Yes, The First Amendment Protects Displaying The ‘Thin Blue Line’ Flag Even In Publicly Owned Buildings

from the but-especially-unpopular-speech dept

Most people seem to understand the First Amendment protects their right to say stupid or offensive things, especially when they’re the ones saying them. These same people often forget the First Amendment does not protect them from counter-speech, during which they may be publicly decried as stupid or offensive.

The same goes for most government employees in most situations. First Amendment protections aren’t quite as free-ranging when public servants are involved, but it certainly doesn’t just disappear because the expression springs from government sources.

That’s the upshot of this decision, which features some hot government-on-government action. On one side, we have police officers and their union litigating on behalf of their First Amendment rights after being “silenced” by a city statute that targeted just one particular form of expression: the display of the cop-bastardized version of the American flag known as the “Thin Blue Line” flag.

The decision [PDF], handed down by a federal court in Pennsylvania (and brought to us by Courthouse News Service), contains some handy depictions just in case no one’s familiar with law enforcement’s preferred “us vs. them” shorthand.

There’s this version, which is described by the law enforcement plaintiffs in their lawsuit as representing a “show of support for [and] a solidarity with member[s] of law enforcement, which includes, police officers.” Not only that but it allegedly “represents the preservation of the rule of law” and the “sacrifice of fallen law enforcement officers.”

Whew. That’s a lot to ask from one slightly altered American flag. But that’s what the suing officers claim, as well as the union reps from the Springfield Township Police Benevolent Association (PBA), which has not-so-boldly decided to incorporate this separatist version of the American flag into its logo:

Kind of gross, to be honest. The “blue line” flag doesn’t do the things the plaintiffs claim it does. Instead, when displayed by cops or their unions, it represents the “us vs. them” mentality that permeates US law enforcement. The “thin blue line” doesn’t represent cops saving us non-cops from criminal anarchy as much as it represents law enforcement’s insular culture. But I suppose a “circle the wagons” flag wouldn’t be nearly as popular.

In this mockup, the stars represent police supervisors, union reps, and other officers on the scene surrounding an officer involved in an egregious violation of rights — a show of solidarity that includes crafting narratives, synchronizing statements, and applying generous amounts of white-out to in-progress reports to ensure everyone is telling the same story the PD’s PR reps are currently delivering to nearby reporters. More accurate but certainly far less inspiring.

Anyway… back to the lawsuit.

Springfield tried to break up the insular cop culture by enacting a resolution prohibiting the display of the “thin blue line” flag “on all township property” earlier this year. That resolution became the immediate target of this lawsuit, filed by a handful of PD employees, as well as their police union.

Why? Because these cops and their reps have plastered the “blue line” flag all over the police station, which resides inside the main township government building. While not displayed (at least not prominently) in areas accessible by the public, the fake-ass flag is displayed nearly everywhere else in the station.

Although there are no depictions of the Flag in the lobby area of the station (Doc. No. 47-1 at ¶ 80), it does appear in other areas of the station, to which the public has limited access (id. at ¶ 75), including:

  • A bulletin board displaying patches from other police departments depicting the Thin Blue Line American Flag,
  • A wooden Thin Blue Line American Flag hanging on a wall,
  • A Thin Blue Line American Flag hanging on a wall,
  • Thin Blue Line American Flags displayed in the safety office,
  • A wooden “ballot type” box,
  • On a recycling bin, and
  • On challenge coins displayed on officers’ desks.

The court notes the township perhaps had a legitimate reason to forbid the posting of this flag on town property.

While Plaintiffs revere the Thin Blue Line American Flag, many members of the public, including residents of Springfield Township, view it as a symbol of police brutality and racial animosity.

The town passed its resolution, prompted in part by the police union’s decision to revamp its logo to incorporate the “blue line” flag. The police union and these police officers wanted nothing to do with dispelling the perception that those displaying this particular flag were supportive of law enforcement actions/officers who engaged in police brutality and/or racial animosity. Instead, they sued.

They’re right, even if their insistence on displaying this flag is not nearly as correct. Whatever injury they might suffer (which appears to be, at most, a reprimand from city officials and/or removal of the offending flag) is still an injury. The speech is protected and this specific targeting of only one certain form of expression by town employees is exactly the sort of thing the First Amendment strictly forbids.

The Township has not, and indeed, cannot, contest that the Resolution is a viewpoint regulation—it prohibits employees, agents, and consultants from displaying only the Thin Blue Line American Flag, not from displaying flags or political speech generally.

Not only that, but if the town wished to eliminate expression that might undermine trust in local law enforcement or discourage racially divisive behavior, it needed to go even further than it did here. On one hand, the law goes too far already. On the other hand, it doesn’t go far enough, as least according to the town’s own assertions in defense of its hastily erected (and poorly thought out) resolution against this one particular form of speech.

In addition to being overbroad, the Resolution is underinclusive in that Township employees, including police officers, are allowed to engage in other forms of discourse that could exacerbate racial tensions and undermine public confidence in the Police Department. For example, nothing in the Resolution precludes an officer, while on duty and in uniform, from voicing opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement or for example, carrying a coffee cup that says, “Blue Lives Matter.” Both forms of speech would seem to trigger the same concerns that the Township is trying to address through the Resolution, perhaps in an even more direct way.

Sure, it’s a little bit more complex than that because it involves the government regulating the government, but at the end of it all, it’s still impermissible. The town’s cops are free to be divisive and the town’s residents are free to think the cops are being divisive. But the town itself can’t really do much about this other than encourage its officers to be less divisive. The First Amendment protects this expression, though, as divisive as it may be. And that’s how it should be. Even divisive expression is still protected expression.

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Comments on “Yes, The First Amendment Protects Displaying The ‘Thin Blue Line’ Flag Even In Publicly Owned Buildings”

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

How can something work and yet not do anything.

That’s a question only posed by someone who want to conflate “not effective” with “it didn’t work”.

Have you never heard someone say “It works, but it’s not as effective as doing X”?

If your car is dirty, hosing it off will work but it wont be effective in getting it clean, it’ll only get a bit cleaner.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Not that long ago in human history, blood letting was purported to ‘work’.

Did you know that blood-letting actually work for some diseases and is still in practice today? It’s used for hemochromatosis and polycythemia for example.

also the burning of witches was a thing that ‘worked’.

No, it didn’t work.

You have built your poor bastard of a strawman on your confusion what is belief and what is fact.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Historically, violent revolution is the only way with priven, bloody results that also wipes the slate clean enough to make long-lasting change (via eliminating the incumbent).

That’s usually why states have a monopoly on that violence.

And revolutions don’t always involve Lenin. Slave revolts, for one, don’t usually involve the, ahem, hammer and sickle.

Plus, once the non-violent options are gone, you don’t really have an option left. And believe me, the non-violent means of resistance will eventually go away if we let the fascists get their way.

And there’s 74 million Americans who want the Confederate States back.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

‘Fascist behavior’ – you’ve got to be kidding me. This is a prime example of why the Left and the Right can’t find common ground. We don’t even agree on the definition of ‘Fascism’ any longer. Ours is a classical definition of Fascism and yours is some new age interpretation.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

” why the Left and the Right can’t find common ground.”

There is no common ground to be found, this is becoming more clear to more people every day resulting in reducing the numbers of those who associate with ‘the right’.

The republican party no longer exists, it has been commandeered by dictator wannabees. The crazy caucus is driving your clown car off a cliff with you in it and you happily cheer them on. Why would a sane person vote for such outlandish irresponsibility?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

“There is no common ground to be found, this is becoming more clear to more people every day resulting in reducing the numbers of those who associate with ‘the right’.”

If we cannot find common ground nor find a way to compromise on the issues then the only fate awaiting us both is a very blood and very brutal civil war or an amicable national divorce. It’s that simple. Neither of us want that outcome because the resulting horrors we would both visit upon ‘the other’ should this country descend into such chaos would make anything we’ve seen in Ukraine and Israel look amateurish due to the fratricidal nature of it. And just like in every war ever fought our women and children would suffer the worst from it. We need to find a way to meet in the middle on the most divisive and complicated issues we’re facing – not try to force the other to submit under our boot heal. It’s the only appropriate way forward.

“The republican party no longer exists, it has been commandeered by dictator wannabees. The crazy caucus is driving your clown car off a cliff with you in it and you happily cheer them on. Why would a sane person vote for such outlandish irresponsibility?”

The Republican party has lost it’s way just as the Democrat party has. Where-as the Republican party is being slowly taken over by a minority of extremists so is the Democrat party. You see the Republican party as Fascist; we see the Democrat party as Authoritarian Totalitarians. Both sides have their issues, both sides are being dominated by minority extremists and those of us on both sides more centered and moderated are being ignored despite the centrists being the majority.

The Democrat Party has also shown to be outlandish and irresponsible on several occasions. How can I support a Party that by most policy positions is an anathema to everything I was raised to believe? Your good clashes with my good and we’re both perceiving each-others view of ‘good’ as ‘wrong and evil’. A lot of the issues we’re facing could be resolved if we as a nation could just start talking to one-another again on the issues and trying to understand each-others perspectives.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

“This is why we must simply exterminate all Democrats, before they can do the same to us. Thankfully, we’ll have the police on our side, and the military will likely stay out of it, or also skew Right.”

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve read today and that’s saying something because I just finished reading today’s Kremlin Press Briefing and I didn’t think someone could top that level of bull-hit.

This is the kind of remark driving extremism on both sides and those who author such remarks should be ridiculed and criticized. We’re all American and we all want what’s best for our country and most of all our children.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve read today…

Why do you think this?

We’re all American and we all want what’s best for our country and most of all our children.

Many Democrats may have American citizenship, but they’re not good, loyal or right-thinking Americans, and they certainly don’t want what’s best for the country or the children. They literally hate America and want to indoctrinate children into neo-Marxism.

Democrats are a threat to the Republic (and Republicans!) and must be eliminated.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

“Why do you think this?”

Because they don’t believe the ridiculous nonsense that you went on to spout, and understand that the Democratic party is a centre-right party that would barely pass as conservative in most other first world countries?

I’d suggest you re-read your own words. You just suggested that people need to be murdered because they have opinions other than your own. That used to be the excuse you gave for fighting the cold war, to protect the people who faced that risk.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

You just suggested that people need to be murdered because they have opinions other than your own.

Why are you surprised by this? It’s a key tenet of the Left.

I just propose acting against them before they manage to imprison or kill the majority of patriots.

I’d rather live in Allende’s Chile or Argentina under dictatorship than spend another four years watching evil Democrat elites flood this once-great country with the worst immigrant scum imaginable while simultaneously persecuting red-blooded Americans.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13

” see it happening on both sides.”

Donald told us all to ingest chlorine as a means to fight the covid virus, or alternately shove a flashlight up our bumms. Many republicans went along with it, disrupting the distribution of medical supplies and information in an effort to cause chaos and death among the minorities in large cities.

Biden did none of that. The sane world produced a vaccine that the donald world rejected.

But they are both the same ….

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14

“The sane world produced a vaccine that the donald world rejected”

Whichever side you’re on, I hope that the myth of “A” vaccine dies. There were multiple vaccines developed though various methods, some using mRNA and some not. Most of which were relatively mature because even though the novel coronvirus was unknown, people has been working on coronaviruses for decades.

Trump and his cult deserve many criticisms for their actions, especially when they believe it was mainly a blue state problem, but let’s not fall into the trap of claiming there was a single vaccine. There were several, and even if you thought the mRNA versions would turn you into a frog, others were available. The only thing was that there wasn’t a vaccine against ignorance.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Stop with the fucking bothsidesism.

The Republicans became WILLING RUSSIAN PATSIES, rallied behind a shitty white supremacist, kept throwing tantrums DESPITE BEING IN POWER, and, oh, TRIED TO DO A FUCKING INSURRECTION.

The Dems, despite their failures, have not tried to violently interrupt the peaceful transfer of power.

If your definition of “good” involves a fucking insurrection, then maybewither you should start seeing the fucking facts as they stand.

Otherwise the Samson Doctrine is gonna look childish after the US starts nuking itself.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Stop with the fucking bothsidesism.

I can’t change the fact that both sides are indeed a problem. Accept that as a fact. Only when we realize that both sides represent threats to our Republic – albeit different threats – can we finally find solutions.

The Republicans became WILLING RUSSIAN PATSIES, rallied behind a shitty white supremacist, kept throwing tantrums DESPITE BEING IN POWER, and, oh, TRIED TO DO A FUCKING INSURRECTION.

I’m a Republican and I have been my entire life. I absolutely detest the Russian Government. If ever presented with an opportunity to rid the world of the Russian Crypt Keeper (Vladimir) I’d take it in a heartbeat.

There is a small albeit loud part of our party that supports Russia due to the propaganda being spread by useful idiots and a masterstroke of Kremlin information warfare. On a whole however we do absolutely believe in arming Ukraine.

I’m extremely agitated that President Biden has been to cautious with the type of military equipment being sent and am frustrated with the time it’s taking for Ukraine to receive it. Ukraine should have the F15EX and F16V already. They should have missiles capable of striking Russian assets INSIDE RUSSIA. I have no problem crossing every single red line Russia has – we should.

That having been said I do want a full accounting of how our military equipment is being used and how the money is spent down to the last cent. I want accountability. Ukraine does have, and indeed has always had a serious corruption problem. I am proud that they’re making significant strides during a war no less to fix these problems. Their desire to be part of the EU and NATO shows in the actions they’ve taken. However I want every single bullet, every cent and every piece of equipment accounted for. That is not unreasonable.

rallied behind a shitty white supremacist

For the record anybody who subscribes to the White Supremacist ideology is an inherent piece of human garbage. We’re all human – every single one of us. I have zero tolerance for White Supremacy. No race is superior to another. Period. Full stop.

However the term ‘White Supremacist’ has been widely diluted for the last decade. I am seriously curious – who exactly are we talking about here that has espoused White Supremacist ideology? Is it a part of White Supremacist ideology to say that the White demographic in this country is being slowly forced into a minority status due to unchecked immigration?

TRIED TO DO A FUCKING INSURRECTION.

You and I could go back and forth for hours on what exactly January 6th was. That said the situation should’ve never happened, it should’ve never occurred and those involved have been suffering appropriate consequences. If someone tries to take over a place of Government irrespective of it being Local, State or Federal they should be shot. Period.

If your definition of “good” involves a fucking insurrection, then maybewither you should start seeing the fucking facts as they stand.

It doesn’t fit into my definition of “good” by any stretch of the imagination. It just furthered our Internal divisions, splintered the country more and achieved nothing. Please don’t try to assume where I stand on issues like that – you don’t know me.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

“How can I support a Party that by most policy positions is an anathema to everything I was raised to believe? ”

Were you raised to revolt and destroy that which brought you into this world?

Why support a party that has vowed multiple times to dismantle this country piece by piece. Whilst doing this dismantling, you think Vladolf Putler and the Xi Guy will patiently wait for you?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Were you raised to revolt and destroy that which brought you into this world?

No I wasn’t but from my perspective many of the Left have been. In fact many on the Left want to tear down literally every foundational structure of our nation on some false belief that every institution is inherently racist. I’m not happy with the Republican party but I am absolutely terrified of the Democrat party. From their inherent hostility towards the First and Second Amendments to their Open Borders agenda (and yes the borders are open despite the lies from the Government), to deep cultural differences and even differences in what morality means.

I was raised to believe in our nation, to place our rights as laid out in our Constitution above all other priorities and to put the needs of our people and our nation first before anybody else. To be clear I have no moral reservation about opposing anybody by any means if necessary to protect THIS nation even if it means revolution to protect it from itself.

Both parties are doing their part to dismantle this nation. Republicans and their stupid attacks on the First Amendment to foreign deals. Democrats and their stupid attacks on the First and Second Amendments to foreign deals. Both parties are absolutely responsible for the decay of our Empire culturally, morally, and economically. I support Republicans politically because on many issues they align closer to what I believe is right and they appear to be the least damaging of the two parties. It doesn’t mean I like them. Differences between holding a live hand grenade and a live claymore mine.

And to be clear as far as Russia and China are concerned. We should be doing more to help Ukraine. Ukraine should’ve had F15/EX and F16/V aircraft a year ago. We should give them missiles to strike into Russia. IF Russia wins in Ukraine we’ll be at war with Russia and conscripted Ukrainians within a decade. I’m not going to allow my children to fight in Europe. I’ll never allow them to be forcibly drafted even if that means hiding them somewhere and preventing them from ever receiving a notification.

I’d rather spend an obscene amount of money now and see how our military equipment (that we funded) actually works against an enemy I was raised to hate from birth and I’d rather sacrifice Ukrainian lives to win a war than my own blood. It’s in our strategic and geopolitical interest to see Russian bleed White.

As far as China is concerned they’re the most dangerous adversary we’re going to face this century. In some ways their military capabilities may very well already exceed our own here in the USA. I see war with China as inevitable no matter what happens as we’re the two alphas on the block and we’re not going to quietly give up American hegemony. If China moves against Taiwan we’re probably going into World War III. So screw the Chinese too.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Really? How does anything I just said make me a ‘Putin Stooge’? You people always reset to default when you’re confronted with an opinion you can’t argue again logically.

Here let me put this in plain terms so even uneducated fools like yourself can comprehend it.

Putin and those in his regime need to die. We should assassinate them. Their families too just to be sure that a point is made.

That better?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Putin and those in his regime need to die. We should assassinate them. Their families too just to be sure that a point is made.

Firstly, love this directness. I don’t think the U.S. should risk our troops’ lives to kill Putin and his minions, but I absolutely support helping Ukraine (or some other state) to do so.

Secondly, what are your thoughts on Israel and Gaza from an American perspective?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

As well as Trump and his cronies, who have been known to take Russian money in very compromising ways.

Andthe Republican Party, for enabling this by ENDORSING HIM, FIRST IN 2016, THEN IN 2020, THEN AGAIN FOR 2024.

And the 74 million that KEEP VOTING FOR HIM.

Look at the fucking man in the mirror, that’s YOU.

Stop pretending you have nothing to do with this.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

I’d rather spend an obscene amount of money now and see how our military equipment (that we funded) actually works against an enemy I was raised to hate from birth and I’d rather sacrifice Ukrainian lives to win a war than my own blood. It’s in our strategic and geopolitical interest to see Russian bleed White.

I love this guy. Please, more takes like this! What a refreshingly realistic worldview and commentary.

Bob says:

Bad decision

I suspect that if the township appeals, this decision might be overturned. Here’s my rationale. Yes, the police officers have the right to display that bastardized flag, but the township owns the property, not the officers, and this decision essentially says that the township cannot control the message it wants to give to the general public. Neither the police officers, their management, nor their union have the right to tell the township what messaging they should or should not do.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

this decision essentially says that the township cannot control the message it wants to give to the general public.

The examples provided are not ones where it was ambiguous whether it was the police officers or the township offering the message.

The township would be well within its rights to bar the thin blue flag on police cars, as a part of the official police uniform, or similar places. Not so much on a police officer’s coffee cup, on their private vehicles, as a knickknack on their desks.

as for

… owns the property …

Consider whether the same would apply to government owned housing, and a tenant displaying a (choose one: black lives matter, LGBTQ rights, thin blue line) flag in their window.

Arianity says:

Re: Re:

The township would be well within its rights to bar the thin blue flag on police cars, as a part of the official police uniform, or similar places. Not so much on a police officer’s coffee cup, on their private vehicles, as a knickknack on their desks.

Governments can restrict private speech of public employees, particularly on the job, although it is much more limited

Anonymous Coward says:

The town’s cops are free to be divisive and the town’s residents are free to think the cops are being divisive. But the town itself can’t really do much about this other than encourage its officers to be less divisive. The First Amendment protects this expression, though, as divisive as it may be. And that’s how it should be. Even divisive expression is still protected expression.

Just so we’re clear, would you still agree with your bolded part if the flag on trial was red with a swastika on it? If not, then I believe you and the judge are wrong and you know it. Free speech doesn’t depend on the message so your argument is literally “the cops could openly present themselves as Nazis but that’s ok because it’s protected expression and there is nothing the city can do about it.”

TKnarr (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

If a Nazi is running your police force, it should be simple to solve that problem. The chief of police serves by appointment by the mayor or city council, or by election. If he’s elected, vote him out. If he’s appointed, give the appointers the choice of replace him or you’ll vote them out. And if said Nazi actually does anything like fail to investigate complaints from Jewish residents, fire him for failing to do his job (discrimination need not enter into it, his job is to investigate all complaints fairly and he’s not doing that).

ECA (profile) says:

And?

Wow,
Take the USA flag, make it Black and white, and Draw a Blue line threw it.
As soon as you take the color away it has been desecrated. And THAT used to be against the law. But as created, is NO LONGER a USA flag. Anyone want to show me the Made in China label?

LAW in the USA is based on the idea of a group of people creating regulations that everyone AGREES. to live by.
The REAL problem comes with TEACHING the police the LAW. And Which Laws they are supposed to enforce and HOW to enforce them.

But there are Other recent problems. As in the States and Fed, creating laws, the People Do Not want. Or making regulations, WITHOUT the peoples validation. Which is very interesting on HOW this is/has been done.

In States, there is a final vote, but WHO gets that vote? The Public? Or the politicians? Or is it PICK them at random and dont tell the public.

Anonymous Coward says:

What is it with flag people?
Feeling like no one listens to you and the bumper sticker just does not do it for you anymore? Get a flag! That will let everyone know just how extreme and potentially violent you are. The ones I like are the huge flag types, saw one online once that was so ridiculous I thought it was shopped but it was real apparently.

ECA (profile) says:

Re: real debate

Comes with the education of the police.
Who is teaching them What?
They Arnt teaching them the law. And thats what seems to get the police in trouble, more then anything else.
If waving a gun around, meant anything, then bank robbers would be rich.
Check cashing places have Tons of protection. And Banks Just hand over money, as they TAKE YOUR PICTURE 1000 times, and 200 cops Show up in 5 minutes or Less.

Think about this logic.
You have someone break into a school, Take a class as hostage and start shooting people..
So, you want to know WHY?
Then WHY did you shoot the person doing it?
If they wanted to be killed by cops, there are easier ways, better ways.
And if you CAPTURE the IDIOT, and send him to prison. (what they are scared of) it would teach them NOT to shoot up the schools/malls/or other places.

Anonymous Coward says:

blue lies mafia gang symbol

while this is a 1st amendment issue. the missed point is government property is neutral. so the displaying of offensive gang symbols is not permitted! so if the blue lies mafia wants to display there gang symbol. they are more then free to on there own property! NOT WE THE PEOPLE’s!
with a lot of things being deemed offensive. statutes, rebel flag, swastika, the “ok” hand gesture, certain famous names! these are are just some of the things not allowed or are being taken down or changed on government property!

Paul B says:

Re:

The rule just needed broader, something like the government shall not discriminate, advertise, or make statements related to anything non official within government buildings.

This is of course why we can’t have nice things too, but banning any kind of speech not limited to the thin blue line, should be fine since it’s government property and the town can say no to non public forums.

Does this ban girl scout cookie posters, yep. Price you pay in this situation.

HotHead (profile) says:

Re:

while this is a 1st amendment issue. the missed point is government property is neutral.

I doubt that. In matters of religion, US governments have to be neutral because courts have interpreted the intent of the First Amendment to include the principle of “separation of church and state”. But I’m not aware of a similar principle for not-religioun-related viewpoints.

HotHead (profile) says:

Re: Re: Adding clarification

Government laws cannot discriminate against certain expression over others. But “separation of church and state” goes further: a government body cannot promote a particular religious viewpoint, and therefore the decoration of a government building (not including a government official’s personal rooms in the building) cannot promote certain religious symbols. This does not apply to not-religion-related expression.

urza9814 says:

Try Treason

I think Bob has the right idea above, but frankly I’d kinda like to see them go with a charge of treason… 🙂

Firstly, it’s “We, the people” NOT “We, the duly appointed government agents.” Funny how often you see the “We the people” sticker right next to a blue line one. That ain’t what the founders were talking about.

Furthermore, the origin of that phrase is a modification of “thin RED line”, where the red was a reference to the red coats of the British army. The very same redcoats we fought our revolution against. That thin blue line flag is literally comparing the police to an occupying foreign army. And they’re PROUD of that! And those same morons call themselves patriots…

Arianity says:

The same goes for most government employees in most situations

It does. But this is right in the wheel house for a Pickering exception.

Sure, it’s a little bit more complex than that because it involves the government regulating the government, but at the end of it all, it’s still impermissible.

I mean, that’s a lotta bit complex. Because government employees on the jobs are one of the few areas where the 1st amendment is curtailed.

It’s a shame that the post doesn’t go into more detail on this, instead of broadly generalizing, because they’re really important. And the generalized argument here would also apply to stuff that would fail a Pickering/NTEU test.

That One Guy (profile) says:

If someone wants to admit to being your enemy let them

Setting aside the first amendment concerns I want any department that feels the desire to fly those flags to be able to do so because it makes it crystal clear to the public that the only people the department is interested in protecting and serving is themselves, making it less likely that members of the public will call the cops under the mistaken impression that they’ll help and reducing potential injuries and/or deaths as a result.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I get where you’re coming from, but it’s just another way for them to terrorize the populace. Not only displaying a hate symbol, but telling everyone “look, we can do whatever we want”. And it only further emboldens them to harm people when they get away with it. And racists see it as license, and display it themselves to get support from the gang.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Normally, I’d say “as long they aren’t burning a lawn or trying to intimidate people” but…

If ya haven’t fucking noticed, the police only care about white people and their opinions. Specifically, are they heilng Trump or not in this day and age.

The Natives know this, the blacks know this, and the Korean Americans also know this since 1991.

So yeah, learn how to use a gun.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: 'Vote for me, unlike the local police I actually do care about your lives/rights.'

I mean they’re doing that anyway, at least if they’re flying the ‘the only lives we care about are ours‘ flag people are less likely to have to find that out the hard way after calling them for assistance, not to mention by being so blatantly anti-public it should in theory at least be easier for politicians who might actually try to hold them accountable to be elected.

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TyredOfLibShite says:

Back The Blue

A) What does this have to do with “Tech” Dirt
B) The OP is clearly an author with an agenda & poisoned-mind and hopefully never, ever, expects public safety to serve-or-protect them.
C) Pictures & words aren’t violence. Concepts aren’t violence. Violence is physical. Plain & simple. Anything else conscripted to stand up an opinion is nonsense. I abhor plenty of symbols from private & public entities but no American has the right to restrict their existence because a ‘few’ are offended for psychologically-misfit reasons.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

lies about Tim Cushing

Perhaps he’s smart enough to realize that the face-eating leopards will come for him, since after the Natives, Black people and minorities are gone, he’ll be next.

lies about 1A

You might want to check what’s not allowed under 1A…

Also, 2 quick questions. How do you feel about the phrase “Hang Mike Pence”? And what about CSAM on social media?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“never, ever, expects public safety to serve-or-protect them.”

You are calling law enforcement Public Safety?
Since law enforcement has no duty to serve or protect, courts say so, why would anyone expect them to?

“Pictures & words aren’t violence.”

Pictures and words that incite violence are criminal in nature and should be dealt with, as in We Dont Do That Here.

“Concepts aren’t violence.”

The idea of a master race incites hatred, which leads to violence, which is criminal.

“no American has the right to restrict their existence ”

In my home, automobile and/or place of employment I do have rights pertaining to the display of offensive material. In my home they would be put in the trash. At work one would have to talk with HR or an attorney, probably best just to find a better job.

“offended for psychologically-misfit reasons.”

Not sure what this is supposed to mean. Perhaps people participated in an insurrecti0n due to psychologically-misfit reasons, idk.

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