Why Jonathan Haidt’s ‘Protect The Kids’ Proposals Could Make Things Worse For Kids
from the first-do-no-harm dept
How much harm is done to children in the name of “protecting” them? Entirely too much. What if we drive them further into dangerous corners of the internet by cutting them off from their support networks?
Since the release of Jonathan Haidt’s book, “The Anxious Generation,” a few months back, there has been plenty of discussion and debate about his claims and his proposed solutions. In my own review of the book, I discussed how the data supporting Haidt’s claims were extraordinarily weak, but spent more time talking about how flimsy the support for his “solutions” were.
Haidt has, at other times, suggested that even if there is no evidence to actually support his policy solutions, we should support them anyway, because they couldn’t do any harm, and the mere chance that they might benefit kids is worth it. As I wrote:
While it doesn’t make it directly into his latest book, while he was working on it, Haidt responded to critics of his thesis by citing Pascal’s Wager—that it makes more sense to believe in God than not, because the cost of believing and being wrong is nothing. But the cost of not believing and being wrong could be eternal damnation.
Similarly, Haidt argues that we should keep kids away from social media for the same reason: even if he’s wrong, the “cost” is minimal.
The scariest part is that the cost of being wrong is not minimal. Indeed, it appears to be extremely high.
If he’s wrong, it means parents, politicians, teachers, and more do not tackle the real root causes of teenage mental health issues.
The research has shown repeatedly that social media is valuable for many young people, especially those struggling in their local communities and families (multiple studies highlight how LGBTQ youth rely heavily on social media in very helpful ways). Taking that lifeline away can be damaging. There are numerous stories of kids who relied on social media to help them out of tricky situations, such as diagnosing a disease where doctors failed to help.
I then went on and detailed how little Haidt seemed to understand about his own policy proposals. At least he provided some studies to support his position about the problem. But when it came to his policy proposals, they were totally based on “feels” rather than facts (or data).
Similarly, Haidt is no policy expert, and it shows. In the book, he supports policies like the “Kids Online Safety Act,” which has been condemned by LGBTQ groups, given that the co-sponsor of the bill has admitted she supports it to remove LGBTQ content from the internet. That’s real harm.
Now, Candice Odgers, a researcher who has done the actual research work Haidt has never done, and who published a fantastic takedown in Nature of the misleading claims Haidt made about the research, has a new piece in the Atlantic. The piece details the very real harms that might occur if everyone focuses on smartphones as some sort of horrible depression-making boxes.
Again, Odgers reminds everyone about the lack of any real evidence on these claims of initial harm:
I am a developmental psychologist, and for the past 20 years, I have worked to identify how children develop mental illnesses. Since 2008, I have studied 10-to-15-year-olds using their mobile phones, with the goal of testing how a wide range of their daily experiences, including their digital-technology use, influences their mental health. My colleagues and I have repeatedly failed to find compelling support for the claim that digital-technology use is a major contributor to adolescent depression and other mental-health symptoms.
Many other researchers have found the same. In fact, a recent study and a review of research on social media and depression concluded that social media is one of the least influential factors in predicting adolescents’ mental health. The most influential factors include a family history of mental disorder; early exposure to adversity, such as violence and discrimination; and school- and family-related stressors, among others. At the end of last year, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine released a report concluding, “Available research that links social media to health shows small effects and weak associations, which may be influenced by a combination of good and bad experiences. Contrary to the current cultural narrative that social media is universally harmful to adolescents, the reality is more complicated.”
In the piece, she notes that these claims from Haidt and others have “an intuitive appeal” because social media and mobile phones make for “an easy scapegoat.” But we should be concerned that the data doesn’t support these claims because it will mean we’ll make very wrong decisions in trying to figure out how to deal with these challenges.
Indeed, if the cause and effect is the opposite direction, as Odgers and others have found, then these “solutions” could do more harm:
The reality is that correlational studies to date have generated a mix of small, conflicting, and often confounded associations between social-media use and adolescents’ mental health. The overwhelming majority of them offer no way to sort out cause and effect. When associations are found, things seem to work in the opposite direction from what we’ve been told: Recent research among adolescents—including among young-adolescent girls, along with a large review of 24 studies that followed people over time—suggests that early mental-health symptoms may predict later social-media use, but not the other way around.
Odgers then highlights how experimental studies that might tease out actual cause and effect tend to have real problems, studying the wrong age group, or platforms that kids don’t really use these days (hello Facebook!).
But, as I noted in my review of Haidt’s book, and as Odgers also highlights here, the risk of falsely jumping to the conclusion that removing social media and phones from kids will somehow solve these problems risks making the problems worse:
But the problem with the extreme position presented in Haidt’s book and in recent headlines—that digital technology use is directly causing a large-scale mental-health crisis in teenagers—is that it can stoke panic and leave us without the tools we need to actually navigate these complex issues. Two things can be true: first, that the online spaces where young people spend so much time require massive reform, and second, that social media is not rewiring our children’s brains or causing an epidemic of mental illness. Focusing solely on social media may mean that the real causes of mental disorder and distress among our children go unaddressed.
Offline risk—at the community, family, and child levels—continues to be the best predictor of whether children are exposed to negative content and experiences online. Children growing up in families with the fewest resources offline are also less likely to be actively supported by adults as they learn to navigate the online world. If we react to these problems based on fear alone, rather than considering what adolescents actually need, we may only widen this opportunity gap.
We should not send the message to families—and to teens—that social-media use, which is common among adolescents and helpful in many cases, is inherently damaging, shameful, and harmful. It’s not. What my fellow researchers and I see when we connect with adolescents is young people going online to do regular adolescent stuff. They connect with peers from their offline life, consume music and media, and play games with friends. Spending time on YouTube remains the most frequent online activity for U.S. adolescents. Adolescents also go online to seek information about health, and this is especially true if they also report experiencing psychological distress themselves or encounter barriers to finding help offline. Many adolescents report finding spaces of refuge online, especially when they have marginalized identities or lack support in their family and school. Adolescents also report wanting, but often not being able to access, online mental-health services and supports.
All adolescents will eventually need to know how to safely navigate online spaces, so shutting off or restricting access to smartphones and social media is unlikely to work in the long term. In many instances, doing so could backfire: Teens will find creative ways to access these or even more unregulated spaces, and we should not give them additional reasons to feel alienated from the adults in their lives.
This is why I find Haidt’s idea of “well, we should do these ideas anyway, even if I have no proof to support them, because they can’t do any harm” so problematic. They can do real, and lasting, harm. They take attention away from dealing with the very complex realities facing teens about mental health today. They especially give parents and teachers an easy excuse to avoid tackling those real issues.
On top of that, if it is true that mental health issues (and a lack of proper resources to deal with them) are driving kids to social media as an alternative, taking that away can have real negative consequences. As Odgers notes, it can also make things worse by driving kids into darker corners of the internet, seeking answers.
We’ve already seen this come true with eating disorder content online. Attempts by social media companies to block such content and shut down groups discussing eating disorders did not diminish the existence of eating disorders among teens. Because it was a “demand side” problem (kids looking for such communities) rather than a “supply side” (kids deciding to explore eating disorders because they were encouraged on social media), it meant that when those communities were shut down, the kids still sought it out. And they found it, but in darker corners of the internet, where there was less oversight and fewer people within those same communities helping to guide the members towards useful recovery resources.
For all the talk of “protecting the children” online, and so much focus on Haidt’s utter nonsense, shouldn’t we be at least somewhat concerned that Haidt’s solutions have a very real chance of doing real harm to kids?
Filed Under: candice odgers, jonathan haidt, mental health, protect the children, social media


Comments on “Why Jonathan Haidt’s ‘Protect The Kids’ Proposals Could Make Things Worse For Kids”
Ask the same people on this if we should ban gas and oil and move to electric only.
They will instantly say that protecting corporate profits means that kids should fucking die.
Re:
Electric only? Fuck off.
Re: Re:
Indeed. Wood only, for heating and cooking. Stone axes, not guns. You know, because that’s where this is all headed, right?
Re: Re: Re:
The NRA is gonna fucking nuke your ass.
Re: Re:
If you’re build a house without a ground source heat pump (or air, when you can’t do a slinky), with desuperheater for water heating, and induction stovetop, you’re a fool.
Re:
Do you know how much coal, a fossil fuel, goes to generating electricity? Might want to think again.
Couldn’t agree more. As someone who has struggled with mental health issues my whole life. Adding social media to the mix did not do me harm, it exposed that the real factors are external (ie:society and other people) and I had to distance myself from some years ago for those reasons. Not th service itself, but because of the people. I still engage in other forms like a small but active web forum. But having social media access when I was in high school (2008 for example) would’ve had a huge negative effect on me as it was a gateway to things that had such positive long lasting effects otherwise.
Kind of rambling but I grew up using forums before social media, then Myspace and all that other stuff.
FOSTA lead to dead sex workers.
“Protect the kids” is written to lead to dead kids.
Re:
Politicians are just fine and dandy with dead kids, as long as those kids were trans and/or Black.
Re: Re:
Or Palestinian.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
Or Jews.
If you’re not marching like an angry graduate then you are a part of the problem.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2
I don’t see why this truth got flagged. If you’re not campaigning in the name of the Palestinians, it’s literally like you personally walked to Rafah and performed an air strike.
Re: Re: Re:3
No. No, it is not.
Re: Re: Re:
On a technicality, as long as the child isn’t a direct blood descendent, your average politician would be just fine using child soldiers if it meant making the fucking line go up.
Recent world events have proven something similar. Grown adults are being sent to die for a politician’s ego, whether it be an illegal landgrab or, well, an illegal war.
And we all suffer because of it.
I bet they wouldn’t mind child soldiers as well if they could indoctrinate their respective populations into thinking that that’s the only way out for them.
Re: Re: Re:2 'They're just carrying ammo boxes to the front lines, what's the problem?'
While I can’t recall the state at the moment I do seem to recall one that was/is pushing to put kids back into the workforce while at the same time screeching about how dangerous social media is for kids of course.
Re: Re:
Or not from their district.
Re: Re:
They are likely also okay with dead white kids who had so much potential, but only if they can use them as props for a narrative about how not giving the politicians whatever they want will lead to more tragedies like that. “You don’t want it to happen to again?!?”
It dont count
“because the cost of believing and being wrong is nothing. But the cost of not believing and being wrong could be eternal damnation.”
When there is the Belief that you can be Saved, JUST by asking and still goto heaven?
Every A-whole will give that a chance, then to FIX things in a better way.
The Idea of Instant salvation after Screwing everything up? Who ever came up with that idea should be taken out and Shoot, resurrected and Shoot again.
Wouldnt that be a great idea for the devil/satan/insert random demon, to DO to the corrupted. It would affect all the innocent and in the end Take the A-Wholes to hell, while they Pray to be saved.
Just another excuse.
Reminder
Jonathan Haidt’s first lick of mainstream fame came from Moral Foundations Theory, which argues that conservatives understand five moral dimensions and liberals only one or two, and that makes conservatives better people.
Moral foundations theory can be refuted in two words: horse paste.
Re:
Or, more specifically, conservatives are more likely to lack a coherent sense of morality, such that they pick and choose from five different sets of morals depending on what they need to justify at the time.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re:
Oh please. Liberals are demonic child-groomers.
Re: Re: Re:
OK, Loomer.
Re: Re: Re:
I wonder which republican represents you.
The one who wants to check which genitals a kid has? The one that was kids to be marriable? Or the one who ignored child molestation?
Re: Re: Re:2
All of them would be the only choice.
Re: Re: Re:3
Correct.
All of us should report the nearest Republican to the police as a chronic child molester.
Re: Re: Re:4
You heard about Joe’s daughters diary too!
Re: Re: Re:
This one right here, Mr. FBI agent. This is the person whose browser history you should be investigating.
Re: Re: Re:
This is how you want to demonstrate the complexity of your moral understanding? Own goal.
Re:
Whereas correct Moral Foundations Theory goes like so: liberals understand five moral dimensions and conservatives only one or two, and that makes liberals better people.
Re:
He didn’t argue that conservatives were better people or that liberals only had two dimensions, they had all five, it was more about how they ranked the priorities of the 5. And, it was much more nuanced than that and it involved those with conservative and liberal mindsets, not really close to todays political split. He seemed to have a fair amount of data showing a very widespread cross-cultural divide though. BUT, I never could understand his conclusions considering the hallmarks of a conservative mindset related to it being authoritarian, Manichean with a real distrust/inability to handle ambiguity and uncertainty, distrust of the new and different/group think, all of which to me is the perfect recipe for delusional thinking. Kinda like what you would expect of religiosity, in other words, why conservatives are by far the most religious.
Protip: It isn’t social media fucking your kids up, its you parents.
Running from thing to think looking for where to assign the blame for every bad thing that befell your kid because you refused to have a conversation that was uncomfortable for you to find out what your child was thinking.
Every single one of these assholes who has promised you a solution has failed miserably and you’ve manage to annoy your kids into avoiding you even more. Maybe stop accepting the easy answer that its all the fault of big tech & accept that perhaps the only one failing your kids is you.
You demand a higher level of care & concern from corporations than you demand from yourselves.
Keep rereading that until you get it.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re:
Shut up, childless scumbag.
Re: Re:
ok troll
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
At least I passed along my genes (even if I stopped paying child support), you fucking queer.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2
you just don’t shut the fuck up do you and i doubt what you said is true
Re: Re: Re:2
That’s not a flex. You’re saying you did something most members of most species can do. If that’s your bragging point, you’re admitting you’re pathetic. Also, being gay doesn’t stop you from having kids. Sorry if you don’t understand scenarios more complicated than “man woman equals baby.”
Re: Re: Re:2
Bruh, you actually believed the hooker when she told you it was yours?!?
Re: Re:
Heh my kids take after their Dad and both said fuck you.
Oh look the gold star gay has kids… work that out on your own time.
Re: Re:
Truth hurts?
Child getting too much screen time? Take them fishing
'You first'
Counter-proposal: People like Haidt and everyone else that wants to ban kids from the internet should themselves be prohibited from using or talking about it ‘For The Kids’.
Now I may not have any studies or evidence to support this proposal but since I framed it as ‘For The Kids’ clearly anyone that opposes my idea wants kids to be put in harm’s way, and in any case it’s not like there’s any great risks for giving it a try anyway so that’s just one more reason to put it into play.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re:
Counter-proposal: you should be sent to a death camp for being a huge fucking dork.
Re: Re:
Fuck off already.
Re: Re:
Did your best friend fist bump you for this quip before you had to head out to recess?
Re: Re:
edge lord much 4 chan loser
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
Shut up, dumb, childless faggot.
Re: Re: Re:2
keep proving my point buddy
Re: Re: Re:3
Just consider that you are replying to a grown man that thinks writing that shit is purposeful in some way.
Now imagine how mentally immature he must be and what a shitty life he has due to his immaturity, all of which he blames on other people.
He should be pitied because he has stuck himself in a pit of shit he hasn’t the mental capacity to escape from.
Re: Re: Re:4
exactly
Re: Re: Re:4
UK farmer here. We buy that stuff from sewage treatment plants to spread on fields, and I’d be surprised if the same isn’t done in at least some farming areas on your side of the Pond.
Re: Re: Re:2
Having a child, in this economy?
Re: Re:
[Projects facts not in evidence]
Wow! I’ve never seen the word ‘harm’ spelled that way before.
IMO, subjective morality is pretzel logic excusing of bad intent. The end never justifies the means. It is what it is.
Looks to me, like the pedos are fighting back successfully against those who want to let kids learn online about sexual stuff.
I guess they think it will make screwing children much harder once the kids know what pedos are actually after and how they get their rocks off.
I’m starting to think that all of these politicians who write up these deadly new ‘for the children’ laws are actually pissed off pedos who can’t find any dumb kids to screw lately and blame the web for the problem.
Solution – Let’s make kids dumb again – by legally cancelling their access to any outside information about anything sexual.