Extraordinarily Confused Congressional Rep. Thinks Social Media Companies Are Secretly Communicating With Gov’t Censors… Via Jira
from the did-you-put-in-a-ticket dept
I wrote last week about the bizarrely bad House Oversight hearing that was supposed to expose how Twitter, the deep state, and the, um “Biden Crime Family” conspired to suppress the NY Post’s story about Hunter Biden’s laptop. Of course, wishful thinking does not make facts, and we already know that story is totally false. The hearing not only reconfirmed that the GOP’s fantasy scenario never happened, instead it revealed that the Trump White House actually demanded tweets that insulted the President get taken down and that Twitter bent over backwards to give Trump more leeway, even after he broke clear rules. It was something of a disaster hearing for the GOP.
But, one of the craziest bits of the hearing came from new Congressional Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, who worked for Turning Point USA and PragerU before being elected. Her five minutes has garnered some extra attention for being even crazier than either Reps. Lauren Boebert or Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom had pretty crazy rants.
In particular, Rep. Luna (who has been facing some interesting news reporting of late) made some claims about there being a conspiracy between Twitter and the government to communicate via “the private cloud server”… Jira.
Of course, as anyone with even the slightest bit of understanding about, well, anything, would tell you, it’s that Jira is an issue and project tracking software, normally used for things like bug tracking. Luna claimed this was a violation of the 1st Amendment, because she apparently hasn’t the slightest clue how the 1st Amendment actually works.
From the transcript (helpfully provided by Tech Policy Press, though we’ve corrected it based on the video), you can see former Twitter exec Yoel Roth’s confusion over all this. For anyone who understands this, you can recognize Roth’s confusion because he recognizes that she’s completely misconstruing Jira and what it does. But, to Rep. Luna, she seems to think she’s caught Roth out in a giant conspiracy.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Mr. Roth. Mr. Roth, have you communicated with government officials ever on a platform called Jira? Yes or no? Real quick answer, we’re on the clock, yes or no?
Yoel Roth:
Not to the best of my recollection.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Not to your recollection. Great. Have, if you did in the event, communicate who would’ve had access to this platform.
Yoel Roth:
That’s the nature of my confusion. JIRA’s…
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Okay. Did you ever speak to government officials on Jira regarding taking down social media posts?
Yoel Roth:
Again, not to the best of my recollection.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Can you explain to me why the federal government would ever have interest in communicating through Jira? Mind you, a private cloud server with social media companies without oversight to censor American voices? I wanna let you know that this is a violation of the First Amendment and the federal government is colluding with social media companies to censor Americans. Mr. Chairman, I ask for unanimous consent to submit these graphics into record. And Mr. Roth, I’m gonna refresh your memory for you this flow chart.
Rep. James Comer (R-KY):
Without objection so ordered.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Thank you chair. This flow chart shows the following Federal agency’s social media companies, Twitter, leftist, nonprofits, and organizations communicating regarding their version of misinformation using Jira, a private cloud server. On this chart, I wanna annotate that the Department of Homeland Security, which has a following branches, cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, also known as CISA Countering Foreign Intelligence Task Force, now known as the Misinfo, Disinfo and Mal-information, MDM, this was again, used against the American people. The Election Partnership Institute or Election Integrity Partnership, EIP, which includes the following, Stanford Internet Observatory, University of Washington Center for Informed Public, Graphika and Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. And potentially according to what we found on the final report by EIP, the DNC, the Center for Internet Security, CIS- a nonprofit funded by DHS, the National Association of Secretaries of State, also known as NASS and the National Association of State Election Directors, NASED.
And in this case, because there are other social media companies involved, Twitter, what do all of these groups though, have in common? And I’m going to refresh your memory. They were all communicating on a private cloud server known as Jira. Now, the screenshot behind me, which is an example of one of thousands shows on November 3rd, 2020, that you, Mr. Roth, a Twitter employee, were exchanging communications on Jira, a private cloud server with CISA, NASS, NASED, and Alex Stamos, who now works at Stanford and is a former security of security officer at Facebook to remove a posting. Do you now remember communicating on a private cloud server to remove a posting? Yes or no?
Yoel Roth:
I wouldn’t agree with the characteristics.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
I don’t care if you agree. Do you, this is, this is your stuff, yes or no? Did you communicate with a private entity, the government agency on a private cloud server? Yes or no?
Yoel Roth:
The question was, if I…
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Yes or no? Yeah, I’m on time. Yes or no?
Yoel Roth:
Ma’am, I don’t believe I can give you a yes or no.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Well, I’m gonna tell you right now that you did and we have proof of it. This ladies and gentlemen, is joint action between the federal government and a private company to censor and violate the First Amendment. This is also known, and I’m so glad that there’s many attorneys on this panel, joint state actors, it’s highly illegal. You are all engaged in this action, and I want you to know that you will be all held accountable. Ms. Gadde, are you still on CISA’s Cybersecurity Advisory Council? Yes or no?
Vijaya Gadde:
Yes, I am.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL):
Okay. For those who have said that this is a pointless hearing, and I just wanna let you guys all know, we found that Twitter was indeed communicating with the federal government to censor Americans. I’d like to remind you that this was all in place before January 6th. So, to say that these mechanisms weren’t in place, and to make it about January 6th, I wanna let you know that you guys were actually in control of all of the content and clearly have proof of that. Now, if you don’t think that this is important to your constituents and the American people from those saying that this was a pointless hearing, I suggest you find other jobs. Chairman, I yield my time.
If you actually want to watch all this play out, it’s at 5 hours and 31 minutes in this video (the link should take you to that point). You can see how proud Luna is of herself as she thinks she’s proven “joint state action” and found the secret “Jira private cloud server” where social media and government actors colluded to censor people.
The problem, of course, is that none of this is even remotely true. Whether Luna knows it’s not true, has very stupid staffers who told her something false, or if they just don’t care because it sounds good… I don’t know. I do know that Luna has continued to take a victory lap on this nonsense, including claiming on Steve Bannon’s podcast that she caught Roth “lying” under oath to a member of Congress, and she insisted that the panelist’s stunned faces were not because they were realizing just how confused Luna was about all this, but (she said) because they all wanted to immediately text their lawyers about how in trouble they were.
So, let’s debunk all of this nonsense. And, I won’t even bother digging into the fact that at the time of this supposed smoking gun, Trump was in office, and his hand appointed director ran CISA. There’s so much other dumb stuff, I don’t even have time to spend any more time on that.
Now, once again, Jira is a ticketing system, and a widely used one. It is not a “private cloud server” for “communicating.”
All of the details of what’s going on here were totally public already. The Election Integrity Partnership, which was a private project run by the Stanford Internet Observatory, UW Center for an Informed Public, Graphika, and the Digital Forensic Research Lab, have been quite open and public about what they did to try to track and monitor election mis- and dis-information.
They released a big report, called The Long Fuse in 2021 that details how they used Jira to track possible election disinfo vectors. They used it internally, but they were also able to “tag” in different organizations if they thought it was necessary. This is described pretty clearly and publicly in the report on page 18 and 19:
To illustrate the scope of collaboration types discussed above, the following case study documents the value derived from the multistakeholder model that the EIP facilitated. On October 13, 2020, a civil society partner submitted a tip via their submission portal about well-intentioned but misleading information in a Facebook post. The post contained a screenshot (See Figure 1.4).
In their comments, the partner stated, “In some states, a mark is intended to denote a follow-up: this advice does not apply to every locality, and may confuse people. A local board of elections has responded, but the meme is being copy/pasted all over Facebook from various sources.” A Tier 1 analyst investigated the report, answering a set of standardized research questions, archiving the content, and appending their findings to the ticket. The analyst identified that the text content of the message had been copied and pasted verbatim by other users and on other platforms. The Tier 1 analyst routed the ticket to Tier 2, where the advanced analyst tagged the platform partners Facebook and Twitter, so that these teams were aware of the content and could independently evaluate the post against their policies. Recognizing the potential for this narrative to spread to multiple jurisdictions, the manager added in the CIS partner as well to provide visibility on this growing narrative and share the information on spread with their election official partners. The manager then routed the ticket to ongoing monitoring. A Tier 1 analyst tracked the ticket until all platform partners had responded, and then closed the ticket as resolved.
According to two different people I spoke to at the EIP, this Tier 2 setup, where companies got tagged in happened rarely. Instead, these tickets were mostly just used internally for EIP’s own research efforts. But, either way, note the issue. This is not government employees telling social media to take down posts. This is the EIP, basically a bunch of disinformation researchers, conducting research, and escalating issues to companies to be “independently evaluated against their policies.”
Now, as for the “smoking gun” which Luna showed where she claimed she’s proven “state action,” it’s very blurry and impossible to see in the C-SPAN video, and she didn’t tweet it either. Perhaps because it kinda debunks her entire argument.
The screenshot also isn’t anything secret. It was part of EIP’s own presentation explaining how the EIP worked! In this 12 minute video, Stanford’s Alex Stamos explains the whole process, and at 4 minutes and 14 seconds, he shows a specific example, which appears to be the blurry example that Luna claimed was her smoking gun. Except when you look at it, you see it’s actually an item that (1) EIP found and highlighted (not government officials) of actual election disinfo (someone claiming to be a poll worker burning ballots for anyone who voted for Trump). (2) They tagged in Yoel Roth from Twitter, who rather than just take it down, actually pushed back saying “Is there any evidence establishing that this was a hoax.” (3) EIP then reached out to the relevant election board to see if they had any proof that it was a hoax, and (4) them getting back a press release from the Election Board saying it was a hoax.
That is… not the government colluding to censor Americans. Nor is it Yoel Roth communicating with government officials. It’s EIP (not a gov’t org) raising a potential issue that clearly violates Twitter’s policies, but rather than immediately taking it down, Roth wants actual evidence. That then causes EIP to reach out to other orgs who can speak to the government officials and find out if there’s any further evidence.
In other words, nothing shown in the screenshot is Yoel communicating with government officials (only with EIP). Nothing shown is government officials demanding Twitter censor anyone. Instead, it shows private actors flagging some potentially consequential election disinfo. Finally, nothing in it shows that Twitter is quick to censor content based on these requests, rather it shows Yoel’s sole communication in the chain pushing back on what seems to be pretty clear disinfo, but demanding actual evidence that it’s false before he is willing to take action. Also, none of it was secret! EIP literally posted it themselves to brag about how their system worked to share useful information about election disinfo.
Once again, America, I beg you: elect better people.
Filed Under: alex stamos, anna paulina luna, disinformation, election disinformation, elections, hearings, house oversight committee, information sharing, jira, ticketing system, yoel roth
Companies: atlassian, election integrity partnership, stanford, twitter
Comments on “Extraordinarily Confused Congressional Rep. Thinks Social Media Companies Are Secretly Communicating With Gov’t Censors… Via Jira”
now ask her how many instances of jira are being run just within DoD.
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Dumb conspiracy nonsense notwithstanding, the dismissiveness of Luna is painful to read. If this were an actual investigation her rants would be dismissed as mostly argumentative nonsense.
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Re:
I keep laughing that your comments always bring out the 3rd world crackwhores with mental illness.
Normal conversation is not in their repertoire.
This site makes data analysis on 3rd world vocabulary easy. They always say the same thing. A crackwhore infestation is kind of funny 🙂
Re:
Yeah, your team really knows how to pick the best people for the job don’t they?
Re:
“the dismissiveness of Luna is painful to read.”
It’s exactly what you sound like to us bro…
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“If this were an actual investigation my rants would be dismissed as mostly argumentative nonsense.”
Fixed it for ya bro, no charge.
I’m Fucking Crooked, Stupid, and Will Shit On You (R)
Well, at least he isn’t a democrat, I’ll vote for them
Re:
I’m Fucking Crooked, Stupid, and will feel bad about shitting on you (D)
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME YOU MUST VOTE TO SAVE DEMOCRACY
Re: Re:
Then you know you can vote for anyone. Those 2 groups not withstanding. ANYONE.
You dont need to choose 1 of the 2, that Chose Who you can vote for among Their Own group.
You dont have to Choose from 2 OLD people on TV, that are sponsored by rep/dem, with money from the corps, that came from YOU and ME and Havent seen the underside of What People are like. They live in a bubble of Rich people who have no idea of what things are like.
As someone who has to use jira, I would say it’s more likely social media is communicating with government for censorial purposes via blood letting.
IT Guy: You’ve used the internet right?
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL): Well, I think I have I’m not sure.
IT Guy: … and bad guys use the internet right?
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL): Well, yes, but not everyone is ..
IT Guy: I didn’t ask about everyone else, just you.
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL): Wait, but you just asked if bad guys used it?
IT Guy: ahh, so you are a bad guy
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL): I never said that
IT Guy: yeah, but you use the internet and you’re pretty stupid so I’m just gonna say you’re a bad guy…
Rep. Anna Luna (R-FL): But I nev
IT Guy: Too late, I already made up my mind
… And that is someone they thought was intelligent and important enough to put on the panel.
I mean the thing was a blatant farce to score political points with the gullible by feeding their victim complex from the get-go but having someone that bloody clueless spin absolute drivel really drives that point home all the harder.
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It looks like the new buzzword is “You got Zantac’d in the failed social experiment” :p
The mental illness makes them easy to avoid since quality time is still more popular than fiction.
They still haven’t figured out the cause of obesity, but at least they figured out that Zantac causes cancer. Just add root cause of mental illness to the to-doodoo list.
It is obvious that oblivion is popping pills for lifestyle choices that were of their own choosing. A generation of bad advice. Thats all that is. Lab rats on gerbil wheels to nowhere aka oblivion.
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Lol. Look who got left holding the bad advice generation (BAG)!
You got zantac’d. Being prescribed cancer looks like most of the smut on this site.
Trash bad advice generations. Broken english means comedy is still alive and well 🙂
Re:
It’s really great to have a comment thread where both the obesity troll AND the crackwhore troll show up.
We’re SOOO lucky to have you.
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Re: Re:
Tabloid vocabulary is easy to emulate.
Consider it IQ appropiate.
The trick is, it doesn’t matter if what they say is true or not.
The right wing echo chamber will run with it, repeat it, & pretend it has to be true.
The base will keep supporting those same leaders that have managed to make sure all of the lowest rated states in nearly every metric are red, because they “KNOW” that it was all stolen and somehow despite them being able to find evidence on the toilet browsing facebook with their 4th glass of wine no one ever managed to submit it to a court.
The GQP refuses to understand anything about the Constitution they took an oath to uphold screaming how these private companies violated their 1st amendment rights when they banned the 3 toed sloth for the 15th covid lie she posted, but she KNOWS it was because they wanted to interfere in the vote it can’t possibly be that she violated the rules repeatedly.
So tired of these professional victims who can’t manage to string together a coherent thought being cheered on by people who believe that the train derailment was a secret attack on white people.
Members of Congress have the right to say anything they want, however they should be called out for lying and none of this mealy mouth decorum way of doing it…
MTG lied.
It is impossible for Twitter to violate her 1st amendment rights, Twitter is not the government.
We can’t even manage outrage as they keep telling people the shot is more dangerous than the disease… how many more people need to die needlessly until its time to stop both siding these comments and just calling them fscking liars?
Re: Shall we play a game?
I disagree about the GQP refusing to understand. That implies ignorance (a lack of information) or stupidity (an inability to comprehend).
Donald Trump represented an epistemic revolution — perhaps reaction is apropos — for rightwing thought. Paul Krugman had a great line about Trump in a recent NYT column: Trump convinced a mass base of Americans that when they play by the rules they lose.
To understand is to play by the rules. To win, you have to play a completely different game or play the rules themselves.
You sit down and play chess with a maga. You move your first pawn. Your opponent throws down a domino on the chessboard and says “Go fish.”
How do you play a game like that?
Re: Re:
Calvinball is great in a comic strip, but it’s a terrible way to run a country.
Re: Re:
So that’s what they meant when they said Trump was playing 4D chess!
Re: Re: Re:
And Trump was always the pigeon!
Re: Re:
How do you play a game like that?
With brass knuckles?
Re: Re: Re:
You’re not wrong.
This is why a player when faced with odds against them can either play a different game or play the rules (i.e., game the system).
You could know the rules of chess front to back, and if you get the shitheel who does throw a domino and yell “Go fish,” then go the brass knuckles route … you could resort to tendentious argument by looking for loopholes, demanding literal interpretation, or trying to tie the logic of the rules in knots.
You know what they say…
When a machine ain’t broke, it’s not a political stunt to exploit.
have they ever USED Jira?
Jira is barely functional for what it’s designed for.
If a company wants to accept government censorship, that’s the company’s right. It’s their property to do with as they please. Broadcast networks never had free speech. The FCC censored them for decades. How is any of this new?
People need to start understanding that social media is a platform for delivering a product (users) to the paying customer (advertisers). The platform and the advertisers are both profit-motivated corporations and they collaborate on ways to maximize their profit.
They can cooperate with government, maybe government steps in and spoils some of their fun with regulations, but the users are mere products in all this and I hope they understand that they don’t count. If you don’t like that, you have the option to leave social media and never look back. Why permit yourself to be treated like a product?
Re: Both property rights and free speech
“How is any of this new?” is a bad way to put it. Broadcast networks have free speech now (aside from the narrow equal time rule, not to be confused with the scrapped fairness doctrine) because the FCC was wrong to censor them. In contrast, social media networks have had free speech since Reno v. ACLU; the Congress’s mistakes in passing the Communications Decency Act was corrected quickly.
When social media sites accept government moderation suggestions (no coercion and no threats) then that is, as you say, an exercise of property rights, but it’s also an exercise of free speech. Moderation by social media sites is protected by the First Amendment as much as editorializing by news media is. And it wouldn’t make sense for a social media site to disregard a violation of the site’s rules merely because the government was the party who brought the violation to the company’s attention. There is a theoretical risk of unavoidable intimidation if relatively small media networks were to receive good-faith heads ups from the government, but I expect that in practice the government sticks to communicating with large companies out of efficiency.
She’s not confused; she’s Republican.
Re:
She’s Republican because she’s confused
Re:
A 3rd and 4th political party removes most of the dead weight of the 20th century political parties.
What will they whine about now? Not a depublican or remocrat is the best the best fresh air nowadays 🙂
Did she really try to describe Jira as a messaging system?
Even when I TRY to get people’s attention via a ticket they’re watching, it rarely works.
Re:
And when it works, it’s because they play hot potato with the ticket.
Jira is magic
I’ve used Jira while working as a consultant. Most … umm, what’s the demonym for the Techdirt community — oh what the hey I’ll use this in a pinch … Techdirtbags 🙂 are familiar with it and we don’t need to go over the basics of it.
Most of all, Rep. Luna and her fellow congressmembers should know what Jira is even if they literally have never used it. For starters, they have staffers and whole government departments to debrief them on [checks notes] what a work ticket is. Which is to say, congressmembers issue work tickets all the time to follow up on constituent services.
Luna was engaging in stagecraft. This was all a performance for the benefit of the Meme Industrial Complex (read: rightwing media). Their audiences are by and large incurious and treat any new information as magic, so they are also spooked easily. They’ve never heard of Jira or understand how an electronic work ticketing system functions.
So, they draw a mental map of this new information with the prior information they have, particularly subconsciously (i.e., interpreted through the senses or emotions). Jira is new information, and new experiences trigger a fear response. They still can’t make sense of it, but they ascribe motives to it to feed a preconceived narrative of being silenced. Jira is evidence of conspiracy.
And Luna’s “CoNnEcT tHe DoTs Sh33Ple!!1” flowchart only helps to reinforce the conspiracy fantasy by introducing more “magical” abbreviations and institutions to further mystify and scare her audience.
Re:
Jimmy Johnson said that about some product in a commercial once.
Re: Expanse
“what’s the demonym for the Techdirt community?”
It’s “Beltalowda.”
Re: Re:
Does that make Masnick our “bosmang”?
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What matters is that it is outside of federal records law. It was arguably a crime for these two CISA accounts to be engaging in official state action on Jira outside of federal records oversight.
If a private citizen filed an FOIA with CISA for all communications with Yeol Roth and this Alex Stamos fuck the CISA records office wouldn’t return these communication because they are outside of CISA but they are still a public record which is what makes doing this through Jira an illegal act.
OMG .. Jira is soooo Woke!!!
Now cover AirBNB and Lauren Southern’s parents.
We’re going to have to make political affiliation a protected class in this country.
No one is censored on the internet, though many are denied access to private platforms they wish they could commandeer.
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No, we won’t.
Re: Re:
Given the last line I’m almost positive that that’s a poe as that seems way too self-aware and honest for the real deal.
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Re: Re:
Yes, we will. Survival resources are being denied to people because of their politics.
It’s already a protected class in the civil service.
Re: Re: Re:
[Citation Needed].
Re: Re: Re:2
Plenty of Democrat-voting areas in Republican-controlled states seem to be starved of public funding. Although that may also be because they’re not white.
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Re: Re: Re:
Tough. All of you ciswhite assholes can fuck right back off to the 1950s. Each and every one of you should have been collectively strangled 70 years ago before you could pollute the gene pool with your straight trash.
Re: Re: Re:2 Aww, sweet
I love it when the bigots pretend to be lefties but have no fucking idea what a left wing belief is.
“they seem to like black people so they must hate white people”
Because to you that’s literally the only way it could work, right? You have to pick a side.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Notice the vaporcare they are involved with. At least they don’t think cha ching is an asian slur.
Quality time has a different story. Its a culture thing.
Re: Re: Re:3
You don’t have to hate white people to help black people… but it helps. It’s simply a matter of fact that if more women marry men there are less women to marry women.
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Re: Re:
Mike back to sucking Gadde’s strapon. You love sucking your mistresses cock you little pathetic slut. Going to be sucking real ones soon as BigTech aint throwing around the kind of moony to “non-profits” like the COPI institute like they used to you fucking pathetic grifter. All your Silicone Valley “friends” agree that you are a bid of a dipshit. Sure you were worth the money when the barrowing rate was damn near zero but now your return isn’t worth the cost. You are done.
Onto your bullshit.
“Now, once again, Jira is a ticketing system, and a widely used one. It is not a “private cloud server” for “communicating.””
Jira can operate as a data center or a cloud, on its backend. Again you are an MBA stop pretending you understand tech. Its the clients choice how they want Jira to operate. I think the issue here is the use of Jira which is outside of public records law. In the text you showed there at lease 2 government CISA accounts. The use of Jira is a violation of 44 U.S.C. Chapter 31 “Records Management by Federal Agencies”. These CISA accounts should not have been communicating through Jira as they are acting in their official capacity making that communication a public record.
Second, the use Jira for this propose is evidence of consciousness of guilt. Everyone involved knew it was illegal so they used Jira to hide the evidence.
“This is not government employees telling social media to take down posts.”
There are two government accounts involved in this communication. Conspiracy against rights doesn’t matter how many private vs. state actors there are. When those private individual conspire with state actors that makes them state actors. You zero in on Alex Stamos and ignore the two state actor accounts involved.
One state actor is too many here 2 of the 4 are state actors. This is illegal state action. It’s an illegal conspiracy against rights which is a violation of law. Its also a violation of due process as any system that involved state actors but bypasses the courts is as due process violation.
To take down speech like that the state would need clear evidence of probable clause that the speech amounts to a crime threats of violence etc. and a reasonable expectation that a judicial process will follow.
And all of this would be need to be done through a system open to public records requests, not Jira.
Re: Re: Re:
Sounds to me like Mike just built a huge addition to the huge fucking castle where he lives rent free inside your head!
Chozen, repeat after me….
A public house is not public housing.
Twitter is not a public accommodation.
Twitter can refuse service, even to a minority, due to their behavior.
You do not have a constitutional right to use Twitter, nor any other service provided by private businesses.
DirecTV will not be forced to carry OAN nor Newsmax because of “must carry” laws and viewpoint discrimination.
I, Chozen, am a complete fucking idiot and I have a raging hate-boner for Mike as that is the only way I can get it up anymore is to come here and shitpost while acting like a fucking asshole.
….
There, was it really all that difficult for you to admit all of that?
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Re: Re: Re:2
“Sounds to me like Mike just built a huge addition to the huge fucking castle where he lives rent free inside your head!”
Actually it was pretty easy to peg mike down lol. He is just classics narcissist. And a typical talking head expert who like all of them comes complete with his own “non-profit” that is his personal tax shelter. He is a pretty stereotypical grifter scumbag.
Re: Re: Re:3
You’re still a fucking idiot that doesn’t know the difference between a public house and public housing.
Re: Re: Re:
Cool story. Doesn’t refute the point.
Re: Re: Re:
I have to admit it’s impressive how wrong you seem to be about everything. And you’re even more confidently wrong than Matthew Bennett, which takes real work!
Re: Re: Re:
That it can doesn’t change how it was used in this case.
No, it isn’t. This was run by a private organization, and most of the communication was between private organizations. Also, you’re essentially saying that the fact that they broke the law is evidence that they knew they were breaking the law. That doesn’t follow.
… and the executives of Atlassian shrugged.
Re:
… and the executives of Atlassian shrugged.
Wow. Neat trick. Not ever seen them that active, ever.
Re: Re:
Someone must have filed a ticket in Jira.
Next up ... Microsoft Project?
Next up: The government suppresses Republican Tweeter twits, Faceplant pamphlets and libertrarian slants the news trees medial via Microsoft Teams! Damn the Commune est Lift.
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Re:
The US of MS teams is fine as long as government officials recognize that everything that goes on is a public record. MS Teams is very responsive to records requests.
“The difficulty arises when it comes to storing and searching for responsive records. From a public records officer’s perspective, it helps to have most internal communications located on one platform. If folks are communicating via MS Teams instead of texting via cell phone, it makes it a lot easier to search for responsive documents. But usually, you have to use other backup and search tools to effectively search those records. And although the archiving software backs up the records, it does not necessarily organize them. The public records officer may still need to go to the organization’s officers and employees to have them identify whether MS Teams files or chat records are responsive to a specific request.”
The issue here is the use of Jira project management software is that it is completely separate from public records request and was most likely illegal the CISA accounts were acting in their official capacity outside of federal records laws.
Re: Re:
Public records request don’t apply to private companies, do they? It’s the government’s responsibility to keep its own records. If the government isn’t doing that then 1. FOIA applies and the government isn’t obeying or 2. FOIA doesn’t apply and the government doesn’t have an obligation to produce records until Congress updates the law.
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Re: Re: Re:
“Public records request don’t apply to private companies”
They apply to CISA. Two of these accounts are CISA accounts. The statute that would apply to Mr. Roth would be conspiracy against rights. The fact that this was done on Jira is just evidence of Mr. Roth’s consciousness of guilt.
Re: Re: Re:2
I’ll have some thousand island dressing with that word salad please.
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Re: Re:
New domestic infrastructure actually negates many of the data issues that cannot be enforced on a global network.
When personal data is not held outside of borders, we will see much of the progress made in the 1st world stabalize, since there is no foreign influence involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States
The world changed for the better with new networks that adhere to common standards. Cloud is effectively obsolete and insecure at the present time. That changes overnight with new digital infrastructure.
Slanted language indicates bias.
Re: A font of good information
That’s why whenever I signal my biases, I always use italics.
Actually, I don’t. That was a boldface lie.
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“Slanted language, in regard to logical fallacies, refers to language that slants or skews the language of an argument to favor one side over the other, often with no justification. Slanted language is often used in rhetoric that is emotionally charged or inherently political.”
Looks to me like the result of a fishing expedition, where someone used dynamite and decided that the bicycle that floated to the surface afterwards was a fish.
JIRA does have a cloud version available, and it is used for communication. I’m going to guess that someone saw that all these different entities were using JIRA and decided they must be using it to communicate with each other like. secret version of Telegram they’d never seen before, rather than their own set of internal tickets that would never be seen by the other party.
Of course, this sort of idiocy is easily proven or disproven – the very nature of JIRA is organisation and archiving of issues, so show where the different entities here were using it to communicate. Show some tickets or boards or emails or whatever.
My guess is there’s zero evidence even suggesting that they used it to collaborate, and morons made up a fantasy out of whole cloth because they saw a name they didn’t recognise in multiple places. If only these people would spend as much time researching facts as they do inventing fantasies about what they don’t understand.
Re:
Oh, and something worth adding – running JIRA on the cloud doesn’t imply that it’s “private” in both senses of the word. It means that you’re running it on Atlassian’s servers instead of your own, but it would be down to you as an administrator whether to restrict access to your own organisation, give others access externally or to make the tickets completely public. So, even the “private” part of the attempted fantasy gotcha moment there doesn’t hold water without further investigation.
Re: Re: The Context
The context, in MAGAspeak, is that, since the time of Hillary, “Private Server” = malfeasance.
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Re:
“Of course, this sort of idiocy is easily proven or disproven – the very nature of JIRA is organisation and archiving of issues, so show where the different entities here were using it to communicate. Show some tickets or boards or emails or whatever.”
If someone files an FOIA request with the CISA for all records and communications of CISA official with Yoel Roth and Alex Stamos would the CISA’s records official been able to find any record of these communications yes or no?
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Masnick and his lies by omission again
THESE WERE PRIVATE ORGANIZATIONS WITH NO TIES TO GOVERNMENT
University of Washington — Government
Atlantic Council – Member of NATO
Stanford Internet Observatory – Paid for by US NSF grants.
Mike, how much do they pay you to shill
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Re:
“Mike, how much do they pay you to shill”
Not as much as they used to. His mistress getting fired from Twitter really cut into his income.
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Re: Re: Excuse Me
Ahem excuse me “charitable donations” to the COPIA institute lol.
Re: Re:
Good thing he lives rent-free in your head, then.
Re: Re
You’re wrong on how this all works. None of these entities are part of the US Federal Government.
University of Washington – part of the State of Washington, not the Federal Government.
Atlantic Council – member of the Atlantic Treaty Association (ATA), which is completely distinct from NATO
Stanford Internet Observatory – part of Stanford University, a private university
Just because someone receives NSF grants (or government grants of any sort) does not make them part of the Federal Government.
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Re: Re:
“University of Washington – part of the State of Washington, not the Federal Government.”
Through the 14th Amendments all states have to comply with the Bill of Rights just like the federal government you ignorant Douche.
Re: Re: Re: Still not how it works
Yes, some of the Bill of Rights has been selectively incorporated to apply to the states, including the 1st Amendment. A part of federal or state government bringing something to the attention of a social media company for them to evaluate if it violates their policies is not a violation of the 1st Amendment, regardless of whether it’s a researcher at UW or Donald J. Trump. That is, as long as it was the company decided themselves and wasn’t compelled by the government.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-1/state-action-doctrine-and-free-speech is a great overview of the State Action Doctrine (which doesn’t apply here).
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Re: Re: Re:2
“https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-1/state-action-doctrine-and-free-speech is a great overview of the State Action Doctrine (which doesn’t apply here).”
Nothing there that really supports your view.
” The Supreme Court has stated that “a private entity can qualify as a state actor in a few limited circumstances,” such as “[1] when the private entity performs a traditional, exclusive public function; [2] when the government compels the private entity to take a particular action; or [3] when the government acts jointly with the private entity.” 3″
Twitter’s working with the CISA, FBI etc clearly qualifies under #2 and #3. But your source largely focuses on #1. There is actually little caselaw dealing with #2 and #3 because post civil rights there hasn’t been such public/private conspiracy against rights as we are seeing today.
Re: Re: Re:3
Not #2. Suggestions which sites are free to ignore are not compulsion. No coercion and no threats means no compulsion. (There were some instances of wannabe-censorship-but-not-quite-censorship from the Trump White House.)
Going by the First Amendment’s protection of editorial discretion, #3 doesn’t apply either if the social media site would’ve wanted to take down the content had the site found out about the content from someone other than the government. As I wrote in a different comment:
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Re: Re: Re:4
“Not #2. Suggestions which sites are free to ignore are not compulsion. No coercion and no threats means no compulsion. (There were some instances of wannabe-censorship-but-not-quite-censorship from the Trump White House.)”
Mike’s buddies at netchoice were telling Twitter that according to Congress there would be a bloodbath if Twitter didn’t work with the FBI and other agencies. That is very coercsive.
You also mis-define coercion. The court in Sullivan 1963 found that the operating under the color of law is coercive in its very nature.
Coercion is the thigh bar you assholes pretend it is.
Re: Re: Re:5
Why do you have pull shit out your ass the whole time? Are you a pathological liar? Didn’t read the previous Tweets from Matt and ignored the context?
The whole exchange is in response to Twitter’s and FB’s handling of the Biden laptop story and how a bunch of senators where angry about it and the upcoming hearing would be a bloodbath because of that handling, not that Twitter and FB should work with the FBI or any other agency.
It’s almost like you think people can’t read.
Re: Re: Re:6
Yes, Chozen is a pathological liar.
He has not proven himself to be Latino, bisexual, an engineer of any sort, a business owner, or anything he asserts himself to be.
Yet he claims to know certain things better than most people, despite showing he has zero or less understanding of the topics he claims to know about. Or topics he SHOULD have a passing familiarity with.
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Re: Re: Re:2
” A part of federal or state government bringing something to the attention of a social media company for them to evaluate if it violates their policies is not a violation of the 1st Amendment, ”
When done under color of law it is coercive. But we know according to Mike they were using portals only available to law enforcement but they were not operating under color of law.
This makes sense to Mike and Mike’s Misfits because they are idiots.
Re: Re: Re:3
There’s no “under color of law” here. The “portals” you refer to are voluntary. Twitter chose to separate government requests for the sake of convenience. Mike already has said plenty about this:
And if you insist that I’m wrong, then you have to admit that, under your poor definition of censorship, Republican officials have been censoring Twitter for years.
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Re: Re: Re:4
” But, from people I’ve spoken to”
Mike’s opinion from hearsay. Fuck that lying grifter son of a bitch. That worthless MBA’s opinion isn’t worth shit.
Re: Re: Re:5
Your law opinions are worth less than shit. I’ve never seen a douchetard so cocksure of himself, despite being so wrong all the time.
Do better, idiot.
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Re: Re: Re:6
I dont run a site called TechLawDirt you douchebag. Mike represents himself as an expert when he is not.
Re: Re: Re:7
What makes your comment so idiotic is that you often offer up faulty interpretations of laws and cases where you even call lawyers and judges stupid because you think you know better than actual experts.
Are you an expert? No? Then take your own advice and shut the fuck up.
Re: Re: Compartmentalization
What’s going on here — treating government as a single indivisible idea — is mental compartmentalization.
The mind fails to draw distinctions and leads them to commit fallacies of composition and division at the same time.
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Re: Re: Re: Conspiracy
What we have here is why we have specific statues against conspiracy. Each actor will attempt to blame the other actor. FBI is telling Twitter what to take down. Congress is telling twitter that there will be a “bloodbath” if Twitter doesn’t do what the FBI and other agencies tell it.
FBI says we didn’t tell twitter that they had to take it down or else. It was congress who told Twitter to do what the FBI said or else. But then congress says we didn’t tell Twitter to take down anything. It was the FBI that told them to take it down. With each party to the crime adding an element to the crime they each avoid individual responsibility.
This is why we have criminal conspiracy laws. Once its a conspiracy it doesn’t matter what each actor did. All that matters is what the conspiracy did as a whole.
Re:
my butt is the government
This is a riot!
I’m gonna choke on my food and die laughing one of these days because I open on the wrong day an article about a government official cum conspiracy theorist who stubbornly insists on repeatedly referring to an issue tracker as a mere private cloud server.
I think somebody has spent too much time with her head in the clouds
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Re: FOIA
So if someone FIOAed all CISA communications with Yoel Roth and this Alex scumbag the records office would have these communications?
You can’t see why government and private entities working through back channels outside of federal records laws is a problem?
There were two CISA accounts in this thread. That makes it a public record.
Re: Rectal-linear thinking
Clouds of gastrointestinal methane. 😀
There’s linear thinking, where a starting idea leads to a chain of consequences to its conclusion.
Sometimes, the conclusion is found somewhere up their own ass, where an entirely new idea chain begins.
That’s rectal-linear thinking.
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Color of Law
This entire travesty with the CISA is why Color of Law is so important in American and English law. The CISA is operating under the color of law, ” Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency Act of 2018″, but its claim that the act gives the agency to police “misinformation” is completely dubious.
It comes from one batshit crazy bureaucrats claim that “the most critical infrastructure is our cognitive infrastructure”
There is nothing in the act that gives the CISA this power. They took it under an insane interpretation of what is infrasture.
There is no way in hell the CISA’s claims of authority over misinformation will survive a SCOTUS review because the act doesn’t say a god damn thing about misinformation.
But the CISA acted under color of law and people followed. That is the danger when agencies act under color of law.
Re:
Chozen,
What you think is law has been proven time and time again to be incorrect. (DirecTV, public accommodations, etc)
So what makes you think any one of us will give two fucks about what you have to say?
Re: Re:
Chozen is basically John Smith without the mailing list and copyright worship, but in exchange you get misogyny, a willingness to murder and rape, and having femboys as a master race.
Re: Re:
Ah but don’t you see, so long as they never admit to being wrong that means they never have been!
(I semi-joke but that actually seems to be the mindset of the current batch of trolls infesting the site, never admit to being wrong no matter what and act as though accusations and claims are interchangeable with evidence and citations, at least when it comes to them and theirs. I’d call it Trumpian but it seems to be the method of far more than just him so ‘how republican’ or ‘how US conservative’ perhaps?)
What isn’t mentioned in the story is that George Soro’s is funding the development of JIRA and at the same time was in BETA testing status. Meaning security was questionable at best. That test me Soro’s was watching real-time like others on the JIRA session and could inject his influence as needed.