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LAPD Officers Faked Reports, Added Innocent People To Its Gang Database

from the passive-income-is-the-best-income dept

Sure, gang databases seem like a good idea. Intel on known criminals is important and can help law enforcement keep tabs on the most problematic people in their patrol areas.

Like many things that are great in theory, gang databases are awful in practice. The criteria for being "nominated" is vague and the people doing the nominating -- police officers -- aren't detail-oriented or too worried about tossing innocent people into the virtual clink.

In Chicago, this has led to 15,000 people being (permanently!) listed in the PD's gang database despite there being no gang affiliation named and no reason given for the person's addition to the database. In Boston, wearing certain clothing items (like Nike shoes) or being assaulted by a gang member is enough to get a person added to the PD's gang database.

The databases are so ridiculously inclusive cops have found themselves listed as gang members. One cop became a "gang member" simply because his family car was spotted on the same street as two motorcyclists wearing supposed gang t-shirts.

Given this history of lousy gang databases run by people who display an almost-sociopathic desire to punish innocent people, it comes as no surprise the database the LAPD uses sucks just as hard.

More than a dozen Los Angeles police officers with the elite Metro Division are being investigated on suspicion of falsifying information they gathered during stops and wrongly portraying people as gang members or associates, according to multiple sources.

The officers, assigned to special patrols in South Los Angeles, are suspected of falsifying field interview cards during stops and inputting incorrect information about those questioned in an effort to boost stop statistics.

Just a little standard police misconduct with bonus lifetime repercussions for those falsely added to CalGang, the LAPD's gang database.

In these cases, body camera recordings undercut police reports and narratives, resulting in the removal of "some" officers from active duty. This is good news because it means someone's looking at recordings for something other than footage that might assist prosecutors.

The bad news is everything else. Cops don't do this sort of thing unless they feel comfortable doing it. The snowball effect of lax oversight and toothless discipline long ago reached terminal velocity. Cops falsifying reports and padding stop stats even though they know their actions are being recorded makes it clear the LAPD's accountability efforts have had almost no deterrent effect.

Then there's the database innocent people are being fed into. There are currently 90,000 people in the LAPD's gang database. The database did not implement removal procedures until 2017, 20 years after its debut. The LAPD, which shares this database with seven other law enforcement agencies, did not remove a single person in 2018.

The LAPD handles its nomination process just as cavalierly as the departments in Chicago and Boston. Cops added Larry Sanders, a gang interventionist, to CalGang after hassling him and few other people in a park, demanding they lift their shirts and show officers their tattoos. (The officers claimed they were answering a call about public drinking, but the people drinking in public were never approached by the officers.) Sanders, who has lived in the area his entire life, has never been arrested or a member of a gang.

Another man, Brian Allen, was added to the database just because he lives in an area where gang activity is prevalent. Allen was told he was added for "associating with gang members," which is vague enough to encompass simply making small talk with anyone in his neighborhood.

This latest news is more of the same: people being added to the gang database because they're minorities and because cops can nominate anyone they want to without really having to worry about being held responsible for their actions.

Meanwhile, the "removal from active duty" suggests suspension or desk work, rather than termination, which makes this statement by LAPD Chief Michel Moore especially ridiculous:

“An officer’s integrity must be absolute. There is no place in the Department for any individual who would purposely falsify information on a Department report,” Moore said in a statement.

Great, but these officers are still "in the Department." Maybe that will change once the investigations have concluded, but termination seems unlikely. There will be a place in the LAPD for these officers once the news cycle ends and their union has applied pressure. And, if the LAPD can actually get rid of them, they'll just end up violating citizens' rights at some other law enforcement agency.

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Filed Under: faked reports, gang database, lapd


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  • icon
    Samuel Abram (profile), 15 Jan 2020 @ 1:33pm

    "The List"

    Surely authorities putting anybody on a prohibitive list had no unintentional side effects…

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2020 @ 3:01pm

      Re: "The List"

      But it has the intended side effect of justifying the use of a swat team to serve a warrant about traffic offences.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 16 Jan 2020 @ 12:39am

      Re: "The List"

      Registries and lists describing how suspicious a given person is without a legal conviction backing that judgment are too easily used by vested interests in persecuting whatever minority is the hate flavor of the month.

      It's one thing if a police team has a spreadsheet detailing the ins and outs of the organized crime scene but a completely different kettle of fish if what an individual policeman claims is a suspect suddenly becomes a second-class citizen based entirely on the judgment of that one officer.

      Because heaven forfend any of the officers involved had personal grievances visavi certain people and decided turning those people into harass-on-sight targets was a delicious act of petty revenge.

      "In Chicago, this has led to 15,000 people being (permanently!) listed in the PD's gang database despite there being no gang affiliation named and no reason given for the person's addition to the database."

      So...15000 people now have their picture in a database with a "VIOLENT GANG MEMBER" next to it, without there being any reason? I'm suspecting that Being Brown In Public and Having The Wrong Name figures largely in that result. Apparently it took no time at all for those lists to become the police version of revenge porn.

      I seem to recall that this way of doing things was soundly condemned some ten years ago because the nazis, the soviet union and the DDR were still shining examples of why this sort of thing was a shit idea in a free country...

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Keep the Fifth, 11 Mar 2020 @ 8:08am

        Re: Re: "The List"

        Excellent thought out comment. Did you know that most all heads of departments of government agencies have annual national conventions and that is where all these dirty plays are shared and why it is turning bad so fast everywhere. Years ago I was a whistle blower and was contacted by someone who told me that at the National Mayors Convention that they had unannounced, unlisted sessions on how to silence whistle blowers or problem citizens who created perhaps knew more than they wanted the rest of the community to know?
        Tactics, accusing the of crimes, setting up a scenario, using a statute or ordinance, which are not laws by the way, and prosecuting them, character assignations done all the time. Targeted people are in high numbers now and I have been since, and been a victim in a new city with the same old tactics, and now am 77 years old. They can ruin your life, and they communicate between departments in different cities and states. I fled to Florida where the Sheriff would not respond appropriately and flagged my rental as mentally ill, and thus wiped off prints of a sharp long paring knife and flashlight I found in my home one morning and carefully put in plastic bags. I have been a professional investigator with gvmt and registered nurse and know how to not touch evidence and preserve it and written many reports, never discredited, but they have done a smear on my history and recruit family members. It is getting pretty mean out there for people from all walks of life and backgrounds. There is no privacy and one is a victim over and over. So much lost and no privacy.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 15 Jan 2020 @ 2:06pm

    'We need that kind of scum on the streets, not behind a desk'

    “An officer’s integrity must be absolute. There is no place in the Department for any individual who would purposely falsify information on a Department report,” Moore said in a statement.

    Which I can only assume is to say that they don't want them in the precinct filing paperwork, they want them out on the streets, because it sure as hell doesn't mean they don't want to keep them employed as cops given there would be a lot less cops employed in that department alone were that the case.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Another Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2020 @ 2:53pm

    Narf.

    Maybe that will change once the investigations have concluded, but termination seems unlikely.

    Police union.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2020 @ 4:44pm

    Is this gang database anything like fantasy football?
    Each member could have their individual characteristics rated on a scale with predictions made as to whether said gang member will be X% successful in their gang related activities. LEOs could build their own fantasy gang and have turf wars online, it will be friggin awesome!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 16 Jan 2020 @ 12:42am

      Re:

      "Each member could have their individual characteristics rated on a scale with predictions made as to whether said gang member will be X% successful in their gang related activities."

      Except that in the selection of hardass gangstas you've got to assemble your team with in that game, 15000 appear to be ordinary working joes who'll be completely shit at drive-by's, drug-dealing and extortion.

      It'd be as if EA's latest NFL game had 15000 hidden paraplegics in the roster which you'd only notice after the game started...

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2020 @ 5:10pm

    fnord

    Turns out there have been no actual gangs in the US for 50 years, they were just made up by cops.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Norahc (profile), 15 Jan 2020 @ 5:34pm

    One cop became a "gang member" simply because his family car was spotted on the same street as two motorcyclists wearing supposed gang t-shirts.

    The most accurate list of gang members is the police department employee list.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Gary Webb More, 16 Jan 2020 @ 12:11am

    re: the elite Metro Division

    Intelligence-driven elite units are destroying peoples lives in other ways too, by waging weaponized investigations against those they target in the streets, and their methods are heinous, often deploying military derived “psychological operations ” on individuals who get in their way.

    These units dont merely share their databases, they share lots of cop gossip and outright slander too, all across the country, in a process called “gang stalking.”

    I first encountered LAPD spies five states away from LA and my last encounters with them were predicated by an encounter with one of Metros informants, a guy named Tracy, who opened his dialogue by yammering about how, “those LA Metro boys wont let me sleep. They are zapping me with electronic weapons! !”

    Such is the coded language of this form of intel driven community policing.

    Any journalist who covers this topic could easily validate this on the ground, by visiting the LA downtown library and making conversation with the homeless who flood that area.

    Its a problem that is rampant, unchecked, and primarily targets low status persons with potential credibility problems, and who dont have the resources to sue for their rights, because its just too easy to collaborate than it is to fight this hidden investigative tactic, aka high policing, which is itself a political tool of repression.

    The problem, however, is that unlike document driven journalism, verifying such material requires first person interviews, wherein the journalist then becomes a target of intel black ops, and other poluce harassments. Its a conundrum.

    That Gary Webb Award for Excellence in Gang Stalking Journalism is still valid, tho ....

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 16 Jan 2020 @ 12:53am

      Re:

      "These units dont merely share their databases, they share lots of cop gossip and outright slander too, all across the country, in a process called “gang stalking.”"

      That's a conspiracy theory with no backing. The ugly truth is that if you have a database of "gangs" where any person can end up with if ANY police officer makes an entry, and that database is shared across departments then you don't need any form of organized effort or thought for it to result in what appears to be a nationwide harassment effort.

      Hanlon's razor provides this exact result given nothing more than a few inept idiots with inflated ideas about the infallibility of law enforcement in politics/command, and a bunch of lazy cops who want to be able to just pick their suspects out of a shared excel spreadsheet.

      Then add a frighteningly large amount of bigoted goons and thugs wearing blue who put names in that list at random or going by skin color and you end up with what looks like a statewide persecution machine targeting a great many innocent individuals. Every time your car drives down a street the local cop will look at the plate and find it linked to "drug dealer" or "gang thug", after all.

      Now just have the DHS collect all those lists and the fuckery goes nationwide.

      You don't need active malice for a bureaucracy to churn out real evil. You just need ineptitude and the political idea that the only ones to complain would be suspicious pinko commie liberals who want criminals to walk the street, in order to decisively block any effort to uproot or fix the bugged system.

      TL;DR?

      It's a BAD idea to make nation-wide lists of suspects based entirely on what an individual officer may have thought about a given person. It's not rocket science.

      But I grant you this; It's a hard pill to swallow that what appears to be a coherent and persistent effort by government forces to oppress and stamp out all forms of individual integrity and liberty in the citizenry is nothing more than the end result of sheer ineptitude and political face-saving.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Gary Webb More, 16 Jan 2020 @ 12:32am

    re: the elite Metro Division

    Intelligence-driven elite units are destroying peoples lives in other ways too, by waging weaponized investigations against those they target in the streets, and their methods are heinous, often deploying military derived “psychological operations ” on individuals who get in their way.

    These units dont merely share their databases, they share lots of cop gossip and outright slander too, all across the country, in a process called “gang stalking.”

    I first encountered LAPD spies five states away from LA and my last encounters with them were predicated by an encounter with one of Metros informants, a guy named Tracy, who opened his dialogue by yammering about how, “those LA Metro boys wont let me sleep. They are zapping me with electronic weapons! !”

    Such is the coded language of this form of intel driven community policing.

    Any journalist who covers this topic could easily validate this on the ground, by visiting the LA downtown library and making conversation with the homeless who flood that area.

    Its a problem that is rampant, unchecked, and primarily targets low status persons with potential credibility problems, and who dont have the resources to sue for their rights, because its just too easy to collaborate than it is to fight this hidden investigative tactic, aka high policing, which is itself a political tool of repression.

    The problem, however, is that unlike document driven journalism, verifying such material requires first person interviews, wherein the journalist then becomes a target of intel black ops, and other poluce harassments. Its a conundrum.

    That Gary Webb Award for Excellence in Gang Stalking Journalism is still valid, tho ....

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2020 @ 2:51am

    With so many lists, databases and ways of abuse makes me wonder what lists I am on and why.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Chris-Mouse (profile), 16 Jan 2020 @ 5:39am

      Re:

      Given how often the lists are shared and merged, the answers are 'all of them' and 'we can't tell you due to national security'

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous, 16 Jan 2020 @ 11:02am

      Re:

      I recently bought an Instant Pot (aka pressure cooker) online for a gift so I'm probably on several. I recall a couple years ago reading about someone who had bought more than one as gifts when they were on sale and getting their order cancelled and a visit from government stooges

      I'd try to find the article but given I'm already on the Instant Pot terrorist watch list I should probably limit my googling topics like that.

      What' I find really funny though is that whenever I joke around about it with friends and family no matter where they are on the political spectrum totally accept it as a fact I am on a watch list

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        R/O/G/S...., 16 Jan 2020 @ 11:46am

        Re: Re:

        Well, the good news is that you have GREAT family, who know, and understand this generations ziofascism.

        They support you. Great!

        The bad news is, you are correct: you and others are DEFINITELY targeted individuals.

        Th US now rivals any police state, ever, for the honor of failure, by the definition of “what is a democracy. ”

        Hi, Father Sieg Heil! Hi, Rabb Dindoitz! Your guys hands are TOTALLY CLEAN!

        sound of five year old boy in a gay bar alley, mourning the assaults on his body that these pigskin toting #fakerape hoaxers perpetrate.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    R/O/G/S...., 16 Jan 2020 @ 10:52am

    re: no backing?

    SDM, you are just wrong. The backing for my claim /s are everywhere.

    So, you are either dishonest, outright lying, receive a check, or research impairedare for stating what you do (in your case, I will default to simply lazy, or genuinely unaware)

    Occasionally, you offer up hope, but always pop my bubble, by repeating discrediting narratives at the very top of your posts.

    If a conspiracy "theory ” is some crackpot idea about unproven claims, or whatever, well, you simply are being a useful idiot, by discounting the narrative of myself, and others who have experienced “organized gang stalking,” much less the recent Los Angeles Times piece about actual gangs in police department(s).

    I was on the verge of dismissing you entirely, as a religion tainted, sysadmin fan and dissent cock blocker from Sweden, and then you posted that. Some 90%of what you said is true -but headlined as some conspiracy theory, a great disservice to the actual and verifiable victims of this practice, some of whom I document at my blog,

    https://researchorganizedgangstalking.wordpress.com

    Interestingly, many modern police and intel affilliated PsyOps that interact within the OGS schema emanate from Sweden, most notoriously Dr.s Tomo Shibata, and Katherine Horton on this topic(I can back that claim, but honestly, unless a paycheck is involved.... )

    I interacted with you, and a few others here as far back as 2013, but then, I had little evidence, and zero support, so other MSM and I worked together to report it .

    Today, I have changed the narrative, with the help of others, like fightgangstalking(dot )com, and a few journalists in the MSM.

    Here below, is me, three years ago, as Food For Fodder, before I left the US, defending a cop who was being gang stalked because he was a whistle blower:

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161211/11153536248/bad-info-law-enforcement-database-turned-for mer-cop-into-suspected-gang-member.shtml

    Yes, I did fuck up that link in that article. Not all artists /writers /activists are web savvy (part of the problem of doing the shit work, is that sometimes, the boot polishing for mass consumption is not perfect.)

    But now, I ask and urge others to collect evidence, and it is working, partly because I had to do it first, and partly because evidence of police misconduct costs money.

    In re: Hanlons razor, while it is a convenient, dismissive trope, it does very little to validate the claims of those suborned to Occams Razor Gauntlet, or as one Countering Violent Extremism (CVE )private contractor was once on record stating “ We slice our victims throats with Ochams [sic ]Razor. ”

    And that shitbag, having now removed that quote, and link to his blog, wherein I quote it directly.

    So, that, and more, much more. Responsible framing of media narratives is imperative upon our fragile democracies, and you, blurbing conspiracy theory in your lede is not responsible at all.

    In that light, your ROGS baptism is a hard pill to swallow

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 17 Jan 2020 @ 1:43am

      Re: re: no backing?

      "If a conspiracy "theory ” is some crackpot idea about unproven claims, or whatever, well, you simply are being a useful idiot, by discounting the narrative of myself, and others who have experienced “organized gang stalking,” much less the recent Los Angeles Times piece about actual gangs in police department(s). "

      I'm afraid your narrative is, bluntly put, implausible and in many ways impossible, because in order to have everything which happens in the real world actually happen no conspiracies are needed. All it ever takes is ineptitude and bureaucratic stagnation. Most of what is today called a conspiracy is simply a small bunch of people making bad decisions and an entire bureaucracy then trying to cover up in order to save someone's face.

      We know for a fact by now that genuine conspiracies end up flat. Iran-Contras, Watergate, Abu ghraib were all dictionary-definition conspiracies as was the yellowcake hoax perpetrated by GWB's administration. They all end up busted wide open because there's always that one guy who leaks and starts telling the story, or is compelled to speak by congressional or court inquiry.

      "I was on the verge of dismissing you entirely, as a religion tainted, sysadmin fan and dissent cock blocker from Sweden..."

      Now see, that's part of your problem, right there. When challenged on your blind assertions all you've got is a packet of ad homs which informs everyone reading your comment that you are actively malicious. So you end up shouting in an echo chamber where what people take away with them is that your posts contain invective, anti-israel comments, and not much else.

      That you lie outright about your detractors probably doesn't help. "religion tainted" about someone who spends as much time dissing the imaginary invisible presumptive grandpa-in-the-sky as I do doesn't stick too well.
      Nor does "dissent cock-blocking" when I'm one of the more vociferous detractors of the current deplorable state of...well, the state.

      I'll cop to being a sysadmin fan simply because someone who administrates systems more or less HAS to do so based on how a system is built, or it collapses around him. Sysadmins can't do their work based on politics, wishful thinking, loose assumptions or "business considerations" because then you've got crashed servers on your hands.

      You don't strike me as someone capable of putting cause and effect in the proper order so I'm not too surprised that you've got a hate-boner for anyone who actually can.

      I'm not sure what you're even doing around here because it's pretty obvious the only thing you're after is ensuring that anyone with two brain cells to knock together is, at the end of the day, solidly convinced that you belong in the same category of maliciously inept troll we put old Baghdad Bob/Blue in.

      The only thing you've earned by now is that every post you make where you start out with some insult aimed at someone or other gets flagged and discarded. Go vent your anger in some forum where that approach is better appreciated. Stormfront perhaps, or Breitbart.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        R/O/G/S...., 17 Jan 2020 @ 11:14am

        Re: Re: re: no backing?

        Well, cause and effect have nearly nothing to do with so -called counter terrorism initiatives that suborn the libel (witty online banter ), slander, and actual perjury of sysadmins, but thats another topic entirely, be cause frequently, it is sysadmins,(in.the US they are FBI created Infragard ) that are totally complicit with CVE programs.

        Lets try to restart this, ok?

        You make excellent, somewhat effective points in many places, but seem to be a cockblock on issues that affect communities that you suborn to speak for, aka, communities of color, etc.

        And in so doing, you perform actual dis -service to those communities, by ignoring the vernacular that they speak, and concepts that they use every day.

        So, I suspect that you are lily white, which I use that phrase as both a pejorative, and as an educational dialectic device: lily white has distinct racial and religious connotations (another conversation ) but also, pejorative meaning dating back decades.

        So, can I show you something derived from activist culture?

        http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-diego/1881755-san-diego-hot-bed-gang-stalking.html

        I am not inferring that you are beyond hope, but I am saying directly that you might be a bit out of touch, and clearly enabling the exact racist, blahblah system.that you appear to speak against, because activists from EVERY ACTIVIST COMMUNITY are reporting on ORGANIZED gang stalking, and Mr. Cushing is too.

        But this *easily debunked /derisive /disinformative perspective of conspiracy theory is NOT what you claim it is -Hanlons Razor, slicing and dicing the crazies online, because in fact and in practice (and I consistently provide evidence ) it is what I,say it is: Counter Terror ”Professionals“ “slicing Ochams Throat” with a razor, and turning logic, and expedient explanations on its head.

        It IS military derived harrassment, targeted at individuals, and it is horrific.

        Now, to the substance of your post:
        Lets start at the ass end, and work our way inward towards the guts, like wolves wearing sheeps clothing arecsaid to do with carcasses they have killed.

        • “Stormfront perhaps, or Breitbart”- I suspect that this is itself, your own confession of loyalty. Whats your nym there?

        • blind assertions- You NEVER read the linked material. Not once, ever. I suspect lily white cockblocker parade

        • you lie outright - No, I do not, as tegards the,ACTUAL and empirically documented fact that organized gang stalking is a highly coordinated and well financed high.policing methodology, but lies(whatever those actually are ) aka demonstrative speech are -with qualified exceptions, too many to discuss here. But about you, I am certain you are lily white*and approaching dialectic space as if the average activist ever had such privileged education, to EVERY n know the difference.

        You certainly do not.

        Feel free to dispute that.

        (tired now )

        Best regards

        Espanta Pajaro

        p.s.I am not sure why YOU are around here either, other than that TD(and Masnick Et al ) is fairly white, and has a major blindspot about its own whiteness, and, regular commenters like you

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 20 Jan 2020 @ 1:38am

          Re: Re: Re: re: no backing?

          "You make excellent, somewhat effective points in many places, but seem to be a cockblock on issues that affect communities that you suborn to speak for, aka, communities of color, etc. "

          Because basically, those communities have no need to wreck their battle for the narrative by poisoning the well with hyperbole and speculation.

          Even if there was a vast worldwide judeo-christian conspiracy against alternative sexuality/gender identities more subversive than the actual pope standing up and saying the equivalent of "I think they suck", then the resources spent uncovering said conspiracy are wasted. It's enough to simply use the alexandrian solution and ensure that every politician standing for office realizes his votes depend entirely on whether he accepts equality or not.

          The common citizenry - also known as "we the sheeple" don't have the moral incentive, the intellect, or the effort to spare in following byzantine conspiracies. Gandhi and MLK were able to accomplish, in less than a lifetime, what thousands of reporters had tried to do before, just by boiling the message down into the lowest common denominator.

          Similarly if you want to bring down police brutality and law enforcement overreach you don't need anything other than the bluntly obvious facts to make the case.

          "And in so doing, you perform actual dis -service to those communities, by ignoring the vernacular that they speak, and concepts that they use every day."

          A fair amount of bull. Mind you, if the "vernacular they use every day" is centered around tinfoil triggers then it's no wonder they're getting nowhere. MLK toppled Jim Crow by simply turning "I have a dream" into a few multiple-million man marches.

          "I am not inferring that you are beyond hope, but I am saying directly that you might be a bit out of touch, and clearly enabling the exact racist, blahblah system.that you appear to speak against, because activists from EVERY ACTIVIST COMMUNITY are reporting on ORGANIZED gang stalking..."

          And it appears to be a decisively american phenomenon as well. I'm not seeing anything more than the common tribalism you lot have been putting up with since the Mayflower. It's not rocket science when what you have is a "nation" where it is by now assumed that every community needs to look out for itself you get the background where like-minded thugs spontaneously move in swarms.

          "...it is what I,say it is: Counter Terror ”Professionals“ “slicing Ochams Throat” with a razor, and turning logic, and expedient explanations on its head. "

          There's nothing new about shady intel agencies trying to control the narrative. Which makes it more important not to play the game of building layers of complexity beyond what is required. Once you go beyond "Police brutality is bad" and "city hall is corrupt" you've reduced yourself to being heard ONLY by a small fraction of like-minded individuals, most of whom are crackpots. The narrative is lost and your hypothetical conspiracy has won. Game, set, and match.

          "It IS military derived harrassment, targeted at individuals, and it is horrific. "

          And it's all simple. All it ever took for ostracism and harassment to take place is the perception that "Authority" doesn't like individual X. When every hierarchy operates more or less the same the prejudice of the top layer will become the policy of the rest of the pyramid - with neither plan nor conscious or deliberate action needed. That's how social structures work.

          "“Stormfront perhaps, or Breitbart”- I suspect that this is itself, your own confession of loyalty. Whats your nym there? "

          Don't have one, because I don't waste my time trying to post messages on nazi/white supremacy forum boards. But again it's telling that your first reaction is marginalization of anyone doubting your conspiracy theory - which in the end boils down to "The jews did it". Sorry, but you don't get to play the old game of screaming "thief" with your own hand so visibly down the cookie jar. I don't recall blaming Israel or the ADL for every Bad Thing(TM) to happen, which you are regularly guilty of.

          You seem to be very keen on trying to smear anti-nazis and the anti-religious with the nazi/religious brush. Which is fairly pathetic given that most regular commenters and readers here know otherwise and most casual readers won't see your posts because they've been flagged by the vast majority as shitpost trolling.

          "blind assertions- You NEVER read the linked material. Not once, ever. I suspect lily white cockblocker parade..."

          Actually, i did the first few times. Which is why those few times I was quick to note that few of the links I perused provided the conclusion you were trying to sell. With the same order of link causality I could build a conspiracy theory out of Apple's EULA (though, to be fair, that's not much of a stretch).

          "you lie outright - No, I do not, as tegards the,ACTUAL and empirically documented fact that organized gang stalking is a highly coordinated and well financed high.policing methodology..."

          Since I never claimed you did then that's a lie I am not guilty of either. What you HAVE done is to imply that it's all part of a major plan by <insert convenient suspect here, and ALWAYS mention Israel>.

          I am indeed, incidentally, white. I realize that in your twisted narrative of "You vs Everyone" that may just be a condemnation in itself.

          "I am not sure why YOU are around here either, other than that TD(and Masnick Et al ) is fairly white..."

          Because Techdirt is a publication focused around technology and the impacts of technology in society and I happen to be interested in technology?
          Sorry if that doesn't fit your "narrative" about an all-white cis-gendered heterosexual echo chamber.

          The difference between the two of us is that I don't answer every invitation to debate everyone else with a pompous shitload of rhetoric marginalization of anyone who demands extraordinary evidence to support extraordinary claims.

          Added onto that your usual claims are so convoluted and calling for Prime Movers behind every unpleasantness brought to the TD forums attention that by now whatever message you might have wanted to come across has become, in the eyes of everyone around here, a string of invectives topped by the hypothesis of "The jews are behind everything".

          That's why I ask why you even bother. You have become that shouty unpleasant person who couldn't, by now, get a single person to listen to anything you say and your contribution to this forum as a whole is a series of "This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it".

          That's why I recommend Breitbart etc, where I hear moderation doesn't exist, and "Stormfront" where everyone will probably listen as long as you make sure to include a nod towards ADL or Israel in every post, almost irrespective of whatever else you have to say.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 10:22pm

          Re: Re: Re: re: no backing?

          Here’s the thing. Everything starting from here:

          You make excellent, somewhat effective points in many places, but seem to be a cockblock on issues that affect communities that you suborn to speak for, aka, communities of color, etc.

          was essentially a word-for-word copy of another post you sent to me.

          Up until I noticed this, a part of me thought that, whatever our differences, whatever flaws you had, you were at least genuine. Now, more than ever, I am seriously offended by your conduct. What possible excuse could you possibly have for sending this apparently-personal-but-actually-just-a-carbon-copy-of-another-post to both me and SDM? You expect to be taken seriously, but then you go and pull crap like this?! Seriously? Is this some kind of sick joke to you? I come here to have genuine discussions about topics, maybe even come to understand people that others dismiss as crazy or trolls. This is beyond the pale.

          Do you have anything to say in your defense?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    R/O/G/S...., 17 Jan 2020 @ 12:12pm

    SDM, please elaborate on your bizarre accusation, in re: ROGS is somehow
    “actively malicious”...
    malicious to /towards WHO? And /or, what.?

    I dare you to explain THAT.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 20 Jan 2020 @ 1:48am

      Re:

      "SDM, please elaborate on your bizarre accusation, in re: ROGS is somehow “actively malicious”...malicious to /towards WHO? And /or, what.? "

      Anyone who answers one of your posts with a question or criticism ends up with at least one, usually more implications that they are religious, racist, stupid, privileged, or otherwise tainted.

      And your posts themselves rather than focus on whatever topic invariably end up implying that it all has to do with Israel in the end. Which makes no sense, honestly. There's plenty to say about Israel as a government and ADL as a government PR machine, but the way you do it all you accomplish is to drive people away from the topic more effectively than if you had been a paid marketing consultant for whatever hypothetical conspiracy you're ranting about.

      Basically you are malicious towards anyone who doesn't blindly accept your narrative. And that, I'm afraid, means that you are fundamentally hostile towards some 99% of humanity, let alone this tech-centered forum where we usually want a higher standard of cause-effect linkage than "government sux because Jews".

      The phenomenon is called "Fortress mentality". Ironically, something extremists, including nazis and jewish fanatics alike are deeply entrenched in to consolidate their beliefs that it's "them against the world".

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      • identicon
        Allen Derschowitz, 20 Jan 2020 @ 10:11am

        Re: Re:

        re"government sux because Jews"

        Food for Fodder

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        For the Rogscord, 20 Jan 2020 @ 10:22am

        Re: Re:

        re: Anyone who answers one of your posts with a question or criticism ends up with at least one, usually more implications that they are religious, racist, stupid, privileged, or otherwise tainted.

        Few have been.more libeled /slandered, or merely maligned here in the last three weeks than lil old one voice me.

        But I appreciate your criticism, and more importantly, share your avowal of atheism /secularity.

        That seems important, in pseudo-real dialectic space online.

        I hereby admit, I, was incorrect/disingenuous that assuming a person who uses the word Monastery or Devil in their nym was religious, and not an anagrammatical ploy /play.

        But I dont think a teenager from Zimbabwe, or Phnom Pen, who is being preyed upon by
        foreign evangelicals would get that on any level.

        Just sayin ’

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 21 Jan 2020 @ 1:30am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "Few have been.more libeled /slandered, or merely maligned here in the last three weeks than lil old one voice me."

          I've taken some pains to read the exchanges. Generally speaking this is what I've seen:

          You; "assertion"
          Responder #1; "question, request for citation".
          You; "metric arseloads of abuse, invective, and/or implications that 'Responder #1' is an ignorant dumbass'".
          Responder #1; "Lowers bar of civility to match your latest comunication".

          You are treating everyone you are communicating with as if they are lesser beings. No more sure way exists to guarantee you will be met with that response in turn. As a result of which your comments now almost all end up flagged as soon as the dozen or so regular commenters to spend time around here have come to the conclusion that "Ah, it's just ROGS again".

          The same way posts and comments unmistakably from Hamilton/Blue/Jhon end up flagged as soon as we notice his particular rhetoric, and Zof gets flagged because he has a history which has the crowd flagging him out of, by now, reflex.

          "I hereby admit, I, was incorrect/disingenuous that assuming a person who uses the word Monastery or Devil in their nym was religious, and not an anagrammatical ploy /play. "

          Part of the reason i cling to it is as a constant reminder that keywords can trigger narratives in themselves. I tend to view posts mentioning the word "copyright" through a red haze simply because my popperian preconception reads that word as "information control".

          "But I dont think a teenager from Zimbabwe, or Phnom Pen, who is being preyed upon by foreign evangelicals would get that on any level. "

          I doubt a teen from disadvantaged parts of the 3rd world in line for predatory evangelicalism will be showing up in bulk on the forum I visit with great frequency. If anything they will - hopefully - be exchanging information on local BBS's about the neo-colonial remnants spreading their toxic memes in the native population.

          It's ironic and unfortunately not unexpected to observe that when the doomsday cults and extreme-puritan calvinists found the reception to their message largely lacking in the affluent west they instantly went tromping in Ignazius de Loyola's footsteps, bringing "missionaries" to the 3rd world. Says a lot about their message that you can only push it down the throat of people inured to desperation and oppression.

          If or when a teen from Pnomh Penh does show up I think an exchange of comments serve well to alleviate whatever initial trigger my chosen nick may have pulled.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Techdirt Online Mobbing2, 21 Jan 2020 @ 11:04am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, thanks

            Indeed, lets debate it.

            Re: You; "assertion"
            Responder #1; "question, request for citation".
            You; "metric arseloads of abuse, invective, and/or implications that 'Responder #1' is an ignorant dumbass'".
            Responder #1; "Lowers bar of civility to match your latest comunication"

            All of what you said there would be correct if my main thesis were incorrect, which it is not, and which I will restate, while conceding that much of what I do is penetration testing of both dialogues online, and comment systems and forums that bias towards establishment viewpoints, while aiding in the smashing actual dissent, while funneling it into establishment norms, and channels of acceptable speech:

            • TDs bias is to the establishment, and routinely fails to word police AC commenters who feed that narrative with flamebait, who never, ever address the posts above the commentary; and TD allows its mods to flag by IP (which we all know is disastrous for activists around the world, right? , while flagging

            • platforms that ally themselves with known race supremacists, or willingly and wittingly collaborate /conspire with said race supremacists to enable preferential treatment, or inhibit open discourse can NOT in any way claim a, “community” status, unless said platform is,also part of the heinous, community policing that has destroyed so many actual activists.

            • that any platform, TD in this case, that claims to have an open forum, or are interested in debate but routinely uses/encourages the derailing tactics of the far right (AC commenters here who contribute NOTHING to commentary about the materials at hand, and only deploy invectives, go unflagged after my every post) are part of the problem of the repression of dissent, and more.

            • that a large portion of the two points above likely and statistically include members of crisis PR firms, NGOs, military enabled trolls, and worse kinds of derailers based on the fact that some 40% of web comments are DoD affilliates(I will only cite or source that if you are interested in publicizing it ) who pose as concerned citizens, or as the exact ACs that routinely race -bait here, and use all kinds of derigeratories, but for some reason TDs “community ” never flags them away.

            On a side note, many of THOSE faux -commenters work in Alphabet agencies, and my blog got a follower from the DoD last August, after a particularly Jew -baiting slander occured here, which is significant to my thesis

            • then, because organized gang stalking has been relegated by mainstream media and politicized psychology as a delusion when in fact it is a complex social engineering scheme which has other names, ranging from parallel colliding investigations to simple police corruption as you posit (and in no way is it simple )which breaks, transcends and skirts the law; and which has been definitively linked to mass shootings, it is extremely important that those who claim it have a way to prove it, and links online to resources, and dialogues about it . I provide that, even here, and ask others to do the same .

            So, in that light, I recently dealt (once again ) with an encounter with GWs evangelical NGO InternationalJusticeMinistries, which opened my eyes to yhe scope of gang stalking denialism, and that particular organizations world wide influence on people from Zimbabwe, Somalia, Bangladesh, Thailand, Vit Nam, and many more countriesvia that EXACT counter -intelligence tactic of conversion.

            But sadly, because those writers here with access to a wide and possibly empathetic, somewhat liberal audience wherein information about organized gang stalking can be found, sadly, think OGS is a delusion, and refuse to print the phrase as written, for fear they will be accused of writing from tinfoil lined keyboards; and THOSE people thus, only can find poor ROGS getting flamebait /etc., by supposedly rational people here.

            Otherwise known as the establishment.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:20am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, thanks

              "All of what you said there would be correct if my main thesis were incorrect, which it is not..."

              Whether you are right or wrong is completely irrelevant if no one listens. It will always be up to you to convince your audience of the correctness of your claims. No human being owes blind credibility to another.

              In fact I could argue that the main reason you have anything to complain about is that all too many are content to simply listen, accept, and move accordingly.

              "...much of what I do is penetration testing of both dialogues online, and comment systems and forums that bias towards establishment viewpoints..."

              And congratulations, in that testing you successfully turn neutral and originally non-hostiles against listening to you.
              While, I might add, spreading the meme that "keyword X" means the person speaking needs to be considered a crackpot to start with.

              "TDs bias is to the establishment..."

              Given that just about every OP on TD is a criticism against said establishment I'm not really sure where you picked that up. Argument discarded as infactual until you can back that up with a logical reason.

              "platforms that ally themselves with known race supremacists, or willingly and wittingly collaborate /conspire with said race supremacists to enable preferential treatment, or inhibit open discourse can NOT in any way claim a, “community” status..."

              So what has this to do with you regularly acting like an ass on Techdirt? I could understand slings and arrows shot at a few dozen forums where "race" is an issue indeed, and a few platforms, such as Gab, which caters to bigotry.

              "that any platform, TD in this case, that claims to have an open forum, or are interested in debate but routinely uses/encourages the derailing tactics of the far right..."

              An "open forum" means there's a give and take situation where a debate is civilly carried out. It's not that of one party making an assertion and trying to shut down any doubters by screaming.
              Most techdirt commenters are hermeneutics in philosophy and do NOT take kindly to those who assert, with nigh-religious conviction, that they know the One Truth. We get enough of that from the alt-right troll who spams the threads.

              If your criteria for "open" is "blindly accepts what i say without question" then you aren't looking for a forum - you are looking for a cult to lead.

              "that a large portion of the two points above likely and statistically include members of crisis PR firms, NGOs, military enabled trolls, and worse kinds of derailers based on the fact that some 40% of web comments are DoD affilliates..."

              That, right there, is a claim so unlikely it underlines a lot of what I say. You state outright that 4 out of 10 teenagers shitposting on 4chan and almost half the crowd on TD are astroturfing trolls.
              That's Russel's Teapot, right there. And requires extraordinary evidence to be taken seriously. and if 40% of the online part of the human race were in on such agendas, it would have been revealed a hundred times over by now. THAT is tinfoil hat territory.

              "...but for some reason TDs “community ” never flags them away."

              That is verifiably incorrect. I've actually read quite a few of those flagged comments and can state otherwise - nine times out of ten a bigot comment gets to enjoy about half a day's worth of visibility before it gets flagged sufficiently to be hidden.
              Some of those bigots are, by now, reflexively flagged.
              The same holds true for anyone who tries to engage in dictatorial discourse which is why you end up regularly flagged as well.

              "then, because organized gang stalking has been relegated by mainstream media and politicized psychology as a delusion when in fact it is a complex social engineering scheme which has other names..."

              One of those names is, lamentably, "human nature".
              It's not an "engineering scheme" other than in the same way that an ant hive practices advanced architecture. Biologists, anthropologists, and sociologists have written entire libraries worth of the darker side of human nature and how many mechanisms built right into modern society enables, rather than suppresses that side.

              Gang stalking? Bullying and ostracism in a world where the "tribe" or "clique" is connected through networks which instead of spanning a small village, can span a continent.
              Which is why if you piss off a cop in Los Angeles you may find your name on that gang list the OP comments on, and that list is in turn read by cops in Chicago, where you then get the treatment.

              The "organizer" - the "prime mover" is nothing more than a few million years worth of evolution, enabled by half a dozen moron politicians who felt it was a great idea to let national law enforcement share a list of people who any officer, anywhere didn't like, or "felt" was suspicious.

              But sure as hell you can scrape the surface and come up with the full set of alphabet soup agencies, because being human they are susceptible in falling in line with the rest of the herd in how they share lists of "enemies" without too much consideration in how any given individual became an enemy or the criteria used to determine that. But when you do you're the blind man feeling up an elephant and claiming you've got hold of a hose, a tree trunk or a wall, depending on where you are.

              Since US law enforcement does have a lot of racists and judeo-christian pseudozealots in their ranks one of the criteria to end up on the "enemy" list is "being brown". Another is "having the wrong kind of name".

              Conspiracy theories stating that this is all the work of one or more large organizations are so very comfortable. They tell you it's all the fault of a small group of easily identified targets. No one really wants to hear that it's just your entire species being so badly adapted to a wider world it goes nucking futz once a social network spreads further than a small village.

              Denial by media, politicians, and the every day joe about this is similarly easy to understand. Because no politician will admit that law enforcement and government agencies act as massive bullies based entirely on prejudice and casual ineptitude.

              What we've got is simple - a species (humanity) incapable of putting reins on their prejudice and largely unable to understand the ramifications of their actions where every major decisionmaker is heavily incentivized to looking for the quick, easy, and cheap act to deal with criminals and what the herd of sheeple considers "hazardous". Enter a spate of shit, mostly just dumb but occasionally harmful legislation, and tools such as the list in the OP, no-fly lists, terrorist watchlists based on whatever some gang of afghanistan warlords or saudi vested interests claimed...

              And you end up with the world as is.

              The only solution I can see is first of all to realize that the issue is with the human race as a whole. Our biology is hardwired to look for threats against the tribe, and WILL find such threats no matter how hard it has to look for them.

              And secondly, ensure that our society is constructed in such a way as to oppress that instinctive behavior rather than enabling it.

              The second part is what I - and apparently many others here on TD - do when we criticize the use of tools such as the list in the OP and the second war on encryption going on.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Wowser, 23 Jan 2020 @ 11:07am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, thanks

                You write pretty damn good, your rationale is solid, and we fundamentally agree on about 98%, so its hard/impossible to refute what you are saying-you have a very good grasp on evolutionary processes, shitty humans, and the HIVE mind (I,will mention this later).

                And re: Whether you are right or wrong is completely irrelevant if no one listens is excellent criticism of my approach, and I take it to heart. I am open to suggestions, and ask you directly:

                How would YOU approach publicizing the exact term organized gang stalkingwhich has previously been used to gaslight victims of these practices, and sheep dip them to hide insight into illegal warrantless surveillance and other police/intel misconduct?

                On that note, I want to briefly rehash the fact that forums like TDs are stalked and slid by the exact people and groups I have identified, and that these target commentary like mine more heavily than conformist commentary, and partisan banter.

                Also, to highlight the fact that you are working from an entirely different set of assumptions than I,am, because I dont consider, nor want, military trolls, NGO crisis PR agents, and intel agency astroturfers to be considered as somehow benign members of the Techdirt/other community without wearing some kind of identifier, and, if the case here is that TDs big happy kumbaya teepee includes these spooks as community members, it in no way is a citizen populated community, it is a de facto military/poluce/intel cyber base.

                So the last three weeks are possibly evidence of that, and I will return to it later.

                Yes, I am guilty as charged of stating, and restating my claim that some 40% of online comments are Pentagon/other military/think tank/NGO affilliated, and I would have to dig for my reference (going back over five years of research).

                But, that 40% estimate isnt just mine, and its based upon reporting by the Intercept/Wired/ArsTechnica and others, but I cannot pull out the right search language out of duckduckgo right now to get those links.

                Heres just one example of the general idea if Pentagon astroturfing:

                https://newspunch.com/pentagon-troll-army-propaganda/

                Britain/FVEYs propaganda operations are equally odious, and add to the pile, and 40%. estimate; and these,are definitely targeting citizens of our nations with illegal, non-consensual PsOps.

                But because my research is a work in progress, I will refine it later.

                So , and my main points, for clarity.

                1- my research is rough, and personal. I have linked and clarified much of my assertions, sans fine tuning.

                2- my research is specifically and extensively geared towards two simple premises/outcomes:

                a) targeted individuals need validation, and liberation from the stigma surrounding their victimization,

                b) that the terms THEY use to describe their non-delusional, yet absurd condition is,organized gang stalking, and that maunstreaming that simple phrase can begin the validation process, and “disrupt” bad government/NGO/ etc. practices.

                So, returning to the HIVE mind, which I wrote about a couple years back, in obluque, coded terms, I must reveal that I cannot always reveal what I know, or have discivered about these programs, for obvious reasons that you might infer.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 24 Jan 2020 @ 1:41am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, thanks

                  Hrm. I have few good answer, most of the issues you mention being things that have been hard nuts to deal with since the days of Plato.

                  "How would YOU approach publicizing the exact term organized gang stalkingwhich has previously been used to gaslight victims of these practices, and sheep dip them to hide insight into illegal warrantless surveillance and other police/intel misconduct?"

                  By reformulating it and narrowing it down to clear, concise terms which do not become overly broad. Sociologists and liberal academics have commented on the swarm mentality of bullies for more years than I can conveniently count and if there is leverage to be had, that's where you'll find it.

                  We all know bullies organize. Everyone who's gone through high school has either observed or heard of how one thug ends up with a spontaneously emerging swarm of followers.

                  A casual perusal of online bullying (cyberbullying, for truly well-documented examples, read up on gamersgate and similar cases) shows how this pans out in the more fluid online environment where the victim traverses (and is attacked) through whatever social network they use to socialize in. Communications potentiates the bullying because it not rarely attracts passing trolls who might physically be a continent away.

                  Now when you add to this mess the badge of authority shit gets truly toxic. Ferguson. the Rodney King incident. Most of the shit we hear from Barr. All of what he heard from cheney and Ashcroft about what it means to be an "enemy sympathizer".

                  It's important to note that scale plays a role. you can have 100 officers and if 99 of them try to do their jobs right it still isn't enough. Because if out of a thousand cops you have just a mere ten of them being assholes that's enough to bring grief to thousands of people. Those ten will back one another up, find sympathizers among the normal citizenry eager to land a kick in the ribs of anyone already on the floor, and when they get questioned, can simply flash a badge or whine to the police union about how they're unjustly smeared.

                  Getting past that veneer of respectability is hard. It's been done, and often, but it rarely results in a clear-cut victory and then mainly once the bully has gone far enough to stand out as a murderer. People by and large grow up thinking that police officers are the "good guys", and it takes a LOT of effort for bad officers to overturn that conditioning.

                  In the US, today, It's uphill work. Witness the entrenched situation where when a cop acts like a complete thug all other officers and the unions have their back. I'm afraid until the narrative swings the other way and it finally percolates to even the alt-right that law enforcement must be held to stricter rules, not laxer ones because they hold the violence monopoly your ability to push your case is slim.

                  What you need to do is to narrow it down to individual names, times, places. Documentation, witnesses, process. Until you have documented evidence of officer malfeasance you have no case - just hearsay. It's a bit like how they couldn't nail Capone on any of his multitude of crimes but did nail him on tax evasion. You need two things to break a boulder. A wedge, and a crack to fit it in. Both require focus, not a dispersed agenda.

                  "On that note, I want to briefly rehash the fact that forums like TDs are stalked and slid by the exact people and groups I have identified, and that these target commentary like mine more heavily than conformist commentary, and partisan banter. "

                  What we've got on Techdirt is, primarily, the part of the readership which sees fit to comment. Most of whom will flag what they perceive as trolling because the only "stalker" we've got around here is one dedicated right-wing copyright troll and two or three others who occasionally come around to fuck things up for shitz'n'giggles. When you started sounding like one of those you ended up in the flag-on-sight category.

                  Sometimes the moderation is broader than it should be according to me, but it takes a lot of flags for a post to be hidden, and the fact that most of our current communication hasn't been flagged away should indicate that as soon as you started talking rather than shouting, that "crowd of stalkers" you mention appear to have lost power. Perhaps because from the start they were only people who wanted a sanitary debating climate.

                  Compare this to old Bobmail/Jhon/Blue who doesn't get to keep any comment visible when he starts "discussing" copyright or law enforcement because we already know it's all going to be a shitpost taking up unnecessary space and messing up the format of the thread.

                  "if the case here is that TDs big happy kumbaya teepee includes these spooks as community members, it in no way is a citizen populated community, it is a de facto military/poluce/intel cyber base."

                  And pretty obviously, TD doesn't. For one primary reason above all; If the US intelligence community spared even a single paid associate for half of the forums online that'd ensure they got nothing else done. Again, it's a matter of scale.

                  The "spooks", as you call them, are, today, to an overwhelming extent people like Snowden - civilian security contractors who've landed themselves jobs perusing such a massive shitload of data they literally have to start by using the dumbest method they can just to begin sorting it - enter NSA's open confession that they're working from a "three degrees of separation" policy to sort the data before they veen get started trying to analyze anything. What vanishes into that great filter is some 99% of anything which was relevant to begin with, and what slips through is similarly mainly useless - senior citizens, dead people, and IoT-devices pointed out as "red-flagged suspects" by an algorithm desperate programmers coded to make sense of the data tide.

                  "Yes, I am guilty as charged of stating, and restating my claim that some 40% of online comments are Pentagon/other military/think tank/NGO affilliated..."

                  And once again, that assumes that 40% of the giggling teens, neckbeards, snotnosed gamers and unpleasant people from the KKK are affiliated to government agendas.
                  And that just ain't the case.
                  Astroturfing and especially the various types of vested interests trying to pull their spin are, to be honest, bluntly obvious. No one is willing to spend the money to have someone shitposting propaganda or stalking forums 24/7 and so it gets pretty obvious whenever the forums suddenly get flooded with propaganda trolls.

                  It may help to realize that anyone who sits down to carry out the agenda of any other party will be getting paid. And the budget of whoever does the paying isn't infinite. Your assumption that 40% of online commentators means, by logical definition, that someone, out there has infinite amounts of money. On a scale which would let them BUY every square foot pof land in the US outright and say "OK, anyone who agrees with us can stay, the rest will have to go".

                  It also means that those 40% won't even have to do that. Extended logically we're talking about such a significant proportion of the citizenry that they could simply sit down and vote away the entire government in their favor.

                  We actually have facts in hand on how this scenario is an impossibility - both soviet russia and the DDR, as well as assorted other warsaw states tried, really hard to monitor and stalk everyone. And they couldn't do it, even in a time when "online" didn't exist.

                  "Heres just one example of the general idea if Pentagon astroturfing:"

                  You know what they are describing, right?

                  Wartime PSYOPS aimed at other nations. Basically the US version of the russian and chinese 50-cent army. You similarly have the FBI lurking on suspected CP-friendly forums and religious forums. But that revelation really isn't one. It's a case of government agencies specifically targeting places where they think they'll find what they're looking for.

                  It doesn't mean, and never has, that they'll be lurking on every forum where people talk shit about the government. They don't have that manpower. Again. Scale. Resources are finite and even government at least attempts to make them count.

                  "and these,are definitely targeting citizens of our nations with illegal, non-consensual PsOps."

                  And here's the question; WHY? Why try anything even resembling a convoluted psyop when history has shown that whenever authority needs to shut someone up the easiest way to do that is by ignoring them?

                  Someone like you they can shut down easily enough. Any question posed will be met with one credible authority stating two words; "Conspiracy theory".
                  At which point anyone whose commentary resembles a conspiracy theory is immediately relegated to the mental trash can of the citizenry in general - including those who have personal experience of being bullied or harassed by cops.

                  If they actually invest any effort, however, that only loses them resources and risks revelation that someone IS taking whatever is discussed seriously.

                  "1- my research is rough, and personal. I have linked and clarified much of my assertions, sans fine tuning. "

                  ...which doesn't help. Everyone knows for a fact that government overreach in citizen data collection is endemic and ubiquitous. But until you have evidence and specific names and actions there's no actionable case. Essentially your research claims that the sky is blue. A fact everyone knows and doesn't, currently, give much thought about. What you actually need is something that will hold up in court and for that you need more than a hypothesis.

                  "a) targeted individuals need validation, and liberation from the stigma surrounding their victimization, "

                  There are numerous citizenry watchdog organizations and NGO's dedicated to this. But again what you will need is specific and detailed accounts, because such organizations are also swamped by any Dick, Joe and Harry who feels the gubmint has someone done wronged them.

                  "b) that the terms THEY use to describe their non-delusional, yet absurd condition is,organized gang stalking, and that maunstreaming that simple phrase can begin the validation process, and “disrupt” bad government/NGO/ etc. practices."

                  Except that strictly speaking there's no "organization" behind it. What works for the bully in the schoolyard and the thug in the street works many times better online. It's an unfortunate aspect of humanity that there are people whose self-affirmation requires them to victimize someone weaker than them in a power trip. All that is required is for someone to point out a target - the rest is just blood poured on a school of piranhas as far as "organization" is concerned.

                  I'd recommend you to watch "The Wave" - the disastrous experiment of the history teacher Ron Jones as his attempt to figure out how come an ostensibly normal german citizenry could adopt, as a whole, the tenets of Hitler.
                  As well as the "blue eyes brown eyes" experiment by Jane elliott.

                  Most of humanity needs little urging at all to assemble in pseudo-tribal structures and act aggressively against the perceived outsider.

                  What is required is to ensure society empowers the would-be victims and allow the silent majority who lamentably often just don't give a damn, to act.

                  And unfortunately the last few generations of US leaders have instead opted to encourage mechanisms and tools which enable scapegoatism and fear. In this they are hardly alone and I have to do a lot of thinking before I can name even three european leaders in recent times who have earnestly tried to stem that tide of ill-directed suspicion and hatred. Jens Stoltenberg being one when he responded to the Breivik Mass murder with rational thoughts rather than the call for more mass surveillance and suspicion than other world leaders love to grasp for.

                  Again. You keep looking for a "plan". There is none. There's just biology driving humanity into assembling in pseudo-tribal swarms of aggression and hostility. No one had to plan anything around the gamersgate mess. All of it - the persistent stalking, bullying on and offline, gaslighting...all of it just a mass of ants acting by instinct and feedback reaction to build what appears to be, to most onlookers, like a carefully planned and executed cathedral of hatred and marginalization.

                  Most of us want to look for a Plan, a Grand Design. Because not a single one of us really wants to accept to which degree we are still monkeys sitting in the trees and flinging our own feces at the trespassing outsider and the runt of the flock.

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              • identicon
                f/rO/G/S...., 23 Jan 2020 @ 3:12pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, thanks

                I honestly hope that you, as a skeptic/atheist type cand find in your own commentcabout my attempts to validate/invalidate a hypotheses:

                re: congratulations, in that testing you successfully turn neutral and originally non-hostiles against listening to you

                Right. Never test. Never challenge. Never substantiate.

                CUZ WHY?

                Cuz the establishment might shun/ban/ostracize you.

                I seriously hope your irony meter broke there, and dropped mercury shards, and vapors all over your own claimed basis.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 10:57pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok, thanks

                  It’s not testing, per se, that’s the problem here. It’s the method of testing.

                  If by “testing” you mean “hurling insults at people for no good reason or for merely questioning or disagreeing with you” or “spamming threads with multiple duplicate posts”, then the obvious result is going to be turning neutral and originally non-hostile readers against you.

                  Feel free to test the waters to see how people will respond to your ideas. Feel free to challenge well-accepted ideas to see how well supported they are, and to challenge the establishment and authority to show your individuality and devotion to finding the truth. Feel free (seriously, please feel free) to substantiate your claims with verifiable evidence from reliable sources (or heck, any actual evidence) that support your claims, along with logic and reasoning.

                  However, if you respond unnecessarily harshly to any tests, challenges, questions, disagreements, or requests for substantiation from others towards you (as you have been), then you can’t exactly complain when others respond in kind and expect any sympathy.

                  The only “irony” here is that you seem to think that you should be able to test and challenge all you like without quarrel, but if we try to do the same, then you expect us to take your abuse without complaint.

                  Free speech does not mean consequence-free speech. Whatever hypothesis you were testing, the result of that testing is turning everyone, even potential allies and non-hostiles, into enemies (hyperbole, but you get the idea). You ruined any chance of anyone taking you seriously. That’s the consequence of the method of discourse you chose.

                  Note that when you appear genuine and serious, don’t include harsh language, and don’t repeat yourself multiple times, you don’t get flagged. Violating that generally gets you flagged. You call that “tone trolling”, “derailing”, or “censorship”, but that’s not it. It’s expecting some basic etiquette in a serious discussion. It’s not even like the etiquette is that strict. If someone insults you, then sure, you can insult them back. It’s another thing entirely to insult someone for asking a question or asking for evidence of your claim. Same goes for insulting someone who reads the sources you provide and note that they don’t actually support your point. It’s mostly about reciprocity with etiquette here.

                  Oh, and don’t tell people to kill themselves or that it would be better if they died (or imply such). That isn’t tolerated under any circumstances whatsoever here. There is no excuse for that.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      The Missing Post Goes Here, 20 Jan 2020 @ 10:41am

      Re:

      TDs mods evaporated my self defense against the false claim that those who are R obust O rganized Gang-like S hitbags coopt entire dialectics online, and use bizarre anti -semitic onspiracy theories to derail open discourse online, in provably dialectic -impinged spaces.

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  • identicon
    Gang Stalking, 18 Jan 2020 @ 8:27am

    AKA, "organized intelligennce (agency ) activity, and why the Anti Defamation League affilliated “Scary Devil Monastery”Techdirt commenter is totally full of shit, from Salon.com:

    Israeli "art students ” target DEA agents, via the NSA -Israel wiretap:

    https://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Lily White, 19 Jan 2020 @ 2:23pm

    What a surprise! SDM didnt step up to defend my honor, despite his /her usual abjections! !

    (crying tears of abjection )

    Waaahahaha...

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  • identicon
    Cuz, effect, 20 Jan 2020 @ 10:06am

    re: Online mobbing TD

    SDM, thank you for your kind, reasoned, and considerate response, and you write rather well.

    But I refuse to allow your claims that I am anti-semitic, as I have criticized every other major shit religion, speech cockblock organization over the years here and elsewhere with ZERO problems. Its nly when I criticize christianities poor helpless butt boys where I get in trouble, i.e., you can criticize Tom’s schemes and traps all day, but leave Jerry ’s ACME plans out of it.

    And, yes, five comments up, you did in fact call me a liar: “That you lie outright about your detractors probably doesn't help.”

    I admit that on occasion I have actually done that, most frequently directed at one -liner, derailing AC chatbots, and a few other established TD in -house trolls too who did it to me first.

    And, I mean, I could go off about Opus Dei, or any other religious spy organization all day and night here and elsewhere, and meet next to zero resistance, but the dirty dealing, activism coopting ADL and its useful idiots somehow gets me flagged into oblivion.

    However, in trying to rebut those provably false claims of anti -semitism (all my semiticPalestinian friends have been harrassed or deported from the freedumb luvin USA for example, while even Stanley Cohen, Esq. has now identified with the label of targeted individual), my posts go to Techdirt hell /moderation.

    This, on multiple occasions, over the last few days alone.

    Its a proven pattern, that I have studied over multiple platforms for well over a decade: criticize the Jewish mafia-derived ADL, or the Bronfman klan, or the NSA violations of Americans privacy rights via the whole capture of data sent to Israel, and yup, your posts wont make it past TDs Queen Esther.

    And so, I DARE TDs moderator to let my posts on that topic, posted yesterday, today (and over the years ), to go through.I DARE YOU.

    But that wont happen, cuz ’slander. Its what they do whoever they are .

    So, thanks for your response, but I made my point, and document it for posterity.

    And I admit, my goals here have frequently been less than honest, as I practice pen testing of dialectic spaces, but so too is a less -than -honest claim about a forum claiming it is dedicated to free speech but in fact, is moderated by clever manipulators of that exact dialectic, as well as hosting vile ACs who only derail; and a forum that is stacked with ADL trained slanderers and derailers, and pre -propagandized accolytes who accept that form of white racial supremacism, while rejecting other forms of race supremacy.

    Not you, or others here mind you, who come off as just not active where it actually counts to move the ball forwards
    because I am well aware that western media is glutted with fascists who do the ADL/Catholic church/Council of Churches/GWs Evangelical agenda / actual free speech cock blockers jobs for them, for free.

    And you are doing that.

    So, while you write rather well, and are quite convincing in your narrative, and even make fairly excellent points, maybe you missed my main point: I am primarily an act of demonstrative speech - I dont care how I come across to anyone, because I know my main points hit home to readers around the world, not just establishment cock blocks and Queen Esthers minions.

    TDs regular readers ARE the establishment. I,expect to be flagged here now.

    But I simply leave a record for others to follow, because without naming important names who do in fact work behind the scenes, exactly as I portray it (like mind controlling Svengalis, using Moonshot CVE; or as shakedown artists, blackmailers, and spies), these people, whoever they are deserve to be outed, and called what they are.

    So, if anything I have ever written had a positive effect, I am well aware it wasnt on the establishment gatekeepers here or elsewhere, but instead on one of those who might have seen a link here to something I posted about CVE, or the cooption and, redirection of activism after Googling these topics, (TDs flags cannot hide this from Google ).

    Thats enough, I know from experience, to get the message out to unsuspecting targets of these people, whoever they are.

    Lastly, re: you are malicious towards anyone who doesn't blindly accept your narrative

    For what its worth, that 99% you claim?

    Its preposterous, because only half of western society, give /take, struggle with western /Abrahamic /Jewish/white supremacy, the exact way that I once did, while the rest of the world -where I live, and to which I belong -seems to find what I say about Abrahamic religion dominated, white Jewish-christian supremacy quite interesting.

    I even get paid to talk about it, can you dig? Who knew, theres money in something like that?

    Then, theres that thing about gangs of police extorting communities with security contractors, aka, OGS, verified by multiple sources too:

    http://www.aspenhillnet.net/mediawiki/index.php/Organized_Crime,_Stalking

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 21 Jan 2020 @ 3:28am

      Re: re: Online mobbing TD

      "Its nly when I criticize christianities poor helpless butt boys where I get in trouble, i.e., you can criticize Tom’s schemes and traps all day, but leave Jerry ’s ACME plans out of it. "

      And:

      "And, I mean, I could go off about Opus Dei, or any other religious spy organization all day and night here and elsewhere, and meet next to zero resistance, but the dirty dealing, activism coopting ADL and its useful idiots somehow gets me flagged into oblivion. "

      Well, at least now we're having a debate, which is better.
      Let me point out an area which you appear to misunderstand - it is quite possible for an ethnicity or group to be both victim and perpetrator. When those roles coincide, it's a good thing to take extra pains to target your assertions.

      Example; The jewish (ethnicity) irrespective of religious flavor (ashkenazi, sephardic, orthodox or secularized) have been, for several centuries, the target of numerous religious and secular hate groups from every spectrum of the scales.

      Ultraorthodox Ahkenazi like Baruch Kopel Goldstein or Yigal Amir are both jewish and outright terrorists backed by groups of nationalistic hotheads every bit as odious as Hamas.

      And there are people in the Israeli government, the IDF, and the Knesset who even if they aren't outright terrorists still do share the fortress mentality of "us vs them". Some of which filters through to the ADL.

      So where does this leave the ADL? Generally speaking the message of equality is a positive one. The part where they act against ANY criticism of Israel and particularly any political organization which is pro-palestinian is markedly less so.

      This means trying to implement a term which takes the ADL and runs it across a decisive absolute of "good or evil" becomes deceptive and incorrect practice. Hence the importance of nailing down what, specifically, is utter shit about the way it practices, if for no other reason that a differentiated and logical response forces an actual reaction other than just letting most people dismiss it as pseudo-nazi rhetoric. Which is pretty important given that actual nazis use the exact same rhetoric as well. Not a brush with which one wishes to be tarred.
      Opus Dei is an easier target since, for the secular normie who even knows of it, it does come across as a cult of self-flagellating extremists.

      The same holds true for the entirety of Judeo-christian religion which i had a rather deep slugfest about with, among others, bhull. It's easy to nag about the religious not just because a lot of them act according to a superiority complex of "chosen ones vs pagans" but also because, and this is FAR more dangerous, imho, religion teaches thinking specimens of homo sapiens sapiens to ignore factual evidence before their very eyes in favor of belief.

      That said I still have to give more credence to a mild-mannered methodist than i show towards a westboro baptist church member.

      "Its a proven pattern, that I have studied over multiple platforms for well over a decade: criticize the Jewish mafia-derived ADL, or the Bronfman klan, or the NSA violations of Americans privacy rights via the whole capture of data sent to Israel, and yup, your posts wont make it past TDs Queen Esther. "

      I posit Hanlon's razor again, I'm afraid. A post in anger which talks about "jewish mafia-derived ADL" will come across as written by a stormfront refugee because, bluntly put, the rhetoric is word for word the same as the one actual nazis have peddled for decades.
      And that has most moderators, short on time and with better things to do, reaching for the banhammer.

      Similarly the NSA violations of citizens privacy (not just americans but, looking at SWIFT, PRISM, xkeyscore, etc etc, the whole damn world) isn't sent to "Israel". It's basically sent, in bulk, to any government in Good Standing with the US. As a result of which we get the following, from my own personal viewpoint;

      Swedish government; "We aren't allowed to spy on our own citizens without good and valid reason".
      Swedish Security Police;
      "But we're allowed to receive information from our Allies?"
      Swedish Government;
      "...yes."
      Swedish security police;
      "Goodie gumdrops <opens xkeyscore and downloads the latest US file on swedish citizen data>"*

      Israel? This is, in reverse of the previous argument, going after a single actor which is the result of a massive overreach by US intelligence projects which has citizen data - and subsequent analysis, much of it hamfisted and subjective - leaking to well over a hundred separate agencies worldwide, no few of them outright malicious or apt to disseminate to malicious actors (saudi arabia and turkey spring to mind).

      "TDs regular readers ARE the establishment. I,expect to be flagged here now."

      This is, in fact, wrong. TD's regular readership consists mainly of those inclined to follow technological progress and it's impact on society and politics with a seriously critical eye. For the "establishment" view, you need to look at that single pro-authority troll who pops up every time we discuss the DoJ or Barr.

      However, because TD's regular readership is used to, by now, deal with bypassing trolls, it reacts predictably to assertions which are unbacked by common sense or which adhere closely to what prior trolls on visit from murkier forums have claimed.

      Thus, to bring an example, a calm factual commentary on gang stalking featuring how this has spread as an accepted and deplorable standard among not only law enforcement precincts but increasingly among citizenry cliques of various kinds is far more likely to meet constructive debate than a brief rant about "ADLification" which most will identify as identical to what a passing Stormfront troll tried to sell us last month.

      "Then, theres that thing about gangs of police extorting communities with security contractors, aka, OGS, verified by multiple sources too"

      Which is actually interesting when you link it to the TD post a few weeks back on the DoJ's Barr talking about how the public had better stop criticizing the police or else the police might just stop coming around when you need them.

      In this particular case I think you're trying to kick down open doors because the summary concensus of the TD crowd right now is that at least according to the publicly stated opinion of some disturbingly highly placed law enforcement authorities, the police can often be considered a most successful gang or pseudocriminal enterprise in itself, in the US of today.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Gary Webb More, 22 Jan 2020 @ 7:06am

        Re: Re: re: Online mobbing TD

        Excellent points about the Swedes and FVEYs and even your criticism of my political position as regards those two competing groups of white racists that you mention above.

        ADL-JDL♥Stormfront 4Ever

        I was was personally cyber-stalked, and offline stalked by named Progressive /Establishment /AIPAC affliated/ Israelis and other NGO sponsored groups and their conservative, primarily white security /police armies, (one of whom I sued and settled with ) as I discussed elsewhere, so, my bias is against that, for good reasons.

        And, I fully recognize that the Swedes are heavilly involved in this stuff too, exactly as you stated.

        But dont misread my posts as angry when in fact, they are often just satire, or mocking defamation of that group of famous defamers and its enablers, here at TD. I do not elevate them as authorities on anything either, being somewhat rabid themselves.

        I give equal credence to scary methodists or lutherans as I do to westboro, because scapegoating the more obvious fanatics like Westboro hides the tyranny of the majorities who are every bit as odious on issues of public policy (for example, privacy, due process, or institutional abuses like prisons, and inaction on liberation, because those religious interests having vested interests in incarcerations.)

        Again, Hanlons is perhaps a useful tool to decide if the Scythian warrior women are /are not the legendary Amazons according to Jerry Falwell, or some other biased pundit , or the difference between fragments of knuckle bone fossils found in sediments as ape /not ape according to Westboro Baptists, but it has zero effectiveness in sussing out extensive, pervasive, directed police/intel agency misconduct starting at the internet backbone, precisely because the majoritarians are winning by occluding their methods and disallowing insight into unconstitutional government conduct, hidden behind CVE “investgative privilege*

        As such, Hanlons is an innefective tool in these cases.

        So, for example, “did the FBI actually write the infamous letter to MLK? And, even if it /they /them did, was there an ACTUAL statement directed at him that he go kill himself? ”

        In that case, the answers are most likely, and no, they never told him to go kill himself outright, they merely inferred it. Them, whoever they* are.

        So, we accept the general thrust, via Hanlons razor, that actual malice AND stupidity are involved, but that both are true in that case.

        AND: despite an actual lack of actual priven evidence evidence in either case, as those records and surveillance tapes are still sealedand we now,argue the point, much too late.

        https://allthatsinteresting.com/fbi-martin-luther-king-tapes

        So, in counter-terrorism manufacturing, we know that actual malice is present, and stated in literally millions of ways since Patriot Act 1, directed at amorphous, nebulous, and ever-morphing manufactured threats as CVE-founded in neocon ideology, with the Anti - social D erailing L unatics( I think TD is now blocking the use of that acronym, still testing ) supporting, and and encouraging it, as well as heavily trolling /moderating this exact forum by proxy.

        re: regular readership consists mainly of those inclined to follow technological progress

        Maybe. But if we add up the comments, some 10-50% of the commenters and comments are clearly partisan.

        So I dont think it helps that you view center -left moderates and gatekeepers (the brunt ofTDs commenters) as escaping the label of establishment merely because the obvious establishment figures of Repubs /Barr /etc. are somehow obvious.

        In fact, that exact group of c-l liberals and socialists has dogmas that are little better than religion, and provably AS BAD, in most cases (again, prisons /DVIC courts /etc.; and in the political slander machinery they employ echoing church dogmas EXACTLY).

        Lastly, you said bring an example, a calm factual commentary on gang stalking, which I initially did here several years ago.

        You can guess what happened after that, with all the vested interests and dueling establishment figures both right and left driving the narrative into absurdity, much as I demonstrated the last three weeks.

        And so, here we are, three years later, but with a twist: three years ago there was only one camp of MSM reportage on OGS, and now, there are two:

        • OGS denialists, who are all affilliated with establishment institutions (journalism is just one ) and most often their crackpot leadership and actual milutary trained disinfo agents who actually are current and former cops /intel /CIA /NSA /DIA/JTRIG spooks

        • OGS victims, who are people who encounter these highly organized groups of sociopaths mentioned above in the linked material.

        For the record, I have never had any need for cops ever, except to intervene in situations created by other cops and to pit them against each other, in the public spaces which can be an effective tactic of self defense.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 23 Jan 2020 @ 8:43am

          Re: Re: Re: re: Online mobbing TD

          "when in fact, they are often just satire, or mocking defamation of that group of famous defamers and its enablers, here at TD."

          You realize that the ranting and satire has, in fact, invoked detractors simply over your tendency to fire the rhetorical shotgun largely at random?

          We have, on TD, a given problem with at least one dedicated troll who loves switching nicknames to defend copyright maximalism and/or applaud law enforcement overreach, not rarely backed by hysterical fits of threats and ghoulish anticipation of TD commenters being assaulted, imprisoned, and/or abused.

          The very second your post resembles one posted by that commenter several TD regulars twitched for the flag button in reflex. Again, that sort of action costs you the audience - and, in the end, the narrative. Even if at the end of the day you end up Knowing Things it does little good if you could, by then, shout it for the rooftops and no one was willing to listen.

          "I give equal credence to scary methodists or lutherans as I do to westboro, because scapegoating the more obvious fanatics like Westboro hides the tyranny of the majorities who are every bit as odious on issues of public policy (for example, privacy, due process, or institutional abuses like prisons, and inaction on liberation, because those religious interests having vested interests in incarcerations.) "

          I don't. Westboro - and sects like Opus Dei or doomsday cults - define themselves by hatred and a casual disregard for human life.

          The more reasonable mild-mannered religious I have less issue with. I don't agree with their views, nor they with mine, but at the end of the day they are likely to abide by democratic rules and unlikely to stop me and those like me from speaking.
          That I have to accept, lest I must see the entire world as an enemy for not sharing my viewpoint.

          "gain, Hanlons is perhaps a useful tool to decide if the Scythian warrior women are /are not the legendary Amazons according to Jerry Falwell, or some other biased pundit..."

          Hrm. Some confusion there we need to sort first;

          Hanlon's Razor: "Never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence."

          Hitchen's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

          "So, we accept the general thrust, via Hanlons razor, that actual malice AND stupidity are involved, but that both are true in that case. "

          Applying both razors we actually see that where a result is met by incompetence, the addition of malice won't make a difference. In fact, Hanlon's razor only fails when there is no incompetence because at that point you have capable malice behind whatever resulting situation was important enough to discuss.

          "So, in counter-terrorism manufacturing, we know that actual malice is present, and stated in literally millions of ways since Patriot Act 1, directed at amorphous, nebulous, and ever-morphing manufactured threats as CVE-founded in neocon ideology..."

          Full stop. See, I watched the exact same history pan out, including both patriot acts and the neocon would-be hegemony. What I saw was nothing more than herd biology and a power grab which ultimately failed when the neocons collapsed like a house of cards. A political movement trying to ride a wave of public hysteria.

          The real issue is the aftermath - an institutionalized reconstruction of government tools aimed at enabling the human instinct for fearmongering and tribalism rather than oppress it.

          There is no great villain scheme or mastermind behind all of that, no group or single nation in power puppetmastering a hundred tinpot empires in the form of alphabet soup agencies. There's just human nature as demonstrated by a thousand power-hungry opportunists lusting for power trips. Witness for instance our current man of the hour - Bill Barr. A man so desperate for power he'll go to any length getting it, and who needs that power to insulate his fragile ego from the possibility that he might be wrong. Is he malicious? I'd say so, but he truly has no agenda other than the fact that owning power over other people gives him a raging boner.

          And sadly there's no shortage of those kind of people.

          "Maybe. But if we add up the comments, some 10-50% of the commenters and comments are clearly partisan. "

          Partisan to what, exactly? Common sense? Political structure? Left? Right? Authoritarian? Liberal? The status quo?

          TD's readership is more often than not decidedly liberal while running the gamut between left and right. "The establishment" otoh, usually indicates the status quo of the world. Something I haven't seen a single commenter here on TD agreeing with much.

          "In fact, that exact group of c-l liberals and socialists has dogmas that are little better than religion, and provably AS BAD..."

          Err. Excuse me? a "liberal" who believes in individual freedom is bad how, exactly? Slander machinery? Prisons?
          I have to - emphatically - disagree. Trolls and perceived trolls do get short shrift and I think I've adequately explained WHY you'd end up categorized as one of those over your earlier commentary.

          "Lastly, you said bring an example, a calm factual commentary on gang stalking, which I initially did here several years ago. "

          Haven't seen the several years ago example, but from what I've seen when you brought up gang stalking around here, I at least read it as, well, to use an analogy;

          You; "The sky is blue. Two clouds, one of which looks like a duck...".
          Me; "...ok."
          You;
          "...because aliens!"
          Me;
          "...wtf did I just read?"*

          We all know, from the OP above and from earlier examples (no-fly lists, terrorist watchlist, various types of convicted criminals lists, offender lists etc) that we have a large bunch of organizations, NGO and Government alike, putting people of perceived categories on lists and registries.

          We know some of those lists - including some lamentably slipshod ones - are shared nationally and internationally.

          We know who ends up on those lists is more often than not determined by blind chance, badly programmed algorithms, and even manual entries made by individual people, under highly subjective circumstances.

          And I'm sure I'm not the only one to draw the connection to medieval witch trials where mere hearsay by the local gossipmonger was enough to see you having a cozy chat with the friendly inquisitor, or the lists created in pre-WW2 germany on the religious and ethnic credentials of the citizenry...and the subsequent use to which those lists were then put.

          Gang stalking - i.e. bullying and ostracism in the modern world of mass communication - is a real enough, verifiable phenomenon.
          A conspiracy surrounding it, not so much. Hanlon's razor again - when there is incompetence, malice or not does not matter. You'll end up on that list if you happened to;
          ...go to the wrong ice cream parlor three times in a week. ...because you were being brown in public in front of the wrong cop.
          ...because you chewed out a MAGA hat wearer.
          ...because you're on Techdirt complaining about gang stalking.
          ...because you're on Techdirt NOT complaining about gang stalking.
          ...because your name contains an "al-" just like Abu Bakr al-Bagdadi.

          That you ALSO end up on the "stop, frisk & harrass"-list because someone from a church, sect, cult, government organization, NGO, trust fund, investment banker, or the local Baker's Guild managed to get your name on it is, in reflection, irrelevant.

          At that point - which is where factual observable reality has us, right now, the hypothetical government conspiracy has become irrelevant and impotent because even if it exists it doesn't do anything you aren't already experiencing.

          So, to answer your question in my own vernacular - do bullies organize an psychopathic groups?
          They certainly do. But there's nothing to be gained from coining a new terminology or trying to link those sociopaths to anything other than ordinary human nature and the existence of social networking over long distances.

          Which brings me to the summary;

          • "OGS denialists, who are all affilliated with establishment institutions (journalism is just one ) and most often their crackpot leadership and actual milutary trained disinfo agents who actually are current and former cops /intel /CIA /NSA /DIA/JTRIG spooks "

            • "OGS victims, who are people who encounter these highly organized groups of sociopaths mentioned above in the linked material. "

          ...that's actually diving headlong into a fortress mentality of you vs the world. Believing that gangs of bullies will include the entirety of law enforcement, NSA, CIA, etc...honestly, at that point you're stating that everyone not WITH you is AGAINST you and naturally end up discredited and alone.

          At that point you are indeed alone against everyone, but mainly because your own actions in forcing a narrative has alienated you.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Neverending, 23 Jan 2020 @ 12:33pm

            So, only now, you say gang stalking is real?

            Well, ok, this could go on forever, b/c its Hegellian dialectic/Fabianism in action.

            I am just not up to it today.

            But, thank you for this acknowledgement many years late that gang stalking is, in fact real, and not a delusion, and I quote you:

            Gang stalking - i.e. bullying and ostracism in the modern world of mass communication - is a real enough, verifiable phenomenon.

            You could havecsaid THAT,a week, a month, or three years ago, but didnt. Instead, you tossed conspiracy theory and,antisemitism and racismall over the place in thatvtime span, never once saying that organized gang stalking is real.

            I guess its just your human nature kicking in, right?

            But still, we differ, because what you describe is cyber-stalking, sans the offline component.

            And that omission, simply because you have no experience with it, is understandable.

            But your absolution of the ADL, and its henchpersons here, not so much.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 24 Jan 2020 @ 2:20am

              Re: So, only now, you say gang stalking is real?

              "You could havecsaid THAT,a week, a month, or three years ago, but didnt. Instead, you tossed conspiracy theory and,antisemitism and racismall over the place in thatvtime span, never once saying that organized gang stalking is real."

              Because even when something is real, the ascribed cause matters.

              Gang stalking consists of someone, anyone pointing out a victim and sufficient numbers of passing piranha fish picking up the blood in the water.

              Your assertion there's a "plan" behind these gangs of bullies is akin to stating that thunder is caused by the hittites failing to please the gods, or thor smiting trolls with his banhammer.

              You are looking for a pattern in vast, sprawling multinational conspiracies ending up in cyberbullies stalking people on and offline when the truth is, like gamersgate showed, that all you need to do is piss off enough people - none of which need to be related - anywhere.

              "But your absolution of the ADL, and its henchpersons here, not so much."

              And that, right there, is your problem. I'm not really sure what your specific beef with the ADL is, but I do know that if Sarkeesian can attract an international following of hatred off and online for trying to be a woman gamer then anyone using inflammatory or accusatory language visavi israel is going to be in for it once the trolls gather.

              You are, in effect, being the architect of the forces opposing you by the very language and terminology you've seen fit to use.

              There are, as I stated numerous times, serious issues with both how Israel acts and the ADL's broad-spectrum smearing of anyone criticizing israel as an "anti-semite". Even israeli newspapers like Haaretz acknowledge that. We certainly have problems when someone like Avigdor Lieberman can say, from an official knesset/ministry position, that a western country should tellk it's press what it can and can not print. There's certainly an issue with the west bank settlement effort.

              But that doesn't mean the ADL governs or influences every alphabet soup agency in the US which you more than just imply. And when that's how your language pans out, you get the response of "anti-semite" because that's how you end up sounding.

              Put specific names on your grievances which stop short of entire nationalities and you'll probably find a more receptive audience.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2020 @ 10:46am

                Re: Re: So, only now, you say gang stalking is real?

                Well, there are MANY highly organized gangs of institution affilliated psychos out there, and they do, in fact collaborate, starting with intel sharing environment.

                Thats,documented fact, anywherecyou look in MSM, so I dont know how you could infer it does not exist.

                And , its just batshit insane how victims of institutional bullies are constantly asked dude, whats,Your problem with those nice people

                (these people https://www.baystatebanner.com/2020/01/02/protest-targets-israels-police-training-program/ )

                and the victim, pointing at that ten thousand pound herd of pigs in the middle of the living room, as bystanders go, tsk, tsk , and wag their heads.

                I call it the Guantanamo Effect, where we see that men who were kidnapped, tortured, drugged, and raped at Guantanamo are then asked, dude, why are you so angry?

                From the in the link above:

                *“Several dozen activists last week marched from the Boston Common to the headquarters of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) to protest the Jewish.... group’s funding of exchange programs in which local police departments receive training from the Israeli Defense Force on crowd control, counterterrorism and other military tactics.

                The Dec. 23 demonstration was led by the Boston chapter of the group.....members are opposed to what they say are apartheid policies in Israel that relegate Muslims, Christians and others who are not of Jewish ancestry to second-class status.

                “It’s noteworthy that while Israel is oppressing Palestinians through more than 60 discriminatory laws, they’re also militarizing U.S. police departments,” JVP member Willie Burnley Jr. told the Banner. “As a black person, I’m very concerned about police violence. To hear that Israel is pushing military tactics on local police is of concern to me.”*

                I mean, theres that, SDM.

                I first encountered them in thecearly 1990s, around the time they were detting the trend with spying on activists.

                I later encountered them as,they slipped a racist flier under my newsroom door, just after I participated in a peace march.

                Later, they, and their hench persons made themselves more obvious. But they are certainly not the only shirbags who do this, they are just the ones, I met, identified, and later wrote about.

                So, re: that doesn't mean the ADL governs or influences every alphabet soup agency in the US

                Every might be a stretch, but most is more accurate, and “influences local sherrifs departments that are prone to graft ” and influence would be outrageously correct.

                In fact, I put a thousand dollars in reward money out there for any journalist who is willing to correlate the rise of extremist policing via sherrifs departments and task farces, and trips to Israel, and then, a rise in complaints of gang stalking within those counties, as we see in Pennsylvania.

                https://philadelphia.adl.org/local-law-enforcement-chiefs-return-from-elite-adl-training-in-israel/

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        The missin Post, Redeux, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:20pm

        Re: Re: re: Online mobbing TD

        Theres a lot you said, but lets start with sysadmins: they should shoot themselves in the face if they are collaborating with the FBI Infragard programtargeting pure speech and violating the populace by moderating discourse, and escalating events.

        Thats not their job, and if they are to dull, or otherwise too stupid to comprehend what they read -nuance, particularly, yet still flaggin away, well, no biscuits.

        Then, re: bhull, and others like him(and if you are reading, hull, understand what you have perhaps unwittingly participated in ):

        I weighed in here a few weeks ago to demonstrate how online profiling works, and had an unexpected success, bhull,(and you, too, SDM conceding that you are white ).

        I:

        • analysed bhulls speech patterns, tone trolling, literalistic interpretations of reality, and lack of depth or awareness on topics he claimed to speak for, and literally diagnosed him as Aspergers Syndrome /autistic.

        • bhull later conceded that he is in fact, diagnosed as that.

        I later accused you of being lily white based upon your conceptual framework, and you also conceded that you are in fact, white.

        And so, for the purpose of my thesis - that

        online profiling is, junk science with preventable, and disastrous effects

        as we see in cases of mass shooters, I had to first demonstrate that actual profiling can be accurate to an extremely limited degree, as Bhull and yourself both conceded that point, with him conceding my diagnoses as correct, and you, admitting you are white.

        So, online profiling has,a limited accuracy. But is that who you really are? Does that make online profiling into science? And worse, what if I was a security contractor whose salary /bonuses depended from manufactured terrorism?

        Do you want a,world where these guys profiles affect your life?

        Now, lets go deeper:

        What if I apply punitive psychologywith law enforcement data, and then, smears written.in some shitbag FBI /DHS /DIA /USAFOSI manila envelope, and those smears based upon illegal, warrantless surveillance of your internet use?

        I will tell you whats worse:

        Whatever organizations do exactly what I do, do NOT stop there, not by a longshot.

        No - many organizations /alphabet agencies /and the f@cking Anti Defamation League -who Mike Masnik himself has quoted from verbatim and boilerplate- these fuckers go the Nth degree further than I did in my relatively benign.psychological operation, by then utilizing Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP )profiles, Fusion Centers, ALPR plate readers, retired cops in LEIUs, and community policing to then target these people offline too.

        THAT mechanism, SDM, is not merely police corruption as usual. THAT mechanism is a due process and civil liberty violating, living nightmare, and quite similar to what happened during the Palestinian Exodus of 1948 too.

        SDM, the ADL is deploying military /agency derived psychological operations on citizens, via Moonshot CVE, and those citizens labeled by poneroligists as bad , that have somehow ended up in its draconian slavers net, with.the great irony that white (Jewish ) supremacists are somehow fighting white supremacy. I hope you can find the humor in that catch 22
        http://moonshotcve.com/

        The ADL is sending SWAT teams to train in constitution -free zones of oppression, where, as one recent pro -Israel death squad AC,shitbag here at TD was allowed to post links to a .22 calibre rifle that is used in Israel to kneecap activists. Then, those foreign spies come here, work in security and policing, and target US dissidents too, often as US SWAT teams collude in these events.

        Most notably, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Kikuyu, the Arapahoe, or the Yanomamo tribes of the Amazon are, NOT doing these things here on US soil.

        So, I could go on, but what it is that I am doing: I am deploying the exact tools, methodologies, and junk science of online profiling at the internet and its forums that routinely, and demonstrably does that to the Other.

        And then, hoping that rational people, like yourself perhaps, will take a stand against it.

        I will now reread your pist, and reply further.

        Theres a lot you said, but lets start with sysadmins: they should shoot themselves in the face if they are collaborating with the FBI Infragard programtargeting pure speech and violating the populace by moderating discourse, and escalating events.

        Thats not their job, and if they are to dull, or otherwise too stupid to comprehend what they read -nuance, particularly, yet still flaggin away, well, no biscuits.

        Then, re: bhull, and others like him(and if you are reading, hull, understand what you have perhaps unwittingly participated in ):

        I weighed in here a few weeks ago to demonstrate how online profiling works, and had an unexpected success, bhull,(and you, too, SDM conceding that you are white ).

        I:

        • analysed bhulls speech patterns, tone trolling, literalistic interpretations of reality, and lack of depth or awareness on topics he claimed to speak for, and literally diagnosed him as Aspergers Syndrome /autistic.

        • bhull later conceded that he is in fact, diagnosed as that.

        I later accused you of being lily white based upon your conceptual framework, and you also conceded that you are in fact, white.

        And so, for the purpose of my thesis - that

        online profiling is, junk science with preventable, and disastrous effects

        as we see in cases of mass shooters, I had to first demonstrate that actual profiling can be accurate to an extremely limited degree, as Bhull and yourself both conceded that point, with him conceding my diagnoses as correct, and you, admitting you are white.

        So, online profiling has,a limited accuracy. But is that who you really are? Does that make online profiling into science? And worse, what if I was a security contractor whose salary /bonuses depended from manufactured terrorism?

        Do you want a,world where these guys profiles affect your life?

        Now, lets go deeper:

        What if I apply punitive psychologywith law enforcement data, and then, smears written.in some shitbag FBI /DHS /DIA /USAFOSI manila envelope, and those smears based upon illegal, warrantless surveillance of your internet use?

        I will tell you whats worse:

        Whatever organizations do exactly what I do, do NOT stop there, not by a longshot.

        No - many organizations /alphabet agencies /and the f@cking Anti Defamation League -who Mike Masnik himself has quoted from verbatim and boilerplate- these fuckers go the Nth degree further than I did in my relatively benign.psychological operation, by then utilizing Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP )profiles, Fusion Centers, ALPR plate readers, retired cops in LEIUs, and community policing to then target these people offline too.

        THAT mechanism, SDM, is not merely police corruption as usual. THAT mechanism is a due process and civil liberty violating, living nightmare, and quite similar to what happened during the Palestinian Exodus of 1948 too.

        SDM, the ADL is deploying military /agency derived psychological operations on citizens, via Moonshot CVE, and those citizens labeled by poneroligists as bad , that have somehow ended up in its draconian slavers net, with.the great irony that white (Jewish ) supremacists are somehow fighting white supremacy. I hope you can find the humor in that catch 22
        http://moonshotcve.com/

        The ADL is sending SWAT teams to train in constitution -free zones of oppression, where, as one recent pro -Israel death squad AC,shitbag here at TD was allowed to post links to a .22 calibre rifle that is used in Israel to kneecap activists. Then, those foreign spies come here, work in security and policing, and target US dissidents too, often as US SWAT teams collude in these events.

        Most notably, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Kikuyu, the Arapahoe, or the Yanomamo tribes of the Amazon are, NOT doing these things here on US soil.

        So, I could go on, but what it is that I am doing: I am deploying the exact tools, methodologies, and junk science of online profiling at the internet and its forums that routinely, and demonstrably does that to the Other.

        And then, hoping that rational people, like yourself perhaps, will take a stand against it.

        I will now reread your post, and reply further.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Save Squad 8200 Foundation, 20 Jan 2020 @ 10:35am

    We gotta shut this guy down, spare no costs! He is clearly worse than Ei...EEEIII....EiiiiiEichmann!

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-student-sent-home-after-exposing-buttocks-at-nazi-death-camp/

    Signed -
    Little Eichmanns

    This blogvertisement is an endorsement of Elizabeth Warren for President in 2020!®

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    HAHAHA, 21 Jan 2020 @ 12:03pm

    my epic reasoned response to you went DIRECTLY to moderation.

    Classic TD mods tone trolling/sysadmin/ gatekeeper mobbing, based on IP blocking.

    Who will save the activists who use VPNs?

    Dont ask Techdirt, lol.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 10:08pm

      Re:

      My longer posts tend to go into moderation, too, especially if they contain any hyperlinks. It can take a few days to clear, but you really should be more patient about it.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Attn Genl Barr, 21 Jan 2020 @ 12:21pm

    re: SCOTUS Stacking

    Yeah, sure.

    A court stacked with whacky Catholics and jews...not a single atheist.

    Sure, somethings wrong with your definition of establishment, but I cant quite peg it.

    Maybe, have TDs sysadmins #Israelharder

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:30am

      Re: re: SCOTUS Stacking

      " Yeah, sure. A court stacked with whacky Catholics and jews...not a single atheist. Sure, somethings wrong with your definition of establishment, but I cant quite peg it. Maybe, have TDs sysadmins #Israelharder"

      A century ago it didn't contain any jews either, so we can just hope that in future it will contain atheists or at least agnostics.

      Still, it IS a fact that SCOTUS was what came up with Roe vs Wade which flies in the face of the US religious fanatics so it's fairly obvious that it has, more often than not, taken its job more seriously than the perceived religious obligations of its members.

      Remains to be seen how that will play out now that trump has stacked the odds, breaking the deadlock, and foisted whatever candidate the alt-right wanted into the ring.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Gary Webb More, 22 Jan 2020 @ 9:09am

        Re: Re: re: SCOTUS Stacking

        I no longer trust the western left either, as they are actually a binary minded faux -left, not a real left at all.

        Roe has no real meaning to me either anymore, as that faux-left used it to force low income and minority males into debt bondage, and the prisons.

        And all of that, as new conservative religionists gain power in the US indicates that ROE was just a stop gap for certain vested interests to own the machinery of their generation and its profits , with uncertain effect on the future.

        There will never be an atheist/secularist /humanist on the court, because Abrahamic systems are designed specifically to destroy us.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 10:06pm

          Re: Re: Re: re: SCOTUS Stacking

          I am trying to figure out how Roe v. Wade could possibly be construed as being capable of being used to “force low income and minority males into debt bondage, and the prisons.” I mean, doesn’t allowing abortion reduce males having to pay child support or whatever?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        The missing Post Reflux, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:24pm

        Re: Re: re: SCOTUS Stacking

        I have tried five times to rebut your charges above, in re: #antishemitiscataclysmyticisms, but each time, for some reason which I have not yet hacked, TDs mods will not allow it to go through.

        Please observe my next performance, below.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Kill All White People, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:25pm

    Just kill them, at every opportunity.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Kill All Black People, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:26pm

    At every opportunity

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Kill Your Television, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:27pm

    At every chance you get

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    I am Coming to Kill Your TV, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:28pm

    I,will KILL your tv tonight

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Kill, kill, kill, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:29pm

    I,am carrying a butterknife NOW. I am COMING TO KILL YOURE TELEVISION RIGHT NOW! IN FIVE MINUTES! AT YOUR HOUSE, NOW.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Now, watch, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:35pm

    I repost this, for posterity.

    Lets talk about free speech:

    Therdes a lot you said..., but lets start with sysadmins: they should ...shoot thems....elves in the.... face if they are collab orating with the FBI... Infragard programtargeting pure speech and violating the populace by moderating discourse, and escalating... events.

    Thats not their job, and if they are to dull, or otherwise too stupid to com prehend... what they read -nuance, particularly, yet still flaggin away, well, no biscuits.

    Then, re...: bhull, and others like him(and if you are reading, hull, understand what you have perhaps unwittingly participated in ):

    I weighed in he re a few weeks ago to demonstrate how online profiling works, and had an unexpected success, b....hull,(and you, too, SDM conceding that you are white ).

    I:

    • analysed b....hulls speech patterns, tone trolling, literalistic interpretations of reality, and lack of depth or awareness on topics he claimed to speak for, and li....terally diagnosed him as Asperger...s Syndrome /autistic.

    • bhull.... later conceded that he is in fact, diagnosed as that.

    I later...../ll accused you of being lily white based upon your conce ptual framework, and you also conceded that you are in fact, wh ite.

    And so, for the purpose of my thesis - that

    online profiling is, junk science with preventable, and disastrous effects

    as we see in cases of mass shooters, I had to first demonstrate that actu/al profiling can be accu rate to an extremely limited degree, as Bhull and yourself both conceded that point, with him c/oncedi ng my diagnoses as correct, and you, admitting you are white.

    So,/ online profiling has,a limited accuracy. But is tha t who you really are? Does that make online profiling into science? And worse, what if I was a security contractor whose salary /bon/uses depended from manufactured terrorism?

    Do you want a,world where these guys profiles affect your life?

    Now, lets go /deeper:

    What if I apply punitive psychologywith law e*nforcement data, and then, smears written.in some shitbag FBI /DHS /DIA /USAFOSI manila e?nvelope, and those smears based upon illegal, warrantless surveillance of your internet use?

    I will tell you whats worse:

    Whatever organizations do exa~ctly what I do, do NOT stop there, not by a longshot.

    No - many organizations /alphabet agencies /and the f@cking Anti Defamation League -who Mike Ma/snik himself has quoted from verbatim and boilerplate- these fuc/kers go the Nth degree further than I did in my relatively benign psycholo/gical operation, by then utilizing Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP )profiles, Fusion Centers, ALPR plate readers, retired cops i/n LEIUs, and community policing to then target these people offline too.

    THAT mechanism, SDM, is not merely police corruption as usual. THA!T mechanism is a due process and civil liberty violating, living nightmare, and quite similar to what happened during the Pales?tinian Exodus of 1948 too.

    SDM, the ADL is deploying military /agency derived psychological operations on citizens, via Moonshot CVE, and those citizens labeled by pon,erologists as bad , that have somehow ended up in its draconian slavers net, with.the great irony that white (Jewish ) supremacists are somehow fighting white supremacy*. I hope you can find the humor i%n that catch 22
    http://moonshotcve.com/

    The A_DL is sending SWAT teams to train in co@nstitution -free zones of oppression, where, as one recent pro -Israel death squad AC,shitbag here at TD was allowed to post links to a .22 calibre rifle that is used in Israel to kneecap activists. Then, those foreign spies come here, work in security and policing, and target US dissidents too, often as US SWAT teams collude in these events.

    Most notably, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Kikuyu, the Arapahoe, or the Yanomamo tribes of the Amazon are, NOT doing these things here on US soil.

    So, I could go on, but what it is that I am doing: I am deploying the exact tools, methodologies, and junk science of online profiling at the intb ernet and its forums that routinely, and demo2nstrably does that to the Other.

    And then, hoping that rational people, like yourself perhaps, will take a stand against it.

    I will now reread your post #, and reply further.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Spellin Errers, 22 Jan 2020 @ 1:40pm

      Re:

      The post above was submitted here six times, under various nyms, over various networks, using various IPs, and each time, it was moderated out of existence.
      I screencapped the entire exchange.

      I had to alter the spelling, punctuation, syntax, and actually add errors and mis -spellings in order to bypass,TDs mods.

      Please tell me what I said there that is offensive, innapropriate, or incorrect.
      But hopefully, only ONE reader will get the message.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 11:11pm

        Re: Re:

        Please tell me what I said there that is offensive, innapropriate, or incorrect.

        Well, there’s this:

        but lets start with sysadmins: they should ...shoot thems....elves in the.... face

        I believe that I have warned you on multiple occasions about that sort of talk.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Elves, 28 Jan 2020 @ 3:52pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Shoot thems elves, ay? !

          Im telling SANTA! !! boohoohoohoo!

          hits insightful tone deaf button to elect bhull King for a Day,

          slips #speechpolice warning ticket into circular file, checks rearview mirror, notes the approach of a free speech steamroller, and drives to nearest Autism Awareness shelter to donate

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 10:02pm

      Re:

      Again, I don’t think you understand what most of what you’re talking about actually means. Like tone trolling.

      The only times I discussed tone was to tell you to stop telling people to kill themselves or that they’re better off dead. And that has nothing to do with autism.

      Also, it sounds to me like your online profiling was successful, which kinda goes against your thesis that online profiling is junk science.

      But yeah, you figured out I had autism. Whoop-de-freakin’-doo. I wasn’t exactly trying to hide it. However, you then seemed to draw a number of conclusions based upon that that were not true nor connected to autism.

      Now, online profiling can absolutely be dangerous. I’m still not seeing evidence of it being used by the specific entities you mention in the manner you claim, but yes, online profiling is absolutely dangerous. Does that please you at all?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    For the Record, 23 Jan 2020 @ 2:37pm

    TDs mod only allowed my post(s) up there DAYS after I posted them, and then, after I challenged that mod to allow the initial post, wherein that mod allowed many of them.

    I did that, to prove a point about how (political moderation) mods themselves do not have clean hands, or keyboardswhen it comes to crafting narratives, or profiles of commenters.

    And, sadly, how that contributes to radicalization online.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      bhull242 (profile), 26 Jan 2020 @ 9:50pm

      Re:

      Uhhh, that happens to us, too. That’s just automated systems at work. It’s weird, but not unusual or suspicious. I’ve had my own posts held for moderation for days as well. So has toom, I think.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ...Agrogsvating, 28 Jan 2020 @ 7:17pm

    ok

    Yup. And several thousand other agencies/NGOs, etc.

    I am merely demonstrating thevmechanism here, sketching out what it.looks like in practice, and hoping to provoke others to ask better questions about online forums, and those who use them.

    But in your case, hopefully you will challenge your own assumptions about “people” online, and even take a look at your rules of civil discourse, versus their derailing and so on.

    Bots, and intel or military agency trolls ARE NOT GENUINE, MORAL,OR HONEST PEOPLE, by any standard or by the common definition of online commenter, and have zero interest or goal towards that end.

    And as such, Im trying to do my best to raise awareness of this non-coincidental intersection between open discourse online, and those who are destroying it

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      bhull242 (profile), 28 Jan 2020 @ 8:54pm

      Re: ok

      Well, whatever your intentions, I can’t say I approve of your methods. But, fine. I’m willing to let bygones be bygones, I suppose. You have given me some things to consider; I don’t know that you’ll approve of my eventual conclusion, but hey, the whole goal was to provoke closer inspection, right?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ...Agrogsvating, 29 Jan 2020 @ 6:26am

    Exactly. Go make a million bucks from the free research. Who cares about my approval? You have your own goals.

    But dont forget to add spice, like ling term critic of religion-in-psychology, Dr. Seth Farber, PhD. who has taken on the Israeli rabbinate, and other ultra-right wing establishment fantatics and neo-Augustinians (and note that Farber is a peace activist, a dissident psychologist, and supported in his various critiques by none other that Thomas Szasz, and Kate Millet)

    About Dr. Seth Farber:

    “His last book was published in 2012,The Spiritual Gift of Madness:The Failure of Psychiatry and the Rise of the Mad Pride Movement. (The Foreword is written by internationally renowned writer, feminist and human rights advocate Kate Millett, author of Sexual Politics and The Loony Bin Trip.)

    Dr Farber has had five books published, including a book on Jewish critics of Israel, and numerous essays and articles. A critic of the mental health system, he has been a guest on many television and radio shows. His first book Madness, Heresy and the Rumor of Angels: The Revolt Against the Mental Health System (Open Court, Chicago, 1993) contained a foreword by Thomas Szasz.”

    http://www.sethhfarber.com/farber_essay__response_to_new_york_times__2016__ti_letter_12918 0.htm

    “The Psychiatric Metanarrative, Targeted Individuals, and the Deep State: A Response to The New York Times

    by Seth H. Farber, Ph.D

    The Corporate Media and Psychiatry: Veiling the Human Rights Violations of the Deep State
    Advancing the Psychiatric Metanarrative, Neutralizing Deep State Critics
    The Psychiatric Fantasy System and the Battle Against Non-Conformity
    The Psychiatric Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex
    The Deep State on Trial
    The CIA Assassination of Its Own Agent — Protecting Whose Security?
    Whistleblowers Post 9/11
    TIs and No-Touch Torture
    Neuroweaponry and Classified Military Research
    Discussion of the New York Times Article About TIs Based on the Psychiatric Metanarrative
    The CEP and the Power of the Ethically Guided Minority”

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    diane, 12 Jun 2020 @ 11:42am

    Acting, fraud mockery for revenge set ups!

    That's not all we have a group who are deliberately going on internet and watching certain people through their TV sets and computers and even anywhere they go, where they work also.. what they read or by to read...and saying they did illegal acts with their bodies on their computers also using your stolen IP number saying they witnessed you doing that activity and it was an insulting activity and now it was found it was acting with face makeup, video editing with your face on other peoples bodies and mocking your cloths or wearing same cloths on home made video representing a mocking of you.. that certain person... with your copied live voice and movement and look alike feature for revenge terrorism and to set you up as a sex offender or listing you on their own sex offender group..and then telling that to their groups and all over the county where ever and police, state , lawyers and you county court has no idea of their revenge activity and they say themselves you are not a known sex offender later.. Police tell you someone is trying to set you up..! T That means they are stalking you to set you up and to ruin friendships, family and your future job interests maybe even reputation>? What laws are there to stop this activity!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Sep 2020 @ 8:59am

    so called gangstalking is a slow kill harassment and discrediting program within a kill program designed to destroy the target by any means. the targeted person may have been a targeted person and profiled since they were a child or teenager and even since birth without being aware of it because of a close relative.
    You will have been set up or framed for something by someone who is a family member of a mason cop or someone in the intelligence community maybe connected to the housing welfare benefits department
    the false information may also be classified or shared informally through council housing department administration with some kind of community notification about the targeted individual, mason cops or IC connected persons or CIs may be involved and the consequences are severe from the start
    as a targeted person might find themselves kicked out of their house and fired from their jobs over and over no plausable reason is given, when the persons travels to another city or district the information is shared or Leaked again and the same thing happens it gets worse over the years and decades

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2020 @ 6:23am

    the origin of so called gangstalking is not what most people imagine it is though it is real and the harassment methods described by most victims all over the internet are common to myself and all victims, it lasts for years even 30 or 40+ years as info build up more and more in the databases slowly over it gangstalking is deliberate profiling and false intel/info to get you targeted because your previous known behavior fell below a criminal Level worth prosecuting is the reason you are now so called gangstalked by a particular indivual/s and occasional groups, it is started by a particular cop/detective/housing authority admin whoever it is someone connected to power, and a spouse or close relative of, these people are in a cult could be satanism and secret societies, the actual so called gangstalking starts because non actionable intelligence and information about you and me is put on a police database and possibly special branch or council housing watchlist, the info profiles you in a very bad light as a pedo or thief etc therefore a risk to others, you are not told about it, this information is then shared with your social worker, headmaster, and several teachers which further leaks watered down to a handful of pupils then you will be targeted maybe at least once a week by occasional violent bullying at school in the early stages it happens occaionally at home,work,school,ocasionaly a public place (but not everywhere yet ) soon after you Leave school you get set up by a relative of or someone connected to power this isnt necessarily to get you arrested but so that they can put more targeting information on the PNC and maybe another unknown database, they share that new info about you with a specific police person on the national or Local police database which makes the information ''official'' to enable more targeting, the info was spread by a red squads members and gossiped and whispered quickly to a few people who are around you in everyday Life and they ask you questions about it!
    When you travel to another region or city in another part of the country a just a few persons who study live or work with you will be told the false info i got targeted with harassment even sometimes violence,
    Later set up/framing underage honeytrap, i did nothing but they come after you physically so sooner rather than later you have to move again, If you ever commit or are suspected of a serious crime in the future, the info is shared
    possibly by a police detective with your employers who may fire you on the spot in a passive aggressive/hostile manner without a reason, you may lose your home in the same manner and without reason, one of my neigbours mentioned they know a police detective, and harass you somewhat
    with directed conversation, mentioning your name while they Lie about you while conversing with their freind or family member, they talk deliberatly just a little bit louder to make sure you hear through the wall/outside your door making it seem natural directed conversation can happen in passing on the street but sometimes this is media feedback,
    i was fired on the spot in 3 different jobs in a passive aggressive hostile manner without any reason given, and this this is just for starters, If later you are both a suspected political blacklisted at the same time the suspect of an unrelated criminal investigation then you are totally FCKD! they will then steal your personal document Pii, and ID or passport, then you need to try get the intel deleted from databases or else you WILL be set up for a serious crime
    depending on the intel (they shouldnt have about you) they will set you on a sexual charge by getting a woman to rub up against you in a public place wwhile you are unsuspectingly waiting for a bus or train, they get one of their a women to gently bump/rub up against you for few seconds or push you into a woman from behind so you automatically put your hands out, these unlawful/illegal techniques, sent an informant when i arrived late at home one night, he had hidden in a Bush 5 meters away close enough to ID me, the next day their was a suspicious death in the early hours of the night, disturbing sounds were heard, 15 metres away the body was still there as as i Left the house this group was approaching and asked me if i was connected to the death when they might have been the ones involved in it! obviously it wasnt a coincidence they were passing at 7.30am it obviously to provide circumstantial evidence i was there, everything they do is around you
    in your face, unfortunatly i didnt record 24/7 and keep copies of the recording
    inc one for the police, iyes they can frame you for murder or robbery even terror related offences by planting your stolen passport or personal document with rucksack at the scene of a
    fake bombing scene aka"training exercise''
    and all this false intelligence is shared across borders.
    after this i knew something is going wrong in the system
    I am pretty good with faces when someone doesnt seem right, and i recognized this one same guy same day i arrived in this particular city in the exact same place he was standing when i had visited several years earlier,
    id watched him for a minute and walked off and thought is possibly an informant/snitch, so i asked him not expecting much of a response i asked "what is this'' he knew instantly what i was talking about, his instantly replyed, its a kill program, i was speechless for a few seconds, before i could speak again he added, ''its to wipe people off the face of the earth" slight 2 seconds pause then asked me "how do you know about it'?
    this is the truth about so called gangstalking!
    war on Drugs
    gangs databases
    Fake war on terror
    a risk to females etc etc

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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