EU Continues To Kill The Open Web: Massive Fines For Sites That Don't Censor Within An Hour

from the what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-brussels? dept

The EU really seems quite hellbent on absolutely destroying the open internet. Just as the EU Parliament was voting to approve the EU Copyright Directive, requiring that much of the internet be licensed and curated, rather than open for anyone, the EU Commission decided to move forward with an awful idea that it had first proposed earlier this year: that social media companies must disappear "terrorist content' within one hour.

Back when this was proposed, we pointed out how this was holding companies to an absolutely impossible standard... and it appears that the EU really just doesn't give a fuck, because they're super excited about putting this into practice:

The European Commission proposed new rules on Wednesday that would require internet platforms to remove illegal terror content within an hour of it being flagged by national authorities. Firms could be fined up to 4% of global annual revenue if they repeatedly fail to comply.

Got that? 4% of global revenue. As the article notes, that means if Google fucks up a single download, it could owe $4.4 billion to the EU. Facebook could owe $1.6 billion.

"You wouldn't get away with handing out fliers inciting terrorism on the streets of our cities — and it shouldn't be possible to do it on the internet, either," EU security commissioner Julian King said in a statement.

First of all, leaving aside the (very important!) broad free speech concerns around what counts as "terrorist" content, as opposed to just dissenting content, the statement by Julian King is idiotic. If you want to use that analogy, what the Commission is proposing here is the equivalent of if someone was handing out fliers inciting terrorism on the streets of a city, that the city would then get to seize all the buildings on that street. That's almost exactly what this proposal is stating. If you want to go after people distributing terrorist content, go after the people distributing terrorist content. Don't go after the tools they use to post it. That makes no sense.

And, of course, we already know how this is going to lead to massive and widespread censorship. No company is going to want to risk a fine that massive, and with merely 1 hour to respond, no company will have the capability or context to carefully adjudicate the takedown demands to make sure they are proper and aboveboard. Obviously, they'll just start pulling down content incredibly quickly. Indeed, we've already seen what a mess this kind of rule can create. We've talked about the German law that gives sites 24 hours to takedown "hate speech," and how that's already leading to censorship of political speech and satire. Now switch that to just one hour, with even more drastic consequences.

It is literally insane that anyone could possibly think this is a good idea.

Activists are already pointing out that this proposal has simply ignored its obligation to review how such a law would impact human rights, because apparently if you just wave your hands in the air screaming "terrorists' the EU will toss basic human rights out the window.

At some point you have to wonder if the EU really just wants the internet shut off completely.


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  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
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    John Smith, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:42am

    Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

    In America, your reputation is not protected, thanks to Section 230. People own guns, medicine and housing are not fundamental rights, and Big Internet is more important than any individual. If an individual endures an injustice, they're told to "get over it" or "you had a bad experience b ut that's your problem."

    Europe is showing the way towards aq more civilized future that includes a civilized internet. Some lawyers with a hidden agenda are astroturfing the internet to give the impression of a consensus, and presenting themselves as free speech experts just because they are loudmouths with a basic knowledge of tech. Any dissent is met with snark, credentialism, arguments ad populum, and appeals to phantom authority. The same names turn up again and again, showing the hollow nature of the support.

    Europe isn't marching to their drummer, so they are throwing an epic tantrum which will only get worse as laws and court rulings continue to go against them.

    I'm one step away from moving to9 Europe myself. America has become a craphole. Let everyone here namecall and shoot each other. Thhey won't evolve very well.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:51am

      Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

      Door, ass, way out, etc. etc.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Gary (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:54am

      Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

      We get it Smith, you hate free speech. Censorship is good. The lawyers are conspiring against you in particular.
      A more civilized internet will be free of all user created content, government will have absolute control of what is said online.
      And obviously, any comment boards would be shut down to prevent slander. Email attachments would be blocked completely since there is no way to check for copyright violations. Bittorrent and VPN would be blocked despite their usefulness.
      Your internet kinda sounds like China so maybe skip Europe and move behind the great firewall?

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        John Smith, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:12am

        Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

        This site would never let me post all the evidence I have against the lawyers, but certain online review sites will.

        I have nothing against free speech, but breaking the law is not protected by the first amendment. This site has an agenda that Europe doesn't seem to agree with, and that's a good thing. Matter of time before America catches up.

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        • icon
          James Burkhardt (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:42am

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          If you are the same John Smith that has posted elsewhere, you have already said that the idea this site 'censors' you is a myth. Post the evidence. See if the information remains up. It likely will. It might get hidden, primarily because you love to preemptively attack everyone, but I doubt it would get taken down.

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        • identicon
          "Realization", 14 Sep 2018 @ 12:01pm

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          "Against the lawyers"

          Oh god hes one of those people hahahaha. Guys it's cool johns just someone who most likely had a bad spot of luck somewhere down the road involving law buisness relationship insert whatever here and it was posted on the bet in some way. Rotton luck man.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 2:20pm

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          Bullshit

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 3:59pm

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          "This site would never let me post all the evidence I have against the lawyers..."

          Post links, girl.
          We dare you!

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          • identicon
            Wendy Cockcroft, 17 Sep 2018 @ 5:54am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

            Female here, do you mind, AC?

            John Smith must be some kind of incel since he's forever complaining against women having rights and stuff.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:59am

      Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

      Remember when you had "given up" like one post ago?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:25am

      Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

      You are cheering on an approach to the Internet that will silence you. If you make other people responsible for your speech, they will decide whether it should be allowed or not.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:26am

      Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

      In America, your reputation is not protected, thanks to Section 230.

      No, you can still take someone to court for libel/slander/defamation/etc... Section 230 doesn't have anything to do with your reputation. It just means you have to blame the actual person, and not the soapbox they are standing on.

      People own guns, medicine and housing are not fundamental rights,

      The bill of rights in the Constitution kind of disagrees with you there, just a wee little bit.

      If an individual endures an injustice, they're told to "get over it" or "you had a bad experience b ut that's your problem."

      Because you shouldn't throw a childish tantrum just because someone said something you don't like. That's, you know, childish.

      Some lawyers with a hidden agenda are astroturfing the internet to give the impression of a consensus, and presenting themselves as free speech experts just because they are loudmouths with a basic knowledge of tech.

      Haha! So millions of people are now lawyers just astroturfing and NONE of them are actual technical experts? Oh John, you are so funny.

      Any dissent is met with snark, credentialism, arguments ad populum, and appeals to phantom authority.

      This is not true, I have engaged in none of these (well ok, I do like my snark) and have managed to eviscerate you and your arguments using nothing but your own posts and logic against you, sprinkled with a small selection of indisputable facts, just for flavor.

      I'm one step away from moving to9 Europe myself. America has become a craphole.

      As someone else has stated, why stop there? You seem like you would be more at home in China or North Korea. Do us all a favor and take that step. It's likely you won't be able to even access this site from those countries, so we won't have to listen to your drivel any longer.

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        John Smith, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:14am

        Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

        How do you take someone to court for defamation if they are judgment proof, there are forty of them spread around the globe, and they use anonymous remailers to poison Gooogle? Ask the people who've been blackmailed by foreigners.

        Taking the ISPs and search engines to court would be the better answer, OR, if you insist on having Section 230, eliminate the single-publication rule so the clock resets as long as the vitriol remains up.

        Europe is clearly the more civilized country here, and they protect both copyright and reputation. America has become a third-world nation when it comes to protecting the rights of individuals in cyberspace.

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        • icon
          Gary (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:26am

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          How do you take someone to court for defamation if they are judgment proof, there are forty of them spread around the globe, and they use anonymous remailers to poison Gooogle? Ask the people who've been blackmailed by foreigners.

          So in addition to suspending comments boards - such as the one you are currently using - you also want global email shut down because it can be used for nefarious purposes?

          Or are you saying that anonymous posting is the real crime?

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 2:10pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

            I think their minds would explode if you told them they are forcing the entire web to go dark.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:38am

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          How do you take someone to court for defamation if they are judgment proof, there are forty of them spread around the globe, and they use anonymous remailers to poison Gooogle?

          Then you don't, since no defamation law reaches beyond the borders of its own country. Only very serious crimes (of which saying mean things about someone is not) will get you extradited for prosecution. Being judgement proof only really applies in those situations and if you aren't actually the one who committed the crime. Also, poisoning google search is not defamation.

          Ask the people who've been blackmailed by foreigners.

          Blackmailing is not defamation. Blackmailing involves threatening to speak actual true statements someone doesn't want others to know about. Defamation is making completely untrue statements. Better take a law class.

          Taking the ISPs and search engines to court would be the better answer,

          How is that the better answer? They aren't responsible for speaking the words you don't like and it won't stop the actual persons from continuing to speak those words again and again on the same and other online platforms.

          Europe is clearly the more civilized country here

          I think you mean "more idiotic".

          protect both copyright and reputation. America has become a third-world nation when it comes to protecting the rights of individuals in cyberspace.

          America protects both, though copyright has become extremely broken. Seriously, how is protecting your copyright 70 years after you die going to encourage you to create new works. YOU'RE DEAD!

          And as I stated, America does protect your reputation. They just require you to blame the actual person attacking it, not an innocent bystander.

          As far as your third world nonsense, don't worry, I am sure your buddy Trump is looking on in glee and trying to figure out how he can destroy freedom of speech in the US the same way the EU is doing it across the ocean.

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          • identicon
            Wendy Cockcroft, 17 Sep 2018 @ 5:58am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

            How do you take someone to court for defamation if they are judgment proof, there are forty of them spread around the globe, and they use anonymous remailers to poison Gooogle? Ask the people who've been blackmailed by foreigners.

            1. Nobody is judgement proof
            2. I've had some troll do that to me. I responded by calmly addressing the lies, then getting on with my life.
            3. The best way to stand up to blackmailers is to call their bluff, live down the embarrassment of having your secret revealed, then move on.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              The Wanderer (profile), 17 Sep 2018 @ 6:12am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

              I thought "judgment-proof" meant "completely broke / insolvent /etc., so couldn't pay a judgment anyway, and as a result imposing one would make zero difference". Some people certainly are that.

              Agreed otherwise, though.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 2:43pm

          Re: Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

          Okay, sure, let's ask them. Of course, you'd have to actually come up with a person's name, first.

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        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 3:00pm

          Europe is a continent. Con‧tin‧ent.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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        Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:52am

        Re: Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

        "The bill of rights in the Constitution kind of disagrees with you there, just a wee little bit."

        ha ha ha... no you stupid knob.

        Bring a gun or ammo to DC, practice medicine without a license, modify your home in way that your city does not like or approve of?

        The idea that these are rights is a sign of of an easy fool. You have privileges that government grants you, nothing else. No matter what the constitution says because you can be killed for any reason including for reason of "scared cop". The rights you have are nothing more than a procedural issues of priviledges because you can be arrested and put in jail for nothing more than suspicion.

        If you had rights then you would walk free until a court convicted you. And now you can truly see the conundrum of government. You have government, you have no rights, just privileges people are disguising as rights.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:50am

      Re: Americans flee internet fascism by moving to Europe

      America has become a craphole.

      Your fuckbuddy Hamilton disagrees.

      Maybe the two of you should elope, I really couldn't care less.

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  • identicon
    AricTheRed, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:42am

    I normally try for something funny, however...

    Mike,

    I agree that the proposal is a fantastically terrible idea, however, you quote...

    "Firms could be fined up to 4% of global annual revenue if they repeatedly fail to comply."

    I think the operative word here is "REPEATEDLY" however you cite that a single instance could instigate the fine.

    If you are going to go all Flailing-Arm-Tubeman, details matter.

    Respectfully,

    AricTheRed

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:04am

      Re: I normally try for something funny, however...

      The question is what is counted as 'repeatedly'.

      Would the same piece of content lasting over several hours count? Or is the time after the orginal hour not counted?

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 12:09pm

        Re: Re: I normally try for something funny, however...

        "The question is what is counted as 'repeatedly'."

        Whatever the judge needs/wants it to be, which is why it is intentionally not defined by law. The purpose is to make everything technically criminal while also making it look like it is not making a couple of things criminal.

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    Will B. Better, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:47am

    "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

    You LIARS who prate about "free speech" while unable to bear my little bits of text in dissent. You LIARS who claim that it's "the community" and only "hiding", not censoring, blanking out that Techdirt provides the means in code to censor, and without doubt an Administrator approves, that there's NO possibility of up-votes nor review after hidden, once censored, it's unaccountable and forever.

    **Here's what Masnick calls "The Open Web": left-globalist weenies in fact near total control of who has an outlet and what is "news" by THEIR notions: proof that the weenies at Google are TOTALLY biased:

    LEAKED VIDEO: Execs Dismayed At Trump Election...

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/09/12/leaked-video-google-leaderships-dismayed-react ion-to-trump-election/

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:02am

      Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

      User name does not check out.

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      Will B. Better., 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:05am

      Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

      There. I've exercised the Right you provide of own free will for me or anyone to use the HTML input for comment.

      Techdirt does not visibly reserve any rights, so ANY editing -- which "hiding" is by adding an editorial evaluation warning -- violates the forms contract, and that'll SOON be actionable.

      Techdirt is a prime example of how "The Open Web" is actually controlled by left-globalist weenies in SNEAKY ways.

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      • identicon
        Damien, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:32am

        Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

        I sincerely hope this is just a bot commenting, because if not... Wow. I wasn't aware people couple be that dumb.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:36am

          Re: Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

          Nope, not a bot. He's that dumb. And a regular commenter too. We like to poke him, it makes him mad and he starts foaming at the mouth while doing a funny dance.

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 3:36pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

            He usually goes by the name John Smith though.

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            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 8:01pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

              Bot troll whatever he is he is he is not even good at either and his alex jones of the internet "they are after me!" type stuff is not even consistant when he can stay on that topic for that and not just switch to something wlse unrelated. Hes broken eithwr way.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 2:56pm

        Okay, you hate Jews and you want Internet platforms controlled by ignorant dipshits in Europe. What's your point?

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      • identicon
        Just in, 14 Sep 2018 @ 8:26pm

        Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

        Internet man rages against blog for his post always being spam"
        "What do you mean I make contradictory post about censorship and Iinsult the ledt but want to go to europe of all places?"

        Up next: why cant we have nice things?

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:32pm

        Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

        We get you mother repeatedly dropped you on your head when you were a baby.

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      • identicon
        Doug. P., 15 Sep 2018 @ 10:23am

        Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

        Hmm. Are we absolutely sure we haven't got the lovely Trumpy posting here under a pseudonym? Actually, I suppose I should have put "in disguise". "Pseudonym" is a word that's FAR too long for the resident troll to comprehend - oh, that means "understand" for the benefit of you-know-who.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 15 Sep 2018 @ 1:14pm

          Re: Re: Re: "The Open Web" should be killed if YOU uncivil get to control.

          Trump is a good poster, very good posts. Trump makes the best posts. I have not read a better post thatn the ones from Trump - covfefe posts are the wonderful, trump has the best covfefe. No body tosses covfefe to the crowd like trump

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    identicon
    Will B. Better, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:55am

    What's the downside for the former US of A if Europe crumbles?

    IF Masnick were right, it'd be a win for the US. We don't have to follow their bad example, right? Indeed, the country was founded by throwing off "royalty" who controlled all. Then Lincoln saved the country by defeating another sort of royalty in The War Between The States. Then Teddy Roosevelt suppressed the royalty of Trusts. Then Franklin Roosevelt defeated "economic royalists" (the newest kind of which Masnick favors and wants to control "free speech").

    Anyhoot, then, if I'm right, Google will be suppressed.

    So it's win-win for me. That's easy when your views are correct against evil.

    But note that Masnick regards this as a lose! Why is that? Could it be will actually harm his precious Google? That's consistent with his 20 years of evidence.

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    Will B. Better, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:00am

    "holding companies to an absolutely impossible standard..."

    Really? Say, that IS good! They need suppressed, first, and also The Masnick claims that "platforms" have an absolute Right to control speech of "natural" persons for any or no reason. So, it's proportionate.

    What's your complaint, then, Masnick, except that Google / Facebook / Twitter WON'T be absolutely immune and have absolute control? Why do you want globalist mega-corporations to have ABSOLUTE control? That can ONLY be used for evil.

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    • identicon
      Theoden, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:12am

      Re: "holding companies to an absolutely impossible standard..."

      And Will B. will continue this rant until HIS posts are removed (by breaking the laws that he so vehemently supports now).

      THEN how will he troll, when his trolling in made illegal?

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      • icon
        William Braunfeld (profile), 16 Sep 2018 @ 7:55pm

        Hi.

        You aren't replying to Will B. I'm Will B., I didn't make the above post (obviously if you compare writing styles) and I'd appreciate it if you didn't buy into obvious bullshit. :)

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 2:53pm

      If Twitter has absolute control over your speech, why the hell can you still post here? Seriously, you would've been banned on Twitter for harassment by now.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      William Braunfeld (profile), 16 Sep 2018 @ 7:53pm

      Oh, how cute.

      Someone is trying to utilize my name.

      Guess I'll be logging in for a while now. Not that anyone should really mistake this asshat for me when he uses terms like "The Masnick" and talks about "globalists" (nice dog-whistle, racist).

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:18am

    All of the free speech concerns aside, do these people not even know how time zones work? A 1 hour window to respond is a ridiculously short period of time, and there's no way companies will be able to properly respond to and investigate the validity of such "terrorist content" claims, assuming that the firm has moderators who happen to catch the notice within 1 hour of it being sent.

    If this actually gets enforced, I predict we'll see an automated takedown system become a thing similar to how Youtube handles DMCA claims, with false positives resulting in immediate takedowns, which then becomes a potential source for abuse in malicious false filing for the sake of censorship.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:28am

      Re:

      Exactly, the authorized government agency will be shocked every time their credentials leak to a political party. and are abused for political purposes.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 1:12pm

      Re:

      A 1 hour window to respond is a ridiculously short period of time, and there's no way companies will be able to properly respond to and investigate the validity of such "terrorist content" claims, assuming that the firm has moderators who happen to catch the notice within 1 hour of it being sent.

      As those pushing it would say were they honest enough, 'That's a feature, not a bug'. No time to investigate, and ruinous fines combine to result in 'if the government says it's bad, it's bad, take it down.', essentially giving them veto power over anything on the platform.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:19am

    When one reads an article one assumes a set of assumed including facts and objective/s.

    If the results are insane and not logical given the known facts then one needs to examine if they know all the facts and examine if assumed objective is the real objective.

    This goes for both the objective of the article and the objective of the author.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:35am

      Re:

      This is not how facts and objectives work. You don't change your facts to fit your objective, you change your objective to fit your facts. Otherwise we would still be living in the stone ages because science wouldn't have progressed past the gods make the sun rise and fall every day.

      The results are insane but are also a logical extension of the rules being set forth. The fact that the people putting those rules in place can't, or won't, acknowledge that, doesn't change the fact that it is all insane and illogical.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:15am

        Re: Re:

        That mentality went on long past the stone age. There is a reason we have Greek Mythology, Roman Mythology, and Norse Mythology among others.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 12:26pm

        Re: Re:

        We fave facts. Some known stated in the article, some known and not stated, and some unknown.

        If we assume that we have a known objective then there logically follows a course of action to obtain this objective.

        But lets assume something else, the more common situation, that one gets to choose neither the facts or objective and lets further assume that the course of action is completely illogical to obtain the stated objective.

        Now lets further assume the actors and players in this game are neither insane or craze. Thus we have assumed a situation where the facts, logic, and objective create craze results.

        If one thus find oneself in such a situation either one does not know the facts, the objective is not what is stated, or the situation is indeed illogical.

        The first thing one needs to do in a situation like this is examine the facts and 0bjective as most likely the results are logical but either there are additional facts or more like the real objective is not the stated objective.

        In other words the preparatory is lying big time about what they are trying to do and it is your objective to find out what they are trying to do.

        In this situation it is most likely shut down Google and Facebook.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          bob, 14 Sep 2018 @ 3:41pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          It looks like you just cracked open a philosophy book.

          Congrats,

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 9:52pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          That is quite a bit of rambling nonsense you have there that doesn't actually make any logical sense.

          But, for funsies, I tried to parse that.

          What I think you're saying is that the EU is dressing up all this up as a way to protect artists and content creators (stated objective) and the new laws are a way to do that (course of action). This comprises most of the facts. The result will actually be to the detriment of content creators. Thus the EU Parliament must be lying about their actual objective and the real objective is to shut down Google and Facebook because legacy content industries don't want to have to adapt and compete with them and all the indie artists they enable with their open platforms.

          Is that about right?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anymouse, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:28am

    Terrorist post

    1. Yo, did you see that EU ruling? It was da BOMB!

    2. EU Directorate: Your post has been flagged for terrorist content.

    3. Profit...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Eric, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:30am

    Modified Analogy

    I feel like your analogy should be modified a bit, from " If you want to use that analogy, what the Commission is proposing here is the equivalent of if someone was handing out fliers inciting terrorism on the streets of a city, that the city would then get to seize all the buildings on that street." to "...what the Commission is proposing here is the equivalent of if someone was handing out fliers inciting terrorism on the streets of a city, then the city itself would be held liable for not preventing this person handing out the flyers and so would be fined 4% of tax revenue."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:33am

    The key here is everyone flag everything every public supporter of this thing ever does as terrorist content.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Glenn, 14 Sep 2018 @ 10:55am

    The EU... leaving no stone unturned in its neverending quest to steal money from everywhere else on the planet.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:02am

    'the EU really just wants the internet shut off completely'

    of course it does! it wants to make it as impossible as possible for all the shenanigans that EU politicians, the rich, the famous and the powerful are up to to be found out and reported on to everyone, everywhere in the world. at the same time, however, those same people want to know everything there is to know about the ordinary people, where they go, who they speak to, what the read, what they buy, what they look at, everything you can think of, all in the name of letting those above carry on just as they have for decades! we, the ordinary people, have always been slaves and those above want to keep us like it. it all started with the ridiculous law 'the right to be forgotten' and it wont end until the best way for news to be broadcast, the Internet, is completely stopped or so totally regulated that us mere mortals wont be able to use it anyway!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:18am

    I wonder how long before the EU becomes China

    Everyone in the EU will be forced to use VPNs or other masking techs to use social media if this law stands. Personally, I would Geofence the EU and prevent anyone from accessing my site from anywhere within those bounds.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Châu, 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:33am

    How enforce?

    If company not live in EU, what can EU do? I think companies will ignore EU. Can I reverse this, if EU want me follow their rule, I demand passport and right work and live in EU with no visa and work permit, and right vote in EU election.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Hugo S Cunningham (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:38am

    SESTA writ large...

    Just as SESTA makes it harder to catch real sex traffickers (those who exploit minors and other vulnerable women) by driving legitimate sex work underground, so this EU measure will make it harder to find terrorists.

    The US approach has been better-- allow jihadist sites to appear, but immediately start investigating the posters and visitors, and setting traps as necessary. (I am more tolerant of surveillance than techdirt's editors, provided the surveillance is only used against terrorists and other serious criminals.)

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 1:18pm

      Re: SESTA writ large...

      (I am more tolerant of surveillance than techdirt's editors, provided the surveillance is only used against terrorists and other serious criminals.)

      The objections as I've read it are not against investigations in general, so much as indiscrimnate investigations, indifferently scooping up excessive amounts of data to sift through later, rather than carefully aiming to make sure they get what they need and no more.

      It would be like the difference between trying to get the personal data of specific individuals who posted content on a site that was illegal and/or strongly suggested that they were involved in something illegal versus trying to get information on everyone that visited the site during a period of time.

      One of those is aimed, the other is aimed only in the sense of 'only' impacting one entire site.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Hugo S Cunningham (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 7:48pm

        Re: Re: SESTA writ large...

        I don't mind having my metadata scooped up and dumped with that of hundreds of millions of others. I would like to see the search warrant requirements and exclusionary rules applied at the next stage-- searching the metadata. Because of the power of the metadata tool, requirements for warrants should be harder to get-- only for serious crimes, and certainly not for victimless offenses.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ECA (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 11:55am

    4% ???

    Anyone get this as a BAD idea??
    Has any corp ever been charge this much for the Stupid things they do??
    Enron?
    Pollution??
    Found chemical sites AROUND THE USA??
    How about companies that run a business only to take the money and RUN, under the LLC corp laws??(they can only sue the company, NOT the persons who own/run it)

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ShadowNinja (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 12:53pm

    How long till Donald Trump is censored by this?

    Given how the EU has shown they think they can censor the Internet globally, how long will it take for some of Donald Trump's tweets to be censored like this?

    Twitter will have to have all reported content taken down automatically to comply with this. And as a big celebrity who says controversial things all the time, no doubt some troll in the EU (or even the US) will report some of his tweets as 'terrorist content'.

    Imagine the shit-storm that could cause if Trump gets angry at Europe for censoring his tweets.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 1:26pm

      'All animals are equal. Some however are more equal than others'

      I strongly suspect that any reports made against his account are automatically tossed out, such that it would be impossible for people to use it against him. Twitter's not going to risk a presidential tantrum over him having one or more of his tweets removed.

      Mind, it would be hilarious to see it used against him(or even better any and all supporters of the proposed change), and I'm sure some people will try, I just wouldn't expect it to work.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Smith, 16 Sep 2018 @ 5:00am

        Re: 'All animals are equal. Some however are more equal than others'

        Twitter's position on censoring Trump is that the President is "newsworthy" and subject to being voted out of office as a sanction.

        I believe Mr. Dorsey said something to this effect once.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      John Smith, 16 Sep 2018 @ 5:01am

      Re: How long till Donald Trump is censored by this?

      Twiter, and any other internet company, is free to not do business in the EU, just as it is free to censor in America.

      Freedom sucks when it doesn't tilt your way, I know.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2018 @ 11:59am

        Re: Re: How long till Donald Trump is censored by this?

        Try walking into a Micky-Ds with no shirt and no shoes, then please report back to us about transpired when you began arguing with the the staff, then the manager and then the police.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          John Smith, 16 Sep 2018 @ 6:56pm

          Re: Re: Re: How long till Donald Trump is censored by this?

          You seem to be agreeing with me: McDonald's can choose who it serves, while the EU can enforce copyright as it sees fit to anyone who wants to do business in the EU.

          Google is free to vacate the EU if it chooses. It is FREE to do that.

          What exactly are you disagreeing with?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Ambrellite, 14 Sep 2018 @ 1:02pm

    New forms

    We may start to see attacks on websites exploit this by mass posting vaguely illegal content. Given the thousands (millions?) of fake social media accounts being used, it wouldn't be a stretch.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 14 Sep 2018 @ 1:28pm

    If we don't control it, destroy it

    At some point you have to wonder if the EU really just wants the internet shut off completely.

    Oh not all of it, just the parts they don't control, and with this proposed change giving them veto power over various platforms that number just got noticeably smaller.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 5:49pm

    Forcing a choice?

    Hmmm, given the situation, I have to wonder how this might affect the overall state of the European Union. There is already a level of discontent with the EU as seen with such movements as Brexit, ItaLeave, and more. If faced with a choice of staying in the EU with this newly restrictive version of the internet or leaving the EU so that the existing internet setup can be retained, which action do you think the different EU countries would choose? How many might say this is an issue worth leaving for? This ruling looks to be adding fuel to the EU-breakup fire.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 14 Sep 2018 @ 7:11pm

    Hello Internet

    Just give us all your money so can be friends.

    Sincerely, EU

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jonah Kyle, 16 Sep 2018 @ 9:49am

    1984 is NOT a manual, and yet...

    This is not about "preventing terrorism." This is STRICTLY a 1984-tactic of suppressing ALL free expression so a narrow, socialist narrative can prevail unchallenged. In short, the resulting suppression is actually a FEATURE, not a BUG. Always remember, socialists and the Left want to kill all non-progressives.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2018 @ 12:07pm

      Re: 1984 is NOT a manual, and yet...

      "so a narrow, socialist narrative can prevail"

      I read that book a long time ago and my memory may be fading but I do not recall the part about the socialist narrative as you claim. Do you by chance have a reference, a quote, maybe a chapter number? Also, to what type of socialism do you think it refers? iirc, Orwell did not like socialists all the much.

      Your right/left dogma blurs your vision, have another shot.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wendy Cockcroft, 17 Sep 2018 @ 6:03am

      Re: 1984 is NOT a manual, and yet...

      **This is not about "preventing terrorism." This is STRICTLY a 1984-tactic of suppressing ALL free expression so a narrow, socialist narrative can prevail unchallenged. In short, the resulting suppression is actually a FEATURE, not a BUG. Always remember, socialists and the Left want to kill all non-progressives.**

      1. You should have stopped there; we all agree with that statement.
      2. Say what, now? Look at who voted for the measure, then get back to me.
      3. Okay, you're right about the feature, but not what the suppression is about.
      4. Not remotely true. Not a leftie but I hate liars.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2018 @ 3:26pm

    Hilariously, being PRO Brexit under EU regulations is now classified as terrorist material because it "brings harm or disrespect to the EU and its nations".

    People joke about thought crimes, the EU has ACTUALLY gone and criminalized some parts of free speech they don't like.

    Probably doesn't help that Spain, Greece, Italy and a bunch of others all want to leave the EU as well and are planning their own referendums.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2018 @ 4:33pm

    Maybe Brexit is a good thing.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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