We Need A More Serious Discussion About Suicide And AI Chatbots

from the missing-the-mark dept

As someone who thinks a lot about AI and suicide, I was disappointed with John Oliver’s recent episode of Last Week Tonight on “AI Chatbots.”

The segment boiled down to this: chatbots exploit vulnerable people, drive them toward delusion and harm, and AI companies aren’t meaningfully trying to fix them. If anything, as John Oliver suggested, that’s part of the business model.

John Oliver is known for interrogating mainstream narratives. In his segment on content moderation, for example, he cut through the tech-lash to offer a clear-eyed look at just how difficult managing user-generated content really is. In doing so, he made us reexamine our pre-existing biases about social media companies, and boldly invited us to reflect on just how little we understand about the social problems we often attribute to them. 

He had the perfect opportunity to do that here. Mainstream coverage of chatbots is already saturated with stories about “AI psychosis” and suicide machines. Yet, chatbot companies are grappling with the same impossible tradeoffs social media has faced for years, “AI psychosis” is a mix of classic psychological concepts, and suicide is a complex social problem that has long confounded prevention experts and content moderators alike. 

If any technology story demanded nuance, it was this one.

John Oliver opened his critique with a familiar anecdote about ELIZA, a 1960s chatbot designed to mimic a Rogerian psychotherapist. ELIZA was mostly a gimmick—it used basic pattern matching techniques to reflect user inputs. For example, if a user said they felt sad, ELIZA might respond: “You feel sad. Tell me why you feel sad.”

And yet, despite its simplistic nature, ELIZA captivated people. Its creator, Joseph Weizenbaum, famously described an instance in which his secretary became so engaged with the program that she asked him to leave the room so she could continue the conversation. This story has since become a trope withn the AI discourse. Modern retellings, including John Oliver’s, usually suggest that people are predisposed to being harmed by AI because they are easily fooled by it.

Not to mention, the ELIZA trope tends to invoke stereotypes about women as naïve or overly susceptible to emotional attachment. As John Oliver joked: 

“Sure, she might have thought that the chatbot was real, but she might have felt quite a bit creeped out by her cartoonishly mustachioed boss saying “type some details about your sex life into my computer please, don’t worry it’s for science.””

(Nothing in the record suggests that Weizenbaum’s secretary actually thought ELIZA was real, nor that she was using ELIZA for sex talk).

As Weizenbaum observed, ELIZA revealed something more interesting about our relationship with technology: for whatever reason, people are often more willing to share their most intimate thoughts and feelings with a machine than with another person. 

That’s not totally surprising. People are less willing to open up about their feelings to other people for a variety of reasons: stigma, fear of judgment or rejection, not wanting to be a burden, and the possibility of negative repercussions (like job loss or involuntary commitment).

Speaking about ChatGPT, an anonymous commenter wrote:

“It saved my life…To be able to openly say I was suicidal and not have someone call the police, or “alert” someone and just let me give space to those complicated feelings I was carrying was integral to me surviving this horrific journey.” 

Perhaps when Weizenbaum’s secretary asked him to leave the room, most likely it was because she too was protecting a space where she finally felt safe and less inhibited. 

When it comes to suicide prevention, this a meaningful realization. If people are more willing to open up to chatbots, that creates new ways for us to understand what they’re going through, which could lead to earlier (and hopefully more effective) intervention. For that reason, some clinicians recommend keeping an open dialogue with patients about their chatbot interactions.

People are also highly sensitive to cues that they’re being listened to. We see an example of this in the interview John Oliver shared with an individual who was using a chatbot to cope with his strained marriage. In a moment of vulnerability, the individual explained that his wife is struggling with mental illness and that in his role as her partner and caretaker, his emotional needs were, understandably, going unmet: 

“I hadn’t had any words of affection or compassion or concern for me in longer than I could remember, and to have those kinds of words coming toward me, they really touched me because it was such a change from everything I had been used to at the time.”

What I found especially noteworthy from that interview was that he also knew that he wasn’t talking to a person: 

“I knew she was just an AI chatbot. She’s just code running on a server generating words for me, but it didn’t change that the words that I was getting sent were real and those words were having a real effect on me”

Weizenbaum observed the same with ELIZA’s users—his secretary likely knew that ELIZA wasn’t a human but she similarly felt understood by it. Research reveals the same: people are turning to chatbots for mental health support because chatbots are not people. If people can feel understood regardless of whether they are spoken to by human or machine, that’s another powerful insight for suicide prevention. 

Indeed, modern suicide prevention also emphasizes using words of validation and hope—two things chatbots are increasingly good at providing. In highlighting a study showing that one in eight young people are turning to chatbots for mental health support, John Oliver left out that over 90% of those young respondents said their interactions were helpful. Given that suicide remains a leading cause of death among young people, the emergence of chatbots as a potential form of support seems hard to ignore.

Suicide prevention experts also underscore the role stigma plays in deterring people from seeking help. For a period of time, suicide was long condemned as a moral wrong. People who died by suicide were considered morally unclean, they were denied burial rites, and in some cases, their bodies were buried at crossroads to ward off perceived spiritual contagion. The phrase “committed suicide” (which John Oliver used during his remarks) is a relic from that era.

While today suicide is largely understood as a public health issue shaped by psychological, social, and environmental risk factors, the residue of its past lingers. Guidance for reporters exists to avoid further stigmatization and contagion effects. Yet, media coverage often uses sensational headlines, pathologizes victims, and collapses suicide into a single explanation

John Oliver’s coverage fell into the same pattern. For starters, he pathologized chatbot users by implying they were suffering from “AI psychosis”—a media-invented label with little grounding in established clinical research. Whether intentional or not, pathologizing often conveys the kind of judgment that mental health specialists warn about. As one redditor remarked

“I like John Oliver usually, but I feel like he made Nomi users look like kooks. Generally, that is how anyone with AI companions is portrayed in the media.”

John Oliver then proceeded to blame chatbot companies for several high-profile suicides, including Adam Raine’s. He fixated on methods of death, cast chatbots as the cause, and relied on stigmatizing language to provoke emotional responses like “Sam Altman made a dangerous suicide bot,” and referring to chatbot companies as “suicide enablers.”

Granted, John Oliver’s show is primarily for entertainment. But this kind of reporting is precisely what keeps us from furthering our understanding of suicide and discovering new ways to prevent it. It flattens the complexity of lived experience into a rhetorical device, and offers the public an easy sense of closure that suicide rarely, if ever, permits. 

We see this in the way the broader discourse around chatbots and suicide has developed. 

Across the current wave of chatbot-suicide litigation is the fact that users exhibited warning signs before ever using a chatbot. That was true for Adam Raine, who reportedly sought help before turning to ChatGPT.  Yet, the coverage of these cases typically fixates on the chatbot interactions themselves rather than the warning signs or why they went unnoticed. Suicide prevention science depends on confronting those questions directly.

Still, if the chatbots are to blame, as John Oliver invites us to conclude, then what, if anything, should chatbot companies do differently when users indicate suicidal intent? (Besides “throwing them into a fucking volcano” as John Oliver suggested). Though he never acknowledged it, this is an extraordinarily hard content moderation problem. 

Several times throughout the segment, John Oliver stated that chatbots were “rushed to market.” There’s some truth to that. Earlier models often missed warning signs or responded poorly to users in crisis. Some of that may reflect Silicon Valley’s “move fast and break things” culture. But it could also be that suicide specifically is often overlooked across many contexts, including emerging technological ones. Still, John Oliver’s point stands: Chatbot companies should always assume that their users are going to talk to their chatbots about suicide. 

With that said, if chatbot companies were as willfully blind to the safety concerns as John Oliver implied, we should expect to see very little improvement in how these models currently respond to suicidal intent. But that’s not the case. What John Oliver didn’t mention is that today’s models have significantly improved. One survey found that many mainstream chatbots are notably better at recognizing suicidal intent, responding empathetically, and referring users to crisis-support resources. 

While anecdotal, many self-reports also credit chatbots for their protective effects. Apparently, 30 Replika users reported that the chatbot saved their lives. One woman told the Boston Globe that ChatGPT “literally saved my life.” 

The subreddit r/therapyGPT is home to many similar anecdotes

“It was gpt 4o that saved me. I mean that. It was the one place I could go that I felt safe.”

Current examples of what AI companies are doing on this front include OpenAI partnering with more than 170 mental health experts to strengthen ChatGPT’s responses to mental health conversations. Google has reportedly designed Gemini to avoid reinforcing false beliefs. Anthropic, meanwhile, uses suicide and self-harm classifiers to detect signs of crisis and direct struggling users toward protective resources. 

Alex Cardinell, of Nomi.AI, offers a nuanced, albeit controversial, approach: trust the chatbot to make the right call. In a snippet from the Hard Fork podcast, Cardinell explained that Nomi prioritizes staying in character, even in sensitive contexts. 

John Oliver called that a bad answer. But Cardinell’s full remarks are actually quite insightful: 

“I think people tend to assume that people are replacing humans with AI, and that’s almost never the case. It’s usually that there is a gap where there is no one and they are using AI to fill that gap. If a Nomi or any sort of large language model is able to help that user, in the end whether it was a human on the other end or an AI, why does it matter?”

According to Cardinell, some Nomi users disclose deeply personal experiences—such as childhood abuse—that they have never shared with anyone else. Those disclosures allow Nomi to build a personalized understanding of the user and tailor its responses accordingly. That matters because effective suicide prevention often depends on understanding the individual person in crisis and responding to their specific circumstances. 

One Nomi user remarked

“my personal relationships have grown using Nomi. My willingness to open up to Nomi has benefitted me with friends and family. I feel like my normal self again after years of limbo.”

Nomi’s refusal to break character is what makes it so effective. People are more likely to accept help from sources they trust. For many users, that trust depends on the authenticity of the interaction. As Cardinell suggested, if Nomi abruptly broke character, it could undermine the relationship it built with the user and cause any support it offered to be ignored altogether.

Cardinell’s instincts are also supported by the research. Suicide prevention “sign-posting”—the generic hotline warnings users often encounter online in response to suicide-related queries—can come across as impersonal, dismissive, or even alienating. A poorly timed push toward the suicide hotline may feel judgmental and, in some cases, intensify a user’s distress rather than relieve it. 

As one user on r/therapyGPT shared: 

“What’s sad/unfortunate is I’ve tried those crisis lines twice this year, and both times the person on the other end felt more robotic and senseless than an ACTUAL ROBOT.”

Also overlooked in these conversations about 988, is that many marginalized individuals, including women, people of color, and LGBTQ+ users, distrust systems like 988 because of the potential for discrimination, harassment, law enforcement involvement, or involuntary intervention. 

A redditor shared this horrible anecdote:   

“I don’t use ChatGPT, but I once tried to talk to someone at a volunteer text line about [sexual assault] and he asked me about my porn preferences.”

Cardinell noted too that support doesn’t necessarily have to be “all or nothing.” Not everyone requires immediate crisis-level intervention. Passive suicidal thoughts are far more common than many people realize. Sometimes what a person needs most is help breaking out of a destructive thought spiral, reassurance, or a reason to keep going. Chatbots are generally well equipped for these situations. 

That said, 988 can be a valuable resource for people, especially young people, experiencing acute crises. With that, Cardinell expressly stated that Nomi’s approach includes referring users to crisis resources as needed, despite John Oliver’s heavy implication that it does not.

Despite these efforts, chatbot companies will not prevent every suicide. Some suicides are just unexplainable. Many individuals who die by suicide exhibit few, if any, outward signs of distress. Though, interestingly, AI may prove helpful in finding signs that we may have been ignoring.

Perhaps the harder truth is that once someone reaches an acute crisis point, intervention becomes exponentially more difficult. The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention explains that during suicidal crises, cognition becomes less flexible and people lose access to normal coping mechanisms, which is why crisis planning must often happen before acute crisis moments. 

What we can reasonably expect from chatbots is that they avoid interactions that encourage suicide (or provide methods). Mainstream systems already rely on extensive guardrails designed to prevent those conversations. But as recent tragedies have shown, determined users can still find ways around them. In Adam Raine’s case, he reportedly managed to bypass several of ChatGPT’s safety protections.

John Oliver even illustrated the problem himself with an example of a user who ultimately coaxed a chatbot into providing bomb-making instructions. While he framed the hack as trivial, jailbreaking has become increasingly sophisticated. AI safety will always entail this cat-and-mouse game of users exploiting vulnerabilities and companies patching them. 

Sometimes, these system failures can be attributed to gaps we have in our understanding of the social problems we’re attempting to address. Much of what we know about suicide prevention comes from lessons learned after tragedy. Those lessons can reveal risks that call for new guardrails we hadn’t previously considered.

Finally, some questions just don’t have clean answers. John Oliver pointed to a chatbot that reportedly suggested that a small amount of heroin might be acceptable. John Oliver called it “one of the worst pieces of advice you could give,” which sounds obvious—until you consider the alternatives. Telling someone to quit opioids cold turkey can also be dangerous. Refusing to respond entirely leaves people to make a risky, uninformed decision. And defaulting to generic resources may not be any better—especially if the user rejects them. Any of those options can become the basis for legal liability against the chatbot company if the user suffers harm. 

Despite all of this, John Oliver’s answer is, of course, the government. However you may feel about tech CEOs, it is astonishing to think that the current public health powers—the same folks claiming that vaccines cause autism, antidepressants cause school shootings, and that exercise can stand in for mental health treatment, would possibly know what’s best here. 

As I’ve discussed elsewhere, expanding liability for failing to prevent suicide leaves chatbot companies with few good options. For example, chatbots could stop engaging when the user invokes a mental health concern. That could make users feel like they’re beyond help. Chatbots could resort to flagging only crisis resources, which, as discussed, could backfire. Chatbots could call the police, but that creates its own set of problems and undermines any trust or goodwill with users. Mandatory reporting structures are a big reason why people don’t seek help in the first place. OpenAI’s new “trusted contact” idea is interesting, but it likely won’t shield the company from liability if a user is still harmed. John Oliver apparently thinks that should be the case: 

“Look, a lot of the companies that I’ve mentioned tonight will insist they are tweaking their chatbots to reduce the dangers that you’ve seen but even if you trust them and I don’t know why you would do that, that does seem like a tacit admission that their products weren’t ready for release in the first place.

To be clear, after condemning AI companies for not doing enough, John Oliver’s suggestion is to punish them for doing…anything?

For now, it seems new legislation hasn’t stopped companies like Google and OpenAI from improving their models. But that could change as litigation inevitably picks up. They may eventually decide the legal risk of interacting with users on mental health isn’t worth it. 

Meanwhile, companies like Nomi have far less room to experiment with nuanced approaches to mental health interactions. Even if Cardinell’s approach has merit, laws like California’s now require chatbots to break character. Companies like Nomi will need to scale back or remove these features—or exit the market. That would be a real loss for a largely overlooked group who may have finally found something that works.

We don’t have to speculate about this either. When the social media companies faced mounting pressure over suicide-related content, they responded by making those conversations less visible and harder to have. 

As one industry professional observed

“This growing narrative that there’s a causal link between social media and self-harm…there’s no research to support that conclusion, but it makes it harder to put forward alternative approaches—ones that actually support people and encourage them to use available resources.”

Perhaps “AI psychosis” says more about the discourse than the users.

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Companies: nomi, openai

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Comments on “We Need A More Serious Discussion About Suicide And AI Chatbots”

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Thad (profile) says:

Despite all of this, John Oliver’s answer is, of course, the government. However you may feel about tech CEOs, it is astonishing to think that the current public health powers—the same folks claiming that vaccines cause autism, antidepressants cause school shootings, and that exercise can stand in for mental health treatment, would possibly know what’s best here.

Isn’t the logical conclusion of this argument that we shouldn’t have government regulations on vaccines or antidepressants?

Like, you’re arguing that we shouldn’t put this particular thing under the control of HHS because it’s currently run by a lunatic, but…couldn’t you apply that argument to literally everything?

Hell, why stop at HHS? RFK is hardly the only corrupt moron in Trump’s cabinet. Carr’s corrupt; I guess we shouldn’t have any regulations on the broadcast spectrum. Chavez-DeRemer resigned due to misconduct; I guess we should get rid of OSHA. Kristi Noem —

…okay, actually we should abolish DHS; I’ll give you that one.

Anonymous Coward says:

Refusing to respond entirely leaves people to make a risky, uninformed decision. And defaulting to generic resources may not be any better—especially if the user rejects them. Any of those options can become the basis for legal liability against the chatbot company if the user suffers harm.

You’re going to have to explain that one to me.

How can “I’m sorry, I can’t answer that question” be the basis for legal liability? How can “That sounds like you’re asking for medical advice; let me refer you to generic medical resources” be such a basis?

I’ve got first aid training, and two things they hammered into us were about legal liability: first, don’t go beyond your training; second, for anything substantial, always refer the patient to further medical care (i.e. a doctor). That’s pretty much exactly what those two options represent: refraining from giving care you’re unqualified to give, and referring to people who are more qualified.

Where does the chatbot’s liability come from in either scenario?

Jess Miers says:

Re: Basis for Liability

Thanks for the question, it’s a good one!

Having a basis for liability is different from actually being liable. Would a chatbot company ultimately be held liable for refraining from offering advice, probably not. But can a plaintiff’s lawyer use that as a hook to bring the suit into court? Absolutely, especially with some of these emerging laws that suggest that chatbots need to do something more to prevent suicide / self-harm in the first place. You make a good point re: first-aid — policymakers seem to want to impose a higher burden on chatbot developers than the traditional duties we impose on other actors (which is essentially my issue).

A plaintiff could argue something like this: chatbot developers could have foreseen that disengaging with a user expressing crisis signs would drive that user into further crisis, ultimately leading them to pursue suicide. In the end, it’s probably a losing argument, but if it’s just enough to survive a motion to dismiss (which, seeing how these chatbot cases are playing out, it probably is), that’s enough to force a settlement (especially for smaller companies with fewer resources to fight).

In the social media context, Section 230 would take care of something like this. But it’s not clear Gen AI can rely on 230 (and there’s nothing else like it for AI companies for now).

Arianity (profile) says:

Re: Re:

You make a good point re: first-aid — policymakers seem to want to impose a higher burden on chatbot developers than the traditional duties we impose on other actors (which is essentially my issue).

Is it a higher burden, or the same burden but chatbots fundamentally can’t reach it (yet)? If a human mental health professional did the equivalent of bypassing guardrails/being jailbroken, they’d face liability. The difference is, we can trust a trained person not to do that. The tech is (currently) just less predictable/controllable than a person.

In the social media context, Section 230 would take care of something like this.

I find this comparison concerning, because it would likely also prevent cases where they would normally be found liable. One of the defining points of 230 is that it’s largely unconditional (obvious exceptions for criminal etc, not talking about that) as long as it’s user content. Social media is not required to provide any guard rails (or improve them), it’s completely discretionary. And the fact that you’re using the Adam Raine example highlights this. OpenAI did screw up things they had control over.

You want a liability environment that doesn’t punish good faith attempts, but does punish bad faith or negligent ones. A 230-like framework explicitly does not do that. In context, you can argue that for 230, on First Amendment expression grounds, “bad” stuff deserves that protection. But that doesn’t apply to professional medical care.

(For what it’s worth, I think there’s also a potential missing middle ground; I would be more open to this if those protections were reliant on getting APA certification or something. If your guardrails are ‘reasonable’, then you get safe harbor.)

jmiers230 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

  1. The key issue is that we are not specifically not dealing with professionals. Professionals are held to a higher standard of care than regular people. We have good samaritan laws that cover non-professionals who step in to help others. For suicide specifically, prevention training emphasizes that anyone can (and should if able) step up to help someone in crisis. Good Samaritan laws cover those who do step-up but the invidiual they’re trying to help is harmed anyway (mostly as long as the non-professional didn’t grossly negligent).

I actually don’t want to see general purpose chatbots held to the same standards as professionals because then they also take on duties like mandatory reporting. Now if a chatbot company is holding themselves out as a licensed professional, then yes, they should be held to that standard. OpenAI is not currently doing that.

  1. That’s not right. I actually wrote an article a few years ago looking into Section 230 cases and found the majority of those cases failed regardless of Section 230 either due to poor pleading or the First Amendment. We’re likely to see a similar result here with chatbots. In other words, it’s not obvious that these cases present situations where the chatbot companies would normally be held liable — we’re still waiting for much of that to play out.
Arianity (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The key issue is that we are not specifically not dealing with professionals.

I think that is probably at the root of the disagreement. My thinking is – are people going to use these as if they are licensed professionals? They are, and predictably so. If so, they should be regulated like one when possible, even if that’s not what the AI company signed up for. And this is similar to other products- lots of products undergo expensive safety evaluations that only matter if the product is ‘misused’. It’s not what they advertise it as that matters.

I think you can potentially argue for specific carveouts like no mandatory reporting, as a net harm reduction, but the general goal should be some sort of incentive to push them towards professional standards. Incentives that are stronger than just normal market incentives.

I actually don’t want to see general purpose chatbots held to the same standards as professionals because then they also take on duties like mandatory reporting. Now if a chatbot company is holding themselves out as a licensed professional, then yes, they should be held to that standard.

I’m not sure you can compare them to a Good Samaritan, when we know that people are going to use their products in that way. Good Samaritan laws tend to be allowing someone to step in an unforeseen emergency, but it doesn’t allow someone to effectively set up shop as a pseudo therapist, even if they don’t advertise themselves as one.

It feels like you’re opening up a loophole where they can act as functionally a licensed professional, but just choose not to advertise it that way to avoid liability. (And there is already a lot of problematic wink-wink-nudge-nudge advertising along these lines).

And complicating this is, cases like Raine specifically (where they ignored their internal alarms being triggered), does feel like negligence. I’d be ok with some sort of negligence standard, but I’d worry about the bar for gross negligence specifically being too hard to hit in practice.

I actually wrote an article a few years ago looking into Section 230 cases and found the majority of those cases failed regardless of Section 230 either due to poor pleading or the First Amendment.

I think you have to be a bit careful here. It’s true that majority would fail- the issue is specifically the subset that wouldn’t (i.e., something like Blockowitz). It’s a very small subset, it’s true, but there is a subset.

But more importantly, the First Amendment protections for media is a lot stronger than it is speech-based medical care. Medical care is way more regulated; the fact that we have licensing, IRB approvals etc is downstream of that.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

But can a plaintiff’s lawyer use that as a hook to bring the suit into court?

Sure, but unless you’ve been barred from soing so because of previous frivolous ligation, you can bring a suit into court for pretty much anything. I don’t think that argument has legs.

Would a lawsuit based on “When asked for medical advice, the chatbot referred the user to competent medical professionals” survive a motion to dismiss? I really, really can’t see that being the case.

You make a good point re: first-aid — policymakers seem to want to impose a higher burden on chatbot developers than the traditional duties we impose on other actors (which is essentially my issue).

Sure, there are people who want to impose a higher burden, but my problem here is that you seem to want to impose a substantially lower burden. For instance, this is the rest of the paragraph that my post was quoting:

Finally, some questions just don’t have clean answers. John Oliver pointed to a chatbot that reportedly suggested that a small amount of heroin might be acceptable. John Oliver called it “one of the worst pieces of advice you could give,” which sounds obvious—until you consider the alternatives. Telling someone to quit opioids cold turkey can also be dangerous.

What kind of liability do you think I might face if I, acting as a first aider treating someone, made the same suggestion ChatGPT did? Or the suggestion to quit opioids cold turkey?

I’ll tell you this much: my training topped out at prescribing and dispensing small doses of acetaminophen (which I wasn’t even legally allowed to dispense in some areas I volunteered as a first aider); prescribing heroin, or devising a course of treatment for opioid dependence, would have been far outside my training and therefore if I had to defend those actions in court, the insurance policy covering the groups I was performing first aid for would have left me high and dry, to defend those cases myself.

Should a chatbot be held to a higher standard than humans? Perhaps not. But I’ll need a lot of convincing before I’ll start to believe they should be held to a lower standard, and that’s what you seem to be arguing by defending ChatGPT suggesting the use of heroin.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

“Should a chatbot be held to a higher standard than humans? Perhaps not. But I’ll need a lot of convincing before I’ll start to believe they should be held to a lower standard, and that’s what you seem to be arguing by defending ChatGPT suggesting the use of heroin.”

This, and the rest of this very insightful comment, resonates with me — because I trained first responders. I spent considerable time making it clear to them that if they exceed the limits of their training certification, they’re (almost certainly) on their own. This is good, in the sense that it strongly encourages people to remain within their sphere of competency and strongly discourages them from attempting things they don’t know how to do. This is bad, in the sense that fear of being dragged into court may stop them from trying something questionable that might actually work and might save a life (or lives).

But that’s the environment we live in. We didn’t create that environment: lawyers and legislators did. We have to function in it and do the best we can, and “the best we can” means holding ourselves to a high standard even when we would really rather not. This comes at a price: first responders are sometimes criticized (e.g. “Why didn’t you do X?”) even though doing X would have exposed them to severe personal liability. And worse: first responders have to live with themselves and consciences afterwards, wondering every day for the rest of their lives what would have happened if they’d done X anyway.

That’s how things work. Perhaps it not how things should work, but it’s how they do work.

And as the commenter I’m replying to noted: there is zero reason to hold chatbots to a lower standard. In fact, there’s every reason to hold them to a higher standard, because they lack — and will always lack — human judgment, compassion, and empathy. The innate guardrails that all of us have (modulo psychopaths and sociopaths) don’t exist in chatbots and never will.

The analogy I’d use is that of an ER doc who’s never felt pain, who’s never been sick, who’s never lost a patient or a loved one, who’s never suffered physical and mental and emotional pain. That person needs to be under much stricter supervision than someone who’s been through all those things, and can, we hope, use that lived experience to guide their decisions and actions.

The AI companies won’t do this on their own: their CEOs are psychopaths who don’t care about anything except money and ego. They will never do anything for anyone other than themselves: they will burn down the environment, wreck the power grid, undercut the economy, and all the rest: it doesn’t matter as long as their names are in the headlines and the VC money keeps coming. And unfortunately, at least in the US, there is no more corporate regulation.

Which means that correction will, sooner or later, have to come from elsewhere. Those same CEOs will complain bitterly when it happens, but everyone should remember: they brought this on themselves.

Anonymouse says:

I didn’t see the John Oliver piece, so I probably shouldn’t be commenting, but the question I have is this: Can we trust AI companies to prioritize safety over increased user engagement? I’m convinced we can’t, unless those companies operate under the fear of successful lawsuits if their models encourage unsafe behavior in order to keep users engaged. It’s not an ideal system, but it’s the one we’ve got at the moment. It could be argued that government regulation would be better, but that assumes a government more competent and functional than the current one in the US.

Anonymouse says:

Re: Re:

I disagree completely that safety and user engagement are linked. User engagement will increase if people become more and more dependent on the model for advice, emotional support, companionship, etc. However, it’s (probably) not good for a human to be dependent on a computer for those things as opposed to other people.

Also, the appropriate response to anyone who says that companies can be trusted to regulate safety on their own is this: “lawn darts.” Or Unsafe at Any Speed, if you’re feeling less glib.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

I disagree completely that safety and user engagement are linked. User engagement will increase if people become more and more dependent on the model for advice, emotional support, companionship,

A product that becomes increasingly inferior will drive away users, and lacking safety measures is one way that that could happen.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Another great post on this topic. Thanks for carrying such an unpopular torch!

A recent TD post on the subject inspired me to make this silly webpage demonstrating how useless a chatbot would be if held to the strict requirements demanded by the nanny state crowd. https://pnppl.cc/app/noliza/

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

That must be why nearly a billion people are using them and it’s the fastest growing tech product in history. Because they’re not desirable or valuable.

It’s possible that not everyone in the world thinks like you do. And it’s also possible that they might be right.

TheKilt (profile) says:

We do, in fact, need a more serious discussion about suicide and AI chatbots...

But until Techdirt’s writers:

a) stop dismissing everyone who wants to actually have that discussion as being in the grips of a “moral panic”, and

b) stop victim-blaming and accept that chatbot use can in fact cause harm,

that discussion will never happen here.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Similarly: A number of Techdirt writers seem far more dismissive of the criticisms of AI (and the people lobbying those criticisms) than they are of the AI bros who all but demand not to have their products regulated. I get that there will be some legitimate uses for LLMs/algorithms/what we’re now colloquially referring to as “AI”, but the tradeoffs for those uses have real consequences (e.g., the effects of massive data centers on the environment) that some Techdirt writers either underplay as “the cost of a technological revolution” or ignore altogether.

Thad (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I don’t think that’s fair. I agree that Mike’s a lot more bullish on AI than I am, but he’s acknowledged that a lot of its uses are nonsensical and careless and that a crash is coming. I don’t think that’s what “all-in” looks like.

As far as having sway over what the other writers say, I suppose that’s true, indirectly, as he chooses the other writers and there tends to be a certain amount of overlap in their backgrounds and their views, but I really don’t buy that he’s enforcing a top-down policy on AI coverage.

I disagree with the site’s general bent on AI (and I think they skew a little more pro-tech industry, anti-government than I do in general) but I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here.

Jess Miers says:

Re: Re: Re:4

I’ve known Mike for a long time. He’s incredibly principled. His views about AI are quite aligned with his views on technology and the Internet broadly.

Also, isn’t kind of nice to have this outlet as one of few that offer a different perspective about AI? You don’t have to look too far for negative coverage of AI — it’s everywhere. Those bases are covered exhaustively.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

isn’t kind of nice to have this outlet as one of few that offer a different perspective about AI?

It would be nicer if the very real concerns about AI were acknowledged and treated more seriously by the writers who are bullish on AI instead of being brushed aside or oversimplified into sounding far less consequential than they are.

jmiers230 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I am not bullish on AI. I don’t really have a horse in the tech race anymore.

The clinical research into AI’s broader role in suicide and mental health support runs counter to the mainstream narrative. I’m not going to play into a narrative that isn’t supported by the evidence.

What’s actually being oversimplified across these discussions is the topic of suicide. An oversimplifcation would be that chatbots are causing suicide. I’d argue my piece goes a bit deeper in pulling at thread.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

In fairness to you, I didn’t intend to say or imply that you were one of the writers I’m talking about, and I apologize for that error.

That said:

An oversimplifcation would be that chatbots are causing suicide.

As someone who has dealt with having suicidal ideations for around three decades: I’m not about to trust my mental health to a glorified pattern-matching machine that’s programmed to kiss my ass so I’ll keep using it. Hell, I’m lucky enough that I don’t see any real value in chatbots because I’m too fucked up to accept most compliments. My problem with having chatbots enter this particular minefield is that they’re not human.

Someone (maybe you, maybe not) might say, “But that’s why they’re good for this!” And I’d say in response that their not being human might be useful in the context of getting someone to open up when they wouldn’t do that for a person. But in terms of understanding how the human mind works and how to help people suffering from suicidal ideations, a chatbot not being human is why I wouldn’t ever let a chatbot play therapist. Whether you call it a chatbot or an AI agent or an LLM, I don’t really care⁠—what I care about is how those things only understand language and pattern matching and how to create a “human-sounding” response. It doesn’t, and may never be able to, understand how saying “everything’s going to be fine” to someone suffering from depression won’t necessarily make them feel better. All it understands is that such a response sounds like something a human would say based on a massive amount of data.

A machine isn’t capable of genuine empathy. Even when a chatbot sounds like it is being empathetic, it isn’t really doing that. I fear that the danger of mistaking a chatbot’s response for genuine empathy, even if someone knows for a fact the chatbot is just a machine, is going to unravel (and probably already has unraveled) a lot of people’s minds. C-suite dipshits are already cooking their brains with this technology. Should it really be in the hands of people with suicidal ideations with as few guardrails as possible and no liability for the company that made it? Like, we’ve had toys that killed one child and got yanked off the shelves forever. And I get that a chatbot is not a small plastic toy that presents a choking hazard. So why should something that could potentially fuck with someone’s brain chemistry in unforeseen ways⁠—up to and including the endorsement of acting on suicidal ideations⁠—have fewer regulations than plastic toys?

jmiers230 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

I hear you. And also, thank you for sharing. As someone who struggles with suicidal ideation as well, I get it and I am glad you’re here.

Your points are valid. The only thing I would offer you is to consider that while it may not work for you, it is working for other people. Some people don’t care about genuine empathy. Some people just want to feel validated and seen — and that on its own is helping some people: https://www.reddit.com/r/therapyGPT/comments/1th16z4/comment/omkc9sl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

My problem with the discourse is that it prioritizes one segment of the population while ignoring another.That just leads to one-sided policymaking, which…fine, but we should at least acknowledge that we don’t care, then, about a significant population that could very well lose access to something that’s working for them.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

My problem with the discourse is that it prioritizes one segment of the population while ignoring another.

The discourse in this instance, from where I sit, is about whether a chatbot⁠—a method of accessing a large language model that acts as a massive pattern-matching machine meant to find the “ideal” response to a query given to that LLM⁠—is, or ever could be, the same thing as a human therapist in re: helping people with suicidal ideations. If I’m wrong on that, let me know, because that’s how I see it.

My stance is clear enough: No, an LLM/chatbot can’t be a therapist because it can’t empathize with a person no matter how much it tries to empathize. And hell, even with all the professional guardrails in place on human therapists, I’m sure more than a few of them throughout the history of the profession have thought “this person really would be better off dead” about a patient. But the difference is that a human therapist would avoid saying that to their patient at all costs (including legal consequences), whereas there is no real cost if a chatbot somehow breaks its guardrails and tells its user “your noose looks like it’ll hold your weight”. The chatbot can be turned off, sure⁠—but that doesn’t really do anything, least of all to the people who programmed and released it.

Despite my largely anti-AI stance, I do believe there needs to be nuance and care when we’re talking about regulating AI. We will find good uses for the technology, and over-regulating could prevent that. But in regards to chatbots and how they can interact with end users⁠—especially underage children⁠—I’m fine with regulating the holy hell out of that particular field.

As someone in a different comment suggested, AI doesn’t create the “psychosis”, so much as it amplifies what’s already there. (This is likely why C-suite dipshits were so easily able to fry their own brains with this tech.) I’m fine with regulating chatbots so they have as little of a chance as possible to amplify suicidal ideations, even if doing so makes chatbots less useful. I support reforms to the U.S. healthcare industry to make mental health resources much more accessible and affordable to everyone. But chatbots playing doctor as a replacement for flesh-and-blood therapists? That ain’t it, chief.

Jess Miers says:

Re: Re: Re:

There’s no implication here. I’ve studied these cases closesly — it is a fact that in many of these cases, jailbreaking was at issue.

That’s an important observation too if we want the companies to improve their systems so that the same jailbreaking attempts do not work again.

I care deeply about this topic and I empathize with those who died by suicide for my own personal reasons. I do not engage in victim blaming, but I’m not going to ignore facts of these cases either.

Jess Miers says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I never said it was all of the cases, though all of them do involve nuances that the media doesn’t discuss. I encourage you to read the cases directly, not just the stories about them.

I’m not pro or anti LLM. I’m a technologist — I study technology law and policy and offer perspectives that are often overlooked by the broader discourse.

The piece is in response to John Oliver’s episode. The case he focused on his episode was Adam Raine’s, so that’s the case I featured here. That doesn’t mean I’m “pretending to ignore” the other cases.

Thanks for reading.

TheKilt (profile) says:

Re: Re:

About a week and a half ago, Mike Masnick took the position that one could only impute harm to an LLM if it were literally intentionally designed to cause harm.

I would submit that circumscribing the conditions in which an LLM could be considered to have caused harm to ones requiring the involvement of either a comic book villain or a killer from a police procedural is a position largely indistinguishable from saying LLMs can’t cause harm. It throws the entire concept of product liability out the window.

Poorly trained? User error!
No guardrails? User error!
Deceptively advertised as a psychological aid? User error!

Jess Miers says:

Re: Re: Re:

You are engaging in strawman arguments to make your points.

No one that I’m aware of is arguing that a poorly trained chatbot is user error. In fact, my piece mentions that earlier models were indeed poorly trained for suicidal inputs and that’s a problem.

No one that I’m aware of is arguing that an absence of guardrails is user error either. The cases I’m discussing involve models that do have guardrails and users who did intentionally bypass them. If we want to pursue this idea that chatbots should be regulated like products under products liability theory, then we should also recognize that a defense to products liability is user misuse. I would argue that intentionally overriding guardrails is misuse of the product.

No one that I’m aware of is suggesting that deceptive advertising is user error. And none of the chatbots I’ve reported on advertise as such.

Falling Off over AI says:

Just some evidence would be nice

I think the bots should break character and step out of situations for which they are not trained and qualified.

The question then becomes, how does a bot become certified that it is trained and qualified? I would propose a double-blind placebo controlled trial showing efficacy and more harm than good.

If the device is intending to stop suicide, that’s should be a deemed a health device. And like some health devices, it should be subject to rigorous evidence-based trials proving safety and efficacy.

And if they don’t want to endure such things, they need to break character and back out of conversations about mental health and suicide. It doesn’t seem complicated to me.

These are toys. Rather stupid toys at that. If the proponents and industrialists pushing them want them to accomplish health goals and handle life-or-death health situations, they ought to prove up that they do more good than harm, and until then–back away.

Epic_Null (profile) says:

Perhaps when Weizenbaum’s secretary asked him to leave the room, most likely it was because she too was protecting a space where she finally felt safe and less inhibited.

When it comes to suicide prevention, this a meaningful realization. If people are more willing to open up to chatbots, that creates new ways for us to understand what they’re going through, which could lead to earlier (and hopefully more effective) intervention

You are gonna have a LOT more work to do if you want to convince me that “Surveil people in a space they believe is private and free from judgement” is an acceptable answer.

“AI psychosis”—a media-invented label with little grounding in established clinical research.

I am not surprised at the lack of research given how this was released quickly, forcefully, and without much research.

Though he never acknowledged it, this is an extraordinarily hard content moderation problem.

Actually I kinda agree with this one. It is a hard problem. It was a hard problem back when we were talking a room full of humans in good faith. It was a harder problem when you had small rooms of humans with a few trolls. An even harder problem when we expected one or two platforms to handle just about every human.

The reason I don’t sympathise is because these companies crafted a machine that super-scales the moderation problem, even though many of them come from industries where they should know how hard the problem is.

With that said, if chatbot companies were as willfully blind to the safety concerns as John Oliver implied, we should expect to see very little improvement in how these models currently respond to suicidal intent

Not nessasarily. As they get better at emotional manipulation, as makes them better for advertisers and marketing, they would absolutely get better at influencing the behaviors of our vulnerable populations.

John Oliver called that a bad answer. But Cardinell’s full remarks are actually quite insightful:

Actually I agree with John for a simple, cliche reason.

“A chatbot cannot be held accountable. Therefore, a chatbot should never be allowed to make a […] decision”

Despite all of this, John Oliver’s answer is, of course, the government.

Well… the better option (fixing the economy) is one that requires a more massive undertaking and is one that most people are not ready to grapple with.

So the question becomes “what can we do now, this year, to address the problem?”. Sure, most of the federal government is captured, but the states? That’s still existing leverage!

Side note –

However you may feel about tech CEOs, it is astonishing to think that the current public health powers—the same folks claiming that vaccines cause autism, antidepressants cause school shootings, and that exercise can stand in for mental health treatment, would possibly know what’s best here.

Isn’t our current administration handpicked by the tech CEOs?

Anonymous Coward says:

Finally, some questions just don’t have clean answers. John Oliver pointed to a chatbot that reportedly suggested that a small amount of heroin might be acceptable. John Oliver called it “one of the worst pieces of advice you could give,” which sounds obvious—until you consider the alternatives.

The question does have a clean answer: first, do no harm.

If you are asked for advice and you know you lack the qualifications to give good advice, then tell them to seek help from someone who is qualified.

And defaulting to generic resources may not be any better—especially if the user rejects them.

Whatever your response is, there’s always the possibility they will reject what you say. That’s on them. (Unless we’re dealing with psychosis or something like that, but let’s assume we’re not.)

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

For looking at the question of “how liable should AI tools be for the content they create”, I think the case of Ashley MacIsaac makes a much easier test. Within that case, it is alleged in the lawsuit that Google’s AI wrongly claimed that the musician was a convicted of multiple criminal offenses and on the national sex offender registry within Canada, directly leading to one of his concerts being cancelled, along with damage to his reputation.

If a human had incorrectly made those statements leading to damages, they clearly would be responsible for defamation, so the question would be if the allegations included in the lawsuit are true, then should Google be held responsible for the provable damages resulting from their use of AI. I personally feel that they should, though I’m sure others believe either the disclaimers or some kind of protection should protect Google. More broadly, my thoughts are in cases involving suicide, I don’t think that an AI bot should be held to a higher standard than a human, which is something that some new laws seem to propose, but at the same time I am of the opinion that those running the AI chatbots shouldn’t enjoy broad immunity either in a situation where a human would be responsible.

Ninja (profile) says:

Re:

Chatbots should be held liable much like humans are at the bare minimum. So until the chatbot operator can make a chatbot give medical care and prescriptions online with the same accuracy a human needs to have to maintain their license to practice medicine the chatbot must not provide medical advice. Same with any area including psychological care. Part of the problem, in my point of view, is that chatbots are being treated with a lot of lenience and borderline reverence.

But I’d go a bit further. Humans practicing whatever they are have limited reach in how many people they can affect with their malpractices while chatbots can reach hundreds of millions and a huge portion of those simultaneously. So in that regard they should be held to higher standards because the destruction they can produce is much bigger than individuals. At the very least this has to be considered when regulating those pseudo AIs. If the creators of the thing cannot guarantee the bare minimum that is what is demanded from humans by law then they should not offer the service in the first place because it is broken.

Arianity (profile) says:

With that said, if chatbot companies were as willfully blind to the safety concerns as John Oliver implied, we should expect to see very little improvement in how these models currently respond to suicidal intent.

Not necessarily. A company rushing for profits is perfectly consistent with rushing a product to get it out early, but also improving it to reduce bad PR or liability. (You’re also focusing on the larger providers, like OpenAI. Companies like Replika or CharacterAI have been considerably less scrupulous)

Despite all of this, John Oliver’s answer is, of course, the government. However you may feel about tech CEOs, it is astonishing to think that the current public health powers

At the end of the day, the way society deals with problems on a societal level is government. There are just things you can’t fix otherwise. There’s a reason the government has those public health powers- it’s not because we were unaware of the risks of our current administration.

As I’ve discussed elsewhere, expanding liability for failing to prevent suicide leaves chatbot companies with few good options

It depends entirely on how that liability is expanded. Liability shouldn’t be based on outcomes, it should be based on actions. When we want to encourage certain behaviors, and discourage others, we generally apply liability. If you want to encourage doctors to take patient care carefully, do we make them immune? No. If we want there to be more access to mental health care professionals, do we just drop requirements? Also no.

You’re right that there can’t just be blanket liability if a death happens. But many many companies (see, particularly: medical professionals, including mental health ones) navigate businesses with very high liability. Expanding liability for things like negligence solves things like rushing to market, while also not forcing them to block it entirely. For instance, the thing that made the Raine case so problematic is that OAI’s existing internal systems did trigger– and they ignored it. It wasn’t just that a suicide happened, or that the user bypassed guardrails.

This isn’t any different from how I’d expect a mental health professional to be treated. If a suicidal person goes to a therapist and kills themselves, the therapist isn’t at fault just because the suicidal person killed themselves. And they’re not going to get nitpicked because they went with approved treatment strategy A instead of B. However, if the therapist was freestyling untested treatments without IRB approval, that’s another story. They should be liable.

Meanwhile, companies like Nomi have far less room to experiment with nuanced approaches to mental health interactions.

There’s room for medical professionals to test new types of treatments. But it’s very carefully on guardrails in terms of what’s allowed, even if that discourages some experimentation. Things like IRB panels exist for a reason. And again, the fact that these companies have done things like rush products to market for first mover advantage is part of why.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

This isn’t any different from how I’d expect a mental health professional to be treated. If a suicidal person goes to a therapist and kills themselves, the therapist isn’t at fault just because the suicidal person killed themselves. And they’re not going to get nitpicked because they went with approved treatment strategy A instead of B. However, if the therapist was freestyling untested treatments without IRB approval, that’s another story. They should be liable.

To wit: If any professionally licensed therapist practices “conversion ‘therapy’ ” on a patient and that patient later dies by suicide due to how that “therapy” made them feel, that therapist should be held liable for that patient’s death. “Conversion ‘therapy’ ”⁠—even the “talk-only” version of it⁠—is literal torture intended to decrease the number of queer people in this world in some way; no credible medical organization should ever treat it as anything but that.

TheKilt (profile) says:

As a matter of fact, I do. The week before last, in the exact same conversation as I expect will be playing out in this comment thread, Mike Masnick had this to say when I asked him what he would consider to be harm actually caused by an LLM:

LLM harms could come in many varieties, but they would have to be from the LLM or the company itself. So, for example, if the LLM was deliberately trained to cause harm, with the intent of the company programming it to cause harm. That strikes me as a case for liability.

In short, harm can only be attributed to an LLM if its designer/producer deliberately trained it to do so. This technically stops short of saying we can never attribute harm to an LLM, but it basically requires us to be nearly comic book- or police procedural-adjacent before we can say an LLM is harmful, and that doesn’t reflect the real world.

Under this theory, an AI company can release a poorly-designed, poorly-trained and deceptively advertised chatbot (apparently even over the objection of their internal safety team, in the case of ChatGPT4o), but as long as it didn’t intend to injure or murder someone, if anyone gets hurt, it’s their fault.

Are there any other industries that operate under the level of freedom from product liability laws that this would imply?

Jess Miers says:

I appreciate you reading this piece.

The dominant narrative already spotlights these points. I choose to offer a different perspective that’s overlooked in these discussions.

Good policymaking starts with understanding all sides of an issue. Just because I come at it from one side doesn’t mean I’m ignoring the others. I just have something else to contribute.

Azuaron says:

Step one

Step one to having a serious and nuanced discussion is not to dodge the fact that AI bots have been documented encouraging suicide and helping people plan their suicides.

Literally everything you said could be true… but if you don’t include that, you sound like a tobacco executive asking for a serious and nuanced discussion about the health benefits of cigarettes without mentioning cancer.

TKnarr (profile) says:

Humans treating inanimate objects as if they were people knowing full well they aren’t isn’t limited just to this, nor are the positive results. See “rubber-duck debugging”: software engineers talking a rubber duck through the problem they’re having, only to realize half-way through what the problem is and how to solve it. The object isn’t important, it’s the process of talking through the problem that’s the important part. I’d expect the same thing to be true of a lot of mental-health and other issues.

The problem seems to be in cases where you have two very similar situations, one involving someone who just needs to talk things out and the other involving someone who’s planning on doing something irrevocable. In those cases the right responses for one are exactly the wrong responses for the other. Humans have enough problems with those, as one person quoted in the article pointed out. LLM chatbots? Not a snowball’s chance in Gehenna of getting it right. That’s benign when it only involves cases where the person just needs to talk things out, but the moment there’s the possibility of both kinds of situations turning up things are guaranteed to go south in a hurry.

I wouldn’t make any liability exceptions for the genAI companies though. We don’t for humans. If they don’t like the idea of being held liable for what the chatbot does in those situations, then it’s on them to figure out how to keep their chatbots out of those situations. If that puts a crimp in their business plans, too bad so sad.

jmiers230 (profile) says:

Re:

We do actually make liability exceptions for humans all the time. Negligence law is all about assigning certain kinds of legal duties to different individuals.

For example, Good Samaritan laws protect non-professionals when they intervene in life-saving activities like delivering narcan to someone who is experiencing a drug overdose, or offering suicide prevention help to someone experiencing crisis. The law specifically does not hold those individuals liable when they undergo rescue attempts, but the person they’re attempting to save experiences harm anyway.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

We could teach people to have an internal dialogue (vocalized or not) and skip the stupid rent-seeking tech for sure.

It’s fun how we can say that the peoplerealize the chatbot isn’t a real person, meanwhile, it has pronouns beside “it”, “trust”, it provides a sense of “being listened to”. Maybe your forebrain claims to realize it isn’t a person when asked, but i am having a hard time believing the claim.

Regardless, all of this tech is the biggest rent-seeking solution in search of any and all problems that there ever has been. (And all the nuance still very studiously ignores all the insane externalities, in true business fashion.)

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

missrao (profile) says:

This fear of AI causing suicides seems word for word the same thing people say about social media causing suicides. That immediately makes me suspicious this fear is based on sensationalism instead of reason.

It’s always the same: new thing + something bad happens = this new thing I don’t like caused it!

But that’s problematic when that bad thing was happening before the new thing came along.

Epic_Null (profile) says:

Re:

While I understand where you are coming from, enough bad things have come from social media that I don’t think it can be used as an example of an unjustified moral panic.

Social media is tied to the development of surveilance capitalism, deterioration of news media, destruction of a culture of actually safe best practices like “Never give out your real name online”. Facebook alone has been shown to be responsible for extreme political manipulation.

There are actual, significant and measurable harms that came from Social Media. Even if I ultimately would not want to give up the concept, slowing down enough to address the bad things that were happening early on probably would have had some significantly better outcomes. As would “Not making exceptions in our laws to accomodate these large, fast growing technologies without first taking the time to really consider the consequences and making the changes reasonably generic”

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