Lawsuit: Boston PD's 'Gang Database' Says People Who Wear Nikes And Have Been Beat Up By Gang Members Are 'Gang Associates'

from the guilty-until-negatives-proven dept

The Chinese government uses a number of measures to keep tabs on citizens. One is what's known as a "citizen score" -- a compilation of all the good/bad habits the government can track that determines whether a person should be viewed as a contributor to society or someone the government should take out of circulation.

We do the same thing here in the US. Credit scores determine who gets to live where and what vehicle they can own. It also can affect employment opportunities. This version of a "citizen score" is compiled by private parties who have access to information Americans are given no choice in relinquishing.

But the government also uses point-based systems to determine what kind of citizen you are: one of the good OK guys or possible a menace II to society. The ACLU is currently suing the Boston Police Department over its ad hoc "citizen score." The BPD adds and subtracts points to add and (possibly?) subtract people from its "gang database." Things citizens actively do -- and even things they passively don't -- can put them on this watchlist.

From the ACLU's public records lawsuit [PDF]:

Under the point system, a person is designated as a "Gang Associate" if he is assessed six or more points, and a "Gang Member" if he is assessed ten or more points. See Exhibit A, Boston Police Department Rules and Procedures Rule 335.

The point system makes it possible to designate someone a Gang Associate or Gang Member without any allegation that he engaged in violence or criminal activity.

An individual may be assessed eight points for being the victim of gang-related violence.

Yes, you read that right: Boston residents magically become "Gang Associates" if they're shot at by gang members. Or carjacked. Or mugged. If this happens twice, it appears they'll be upgraded to "Gang Member" thanks to their inability to avoid being victimized by gang members.

There's more to the list -- things that assure plenty of other non-gang members will be treated like gang members by cops relying on this ridiculously-compiled database.

An individual may be assessed two points for each instance in which he is seen with an alleged gang member or associate, even in a photograph, and even if that alleged gang member or associate is a classmate, neighbor, or family member.

An individual may be assessed four points for each instance in which a police report describes him to have been "[w]alking, eating, recreating, communicating, or otherwise associating with" a gang member; for making a hand gesture believed to be a gang sign; and for wearing clothing that police deem to be gang-related.

Going to school that gang members attend: that's going to cost you. Being even distantly related to gang members? That's a few points.

If it wasn't all ridiculous enough already, here's the best part: cops can use calling a person a gang member to rack up points on the gangland score.

Other factors the BPD considers are circular. For example, an individual may be assessed eight points if another law enforcement agency determines he is a gang member, without regard to the evidence or criteria used, or nine points for being in possession of court or "investigative documents" that label him a gang member.

If a Boston resident is served with a summons from another law enforcement agency and it happens to say something about "suspected gang member" on them, that's nine points: "Gang Associate." If the documents say this designation was based on some sort of mystery database, that's 17 points and the full "Gang Member" designation with points to spare.

The ACLU's lawsuit is seeking a decision forcing the BPD to turn over documents on its gang database so the citizens affected by it can see what's being used to treat them as criminals, even when they haven't officially been accused of anything. As the suit notes, these designations -- based on bad/circular reasoning -- routinely ensnare people who've never been arrested, much less suspected of criminal activity. And yet, there they are, listed as associates or gang members in a database police officers have access to when making stops.

Just getting dressed in the morning is enough to turn someone's life upside down. The lawsuit points out the BPD has designated things like Chicago Bulls caps and Nike sneakers to be "gang apparel." Officers routinely surveil youths at parks, schools, and recreation centers -- places they're sure to see people wearing NBA merchandise and Nike shoes. And, because gang members are also human beings, they'll frequent public places to use those facilities, putting everyone else in the same location in danger of being deemed "gang associates."

The problems aren't just local. ICE has access to the BPD's database and makes deportation decisions based on this extremely faulty info.

The lawsuit pits the ACLU against the state with the most public-unfriendly public records laws in the nation. Overcoming the dozens of exemptions the BPD can use isn't going to be easy. Hopefully, though, the court will see the public interest outweighs the built-in excuses provided by the state's terrible laws and force the department to turn over the requested documents.


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  • icon
    DB (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 3:47am

    I recall a few decades ago that the fascist stereotype (e.g. Nazi, Soviet) was the inspector on the train say "Papers please". Now we have the same thing with the TSA. We seem oblivious that freedom to travel without identifying ourselves to the government was one of the key ways we distinguished ourselves from totalitarian regimes.

    The Chinese "citizen scores" seem similarly oppressive, but the ACLU points out that we are doing even worse under a different name.

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  • identicon
    Shane Gang, 4 Dec 2018 @ 3:49am

    So the BPD are "ganging" up on the public now?

    That's got to be worth 17 points.

    See also:

    arrange (electrical devices or machines) together to work in coordination.
    "adjacent faders can be ganged for common manipulation"

    Don' be no DJ if yo's gonna wear yo Nikes, bruh!

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    • icon
      Bergman (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 4:53pm

      Re: So the BPD are "ganging" up on the public now?

      I wonder how often an officer booking an arrested suspect is photographed 'in the company' of gang members by the security cameras? I wonder how many cops are fans of NBA teams or wear Nikes?

      Oh, but wait -- they're cops so they're special.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 4:18am

    This exists solely to classify everyone in Roxbury, Dorchester and Mattapan as either a gang associate or gang member plain and simple.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 5:32am

      Re:

      I remember Roxbury and Mattapan as very Black and Dorchester as very Irish (many illegal immigrants) with a large underground economy that the government must have given at least tacit consent to as it was far too big not to notice. Probably much different now. Black and Latino communities were the only ones mentioned in the ACLU report though.

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    • identicon
      OGquaker, 4 Dec 2018 @ 3:59pm

      Re: 'Gangs' & undervalued housing stock

      'Gang' news for years was on the last page of the newspaper, an embarrassment to the LAPD. Then, 3 decades ago Gangs secured massive increases in LAPD budgets and moved to the 3ed page. This killed property costs for realestate vultures: NINE signs were in this ONE block last month: "Trouble? CASH for your house". With property tax (Prop-13), rolling housing over to new buyers is now paramount for the city.

      Black neighbors that bought in the 1970's are not paying a Bank or more than a $1k a year in taxes to live in these one-hundred year old Craftsman homes; they haul my friends to rest homes screaming and roll their houses. local 'Gang Injunctions' make a felony of 3 persons seen on a sidewalk together, 'Gang lists' are IMPOSSIBLE to get off of, traffic tickets have a check box fer 'Gang', ANY Black patrolmen were removed from LAPD cars in this area 10 years ago, replaced by Latino officers, Spanish and Asian are the new buyers and Wall Street is buying houses by the thousands. I guess Nero or the April, 1992 burning of this city were not effective enough in gutting home prices, Gang Injunctions are more effective.

      P.S. The burn areas of 1992 fit the City's General Zoning Plan like a glove, an insurance underwriter told me it was 70% owner-arson. The locals hated Sammy's Camera on Melrose;)

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      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

        Re: Re: 'Gangs' & undervalued housing stock

        Excellent and incredibly insightful comment, OGquaker.

        You are a rare breath of fact here in the heavily “deplatforming” oriented Occupied Progressive Territory of Techdirts Cass Sunstein/neocon-mediated comments section.

        There are documented links between organized gang stalking and real estate, as well as how police manipulate both community members, and gang members alike to profit from real estate.

        And, your analysis of how LAPD manipulates racial categories, and gang members to occlude insight into this issue is spot on.

        Lastly, one source tells me that police, fire and public sector unions pension funds drive much of the corruption/arson/red-lining/ gang stalking that we see all over America today.

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  • identicon
    Michael, 4 Dec 2018 @ 4:20am

    Based on this, every parole officer is clearly a gang leader/organizer. These human-recruiting centers are causing all kinds of havoc and they should all be locked up.

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  • icon
    wshuff (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 4:20am

    Great. I just read this article so what’s that? Six points?

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  • icon
    Narcissus (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 4:47am

    That was so stupid it made me laugh. To fill out the bingo card they should've added "being in possession of superfluous melanin" or "speaking Spanish" as 10 point criteria.

    However, at this point it would probably be easier if they just added everybody to the database. Seeing that basically existing will already net you enough points to get into it.

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    • icon
      That Anonymous Coward (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 5:37am

      Re:

      And that really is the point, we have evidence you have gang ties and when we tell the Judge you are going away for much longer & part of a criminal conspiracy... you better take the deal.

      Cops get applauded by the citizens, that they are abusing, for getting gang members off the street... I mean its in an offical database that they don't want to reveal all the details of... gotta wonder what they are hiding.

      I wonder what would happen if someone had the criteria and sat outside a station... they wear colors to identify each other, they make hand signs, and they sure as hell act as a pack...

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 5:03am

    how about a secret SPLC-type list for gangs?

    If the Boston police had been smart, they would have out-sourced the gang database to some private nonprofit group. Let's keep in mind that many police forces and Federal agencies make regular use of the ADL and SPLC lists of "bad people" as well as their training and education programs. Then police agencies can not only point their fingers somewhere else when asked, taxpayers can save money by not having to cough up to multimillion dollar lawsuits whenever innocent people get falsely labeled as violent extremists and likely criminals, which is apparently very common.

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/update-on-the-60-separate-defamation-lawsuits-against-the-splc-u nder-consideration/

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      identicon
      Hateful ADL member, 4 Dec 2018 @ 8:15am

      Re: how about a secret SPLC-type list for gangs?

      Nicelink- but be careful-Masnicks tech guys are all ADL types.

      Those two organizations should be investigated criminally for their OTB spying, surveillance and harassment of activists. I for one would live to see the FBI raid their offices for the files they keep on their illegal spying- but that would undermine how the FBI encourages, and orofits from that EXACT spying.

      The Anti Defamation League bis particularly odious, and racist.

      And, their rhetoric and “training” of police has a very deep root in the white supremacy and Jewish supremacy movements.

      With little surprise, we see three things take place in America around 1913: the Federal Reserve act is sneaked into Congress over Christmas break; Leo Frank rapes and murders a young girl, blames a black guy, and the ADL is formed to defend his actions, and, shortly thereafter the second rise of the KKK.

      Its a koincidence, of course, much like we see the number 13 pop up in EVERY STORY about mass shooters these days; or the various Kommunity Kulture Klubs who train in klan tactics, on the ADLs dollar; or the ADL popping up after every incident running narrative kontrol.

      Read this great article from Medium, about how the ADL has astroturfed on every issue to co-opt actual dissent:

      https://medium.com/@emmaiagelman/faking-rights-why-anti-racists-detest-the-anti-defamation-l eague-cc-starbucks-f5b5c7dcff9e

      Of course! Koincidence...

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 9:22am

        Re: Re: how about a secret SPLC-type list for gangs?

        Why even bother with the dog whistle?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

          Re: Re: Re: how about a secret SPLC-type list for gangs?

          Nicelink- but be careful-Masnicks tech guys are all ADL types.

          Those two organizations should be investigated criminally for their OTB spying, surveillance and harassment of activists. I for one would live to see the FBI raid their offices for the files they keep on their illegal spying- but that would undermine how the FBI encourages, and orofits from that EXACT spying.

          The Anti Defamation League bis particularly odious, and racist.

          And, their rhetoric and “training” of police has a very deep root in the white supremacy and Jewish supremacy movements.

          With little surprise, we see three things take place in America around 1913: the Federal Reserve act is sneaked into Congress over Christmas break; Leo Frank rapes and murders a young girl, blames a black guy, and the ADL is formed to defend his actions, and, shortly thereafter the second rise of the KKK.

          Its a koincidence, of course, much like we see the number 13 pop up in EVERY STORY about mass shooters these days; or the various Kommunity Kulture Klubs who train in klan tactics, on the ADLs dollar; or the ADL popping up after every incident running narrative kontrol.

          Read this great article from Medium, about how the ADL has astroturfed on every issue to co-opt actual dissent:

          https://medium.com/@emmaiagelman/faking-rights-why-anti-racists-detest-the-anti-defamation-l eague-cc-starbucks-f5b5c7dcff9e

          Of course! Koincidence...

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 10:06am

        Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised

        Seriously just stop with the racist bullshit conspiracy theories c

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
          identicon
          Sterns Gang Member, 4 Dec 2018 @ 11:11am

          Re: Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised

          Despising people who say in their literature that they are “in the business of hate”is not racist-its just sensible, and healthy to democracy.

          SIGNED-

          ANONYMOUS STERN GANG MEMBER, aka Mayer Lanskys ghost

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 12:18pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised

            And calling racists out is even better for democracy. No matter how much they couch their hate in cutesy terminology and stale puns. So maybe stop making racist statements or get a better dog whistle and we will stop accurately describing you as a paranoid racist halfwit.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised you

              Calling anonymous ADL/Canary Mission/SPLC/Hasbara cowards like you out of your hidey holes is imperative upon democratic discourse.

              And my many friends, relatives, and acquaintainces from across the racial-ethnic spectrum agree that shitbags like you have destroyed/Israelified/ADL infected American democracy.

              AND: um, no, crybully,anti-racists DESPISE your type of racism, because it is so pervasive, toxic, and unnaccountable.

              You dont get to define racism for me, or anyone else, and while hitting Mike Masnicks racist-ADL-Friendly flag button wont stop the Jewish Supremacy and its many sycophants among zionist/dominionist troll factories from astroturfing and hogging dialectic space, occasionally guys .like me get to call you what YOU are.

              Freudian projection is so real in these cases. And it very real, very toxic, and very racist, in YOUR selective, racist scumbag definition.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2018 @ 5:06am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised you

                If you haven't noticed, there's this thing they call "deplatforming" that involves suppressing by any means necessary all of the counter-progressive thoughts and opinions (as well as cold hard facts) that threaten the "safe spaces" of the so-called "snowflake generation." Even ideas that were supported by the vast majority of Americans only a generation or two ago that now run counter to the modern day progressive dogma must be completely stomped out, the theory goes, or these ideas will not only return to society, but will usher in a wave of violent hysteria not seen since Germany in the 1930s.

                Deplatforming has become all the rage on university campuses, social media sites, and to some degree, right here on Techdirt. As the Overton Window continues to shrink as it shifts far to the left, new terms must be continuously invented to demonize people who still think like their grandparents. Here's a prediction: within the next 10 to 20 years we'll be slapping down terms like "zoophobe" and "pedophobe" against the non-PC, and punishing them likewise for expressing such backward, non-inclusive thinking.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised you

                  Thank you for that great and useful word.

                  Yeah- having religious tribal racists controlling discussion boards was an early neocon strategy, and used to poison all media chanels ala Cass Sunstein.

                  It is anathema to democratic discourse, or even sanity, and even the ACLU is getting called on the carpet because of this racial-tribal poison now.

                  All those great Jewish and other NGOs eventually catch a case of ADLFlu.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
              identicon
              Binoculars for Blind People, 5 Dec 2018 @ 9:42pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how about you piss off like you promised

              Calling anonymous ADL/Canary Mission/SPLC/Hasbara cowards like you out of your hidey holes is imperative upon democratic discourse.

              And my many friends, relatives, and acquaintainces from across the racial-ethnic spectrum agree that shitbags like you have destroyed/Israelified/ADL infected American democracy.

              AND: um, no, crybully,anti-racists DESPISE your type of racism, because it is so pervasive, toxic, and unnaccountable.

              You dont get to define racism for me, or anyone else, and while hitting Mike Masnicks racist-ADL-Friendly flag button wont stop the Jewish Supremacy and its many sycophants among zionist/dominionist troll factories from astroturfing and hogging dialectic space, occasionally guys .like me get to call you what YOU are.

              Freudian projection is so real in these cases. And it very real, very toxic, and very racist, in YOUR selective, racist scumbag definition.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Thad (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 11:53am

      Re: how about a secret SPLC-type list for gangs?

      lol pajamas media

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Vidiot (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 5:49am

    "... things like Chicago Bulls caps and Nike sneakers to be 'gang apparel.'"

    Some violent gangs wear blue uniforms and shiny black shoes. Hope they're on the list, too.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 6:03am

    In the interim....While we still have a Judge and Jury system....You still will need a reason to put someone (anyone(everyone?)) behind bars with a high unplayable bail.

    Got to keep those privately run publicly funded prisons fully booked up for maximum ROI.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Coyne Tibbets (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 6:26am

    Probably a coat of paint

    Yes, you read that right: Boston residents magically become "Gang Associates" if they're shot at by gang members. Or carjacked. Or mugged. If this happens twice, it appears they'll be upgraded to "Gang Member" thanks to their inability to avoid being victimized by gang members.

    No, only certain people. Note that it says "may be assessed."

    I'll give you two tries to identify a characteristic of people who are almost never assessed these points, and two more tries to find a characteristic that almost always gets the person assessed.

    So, most likely, this is just a coat of paint over the demonstrated racism of BPD.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 7:02am

      Re: Probably a coat of paint

      Since BPD likes gang related tags, we should all realize that BPD is the largest boston area gang of them all. They are organized and targetting anyone not in their gang.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ShadowNinja (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 8:34am

    Some parts of the scoring system sound like statistically there are some definite correlations between gang affiliation and those things. Gang on gang violence for example is a thing, I'm sure cops in a city overrun with gang violence have seen plenty of victims who were members of rival gangs.

    But then they took those statistical correlations too far, and turned them into a monstrosity that given enough time will flag everyone in the city as a 'gang member' due to 6 points of separation (i.e. pick any 2 people on the planet and you can link them together by finding people who they associate with who will eventually link the 2 of them together).

    This sounds so much like the early versions of the suspected terrorist lists, where simply calling/getting called by someone else on the suspected terrorist list got you added to the suspected terrorist list. Over 4 million Americans landed on the list at one point, including Senator Ted Kennedy, who suddenly began having a lot of trouble boarding planes at airports because of a 'T Kennedy' on the list (even though his real name was 'Edward Kennedy').

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  • identicon
    Justme, 4 Dec 2018 @ 8:40am

    Am I missing something

    How is this not a clear 1st Amendment violation of free association?

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  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

    In police jargon, this is called organized gang stalking

    Tim, thanks for this article.

    These black ops databases are appalling on every level, but when you add luve-tracking these targets from Fusion Centers, via electronic data theft, it vtakes on unimaginable propirtions.

    And,I agree with the comparison to China. But you left out another similarity: China has tens of millions of security guards who share intel with police EXACTLY like the DHS has encouraged in America.

    In fact, Americas million man army of Paul Blarts is a real threat to democracy, because they are LITERALLY getting away with murder. They do the dirt that cops cant legally do, and every ABC agency uses them for black ops.

    But China has little to none of the gang stalking problems that we see all over the US; and none of the SWAT teams driving tanks into the homes of shoplifters and potheads.

    ORGANIZED GANG STALKING is the proper name for this unconstitutional and pervasive due process free stalking of so-called gang members by poluce and community polucing elements ranging from Infragard members at the .internet switches, targeting our elections, and monitoring .our associations;to the local block captains on community watches such as George Zimmerman who murdered Trayvon Martin in such a schemes; and its in every community now, and crosses socio-economic classes, and races.

    As for Chinas internet, just because it is devoid of western fakenews, and porn, and ADL/CIA/mockingbird sponsored journalism, doesnt mean its sny mire censored than our media.

    And, if you look into the mass shooters/ crazed incel movement butter knifers/ and car crashers in your own country, you will note that their web .presence gets webscrubbed IMMEDIATELY after their events, i.e. CENSORED.

    Why is that?

    https://theintercept.com/2017/12/30/facebook-says-it-is-deleting-accounts-at-the-direction-of-t he-u-s-and-israeli-governments/

    And even look right here at how Techdirts comments section is moderated-frequently by flash mobs of cause stalkers and ADL affiliates- China is same/same on all fronts, but without the Abrahamic/ religious sectarianism guiding and gatekeepung and/or polluting all media.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 9:11am

    Credit score, citizen score ... what's next - paying money to get a higher score? Sure, why not - it's all bullshit polished up to look like something of value and relevance while doing nothing other than taking a piece of the action.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2018 @ 11:06am

    "... things like Chicago Bulls caps and Nike sneakers to be 'gang apparel.'"

    I'm surprised they didn't list Yankees caps...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 4 Dec 2018 @ 1:11pm

    I wouldn't be surprised if part of the "are you a drug trafficker/terrorist" test is also included in this system. Namely: "If you don't show any of the listed traits, then +5 points anyway because you're trying to hide it."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Agammamon, 4 Dec 2018 @ 1:19pm

    We do the same thing here in the US. Credit scores determine who gets to live where and what vehicle they can own.

    OK, wow. WTF man. A credit score is a) not even remotely like the Chinese social credit scheme and its pretty offensive that you would compare the two and b) it doesn't determine who can live where or what vehicle they can own. I mean, I don't even get where you'd think that. Its a risk assessment for loans. That's it. You got the money, you can live wherever you want, drive whatever you want - regardless of your credit score.

    Ain't got the money? You're not living in 902010 no matter how good your score is.

    And a low credit score doesn't get the government trying to get you fired or open the door to men-with-guns harrassing you.

    FFS.

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    • identicon
      In China Right Now, 4 Dec 2018 @ 8:46pm

      Re: have you ever been to China?

      You obviously are out of touch with the lower tier of our two tier society.

      ~....And a low credit score doesn't get the government trying to get you fired or open the door to men-with-guns harrassing you~

      In that lowest tier, they begin wrecking credit scores at the family courthouse, and the impound lot, and bury these unfortunates neck-deep in student loans.

      And, an unsurprising fact about mass shooters, and .men who get shot in the back, or choked to death like Eric Garner, or the guy kiled by Michael Slager: nearly every one of them were pursued endlessly by debt collectors, child support collectors, etc.

      That systemic flaw is little more than slavery by another name.

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      • identicon
        Agammamon, 5 Dec 2018 @ 2:07pm

        Re: Re: have you ever been to China?

        None of which has anything to do with your credit score.

        You can be poor and have a good score - like I am and do.

        You can be poor and have a low one.

        Your credit score didn't make you poor.

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  • icon
    Killercool (profile), 5 Dec 2018 @ 12:45am

    Your credit score can keep you out of work.

    Landlords regularly run credit checks. Try to find a car that will pass inspection, that's also cheap enough to buy out of pocket. You can't even finance an appliance without a decent credit score.

    A credit score definitely determines who can live where and what vehicle they can own.

    If you "got the money," you most likely have the credit score to match.

    If you don't, and have bad credit?

    Forget 90210, you ain't living anywhere.

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    • identicon
      Agammamon, 5 Dec 2018 @ 2:10pm

      Re:

      Ever tried Craigslist?

      I've bought my last several cars there on the cheap - and they all passed smog and vehicle inspection.

      A credit score definitely determines who can live where and what vehicle they can own.

      If you "got the money," you most likely have the credit score to match.

      So, in other words - its the money that determines that, and not your credit score. Which is just a measurement of your risk as a debtor. You can have a shit ton of money - don't pay your bills on time because you DGAF and you'll still have a low credit score.

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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 5 Dec 2018 @ 1:45am

    Someone doesn't like the competition...

    And of course the ultimate punchline to the whole thing is that the biggest gang in the city is the one making the list.

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