How Not To CwF+RtB: Tell Fans They’ll Pay Any Price If They’re ‘Real’ Fans

from the the-scotsman-games dept

I really used to love our series of posts on how companies and content creators can build more revenue and loyalty with their customers through what we called the “Connect with Fans and a Reason to Buy” philosophy. Shortened to “Cwf+RtB,” the idea is that by treating fans in an awesome and human way, concerns about things like piracy and positive fan feedback could be melted away by building a loyal fanbase through a human connection such that people simply wanted to hand over their hard-earned money to support content creators. By dropping the corporate sheen just a bit and connecting with people on their level, so many creators and companies have built a rabid fanbase that has no interest in taking actions that would prevent these creators from making money at their craft.

But the opposite also applies in reverse. Treat your fans poorly, or fail to connect with them on a human level, and you’re bound to get yourself into trouble. In a world of rising prices within the various entertainment mediums, this becomes all the more dangerous. Randy Pitchford, CEO of Gearbox, is learning this lesson right now after responding to concerns about the new Borderlands game being priced at $80 by essentially employing the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

Believe it or not, there’s a lot to unpack here. The most important aspect of this is that this is the sort of response that indicates both a severe lack of judgment in communicating with customers combined with a disconnect with the reality of how most people live. We’ll get into the latter part of that further down. The judgment miss is this: even if everything Pitchford wrote above were true, and it very much is not, you don’t say this sort of thing out loud. Put another way, the message above accomplishes absolutely nothing productive for either fans of the Borderlands series nor Gearbox. Anyone who was going to pay $80 for the new game last week likely still will after this comment was made, save those pissed enough about the messaging to change their mind. Those who were hesitant to spend that much on the new game certainly aren’t going to be swayed by a “you will if you’re a true fan” message. And those who have never played the series will be put off by this message. Again, nothing positive accomplished.

It’s the “no true Scotsman” fallacy at work, but with the Scotsman being a gamer, apparently. “$80 is too much for the game,” goes some of the gaming public, with the response being “Not if you’re a real fan.” So those who bought the previous games for less and loved them aren’t truly fans in the eyes of Gearbox? Cool.

And the game of implications Pitchford is attempting to play here probably isn’t valid either.

Randy Pitchford grew up in Fairfax, Virginia, then California. His father worked in U.S. intelligence in the 1970s, and his house was filled with all manner of technology throughout his childhood. While I cannot say for sure (although I have emailed to find out), it seems vanishingly unlikely that Pitchford was living off of his minimum wage ice cream job after he’d graduated high school, as his tweet seems to want to heavily imply. Pitchford soon after went to UCLA, so we can quite safely guess that this was a short-term job, one for earning a bit of extra spending money while still living at home with his parents.

I would suggest that to use this anecdote to explain to all living humans that if they really want a copy of Borderlands 4, they can easily find eighty bucks to spare is grotesque. It kind of makes me sick.

I’m very much a fan of Maseratis. They’re slick, awesome cars. I have, on occasion, gone to dealerships just to look at them. I also am not in a position to buy one, for any number of reasons. But Maserati doesn’t look me in the eye and tell me if I were really a fan of their products then I would find some magical way to afford them. That would be stupid, as it is when Pritchard says it about his video game. And, as Kotaku helpfully details out through income statistics among Americans, some of this seems to stem from the disconnect Pitchford has with how the average person lives.

Hopefully, this context suggests why it’s just so revolting for a man who sold his company for a potential $1.3 billion in 2021 to tell someone on X that “if you’re a real fan, you’ll find a way to make it happen.” Because, you know, when he was doing a summer job at the beach in California, he somehow pulled enough cash together for that game he wanted.

There are some who think it’s a crime to be wealthy. I am very much not one of those people. I begrudge not at all Pitchford having amassed millions of dollars. I do take issue with someone with that kind of generational wealth attempting to gatekeep fandom while condescendingly telling fans if they were only true enough fans, they would find a way to give him more money.

As do those responding to his message, it seems. Here is but a sampling.

I imagine many people are now “out” as well. And if Pitchford’s company sales decline as a result and he makes less money than he would have otherwise, well, I suppose I’ll let him eat cake.

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Companies: gearbox

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Comments on “How Not To CwF+RtB: Tell Fans They’ll Pay Any Price If They’re ‘Real’ Fans”

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53 Comments
n00bdragon (profile) says:

Re: Re:

This is the thing that always gets me. For every person they “lose” due to these kinds of things, probably 75% of them buy it anyway and they get twenty more customers in China.

“Gamers” need to realize they aren’t the core demographic anymore and haven’t been for some time.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: The only language they understand is money

If you complain about what a company is doing but give them money anyway the only thing you’re telling them is that they can ignore the complaints and keep smacking you around.

If you want to get a company to listen you must vote with your wallet because at the end of the day ‘Is this making us more or less money?’ will be the deciding factor for damn near any and all companies.

n00bdragon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

To a point. That only works if you can’t be replaced by one (or more) less discerning customers. The older I get and the more I earn the more I feel like I have less worth spending on. Maybe it was I who changed, but I’m fairly certain a whole lot of things I used to like just got worse and decided they were better off with customers who weren’t me.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Oh there will always be idiots who don’t care how badly a company treats them so long as they get the Newest and Shiniest Thing(tm), the goal of voting with your wallet is to either convince companies that it’s in their best financial interest to not screw over their customers by refusing to give them money when they try and hope that enough other people have the self-control to do likewise, or if that’s out and the idiot are the majority then you can at least refuse to pay for your own beating.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: 'Thank you sir may I have the priviledge of paying you to have another?'

Some people just really like getting smacked around so long as they get the ‘latest and greatest shiny thing’, is it any wonder some companies are so blase about their contempt for their customers?

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

This is hilarious. Especially given that their last few games were meh. 1 and 2 were the peak.

As for being rich being a crime. At certain levels it’s valid.

Take elon pedoman musk. He’s as rich as he is because he got to use his riches to escape punishment.

Even trump before either presidency was rich as he was due to having the money to make holding him accountable impossible. He could save 50k by dragging out a court case rather than pay the bill.

So for those who have 10s, 100s, or 1000s of millions either the money was made through breaking the law or it was kept through it. That much money is not amassed through following the law.

So maybe the person isn’t a criminal themselves but I would take a solid but that at a minimum the money they have was made through numerous labor violations.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
n00bdragon (profile) says:

Re:

Donald Trump was not rich before becoming president the second time. He was flat broke in 2016, likely having a negative net worth (we’ll never truly know because he still hasn’t released those tax returns he promised to). He’s spent most of his adult life in financial trouble and has gone bankrupt multiple times.

It’s not being wealthy that gets him out of trouble. It’s the constant influx of suckers who fall for the newest gimmick, usually a miraculous batch of them at the last possible moment to bail him out of whatever crisis of his own making is about to do him in. You might call it black magic or divine (infernal?) intervention or what have you but it certainly isn’t money. He legendarily stiffs almost everyone who helps him.

Musk is just the latest unfortunate sucker casualty of the standard Trump playbook: get a new investor on the Trump Train, suck them dry, discard them.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Thad (profile) says:

I’m actually sympathetic to the argument that AAA games cost far more to make and (adjusted for inflation, at least) sell for far less than they did 30 years ago.

But what a deeply fucking stupid and way of making that argument. Not the worst thing Randy Pitchford has (allegedly) done but sure doesn’t do anything to improve my opinion of the man.

Though I can’t say as I find a wall of paid blue-checks, including a guy who calls people “cucked” unironically, to be terribly sympathetic either.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

But… I’ll just say this.

Do they need to?

But the other problem I have as a lifelong gamer is reach and monetization. Steam alone has more active users per month than snes units sold.

But then you have dlc, cosmetics and all that. A recentish example is monster hunter wilds at $70 that has f2p type transactions in it. Change appearance? Then pay extra per use.

And in some aspects producing games has gotten cheaper. Cartridges and disc’s were expensive and many sells are digital now.

So sure the base price hasn’t gone up, but the number of units sold has along with all the extra costs being thrown in.

Paul says:

Re:

More cost but that a fixed cost. There is almost no cost per unit.

so having spent there money to make it their is no real reason to not sell as many digital licences as they can.

Once they buy BL4, its only a small step to selling them battlepasses, expansions and eventually BL5.

personally since bl3 got perhaps a hour of play total I would pass regardless.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re:

I’m actually sympathetic to the argument that AAA games cost far more to make and (adjusted for inflation, at least) sell for far less than they did 30 years ago.

As Stephanie Sterling has put it only after game companies acknowledge and do something about obscene CEO/exec pay and bonuses should people even be willing to consider entertaining the argument of game development costs and how those might tie into a company ‘having’ to charge what they do.

Ben (profile) says:

And if Pitchford’s company sales decline as a result and he makes less money than he would have otherwise, well, I suppose I’ll let him eat cake.

And of course, low sales will be “because of piracy”, not the fault of a CEO who can’t do social media.

Obligatory: I’m out.
(but then I’ve not played more than 10 minutes of the previous three games anyway)

terribly tired (profile) says:

I was never paying 80 dollhairs, for any game, so this is entirely moot, but – I love Randyboy implying I’m not a Borderlands fan simply because I have some basic expectations of value per monetary unit. Luckily, Steam’s ‘ignore’ exists.

What a complete tosspot. Ah well, into the fuck-it bucket Gearbox go.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I’m definitely not a true fan then. I got a couple of the borderlands games for free and I still want to return them for a refund.

Thad (profile) says:

Re:

I was never paying 80 dollhairs, for any game

I’m probably not either (I usually wait for sales), but I do have a copy of Chrono Trigger around here somewhere. He’s not wrong that this is what games cost at the tail-end of the cartridge era (but he is being a dickbag about it).

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re:

He’s not wrong that this is what games cost at the tail-end of the cartridge era (but he is being a dickbag about it).

It’s not just that he’s being a dickbag about making his point, it’s that his point ignores all the context around the price from back then. Worse still, he does it to justify the new price.

Anonymous Coward says:

Needless to say to Borderlands 4 needs to be much better than a ripoff of Doom and Forthnight to worth 80 bucks.
Personality, I’ll stick with Borderlands 1 after watching the trailer.

Ehud Gavron (profile) says:

I'M A FAN

I love Formula One. I’m a huge fan. Not ever going to another race in person again. Too expensive, no good visibility (no not even from the suites), and bad attitudes.

I loved CART/IndyCar (not the current Indy Racing League fendermobiles) and I went to many of those races. Not ever going to another race in person again. Same issues as with F1.

I love flying helicopters, but $500K-$1M is richer than my blood. So while I once owned one working for a company that subsidized its use, I’m not buying one anytime soon.

BUT IF YOU WANT TO GUILT TRIP ME that “I’M NOT A REAL FAN” because I won’t spend $80+ on software I DON’T OWN that works on a console I WON’T BUY because J. Rando Company can BRICK IT… guess what. You’re right. I guess I’m not a real fan.

E
P.S. I have other expensive hobbies and at the end of the day, I want to ensure I’m paying a FAIR PRICE and I ACTUALLY OWN what I buy. An $80 “license” is like paying to bend over and find out what a cuck is.

Heart of Dawn (profile) says:

As a Kiwi I’m used to being screwed over on game pricing (we pay another $20~ on top of the exchange rate, which used to be excusable back when you shipped physical goods across an ocean, but not now).

So I’ve learned to be patient and wait for the sales and non-exlcusive releases. And if that doesn’t happen, well I’ve still got 200+ games in my Steam library, not to mention dozens of books, movies, and other things to occupy my time.

No one game is ever so precious as to be worth such an exorbitant price, and triple-A publishers are in for a real wake up call. Especially for one’s like Pitchford living in their own little techbro bubble, cut off from the rest of us.

Anonymous Coward says:

But Maserati doesn’t look me in the eye and tell me if I were really a fan of their products then I would find some magical way to afford them. That would be stupid,

Well, good for Maserati, but, from what I’ve heard, the dealerships for most car brands push loans/leasing hard (even for people who could actually afford to buy). And a lot of suckers fall for this, and make commitments they can’t keep. The Simpsons has even made at least 2 references to Homer being goaded into buying an unaffordable vehicle (Call of the Simpsons, S01E07; Mr. Plow, S04E09).

Anonymous Coward says:

Pitchford is one of the most confusing people in the video game industry to me. What exactly are his qualifications? Why is he entitled to continue receiving money to develop projects that fail on release?

Crafty Coyote says:

As someone who just purchased the most expensive game I’ll ever play, I guess I must be the true Scotsman, because it cost too much for me NOT to like. At least I assume that’s the true Scotsman, for saying that if you’ve paid so much for a thing you can’t abandon it because you’d lose all that money

urza9814 says:

Did he buy it?

He doesn’t actually say he saved enough money to buy the game, he just says he “made it happen”. That sounds like exactly the kind of phrasing one might use if they had pirated the game. Perhaps he’s encouraging Borderlands fans to do the same. If you reallly need to play that game but you can’t or don’t want to throw $80 at it…just “make it happen.”

Anonymous Coward says:

A point i might raise is that a good chunk of game (or whatever) sales are not to “true fans”, however one wants to define that.

And frequently, if not generally, using the term “true fans” is an exclusionary tactic meant to make the defined population smaller and more insular. Not a great way to scale shit.

Anonymous Coward says:

Always remember: content creators and rightsholders love to say that if you don’t agree with their terms and conditions, you can do without – but they absolutely hate it when you do without. Between those two options, the cheaper option wins out. Especially in this Trump-fucked climate where what little disposable income you have should be on feeding your family.

1f92e5 (profile) says:

My experience with Techdirt’s “awesome” Cwf+RtB: I subscribed for watercooler. I never received access to the discord server. And now I can’t find a way to unsubscribe and my credit card keeps getting declined transactions (good thing it’s pre-paid and I keep it at $0 balance).

Yes, I contacted support multiple times and I never received any response. I also checked my spam folder. Also the fact that “support” is a fire-and-forget HTML form is not a good sign.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Yikes!

Hey… very sorry about that. I’m looking into what happened. You should have received an email invite to the Discord. We’ll get back to you shortly once we find out what happened.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Kinda? You can still see the titles of upcoming articles but any attempt to read or comment on them ahead of them going live just leads you to a ‘this link isn’t valid’ page.

Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 while you are at it

That is… in the process of being fixed.

How about fixing ``preview” amd ``flag” so they work without javascript, like they did on the old platform?

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Is the crystal ball still a thing? I haven’t seen it since the site upgrade.

You don’t see it at all, or you see it and it’s not working properly? It is there, but we did have some random issues with it (for a while I was unable to see it, but I was under the impression it was just something screwed up with my unique account). But you should be able to see it. If you don’t we’ll look into it and get it fixed for you.

Thad (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Don’t see it at all. Top of the homepage is the podcast, immediately below it is the “DHS Strips Harvard’s Foreign Student Program” story. Tried using a different browser, disabling uBlock Origin, Privacy Badger, and pi-hole, so I’m pretty sure it’s not getting blocked on my end.

Ehud Gavron (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Crystal Ball INOP

You don’t see it at all, or you see it and it’s not working properly?

It’s been all-links-404 for months. Every now and then one of the 5-6 links works. Chrome. Firefox. Linux. Android. They are borked.

Leigh did say y’all were working on it but even today, all the links are 404s.

With such tantalizing headlines it’s a real bummer to click through and get that “Oops.”

Anonymous Coward says:

I just read this as....

I read this simply as him telling people to pirate the game. After all “real fans” will “find a way to make it happen”, nudge nudge, wink wink. I could honestly see such a defence holding up legally if they went after anyone for doing so after a statement like that.

Anonymous Coward says:

$80 for borderlands 4 but the DLC (which contains ‘exclusive’ day one bug fixes) is $49.99

And the SECOND DLC is also $49.99. And again has fixes/amendments that SHOULD have been in the main game all along.

So essentially to make Bordlands 4 playable is going to cost $179.98

Anonymous Coward says:

I don’t understand how Randy keeps managing to put his foot in his mouth when he already has a few dozen feet in there already. The man is a jackassery millipede.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

Nobody has ever claimed that.

The problem is that these massively wealthy people talk about game prices as if people can easily pay the money if they really want to, completely ignoring the fact that inflation has increased the price of tons of everyday items, but not wages.

Moreover, they keep using the excuse of “game development has gotten more expensive”, as if it just happened to them, and now they have to increase game prices to break even.
Pitchford has even said verbatim that the budget for BL4 is double what it was for BL3, but they’re the ones who chose to do that.

So it’s not that gamers think they should be immune to inflation; it’s that they’re tired of making less and having to pay more because some developers/publishers decide to balloon development budgets.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I have yet to understand why people who pay grunt workers think that they’re supposed to be immune from inflation.

The bulk of people working a day job, especially the ones at the bottom of a company’s pyramid of influence, haven’t seen their income rise in proportion to inflation for a long time. Yet they’re supposed to still keep spending to keep the economy running, while simultaneously get mocked for not saving for emergencies or a rainy day. Which is it? If our spending power doesn’t rise we simply can’t buy your product. It’s that simple.

On a related note, I have yet to understand why companies think they’re immune to us choosing not to buy their product, willingly or otherwise.

That One Guy (profile) says:

'Look there are only two options, either you agree with me or you're wrong.'

Ah the No True Scotsman mixed with what I believe would be a purity test, where only the real fans will be willing to fork over the cash and therefore anyone who doesn’t isn’t really a fan of the series and therefore their complaints don’t need to be taken seriously.

I’d love to see this blow up in his face and cause a significant reduction in pre-orders and sales but as a long history of anti-consumer behavior in the game industry has made crystal clear you can get away with a lot of contempt and abuse towards your customers so long as you keep cranking out that digital crack.

Jeffrey Nonken (profile) says:

As a long-time fan (I think I own every piece of the franchise available on PC — even the disastrous excuse for festering garbage that is New Tales — and multiple copies of some of the offerings), my current plans for BL4 are to run away screaming.

I’d intended to buy a copy anyway, maybe wait for it to go on sale first. Now? Not so much.

I happen to be in a position to afford it with no strain, but Randy’s remark is a slap in the face. It’s not about the $80, though that is a contributing factor, but the utter contempt with which he treats the fans. And the creators. And the actors and, well, everybody else who is not him.

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