No, Twitter Doesn’t Want To ‘Censor’ Anyone, It Just Wants Everyone To Stop Attacking Each Other
from the have-a-little-respect dept
Last month I wrote about how, contrary to the weird narrative, Twitter has actually been among the most aggressive companies fighting for free speech online. While many people criticize it, they are wrong, or just uninformed. Mostly, they think (falsely) that because Twitter doesn’t want some speech that you like on their site, it somehow means they’re against free speech. The reality is a lot more complicated, of course. As we pointed out, former Reddit CEO Yishan Wong’s long thread about content moderation highlighted that people doing content moderation generally aren’t making decisions based on politics, they just want people to stop fighting all the time.
Recently, the Washington Post had an excellent article about Twitter’s Vijaya Gadde, the company’s top lawyer, who also runs their trust and safety efforts, that talks about how she is a strong defender of free speech, who also recognizes that, to support free speech, you have to come up with plans to deal with abusive, malignant users. That doesn’t mean automatically banning them, but exploring the solution space to see what kinds of programs you can put in place to limit the destructive nature of some users.
I recognize that this is a space filled with people who insist their emotional beliefs are the be all and end all when it comes to content moderation, but it would be nice if at least some of those people were willing to actually read through articles like this, that highlight how many different trade-offs and nuances there are in these discussions.
Twitter colleagues describe Gadde’s work as difficult but necessary and unmotivated by political ideology. Defenders say her team, known as the trust and safety organization, has worked painstakingly to rein in coronavirus misinformation, bullying and other harmful speech on the site, moves that necessarily limit some forms of expression. They have also disproportionately affected right-leaning accounts.
But Gadde also has tried to balance the desire to protect users with the values of a company built on the principle of radical free speech, they say. She pioneered strategies for flagging harmful content without removing it, adopting warning labels and “interstitials,” which cover up tweets that break Twitter’s rules and give people control over what content they see — strategies copied by Twitter’s much larger rival, Facebook.
The article also details how she has lead the company’s aggressive pushback against foreign laws that are real attacks on free speech:
For years, she has been the animating force pushing Twitter to champion free expression abroad. In India and Turkey, for example, her team has resisted demands to remove content critical of repressive governments. In 2014, Gadde made Twitter the only Silicon Valley company to sue the U.S. government over gag orders on what tech companies could say publicly about federal requests for user data related to national security. (Five other companies settled.)
Contrast that with Elon Musk, who quickly endorsed the EU’s approach to platform regulation at a time when Twitter, under Gadde’s leadership, has been pushing back against parts of that plan, by noting how it conflicts with basic free speech concepts.
The article highlights, as we have tried to do for years, that content moderation is a complicated and nuanced topic, that doesn’t fit neatly with the arguments around “free speech.” Part of this is that social media isn’t just about speech, but about being able to get your speech in front of a specific audience. People mostly don’t care if you spout bullshit nonsense on your own website where only those who seek it out can find it, but due to the nature of Twitter and how it connects users, it allows people to inject their speech into the notifications of others — and that creates elements for abuse and harassment, that actually harm free speech, by driving people out of the wider discussion entirely.
There is, obviously, some level of balance here. Not all criticism, hell, most criticism isn’t abusive or harassing, even if it may feel that way to those on the receiving end of it. But anyone trying to build an inclusive and trustworthy forum needs to recognize that bad actors push thoughtful users away. And at least some plan needs to be in place to deal with that.
But, part of that, is that Twitter’s DNA has always been to favor more speech over less, and the company really only pushes back in fairly extreme cases when pushed to the edge, and where no other decision is reasonably tolerable, if the site wants to keep users.
Even as the company took action to limit hate speech and harassment, Gadde resisted calls to police mere misinformation and falsehoods — including by the new president.
“As much as we and many of the individuals might have deeply held beliefs about what is true and what is factual and what’s appropriate, we felt that we should not as a company be in the position of verifying truth,” Gadde said on a 2018 Slate podcast, responding to a question about right-wing media host Alex Jones, who had promoted the falsehood on his show, Infowars, that the Sandy Hook school shooting was staged.
The company was slammed for statements like this at the time, but believed strongly that it was drawing the line in a place that made the most sense to be broadly inclusive. Of course, that line moves over time as the context and the world around us moved. In the early days of the pandemic, with people dropping dead everywhere, at some point, most people are going to realize that spreading more information that leads to more people dying feels morally disturbing.
It’s not out of any political beliefs, or a desire to “censor” viewpoints. It’s just a basic moral stance on how to help the public stay alive.
The company, also under her leadership, pushed for alternative tools to dealing with misinformation, rather than the go to move of taking down content:
Meanwhile, Gadde and her team were working with engineers to develop a warning label to cover up tweets — even from world leaders such as Trump — if they broke the company’s rules. Users would see the tweet only if they chose to click on it. They saw it as a middle ground between banning accounts and removing content and leaving it up.
In May 2020, as Trump’s reelection campaign got underway, Twitter decided to slap a fact-checking label on a Trump tweet that falsely claimed that mail-in ballots are fraudulent — the first action by a technology company to punish Trump for spreading misinformation. Days later, the company acted again, covering up a Trump tweet about protests over the death of George Floyd that warned “when the looting starts, the shooting starts.” More such actions followed.
And while some people insisted that this was a form of “censorship,” it was actually the opposite. It was literally “more speech” responding to speech that Twitter felt was problematic. Twitter was one of the first companies to use this approach as an alternative to removing speech… and yet it still resulted in very angry people insisting it was proof of censorship.
Anyway, there’s a lot more in the article, but it’s a really good and thorough look not just at the various tradeoffs and nuances at play, but also how Twitter’s current management made some of those decisions, not to try to silence voices, but quite the opposite.
Filed Under: content moderation, free speech, vijaya gadde
Companies: twitter


Comments on “No, Twitter Doesn’t Want To ‘Censor’ Anyone, It Just Wants Everyone To Stop Attacking Each Other”
“No, Twitter Doesn’t Want To ‘Censor’ Anyone, It Just Wants Everyone To Stop Attacking Each Other”
rubs between his eyes
Mike are they perhaps unfamiliar with humanity?
There’s a vast chasm of difference between “more speech” and “free speech”.
A million voices saying the same thing in unison is meaningless, compared to a hundred voices sharing contrasting perspectives.
Re:
Twitter is allowed to decide whether a certain voice should or shouldn’t be hosted on the site if said voice is breaking the TOS/being an asshole. Don’t like that? Go to any of Twitter’s competitors.
Re: Re:
Or start your own, like Mike Pillow and TFG did!
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Re: Re: Re:
“Or start your own, like Mike Pillow and TFG did!”
They already tried that. Liberals said “go f-off and make your own site if you don’t like it!!” So they did, and created Parler. But that wasn’t good enough for lunatic liberals, who then prosecuted efforts to have the site taken down because they couldn’t censor the speech over there. So they tried to get the payment processors and hosting companies to deny service to Parler. So, no, it’s not as simple as “just go make your own place then!!” because liberals cannot abide anyone having free speech that they can’t control or censor.
Re: Re: Re:2
Awww, is someone unhappy that Parler fucked itself by ignoring moderation reports and generally being a extremist shitpit?
Consequences happen even to people who don’t think consequences should happen to them. That’s life. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
Re: Re: Re:2
[Hallucinates facts not in evidence]
Re: Re: Re:2
Um, dude, Parler exists right now.
Re: Re: Re:3
Yes, but it was shut down from January to February last year and had to move domain registration in order to come back because Amazon Web Services didn’t want it anymore due to its shared role in the Jan. 6th Insurrection. Your point?
Re: Re: Re:4
Kinda debunks the argument that such sites can’t exist.
That it had trouble staying alive has more to do with its poor business practices than anything else.
Re: Re: Re:5
Stormfront, of I got the rignt one, seemed to intentionally pick alternate countries for hosting in which its Nazi content was illegal, solely to fuel delusional narratives of being persecuted.
Re: Re: Re:2
Lying about what happened doesn’t make for a winning argument.
And yet you’re still here.
Re: Re: Re:2
Uh, maybe it’s because Parler violated their contracts with said processors and companies to the point that their only choice was to accept… Russian help?
Or maybe it was their criminal complicity in the Jan 6 insurrection that would get everyone who might be connected to them investigated by all the alphabet agencies?
I dunno, not a lot of “liberals” were involved there.
I’m sorry your simple unicellular mind cannot process how ridiculously complex moderation is, let alone managing a social network like a Mastodon instance.
And yet, they let people like you act like assholes.
And yet, you keep returning to harass the rest of us.
And yet, they let you commit insurrection.
And yet, they’ve been more than happy to let you and your NeoNazi filth do violent acts instead of enforcing the fucking law.
No one important is being punished for what happenes on Jan 6, btw.
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Re: Re: Re:3 The Law of Merited Impossibility
Rod Dreher invented this – “That will never happen, and when it does, it’s because you bigots deserve it.”
Re: Re: Re:4
Yeah… I’ve seen others mention Rob Dreher, so what does that have to do with people being assholes?
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Re: Re: Re:5
When people actually voted with their feet and went elsewhere, as the woke ideologues here suggest, they were pursued and shut down at their new site. So when woke ideologues say that it’s not censorship when people can go elsewhere to speak, they are lying. It is censorship, and the woke ideologues think the people they’re censoring deserve to be silenced.
Re: Re: Re:6
What a twisted view of history you have, besides which why should a company support the overthrow of the political system under which they are thriving?
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Re: Re: Re:7
That’s how capitalism is supposed to work – we’re supposed to sell our enemies the rope with which they’ll hang us.
The political system under which they’re thriving is supposed to have freedom of speech. That’s why they should support freedom of speech. And no, freedom of speech is not limited to the 1st Amendment.
Re: Re: Re:8
Freedom of speech, in any interpretation, includes people telling you to take your speech elsewhere. You can’t say that here is not limiting your speech, only where you are able to make that speech.
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Re: Re: Re:9
As usual, because it is convenient for woke ideologues given that the censorship regime is currently favoring them, woke ideologues confuse the freedom of speech of the platforms and the freedom of speech of the users of those platforms. That the platforms have the free speech right to censor their users does not mean that their users are not being censored and deprived of free speech.
Re: Re: Re:10
The fact that it’s impossible for platforms to censor is what makes their users not censored, dumbshit.
Re: Re: Re:6
if what “the woke” do is censorship, what is it when the “unwoke” do the same thing to trans people – the consequences for being trans?
god, you’re such a fucking jerk, thinking you deserve nothing but praise for being a BRAVE TRUTH TELLER but trans people deserve nothing but hate and misery and to only ever think society would be better if they were’nt in it
fuck you and your randian sociopathy
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Re: Re: Re:7
Trans people deserve the same rights as anyone else – the freedom to believe anything they wish, and a prohibition against forcing their beliefs on anyone else. Woke gender ideology demands that everyone be compelled to affirm those false beliefs, and that’s why it should be fought.
Re: Re: Re:8
Do you keep on telling religious people that their beliefs are wrong? If not why do you insist in telling trans that they are wrong?
Re: Re: Re:9
Because he’s on the same side as the religious assholes who are trying to take trans people out of society.
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Re: Re: Re:10
I am an atheist. I oppose woke gender ideology because it is false, not because imaginary sky fairies say that it is bad.
Re: Re: Re:9
Certainly, when those religious people try to force their beliefs on others. We should be fighting for the rights of women (only!) to abort their fetuses without excuse or apology, we should prevent creationism from being taught in public schools, and we should get the mention of gods off of the Pledge of Allegiance, our currency, and our courtrooms. We should not allow Muslim cabdrivers to serve airports if they refuse to take passengers carrying liquor. We should not allow Christians to serve as pharmacists if they refuse to dispense certain drugs. And so on.
Re: Re: Re:8
[Projects facts contrary to copious submitted evidence]
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Re: Re: Re:9
https://www.schools.nyc.gov/school-life/school-environment/guidelines-on-gender/guidelines-to-support-transgender-and-gender-expansive-students
“Generally, a student must be permitted to participate in physical education, intramural sports, and competitive athletic activities and contact sports in accordance with the student’s gender identity asserted at school.”
Re: Re: Re:10
So you concede you have absolutely nothing that actually backs up your desire to force your dementia on trams people.
Re: Re: Re:5
It means Hyman Rosen is incapable of independently forming any thoughts of its own.
Re: Re: Re:3
“No one important is being punished for what happenes on Jan 6”
Not yet, they aren’t.
Did you realise how long it took to get to high level convictions in the Watergate scandal (which was a much less complicated matter involving far fewer people, and with a semi-sane Republican government)?
The news broke in June, 1972. Hearings opened in May, 1973. Nixon didn’t resign until August, 1974. The last legal appeals weren’t exhausted until 1977. And this was in a situation where the crooked president’s party was still the party of government, and that party hadn’t lost its mind and wasn’t obstructing every step of the way.
The Jan 6 thing is absolutely massive, there are so many high level people involved, and the investigation is being blocked and obstructed in so many ways. Garland hasn’t even been at this a year.
Give him a chance, FFS.
Re: Re:
If Elon wants to turn Twitter into 4chan good luck to him LMAO.
Re:
If those voices were acting in good faith and were willing to at least listen to the other side.
Sadly, some of these voices are not only paid or ideological bad-faith actors from BOTH progressive and “conservative” circles (as well as state actors AND their ideological armies), they are also unhinged as fuck. Especially the “conservatives”.
Re: Re:
Not every issue has more than one side.
Re: Re: Re:
Ah, but they do!
…the problem is that the “other side” in a lot of debate boils down to hatred of a Repugnant Cultural Other.
Re: Re: Re:
‘Not every issues has more than one valid side’ would probably be more accurate, as there’s always a chance for stupidity, honest ignorance and outright spite and hatred as one of the sides in a discussion.
Re:
There’s a vast chasm of difference between “more speech” and “free speech”.
No there’s not. You can’t have more speech without free speech, and free speech enables more speech. Numbnuts.
Re: Re:
And free speech can suppress speech.
Re: Re: Re:
Actually, the only way that can happen is if the government exercises its free speech rights in the pursuit of censoring speech, which is forbidden under the 1st Amendment. You know that mass of neurons and jelly in your skull? Please give it some excercise.
Re: Re: Re:2
Oh boy, you don’t really understand how the world works, eh?
Tell me, do you actually believe that no one has ever been scared into silence?
Grow up, get a job and move out of your parents house FFS.
Reminds me of Mr. Incredible from the first movie.
“I just cleaned up this place, can you keep it clean for TEN MINUTES?”
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Let a court of law be the factfinder as in regular law, with avenues of appeal, for this to survive due process.
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Uhh, no? If someone is throwing a fit in a store the management/staff don’t need to break out a mini-trial in order to show someone the door, the idea that social media should be obligated to do so is just as absurd.
Re: Re:
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
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So, McDonald’s has to be taken to court for every homeless person they don’t allow on the premises, then.
That’s such a drain on the courts that even I would be turned off paying taxes over THAT sort of frivolous waste of taxpayer money.
Why attack people?
Why attack people on Twitter when you can attack their mostly ignorant but partly stupid opinions. You won’t be able to make them think or understand, as if that were possible, but it doesn’t actually matter.
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Viva Vijaya
what great luck to finally discover here a truly objective, totally unbiased analysis of core Twitter.
And supported by an equally unbiased, cherry picked WashPost article.
Vijaya Gadde is flawless and a boon to all humanity — no one can anywhere find any legitimate criticism of her work.
Polemics, anyone?
Re:
Do you have a point, or did you post that tripe so you could jerk off to your self-imagined cleverness?
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Re: Re:
‘While twitter employees are secretly recorded saying twitter doesn’t give a fuck about free speech, anonymous sources at Twitter have told the WP that everything twitter does is to defend free speech.’
SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Re: Re: Re:
Ib id
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Probably you, because I don’t see any polemical bullshit in the article.
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Jealous much?
I really don’t think it wants everyone to stop attacking each other either.
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Right, they just want the fighting to stay civil.
None of that barbaric s***ing all over the place (like they did on Jan 6th, literally) and making the whole place uncomfortable for everyone.
Re: Re:
None of that barbaric s***ing all over the place…
Said the barbarian (non-Roman). 😉
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open up the algorithm
open up all the algorithm for all to see. if Twitter has nothing to hide. of course, we all know what they are doing. hence the meltdown by the government (democrats) when Musk made offer to buy. now here comes the smears against Musk. first sexual harassment. when that doesn’t work he will be called a racist…something you can’t defend against. typical playbook of the cronies in charge.
Re:
…at which point everyone will know how to game that algorithm—including spammers and other assholes who can and will use that newfound knowledge to make Twitter an even worse place for communication and discourse.
Is that your goal?
Re: Re:
Actually I think anyone making this suggestion is either grossly ignorant of the terrible end result or that is indeed their goal.
Re: Re:
Wait, Twitter needs to open up their super secret algorithms to get that to happen?
The shitfucks already do so just fine without Twitter opensourcing their processes.
Been in the thick of at least one stupid harassment campaign and Twitter takes FOREVER to clean up. And it’s still a largely user-driven process to force Twitter’s algorithms to unfuck themselves.
And this is the current state of things. Opensourcing the algos isn’t gonna make things any more worse than it already is.
Re:
The same Elon Musk, who got hit by the SEC over a tweet that implied he was doing something terribly illegal wrt to the stock market? (Yes, it turned out to be a joke. The SEC were still not amused.)
The same Elon Musk, who clearly could understand how moderation, Twitter and social media works if he’d take the same time and care he supposedly took to understand how cars and rockets work but didn’t, because he believes in the right to be a (potentially due to his upbringing as a white South African in apartheid-era Africa) offensive asshole without getting censured?
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Re: Re:
https://www.sidley.com/en/insights/newsupdates/2022/05/federal-appeals-court-holds-sec-administrative-proceedings-are-unconstitutional
The SEC oversteps its constitutional authority anyway.
Re: Re: Re:
… said nobody with any understanding of law, ever.
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Re: Re: Re:2 Shut the Fuck Up
And my posts get flagged for spam.
Shut the fuck up you piece of shit.
6th Amendment – Right to trial by jury in criminal cases.
7th Amendment – Right to trail by jury in civil cases.
No one, yourself included can explain how these regulatory tribunals are not a 6th/7th Amendment violation. I’ve read 15 chapter essays on how bad this ruling is because of the consequences since these tribunals have so ingrained themselves into our system of the last century. But the one thing those legal geniuses can explain in their walls of text is how such tribunals are constitutional.
Re: Re: Re:3
No, it’s for being abusive and trollish.
To put it simply, the tribunals are an administrative procedure that don’t oversee criminal or civil cases, making the requirements for a trial by jury inapplicable.
Re:
[Hallucinates facts not in evidence]
Twitter Moderation and Elon
Given Elon’s rather childish approach, I think he might be the death of twitter — which is trying to keep as many eyeballs on it and it’s ads as possible.
Or maybe, just maybe, Elon works out a better way to downgrade the divisive, a**holish posts to reduce the incentives to make them. But I am not holding my breath that Mr Musk is actually educable; he has too much personal power.
Re: maybe Elon doesnt like money?
From the cold-blooded, maximize-profits perspective, there’s a sweet spot to how toxic speech on Twitter or other social media “should” be. Toxic enough to draw a crowd, but not so toxic that people start fleeing and most importantly, not so toxic that advertisers pull out.
But Musk has been quoted saying he doesn’t like ads (www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/business/media/elon-musk-twitter-ads.html) which is an odd attitude for someone taking over an ad-based business.
Perhaps he wants Twitter as his personal fiefdom/playground and the normal rules of corporate profit maximization don’t apply? Perhaps he’d even be happy to run it at a loss and fund it via his personal fortune? If he wants to waste money, I have a lot of better ideas for him.
Or, Musk might switch over to a subscription-based, ad-free Twitter. That would be a great way to clear out the rabble but I wonder who would be left?
Re: Re:
Elon is the kind of guy who rants about how much he hates shareholders (on Twitter oh the irony) even though he is funding his Twitter takeover with Tesla stock.
Re: Re:
No, he’s doing it with outside funding, and those funders will demand a return.
For some people those are the same things
The problem is that for the sort who think they are not just owed a platform of their choice to speak from but should be protected from any sort of consequences for their words and actions ‘Don’t be an asshole or you’ll be shown the door’ is likely to strike them as the most heinous and restrictive thing possible.
They have a right to be abusive jackasses without consequence after all and how dare someone try to argue otherwise!
Re:
Including, but not limited to, implying to be manipulating the stock market via illegal means!
Elon once joked about that.
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Censorship is a good thing, though. It protects children and others from dangerous ideas.
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Not just Disney paying bills around here... now Twitter, too
“NO no no, corporations are good . Do what they tell you! Above all, never question Big Tech or the federal government.” – Mike Masnick
Re:
… said no one who has read this site ever. I regularly criticize both corporations (including big tech corporations) and the gov’t.
But, unlike some people, when the evidence shows they’ve actually done the right thing, I can point that out.
Amusingly, I think you’re the same person who commented on another post where I am criticizing the gov’t, and you insist that I actually am supporting it.
So, maybe, just maybe, you should listen to what I actually say, and not what the made up “mike” in your head says. It would help you look a little less crazy.
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Twitter, like Disney, is definitely paying some bills around here.
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Re:
Like how Koch Industries did during COVID?
But at least Twitter doing things that Techdirt reports on is a better way to pay the bills than being “indebted” to a Foundation funded by the very same people who keep funding white supremacists.
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Ah yes, ‘I can’t actually refute anything being said so I’ll just accuse you of being paid to say it’, truly a classic and super convincing.
He's not God
Praying for eyes to be open.
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And the capture is now complete
And now the capture of this site by the “official” narratives is complete. Techdirt used to stand for freedom and the constitution, and now it is nothing more than propaganda and pro-censorship. It USED to stand for “the solution to bad speech is more speech and debate” but has now devolved to “we should not allow people to say WrongThink” and similar blather. To be an actual advocate for open censorship of speech you disagree with is antithetical to what this site was created for in the first place.
We aren’t talking about mitigating abuse or other attacks against a platform, we are talking about when someone says something that is not “right”, without considering they may be misinformed themselves or just plain ignorant. People are allowed to be just plain wrong, you know. That doesn’t require some kind of information policing, else who is deciding what is “WrongThink” to begin with? What if I disagree with your so-called “truth?” Where is my right to talk about it? Oh right, Ministers of Truth are the only ones allowed to determine the veracity and intent of something. People can be simply stupid, they shouldn’t have their voices silenced over it. And everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how “Wrong” or how much you disagree with it. If it is so off the mark, discuss it. Point out or prove how they are wrong. Cutting them off only proves you only want one-way thinking to be expressed.
Re:
Where, in this article or these comments, has any Techdirt author or any regular commentator said “people shouldn’t be allowed to say WrongThink”? Hell, I’ve never said anything like that—if some idiotic transphobe wants to spew their hateful (and increasingly violent) rhetoric on a platform that will have them, I say let them.
What you seem concerned about isn’t freedom of speech, but freedom of reach—i.e., the imagined right to an audience and a bullhorn for your speech. But you fail to understand that nothing in the law gives you the right to an audience, access to an audience, and a personal soapbox on private property you don’t own. Nobody owes you an audience or a platform at their expense.
You have plenty of other options for communicating on the Internet besides Twitter if you say something that Twitter doesn’t want to host and Twitter says “GTFO”. Yes, those options may not give you the audience you want or the reach to which you believe you’re entitled. But that isn’t anyone else’s problem but yours.
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Nice of you to at least admit you’re the one who hates free speech here, censor.
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Explain how taking the standpoint that everyone has rights under the constitution and that people who think free speech means they are entitled to infringe those rights are wrong and bad?
Or you one of those who think the constitution is only applicable when it suits you or do you not actually understand what it says?
Re:
Techdirt still stands for that. We remain anti-censorship.
Of course, part of that, as explained here and elsewhere in great detail, is that the right of association is a key part of free speech rights.
This is simply not true at all. Still a big believer in “more speech.” And I do not think people should not be allowed to have “wrongthink.” If you want to be wrong, have at it.
As this very post notes, the issue only comes up when people start harassing others and being abusive. Then it’s no longer about an exchange of ideas. It’s about abusive assholes trying to silence people by bullying them into silence. That is equally problematic when you are using someone else’s service to do so.
If you want to be an asshole, be an asshole on your own site. I absolutely support your rights to be an asshole on your own time on your own site. Just don’t expect anyone to help you be an asshole.
Your understanding of reality is not reality. What you’re saying above is not happening.
Again, if you actually read, you’d know this. But you want to be an asshole.
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Re: Re: Cunt
Mike you are a cunt! And I would rather be an asshole than a cunt. At least assholes are direct with you. Cunts like you and your misfits are deceitful shitbags. An asshole will tell you to your face that you are a dipshit.
Cunts like you go around flagging anything you don’t agree with a spam so it gets censored.
That is what cunts do. Passive aggressive cowards who will smile at your face and put a knife in your back.
You are a fucking CUNT!
Re: Re: Re:
Cunts like you and your misfits are deceitful shitbags
[Projects facts not in evidence]
Re: Re: Re:2
What that makes you is a willful bully who dishes it out, but heaven forbid someone respond to you in kind.
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Re: Re: Re:3 I Dont Give a Shit
If you haven’t noticed I don’t give a shit. When you make comments about my sexuality and/or ethnicity it just shows you for the hypocrites that you are.
Joe Biden has what 26% support amongst Latinos and you call me a race traitor. Well I guess that makes 74% of us race traitors.
Re: Re: Re:4
For someone who claims to not give a shit you sure as hell keep giving one.
Re: Re: Re:
Do you have anything of substance to say? Because all I see is ad hominem.
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Re: Re: Re:2
Exactly!
Mike says that its about assholes. Mike is a cunt. He is a classic cunt. Assholes will get in your face. Cunts are cowards. The guy from a middle class family with a loud mouth who will call you a pussy to your face in the bar is an asshole.
A cunt is another thing. A cunt is the trust fund kid who will have security throw you out because his daddy knows the owner.
Mike is a classic cunt!
We have another example in the tech right now. Musk shows a picture of pregnant man next to Bill Gates. Asshole move, direct, rude, and everyone saw him do it. Now we find that bill Gates is secretly funding 501(C)(3) to go after Musk. Classic cunt move! The Cunt is a coward.
Re: Re: Re:3
Okay. Then I don’t need to read anything further because you yourself have affirmed that you have nothing substantive to add to this discussion.
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Techdirt has never claimed that the marketplace of ideas should include hate speech, violent threats, abuse, bullying, racism, homophobia, transphobia, and dangerous lies that actually hurt people or threaten democracy. Those are what get people suspended or kicked off sites, not simply having an unpopular opinion. From your anger I suspect your so-called “truths” fall into some of those categories.
I’ll just copy and paste my comment from yesterday about Twitter, but it applies across the social media space that you seem to want unfettered access to.
Twitter knows what the majority of their users want to see, or more importantly, don’t want to see, because users have been telling Twitter for years. A company that needs advertisers for income listens to that feedback and creates policies that attract the most users and hence the most advertisers. This is capitalism 101, why are you so confused about why Twitter does it?
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This is capitalism 101, why are you so confused about why Twitter does it?
It is difficult to get a person to understand and/or acknowledge something when their entire position/argument depends upon them not understanding or admitting it.
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Re: Re:
“This is capitalism 101, why are you so confused about why Twitter does it?”
BigTech is not capitalistic. Its modern mercantilism.
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Re: Mikes is Jack
Mike is a lot like Jack. In over his head Gen-X in silicone valley who was getting pushed out by the radicals who invaded the industry. Mikes got to eat so he went along to get along. Its that simple.
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[citation needed]
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The fact that you are using “woke” social terminology in support of speech suppression efforts proves the site has become another arm of the Media Establishment and no longer supports real freedoms that have been fought so hard for over the last two hundred plus years. Sad, but not unexpected. Disappointing.
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Freedoms that include the ability to not associate with someone, especially those who think that their politics define what it is to be a citizen.
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[Projects facts not in evidence]
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Explain for the class what it is that you personally used to be able to do but can’t do any more, what freedom have you lost. Be really specific…
Re: Woke you
Sad low energy trolling.
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“And while some people insisted that this was a form of “censorship,” it was actually the opposite. It was literally “more speech” responding to speech that Twitter felt was problematic. Twitter was one of the first companies to use this approach as an alternative to removing speech… and yet it still resulted in very angry people insisting it was proof of censorship.”
What a perfect example of Orwellian “Newspeak” masquerading as “more speech.” Incredible. What would fulfill the above idea would be, like here, if the community flagged the post and after so many flags, it is hidden unless you click it. That is a far more democratic approach to speech you don’t like: you have just as much right to not like the speech as the person does in expressing it, and you can express that by “reporting” it so others can see if a lot of people thought the same. But no, you advocate for pure repression ad the root level of the platform, curating speech. That is a de facto 230 violation and should result in the platform having its protection removed.
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Please, by all means: Explain exactly how moderating speech on a platform violates the law created specifically to offer legal protections for moderation decisions.
I’ll wait. 🍿
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“That is a de facto 230 violation and should result in the platform having its protection removed.”
Take it up with the courts dillwad.
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Nope, that isn’t happening here.
You clearly have a problem with the First Amendment and actual speech.
Repression at the ISP level exists in Singapore. It’s called “blocking sites nationally”.
Repression at the legal level exists in Singapore. It’s called “writing the laws to ensure that judges only enforce existing law instead of being another check on the executive branch”. It is also rumored that Singapore employs more… ideological methods to keep their judges in line.
Repression in Singapore exists on the academic level. It’s called “self censorship” and “shaping how academics get funded”.
I’ve got more if you keep spouting your fucking drivel.
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But the flagging here is useless. It’s just a down vote for less popular viewpoints or less popular people. For example, on a separate thread, I posted an excerpt from a Supreme Court decision that called social media the new public square, and that was flagged.
Techdirt’s flagging just shows that people will use whatever means they are given to censor speech and people they don’t like.
Re: Re:
You have made abundantly clear where you stand, but do go ahead and play the victim when people dislike you because of it.
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I’m not playing the victim – I don’t care that people flag my posts, since people interact with me anyway.
I am just pointing out that this sort of flagging is useless. If Techdirt were sufficiently popular, for example, you would have competing waves of bots trying to flag comments opposed by one side or another. It’s just an internet poll, and internet polls are always gamed. As it is, it’s an echo chamber of the woke flagging anyone who disagrees with them.
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If you actually considered it useless, you wouldn’t complain about it so vociferously.
Re: Re: You sound real salty about it, hope those tears dry soon
“Techdirt’s flagging just shows that people will use whatever means they are given to censor speech and people they don’t like.”
Doors that way hun.
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Yes, I understand that woke ideologues would like to silence their opponents, or at least chase them off. I think I’ll continue to stay and speak up.
Re: Re: Re:2
[Projects facts contrary to all real-world evidence]
Re: Re: Re:3
Oh it’s projection in an even more literal sense than that in that they’re whining about facing the very thing they have made clear they fully support when it comes to trans people, people telling them they’re wrong and/or harassing them into silence or leaving.
Apparently it’s perfectly acceptable when they do it but a heinous crime when someone does it to them, I could swear there’s a word to describe that just on the tip of my tongue, ‘hyp-‘ something…
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Re: Re: Re:4
A woke ideologue literally told me to go away, and I said I would not. It is not “whining” for me to say that I will not leave, and I am not asking the woke ideologue to stop telling me to leave, just criticizing them for doing so.
Of course it is woke ideologues who pursue the people they have told to leave and try to get the places they have gone to shut down.
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And what we can learn from this is that you are just fine with forcing yourself on other people even though they said they don’t want to interact with you and that you should leave.
You know what we call that? Harassment.
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It could also be rape/sexual assault, depending on what kind of forcing himself onto others he’s doing. Either way, I get the feeling he isn’t the kind of guy who takes “no” for an answer.
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No, it’s saying that if you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it. No one’s forcing you to post here, but if you do, you play by the same rules as anyone else.
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You say “my deliberate brain-dead bad-faith lies get flagged as trolling here” as though that’s supposed to be a bad thing.
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Re: Cunts
The problem with such a system is that its abused by a bunch of cunts. It only takes a critical mass of cunts like Stephan to flag anything they don’t agree with as spam.
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[Hallucinates facts contrary to any and all evidence]
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What was being referred to as “more speech” in that quote is the whole thing where they add a disclaimer to certain posts, not the removal, hiding, downranking, or “shadow banning” of posts or the suspension or removal of user accounts.
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Cunts
‘Don’t be an asshole says every’ cunt ever born.
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So tell me, when you call everybody who isn’t you a cunt, how is that not being an asshole?
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It’s not not being an asshole; Chozen’s entire point is that he is an asshole and everyone needs to live with it. It’s why he looks up to Trump so much.
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If you flag every post you don’t agree with as spam you a are a fucking cunt.
The difference between cunts and assholes is like the difference between tactics. Cunts are passive aggressive because they are cowards.
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Which doesn’t happen. You can disagree, but you’ve been an asshole about it, so you get flagged.
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Re: Re: Re:2
I was getting flagged before I ever started being as asshole. You cunts deserve everything you get.
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Part of the lie of sealioning is the lie that lying to us – the o e thing Chozen ever does – isn’t being an asshole.
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People can read your post history, Chozen. It’s not hard.
You know what’s being cunty, it’s lying about not being an asshole when you’ve consistently been one, and shamelessly proud of it in the same way an infant is proud of himself for taking his first poop and thinking it’s a masterpiece when really he’s missed the potty completely.
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No, you were an asshole from the beginning, as can be easily checked by looking at your comment history. But nice try gaslighting us.
Also, “deserves” has nothing to do with it. If you’re an asshole, you’re likely to get flagged even if you think the others “deserve” it.
Finally, I didn’t start flagging you until relatively recently.
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Shut the fuck up. And just scroll down any thread. Its a fucking mess. Flagged post after flagged post after flagged post. For a 3rd party not involved this entire blog is unreadable.
Mike is in a NYT situation where he has driven off so much readership that he is stuck trying to please an ever smaller audience of harder and harder left ideologues.
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So what? If you’re act badly, you’re going to face consequences.
First, the articles are unaffected by flagged posts; only the comment section. As such, the idea that the entire blog is unreadable due to flagged posts is obviously false.
Second, it says right there how to view hidden posts. When I first started reading this site, no one had to tell me how to view hidden posts because it was incredibly obvious how to do so, so I highly doubt that any newcomers would struggle to read the comments now, either.
Third, you reap what you sow. It’s your own fault that you were an asshole.
[citation needed]
Have I missed something here?
Not trying to be snarky, but doesn’t determining what is and is not misinformation by necessity involve making some sort of claims about what is true and what is not?
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Misinformation doesn’t necessarily need to be false, it can be facts taken out of context and presented in a totally different context to fool people into believing that A is true when in reality B is true.
One type of misinformation is for example taking a graph showing a slight difference between A and B and cutting off the bottom of it so the relative difference between A and B becomes huge.
Another type of misinformation is presenting incomplete statistics, like saying that 35% is against B while neglecting to mention that 50% if for B.
This is just 2 examples of misinformation that contains accurate but incomplete information that is presented in deceptive ways.
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On another site, a spambot was posting about how ,any deaths from hypothermia there were last year. Even if they weren’t lying with that data, their overall claim that global warming is good and we should let it happen is absolutely false.
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It’s amazing how many people don’t understand the difference between causation and correlation.
I’m surprised they didn’t go with the old chestnut of “We had a snow-storm here, that proves that global warming must be false!”.
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For one there are certain things which are intrinsically meant to mislead regardless of truth. It wouldn’t be easy by any means but a misleading in presentation graphic detector would be way more machine vision/machine learning automatible than trying to validate text.
Of course that would still have context issues, such as an educational image pointing out what misleading graphs look like getting flagged.
Fuck off cunt
Your propaganda is sickening, fuck off and die already.