Oklahoma Cops Debut Tool That Allows Them To Drain Pre-Paid Cards During Traffic Stops

from the Square,-but-for-fucking-citizens dept

A couple of years ago — as the ugliness of asset forfeiture abuse was becoming a mainstream media topic — the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s senior Washington correspondent published a cautionary article featuring a very blunt headline:

American shakedown: Police won’t charge you, but they’ll grab your money

In it, the CBC’s Neil MacDonald pointed out that being “not from around here,” coupled with rental vehicles and cash — made visiting Canadians little more than rolling ATMs for “drug interdiction task forces” sporting nifty acronyms and friendly asset-sharing partnerships with federal agencies.

MacDonald listed a few tactics that might lower Canadians’ chances of being robbed at badgepoint:

Avoid long chats if you’re pulled over. Answer questions politely and concisely, then persistently ask if you are free to go.

Don’t leave litter on the vehicle floor, especially energy drink cans.

Don’t use air or breath fresheners; they could be interpreted as an attempt to mask the smell of drugs.

Don’t be too talkative. Don’t be too quiet. Try not to wear expensive designer clothes. Don’t have tinted windows.

And for heaven’s sake, don’t consent to a search if you are carrying a big roll of legitimate cash.

Cash = guilt to many law enforcement agencies, even if they’re only interested in pursuing cash, rather than criminal charges.

WHERE’S YOUR MOSES NOW?

[T]he Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.

It’s called an ERAD, or Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machine, and state police began using 16 of them last month.

Here’s how it works. If a trooper suspects you may have money tied to some type of crime, the highway patrol can scan any cards you have and seize the money.

Well… fuck.

So much for keeping the thieving, non-prosecuting cops off your back by carrying prepaid cards rather than cash. Highway-patrolling drug warriors are now going to be pressing the narrative that drug dealers and other criminals now use cards, because asset forfeiture has severely disrupted the cash-based drug economy or something.

There’s literally no way to win. Any amount of money is considered inherently suspicious when it’s in cash form. Now any amount of money — no matter where it’s stored — can be declared the fruits of criminal activity by a cop with an ERAD device. Law enforcement can now drain any prepaid cards in your possession all without you having to leave the driver’s seat.

And they have every incentive to do so. ERAD sells these devices to cops for $5,000 and takes 7.7% of the haul. (Here’s Oklahoma’s contract [PDF] with ERAD for the devices.) These devices aren’t going to pay for themselves. Nope, citizens will pay for them — twice. First, during the initial outlay and a second time when their cards are drained by law enforcement officers.

But it’s totally cool because there’s an almost non-existent chance you’ll be able to recover improperly-seized funds at some undetermined point in the future.

“If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we’ve done that in the past,” [Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John] Vincent said about any money seized.

Sure, that sounds like due process, but it really isn’t. Law enforcement agencies have at least 30 days before they have to officially notify those whose money they’ve seized. From that point, seized assets head into a labyrinthine adjudication process in which the government does everything it can to keep the owners of forfeited cash from participating, starting with in rem proceedings that pit the state versus seized money, rather than against the person from which the funds were seized.

To navigate this, you need a lawyer, preferably one with experience in recovering forfeited property. That isn’t cheap. During the long, expensive process, agencies will often try to push people into accepting low-dollar settlements that allow the government to keep money it hasn’t proven is tied to criminal activity.

In many cases, the dollar amount is low enough that the expense of recovering it makes it a losing proposition. But those lower dollar amounts can also be the difference between solvency and bankruptcy for someone who’s had their money seized. With this technology, officers will literally be stealing people’s paychecks, as those who aren’t able to secure a checking account are now almost exclusively receiving their paychecks on reloadable prepaid cards.

And, in almost every state, including Oklahoma, there’s no conviction stipulation tied to asset forfeiture, meaning the government only has to stake a claim based on dubious “evidence” — like the driver was traveling on a major interstate, had one too many air fresheners in the car, an officer thought he smelled marijuana, etc. — to hold onto money it can’t prove is tied to criminal activity.

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Comments on “Oklahoma Cops Debut Tool That Allows Them To Drain Pre-Paid Cards During Traffic Stops”

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132 Comments
Ehud Gavron (profile) says:

Prepaid debit cards only? Coerce PIN for others?

Comments on Scott Greenfield’s blog about this topic suggest that the ERAD device will definitely take all your prepaid debit money. They say that bank-cards with PINs will require you “giving” law enforcement your PIN for them to drain the account. They also say that the credit transaction will be disputed and reversed.

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2016/06/09/erad-because-its-not-just-about-the-cash/

I know we’re hearing the tip of the iceberg here (sorry to mix metaphors) but thanks for the head’s up. The more this odious abuse of due process is given the light of day the less this practice will be treated as lawful… or allowed. (Note I didn’t say “tolerated”).

Ehud Gavron
Tucson AZ

McFortner (profile) says:

Re: Re: Prepaid debit cards only? Coerce PIN for others?

Actually, they can do it without your pin. There is a 3 digit number on the back of your card called the card security code that can be used to make online purchases. All they need is that number and they are good to go without you giving up your pin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_security_code

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Prepaid debit cards only? Coerce PIN for others?

Thankfully, Canadian bank cards require chip and pin, and won’t debit money just with the mag strip and CVV. Credit cards, of course, can be easily disputed which would result in the precinct having its merchant account revoked in short order.

It boggles my mind that there are currently stored value cards out there that don’t require chip and pin to drain money from the card. This problem was solved by 1998.

Roger Strong (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Prepaid debit cards only? Coerce PIN for others?

Canadian cards will still make a purchase with just the mag strip and CVV. Occasionally a reader will have trouble with my chip (I should probably switch to the new card I got in the mail this week) and tell me to use the mag stripe.

Since the ERAD badgepoint theft device likely doesn’t spit out money but instead just transfers it to another account, it’ll probably fall under the purchase rather than withdrawal rules.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Prepaid debit cards only? Coerce PIN for others?

“A bank card does, and so the cops can’t take anything unless you foolishly give them your PIN.”

A take it you use the word “foolishly” because there are no such adverbs as “under-threat-of-life-plus-cancer-ishly” or “semi-consciously-wheezing-through-broken-teeth-ishly”.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Prepaid debit cards only? Coerce PIN for others?

The comments may have said that, but the articles linked by Greenfield specify

Although the device does not allow funds from non-prepaid cards to be frozen or seized, it can provide the officer information about those cards such as the card number, the name on the card, expiration date and the card issuer.

Which only means that they know exactly which accounts to sieze from the Oklahoma visitor, rather than having to ask around.

The part from the article that struck me as hilarious was

The device logs which trooper is using the device when a card is swiped.

… as if records in police custody are never “accidentally destroyed”, “aged out” due to a convenient policy, or lost “due to technical faults”.

I.T. Guy says:

Used to be you could teach children to trust police officers. Not any more. They see you as an enemy, they are the enemy. Besides, if you teach them to trust police then when they become of an age where they start to think for themselves they will realize you lied to them. I realized I was lied to about cops when Upper Darby cops threw us in a paddy wagon and drove us wildly to Cobbs Creek PKWY & Webster and made us get out. For those of you that dont know the area, that part of town is not exactly friendly to 15 year old long haired white boys. That was 31 years ago. I wish we had cell phones back then.

Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

From the department of: 'What is mine is mine and what is yours is mine, get over it.'

So, what is the difference between money one earns and money that is proceeds of a crime? In the eyes of law enforcement, apparently, if you have money left over after paying your taxes, that’s a crime.

Now when are they going to consider the economy?

David says:

Re: Re:

That will make you think twice before using your foodstamps and tax refund cards to buy illicit drugs.

Remember: that money is being confiscated not because its source is illegal but because it was planning to commit a criminal transaction.

You can be lucky that they don’t charge a wad of twenties for forming a conspirative terrorist group, all in the same pocket.

I.T. Guy says:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140915/09500928521/canadian-news-outlet-warns-canadians-that-us-law-enforcement-officers-will-pull-them-over-seize-their-cash.shtml

Michael, Sep 17th, 2014 @ 6:43am

Re: Re: Travelers Checks
That’s right. Plus, we haven’t seen any US law enforcement officers forcing people to withdraw money from the ATM yet.

[T]he Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.

So money in the bank is illegal now too?

Anon E. Mous (profile) says:

The more stories of asset forfeiture come to the forefront, the more horrified I am at the abuse of power that is taking place all across the country.

There is no you are innocent until you are proven guilty with the forfeiture of your funds.

Many folks carry cash when travelling on the road of if they are going to make a purchase outright or a down payment ( which a lot of people still do when going to buy goods such as vehicles, recreational vehicles, Furniture, Electronics etc) because some times the seller doesn’t want a cheque or a bank draft due to fraudsters making those various forgeries and some times you can get a better deal with cash.

It was bad enough that anyone who had cash and got stopped and said they had cash was suspected of drug dealing or money laundering or whatever else the cop that pulled you over thought was appropriate to liberate you money now they can do it and take your funds because you have a prepaid debit or credit card??? Like WTF

This is more than an abuse of police power but this is an abuse of due process and of a persons constitutional rights. Just because I carry cash or a pre paid card does not mean I am doing it for nefarious purposes.

I have had upwards of 35k in cash on me and it wasnt for illegal purposes but it is because I got to a lot of vehicle and equipment auctions and buy vehicles, tools, equipment that I will then sell for a profit (hopefully).

I carry that kind of cash because I know if I am buying cars trucks SUV or what not that at an auction and depending how many I buy and for what price that I can pay the price for the vehicle, the auctioneers fee and the taxes and then take it home that very day or get it paid for and come pick it up later and thus dont have to worry about any storage fees charged by the auction facility.

So because I have that kind of cash does it mean I am a criminal or doing something nefarious, no it doesnt, but somehow I doubt the cops would care even if I had proof.

The more I hear about asset forfeiture of peoples cash the more I liken it to copyright trolling and patent trolling who look for victims and then shake them down for settlements, to me this has ring to it like asset forfeiture in that some people are not going to fight it and those who do get offered a percentage of their money back and the cops etc keep the rest.

I find it even more astonishing that this company that makes this device is taking 7.7% of what the cops seize and that state and federal agencies think this is all A-OK that people are being robbed by roadside bandits disguised as law enforcement… oh wait IT IS law enforcement!

It is shady shit like this that just heaps more distrust of law enforcement and government who are supposed to be looking out for it’s citizens, not running roughshod over their rights and stealing from them.

When I was young we were always taught that the police officer is your friend and they are their to help you, but these days it seems while that it is getting to be more and more of dont trust the police officer and what you do and say for fear of where it may lead you in your interactions with them.

Whatevah says:

Re: Re:

I have had upwards of 35k in cash on me and it wasnt for illegal purposes but it is because I got to a lot of vehicle and equipment auctions and buy vehicles, tools, equipment that I will then sell for a profit (hopefully).

Yeah, and then you’ll go out and buy drugs with the profits. See, they know how that works.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

We can only hope that enough citizens start fighting back against criminals wearing badges.

That fighting back can be political or it can be physical, if the politicians refuse to stop this illegal behaviour by the supposed “law enforcement”.

If someone demands my money at the point of a gun I will shoot to defend myself not hand over my money to highway thieves.

Probably going to die, but I will die defending my rights.

David says:

Re: Re:

This is more than an abuse of police power but this is an abuse of due process and of a persons constitutional rights. Just because I carry cash or a pre paid card does not mean I am doing it for nefarious purposes.

They aren’t arresting and charging you. They are arresting and charging the cash. Who knows what nefarious purposes that cash or pre paid card might have had? Be glad that the police rescued you from it before it could put its sinister designs into effect.

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Re: The raid on Kim Dotcom's home.

And conducted with the oversight of Hollywood guys. For some fancy reason MPAA and studio officials were there to witness the raid.

As Dotcom pointed out later, his workplace is public. His commutes are routine. There are plenty of ways they could have arrested him without busting down his door.

Someone wanted the action and drama.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Oh that works assuming you can avoid the state in your travels without travelling literally hundreds of miles out of your way… until the practice starts spreading to all the other states, as you can be sure that every other police group in the country is absolutely drooling over the idea of being able to steal money even from those that tried to avoid theft by using a card.

David says:

Re: Re: Re: Growth industry of the 21st century!

They can even charge you with resisting arrest if you don’t put up resistance to being arrested because of resisting arrest.

Too lazy to dig up the reference, but they did that to a lawyer in a courthouse who had the audacity to advise her client that he/she did not need to answer any of the “casual questions” the police wanted to ask.

So they arrested her for resisting arrest, without resistance and booked her for a few hours or over night (don’t remember which).

The judge wasn’t overly impressed, but the principal goal, namely retaliation in the form of harrassment, still had been accomplished.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: The Bad Good Old Days

a group of men had a dream where all men were created and treated as equals( not withstanding the obvious problems with that). The current ones in charge seem very envious of how North korea, stalinist russia or nazi germany ran things to the point where they are forcing the once “land of the free home of the brave” into another police state tyranny.

where those at the top have all the wealth, power and control. Everyone else is treated as slaves to be exploited.

vastrightwing (profile) says:

how can I try out my new toy?

Sure, these won’t be abused. We are LEOs. You can trust us. Except these LEOs have cool new toys and boy do they want to try them out!

I have zero doubt, combining high tech weapons with no accountability and a reason to use them, they will be used as often as possible. I expect one is in use right now while I write this.

In fact, they better scale up seizures before the serfs catch on and the law catches up. But then I’m cynical.

Anonymous Coward says:

ERAD would do well to market this card reader in Latin America, where the cops have historically encouraged people (especially tourists) to pay their traffic fines in cash on the spot.

Although Latin American cops have earned a rather notorious reputation for bribery, the “fines” are usually small (and often negotiable) and the payments basically “voluntary” — unlike the US cops who force strongarm searches and take everything of value they find.

DogBreath says:

We're from the Government. We're here to help you.

The most scary two sentences in any language.

To think it all started at the U.S. Borders (A.K.A “Constitution Free Zone”)

Scanning Prepaid Cards At The Border Won’t Stop Money Laundering – October 18, 2012

and

Department Of Homeland Security To Scan Payment Cards At Borders And Airports – Nov 07, 2012

As far as them being able to drain your bank accounts through your ATM cards, if they’re not doing it now it only means they’re not doing it YET, but I’m sure they will be working on getting that implemented too.

John85851 (profile) says:

What does ERAD think about this?

Does ERAD care about how clients use their technology?
Do they care that LEO’s are seizing money without due process? It’s one thing to seize someone’s money after they’ve been accused and arrested for a crime, but it’s a completely different matter when the police take the money simply because it’s there.

And it’s yet another thing when ERAD takes a percentage of every seizure. So again, so they know the money is coming from innocent people?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: What does ERAD think about this?

I hope they are saving every cent coming to them from this tech since they will be drawn into the RICO investigations once the people being robbed start to fight back. Taking things without conviction is theft. Making tools marketed to facilitating theft is a crime as well. Enjoy the free (negative) advertising once every paper in the country starts reporting on the court case.

Anonymous Coward says:

i’m sure they are working out the details now on how to max your cards, drain your accounts, and otherwise saddle you with debt if they catch you driving with a tail light out or one that’s likely to go out some day.

now that’s if you have a not excellent citizenship score. that score is why all the snooping is going on.

David says:

They are right!

During the long, expensive process, agencies will often try to push people into accepting low-dollar settlements that allow the government to keep money it hasn’t proven is tied to criminal activity.

In my view, that’s the point of time where the money definitely becomes tied to criminal activitity.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

passinglurker says:

I doubt this is stop at prepaid debit gift cards So how long until we see a slew of new self destructing money cards? destroying your card before it can be read is about the only thing I can see being done at this point short of coming up with a fake card that can somehow brick an ERAD and get you in a lot of trouble.

David says:

Re: Can credit cards be maxed out in this fashion?

If you cannot speak intelligibly, how could you have earned your money legally?

If you can speak intelligibly without college education in the U.S., how could you have educated yourself legally in the U.S.?

If you have a college education, how could you not be drowning in student debts?

Clearly there is something fishy going on if you have money.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: "No you're not under arrest or being detained. No you're not free to leave."

I imagine at that point they’d ‘wait for backup’ or ‘just need to check a few things’ until the person was basically forced to hand over the password just so they could leave. The kind of person who uses a device like this and robs people of money anytime they can get their hands on it is not likely the kind of person who would be willing to accept a “No” in any form.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Not even trying to pretend anymore

If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we’ve done that in the past,” [Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John] Vincent said about any money seized.

Translation: “If you can prove your innocence after we declare you guilty on the spot and take your criminal money we might give you some of your money back.”

The Oklahoma cops at least have reached the point where they’re not even bothering to pretend that ‘Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law’ applies, they are the law, and if they say someone or something is guilty then it is, and it’s up to the accused to prove their innocence after they’ve already been punished.

dakre (profile) says:

The only good thing I’ve seen is a bill (not sure if it’s been passed) that states that attorney fees can be awarded in asset forfeiture cases. So if you have to get an attorney to fight it, you’re more likely to get one without paying upfront, and it will be more likely you will get your money back because of that.

Sad thing is, this probably targets anyone who doesn’t live in Oklahoma, and targets anyone who doesn’t look like a white, well off or rich, person.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re:

If the text is that attorney’s fees can be awarded then it’s of extremely limited use, as that will require that the judge find the initial theft unreasonable to a large enough extent that the one filing to get their stolen money back deserve to be compensated, at the cost of the police. I don’t think I need to say how high a bar that would be to meet, and it’s not one that’s likely to be met very often, if ever, given how many judges display a heavy bias in always assuming that the police are right in anything they do.

Change it to must and it would be slightly better, but only to the extent of a slightly shiny surface covering an absolutely rotten core, that being that money can be stolen without a conviction or even trial, and it’s up to the former owner to prove that they deserve to get it back.

Skeeter says:

RICO Act

This whole issue should be relatively easy to resolve if advanced to a high-enough of a court, if only one affected person would pursue the RICO Act against any law enforcement agency who actually did this.

Once you win the RICO Act violation, THEN you publicly sue them for expenses and injury. Quite simple.

Anon E. Mous (profile) says:

Remember when the police duties were to uphold the law and stop crimes from being committed, and help citizens when needed.

It would seem nowadays that while that still appears to be their directive that various agencies in the Law Enforcement sector have turned their duties of enforcement into revenue generation.

These days we have photo radar and red light cameras which are alleged to be for enforcement of the laws they fall under but most people see as revenue generation under the guise of enforcement.

There are quotas for officers to write so many traffic tickets per month (even though most Police agencies deny this, but has been stated as such by some officers) and with those monetary fines it adds up for the department.

In the city where I live when photo radar was first introduced it made 3 million a year, the next year it made 7 million a year as they bought more photo radar equipped vehicles and they have continued to do so. In 2015 my city police department collected 45 million from photo radar… yes you read that right 45 million.

People and even politicians have been complaining in my city to the mayor and it’s council members that the police departments use of photo radar is not being use as a deterrent as meant, but as a revenue generation tool. The Police and our city Traffic safety office are very elusive about how and why they were able to generate 45 million from photo radar.

The media in my city had picked up on this and had found out that the powers that be and the police decided to lower the threshold of how many kilometers over the posted speed limit you had to be going over before you got a ticket.

The city traffic safety office and the police will not confirm or deny what that threshold is and will not confirm what the media is reporting it as.

The Police and traffic safety office have also been fighting against the call from citizens and council members to put more signs of what the posted speed limit is some areas where the speed goes from 60 to say 50 because they say it is not needed and drivers should know this already.

every year there are more and more red light and photo radar cameras going up at high traffic locations through out the city. ( and of course while the police and traffic safety office wont say it most of the public know that if you have 45000 cars going thru that particular intersection at rush hour times you are going to catch a percentage speeding and they know this and are playing the odds)

It seems more and more that law enforcement agencies are concerned with revenue generation under the guise of enforcement, and asset forfeiture seems to be the new “it” thing to achieve that goal.

The slippery slope and tactics law enforcement is employing these days seems to be of the we do what we want mantra and your rights be damned innocent or not.

Law Enforcement wonders why there is a major shift in the perception the people have about them nowadays and how they are under such scrutiny by the public and press, maybe it’s the shit like this that they do by seizing some citizens money when no crime has been committed is just one more reason why

Coyne Tibbets (profile) says:

Theft not forfeiture

Okay, forfeiture I don’t like, but I could see. The SCOTUS “hint” (not a ruling, just a hint) was that the theory underlying forfeiture was contraband, in the form of an instrument supporting a crime.

I don’t see how this applies. The theory with cash is straightforward enough: untraceable (nearly so) it can be used for illicit transactions, transactions out of the recorded view, and grudgingly, is therefore likely to be an instrument supporting a crime.

But every prepaid debit card I’m aware of these days has to be registered to its owner, because: terrorism. Transactions involving those cards are traceable. Therefore the “used for illicit transactions” fails on the face, because these supposed illicit transactions would be overt, reviewable.

So it seems to me that taking money from a prepaid debit card owned by a person–that is holding it–would have to constitute theft, not forfeiture, since it appears to me that the justification for forfeiture fails.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Theft not forfeiture

The theory with cash is straightforward enough: untraceable (nearly so) it can be used for illicit transactions, transactions out of the recorded view, and grudgingly, is therefore likely to be an instrument supporting a crime.

But every prepaid debit card I’m aware of these days has to be registered to its owner, because: terrorism. Transactions involving those cards are traceable.

You’re on the right track. Prepaid credit cards (gift cards) are anonymous.

The cops here are asking for far more than they need, knowing everyone will be smugly content with preventing the unreasonable draining of gift cards. Meanwhile, they get away with the continued erosion of our privacy: linking scanned gift cards with the identity of individuals who committed the suspicious activity of interstate travel.

Frost (profile) says:

Highway robbery by armed bandits.

If you convict someone of a crime and take the property that was most likely acquired through criminal means, that’s fine. The property should be sold at auction and the money go to fund something sensible, like social security. Under no circumstances directly back to the police force, which then has a direct incentive to falsely accuse people.

But taking money from citizens without ever giving them a day in court?

Highway robbery. It fits the textbook definition. Just because these people have uniforms and a paycheck from the state doesn’t mean they’re not criminals.

Merriam-Webster defines it: “robbery committed on or near a public highway usually against travelers.” Ie, exactly what is being done with impunity right now in Oklahoma (and other places).

Why isn’t there an uproar? Why aren’t these police being arrested by federal authorities?

Anonymous Coward says:

Call for all hackers

Obtain an ERAD device and develop a card that will use said device to transfer funds from the law enforcement account to the card in question while causing the ERAD device to show that transfer was successful.

What is needed here boys to bring this about? Do this often enough surreptitiously and the law enforcement account will go negative, do it properly and the specific LEO will cop the blame for the negative transaction.

It should have the positive effect of making the ERAD device unusable and very unprofitable for the ERAD manufacturers.

Anonymous Coward says:

It's worth pointing out,

that Oklahoma is a large dry state with a low population density. Stranding people without gas money could easily lead to death from exposure.

Notably this kind of banditry is not new in this region. The O.K. panhandle has been a favourite for desperado’s for hundreds of years. Police shakedowns, are also probably nothing new here. What is new, is the federal endorsement of it.

I regard this as economic warfare against the federal reserve bank. Federally endorsed banditry has an effect on the way the world see’s the stability of the U.S. dollar. Treating the Dollar like the Colombian Peso, is going to make the world view the dollar like the Colombian Peso.

So at a macro economic level, the effect is the same as the redcoats printing their own continentals, or the nazis printing five pound notes. It dilutes currency valuation.

There is no long term gain for the fed in letting this continue. Encouraging people into the black market is going to have consequences. George Washington learned that the hard way in 1791 when congress started demanding cash tax revenues from markets that weren’t cash driven.

David says:

Re: VIOLATION FEELS LIKE RAPE

I’m sure Hillary Clinton will want to stop this injustice once she is instituted into the presidency.

Good for you. Being sure of what Hillary Clinton actually is aiming to do once she is president is a privilege not granted to many. If she knows herself, she certainly knows how to keep a secret. Contrast this with Trump who wants to do five conflicting things within two paragraphs.

Moron or weasel: your turn, America.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: VIOLATION FEELS LIKE RAPE

I’m sure Hillary Clinton will want to stop this injustice once she is instituted into the presidency.

Is this the same Hillary Clinton that has said that any man accused of sexual assault against a woman should be automatically deemed guilty unless he can prove his innocence? Yeah, I don’t she’s too averse to “injustice”.

AC720 (profile) says:

Lots of companies PAY employees on prepaid cards

Lots of low-end jobs pay their employees via prepaid cards. Many McDonalds stores pay this way because it’s easier than paying by check, and in any case, many of the workers don’t have traditional bank accounts. I don’t see why this should make them guilty of anything. Seizing their money without trial is just ludicrous.

There have also been times when I’ve legitimately carried large amounts of cash. A group I used to work with held an annual event of sorts and I ended on on the crew counting ticket proceeds and packaging them to make a bank deposit. As it happened, the people on that crew including myself were all licensed weapon holders and we were, in fact, very well armed as we carried nearly $200,000 in cash to a bank deposit drop chute.

Would have been a real pain to get stopped by the cops. Several heavily armed men with a lot of cash? Surely they can’t simply be trying to protect themselves and their honestly-acquired money!?

David says:

Re: Lots of companies PAY employees on prepaid cards

Would have been a real pain to get stopped by the cops. Several heavily armed men with a lot of cash? Surely they can’t simply be trying to protect themselves and their honestly-acquired money!?

So much the better. You are much less likely to shoot the confiscating policemen than drug couriers would be. We are talking about ordinary highway men, I mean policemen here, not special forces. They wouldn’t mess with actual drug lords. They are neither trained nor paid for that.

runitbyme (profile) says:

I thought it funny that top cop Thompson said when he temporarily suspended the ERAD theft program, that the highway patrol may have lost a little respect in the past week. Understatement of the year. Cops in Oklahoma are now vilified by most of the public. All because cops now see the benefits of robbery and know while they can divide up the proceeds among themselves, there is no risk of jail if they overstep whatever weak boundaries exist (student loan payoff anyone?). Best job for a thief in the world!

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