New York State Eyes Its Own Net Neutrality Law

from the looming-legal-fisticuffs dept

Numerous states say they'll be crafting their own net neutrality protections in the wake of the FCC's recent vote to dismantle the rules. ISPs of course predicted this, which is why Comcast and Verizon successfully lobbied the FCC to include provisions in its "Restoring Internet Freedom" order that bans states from protecting consumers from privacy and net neutrality violations, or other bad behavior by incumbent ISPs. In ISP lobbying land, stopping states from writing protectionist law is an assault on "states rights," but when states actually try to help consumers you'll note the concern for states rights magically disappears.

Regardless, New York State, California and Washington have all indicated that they will attempt to test the FCC's state preemption authority on this front in the new year by crafting their own net neutrality legislation. You'll recall that the FCC already had its wrist slapped by the courts for over-reach when it tried to preempt states from passing anti-community broadband laws, quite literally written by large ISPs, intended to hamstring creative solutions (including public/private partnerships) for the telecom industry's broadband competition logjam.

But even if the FCC wins this new legal fight over state authority, folks like New York Assemblymember Patricia Fahy argue there's numerous steps states and cities can take to protect consumers on the net neutrality front without running afoul of the FCC's order. The text of her proposal (pdf) includes numerous proposals, including refusing to do business with companies that repeatedly violate net neutrality:

"If you are going to be a contractor and want to work with New York, then you must meet the principles,” Fahy tells Fast Company. She hopes that this approach will get around a roadblock known as preemption. The Constitution generally gives the federal government final authority over commercial activities that cross state lines. But while New York can’t require ISPs to uphold net neutrality, it can use its “power of the purse” to punish ISPs that don’t.

"There’s a decent amount of precedent for saying, if you want a state contract, you have to meet such and such requirements,” she says, noting construction contracts contingent on certain labor practices or the use of U.S.-made steel."

Again we'll see how this all pans out in the new year. States will likely face the same problem as the federal government did when trying to define net neutrality violations amidst a sea of ISP lobbying influence. Regardless, the FCC's battles with the states will be just one part of a cavalcade of lawsuits filed against the FCC in the new year for over-stepping its authority, ignoring the public, and rushing through what's potentially the least-popular decision in tech-policy history.

This same sequence of events played out earlier this year when the GOP and Trump administration rushed to kill consumer broadband privacy protections, resulting in numerous states attempting to create their own broadband privacy laws. And while Comcast, Verizon and AT&T lobbyists like to whine that states are wreaking havoc by creating discordant, inconsistent consumer protections, they tend to ignore the fact that this wouldn't be happening if they hadn't spent millions of dollars gutting popular, over-arching protections on the federal level.


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  • icon
    Ninja (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:59am

    Americans will need to keep an eye on their elected representatives at least until the next mid-terms. I think there will be a bloodbath and Trump will be more or less neutered bu a new Democrat (majority) legislative.

    I'm hoping Republicans get a rude awakening then.

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    • icon
      Ninja (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:17am

      Re:

      Missing: keep an eye so they won't introduce and pass laws to preempt states in that NN front. My bad.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      MyNameHere (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 6:42am

      Re:

      Normal thinking would be that you are correct, but it's never that simple.

      Consider the "special election" held recently in Alabama. For all of the bad stuff that came out about the Republican candidate, the election is still close enough that this guy won't concede. That means that even in the Metoo world we live in, being an accused multiple sexual attacker isn't strong enough to sway "conservative" voters.

      Democrats would likely squeak out a narrow Senate majority (but not as likely in the house) but as soon as they try to flex their muscles, the will get shut down. That leads to 2 years of the Republicans going on about how the Democrats are fucking things up, and Trump ends up with a second term.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:03am

        Re: Re:

        There are purple states where seats will be lost even with the ridiculous gerrymandering.

        Flex their muscles? Is that what you call it?

        Or - Trump is going to be impeached. Stay tuned, same cheeto time, same cheeto station.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:22pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "Or - Trump is going to be impeached."

          Impeachment doesn't do anything. Nothing short of resignation is going to remove him from office, and he's too arrogant for that.

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    • icon
      Teamchaos (profile), 29 Dec 2017 @ 6:10am

      Re:

      Sorry Ninja, but in order for the hoped for 'bloodbath' to take place, democrats would have to win in areas that Trump won by large margins. >80% of republicans still support Trump. Democrats will win in blue states (VA), but it's doubtful a blue wave will take place red states. Of the five states that held special elections for seats in the house in 2017 - none of them changed hands.

      The senate special election did result in a change but, unless the republicans run a deplorable slate of candidates (ala Moore, Akin) it's very unlikely that control of the house or senate will change hands.

      I know liberal pundits are predicting a blue wave, but that's just to try and generate some hope among the base. Turnout in blue states may soar as a result, but it probably won't make a difference in red states.

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      • identicon
        Thad, 29 Dec 2017 @ 8:42am

        Re: Re:

        Democrats are currently polling at about 13% above Republicans on a generic ballot. That's not enough to win solid-red states like Utah, but it's enough to win light-red states like Arizona. Jeff Flake won by 3 points in 2012; if I'm the Democrat running for his seat (likely Kyrsten Sinema), I'm liking my odds right now.

        There are no guarantees, of course. Back-of-the-napkin math, though? Right now it's looking like Democrats are a slight favorite to take the House, and the Senate is close to a toss-up.

        The president's party almost always loses seats in the midterms. And we've never had a president this unpopular at this point in his term. I think it's very likely that the Democrats will pick up seats; it's less a question of "if" than "how many".

        It's true that Moore was an unusually bad candidate. FiveThirtyEight suggests that he lost 10 points due to the Democrats' opening advantage, another 10 points due to being an exceptionally bad candidate, and another 10 points after being accused of having sex with underage girls. You're right that most Republicans will not face a confluence of all three of those factors. But all Republicans are looking at that initial 10-point deficit (up to 13 in the current generic ballot; expect it to fluctuate in the coming months). And Bannon's pushing more candidates who fit factor #2 (including Kelli Ward in Arizona -- again, if I'm Synema I'm liking my odds). We'll see some of #3, too -- not necessarily accusations as awful as the ones against Moore, but the #metoo movement is just getting started, and we're going to be learning about a lot of sexual misconduct by politicians in the coming months. (However, that particular weakness is not limited to one side; sexual misconduct is not partisan. We can expect to see more accusations against Republicans and Democrats alike.)

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        • icon
          Teamchaos (profile), 29 Dec 2017 @ 9:32am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "we've never had a president this unpopular at this point in his term." Actually Obama's approval was 46% at this point in his term, same as Trump's. (http://www.newsweek.com/trump-approval-rating-obama-same-761948)

          Of course the democrats suffered historic losses in the 2010 election, so this might give democrats some hope. But - even though the democrats lost the house in 2010 they held on to the senate, which should give republicans some hope.

          However, the map is very different this year. It's so far tilted against the democrats this time, I can't see a blue wave 'bloodbath' happening. If democrats do take control of either chamber, it will be close.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 6:41am

    Thing is, the FCC cannot magically pass new rules prohibiting states form passing their own laws. That is something only Congress can do and even then, it's doubtful they could do such a thing.

    The problem is that the FCC is trying to bluff the states by telling them they cannot pass their own net neutrality laws and that what's going to happen is when more and more states start passing their own net neutrality laws within their own states, it could very well create a domino effect where more and more states pass their own net neutrality laws and it could very well embarrass and undermine the FCC.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      MyNameHere (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 6:47am

      Re:

      "Thing is, the FCC cannot magically pass new rules prohibiting states form passing their own laws. That is something only Congress can do and even then, it's doubtful they could do such a thing."

      Actually, the sort of can. Interstate communications is a federal prerogative, not a state one. States cannot pass regulation onto how an interstate communications company would operate their communications network, that is for the Feds.

      The states can do things for consumer privacy protections, provided it's framed as being for all industries and not narrowly set only for internet companies. Otherwise, there would be enough wiggle room in there for lawsuits that would keep the law in the freezer for years.

      Also, you need to understand that there is at least one (and possibly more) "net neutrality" laws pending on congress that will very, very specifically ban the states from trying to override federal jurisdiction in the matter. No matter what those NN rules are, it's better to have a national standard than a state or municipal level patchwork of contradictory laws and mindless reporting.

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        identicon
        28Dec17, 28 Dec 2017 @ 8:29am

        Re: FCC Magic

        FCC has very broad authority to independently "regulate" U.S. telecommunications ... over-riding state governments. This is precisely why Democrats and Progressives LOVE Federal regulatory agencies and their massive centralized power.

        Amusing to see Democrats and progressives suddenly enthusiastic for "States Rights" against the Federal government.

        Note also that the NY State legislature is notoriously corrupt and easily purchased/bribed by special interests, big business or otherwise.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 8:54am

          Re: Re: FCC Magic

          "Amusing to see Democrats and progressives suddenly enthusiastic for "States Rights" against the Federal government."

          I have been warning those losers that their zealotry over regulation is going to be the very thing used to fuck them.

          They never listen, I am not even sure it is possible for them to view the world through anything other than democrat colored glasses. But this is also true of republicans.

          But this just goes towards my constant claim that everyone actually does want corruption in government... well as long as it serves their purposes. They only bitch about that corruption when it is from their enemies.

          You reap what you sow... a lesson I learned a long time ago and one that democrats will refuse to learn even while they succumb to the demise they could have been saved from if they would just learn it!

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Thad, 28 Dec 2017 @ 9:10am

          Re: Re: FCC Magic

          FCC has very broad authority to independently "regulate" U.S. telecommunications ... over-riding state governments.

          1. That's not how quotation marks work.

          2. The Sixth Circuit ruled that the FCC can't prevent states from banning municipal broadband. That precedent seems like it's going to be important here.

          Amusing to see Democrats and progressives suddenly enthusiastic for "States Rights" against the Federal government.

          States' Rights: Not Just for Racists Anymore.

          There is, perhaps, some irony in seeing partisans support states' rights in some instances and not others (it is, after all, a Republican FCC that is explicitly attempting to limit states' rights here). And it's certainly ironic that the Sixth Circuit's ruling against Wheeler's FCC is likely to have consequences for Pai's.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 7:08am

      Re:

      Not that they need any help embarrassing themselves.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 8:57am

      Re:

      "it could very well create a domino effect where more and more states pass their own net neutrality laws and it could very well embarrass and undermine the FCC."

      Works for me, I have been telling you folks that NN per the FCC and "Wheeler vision" is pure weak-sauce and a terrible solution for much bigger problems.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:07am

        Re: Re:

        I'm glad you have been telling everyone that, it certainly has had an impact upon our governing body - why just look at all the progress being made at this very moment.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:41am

          Re: Re: Re:

          You are just another retard.

          I have been saying it because no one will listen and you are proof of that. I warned those like you that this was coming but you are too stupid to listen.

          That dagger grinding in your back... it was the one you gave government to use against your political foes... how it found its way into your back is not exactly a secret now is it?!

          Ironic...

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 11:32am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Given how you use “retard” as an insult—and how you insult everyone in general for not immediately and continuously giving you a metaphorical blowjob for your supposed intelligence—you should already know exactly why people do not listen to you.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Chip, 28 Dec 2017 @ 11:44am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              But I am very "very" Smart! You can Tell because I "talk" about how Smart I am all the time, which is what "smart" people do!

              Every Nation eats the Paint chips it Deserves!

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:04pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Hey Chip...

                "https://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/09/obama-you-get-the-politicians-you-deserve-238150"

                D oes your lord and master "Obama" eat them too?

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
              identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:02pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Intelligence is not the problem here.

              Your "stupid" biases are. When you decide to look at the facts, follow the money, and how you keep sabotaging yourselves you will stop being stupid.

              I know you fucktards are capable of curing yourselves which is why I am hard on you.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:21pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Now, when you say “curing yourselves”, do you mean “thinking for yourself” or “making sure the last thing that goes through your head is a bullet”?

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                  identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:38pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  why is death one of the first thing on your minds around here?

                  You sick fucks need a fucking therapist!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • icon
                    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:51pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    why is death one of the first thing on your minds around here?

                    Why is “retard” your go-to insult for anyone you think is even slightly less intelligent than you?

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                      identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 2:52pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Because you are being retarded.

                      I answered your question are you going to answer mine or just deflect like a usual "can't answer a straight question" lefty?

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:20pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        > Insists he's not about partisan politics
                        > Assumes everyone who disagrees with him is a filthy lefty

                        ...Whatever tints the rose in your glasses, sparky.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                          identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 6:02pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Supporting government controlled NN is a leftist ideal. It is why it has become a partisan issue so easily.

                          Let me help you out with some information.

                          The left seeks to control your life and economy through big government and psuedo-consumer protectionist regulation, so supporting that makes you a left leaning person in that regard.

                          The right seeks to control your life and economy through big business and business protectionist regulation, so supporting the destruction of NN makes me right leaning on this subject.

                          Now... all the times I was accused of being a Trump supporter or repuke when I was against NN, I did not see hide nor hair of your rose tinted accusations against those guys.

                          Funny that right?

                          I hold independent, libertarian, left, right, liberal, and conservative values. I am okay with being labeled, as long as it is correct.

                          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 9:17pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            Maybe because we already get that you're just here to toss insults to assert a self-aggrandizing sense of narcissistic superiority?

                            I don't think you'll find many people who will seriously disagree with your point that government is generally corruptible and broken, that much we're clear. Yelling at other people no matter what party, background, influence, social bracket or country they come from that everything which goes wrong in government is their fault but yours has been your shtick. It's about as useful and relevant as pointing out that a restaurant napkin doesn't have a vagina.

                            You get called out on it because you actually believe you're significantly contributing to the conversation by saying that every citizen on the planet deserves the government someone on the other hemisphere gets.

                            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                          • icon
                            Toom1275 (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:39pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            So the 75% of Republicans that support NN are now lefties?

                            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                            • identicon
                              Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:06am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              never heard of a RINO?

                              When it comes to government most people are left of center. But that is not the ONLY benchmark that makes people right or left now is it?

                              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                              • identicon
                                Wendy Cockcroft, 2 Jan 2018 @ 6:05am

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                Erm... wrong.

                                Conservatives used to hold a bigger range of views than "Government bad." This is why partisanship is so dangerous. The reductionism inevitably leads to extremism.

                                Government by the people for the people is a good and healthy thing. That people have abrogated their responsibilities due to GOP propaganda and are refusing to hold their representatives to account is proof that they've stopped thinking for themselves and have resorted to simplistic tribalism.

                                Anarchy doesn't scale!

                                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                          • icon
                            Teamchaos (profile), 29 Dec 2017 @ 6:19am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            Net Neutrality is a complex issue. Supporters want stronger regulation of internet service providers and fear that capitalism run rampant will result in disaster.

                            Anti-net neutrality folks fear that regulation of internet service providers will result in regulation of internet content, something socialist/communist/totalitarian regimes are already implementing around the world. There are folks on the left who believe that America would be well served if conservative sites were shut down.

                            Right leaning and left leaning folks both have valid fears. What we all want is a free and open internet, we just differ in the best way to accomplish that.

                            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                            • identicon
                              Thad, 29 Dec 2017 @ 9:14am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              This is false equivalence.

                              First, the pro- and anti-net neutrality sides are not remotely equal in size. Americans, of all political affiliations, overwhelmingly favor net neutrality. The only place where it's a partisan political issue is Congress.

                              Second, Title II does not allow the FCC to regulate content. That's not a thing. People who say that the removal of net neutrality will cause ISPs to restrict traffic have evidence to back that claim up. People who claim that Title II regulation allows the FCC to restrict content on the Internet are wrong. The two viewpoints are not equivalent.

                              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                              • icon
                                Teamchaos (profile), 29 Dec 2017 @ 9:39am

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                Yes - everybody supports the idea of a free and open internet. No doubt about that. Not everyone supports the previous administration's regulatory approach to implementing it. If you think that concern only exists in congress, you are probably living on the east or west coast, in a big city, or college town.

                                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                                  identicon
                                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:09am

                                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                  "Not everyone supports the previous administration's regulatory approach to implementing it."

                                  They are not intelligent enough to grasp that around here.

                                  You either do it their "prescribed way" or you are an anarchist to them.

                                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                  • identicon
                                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:26am

                                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                    Yeah, everyone with whom you disagree is by definition .. "not intelligent", brilliant!

                                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                                      identicon
                                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:45am

                                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                      ha ha ha... i did not say that.

                                      It is not that they disagree with me that makes them a retards... is is the solution they support that makes them the retard.

                                      But sure, go ahead and misrepresent my position, you are only about the XXXXXth one to do so, nothing new there.

                                      You retards know you are already wrong, hell you are looking at what I told you was coming with your regulatory zealotry and you STILL won't listen.

                                      What do you call a bunch of folks that ridicule and ignore people that tell them that they are getting stabbed in the back and STILL ridicule and ignore them when it happens?

                                      Retards, I would say!

                                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                • identicon
                                  Thad, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:19am

                                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                  Not everyone supports the previous administration's regulatory approach to implementing it.

                                  No, not everyone, just 83% of people.

                                  But hey, seventeen percent isn't bad. It's more than half as many as believe in Bigfoot.

                                  If you think that concern only exists in congress, you are probably living on the east or west coast, in a big city, or college town.

                                  Well, obviously I'm not living in a rural area; I have Internet access.

                                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                  • identicon
                                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:46am

                                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                    You CAN fool most of the people MOST of the time. Just look at politics and history.

                                    Mass delusions and mass hysteria are quite real phenomenon.

                                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                • identicon
                                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 4:38pm

                                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                  "everybody supports the idea of a free and open internet"

                                  I do not see this as being the case.

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                                  • identicon
                                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 5:11pm

                                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                    that is just their cognitive dissonance talking. When they think they are right, they think that "everyone" agrees with them and that 100% of all experts from all eternity are on their side.

                                    Do not deny them their delusions, they hate it when you prove them wrong. You have to "sweet talk" them into seeing it differently.

                                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                    • icon
                                      The Wanderer (profile), 30 Dec 2017 @ 5:07am

                                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                      If you think continually insulting people constitutes "sweet talk", there's something wrong with your view of the world.

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                                      • identicon
                                        Chip, 30 Dec 2017 @ 10:36am

                                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                        SWEET -- thats how you "spell" the Wet stuff that comes out of my Armpits, right?

                                        Every Nation eats the Paint chips it Deserves!

                                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 11:38am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            You seem to think you understand ironic and yet the sarcasm escapes undetected.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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              identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 11:59am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              ha ha... are you that stupid? I know the post was sarcastic, hence the reason for my response.

              You are apparently too stupid to understand my response while others were able.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:26pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            What’s ironic is that you never replied to Mike after he took you out behind the woodshed yesterday. And here you are today spewing the same tired easily disproven bullshit. Maybe ironic isn’t the word I’m thinking of. Oh yeah it’s retarded. That’s the word I’m thinking of. My apologies, carry on retard.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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              identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 1:42pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "What’s ironic is that you never replied to Mike after he took you out behind the woodshed yesterday."

              Provide article and post, don't just assume which AC I am.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 3:18pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Right, you’re the OTHER delusional twat blast who thinks his middle school lunchroom argumentation is just so advanced that no one but him can possibly understand it’s brillence. And has to call everyone names because his ego is so grossly inflated it’s all he can do to raise his head above the keyboard.

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                  Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 3:50pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  want some cheese with that substance-less whine?

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                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 7:55pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    You might want to stick to calling people retards if that’s the best retort you’ve got.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:39am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Thank you!

                      Because you folks advance terrible solutions to problems you are retarding the procession of a better solution. Which is why it is appropriate for me to call you retards.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 7:01am

    tooting that horn perhaps a bit too loud

    This is as likely to be the states just getting in on the shakedown as anything else, regardless of how they paint it.

    And the worst players will be just fine with that, since they can rely on the Federal government to sit by while state governments usurp even more rights than the fed. All the while the chain of appeals courts between civil rights leaders and SCOTUS becomes even longer. Thus the probability of any given case stumbling into a court they own lock stock and barrel, gets even higher.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 8:14am

    best be quick then before AT&T/Comcast dick licker Marsha Blackburn gets her heap of crap 'Net Neutrality' Bill pushing forward! same goes to all other States that want to have their own laws!

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 8:21am

    What everyone keeps forgetting is that it's doubtful Democrats will regain control of Congress.

    Why?

    The economy is rebounding under a republican-led congress and a Trump presidency. The tax reform/cuts that we got are actually going to benefit the middle class, the government followed through on a promise that was proclaimed by Democrats in recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and we're actually seeing job growth in the country.

    The problem with democrats was that when Trump was campaigning for president, they weren't dealing with your typical Republican, Trump was actually listening to Americans. If the Democratic Party had backed Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton, someone who offended many blacks and many women in this country, then the Democrats would have won the White House.

    I just also think that the FCC might be in a no-win situation. The Net Neutrality issue has polarized the country and it's possible that Ajit-"whatever da fuck his name is" simply is going to either end up losing the final battle for Net Neutrality or that he's going to force more states into adopting net neutrality rules.

    The FCC, simply does not have executive privilege to preempt states from passing their own policies. Sure, the FCC can try, but the more they dig in their heels, the more they'll come out smelling like garbage. I don't know, I just don't see the FCC coming out of this smelling nice.

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    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 8:53am

      Re:

      The economy is rebounding under a republican-led congress and a Trump presidency.

      Trump inherited an improving economy created by the Obama administration. Giving him and the current Republican-led Congress all the credit for the economy this year seems more than a bit shortsighted (and partisan). If the economy stays stable or gets worse over the next three years, Trump and Congress should accept responsibility for that; if it continues to improve, they should be given credit for that.

      The tax reform/cuts that we got are actually going to benefit the middle class

      “You all just got a lot richer.” — Donald Trump, to a group of wealthy friends at Mar-a-Lago, the evening after he signed the tax bill

      the government followed through on a promise that was proclaimed by Democrats in recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

      This decision created numerous rifts in diplomatic relationships that will be hanging over Trump’s head for as long as he is in office.

      we're actually seeing job growth in the country

      Again, let us see if Trump and Congress can keep that going for the next three years before we fall to our knees and, uh, praise them.

      when Trump was campaigning for president, they weren't dealing with your typical Republican, Trump was actually listening to Americans

      He was listening to White Americans, at least.

      If the Democratic Party had backed Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton, someone who offended many blacks and many women in this country, then the Democrats would have won the White House.

      Quit litigating the 2016 primaries. You cannot know, with the certainty of God, whether Sanders would have won against Trump—or what the Trump campaign would have looked like with Sanders as the opposing candidate.

      Also: Do not act as if Trump never offended anybody. He just had enough people who did not care that his campaign was built on authoritative White nationalism with a side of Christian theocracy.

      I just also think that the FCC might be in a no-win situation.

      Only because the FCC gives more weight to the corporations running FCC-regulated industries than it does to the general public that the agency supposedly serves.

      The Net Neutrality issue has polarized the country

      According to most of the polling that I have seen, a healthy majority of people—made up of majorities from both sides of the political aisle—support Network Neutrality. “Polarizing” is not the adjective I would use here.

      it's possible that Ajit[ Pai] simply is going to either end up losing the final battle for Net Neutrality or that he's going to force more states into adopting net neutrality rules

      In which case, his entire crusade to dismantle Network Neutrality for the sake of his corporate leash-holders would seem all the more foolish in light of his intentionally making himself look like a gigantic gaping asshole.

      I just don't see the FCC coming out of this smelling nice.

      The FCC did not go into this smelling nice.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:10am

      Re:

      "Why?"

      Your answer to your own question is severely lacking in both depth and breadth. Are you often a guest speaker on Fox news?

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 9:28am

    backdoor ban / regulation through taxation

    A common backdoor way of banning something that cannot legally be banned is through onerous taxation. Perhaps states could slap ISPs with something equivalent to the 1934 GCA, a tax so stratospheric that it would guarantee that they do what they're told without actually having to tell them.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:39am

    For all the trouble we went through, a new state law on ISP regulation should be stronger than the one thrown out, at the very least making it simple for competitors to enter markets.

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      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 10:46am

      Re:

      this is are far more preferable outcome than NN.

      The problem is that most of the solutions coming out are municipal broadband which means government is going to get "carte blanche" on spying on the citizens... but it's not like leftists have the mental capacity to think that because for them... government IS the god they have "faith" in.

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      • icon
        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 11:05am

        Re: Re:

        The government already had carte blanche to spy on American citizens.

        And any state-level regulatory law for ISPs should include network neutrality as an obligatory principle. Competition between companies should be focused on who has the better service, not who can offer “normal” speeds or even bare-minimum access to the most sites for the lowest cost.

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          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:19pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "The government already had carte blanche to spy on American citizens."

          Yes, but apparently I should have made my post more concise. I have to keep remembering that you guys have blinders on. This would give "local" governments carte blanche to spy on it's citizens where municipal access is constructed.

          "And any state-level regulatory law for ISPs should include network neutrality as an obligatory principle."

          What government "should do" and what it "does do" have historically proven to be at odds with each other.

          "Competition between companies should be focused on who has the better service"

          THIS is what I advocate for. Laws and regulations that help ensure that fair competition is easy to achieve! NN does not do this and never will. If we can remove the protectionist laws/regulations protecting these government blessed monopolies we will get NN automatically because any competitor will use it as a hook to gain customers.

          And WHAM a free-market principle giving us what we wanted without it even having to be a law for idiot politicians to fuck up to begin with!

          [sorry guys I hit the wrong button]

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:29pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Really? You seriously think that local governments have the time, manpower, and resources to put together a spying operation for all municipal broadband customers?

            I've heard some nutty statements in my time but man, you take the cake, table, chairs, and part of the floor.

            Conspiracy theorist much? Do you listen to Alex Jones too?

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              Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:55pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Check TD history you fucking tool its full of government surveillance stories that happen at the local levels. Stingrays, ALPR's, Traffic cameras....

              I would ask how a person as stupid as you could possibly exist, but considering human history I would have to say that question was answered before you were even born.

              You are so stupid I would be embarrassed to be associated with any group you "claimed" to belong to! Do a little research before you show the world how fucking dumb you are next time.

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              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 1:26pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                I've read all those TD articles thank you very much.
                Stingrays, ALPR's, and traffic cameras (all essentially self-contained and developed by third parties) are relatively easy to set up and operate compared to putting together a datacenter with the requirements and staff necessary to house all of the data being pumped into it by users (newsflash, there are magnitudes more data there than what is collected by any of those other systems).

                The requirements and technical knowledge necessary to run an internet spying operation are far greater and more demanding than the local police office rolling out a stingray or even traffic cameras.

                And that only touches on the collection and storage. Then you have to have a system to classify it, search it, DBA's to manage it, etc...

                In addition to that, most local governments are nowhere near as corrupt as the state or federal level. Why? Because they are usually too small for corporations to lobby and because their elected officials are usually peoples' neighbors and the community is closer-knit. Generally speaking you're not going to want to do something that is going to directly impact and tick off your friends and family.

                Plus, Stingrays, ALPR's, and traffic cameras are all deployed by law enforcement to try and catch criminals (usually). Municipal broadband isn't and wouldn't be installed or run by law enforcement so what possible reason for spying on you would local governments have? The benefits the federal government get by it aren't in effect at the local level.

                Finally, law enforcement use of those systems, while used illegally in many cases, is not inherently illegal and generally is used only for catching criminals. (Not saying I'm perfectly fine with them, far from it) Deliberately capturing all of your local population's internet usage for non-law enforcement usage is blatantly illegal (since it's local you can't even make the "national security" claim) and there is no way that could ever be hidden, in every town all the time.

                Also, your insults are lame and weak sauce. If you're going to insult someone, at least do it right. And if your only defense against our points is to insult us, well, then we've already won. If you want to actually convince us of something and change our minds, try dropping the insults and actually presenting some hard, reliable and verifiable facts. Ones that we can't easily disprove using simple logic, common sense, and a quick Google search.

                Before you call me stupid, why don't you check your own facts before you embarrass yourself.

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                  Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 2:00pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "I've read all those TD articles thank you very much."

                  Then you have apparently failed to understand them.

                  "Stingrays, ALPR's, and traffic cameras (all essentially self-contained and developed by third parties) are relatively easy to set up and operate compared to putting together a datacenter with the requirements and staff necessary to house all of the data being pumped into it by users (newsflash, there are magnitudes more data there than what is collected by any of those other systems)."

                  All Paid for by those "cash strapped" local governments you claimed to not have the time, manpower, or resources... "You seriously think that local governments have the time, manpower, and resources to put together a spying operation for all municipal broadband customers?"

                  Apparently they DO have the resources... you just help prove your own claim wrong. How does it feel to be so stupid?

                  "In addition to that, most local governments are nowhere near as corrupt as the state or federal level."

                  O shit, I knew I should not have picked on a fundie... my bad, my bad. I will trouble you and your religion no longer friend! I hope you and the Church of Government are long lived and prosperous!

                  "Also, your insults are lame and weak sauce. If you're going to insult someone, at least do it right. And if your only defense against our points is to insult us, well, then we've already won."

                  You tossed the insults first, but got all whiny when I tossed them back at you? Stop being a cry baby.. you got what you gave you big baby! You need a trophy for that so you are brave enough to post again or are you going to break down and cry about it for me again?

                  To be clear, I do not intend insult, I genuinely believe you are being stupid, therefore I called you stupid. Correct the problem and I will stop calling you stupid! Got it stupid?

                  People whining about insults are problematic because they are NOT contributing tot he solution, they are creating another problem by saying people have to comport to their behavior standards like a group of crybabies! You sir are the weak-sauce, not I. Call me whatever you please I am not so thin skinned as to let it get to me and start whining that someone called me a bad name.

                  do you need a trophy for participation now? I would hate to scare you away from the big bad internet where stupid, smart, and wise people are going to pick on you in one fashion or another.

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                  • icon
                    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 2:19pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    I would hate to scare you away from the big bad internet where stupid, smart, and wise people are going to pick on you in one fashion or another.

                    That never seems to stop you…

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                      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 2:54pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      I am not the one crying about people using mean language like you folks are.

                      You know I am right but its easier to hit back about my language to deflect from the fact that you are losing.

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                      • icon
                        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 3:01pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        You can be right without being a condescending jerk towards everyone who disagrees with you about…well, anything, really. It costs you nothing to not be an asshole.

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:11pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          "It costs you nothing to not be an asshole."

                          I was bullied in school, that statement is one of ignorance.

                          People didn't listen to me until I put a stop to the bullying. Know what happened when I fought back? Now I am the bad guy. Where were all the social justice warriors when I was getting bullied? No one cared that I defended myself, they just cared that I kicked someone, asshole or not, right or not!

                          If you are MORE worried about how nice a person is rather than that truth they bring you are more often than not going to be deceived! A nice person plays on your ego with sweet words to get you to believe in their cause. A person of justice and truth will just lay it right out without buttering you up first.

                          A lie is bitter in the beginning but sweet in the end, the truth is sweet in the beginning but bitter in the end.

                          The truth itself is an insult to many people. To say that I must be nice is often the same as saying do not bring me truth for I do not desire its immediately harsh words!

                          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:13pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            "A lie is bitter in the beginning but sweet in the end, the truth is sweet in the beginning but bitter in the end."

                            I screwed that up bad...

                            it should be

                            "The truth is bitter in the beginning but sweet in the end, while a lie is sweet in the beginning but bitter in the end."

                            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                            • icon
                              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:09pm

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              No, you got it right the first time.

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                              • identicon
                                Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:34pm

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                So... you ARE a troll. I will try to remember your name.

                                That was a rewording of the "Truth is a bitter pill to swallow" saying.

                                To mock someone that is correcting an error is pretty showing of your integrity.

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                          • icon
                            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:08pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            I was bullied in school, that statement is one of ignorance.

                            I was bullied in school, too. I stand by my statement and its sentiment.

                            People didn't listen to me until I put a stop to the bullying. Know what happened when I fought back? Now I am the bad guy.

                            Were you actively looking for fights instead of merely defending yourself? If so, yes, you were an asshole.

                            If you are MORE worried about how nice a person is rather than that truth they bring you are more often than not going to be deceived!

                            Tell me how I am wrong about something, and I will listen; call me an ignorant fool before that, and I will not. You can be crude and angry during an argument—tone is not the issue here. Insulting a person before telling them that they are wrong about something, however, is priming them to take your argument less seriously. (It is also a cheap setup for you to smugly point out how they focused on your calling them names instead of the substance of your actual argument was, thus giving you a “win”.) If you want people to take your arguments seriously, calling people “retards” before you put them forth will not get that particular job done.

                            A nice person plays on your ego with sweet words to get you to believe in their cause. A person of justice and truth will just lay it right out without buttering you up first.

                            And an asshole will call you a “retard” before saying whatever they have to say.

                            (By the by: People can be nice without boosting someone’s ego. Politeness and civility are still things that exist.)

                            The truth itself is an insult to many people.

                            So are actual insults.

                            To say that I must be nice is often the same as saying do not bring me truth for I do not desire its immediately harsh words!

                            Speak the truth, if you feel it is the truth. Say it to my face if necessary. But do not be surprised if I reject what you say, even if it is the truth, because you prefaced it with “you are a retard if you don’t get this”.

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                            • identicon
                              Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:32pm

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              "call me an ignorant fool before that"

                              I do not call people fools or use that word to attack others and NEVER WILL.

                              I have grown tired of your constant lies to misrepresent my position. You are either a troll or a dogmatic sycophant incapable of reason.

                              "Tell me how I am wrong about something, and I will listen"

                              You have already proven multiple times that you will willingly lie. You wouldn't listen to truth if it was the last thing being uttered in existence.

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                              • icon
                                Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:40pm

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                I do not call people fools or use that word to attack others and NEVER WILL.

                                Yeah, you just use “retard”. Totally better, amirite? 🤔

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                                  Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:53pm

                                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                  I consider the etymology of words hence my aversion to using "fool" while insulting others. The only time I use that word is when I tell others to not use it or to not call something foolish or when I am repeating a quote such as "fool me one shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

                                  Calling someone a fool is out of the question for me. Calling someone a retard is just calling them slow to understand and does not rise to the equivalence of calling them a fool.

                                  If you need to increase the severity of a simple insult to power your indignation then you actively seek to be insulted and will find insult where it is not even intended.

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                                  • identicon
                                    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 6:53pm

                                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                    fool

                                    noun
                                    a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.

                                    Origin
                                    1225–75; Middle English fol, fool < Old French fol < Latin follis bellows, bag; cf. follis

                                    Synonyms
                                    simpleton, dolt, dunce, blockhead, numskull, ignoramus, dunderhead, ninny, nincompoop, booby, saphead, sap. 2. zany, clown. 5. moron, imbecile, idiot. 6. delude, hoodwink, cheat, gull, hoax, cozen, dupe, gudgeon.

                                    To summarize, fool = stupid person.

                                    Please, tell us again how you consider the etymology of words befor you use them.

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                                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:13am

                                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                      re·tard
                                      verb
                                      verb: retard; 3rd person present: retards; past tense: retarded; past participle: retarded; gerund or present participle: retarding
                                      riˈtärd/

                                      1.
                                      delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.

                                      -------------------------------------

                                      yea, I am good.

                                      retard != fool

                                      The information is right there on the internet and you STILL FAILED!

                                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                      • identicon
                                        Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2017 @ 8:08am

                                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                        Oh did I?

                                        retard noun re·tard

                                        Definition of retard

                                        1: a holding back or slowing down : retardation

                                        2 offensive : a person affected with mental retardation

                                        3 informal, usually offensive : a foolish or stupid person

                                        Gee, it's right there on the internet and you STILL failed. You provided the definition of the verb form, but you are using the noun form in all your posts.

                                        So let's try this again: retard = fool.

                                        Supposing that you were intending the first definition of the noun form (which I doubt since you are obviously trying to be offensive), no one in normal conversation would assume that calling someone a retard meant you were saying they were holding progress back. They would, correctly, assume you meant either definition 2 or 3.

                                        If you insist that isn't what you meant, then pick a different word that isn't commonly used to call someone a stupid fool! Any third grader understands at least that much.

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                                  • icon
                                    The Wanderer (profile), 29 Dec 2017 @ 7:35am

                                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                    ...are you sure you want to put this on an etymological footing?

                                    Because to my eye, "retard" itself looks more questionable than "fool" does.

                                    "To retard" means "to delay, to slow down, to hinder, to hold back", and that a "retarded" person is one whose mental development is (delayed, slowed down, hindered, held back) by something outside of that person's own control - by what in reasonably-modern terms is called a developmental disability.

                                    The term "retard" for a person who does not have such a disability is thus a slur on those who actually do have such disabilities.

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                                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:17am

                                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                      I think you are right on target. See the other guys post on the subject.

                                      You are guys are still resisting even while looking directly at a dictionary proving me correct that calling someone a fool is not the same as calling someone a retard.

                                      In the case here, I am only calling you a bunch of retards because your ignorance and resistance to being properly educated is retarding a proper solution to this problem hence it's appropriate usage here!

                                      You may have received an education, but it does not guarantee that you ARE educated!

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                                      • icon
                                        The Wanderer (profile), 29 Dec 2017 @ 4:46pm

                                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                        Apparently I didn't get my meaning across, so let me attempt to clarify.

                                        I was not attempting to prove that calling someone a fool is in any sense equivalent to calling someone a retard.

                                        To my eye, given their respective etymologies, the use of "retard" as an insult is more offensive than the use of "fool" as an insult.

                                        To reject the use of "fool" as an insult, while continuing to use "retard" that way, is therefore backwards; the fact that you do so makes you look worse in my eyes than if you did it the other way around.

                                        If (as seems likely, though I have not seen it confirmed) you either reject or fail to see that "retard" is more offensive than "fool" based on the terms' respective etymologies, that fact makes you look either stupid, or like an asshole.

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                                          identicon
                                          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 5:54pm

                                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                          "To my eye, given their respective etymologies, the use of "retard" as an insult is more offensive than the use of "fool" as an insult."

                                          here are the links to the definition.

                                          https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retard
                                          https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ry/fool

                                          You have "bad eyes" friend.

                                          Here are the etymologies.

                                          Middle English: from Old French fol ‘fool, foolish,’ from Latin follis ‘bellows, bag,’ by extension ‘empty-headed person

                                          late 15th century: from French retarder, from Latin retardare, from re- ‘back’ + tardus ‘slow.’

                                          Calling someone 'slow' is far less insulting than calling someone 'emtpy-headed'.

                                          A slow person will go farther than someone without any wit to speak of at all.

                                          What world do you live in to be this ignorant and then to freely advertise it while calling ME the asshole?

                                          Your picture must be right next to the definition of clusterfuck.

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                                          • identicon
                                            Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2017 @ 8:17am

                                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                            Slightly further down the page on the first link:

                                            3 play \ˈrē-ˌtärd\ informal, usually offensive : a foolish or stupid person

                                            Read it and weep, retard. (See what I did there?)

                                            How are your eyes? Need some glasses there buddy?

                                            Your picture is right there next to the definition of moron.

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                            • identicon
                              Chip, 29 Dec 2017 @ 8:54am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              I use to be "bullied" in School Too1! People would Bully me by Saying things like "Chip, you can't just put Capital Letters and Quotation marks in Random palces" and "Chip, that's not what Sycophantic means" and "Sir, are you sure your suppose to Be Here, this is a middle School and you are obviously in your Early 30's?"

                              Then I Fought Back! I called those people Retards, because I am Very, Very "smart"! Now I am the "bad Guy"? What a bunch of Sycophantic idiots!

                              It is the same "here"! Everyone Laguhs at me here! They "bully" e by saying things like "But how is removing Title II regulations going to increase Broadband competaionp?" and "Joseph de Maistre was a monarchist and what he was saying was that people need a King because they are too "stupid" to vote" and "Yes you did say all regulations are bad, look, here are some links to post where you said that".

                              And then you all tell "lies" about me! Like I have "no Solutions" even though I have lots and "lots" of solutions, which I already told you and I am not going to Tell you Again! And that I called you a "fool"! I never called Anyone a Fool, you Stupid dumb retard Idiot!

                              Why are all you Sycophantic "idiots" so Mean to "me"? I neer did "anything "to dserve this Kind of Treatment, you fucking Retards!

                              Every Nation eats the Paint chips it Deserves!

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                              • identicon
                                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:21am

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                lol, that was funny, but you did have to stretch a few things to get there.

                                keep up the work mr paint chip eater!

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                        • identicon
                          Thad, 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:12pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          You can be right

                          He can?

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                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 2:26pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    True, I did throw the insults first. My bad on that.

                    But, that still doesn't negate any of the points I made or the fact that your insults are quite lame and weak sauce. I've had chat bots throw better insults my way than what you do.

                    For how long your reply was, you provided no evidence to disprove any of my points other than to point out that I did insult you first and subsequently sling a bunch of insults that weren't any more clever than "you're stupid, stupid". Oh yes, very original and biting. What is this grade school?

                    As for "proving myself wrong", I suppose I didn't explicitly specify that the cost of setting up a broadband spying operation was also massively more expensive than stingrays, etc... I figured that was obvious. Let me correct that, setting up a broadband spying operation is also massively more expensive than deploying any of those other systems. Happy now?

                    Being insulted by a nameless person who could be thousands of miles away from me doesn't bother me in the least. That's the nice thing about anonymity on the internet. If it was a friend or family member saying things like that, then I would be a bit hurt. Someone who knows nothing about me and is essentially an internet bully barely even registers.

                    What does bother me is people's blatant ignorance of and/or deliberate and willful misrepresentation of facts and truth. That's also what frustrates me and leads to occasional outbursts of insults. You have shown at best a blatant ignorance of facts, truth, logic, common sense, and general human nature. When we point that out with hard, verifiable facts, your only response is to sling weak insults and call us stupid. Can you see how we may not be persuaded by such arguments?

                    All that aside, if you want to start an insult contest then let's go, it's actually quite fun.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 3:22pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "True, I did throw the insults first. My bad on that."

                      Admission, my respect for you grows sir!

                      "But, that still doesn't negate any of the points I made or the fact that your insults are quite lame and weak sauce. I've had chat bots throw better insults my way than what you do."

                      I have no problem with that, you have your opinions and I have mine. I only called you out because griping about someone using insults when you use them yourself was hypocritical.

                      "As for "proving myself wrong", I suppose I didn't explicitly specify that the cost of setting up a broadband spying operation was also massively more expensive than stingrays, etc... I figured that was obvious. Let me correct that, setting up a broadband spying operation is also massively more expensive than deploying any of those other systems. Happy now?"

                      No dice sir, your angle was to clearly indicate that local governments would not be able to somehow acquire or seek resources to spy on people. The federal government will most certainly provide funding by giving them the resources just like they give away APC's to the police. You greatly underestimate the forces at work here.

                      If technologically possible government WILL spy on you and MAKE you pay for it. It's not a secret, its not even a conspiracy for nutters to discuss in dark corners. Hell the DHS even has a "See something, Say something" open invited to spy and tattle on your fellow citizens. It is also an open discussion with every nation and and most local municipalities the world over.

                      "Being insulted by a nameless person..."

                      Seriously man, get over it. Even talking bout insults is a waste of effort, I only cared about you being a hypocrite over it. I have enough respect from my own family that they insult me for the fun of it, but when I speak up about a subject they listen because I usually get it right. I don't claim to be perfect, I do make mistakes, but I am trying to tell many of you that your blind support for things like NN and government regulation is a mistake and what led to these problems.

                      "Can you see how we may not be persuaded by such arguments?"

                      That is the intention sir! Because it proves something I have been trying to get you people to understand.

                      You don't care about the truth, you only care about what fits your agenda. The truth is not important only how well the lie is oiled. People seeking to deceive you are not likely to come with insults, they will come with sweet words to trick you and play right on your ego.

                      "All that aside, if you want to start an insult contest then let's go, it's actually quite fun."

                      Okay temping but you go first. If you are funny enough I will try my hand at it as well.

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                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 6:36am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        The federal government will most certainly provide funding by giving them the resources just like they give away APC's to the police. You greatly underestimate the forces at work here.

                        Because the federal government has enough money and resources to give this capabaility to every single city/town/village in the US. Right. Which also assumes every city/town/village wants it, see my argument above about corruption not being as pervasive at the local levels. And like I said, if the government were to try something like that, there is no way it could be kept secret and the people would likely revolt.

                        Yes, the federal government does want to spy on us, no argument there. But you can't say that all governments (talking about local, not nation state) want to.

                        We're not saying you necessarily have to be nice to get your point across (though it would help) but what we do require is that you have verifiable proof to support your arguments. You don't have any, and the occasional submissions of proof you give us are easily disproved by recorded history, facts, and a little logical reasoning. When we point that out to you, you insult us but never ever give any counter-evidence proving us wrong.

                        You've already gone first in the insults, even before my initial post. Don't say I didn't warn you.

                        You sir, are a fool. It is a wonder you have survived for as long as you have given the fact that your intelligence is so low that they had to redesign the IQ scale to include negative numbers. In fact, calling you a fool is an insult to fools and imbeciles the world over, for even they possess more intelligence than you. You are a fool and I name you such.

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                          identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:27am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Insults should be witty not brutish. You really are just a retard, give it up!

                          "Which also assumes every city/town/village wants it, see my argument above about corruption not being as pervasive at the local levels."

                          You cannot use an exception to disprove a general rule.
                          Corruption is most definitely pervasive at local levels, just because you can show me a decent local government someone does not mean that most other local governments by majority are not.

                          Are you even "trying" here? There are numerous innocent people rail-roaded to jail because the "local level" is corrupt.

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                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 12:41pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            I struck a nerve I see. If you can't take the heat...

                            Present some statistics that prove all local governments are so completely corrupt. If you can't, then why should I take your word for it?

                            A fool will always think a witty insult is brutish and a fool who has been outdone will resort to simple, meaningless insults and try to convince his opponent there is no way they can win, or that they are stupid or a retard, in an attempt to save face from the fact that he has already lost. A fool also has a limited vocabulary from which to derive his retorts, resulting in him repeating the same insult over and over again in the vain hope that eventually he will prevail.

                            I also name you a schoolyard bully. For your response is exactly that of a schoolyard bully who has just been soundly trounced and embarrassed and has no way to deal with the fact that those whom he used to torment have turned the tables on him. A bully will also try to change the rules after they've lost to give the appearance that they have won. You are a schoolyard bully and I name you such.

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                              Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 5:26pm

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              "I struck a nerve I see."

                              Indeed you did, you struck the is that really all you got nerve?

                              "If you can't take the heat..."

                              Not much heat, more pity than anything.

                              "Present some statistics that prove all local governments are so completely corrupt. If you can't, then why should I take your word for it?"

                              Which one you want, the incarceration rates for minorities?
                              Or how about all of those city councils that have been using traffic violations to pad their coffers, or the civil asset forfeitures, or all the shot dogs, or how about the judges that put children in juvy to pad their "investment" strategies. How about the cities that created contracts with the ISP's to help block google fiber from deploying, or cities that lost their municipal broadband deployments lawsuits?

                              I mean I can go on forever. You do know that in the vast majority of cases people actually deal with local government agencies where most of the bullshit happens and NOT with federal agencies and authorities. I mean, you DID KNOW THAT RIGHT?

                              Go and take a look at the innocence project champ. They have 353 of the high profile cases. Rare and occasional local corruption was not responsible for the Rodney King beating, rare and occasional local corruption was not responsible for the million man march, rare and occasional local corruption was not responsible for the Ferguson riots, rare and occasional local corruption is not responsible for all of the back alley business dealings and crimes being perpetrated.

                              You are the school yard bully. I have facts, you have "feelings" and "dogma".

                              Go down and pass out FIJA flyers at your local courthouse and find out how not locally corrupt your place is? Please report back, I am sure the police will be very friendly with your rights.

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              • identicon
                concerned AC, 31 Dec 2017 @ 11:25pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                "you fucking tool" "You are so stupid I would be embarrassed to be associated with any group you "claimed" to belong to! Do a little research before you show the world how fucking dumb you are next time."

                Couldn't have said it better myself ass wipe

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          • icon
            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:46pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            This would give "local" governments carte blanche to spy on it's citizens where municipal access is constructed.

            Same shit in a smaller package.

            What government "should do" and what it "does do" have historically proven to be at odds with each other.

            Yes, like how the government should be doing more to address the root causes of poverty but ends up passing a bill that will make rich people richer.

            THIS is what I advocate for.

            And you are doing a horrible job of it.

            Laws and regulations that help ensure that fair competition is easy to achieve!

            How do you explain the near-complete lack of such “easy to achieve” laws and regulations in recent history, then?

            NN does not do this and never will.

            Enshrining the principles of Network Neutrality as law would, however, prevent ISPs from throttling traffic and setting up “tolls” for both access and the speed thereof. If someone advocates for competition between ISPs based on better service instead of who can offer the cheapest access to the most amount of sites, supporting Network Neutrality seems like a no-brainer decision.

            If we can remove the protectionist laws/regulations protecting these government blessed monopolies we will get NN automatically because any competitor will use it as a hook to gain customers.

            I would love to believe this. But I am not enough of a wide-eyed optimistic believer in “the pure free market” to do so. Corporations act in the best interests of shareholders and executives, not the general public. I mean, how slow do you think Comcast would act if the higher-ups believed they could legally gouge customers in Comcast-monopolized areas by selling cable-TV-esque “packages” of accessible websites?

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              identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 1:21pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "Yes, like how the government should be doing more to address the root causes of poverty but ends up passing a bill that will make rich people richer."

              Exactly, but that is not part of this discussion.

              "And you are doing a horrible job of it."

              Sorry I can't dumb it down enough for you all.

              "How do you explain the near-complete lack of such “easy to achieve” laws and regulations in recent history, then?"

              You, that's what. You are so bent on seeing regulations as your savior politicians have been able to sucker you endlessly. They say one thing but do another and you still cheer them on! How brilliant can you be to keep getting taken like this?

              "Enshrining the principles of Network Neutrality as law would, however, prevent ISPs from throttling traffic and setting up “tolls” for both access and the speed thereof."

              No it won't. Just because there is a law does not mean that it will be enforced or enforced with equality. The most sacred laws of this land are shit upon every living fucking second yet you think you are going to be saved by agencies that spend all of their time wheeling and dealing with businesses behind your back? There is stupid and then there is you!

              We have tried this "regulatory zealotry" of your kind for decades without success, and like Einstein once said... doing the same thing but expecting different results is the definition of insanity! You can't "REGULATION HARDER" to solve this problem because regulation created it!

              "I would love to believe this. But I am not enough of a wide-eyed optimistic believer in “the pure free market” to do so."

              You are a liar... this is what I said...

              "THIS is what I advocate for. Laws and regulations that help ensure that fair competition is easy to achieve!"

              How you got "pure free market" out of that shows that you are not interested in intellectual integrity. You are only interested in advancing "the agenda" no matter how many lies, distortions, half-truths, or straw-man arguments you need to concoct to get there!

              Big business has you all figured out already, you are just too ignorant or stupid to realize it. You have given you voice to an easy paid for prostitute called a politician and they know it. All they have to do is act like they hate regulations to get you idiots to knee-jerk believe they need to be kept!

              Why do you think they immediately whined to get the FCC to institute regulations against the States the moment NN was abolished?

              Big business & government does not want a free-market at all... why is that? Because in a free-market with protections against monopolies and trusts you have the greatest voice possible as a citizen and NO ONE wants you to have that because it gives you too much power! As a citizen power is something you should never have, it is better to keep you shackled like a slave while they offer you the "illusion" of freedom or choice!

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              • icon
                Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 2:18pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Sorry I can't dumb it down enough for you all.

                I doubt you can “dumb it down” enough for your own sake, let alone anyone else’s.

                You are so bent on seeing regulations as your savior politicians have been able to sucker you endlessly.

                You have no idea how I feel about regulations other than the ones I have discussed here, so you can stop shoving words down my throat as if your assumptions are facts.

                They say one thing but do another and you still cheer them on! How brilliant can you be to keep getting taken like this?

                Because I have the right, responsibility, and civic obligation to vote for political candidates who I believe will act in the best interests of the general public. No politician is a saint, but acting as if they are all devils will not change a damn thing.

                Just because there is a law does not mean that it will be enforced or enforced with equality.

                Laws that forbid municipal broadband systems get enforced with precision and speed. Maybe that has something to do with how those laws are written by obscenely wealthy corporations who help pay for political campaigns. Hmm.

                The most sacred laws of this land are shit upon every living fucking second yet you think you are going to be saved by agencies that spend all of their time wheeling and dealing with businesses behind your back?

                I do not put unquestioned faith in the government. Institutions will not save us.

                like Einstein once said... doing the same thing but expecting different results is the definition of insanity!

                [citation needed]

                You can't "REGULATION HARDER" to solve this problem because regulation created it!

                You cannot necessarily “let the free market decide” and expect that approach to solve the problem, either.

                How you got "pure free market" out of that shows that you are not interested in intellectual integrity.

                You have spent so much time talking about de-regulation and free-market competition, as well as shittalking the government and its various regulatory agencies, that I should be forgiven for thinking you believe in the principle of “de-regulate and let the free market do whatever”.

                You are only interested in advancing "the agenda" no matter how many lies, distortions, half-truths, or straw-man arguments you need to concoct to get there!

                Oh, by all means, outline “the agenda”! Is it the Gay Agenda? Or is it the Illuminati’s? Oh, I know—George Soros must finally be sending me a paycheck for making half-assed comments on a tech blog that only a propotional handful of people in the world will ever read!

                Big business has you all figured out already, you are just too ignorant or stupid to realize it.

                ProTip: If you want to have a constructive conversation with someone, saying they are too stupid to have a conversation with you will not help you.

                You have given you voice to an easy paid for prostitute called a politician and they know it. All they have to do is act like they hate regulations to get you idiots to knee-jerk believe they need to be kept!

                I thought I was supposed to be for regulation, not against it.

                Why do you think they immediately whined to get the FCC to institute regulations against the States the moment NN was abolished?

                Define “they” and I might be able to answer your question.

                Big business & government does not want a free-market at all... why is that?

                The current setup of greed-driven corruption and the corporate-favorable “revolving door” policies of regulatory agency hirings is not a setup worth disrupting. Or so I would assume.

                Because in a free-market with protections against monopolies and trusts you have the greatest voice possible as a citizen and NO ONE wants you to have that because it gives you too much power!

                That power means nothing when companies like Disney and Amazon can literally buy more power than I would ever be capable of wielding as a pissant middle-class consumer.

                As a citizen power is something you should never have, it is better to keep you shackled like a slave while they offer you the "illusion" of freedom or choice!

                “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” ― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

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                  Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 3:47pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "You have no idea how I feel about regulations other than the ones I have discussed here, so you can stop shoving words down my throat as if your assumptions are facts."

                  Do you support NN? If you do that gives me more than enough information to based my claims. Let me help you to the word that describes how an individual might be able to accuratly assume your positions based on your words.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

                  You see, in order for you to support NN you must first have a taste for government to save you from something in some capacity. Additionally you are required to have some form of faith that they will carry forward with such a charge of responsibly. This means that you are "pro" big government because a smaller government would not tend to follow the same reasoning that would lead to something like NN.

                  Now here is where logic will begin to fail me, because you guys don't have any actual logic. You simultaneously hold the idea that free-market would fail but a democracy would succeed. Free-Market is literally an economic democracy. If we really were a democracy many people would have voted to keep black people as slaves, and because that is wrong you would seek to stop democracy and use a court to over rule democracy like they did with gay marriage in Californian.

                  So let me put it this way, your logic is dictated by your party, you are TOLD what logic to have regardless of it's intellectual integrity!

                  You are TOLD to desire democracy even though you actually do not accept it when it votes against you. You are TOLD to desire regulations even though it is going to protect big business instead of you. You are told that the government will protect you and that you need to have faith in that despite the fact that it is actively pounding you in the ass!

                  You are an intellectually dissonant person, fitting the likes of a leftist that holds several contradicting ideas!

                  did I miss anything?

                  "That power means nothing when companies like Disney and Amazon can literally buy more power than I would ever be capable of wielding as a pissant middle-class consumer."

                  So are you "feeling" the power you received from Ajit Pai? Yo auctioned what little "power" you had away. Tell me, if you cannot trust your fellow citizens to economically band together and boycott Disney how can you have any trust for them to band together and vote in a responsible candidate to safeguard your interests?

                  Do you not see the contradiction in this? I am not sure you understand anything!

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                  • icon
                    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:49pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    in order for you to support NN you must first have a taste for government to save you from something in some capacity

                    I support the principles of Network Neutrality because I have been using the Internet as we know it today since the late 1990s, and I prefer being able to access any site I want at the average speed for my connection over potentially being nickel-and-dimed for mere access to FurAffinity, my mastodon.social account, and The Wrestling Observer Newsletter. We can argue whether government regulation is necessary to uphold those principles, and at what level such regulation should be enacted if it is necessary, but my support for the principles of Network Neutrality is not rooted in a love for government. Do not put words in my mouth that I neither spoke nor wrote.

                    you are required to have some form of faith that they will carry forward with such a charge of responsibly

                    I can hope that a government agency will act with integrity and in the best interests of the general public. I can also expect that same agency to completely shit the bed in trying to do its job while complying with the demands of corporations. Hoping for the best and expecting the worst are not mutually exclusive concepts.

                    This means that you are "pro" big government because a smaller government would not tend to follow the same reasoning that would lead to something like NN.

                    [citation needed]

                    You simultaneously hold the idea that free-market would fail but a democracy would succeed.

                    Yes, I believe that a purely free market, devoid of regulations, would mostly fail in terms of preventing monopolies and acting in the best interests of the general public. (Perhaps this belief makes me a fool.) That has no bearing on my feelings about democracy in any form, and my opinion of democracy—it ain’t perfect, but it’ll have to do—has no relevance to a discussion of free markets.

                    Free-Market is literally an economic democracy.

                    A “democratic” free market could still become a tyrannical wasteland if one player in said market was allowed to gather enough power and resources to squash all the other players and establish a dominant monopoly that no other company could stop. Do not assume the free market alone would—or could—correct itself if such a major player began to take over.

                    And yes, by the same token, do not assume that all market segments could—or would—fall to a tyrannical monopoly. The future is never set. But with that said: I would place no trust in major corporations to “behave”, then act accordingly.

                    If we really were a democracy many people would have voted to keep black people as slaves, and because that is wrong you would seek to stop democracy and use a court to over rule democracy like they did with gay marriage in Californian.

                    Thank you for reminding us why we have the different branches of government.

                    your logic is dictated by your party, you are TOLD what logic to have regardless of it's intellectual integrity!

                    I register to vote as an unaffiliated independent. What party are you talking about, sir?

                    You are TOLD to desire democracy even though you actually do not accept it when it votes against you.

                    Not liking the outcome of an election is not the same thing as refusing to accept that outcome. I do not like how the 2016 presidential election turned out, but I still accept its outcome regardless of how I feel.

                    You are TOLD to desire regulations even though it is going to protect big business instead of you.

                    You tell me lots of things. Doesn’t mean I have to listen.

                    You are told that the government will protect you and that you need to have faith in that despite the fact that it is actively pounding you in the ass!

                    I would rather have the bare minimum of faith in our government than hope and pray for either tyranny or anarchy. If metaphorical anal rape is the price I have to pay for holding that faith, so be it.

                    You are an intellectually dissonant person

                    So what?

                    fitting the likes of a leftist that holds several contradicting ideas!

                    Nobody, not even you, can avoid that kind of dissonance across an entire lifetime unless said lifetime is tragically short.

                    So are you "feeling" the power you received from Ajit Pai?

                    If I thought Ajit Pai voted for the interests of the general public instead of the corporations that stand to benefit the most from the destruction of Network Neutrality and a toothless FCC, I would answer that question.

                    if you cannot trust your fellow citizens to economically band together and boycott Disney how can you have any trust for them to band together and vote in a responsible candidate to safeguard your interests?

                    I do not. I can hope for the best, but if 2016 taught me anything, it is that I should expect the worst possible outcome, then do what little I can to help prevent that outcome. That is all I can do—all any of us can do.

                    I am not sure you understand anything!

                    I understand your condescension, your holier-than-thou attitude, your feeling that you are so much better as a person than all the peons beneath you on the ladder of intelligence. I understand that you literally cannot make an argument without insulting the person with whom you disagree. I understand how your ego makes you feel so high-and-mighty that you cannot comprehend that maybe—just maybe—someone a little bit dumber than you can still be less of an asshole than you. And while I am an asshole, I am still less of a gaping shithole than you will ever be.

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                      Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:22pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "I support the principles of Network Neutrality"

                      I do as well... I just do not support the "government" enacting control through a regulatory captured agency to perform that task. The FCC has more than failed us, it is operating against us.

                      "Yes, I believe that a purely free market, devoid of regulations, would mostly fail in terms of preventing monopolies and acting in the best interests of the general public."

                      Holding this belief does not make you a fool, it just lets me know that you recognize the your fellow humans are not that strong against adversity and required a guiding hand of some form to keep them from succumbing to a monopoly.

                      I hold this same belief, which is why I support anti-monopoly and anti-trust regulations to help backup most of the principals of a free market and do not advocate for 100% total deregulation as so many here falsely claim. I also support the government taking back the public infrastructure from businesses and regulating the access to that so that a natural monopoly is not allowed to form.

                      "A “democratic” free market could still become a tyrannical wasteland if one player in said market was allowed to gather enough power and resources to squash all the other players and establish a dominant monopoly that no other company could stop."

                      You make false assumptions. No one single person or corporation would be able to out perform a unified mass of people seeking it's destruction. In order for Tyranny of any kind to prevail, it relies on the apathy of multitudes of people. Business are in luck there, because history proves people will often AND very willingly submit to slavery in one form or another as long as their lives or loved ones are not threatened in the exchange.

                      "I register to vote as an unaffiliated independent. What party are you talking about, sir?"

                      A dubious response. I too am independent holding disgust for both parties but I would doubt your sincerity given your responses and positions. I will give benefit of the doubt in your case because I do believe it is possible for you to be what you say you are even if my experiences have show this to be unlikely.

                      "So what?"

                      If you can hold dissonant views then a corruption in your logic is a guarantee. I cannot have any form of trust that you are not dogmatically biased on the subject or willing to listen to reason.

                      "Nobody, not even you, can avoid that kind of dissonance across an entire lifetime unless said lifetime is tragically short."

                      This is a dishonest statement seeking to misrepresent my position. The dissonances that I held as a child are of no merit to this conversations. The dissonances of the past are unfair judgements against the me that is now. I only care about the dissonance you hold now, not those in the past. I seek to abolish all dissonance in my logic. If I find dissonance I seek to reconcile the dissonance or rid myself of the contradictory logic with new information.

                      "I understand your condescension, your holier-than-thou attitude, your feeling that you are so much better as a person than all the peons beneath you on the ladder of intelligence."

                      This is your own construct. Do you not see the constant derision I face when coming to forum where everyone laughs and scoffs at me?

                      You see... the folk here are the one that think they are better than others and they use accusations of others claiming to be superior to them to hide behind.

                      "And while I am an asshole, I am still less of a gaping shithole than you will ever be."

                      My point proven. You call me condescending and still claim to be superior to me. Whom is really claiming to be superior here? My response this time is without any condescension or insult to show you that I am correct. You are not interested in meaningful discourse, you seek to hypocritically attack others in a concerted effort to marginalize those that think differently than you.

                      Your sneers are thinly veiled friend and I see right through them. You use the idea that I believe to be superior to others to justify your real belief that you think that you are superior to me.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • icon
                        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:37pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Do you not see the constant derision I face when coming to forum where everyone laughs and scoffs at me?

                        If you didn’t insult people by calling them “retards” and either implying or outright saying they are all too fucking stupid to understand your posts, maybe you wouldn’t be mocked so goddamn much.

                        But hey, you do you. I’m going to find something better to do that write another giant-ass reply to someone who keeps calling me a fucking moron and still expects me to take him seriously. Something truly productive and worthwhile—like masturbation.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                        • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
                          identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 5:45pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          "If you didn’t insult people by calling them “retards” and either implying or outright saying they are all too fucking stupid to understand your posts, maybe you wouldn’t be mocked so goddamn much."

                          I would be mocked regardless of how I respond. I have seen more than enough nice people being mocked, ridiculed, and mocked to know that you are being outright dishonest.

                          Just making the statement that "both political parties support big business" and no other words have received snide, rude, derisive, and bigoted comments here.

                          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                          • identicon
                            Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 8:59am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            No, you're mocked because your arguments make no sense and aren't based in reality, yet you continue to cling to them for dear life and when presented with evidence to the contrary, your only response is to insult our intelligence.

                            That is why you are mocked.

                            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                              identicon
                              Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 10:35am

                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                              "No, you're mocked because your arguments make no sense and aren't based in reality, yet you continue to cling to them for dear life and when presented with evidence to the contrary, your only response is to insult our intelligence."

                              With the evidence you bring of course I should insult your intelligence when you arrive that the conclusions that you do.

                              I am mocked because I reveal how easy it is to trick you people into doing things. Big Business has you suckered hard and just like the encryption backdoor debate you keep retarding harder in the same way James Comey ignorantly believes that it is possible to create a backdoor that only the "good guys" can use if you just "nerd-harder".

                              You folks need a t-shirt that says "Stupid-Harder" because all of your solutions are products of retarded thinking!

                              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                              • identicon
                                Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 12:01pm

                                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                Insult away, I'm guessing it will go something like "you're a retard".

                                Despite everything you say and how supposedly "weak" our evidence is, you have presented nothing and can't present anything to refute it. Your only resort is to call us stupid and retarded and I'm sorry but that doesn't cut it. We have facts and evidence to back up our claims, you have nothing so why should we believe you?

                                What evidence (links and citations and references to actual recorded history, not opinions and interpretations) can you present that will unequivocally prove us wrong? Present that and we can at least begin to have a discussion. Right now you're no better than a whiny brat who is throwing a tantrum because he can't get his way.

                                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                                  identicon
                                  Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 12:35pm

                                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                  "Despite everything you say and how supposedly "weak" our evidence is, you have presented nothing and can't present anything to refute it."

                                  How about all of the Evidence since 1934 when the FCC was formed? You are not interested in evidence, so stop lying. We have had them for nearly a century and we still have monopolies all over the place and my bills are still getting stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey. Even with the DOJ splitting up Ma Bell the FCC still blesses and supports natural monopolies.

                                  "Your only resort is to call us stupid and retarded and I'm sorry but that doesn't cut it."

                                  Come now silly human, that is not my only retort. I have explained many times why you are a bunch of retards, you just keep going red eye at being called what you are.

                                  "What evidence (links and citations and references to actual recorded history, not opinions and interpretations) can you present that will unequivocally prove us wrong?"

                                  Nearly a century of regulations failing, failing, and failing along with the revolving door between the FCC and Telco's that TD writes about often are that evidence. The problem is that you you arrive at a different conclusion because dogma requires you to.

                                  You see a broken window with a baseball nearby and your dogma demands that you blame the baseball. Sure that is evidence that the baseball is what broke the windows but it is not proof! The proof is from analyzing the video that recorded a person walking by with a hammer breaking the window and putting a ball inside so the owner would think it was just a bunch of kids playing.

                                  We need regulations that destroy ISP death grip monopolies on the internet, NOT a blind and ignorant set of regulations enforced by an agency we both see as currently corrupt.

                                  I keep telling you "retards" that giving your best friend power in government is the same as giving it to your worst enemy. NN allows the FCC to pick and choose which businesses are breaking NN regs and still has Zero Rating as a loop hole.

                                  "Present that and we can at least begin to have a discussion."

                                  I have presented this man times and you say I never do every time.

                                  "Right now you're no better than a whiny brat who is throwing a tantrum because he can't get his way."

                                  NN was destroyed, you are the whiny brat that didn't get their way. You can't even maintain context... another reason to call you a retard.

                                  You are a retard because you are "by definition" retarding a proper solution to this problem by holding onto failed regulatory agency as the solution to your problem.

                                  Or as Einstein puts it... "Doing the same thing over and over while expected different results is the definition of insanity"

                                  We have tried regulating these monopolies since 1934 and have failed the entire time. At which point do we give up your failed solutions? O right... "retard harder" next time yet again? At least you are consistent in that regard.

                                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission

                                  "The important relationship of the FCC and the American Telephone and Telegraph (AT&T) Company evolved over the decades. For many years, the FCC and state officials agreed to regulate the telephone system as a natural monopoly.[39] The FCC controlled telephone rates and imposed other restrictions under Title II to limit the profits of AT&T and ensure nondiscriminatory pricing."

                                  Right fucking there, since its inception it the FCC was created to bless the fucking monopolies!

                                  Was not the entire point to prevent these monopolies? They are monopolies therefore they are going to have loads of fucking money, YOUR MONEY, to bribe your politicians into whispering sweet nothings in your ear as they fuck you sideways. And you buy it every time!

                                  Excuse me if I refuse to live in your fantasy world and excuse me for trying to open your closed eyes!

                                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                                  • identicon
                                    Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 1:00pm

                                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                    I have presented this man times and you say I never do every time.

                                    Because you haven't, you claim you have but you haven't. You provide generalized statements with no link or references to recorded history that backup your statements. When you do provide a link, it is generally not what you claim it to be or is from an unreliable source.

                                    Your wikipedia example for instance. I have no objection to the use of wikipedia as a reference or citation, so that's fine. However, your quote is taken out of context and/or misinterpreted.

                                    Yes, they did regulate telephone companies as natural monopolies, as such, landline phone service is relatively inexpensive and reliable. Additionally, ISP's were classified under Title II up until 2002 and 2005 then they were re-classified under Title I. Let's compare how many dial-ISP providers were available prior to that time versus how many broadband providers there are after that.

                                    Even your statement about "all of the Evidence since 1934 when the FCC was formed" is disingenuous because you ignore all of the GOOD things that came out of FCC regulation, like EMF and RF compliance regulations.

                                    You sir, are the one not interested in facts, not us.

                                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                                      identicon
                                      Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2017 @ 5:46pm

                                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                                      "Your wikipedia example for instance. I have no objection to the use of wikipedia as a reference or citation, so that's fine. However, your quote is taken out of context and/or misinterpreted."

                                      so you "claim" that you are okay with the source right before you turn around and say I am taking it out of context to discredit me?

                                      "Yes, they did regulate telephone companies as natural monopolies,"

                                      That is the crux of the entire fucking problem, but you are intentionally IGNORING IT because "regulations will save us" bullshit dogma!

                                      We cannot get anywhere else until the monopolies are destroyed. NN is just a lie to sweet talk retards like you to sleep at night. You are still going to get fucked over by the ISP's in other ways and through the zero rating loophole.

                                      Again... as long as the monopolies are allowed to exist, you lose! No matter how much you window dress the bullshit that is NN you will not win! ISP's will just buy your political champions off and you will be sold down the river just like always!

                                      We NEED NN to fall so that states will wake up and put a finger in the FCC's face! You are already being spied on, for now I will settle for municipal broadband if for nothing other than to wreck the fucking ISP's!

                                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Chip, 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:36pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  You "stupid" Retards don't Get "it", because you are not Smart, like Me! I am very, Very Smart. So smart. So "smart" your Stupid "retard" brains cannot even Understand how "smart" I am.

                  If All "regulations" were "removed" then we would have Competition! It's so "Simple"! It's like Winston Churchill said: Let them eat "cake"!

                  Step 1: Remove regulations.
                  Step 3: Competition!

                  I can't "dumb it Down" any more for you then that! Stupid!

                  Don't ask about Step 2! I already explained Step 2! Shut up! I have explained Step 2 "lots and Lots" of times! So many times! I'm not going to "explain" it again after all those Other Times I explained it before! Stupid!

                  You just need to "remove REGULTIONS" t o get Competitoin! Like how if there werent REgulations on Lead Paint, there would be more "competition" in lead Paint! Then I could pick the Best Lead Paint that the Free "market" had to Offer!

                  Every Nation eats the Paint chips it Deserves!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                    identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 4:52pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Your Trump impersonation is pretty good Chip.

                    Which paint chip did you eat to get that skill?

                    "If All "regulations" were "removed" then we would have Competition!"

                    FYI, I have never said or claimed that. You just like to claim that because lies are your stock and trade when wanting to discredit someone.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    peter, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:15pm

    Hmmmmm

    AS soon a I read the headline, my first thought was 'the politicians in New York must have seen how much kickbacks were being handed out in congress and thought "hmmmmm, I have an idea how to boost my election coffers. How about I propose a net neutrality law. Those telecoms companies will come a' running."'

    Me? A cynic? Only been called that by people who know me.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2017 @ 12:18pm

    "The government already had carte blanche to spy on American citizens."

    Yes, but apparently I should have made my post more concise. I have to keep remembering that you guys have blinders on. This would give "local" governments carte blanche to spy on it's citizens where municipal access is constructed.

    "And any state-level regulatory law for ISPs should include network neutrality as an obligatory principle."

    What government "should do" and what it "does do" have historically proven to be at odds with each other.

    "Competition between companies should be focused on who has the better service"

    THIS is what I advocate for. Laws and regulations that help ensure that fair competition is easy to achieve! NN does not do this and never will. If we can remove the protectionist laws/regulations protecting these government blessed monopolies we will get NN automatically because any competitor will use it as a hook to gain customers.

    And WHAM a free-market principle giving us what we wanted without it even having to be a law for idiot politicians to fuck up to begin with!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2017 @ 10:14pm

      Re:

      Which Pai's system would not provide... but you were too busy jacking off at his success just to thumb your nose at everyone else. Just to assuage your sense of superiority by screaming "YOU DESERVE PAI, I DON'T CARE WHAT NATIONALITY YOU ARE."

      I might have congratulated you for posting something that might be construed as barely constructive, but after having to sift through metric ass-tons of your insults it clearly isn't worth the effort.

      Nice going, retard.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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