come up with so far was the document stash. A) the (former) president says they were declassified while he was in office. There is no evidence to the contrary. B) over the time from his exit to the barely legal ease, Multiple offers were made to multiple agencies to review them C) most, that is nearly all, we’re in secured and locked locations. Protected by private security and property employ But there is good in this. Revenge reviews are showing the system, not an individual, is flawed. Now there are congressional reviews of the situation. Finally, in all the post-Nixon time, we may actually get some methods put to ink. Much like Biden’s stupidity on the oil pipeline and the border have created hearings! Sometimes a politician, at any level, needs to be forced to face what they say. The consequence of action and inaction! Document classification systems need a paper trail Those who claimed open flow at the border was good, were forced to face their sanctuary policy head in. How fast they changed their stance when the people were actually there. Hey, they said. come, be welcomed. Here we ignore the law. The list of post trump stupidity is fact. Why is it so hard to show trump issues? Show actual evidence of trump as president breaking the law? Or, easier, where he did something that directly hurt you?
Private company. Don’t like it? Do elsewhere.
Breaking news: most people don’t care! I won’t go as far as Hyman Rosen: I respect your right to be paranoid. As long as you don’t force your paranoia on me (see bans on targeted advertising). But ultimately 350-some million people and the number who actually care about digital tracking is, uh? Does it even make 1%?
Looks like someone said something more recently about this. There’s a whole bunch of 2022/23 crap about it now. I’m going off my memory and will get back with a link when I find one older than 22. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2022/02/20/bush-obama-trump-all-use-presidential-record-act-hide-history/ Covers some of it https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/obama-center/ct-met-obama-archives-20171004-story.html There’s a lot of political fudge nonsense right now. Best I can remember the documents showed up to be stored in a storage unit. The library wasn’t built. He told the NA something along the lines of’ sorry, busy’ for a LONG time. Eventually he spent a fortune to have them digitally converted. Again, I didn’t care about the files. I was focused on digging up a memorial park to create yet another modern eyesore that few would utilise. Much like I don’t care about the Trump files or the Biden files. My commentary here is double standard. A military style raid on a former president to recover generally secured documents that have been declared declassified… vs ignoring the lack of security at a generic storage unit holding documents admitted to being classified up front. Nobody who looks at this objectively comes always with anything other than political showmanship. Every president has kept document troves. Every one of those has included “classified” documents. And every One has made commentary at some point about ‘oh, declassified’. Apparently someone in the trump camp, or he himself, commented on Obama’s horde last year and that has well buried the local coverage of the time. Best I recall it was “thousands” not 30 million (the total of files) that were believed classified. I have zero doubt after the political pomp of courts and suits is done Trump will walk away the same as every other president; clean of wrong doing under the law. And when the pointless showmanship of the failed Dem elites is over, maybe the rest of congress will finally do something about 40 years of this crap. This is nothing more than chest thumping by senior citizens desperate to maintain their power. The majority of America doesn’t actually care. The surveys and polls make that clear. Much like marriage (finally), abortion, and other national issues; fix the problem. What benefit is there to to waste more tax money on an another show investigation when the outcome is clear in law.
Hand it to the. Tell them to pay what they feel it’s worth. Free software makes tens of billions in the US alone: every year. If it’s any good; they will oay
Proof needed, I believeOne doesn’t not need price a negative. There is no restriction or regulation on presidential power of classification.
Indeed, nobody else has to be raided because they refused to return documents they were known to have without permission.Correct. Nobody eased Obama or W properties to recover “classified” documents. In both cases the former president claimed they were not classified. In both cases the archive declared them “sensitive”. The more appropriate question here has nothing to do with classification status. As there is no requirement a president make notification of any type in his declassification. The question is if the former president has a right to such documents in personal archive, (eg presidential library, closet, etc) or if they belong to the people. I could be wrong, but I believe Obama stonewalled for over 12 months before giving the archive access. The final question here is who has right of holding on items of presidential creation. Something not set that has concerned the last 7 presidents, and their libraries. Step away from Trump for a moment. There’s a larger issue here. 40-some years of unanswered questions.
Show the evidence that Trump followed the rules…Ultimately the issue is there are No rules. None; beyond what the president chooses. “I declassified them” is perfectly legal. A quick google search with president’s names will show this has been a recurring issue for a very long time; Granted at a much lower scale. Obama had hundreds of documents. Many still not returned. W Bush made post facto claims as did bill Clinton. Again Carter’s issues may be a bit buried but are well documented. Nixon and Johnson both were quite, “irresponsible”. Kennedy share documents randomly with women. The only reason there is any kind of discussion here is because a politicised FBI decided to make an unreasonable and unprecedented raid on a former president. And That former president is one of the most divisive in two generations. While trump will almost certainly walk away from this clean, we may finally get some oversight on classification. The one place we will agree is “I declassified them” should not be how it works. Then again, we classify WAY too much. Trump, officially and unofficially, declassified more documents than any in recent history. The fights over the Kennedy documents, the UFO files, the special research portfolio… A lot of the alphabet hatred for him comes from such releases. Releases I support. So… you are correct in thought that I have little care who has access as long as the public eventually gets access as well. Like it or not, when the dust settles here; trump says they were declassified and that is what will stand. They will be scanned by the archives and eventually the public will read them. That is far more important than which allies(or should-be allies) he shared them with. In my opinion.
reality check. No. Again, Carter was notorious . Handing stuff out and then saying, later, ‘oh, declassified’ etc. some times stating as such after his presidency. You’re blinded by the who. That’s all the more there is here with you people who hate him. No, congress will not and can not make a law that makes requirements on presidential powers. What they can do, and probably will her given how many presidents have been caught with classified documents of late, is create a notification process. That’s how the balance of powers work. Indefensible? I stick to fact. Actual fact. What you think the intent is is not fact, it’s conjecture. I again find it interesting how quickly you forget the Obama library issues. He, too, stonewalled access until the archive gave up and gave in; agreeing to an on-site review. You won’t find a single complaint about that situation from me. My only post-presidential complaint was the location of the library. Btw, the archives didn’t get his documents either.
Some of us care about the law the way it is. And seeing proper changes to errors. You are yet another guided by blind hatred. There is an opportunity here to fix a major flaw in our system. You are too indulged in your own mind to see that.
You are correct. And you made my point. That is, in its entirety, what we have here. Congress needs to set notification systems in place. (Btw I Did mention the idea of a president pardoning themselves, in relation to Biden).
has been done historicallyGenerally… been done. Carter and Johnson both had a bad habit of randomly declassifying on a whim. Oh, and precedent isn’t law. As for the DOE, sorry, you’re flat out wrong. The president can override them at will.
There where hundreds of folders found in a non-secure storageNo, there were hundreds found in locked closets or other offices out of standard public access. There were a few dozen found loose with mixed papers and magazines.
Funny how one can “declassify” documents after the fact.There’s no law or restriction that requires a president notify anyone. Not make any change on the documents themselves.
Did you miss the whole debacle with the Japanese and the North Korean missiles that all the guests witnessed?Yes, he’s no longer in office so he’s of minimal interest to me now.
Not when I have guaranteed to the government that the boxes would be stored in a designated secure storage that only authorized people had access to.Well, if they are declassified, he can authorise anyone.
but that doesn’t apply to ex-presidentsYou have shown no more proof than the others’ reports that he is lying.
Feel free to point out when President Trump did this while documenting and informing others that he did soThere is no restrictions on when, what, and how a president can declassify. Not is there any requirement to make any Notification, including changing the document stamps.
you have no evidence of illegal activity. Just conjecture. Only shared by a single party. No law was broken here. And in the alternative, no proof of such a break exists. Because no one back then couldn’t even in their darkest nightmares imagine how fucking low the Republicans would sink having a president lying on a daily basisI suggest you read up on the absolute disaster that was the Carter administration. And the point here is, every president held classified documents post office. You forget the whole mess about the Obama library and him forcing the review take place under his watch. Neither Bush was very cooperative and we won’t get into the Clinton family. This isn’t some extreme, other than a politicised law organisation trying yet another gotcha for their money masters. They failed. Now evidence of a crime here. But based on the only evidence in existence, the statement of a former president, trump has No classified information and Biden did.
in an unlocked storage accessible by hundreds of Mar-a-Lago members and guestsmost of what was found/stolen/“recovered” was in locked rooms. Far from any guest. That a few folders wound up elsewhere is no different than Biden loosing a “few”
where top secret information was discussed in the open for anyone to hearif he declassified the material, it’s not too secret
where documents was flaunted in front of guest in an effort to brag,Link?
played a shell-game with the documents to hideMoving items is hardly shell games. Going to tell me you never moved a box from one location to another?
In the other case we have someone who isn't insane enough to say that just thinking "de-classify" de-classifies top secret documentshttps://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/ Where you will find also, agreement to what I have said before: the president isn’t beholden to former president’s executive orders.
because laws'n'shit doesn't actually matter when the God-king has spokenFeel free to point to any law that says the president can not unilaterally and without documentation, declassify whatever he wants.
Well, Biden is president now so he can de-classify these documents and there is no problem, right?He can. But they were classified when found. Granted he could potentially pardon himself pre facto. And I doubt if impeached and removed, he wouldn’t be pardoned there. But no, a vice president can not declassify documents, making his retention illegal. Trump will have to face a review. One where the rights of a President will be determined. If you think anyone is going to step on Trump over this, you’re a bloody fool. The most likely outcome here is congress placing notification requirements and a timely range on the process. Something that should have been done following Nixon.
That aspect of the issue is bound to be tested in the near future. But without precedent, the outcome is unknown. Again, there is no binding requirement for notification or documentation.
Yes, quite. It’s a situation in need of a law. The activity is a deep invasion of privacy.
The statement is correct. The president has sole authority and need not consult others.
In one case you have a vice president with no control over classification, keeping documents in a private residence garage. Easily accessible to any prowler or burglar. In the other you have a former president who says he declassified documents. Who kept them stores in a location with both unarmed and armed security.
There is no right to happiness! Only the pursuit. This is a trampling of free speech! Nothing is more important in this country than the ability of free expression.
And that’s bed if regulated… why? Have you seen any sci-fi? Star Wars, Super Mario Brothers, Blade Runner, Heavy Metal? They look fine to me.