Arizona Legislators Approve Bill That Would Allow Government To Seize Assets From Protesters

from the police-state-groundwork dept

Building legislation on top of the political equivalent of an urban myth is never a good idea. Fold in something routinely abused by law enforcement and you've got a proposed bill whose short name should be "Shit Sandwich."

That's the (tentative) plan in Arizona, where the existential threat of "paid protesters" has resulted in a terrible bill that promises to use a handful of Constitutional amendments as a doormat. (via Raw Story)

SB1142 expands the state’s racketeering laws, now aimed at organized crime, to also include rioting. And it redefines what constitutes rioting to include actions that result in damage to the property of others.

Nothing good can come from the expansion of racketeering laws, which are already abused by government agencies and citizens alike. But it gets worse. A lot worse. It doesn't just apply to protesters who damage property. It applies to anyone possibly connected to a protest in which damage occurs, even if they don't induce or encourage the destruction. (Perhaps even if they speak out against violent acts, but still support the demonstration's premise.)

And, to top it all off, police officers would not only be authorized to arrest people engaged in First Amendment activity just because someone down the street broke a window, but also to enrich themselves in the process.

But the real heart of the legislation is what Democrats say is the guilt by association — and giving the government the right to criminally prosecute and seize the assets of everyone who planned a protest and everyone who participated. And what’s worse, said Sen. Steve Farley, D-Tucson, is that the person who may have broken a window, triggering the claim there was a riot, might actually not be a member of the group but someone from the other side.

Supporters of asset forfeiture always claim it's a great tool for defunding criminal ventures. I can only imagine the verbal gymnastics that will need to be deployed to justify taking cash, cars, whatever from protesters, especially when the state's existing laws already criminalize rioting but without the added "bonus" of depriving rioters of their cash, homes, cars, etc. Do the legislators actually believe protesters are being paid in small, unmarked bills and mid-priced sedans?

The "guilt by association" aspect allows law enforcement to apply its discretion, which is seldom a good thing. The moment anything is damaged, it's open season on protest attendees. In fact, it's open season on non-attendees as well, if cops can dredge up anything that appears to be evidence of protest planning. Acquiring a permit pre-demonstration is no longer an act of good faith. It's self-incriminating.

One supporter of this truly stupid legislation believes the state's existing riot laws don't work because… wait for it… the bail system exists.

Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said the new criminal laws are necessary.

“I have been heartsick with what’s been going on in our country, what young people are being encouraged to do,’’ she said.

She agreed with Quezada that there already are laws that cover overt acts. But Allen said they don’t work.

“If they get thrown in jail, somebody pays to get them out,’’ she said. “There has to be something to deter them from that.’’

I don't often can't even, but... here we are. People have argued against the bail system because it's stacked against the poorest criminal suspects, but I've never heard the system portrayed as faulty because it works exactly the way it's intended to. And the new law wouldn't change anything this legislator is concerned about. Brand new criminal charges stemming from the stupid bill would still allow suspects to post bail. The only difference is they may not have the cash to do it or a car to drive home if they make bail. Maybe that's what Allen is referring to: extra layers of punitiveness because most current protests are targeting the senator's party -- which also happens to be the party in power at the moment.

This made it past a House Senate vote in Arizona, suggesting the state's craziness isn't confined to Maricopa County. It won't survive a Constitutional challenge if it somehow manages to stumble out the governor's desk without being vetoed.

Filed Under: arizona, asset forfeiture, civil asset forfeiture, first amendment, free speech, protests, racketeering, rico, riot, snowflake


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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:45am

    Wlll the cop bother be out of uniform when the window gets broken?

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    • icon
      Bergman (profile), 26 Feb 2017 @ 2:42pm

      Re:

      Depending on how the law is written, it might even apply to the 'damage' incurred to a tear gas grenade by it being deployed into a peaceful crowd.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:45am

    >“If they get thrown in jail, somebody pays to get them out,’’ she said. “There has to be something to deter them from that.’’

    You could always just not arrest them. Oh wait, this is from and an appeal to the same ilk that thinks an arrest is just a conviction by another name. Carry on then with your regularly scheduled burning of the constitution.

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  • identicon
    Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:47am

    This made it past a House vote in Arizona, suggesting the state's craziness isn't confined to Maricopa County.

    Hey, man, we voted Arpaio out by double digits.

    Granted, we gave him six terms first, but better late than never.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Michael, 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:48am

    1) Be an asshat so people protest you
    2) While they are protesting, break your own window
    3) Sell the protester's stuff
    4) Profit!

    The only problem is I now have a broken window. There should be a way to force the protesters to pay for that as well.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:51am

      Re:

      It's just the cost of doing business. You just use a little bit of the proceeds to fix the window, and you've still made a massive profi-I mean stopped the ne'erdowells.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Michael, 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:57am

        Re: Re:

        Why should the cost of the window come out of the pocket of the victim?

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        • icon
          sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 10:17am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Michael asked:

          Why should the cost of the window come out of the pocket of the victim?

          Bureaucratic hassles notwithstanding, under already-existing Arizona law, it doesn't have to.

          Arizona Revised Statutes § 13-603:

          C. If a person is convicted of an offense, the court shall require the convicted person to make restitution to the person who is the victim of the crime or to the immediate family of the victim if the victim has died, in the full amount of the economic loss as determined by the court and in the manner as determined by the court or the court's designee pursuant to chapter 8 of this title.

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    • icon
      Machin Shin (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 10:13am

      Re:

      Well you see, that is what insurance is for. They pay for your window, or building (You know, if your looking to remodel you just break the window with a Molotov instead of a rock.)

      Then you also get all the money and any nice things the protesters have on them. Who knows, you might get lucky and find some nice furniture in the protestors offices.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      ShadowNinja (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 11:13am

      Re:

      I'd prefer these steps instead.

      1) Find something that politicians who support this bill and civil asset forfeiture oppose.

      2) Organize a protest opposing that same thing those politicians oppose.

      3) Get someone to break some stuff at that protest.

      4) Use the very power of this new law to confiscate the assets of said politicians who backed this law, by arguing that through their public statements on the issue they were a part of the group of protesters, even if said politicians weren't even there at the protest.

      5) Watch as the politicians are forced to suddenly take asset forfeiture laws and abuse their seriously when they're suddenly the ones being robbed by it.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        mhajicek (profile), 25 Feb 2017 @ 10:00am

        Re: Re:

        All that needs happen is that something gets broken in a session of the senate. They were participating in a gathering in which something was broken (a riot), and so all their assets are forfeit.

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  • icon
    sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 9:59am

    Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said the new criminal laws are necessary. ... “If they get thrown in jail, somebody pays to get them out,’’ she said. “There has to be something to deter them from that.’’

    Ooh! Maybe they could also seize the assets of people who pay the bail for to get people out. And seize the assets of defense attorneys too! I mean, why stop at just an attack on the constitutional rights of protesters? Need to bring the whole criminal enterprise down, amirite?

    ....

    On a related note, R-Snowflake is just a little too on-the-nose.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:18pm

      Re:

      When you go to bail them out, you take the bus and leave your car at home, so they cannot take it when you come to bail the person out.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Cowardly Lion, 27 Feb 2017 @ 4:07am

      Re:

      I don't normally make personal remarks about people, but I'll make an exception for Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake.

      She reminds me of Dolores Umbridge.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Wendy Cockcroft, 27 Feb 2017 @ 5:36am

        Re: Re:

        Yeah, I've noticed these people are especially sensitive to criticism. I wonder if it's anything to do with "Taking our country back?"

        If so, it makes you wonder who "we" are. It doesn't seem to include the vast majority of Americans.

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  • identicon
    PostMortemBoredom, 24 Feb 2017 @ 10:06am

    To Sen. Sylvia Allen

    Here's how you fix the problem.

    #1 Get rid of tyrants in Government.
    #2 Get rid of tyrants in the Police, Sherrif's, ATF's, FBI's, CIA's, NSA's ranks.
    #3 Pull your head from your ass and look at the Constitution you swore to uphold when you took office.
    Guess what, you're not doing your job.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 10:25am

    Snowflake?

    Wait. 'Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake ...' ?
    There are snowflake conservatives now?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 11:06am

    That is one good reason to carry the right kind of jammer with you. If a cop decides to use one of these ERAD machines to run your bank card and drain the money from your adccout, you just turn on the jammer, and prevent his ERAD machine from being able to access your account.

    ERAD machines need wireless Internet connectivitity to work, so if you can jam 2g/3g/4g/5g/Wifi/Wimax frequencies, you can prevent the ERAD machine from working

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 11:14am

    Also, keep a second cell phone, with Location Services on, concealed in your car. So that if they take your car, you find where they took ip, using the GPS on your concealed phone, then you sneak in there in the middle of the night and take your car back.

    Google's find my android can be very useful for that.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 11:57am

      Re:

      What, you think they leave cars in the middle of a corn maze and not a fenced, guarded compound? And unless you wire a charger to a power line that is on when the car is off, your cell phone will be dead well before you hit the streets again. Lastly, if your phone is concealed it will not be getting GPS signals.

      Other than those problems, it's a brilliant plan.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:29pm

        Re: Re:

        There are places to conceal a phone where it can still get GPS signals. I do that all the time when I am road trips in case my car is ever stolen. If the car is stolen, I can go get it myself, instead of calling the police.

        That happen to me once. Someone did take my car on a joyride and left it as a gas station parking lot. I was able to use the GPS tracking the phone to find my car, and not have to call the police.

        There are places to conceal a cell phone, or any kind of tracking device where NOBODY would ever think to look for it, where it could still receive a signal.

        Having a hidden tracker is a good idea in case your car is ever stolen.

        As for being in a fenced compound, a pair of bolt cutters would take care of the padlock on the fence.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Michael Schundler, 24 Feb 2017 @ 11:50am

    Violent Protests

    I think the vast majority of Americans support the right of people to assemble and peacefully protest. I think the numbers shrink, when that protest is intended to disrupt someone else's right to free speech. You don't have a right to force people to hear you when they don't want to. Finally, the numbers shrink to a small number when protests involve property damage or personal assaults or any other sort of violence.

    So given the media and social networks there are a huge number of outlets in which to express oneself. Similarly, there are plenty of public spaces in which to express oneself. Your cause or belief does not trump (pardon the pun) the rights of others. Intentionally disrupting speeches by people you don't agree with should come under civil disobedience.

    Civil disobedience means you break the law to make a point, but it also means you accept the responsibility and consequences of doing so. Anyone thinking free speech protects from the consequences of their actions is wrong. Back in my youth people burned draft cards and accepted the consequences. Today people seem to forget the "consequences" part of their actions.

    At the same time we got lost about what the right of free speech really means. It was intended to protect people from the government suppressing their ability to criticize the government. It was never intended to be used as a weapon to suppress others trying to express themselves. Again that would come under civil disobedience and includes accepting the legal consequences of doing so.

    There should be consequences for disrupting a meeting of others... people incurred cost and time to hear someone speak and your rights of free speech don't override their right to hear what they came to the location for. It really is that simple.

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    • identicon
      bob, 24 Feb 2017 @ 12:15pm

      Re: Violent Protests

      As you pointed out the freedom of speech is designed to stop government officials. Here we have a law that is being written to stifle free speech because those in power don't like the consequences of their bad decisions. People get mad when politicians and police abuse their power.

      Now that outrage doesn't excuse violence or destruction and in a private venue you will be escorted out. However people have a right to assemble and speak out against what they see as wrong. Doesn't matter if it is physically in person or virtually.

      There already are laws on the books prohibiting destruction of property. They need to just enforce those laws. If they can't catch the suspects of the crime then they are just going to have to make a better effort next time.

      Abusing citizens rights because of a few bad apples is not okay. Just like punishing all police because of a few bad apples is also wrong. The problem is police and politicians can hide behind a desk or badge while citizens have nothing to help them due to efforts to stack the deck in favor of the police and politicians through bad laws.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 12:36pm

      Re: Violent Protests

      This is pointing out that you could be standing next to a protest, someone breaks a window, then you get your stuff taken with this law. I don't think you would be for this if your stuff got taken away and you were arrested just because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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    • identicon
      Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 3:01pm

      Re: Violent Protests

      You don't have a right to force people to hear you when they don't want to.

      Funny, I don't recall that exemption in the First Amendment.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        The Wanderer (profile), 25 Feb 2017 @ 4:25am

        Re: Re: Violent Protests

        Actually, he's right about that part. If you had a right to force people to hear you, then for a third party to delete your comments on their Website - or even to prevent you from posting them in the first place - would be unconstitutional.

        He's just wrong about what that means in practice.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 8:12am

          Re: Re: Re: Violent Protests

          You will have to remove my noise suppression device from my cold dead ears - that sounded better before I typed it.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Thad, 26 Feb 2017 @ 8:08pm

          Re: Re: Re: Violent Protests

          Actually, he's right about that part.

          I guess it depends on what you mean by "force people to hear you".

          I mean, no, you can't take somebody's earplugs out if they're wearing them.

          But you absolutely can engage in offensive speech in a public space where you know people are going to be offended by it. I'm thinking specifically of the Westboro Baptist Church. The courts have repeatedly upheld their right to picket funerals.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 8:07pm

      Re: Violent Protests

      I imagine you were one of those gleefully cheering the police on with their fire hoses and dogs during the civil rights protests. Give 'em what they deserve, eh?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    dlaurels (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 12:32pm

    protestors

    This has to be unconstitutional. What to heck are these GOP controlled legislators thinking? Trump will be gone in the not too distant future and so will these anti-constitutional politicians. None too soon, in my opinion.

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    • identicon
      Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 3:05pm

      Re: protestors

      What to heck are these GOP controlled legislators thinking?

      That they're in Arizona.

      Trump will be gone in the not too distant future

      Maybe.

      and so will these anti-constitutional politicians.

      You're not from around here.

      It's true that Arpaio was voted out of office by a significant margin, but before that he served six terms.

      It's true that Russell Pearce was recalled, but before that he was Senate President.

      It's true that Andy Thomas was disbarred, but before that he was County Attorney.

      Yes, we do occasionally throw a bum out (see also Governors Mecham and Symington). But for the most part, people in Arizona love their bums.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Wendy Cockcroft, 27 Feb 2017 @ 5:44am

        Re: Re: protestors

        They just don't have a problem with authoritarianism until they're subjected to it, amirite?

        Sigh!

        This is how authoritarians win, people: they convince their adherents that it's for "other people," specifically, "the bad guys," not "everyone everywhere." Yes, there are exceptions, but "I didn't mean YOU" is subjective and arbitrarily applied according to how well-connected you are. It seems to me that "Check your privilege" doesn't mean "Drop it," it means "Ensure that your privileged status is secure. If not, make it so."

        Authoritarianism, as I keep on saying, is EVERYBODY'S problem. It happens on every side of the political spectrum and should NEVER be tolerated. Freedom for me ultimately means freedom for thee. Remember that.

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  • identicon
    IfWeAllResistTogetherWeAllWin, 24 Feb 2017 @ 12:45pm

    Unjust laws should be resisted

    I'm reminded of an old saying that's pretty popular among the right wing.

    You can take my property "when you pry it from my cold, dead hands."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:07pm

    This can't be real. If it is then I hope this is the "Ahh" moment for poor "working class" Republican voters. They don't care about you or their favorite word "the Constitution. It's all about money, power and control. And if it is then you would make the best decisions for you and your family and stop falling for the boogie man that "they" tell you is out to get or take from you. And see "they" are the ones that are ACTUALLY doing so.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wendy Cockcroft, 27 Feb 2017 @ 5:53am

      Re: George Wallace Rides Again

      In the wake of his defeat, Wallace adopted a hard-line segregationist stance and used this stand to court the white vote in the next gubernatorial election in 1962. When a supporter asked why he started using racist messages, Wallace replied, "You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about n__s, and they stomped the floor." - Wikipedia

      Until you can persuade the dimwits to stop stomping the damn floor when the Two Minutes' Hate call rings out, we're doomed to perpetually repeat the Boogeyman Game cycle. The name of the boogeyman and the scapegoat(s) may change but the principle is the same. It's why I refuse to play the partisan pattycake game.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Thad, 28 Feb 2017 @ 8:48am

        Re: Re: George Wallace Rides Again

        Arpaio is a more recent, and closer to home, example. He was always authoritarian, but he didn't get into the anti-immigrant routine until after he'd been in office awhile. Once he realized how popular it made him, he made it the basis of everything he did.

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  • identicon
    Jordan, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:26pm

    It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

    Wow, it seams that everyone that didn't used to care about the Constitution has become an expert on it now, I do agree that the bill we're discussing is poorly written, and as it is at this moment unconstitutional, but everyone's claim of protesting and rioting being the same thing is ludicrous.
    If you're protesting you aren't breaking windows or threatening people with violence, also I don't think being a "Paid Protester" should be protected by the first amendment, as it isn't your opinion that's being voiced it's the opinion of whoever is paying you.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:31pm

      Re: It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

      also I don't think being a "Paid Protester" should be protected by the first amendment, as it isn't your opinion that's being voiced it's the opinion of whoever is paying you.

      Citizens United is the law of the land.

      What they fail to realize is that shit works both ways, and they don't like it.

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    • icon
      sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:30pm

      Re: It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

      I'm not sure how seriously I can take the argument of someone who believes that protesters are being paid.

      Actually, scratch that. The answer is not seriously at all.

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    • identicon
      Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 3:06pm

      Re: It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

      everyone's claim of protesting and rioting being the same thing is ludicrous.

      Can you show me an example of "everyone" claiming this?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:05pm

        Re: Re: It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

        It's the same "everyone" who never cared about the Constitution before. It's good to be omniscient.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 8:15am

      Re: It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

      "as it isn't your opinion that's being voiced it's the opinion of whoever is paying you."

      Hmmm ... all those television ads

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2017 @ 11:37am

      Re: It's Constitunal only when it suits you I guess

      "Wow, it seams that everyone that didn't used to care about the Constitution has become an expert on it now, "

      Yup - all those constitution carrying tea baggerz now think they know everything there is to know about the constitution because they carry one in their pocket - many have not actually read it though.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Apollyon, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:33pm

    Seizure

    The billionaire George Soros is funding most of the paid protest, seize his assets, help pay down the federal debt, I grantee you will see the protest stop.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:55pm

      Re: Seizure

      Yeah, because the shitty job everyone's doing right now couldn't possibly be the reason for the protesting.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:26pm

      Re: Seizure

      I've been out protesting on a regular basis and all I got is this (not lousy, in fact it's pretty comfortable) ACLU t-shirt.

      Where are my Sorosbucks? Do I need to fill out another W-4 or something?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:41pm

      Re: Seizure

      Where can I sign up? It must be an easy gig to land considering how prevalent the right wingers say it is.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:54pm

        Re: Re: Seizure

        $1500 a week, paid travel, plenty of time outdoors in the fresh air (tear gas and pepper spray notwithstanding).

        I'll need to know more about paid vacation time and health benefits before I commit, though.

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    • icon
      orbitalinsertion (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:15pm

      Re: Seizure

      Good morning, Mr.Orbán.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 8:18am

      Re: Seizure

      Even if your ridiculous belief were the case, the protests would continue.

      Do you really think that the oppressed enjoy being kicked to the curb and will do nothing about it until they are paid? That's messed up man, wtf is wrong with you?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wendy Cockcroft, 27 Feb 2017 @ 5:56am

      Re: Seizure

      Communist much, Apollyon? That's what it's called when the state seizes your stuff and redistributes your wealth, even if they call themselves "Republican."

      The trouble with obsessive hating is that sooner or later you actually become the enemy. It's why I don't hate.

      I do point and laugh, though.

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  • identicon
    Pamela, 24 Feb 2017 @ 1:58pm

    Seizure

    We as a country are becoming COMMUNISTIC faster than we can take a bowel moment....soon there will be NO individual freedoms left. Sad. NOT proud to be American anymore....

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:10pm

    I submitted this as an idea for a story. Was hoping for a breakdown of the language of the bill- explaining exactly how it is, or isn't, so over-broad.

    Dem's/Republicans are stating sharply contrasting views on what the bill actually says, and who it applies to. Dem's statments are very much in line with what's written here.

    Rep's say it only applies to people who deliberately and directly conspire to violence and/or property destruction- that it wouldn't apply otherwise.

    Which is it, and why?

    Also- why/how are there two bills with the same designation? SB-1142 is also used for another unrelated AZ bill; what's up with that?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:28pm

    Justice

    This could be a slippery slope, but left leaning protestors deserve it. Are you honorable? Honor is a fundamental principle in law. A Judge is Your Honor or The Honorable. Given he is not honorable than he is a false judge and a hypocrite.

    Justice is a fundamental need of man. One of the first things Moses did as he lead Israel out of Egypt was give law, and make judges. A Judge is an honorable man people may submit to. Two men have a dispute, and they submit to a judges authority because he is honorable, and they respect his judgement. He hears their case. He settles their dispute. Dispute over.

    Do you like being lied to? STOP LYING. There are certain people who are hypocrites and deviants that like to lie to people and spread deceptions. They are Saul Alinskey's. They belong in jail or dead for what they do. They are dividers and not uniters and the left shields them. They need to be exposed as harlots and hypocrites.

    I started seeing myself as Peter the Roman. I have been shepherding people online. Given I was some sort of King and found myself in an Oligarchy, I may start seizing property like I was The King of France.

    Wealthy people who promote communism and socialism are self-defeating.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:42pm

      Re: Justice

      >I started seeing myself as Peter the Roman.

      Seek help.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:50pm

        Re: Re: Justice

        The Stone Rejected by The Builders Becomes the Chief Cornerstone. (Psalms 118:22)(Luke 20:9-19)(1 Peter 2)

        You may be in for some hurt.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 2:57pm

          Re: Re: Re: Justice

          Seek help. (Me, a harlot.)

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 3:08pm

          Re: Re: Re: Justice

          Hey, I know you. Didn't I see you ranting on a street corner?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 3:43pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

            Are you in Durham, NC like I am the Blue Devil? Then you did not see me.

            It is really easy. It takes some basic reading comprehension but I guess you are blind and deaf in sin like Robin Thicke "Blurred Lines?"

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:01pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

              Are you in Durham, NC like I am the Blue Devil? Then you did not see me.

              http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne

              It is really easy. It takes some basic reading comprehension but I guess you are blind and deaf in sin like Robin Thicke "Blurred Lines?"

              I'm more of a Weird Al fan.

              Which is appropriate, given that you're more of a Wordcrimes kind of guy.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                sorrykb (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:26pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                Thad wrote:

                http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne

                Goddammit Thad. [Closes techdirt, revealing 87 open TV Tropes tabs]

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:32pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                I am not insulting you. I am chastising you for being blind and deaf.

                I walk up to a girl at a bar. I talk to her. She likes me. She has a friend. She calls her friend a whore, and makes fun of her. Her friend just takes it. Am I to believe she is innocent and good and pure, and her friend was bad, or is she playing off her sin on her friend?

                Hillary Clinton mentions fake news and Right Wing Conspiracies. Hillary Clinton is not a virtuous woman. She is a proven liar. She is playing off her sins on someone else. She deflects instead of doing the right thing. She digs a hole and keeps digging. Do you support a Hillary Clinton? You are a harlot.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:44pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                  Why are you in a bar hitting on women!!!

                  I thought those were places of villainy.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Thad, 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:49pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                  I am not insulting you. I am chastising you for being blind and deaf.

                  I never actually said you were insulting me, dogg, but now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure calling a dude "blind and deaf" is insulting.

                  Do you support a Hillary Clinton?

                  Do they come in six packs?

                  You are a harlot.

                  I don't even own a motorcycle.

                  She digs a hole and keeps digging.

                  I look forward to your next post!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:04pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                  the only truth is that everything can be a lie as you can not absolutely prove anything.

                  "Do you like being lied to? STOP LYING"
                  i'm not sure i follow, do you mean to say that if a person does not lie, then no one will lie to them? how can that work on a macro level? my baby doesn't lie, but he hears Trump say that "he's the least racist person ever"... the turd burger just lied to my child who has never lied. or are you saying we're all lying so we don't deserve truth? or maybe it's only your truth that matters and everyone should learn from it?

                  i don't know dude, you sound pretty desperate and i hope you have some friends to talk to. if not, feel free to preach on...though TD comment section on an article about govt over reach is a bit misplaced IMHO.

                  /troll fed

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:06pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                  I am more of a prodigal son. I learned some hard lessons, and found God in a big way.

                  The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.” (Matthew 11:19)

                  I am not Jesus. That is not fake news.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:17pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                    you can't find what does not exist my friend. I think you only found yourself.

                    i don't subscribe to being told what to do by some dusty ass book that was put together in just the last two thousand years by asshats who worked to control populations and that also is so full of falsities you might as well call it info wars or breitbart or trump.

                    saying fake news is cool though right? its fake news when i don't like what that news guy says. plus if i don't like one thing about them i should hate the rest...because that's what that non-white guy would have done 2018 years ago.

                    anyways... so back to it... do you support the government taking things that don't belong to them? should we get a tax break when the gov't takes our stuff, since we already paid taxes on it likely? do they pay off my loan when they take my car or do i get to pay that too?

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:01pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                      I lived in Murfreesboro, TN. I walked home from the bar one night doing the right thing. I ended up arrested. I minded my own business. I hurt no one. I don't remember talking to anyone at the bar other than the bartender. I was celebrating, and I kept it to myself. I walked home.

                      I ended up in jail for 27 days. In Murfreesboro, TN, that is Rutherford Country, you need a Co-Signer to bail out. I had room on my credit card. If my bail was $1000 or $100 with a bail bondsmen, I offered to pay the $1000. I go to court. I get my money back. It helps my credit. I stayed in jail 27 days. My 8th Amendment Rights were violated.

                      Progressives have become a Luciferian Joke and so are you. They seem more interested in Bruce Jenner and allowing women into men's bathrooms them justice or anything good.

                      As far as I am concerned you are a failure at life. Do you know who I do not listen to? Luciferian weirdos who think they figured it out, and know better than the last 2000 or more years of history. People who believe they know better than God because their dad or mom was a hippie and more stupid than Jenny from Forest Gump.

                      http://rocksteadyarmy.blogspot.com/

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2017 @ 7:52am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                        I was with you up until the last two paragraphs.

                        Why do you claim that all members of a group you dislike exhibit the same negative characteristics which trigger your anger? Is it just easier for you that way?

                        What is a progressive? This term has been abused to the point that it no longer has meaning without context.

                        I had to look at the prior post a second time ... I saw nothing referring to Bruce or restrooms, what are you going on about? You think that when someone disagrees with you this means they are also guilty of everything you dislike? - wow

                        What is your criteria for being a success at life?

                        Do I care to whom you do not listen?

                        I think you are a bit weird but being weird does not make one a failure, neither does it make one a luciferian - whatever that is.

                        What specifically has the modern world "figured out" that you believe is incorrect?

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:12pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                      Your name is anonymous coward. I am not. You care to know what I am about?

                      https://www.facebook.com/adam.ramsey.372

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  orbitalinsertion (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:26pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                  What are you even talking about? The girl in the bar is a left-wing protester?

                  Sure, Hillary Clinton is a liar. Are you claiming that there are those in politics who are not? Apparently in the right wing? Maybe a certain special someone?

                  Please don't confuse being blind and deaf with an inability to buy your particular sort of bullshit.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • icon
                    ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:53pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                    It really has nothing to do with politics.

                    Secular Humanism is like Jodie. It is bad fruit, and all the ideologies associated with it, are false idols in someone's heart. Some men worship themselves. They believe that man can solve all the world's problems outside of God. God has a plan. Do you ask him? His plan is The Kingdom of God.

                    Some men worship themselves. They are Luciferians who would like to be their own god. They worked to secularize pagan ideas or rituals, and hide them in plain sight. The last few years Burning Man concert has been in the news a lot. Did you know that Burning Man was a Pagan Celtic ritual which may of had to do with human sacrifice? Did you know that a lot of what goes on at Burning Man is a continuation of the Counter Culture from the 1960's, and a rejection of God?

                    The Counter Culture and Secular Humanism are false idols in someone's heart. God controls his Spirit like a dial on your car radio. He may turn it down when people fall deep into wickedness and idolatry. Don't be a Jodie.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biWZRRELe-w

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      ManonFire (profile), 24 Feb 2017 @ 7:12pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                      Reasons I know Pizzagate not false news. In spring 2014, I started seeing myself as "Not Jesus." You can click on my facebook to figure out why.

                      And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. (2 Kings 2:9)

                      I am not Jesus like the song. I was aware of some "Eyes Wide Shut." I know have proof.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2017 @ 7:58am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                        Wow - ok then.

                        What is it, exactly, that you wish to accomplish here?

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2017 @ 10:11am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                        Okay now I know you are just joking with people on this site. To actually believe that a pizza store was doing human trafficking because an article on the web said so is beyond stupid. We're you the one that went to the store with guns to free the hostages?

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Thad, 28 Feb 2017 @ 8:53am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justice

                        Wait, it took you until 2014 to clear up the question of whether or not you were Jesus?

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 8:22am

      Re: Justice

      Can anyone send you emails?
      Do you have a newsletter?

      Inquiring minds want to know.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    End The Reign Of Trump!, 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:07pm

    Violating our rights

    That Trump and his Nazi cops better not fuck with me or my brothers or we will knock their Nazi punk assholes out!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 4:13pm

    When it comes to asset seizure, one you thing you need, with cops carrying these ERAD devuces, is a jammer that will prevent the devices.

    With ERAD they can run your bankcards and take every penny from your account, which is why, if you take road trips, like I do, you need a jammer that block wireless internet frequencies that ERAD needs.

    When a cop lights, you just flick on your jammer. If the cop wants to see your cards, he will unable to get anything from your your bank accounts, because ERAD machine will be unable to get on the Internet, on account of being jammed.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:06pm

      Re:

      IMAL: but as the saying goes... they find that jammer and you gonna see the insides of the slammer


      but with the deregulation coming and trumplandia getting rid of rules, who knows maybe this opens back up.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:38pm

        Re: Re:

        The cop will never suspect he being jammed. All he will get is an error message. He will never suspect you are jamming his device.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:40pm

        Re: Re:

        FCC rules only ban jamming voice communications on the cellular bans, not data. Jamming data is not illegal under federal law.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 3:04pm

        Re: Re:

        There is a new very expensive jammer model out there that will keep the antennae seperate from the jammer itself, so you could hide the jammer where a cop would never find it. This jammer costs about $3500, plus shipping and sales tax, but if it keeps you from getting your money taken it is worth it.

        With your jammer hidden from view, the cop will never figure out his ERAD device is being jammed.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 6:02pm

      Re:

      While jamming is one option, another option, if you are on a road trip is to only have your PayPal card with keep the page for shutting down your card handy.

      This way when the cop wants you see your card,you can, after he walks way, quickly go to that page, and shut down your card, so that when he runs it and tries to take anyting, the transaction will be declined by PayPal.

      If your bank has the option to instantly shut down your card, via the website, just keep that page, and when the cop walks over to run your card through his machine, quickly go to that page, and deactivate your card, causing your bank to decline the transaction.

      Unlike with jammers, there is no criminal statute that could be used against you.

      To find out whether this will work, check your bank's website, find that page, and then bookmark it.

      That cop will have no idea what is going on when your card gets declined.

      Paypal DOES have this, other banks and prepaid cards probably have this.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 7:04pm

        Re: Re:

        One other way to do it, depending on what kind of car you have is to find a place the bulk of your bank credit cards and just have a prepaid card, such as NetSpend or Momentum with only a couple hundred bucks on it.

        If a cop wants to see your cards, you show him the one card, and if he asks if you have any other cards, you just lie to him and tell him no.

        And there are places you can hide your cards, in most cards, where a cop will NEVER find them.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Feb 2017 @ 5:36pm

    WTF? loony trolls in the comments, and people giving them a feast.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Laura, 25 Feb 2017 @ 8:01am

    This article is garbage. I wouldn’t believe a word of it--except that these rioters are paid in full by the Leftists.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 8:27am

      Re:

      Say ... wanna buy a bridge?
      I'm offering discounted elevator tickets this week only.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 25 Feb 2017 @ 5:16pm

      Re:

      So you don't believe actual press coverage and statements by the politicians involved, but you do believe what I understand to be overblown hype regarding 'paid protesters'?

      Truly, your selective eyesight is a marvel of modern visual ability.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    dobbie606 (profile), 25 Feb 2017 @ 11:51am

    meh...a lot of it about

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Araqeeb
    https://electronicintifada.net/tags/al-araqib
    ...Al-Araqib, in the Naqab desert in the south of present-day Israel, has been razed 101 times already since 2010...Israeli authorities filed another lawsuit urging the court to order al-Araqib’s residents to pay a daily fine of 5,000 shekels (around $1280).

    Moreover, the villagers have also been sued for the cost of the first eight demolitions of their village, for which Israel is seeking 1.8 million shekels ($467,000)...
    https://www.rt.com/news/349419-israel-palestinian-village-demolishion/ Midnight10 says,
    Aw, that makes Obama and Netanyahu so proud. Almost as proud as bulldozing a 300 year old Palestinian cemetery to lay the foundation for the Israeli Museum of Tolerance. Talk about an oxymoron. Bedouins won't give up...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 12:09pm

    "Don't protest, or else."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 25 Feb 2017 @ 1:36pm

      Re:

      Yeah, that's the ticket.
      Bend over and take it, because otherwise you're unamerican, and then ask - Why is everyone so gay?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    CClark, 27 Feb 2017 @ 11:52am

    Maybe the rioters will get the hint. Maybe the people who protest along with rioters will get the hint. Maybe protesters will work WITH law enforcement to identify rioters for appropriate legal action. Protester should have ZERO tolerance for violence of ANY kind at their events. I am confident that if the protesters offer up good faith assistance to police so the rioters will get what is coming to them, the legitimate protesters will be fine.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Thad, 28 Feb 2017 @ 8:51am

    FYI, the bill's been killed in the House. Apparently there was some pretty serious backlash from the public.

    I just heard the Speaker on the radio hemming and hawing that it wasn't a bad bill, just misunderstood. So I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back with slightly more careful wording. But we can take this as a win for now.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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