A 25-Year-Old Is Writing Backdoors Into The Treasury’s $6 Trillion Payment System. What Could Possibly Go Wrong?

from the let's-just-do-it-and-be-legends,-man dept

Just months after we learned Chinese hackers had compromised US telecom systems through government-mandated backdoors, an inexperienced developer from Musk’s DOGE unit is pushing untested code directly into the Treasury’s payment infrastructure — a system that handles over $6 trillion in federal payments annually.

It seems reasonable to call it one of the most dangerous cyberattacks on the US government.

The Treasury Department wants us to believe everything is fine. When Senators Warren and Wyden — the ranking members of the Banking and Finance Committees — demanded answers about Musk’s team’s access to the payment system, Treasury responded with reassurances: just “read only” access, they claimed, with no ability to interfere with payments.

Importantly, the ongoing review of Treasury’s systems is not resulting in the suspension or rejection of any payment instructions submitted to Treasury by other federal agencies across the government. In particular, the review at the Fiscal Service has not caused payments for obligations such as Social Security and Medicare to be delayed or re-routed. To be clear, the agency responsible for making the payment always drives the payment process. Currently, Treasury staff members working with Tom Krause, a Treasury employee, will have read-only access to the coded data of the Fiscal Service’s payment systems in order to continue this operational efficiency assessment. This is similar to the kind of access that Treasury provides to individuals reviewing Treasury systems, such as auditors, and that follows practices associated with protecting the integrity of the systems and business processes.

But while Treasury was making these claims, both Wired and TPM revealed a far more alarming reality: a 25-year-old DOGE team member named Marko Elez (who had refused to give any of his brand new colleagues his last name) had been granted something far beyond “read only” access — he had full administrator privileges to the system. That’s the keys to the kingdom (or, rather, the kingdom’s payments):

Two of those sources say that Elez’s privileges include the ability not just to read but to write code on two of the most sensitive systems in the US government: The Payment Automation Manager (PAM) and Secure Payment System (SPS) at the Bureau of the Fiscal Service (BFS). Housed on a top-secret mainframe, these systems control, on a granular level, government payments that in their totality amount to more than a fifth of the US economy.

Despite reporting that suggests DOGE has access to these Treasury systems on a “read-only” level, sources say Elez, who has visited a Kansas City office housing BFS systems, has many administrator-level privileges. Typically, those admin privileges could give someone the power to log into servers through secure shell access, navigate the entire file system, change user permissions, and delete or modify critical files. That could allow someone to bypass the security measures of, and potentially cause irreversible changes to, the very systems they have access to.

And Elez’s qualifications for this extraordinary level of access to our nation’s financial infrastructure? According to Wired’s reporting, a mere three and a half years of experience since graduating Rutgers, split between SpaceX and ExTwitter’s Search AI team. Neither position involved anything remotely close to handling critical financial infrastructure or government payment systems.

But it gets worse. Josh Marshall’s reporting at TPM reveals something that I can already hear developers howling about, even through the internet: Elez isn’t just looking at the code — he’s pushing untested changes directly into production on a system that handles trillions in federal payments:

I’m told that Elez and possibly other DOGE operatives received full admin-level access on Friday, January 31st. The claim of “read only” access was either false from the start or later fell through. The DOGE team, which appears to be mainly or only Elez for the purposes of this project, has already made extensive changes to the code base for the payment system. They have not locked out the existing programmer/engineering staff but have rather leaned on them for assistance, which the staff appear to have painedly provided hoping to prevent as much damage as possible — “damage” in the sense not of preventing the intended changes but avoiding crashes or a system-wide breakdown caused by rapidly pushing new code into production with a limited knowledge of the system and its dependencies across the federal government.

Remember Treasury’s reassurance that no payments would be blocked? That appears to have been, at best, aspirational. At worst, deliberately misleading. Marshall’s sources indicate that the code changes have a very specific purpose: creating mechanisms to block payments while hiding the evidence.

Phrases like “freaking out” are, not surprisingly, used to describe the reaction of the engineers who were responsible for maintaining the code base until a week ago. The changes that have been made all seem to relate to creating new paths to block payments and possibly leave less visibility into what has been blocked. I want to emphasize that the described changes are not being tested in a dev environment (i.e., a not-live environment) but have already been pushed into production. This is code that appears to be mainly the work of Elez, who was first introduced to the system probably roughly a week ago and certainly not before the second Trump inauguration. The most recent information I have is that no payments have as yet been blocked and that the incumbent engineering team was able to convince Elez to push the code live to impact only a subset of the universe of payments the system controls. I have also heard no specific information about this access being used to drill down into the private financial or proprietary information of payment recipients, though it appears that the incumbent staff has only limited visibility into what Elez is doing with the access. They have, however, looked extensively into the categories and identity of payees to see how certain payments can be blocked.

Let’s be clear about what we’re seeing: deliberately obscured payment-blocking capabilities being added to absolutely critical government infrastructure by an inexperienced developer with minimal oversight. In cybersecurity terms, that’s not just a backdoor — it’s flashing warning lights of an approaching catastrophe.

And the timing couldn’t be worse.

As you might know, we’re about to face yet another debt ceiling crisis in the near future, which might be even more chaotic given the current state of the federal government. But one of the key aspects of the whole debt ceiling thing is that, at some point, long-term civil servants at the Treasury Department are supposed to inform Congress when the government runs out of money.

Greg Sargent, over at The New Republic, has a terrifying piece on how the people who know how to do that were the people Musk just pushed out, like David Lebyk.

What also alarms these officials is that this is unfolding even as a debt ceiling crisis looms. When the government is on the verge of defaulting on its obligations, these officials tell me, it’s Lebryk and his team who carefully monitor the situation to determine, to the greatest extent possible, on what date it will no longer be able to meet its obligations. This team monitors the water levels, these officials say, noting that this is how Treasury knows what to say in those letters that periodically warn Congress that a breach is approaching.

As it happens, this is precisely why we want career, nonpolitical civil servants to be in charge of the spigots. To put it delicately, this is some really complicated shit, and we want the process to be administered in a totally nonpoliticized way. Letting someone like Musk anywhere near it risks corrupting it quite deeply.

“The payment systems are controlled by a small number of career officials precisely to protect them and the full faith and credit of the United States from political interference,” said Jesse Lee, who was a senior adviser to the National Economic Council under President Joe Biden. Or as Linden put it: “This is exactly the kind of thing you do not want political appointees getting involved in.”

And just to add an extra layer of technical recklessness to this situation, Marshall’s reporting includes this stomach-churning detail:

Adding further anxiety about the stability of the system there is, I’m told, a long-scheduled migration scheduled to take place this weekend which could interact in unpredictable ways with the code changes already described.

Cool. Cool.

Pushing untested code changes right before a major system migration is the kind of thing that gets you fired from a low-level development job. Here we’re talking about the federal government’s payment infrastructure.

All of this becomes even more alarming when you consider the broader context: sophisticated foreign adversaries have been systematically probing and compromising US government systems for years.

As we’ve been covering over the last few months, we only recently learned that the Chinese state-sponsored hacking group known as Salt Typhoon gained almost unrestricted access to the backdoors we built into the telecom system for law enforcement wiretapping. They had that access for “months or longer” and were able to do real damage. We still don’t even know if we’ve gotten them out of the system.

And what was one of Trump’s first moves upon taking office? Firing the team investigating that breach.

So here we are: an inexperienced developer, fresh from working on ExTwitter’s search tools, is implementing hidden payment-blocking capabilities in the federal government’s $6 trillion payment system, while the very experts who understand these systems are being pushed out, and the teams responsible for investigating security breaches are being disbanded.

What could go wrong?

Hopefully, for everyone’s sake, nothing goes wrong at all. It sounds like career staff are doing their best to actually protect the system from harm. But, this isn’t a rocket ship that you can have blow up a few times before you figure out the problems.

So… fingers crossed?

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Comments on “A 25-Year-Old Is Writing Backdoors Into The Treasury’s $6 Trillion Payment System. What Could Possibly Go Wrong?”

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136 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Lots of people make the Nazi comparison, but it’s not clear whether they’re serious. If so, remember that their regime lasted upward of 2 decades, and the best chance of survival (for anyone they were going after) was to get the fuck out. Which sucks, I know, but things didn’t go so well for those who stayed.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Ridiculous. I’ve worked on advanced systems for over 15 years and this outrages me to no end. A week and already pushing untested code to production? I’d get fired immediately if I even dared try that. And this is far, far more egregious. I called it earlier, Trump’s Davos statements convinced me he wants to trade places with China and let them be the dominant superpower.

Strawb (profile) says:

Josh Marshall’s reporting at TPM reveals something that I can already hear developers howling about, even through the internet: Elez isn’t just looking at the code — he’s pushing untested changes directly into production on a system that handles trillions in federal payments.

This is why you don’t use AI to program for you, kids! Elez clearly doesn’t know that.

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Anonymous Coward says:

If this is, as I suspect, a AIX IBM mainframe, it is also highly likely the software is written in a language he’s never used (maybe even heard of).

Any real world software, that has more than, say $10,000 riding on it, needs months (at bare minimum) of testing and QA (AFTER the dev is done) before it’s deployed.

The dude hasn’t had time to grock the project, let allow architect this sort of sweeping change (assuming there is not currently a framework for covertly blocking transactions already in place).

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

So, he’s a 25 years dev with 40+ years of COBOL/FORTRAN experience, or he has been lying on his resume but has already started to read his copy of “US Treasury’s mainframes for Dummies”.
Anyway, it doesn’t seem to make a difference for Musk that has kept Twitter engineers only from how much lines of code they’ve written.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The COBOL payment systems are somewhat arcane to get into. Getting the old dog to do a new trick is indeed a multi month or multi year project for teams of people that have been doing this longer than this kid has been alive, but breaking them is also surprisingly easy if you don’t know what to watch out for and which files to not touch.

Best case scenario, the career programmers give this kid a deployment runway so long that nothing will get done in several years, but if he gets fed up and starts browsing through 3.4 to muck with any file that tickles his fancy or starts flipping switches in CEMT a lot of things can go wrong with a speed that will absolutely steal the air from your lungs.

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Anonymous Coward says:

This is going to end unimaginably badly. Like collapse of the dollar badly. Like cratering of the economy because trillions of dollars of spending suddenly shut off in the best case, disappear irrevocably into foreign accounts in the worst.

Messing with the Treasury literally threatens the existence of the Federal government. I’ve been telling people to just take care of their sanity, survive until these people’s incompetence brings about a change at the next election. I never considered that they might decide to really, actually, no hyperbole, burn it all down.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Again, that’s a little extreme. Listen, don’t become like the MAGAtoids and thinking of every possible extreme as the best case scenario, that’s why they conditioned themselves into thinking this kind of response was measured to begin with.

Cooler heads will prevail, they always do.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Again, that’s a little extreme.

So is the Trump administration. However awful you expect him to be, notch that up a little. For example: I doubt anyone thought he was going to suggest an ethnic cleasing and U.S. ownership of the Gaza Strip as something he would seriously consider doing if the Israel/Hamas ceasefire holds.

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Rocky (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Let’s say they push a change into production that corrupts data, that’s far harder to roll back – especially if it isn’t catched immediately and it starts producing erroneous transactions cascading through several systems resulting in faulty payments? Or perhaps the system grinds to a halt because corrupted data crashes it? Have you even an inkling how many transactions are processed every second in a system like what the Treasury is running and how much problems faulty transactions can wreak in the long run?

As someone who actually works with systems that facilitates financial payment transactions handling billions of dollars yearly, no one can just waltz in and demand access regardless who sent them and whatever security clearances they say they have. To even enter the premises here you need to have a security clearance (which takes weeks to get), or you have to be accompanied by a guard at all times that are authorized to use deadly force if needed. To access any computer you need to have a physical token that is issued to you personally, plus it’s illegal for you to allow anyone to use your physical token. We are instructed to destroy the token if we know we can’t protect it from being used by someone else, regardless who that someone is.

The amount of paranoia built into how we develop and work with these system seems ludicrous until you realize that if we fuck up it’s national headlines the next day and millions of people want our heads on a plate because they didn’t get their money. We can’t even push changes into production, they have to go through multiple staging points with different people signing off at each point. It’s not even possible to pass the first staging point if there’s no tests run because there’s no coverage and automated security reports attached to the staging request.

The sad thing about these guys working for Musk is that they will most likely be considered unemployable by many because of how and what they are doing.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Again, that’s a little extreme.

Is it? The simple fact that this “programmer”, Elez, is pushing untested updates straight to production tells you everything about his experience. Even if we were gracious and assumed that he was only doing it because Musk commanded him to do it, the consequences can still be massive.

Cooler heads will prevail, they always do.

That’s not the point; the point is what could happen before they do.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

So! Where’s all the defenses of Elon Musk only trying to root out “corruption” or whatever? Because letting a young adult put a backdoor into a federal payments system on the say-so of an unelected private citizen (who may or may not have the approval of the president to do that) to potentially let that unelected private citizen block payments on a line-item veto basis without Congressional approval seems morally heinous, ethically dubious, and highly fucking illegal to me.

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Matt says:

Re:

This part of rooting out the corruption. When fraud is found (and it will be) those payments will have to be blocked.

This is being done under the president authority and orders. I kinda doubt most President’s know how to code. Lots and lots of “unelected” programmers (some gov employees, some contractors) carry out their orders nonetheless.

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Matt says:

Re: Re: Re:

Uhm no? Authority for budgeting lies with the House of Representatives.

You seem really confused. If a payment is fraudulent, by definition it was not authorized by congress (both houses of congress are involved budget appropriations).

The president has no authority here.

That’s completely wrong, the president is absolutely responsible for making sure money is spent as congress authorized. Huge part of the job, actually. (That’s the execute part of “executive”) The problem is that treasury is pretty obviously approving at least some fraudulent charges.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

If a payment is fraudulent, by definition it was not authorized by congress (both houses of congress are involved budget appropriations).

Except Musk’s crew isn’t the DOJ investigating fraud. They’re just tech bros fucking with code. They aren’t able or authorized to investigate and determine fraud or guilt. If there’s fraud, you can allege it and get it investigated. This isn’t a path to that.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

If there is fraud you do not need a backdoor to stop the transfer of payments.
Just by looking at the payments you cannot determine if they are fraudulent.
A wannabe dictator and a delusional incompetent techbro screaming there is fraud is not enough to determine if there is actual fraud going on.

Neither the wannabe dictator or the delusional incompetent techbro have the right to block payments. Disbursement or the stopping of said disbursement is the task of congress. Trying to prevent this is illegal due to Nixon trying to do the same thing and thanks to that getting a law passed that actively denies anyone but congress to do so. At most the wannabe dictator can delay payments by 45 days, or less if congress responds earlier to the request. There is no need for a backdoor to delay payments.

As for the actual coding? You don’t do it with just 1 guy (regardless of how experienced they are) on a system this important. At least 2, preferably 3 teams, consisting of all the specializations needed per team (which means splitting them in sub-teams seeing the size and complexity of the system in question), a separate team of support personnel. Think data archivists, language experts, law specialists, and so on.
That is dozens of people just to get a change done in such a way that you don’t risk crashing the entire system.
It also allows you to coordinate maintenance to the system and not do unplanned and undocumented changes to the system while other changes are being added into said system. Especially not unplanned and undocumented changes while a major change is planned only weeks later.

Also each and every one of those people has to had a background check not this temporary waiver that is now being abused to get people that would not pass that background check into positions to get he wannabe dictator to be a real dictator.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“Legal/not legal” is not just whatever you happen to like, or not like.

That’s hilarious levels of projection coming from you, dude, who has spent years on this site declaring “legal/not legal” based on whatever you happen to like or not like.

And every time you’ve been wrong.

Including now.

If a payment is fraudulent, that’s the role of the Inspectors General to determine, and there is a clear process, under law, to stop such fraudulent payments. It’s not “let this kid have access to our COBOL system”

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Matt says:

Re:

How would you feel about this situation if Kamala Harris was president and George Soros

I mean, that was basically the status quo last 4 years. The Biden/Harris administration did DIFFERENT things I didn’t like (and some of them really were unconstitutional) but they did a lot of crazy, radical things.

(read: a Black woman and a Jew),

Hey, buddy, STOP TRYING TO CALL EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU RACIST. Also, nearly all the anti-semites these days are democrats.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

they did a lot of crazy, radical things

They did nothing like let an unelected private citizen and his private goon squad have access to government payment systems.

STOP TRYING TO CALL EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU RACIST.

I’m not calling everyone who disagrees with me “racist”.

I’m calling you a racist. Also: Fuck you, make me.

nearly all the anti-semites these days are democrats

If that were true, it wouldn’t explain why all the major White supremacist and Neo-Nazi groups align themselves with Republicans/conservatives.

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Matt says:

Re: Re: Re:

White supremacist and Neo-Nazi groups align

Those barely exist, actually (estimated are about 6k nationwide). They certainly are dwarfed hundreds of times over by the hamas supporters (not palestine, Hamas).

I’m calling you a racist. Also: Fuuck you, make me.

You have literally no basis to call me that. So yeah, you call everyone who disagrees with you racist.

I’m done. Every absolutely ret@arded, sloppy, emotional argument you make (all of them, and they are oh so tiring), I’m just going to respond “I don’t debate race-baiters”.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

They certainly are dwarfed hundreds of times over by the hamas supporters

That you see supporters for the freedom of Palestinians to live in an unoccupied Gaza as “Hamas supporters” is…telling.

You have literally no basis to call me that.

Other than the fact that you’re opposed to DEI and that you’re more than willing to defend white conservatives for doing outlandish shit while openly criticizing anyone a shade darker than “pale” for the most milquetoast bullshit. Weren’t you also opposed to the phrase “Black lives matter”?

you call everyone who disagrees with you racist

I don’t do that unless I have reason to believe they’re racist⁠—like, say, someone expressing other forms of bigotry (e.g., ableism, queerphobia, sexism). I mean, I’ve disagreed with Mike Masnick in the past, and I haven’t called him a racist. Plenty of other long-time commenters and I have had discussions where we disagreed with one another, and I didn’t call them racists over those disagreements. I’m calling you a racist because you’ve already admitted your bigotry in one instance and used bigoted slurs in another, so I have every reason to believe you’re a racist on top of that.

I’m done.

You’re not, or else you’d leave this site that you claim to hate and let the people you claim to hate finally be free of all your self-loathing and anger over having to defend the actions of a fascist and his billionaire ally. But you won’t because you’re just too fucking obsessed with this site, with being right, and…well, maybe even with me, you parasocial freak.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

That you see supporters for the freedom of Palestinians to live in an unoccupied Gaza as “Hamas supporters” is…telling.

hamas supporters (not palestine, Hamas).

I literally qualified it, Hamas supporters, not palestinian supporter. Why did you edit that out?!

Oh, that’s right, you’re a worthless piece of sh!t race baiter, literally editing my words to seem worse.

I am SO done.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

I am SO done.

And yet, you’re still here. Can’t keep me out of your head? 😁

I literally qualified it

And yet, so many of your fellow right-wing shitheads will go ahead and say that anyone who supports Gazan Palestinians and their right to self-determination is a Hamas supporter. Why should I ever believe you’re any different from them when you’re just as eager to use various bigoted slurs as they are?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

They had contractors do programming every day

Were those contractors acting directly on the behalf of the president by what amounts to executive fiat? Were those contractors hired/chosen by an unelected private citizen to carry out the orders of that private citizen on behalf of the president? Were those contractors trying to install a backdoor into the code that may or may not allow that unelected private citizen to enact a line-item veto on spending that was already allocated by Congress?

Go ahead, show me the evidence that any “contractors” during the Biden administration did anything close to what Musk and his Incel Geek Squad have done over the past few days. I’ll wait.

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Anonymous Coward says:

he’s pushing untested changes directly into production

I’ve seen it dozen of times, with junior dev being pressured by incompetent project managers (who think they are brilliant engineers).
And sometime, it gives very good results in very little time.
From what I’ve seen during the last 15 years, I would say less than 0.1% of the time.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

The only derangement I see is from people like you who treat Elon Musk as above even the mildest criticism.

These engineers are being celebrated as modern day heroes by the normies. They’re computer forensic geniuses, fighting against a corrupt bureaucracy.

LMAO, no they’re not. They’re hired goons being paid to allow an unelected private citizen (on orders from the president) to dismantle a government agency without Congressional approval and reappropriate funds that were already appropriated by Congress. It’s called “trying to make the legislature useless” from where I sit…and I’d also call that a coup if I didn’t want bootlicking fuckstains like you trying to give me hearing damage by yelling in my ear about how it isn’t.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

And you defend everything he does as if he’s the second coming of Jesus Christ, which is exactly my point: When you treat someone as being above any and all criticism, that’s deranged as fuck.

You know what Biden Derangement Syndrome would be, by the by? It would be someone like me saying “Biden was an awesome president, you’re just being mean because he’s a Democrat”. But I never once did that. Hell, I loved calling him a centrist needledick because that’s exactly what he was: a centrist needledick who believed the GOP was still full of people with basic human decency instead of a bunch of proto-fascists. That motherfucker deluded himself into thinking he could work with Republicans who didn’t want to work with him any more than they wanted to work with Obama.

You and Koby being unwilling to criticize Elon in any way other than what I would call “milquetoast criticism”⁠—i.e., criticizing him for unimportant bullshit⁠—is deranged as fuck. No person is above criticism. That includes the richest racist in the world.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Elon Musk is both Autistic and subject to emotional outbursts. There, I’ve criticized Musk.

That’s not criticism. That’s stating a fact. (And that assumes you believe Elon is actually autistic instead of excusing his actions on autism when he’s only ever said he’s self-diagnosed himself as autistic.)

I am absolutely not going to criticize someone in the way you think I should

In which case, you’re never going to criticize Elon Musk, which is deranged as hell. Is that because he’s white, conservative, and rich, by the by? I notice that you tend to defend at all costs people who meet those requirements, but you’ll endlessly criticize anyone who isn’t at least two of those things and isn’t a “DEI person” (read: your slur of choice) otherwise.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

EDS

It’s not ‘EDS’ – it’s the ‘I hate those filthy fucking immigrants’ we’ve been hearing from the last 8 years.

Don’t you know those pieces of shit are the cause of all of this country’s problems? I find it funny that Trump, (who imported his wife) is now employing another fucking immigrant, instead of an American.

Get yourselves on the same fucking page, and ship Elon back to Africa where he belongs. We don’t need to import our talent. We’ve got plenty of it coming out of our own schools with essential knowledge of the bible and ten commandments.

Employ Americans, not half-breeds like Elon who are poisoning our pure American blood.

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Matt says:

Payments are going to have to be blocked

The entire problem was that apparently Treasury was approving EVERY transaction, no exceptions, and by necessity that will enable a lot of fraud.

Remember Treasury’s reassurance that no payments would be blocked?

You’re being obtuse on purpose. No payments are being blocked YET. When they find some fraud (and they will) of COURSE they’re going to block that, that’s the whole point.

Daily reminder that this is completely legal, the ENTIRE executive branch works for president, these people are authorized, and this is exactly what the majority of people voted for.

I wouldn’t expect you to like it. How much money have companies under your control gotten from government contracts? 3rd part NGOs? I know you wanted to be par of this censorship-industrial complex you lied about not existing. You’re part of the pork being cut.

Elections have consequences.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

The entire problem was that apparently Treasury was approving EVERY transaction, no exceptions, and by necessity that will enable a lot of fraud.

And Musk is supposedly trying to solve that by taking an axe to a problem that requires a scalpel. Try all you want, there’s no excusing the approach here.

Daily reminder that this is completely legal

Daily reminder that you’re not a lawyer, and by your own statement should shut the fuck up about matters pertaining to law.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Processing all the payments is literally Treasury’s job. Decisions about who to pay and how much are not supposed to be made by Treasury, but by the payment requester (Agencies).

Just like how your bank is supposed to make the payments you tell them to, when you tell them to, in the amount you tell them to, full stop. If your bank started exerting decision making power over your accounts and funds you’d be livid and you changing banks would be the least of the negative consequences that bank could face.

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Matt says:

Re: Re:

Processing all the payments is literally Treasury’s job.

That’s not true at all. If they detect fraud, they are not supposed to make the payment.

Just like how your bank is supposed to make the payments you tell them to

Your bank ALSO has a duty to detect fraud (by law, no less) and to halt payment if it’s fraudulent. (in practice they usually just find it easier to refund you any loses).

Everything you just said was EXACTLY wrong.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: How do you define "Fraud"

Giving you and the Musk team the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they are indeed only looking for Fraud, are they also forensic accountants in addition to being fully capable of working on extremely sophisticated Treasury systems in impossibly fast timeframes? Who decides something is fraud? Musk has been openly calling USAID a criminal organization with no evidence, so cutting off their funding is absolving Fraud in his book but not in mine, nor in the books of congress. which has appropriated these funds. Why not do this legally through appropriate channels? Present your findings to congress and bake cuts into the budget, which is due in six weeks. If there is criminal fraud, refer it to the DOJ, etc.

Re: elections have consequences – absolutely, but that doesn’t mean Trump/Musk can simply circumvent our system of government.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

How do you define “Fraud”

Fraud has definitions both in common law and specific statutes and it is the executive’s job to make their best determination in line with those definitions and if it’s up for dispute (often it is painfully obvious) those determinations can be challenged in court.

I.e. “government”.

Re: elections have consequences – absolutely, but that doesn’t mean Trump/Musk can simply circumvent our system of government.

He’s not. Trump is a huge part of our system of government, probably the most determinant part. (Musk is just acting on his authority, as does the entire Executive branch, including the Treasury)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

How much money have companies under your control gotten from government contracts?

Lots. You suckers will be paying for it for the rest of your lives. Elroy and his kiddos ain’t gonna make one bit of difference unless you’re able to hire and retain your own talent. Having the potential for a dicktard like President Musk threatening to fire you every so often isn’t gonna help that, boy.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

Evidently, you’re too stupid to use a “Reply” button.

If you wanted to have a say on how DOGE does it’s work, you probably should have applied to DOGE.

Not at all the point, but I’m not surprised you missed it.

Daily reminder you can’t read.

Well, you’ve literally said that, so…liar, liar, pants on fire, I guess?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Elez isn’t just looking at the code — he’s pushing untested changes directly into production on a system that handles trillions in federal payments:

What the actual fuck!?!
Every single place I’ve worked at this would be grounds for immediate termination (and that is in Europe) unless you could hand over a compelling reason why it had to be done. Accidental was not compelling enough, for one of the people that did this, to keep their job.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Quick question: How would you feel about this situation if Kamala Harris was president and George Soros was the unelected private citizen being tasked with tearing down USAID? I mean, would you care only because they’re “DEI people” (read: a Black woman and a Jew), or would you actually care because the situation is an insane abuse of executive power that borders on trying to neuter the power of an entire branch of the federal government?

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Matt says:

Re: Re:

How would you feel about this situation if Kamala Harris was president and George Soros

I mean, that was basically the status quo last 4 years. The Biden/Harris administration did DIFFERENT things I didn’t like (and some of them really were unconstitutional) but they did a lot of crazy, radical things.

(read: a Black woman and a Jew),

Hey, buddy, STOP TRYING TO CALL EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU RACIST. Also, nearly all the anti-semites these days are democrats.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Can't even lie to cover for their new boss well...

Currently, Treasury staff members working with Tom Krause, a Treasury employee, will have read-only access to the coded data of the Fiscal Service’s payment systems in order to continue this operational efficiency assessment.

Even setting aside the fact that later quotes show this to be a lie note the telling word in their defense of the ongoing hijacking of the agency: ‘Currently‘. As in they don’t have write access right now. You don’t include a word like that unless you plan on changing it in the future, and oops, looks like they did and have.

Given the pushing of untested code, code that’s apparently intended to be able to (at minimum) stop payments without leaving evidence and the firing of anyone that refuses to play along at this point I give it a month tops before at least one foreign government has full access to the treasury payment systems, though in their shoes I’d just sit back and watch, not like they can cause more damage that the people already (illegally) running it can.

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Ethin Probst (profile) says:

Critical system failure

Part of me can’t wait for this idiot of a developer (no, I’m not calling him an engineer, he has no idea how to engineer anything) breaks something critical and it causes a failure (or worse a cascade failure). Especially given the old hardware he’s working with. I mean, it’ll be apocalyptic in it’s bad-ness, but it will most likely definitely be the end of Musk and DOGE, probably in a permanent manner. And I can’t imagine the GOP ever being able to spin that to make it look good. Making the government “efficient” is all well and good until you cause the entire financial system of the country to collapse because your “efficiency” broke it. But who am I kidding, they’ll find some way to spin it to make it sound good even if the masses want Musk and his Dogeboys to be terminated, because people in the GOP are just that gullible.

Steph van Schalkwyk says:

Our adversaries are not 25 year old boys...

Anyone who is keeping tabs on their internet-facing router’s logs will know that every port is scanned for vulnerabilities, every split second. Our adversaries likely knew about Musk’s little boys even before the public. They will have followed their path on the internet and have profiles of said little boys. Believe it, there are scans from all kinds of devices trying to get to these data. And our adversaries are not 25 year old boys. They are battle-hardened hackers.

mark (user link) says:

Sysadmin, here

I spent 10 years at the NIH as a contractor. Sr. Linux sysadmin. I had to have clearance – I had low level, Position of Trust. These kids have NO clearance.

Plus… it’s a mainframe. It is not clear to me whether they’re running something like MVS, or Windows Server. Maybe the kids know the latter. But one week, and pushing code? Untested, except by them? Do they think this is Faceplant? That’s jail time for this situation.

my Humble Opinion (profile) says:

If they learn to terminate transactions covertly, what's to keep them from initiating transactions covertly?

Stopping funds from transferring out, and the ability to obfuscate what stopped those transfers, isn’t the worst hit the Treasury department could take.

Far worse would be if they instead redirected those transfers to different accounts, or initiated new transactions to direct funds elsewhere, and the ability to obfuscate what’s behind those transfers.

Then people who used to get funding stop getting funding, not because future transactions are blocked — but because there are no funds to support future transactions, because the accounts behind the funding are dried up.

Forget the OfficeSpace scheme to slowly squirrel away missing pennies undetected. They may have the ability to boldy move every dollar to wherever they want.

l says:

Given most of DOGE is staffed by Software engineers and coders it is absolutely a given that they are backdooring every system they touch, Total violation of the law but of course since our courts cannot physically enforce the law and the rich/Trump are in charge there is little to stop this coup and rape of our countries most secure systems. Way to go American Voter.

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