Roku Will Brick Your Streaming Devices If You Don’t Agree To Binding Arbitration
from the pray-we-don't-alter-it-any-further dept
Ever since AT&T’s 2011 Supreme Court victory, the courts have declared it perfectly legal for a corporation to erode your legal rights using fine print. As a result, most every service and company in the U.S. now uses contract fine print to try and prevent you from suing the company (either alone or in a class action), instead forcing you toward binding arbitration, a process that usually favors the company.
Streaming hardware device maker Roku is no exception, having included such language in its terms of service since 2019. But the company recently added a new wrinkle to the annoying practice: they rolled out a new terms of service that effectively blocks you from being able to use your Roku streaming device or TV until you agree to the immolation of your own legal rights.
The company’s terms of service feature a freshly designed “Informal Dispute Resolution” system, whereby anybody who has a complaint about Roku’s service is required to have a “meet-and-confer” call with Roku lawyers, who claim they’ll “make a fair, fact-based offer of resolution.” If that doesn’t work, you’re sent to binding arbitration. If you disagree, your devices become paperweights.
You can still opt out of the arbitration and dispute resolution rules and use your device, but it requires sending a written letter (including a bunch of personal and device information the company likely already has) to a Roku lawyer who may or may not resolve your concerns on a timely basis:
- Stephen Kay, General Counsel, Roku, Inc.
1701 Junction Court, Suite 100
San Jose, CA 95112
Not too surprisingly, Roku is refusing to respond to press inquiries as to why it thought being a restrictive and obnoxious jackass was a great business decision.
Filed Under: arbitration, ownership, streaming, terms of service
Companies: roku
Comments on “Roku Will Brick Your Streaming Devices If You Don’t Agree To Binding Arbitration”
Did they miss the fun game where people got very very angry and all filed arbitration demands 1 after the other for thousands of people… it was so bad they really wanted to go back to class action.
I miss the old days when corporations sold you something & then worked on making the next version better more desirable instead of finding ways to keep sucking money out of you while doing nothing to better the product.
Well it just ads another icon on the label to make sure I won’t consider buying that product.
Re:
You didn’t miss it. However, like bacteria upon which too little antibiotic has been used, corporations have adapted to mass arbitration strategies with bellweather arbitration provisions…
See here for example.
As if I needed another reason to skip Roku. lol
Yes, and within 30 days.
But try to understand them, they don’t want (or can’t afford) being sued or a class action so prefer to deal in one-to-one (pretty much like mafia when blackmailing shops to promise a “protection”).
They even goes in the right way by only let you “Agree” on the new terms popup, which makes sense because nobody ever read terms, like instruction manuals (even their one-page setup manual).
So, just trust them (and pay) and Happy Streaming!
That’s rather unfair. In the main, donkeys (male or otherwise) are generally more personable, less stubborn, and have more good sense.
Roku had a chance to standout, instead they decided to be worse
Between this and Roku’s feud with Amazon over Twitch has made me dearly regret choosing a Roku Streaming Stick for our porch TV to give it streaming smarts.
I explicitly choose Roku thinking supporting the “underdog” instead of google, amazon etc would give me better results and instead I’ve dealt with this bullshit and not being able to easily watch the streaming content I watch most on it.
Add to this Googles removal of Miracast support from Pixel devices and Roku’s lack of Chromecast protocol support means my Roku has been more frustration than useful and I’m definitely going with literally anything else next time I need to upgrade it.
I do not understand why Roku thinks any of this is a good idea. They could make plenty of money on the devices and partnerships with TV makers but instead decided they must milk their customer base for all they have for no gain.
Another shitty decision from a greedy executive team.
Best Regards,
A Laid-off Former Roku Employee
Speculation
Nothing to back this up but, given the update forces arbitration, it sounds like Roku is about to make some changes that they think could lead to people suing them. This is a pre-emptive step to force those cases into arbitration, where they’ll die.
My guess is they got hacked and are trying to get in front of lawsuits.
Re:
You think?
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/over-15-000-hacked-roku-accounts-sold-for-50-each-to-buy-hardware/
Can we just make arbitration clauses like this illegal? Just repeal the federal arbitration act altogether and make it unlawful to force individuals into binding arbitration under any circumstances.
Re:
Yes; there’s almost certainly no Constitutional problem with Congress taking such an action. They just have to be convinced to do it.
Re: Re:
Yeah, convince congress to do its job instead of refusing to even talk to the other party members, just bitching about them trying to ruin the world. Sabatoge and accusations are the only order of the day for congress. Try making a budget instead of shutting down the entire government every couple of months. Talk about assholes!
Wondering the legality
I have always wondered about the legality of these types of upgrade ‘requirements’ or even just the bricking of devices. I have not wondered enough to research this yet.
If I buy a widget and then they stop supporting it, essentially bricking it, or require an agreement to additional terms, essentially bricking the widget, can I get a refund on the widget?
Now, to expand on this question: You buy a TV or car, you disagree with the selling of your data, and most of the advertised features are disabled. Could this be considered an unfair and deceptive business practice?
Re: class action
smells like a class action opportunity…which would still be viable since the arbitration has not yet been agreed to by all those affected by the forced opt in…
Re:
Really, we’re talking about a service rather than a device here. There’s probably little legal basis for forcing a manufacturer to refund the device you were using to access their service, just because the service started to suck.
Companies are free to make their services suck. If you’re locked into a term contract, that might be a valid basis to break it; otherwise, just stop subscribing.
A device such as a Roku box or an iPhone, that’s basically unusable without a separate legal agreement with the manufacturer, is a problem. That’s more the domain of right-to-repair laws; allowing people to install their own firmware would “fix” it, while still sending most such hardware to the trash.
But what else could realistically be done? Binding arbitration could be banned, but that’s not a real fix. We’d just be able to sue them for whatever shitty thing they were planning to do and were worried about getting sued for. Is there a good way to quantify how much service-shittiness justifies a refund for the hardware meant for that service? What if the hardware were made by a different company than the service operator?
Maybe all post-signup changes to user agreements should be banned, though I’d expect such a rule to have unforseen consequences.
In the UK the Unfair contracts act provides one of two remedies:
1) you can click-through and the ENTIRE TCs become null and void. This is because under UK law, one side cannot arbitrarily change something mid-contract. The other side MUST be given a chance to continue using their purchase unimpeded, otherwise the user is entitled to ignore the new contract entirely.
2) Small claims court. Here you can claim the ORIGINAL purchase price of your Roku Device because they have maliciously bricked it trying to force you to agree to a totally different set of conditions for purchase, years after the fact. Bonus with this…you can go for UPTO £10,000 as damages.
Re:
What does “mid-contract” mean? I don’t believe there’s a term contract here; anyone can cancel at any time. Is that good enough for the U.K.? Or are people who signed up for telephone land-lines in the 1970s still on their original contracts at their original prices? That’d be nice, but doesn’t seem realistic.
“Malice” has a specific meaning, and if you’ve got to prove malice it may be difficult.
“Bricked” has a meaning too, and Karl is being overly colloquial with it. The device remains just as useful for the only thing it was ever meant to do: accessing one specific service.
Apparently, the device is locked such that people can’t ever make it do anything else, such as connect to a competitor. That might be of some interest to a court. But Roku giving people the keys to install their own firmware images would resolve that problem, while not really fixing anything from the customer point of view.
Re: Re:
Around a year into the two-year term you’re legally locked into to get your phone for ‘free’. Yes, contracts do exist in the UK. Just because either the company can choose to walk away (and make a minor loss on the cost of the hardware) or the customer can choose to pay cash money to make the device wholly theirs earlier doesn’t mean that no piece of paper was signed and no contracts exist in the UK, dipshit.
Re: Re: Re: Mid-Contract
I think the point is that those two-year terms you refer to are set at the signing of the contract (when it starts). The company can’t decide after 1 year that the new cash money to own is twice as much, or you can only pay with gold, or that option is no longer available.
Note that I didn’t refer to you as a dipshit in writing, regardless of what I may think in my head.
Rule #1:
Don’t you know? The first rule about enshittification is you don’t talk about enshittification, especially with the press!
Maybe choose products that don’t make you the product, mining all your private and personal details they then sell on to the “data brokers” another article today calls out. Go with manufacturers who get their profit up front and don’t secretly take it away from you over the life of the product.
Re:
hahaha, u funny
Re: Things change
Ummmm… Wasn’t that why a fair proportion of Roku’s customers went with Roku in the first place?
Re: Re:
Was it? Wikipedia says “Roku launched its own streaming channel on its devices in October 2017. It is ad-supported, but free”—which sounds like the model the previous anonymous poster was advising against.
It’s unclear about what their business model was before that, but I don’t see anything about paid subscriptions before 2019. Maybe they just manufactured hardware? But then why would they be firmware-locked so as to require “jailbreaking”?
Re: Re: Re:
The first hit is always free
Re: Re: Re:2
Cool. Bring the bong.
Won't be buying any more Roku devices
Done with Roku!
Streaming….now binding….remember when you bought a TV and plug it in and watch tv..I got roku tv cause a friend told me about …oh you just hook it up to your TV and that’s it …BULLSHIT…If you wanna watch football you gotta buy this…roku tells me go to paramount + to watch football and it said $11.99 I had $35.00 left on my card…they took it all and told me I don’t have enough funds in my account but they took all my money and I got nothing….for us senior citizen that are on a budget this whole TV shit is bullshit…I gotta figure out what to do about football next year…
All tv people
Streaming….now binding….remember when you bought a TV and plug it in and watch tv..I got roku tv cause a friend told me about …oh you just hook it up to your TV and that’s it …BULLSHIT…If you wanna watch football you gotta buy this…roku tells me go to paramount + to watch football and it said $11.99 I had $35.00 left on my card…they took it all and told me I don’t have enough funds in my account but they took all my money and I got nothing….for us senior citizen that are on a budget this whole TV shit is bullshit…I gotta figure out what to do about football next year…I see you call people cowards…I wish you guys had a store near me …so that I could visit you you and have a very nice conversation and why won’t you post my comment???
Given the price point, the majority of Roku devices are basically disposable, so I fail to see the big deal here. So what if you can’t sue them if it stops working? Who would actually waste the time and expense of doing so, anyway? What I see here is a bunch of noise about essentially nothing. Are they trying to Streisand up some publicity to generate sales? Entirely possible.
Roku has a special place in the attic between the thigh master and the quadraphonic.
Enshittification
The trend toward total, all-encompassing enshittification of everything marches on.
Roku Will Brick Your Streaming Devices If You Don’t Agree To Binding Arbitration
That’s ok, I have Amazon and Google streaming devices. Let’s see have Roku handles losing a shitload of customers.
Uh, does this count?
I think my 10yo agreed on all my devices. Does that mean she has to go through arbitration and I don’t?
Dissatisfied and disappointed
Well I agree with everyone on here.. maybe we should all boycott..in this day of cancel culture, shouldn’t we just cancel our subscription to Roku… right now I have dish which offers Netflix and Amazon…as well as my Roku box…I have no problem ending Roku services..so who’s with me
If people wake up .. this can easily be considered bait and switch tactic in which you buy their products/service and they change the rules after purchase. (Lawsuit) Contracts are doubled edge swords, new suit for changing rules after purchase where they make my unit useless after they profit. Brick it voluntarily in masses … No eyes no stock rise.
Re:
Did my post say Anonymous Coward? No, you doing the same game as Roku of Social Credit Score. We don’t agree with agreeing to sign up. Make a statement and now it’s name calling. No, Social shaming is that better. In the end you lose we all lose.
Terms signature
I want to agree to the terms but can’t find where it is to sign and agree
I hope that solves the problem okay.
I do not have TikTok. I never did have it okay.
Roku
So you buy a t.v and if you what to waiver (not agree) to the terms your t.v is weathless.because you can’t use it unless you agree to there terms even though you bought the TV. I propose and Idea they should have a way that you can uninstalled the app like cellular phone if you are not happy with ther waiver but they won’t give you that option.
Why are you going to Brick my device?
I don’t understand why I am getting this message saying that if I don’t accept this you will brick my device from all steaming apps..I went on to Rocu app on my phone more than a month ago and accepted it then. So what’s the deal? You are to brick my device for something that I have already agreed to. Either you don’t check this out very well to see, or this is a scam and you want us to click on to a bogus site to get info. This is why I didn’t click on the link better than a month ago and went onto the Rocu site and looked it up and did it there’s been so many people getting scam like this from people copying other companies apps and pretending to be that company and get taken in by them. I am afraid to accept anything on the internet anymore. I have had some one that over the past couple of years gotten into my bank account and tried to access my from it, but thank God I have a bank that let’s me know when something doesn’t look right. Thank God for what’s been done to prevent it. I don’t know how they are able to even get into it at all, because I don’t give my information out on the internet, phone, or any form.I get a call wanting info for something that sounds like it’s on the level or even an email with a link I immediately hangup, or close the email, and I go directly to my own information that I have for it or Google it and directly to them. I don’t accept anything anymore without checking it out directly. I guess I will have to call Rocu and access it again and find out why I am getting this again after I have already accepted it. Good luck to anyone that that takes chances from this. I hope it isn’t some kind of scam.
Roku
I can put them right back the door as fast as I put it in. I don’t need Roku to live. Start dropping them and see how fast their policy changes
Because they got hacked
I just read an article 2 days ago claiming ROKU was hacked. This pop-up is just CYA for poor security.
Objk.com/@nftbroke
The erosion and restriction of liberties are nothing new. Consider this modus operandi for all companies in the future; “It’s our way or go back to the old tech of 1650 and read books.”
Honestly we haven’t seen nothing yet. Wait until all paper monies are gone and cars drive them selves, that’s when the real fun and absolute control kick in.
I agree