And Now Pakistan Bans YouTube Again… Let's Hope It Doesn't Take Down Half The Internet This Time
from the maybe-don't-visit-sites-you-don't-like dept
So, just yesterday we wrote about Pakistan’s decision to block all of Facebook, because some users had set up a page for “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!” (in response to the threats made to Comedy Central concerning an episode of South Park). Originally, just that one page had been banned, but apparently that wasn’t enough, and a court ordered the entire site should be banned for allowing that sort of content to appear. In response, I asked if Pakistan would ban the internet if a page was put up advocating the same thing. It looks like the country may be trying to ban services one-by-one.
Now it’s been announced that Pakistan is blocking access to YouTube over the same issue. Of course, Pakistan tried to block YouTube a few years ago, and it ended up taking down a large chunk of the internet — so hopefully this time they’ve come up with a more sophisticated way of doing this. In the meantime, though, I’m still at a loss for how completely banning a site makes sense here, but it appears my original post somehow is being spread around Pakistan, because starting not so long ago there was a sudden rush of comments coming from people in Pakistan, defending the blocking decisions. Given that, how long until Techdirt gets blocked as well?
Comments on “And Now Pakistan Bans YouTube Again… Let's Hope It Doesn't Take Down Half The Internet This Time”
Facebook Blocking
Everything that is for public either it is internet or something else should have a fairplay policy. If someone is teasing or spreading hatred should be blocked. That page was being reported as hatred and blasphemy should have been blocked by facebook but they didn’t. Now there is no way other than to block it like China, Iran and some other countries has blocked it already.
Re: Facebook Blocking
In what way is drawing a picture of Mohammed, now after 1300 years or so since his death, idolatrous? Which was his original point in not drawing pictures of him.
Also people who do not follow the Islamic faith are not bound by Islamic beliefs…
Just to point out, I’m an atheist and also don’t care about what people draw or don’t draw.
Re: Facebook Blocking
In what way is drawing a picture of Mohammed, now after 1300 years or so since his death, idolatrous? Which was his original point in not drawing pictures of him.
Also people who do not follow the Islamic faith are not bound by Islamic beliefs…
Just to point out, I’m an atheist and also don’t care about what people draw or don’t draw.
Re: Facebook Blocking
there are millions of different sites and there are millions of different people who may find stuff on the internet offensive..for example there are sites in pakistan that offend jews, hindus, christians, the kuffrs in general. There are sites that say the word of god is to kill jews and hound them. now if we keep blocking all of these then where is the end?
we need to understand that being oversensitive doesnt help. what may be a rule to a muslim may not be a rule to a non muslim…you dont go to the site if you dont like it thats all.
Re: Facebook Blocking
I believe that blocking Youtube is offensive. So i guess we are in a deadlock.
Re: Facebook Blocking
“If someone is teasing or spreading hatred should be blocked.”
Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly”
Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”
Qur’an 2:191 “…kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”
Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”
Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”
Well, then, I guess we should block the Qur’an…
Re: Re: Facebook Blocking
King James Version
Exodus 35:2 “Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:14 “And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.”
Leviticus 24:16″And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him”
There are others, but I couldn’t find them in my quick search. I think there’s something in here about killing the non-believers.
Re: Re: Re: Facebook Blocking
Killing unbelievers? No, that wasn’t part of the Jewish or Christian beliefs until a few centuries AD.
Also, everything you noted above is for those living in subjection to the Hebrew Law–everything PRMan noted was talking about killing those OUTSIDE the scope of Islam.
Honestly, I find it sad that Islam is not painted as it truly is. 98% of the religions in human history have originally taught tolerance, but were later perverted to use as a purpose to kill the unbelievers. Islam teaches to kill the unbelievers, and it is now being perverted to teach tolerance.
Re: Re: Re:2 Facebook Blocking
No Cypheros, it is not so. Even Islam falls into the first category. It does not preach violence in any form.
Re: Re: Re:3 Facebook Blocking
To re-post PRMan:
So, Wazeem, either you are lying, or ignorant. Because having once been a Muslim, I can tell you that these are some of the more placid passages.
Re: Re: Re:4 Facebook Blocking
Fight and fighting and killing … this is all mentioned in the Quran! Agreed! This is what is taught too, but it’s there for when Islam is at threat! Islam never preaches killing and slaughtering just for the darned sake of it …
And, please, let’s not exaggerate by saying that these are some of the more placid verses …
I’m sure that, when you WERE a muslim, there must have been plenty of “ACTUAL” placid verses that you might have come across …
Re: Re: Re:2 Facebook Blocking
Cypheros …
get your facts right! 98% of religions taught tolerance originally, islam teaches killing? Where in the world do you get all that?
Get your facts right! What you’re doing here is BLABBERING!
Re: Re: Re:3 Facebook Blocking
lmao, 98% of all statistics are made up on the spot!
Re: Re: Re:2 Facebook Blocking
no it doesn’t if u read the quran then don’t say something you don’t know even about and don’t give a wrong comments about it okay
Re: Re: Re: Facebook Blocking
Yes there are some things like that in the old testament – however in general the new testament is regarded as superseding the old so:
“Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.”
which basically an injunction to take a holiday (or else)
but then again
(from Mark Ch 2)
“23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: “
You quote from Leviticus:
“And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.”
But then again
(From John Ch 8)
” 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. “
You quote Leviticus again
“And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him”
But then again blasphemy can be forgiven (from 1 Timothy ch 1)
“2And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. “
Now the Koran also has a principle of later verses superseding earlier ones – but according to an earlier commenter’s link http://techdirt.com/article.php?sid=20100519/1015269490#c47
the later ones are the more aggressive.
Re: Re: Facebook Blocking
Yeah ..it amazes me how the “religion of peace” is full of hatred..death and killing…oh right Clocks stopped for Muslims around 1300…
Re: Re: Facebook Blocking
PRMan.. man, it’s due to people like you that Islam gets a bad name. If you just had to go around quoting the verses you should have done it in context. What you have written gives an incomplete (and I should add totally incorrect!) interpretation.
Coming back to the topic, first of all, DO NOT turn everything into a ‘Muslims vs Others’ debate. The Pakistan government (and not the entire Muslim community!) banned the sites cause they felt some of the content was offensive. Did I find it offensive? As a Muslim, I may have. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to go around demanding the entire site be blocked. I would just report that page, as abusive (how many of you actually did this before jumping onto the block the site bandwagon!) and not visit it again. That does not in any way mean that I’m not against it! It’s just that everyone has the right to express themselves.
There is a lot of stuff on the net which maybe offensive to a lot of people, you can’t just go around blocking the entire internet.
PS: To all those saying that it’s none of my business, yeah well, maybe not. That was just my opinion, which I can express as I have freedom of expression. If you disagree, you can ignore this.
[or you could try to get techdirt.com blocked as well, after all, they’re the ones who allowed this comment to be posted on their site, right?? 😉 ]
Re: Re: Re: Facebook Blocking
“man, it’s due to people like you that Islam gets a bad name.”
No, it’s due to people blowing shit up in the name of their religion that give the Islamic people a bad name.
You say he shouldn’t take those quotes out of context, well you took his entire post out of context. It was a reply to Mujtaba who was asking to ban anything teasing or hateful. In that context, his post was as complete as it needed to be. He was pointing out that it would be stupid to start mass blocking stuff like that.
Re: Facebook Blocking
“Everything that is for public either it is internet or something else should have a fairplay policy.”
Outstanding. Who gets to set that policy? And if the power to set any part or the total of that policy rests with a select few people, is it really fairplay?
“If someone is teasing or spreading hatred should be blocked.”
More fun stuff. Who gets to define teasing and/or spreading hatred? Oh, btw, your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries. How can a religion built on strength of resolve and discipline have such collectively thick skins?
“That page was being reported as hatred and blasphemy”
By who?
“should have been blocked by facebook but they didn’t.”
Should have been blocked according to whom? Dammit, the entire world isn’t Muslim, and the entire world never WILL be Muslim.
“Now there is no way other than to block it like China, Iran and some other countries has blocked it already.”
Now let me preface this by saying, in case you don’t regularly read my comments, that I am far from an America apologizer, nor do I drink the USA Kool-Aid….but are you fucking kidding me? Your telling me that your collective country looked at the United States on hand, China and Iran on the other….and you’d rather be like THEM???!!!
There’s no hope for you Mujtaba.
Out of curiosity, how does one pronounce your name? Names always interest me. I’d have guessed Moosh-tuh-bah, but I wanted to see how close I was….
Facebook Blocking
So who’s version of teasing or blasphemy should we go by? I believe that everyone has the right to say what they want, be it to tease, insult or compliment. I believe that just because one person, or 1 country or hell, even the world doesn’t like it, doesn’t make it wrong. How is my opinion any less valid than anyone elses? Why should I loose the ability to experience the variety of ideas on the net because someone else doesn’t like them, or feels insulted by them.
Facebook shouldn’t ban the group, people drawing a historical figure is somehow blasphemy? Well I think people who want to ban others for expressing themselves in a non threatening way are blasphemers against truth and freedom, and should be banned from the internets in total.
So by all means Pakistan, ban facebook, youtube, oh and add google, yahoo and bing while your at it, after all, they link to anti-Mohammed websites, and that must be bad…
I want my internet a place of free expression, even if I hate whats being expressed.
Re: Facebook Blocking
Spot on!!!
Terms and Conditions of Facebook;
3. *Safety
6. You will not bully, intimidate, or harass any user.
7. You will not post content that: is hateful, threatening, or pornographic;incites violence; or contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence.
9. You will not offer any contest, giveaway, or sweepstakes (“promotion”) on Facebook without our prior written consent. If we consent, you take full
responsibility for the promotion, and will follow our Promotions Guidelines and – Hide quoted text -all applicable laws.
10. You will not use Facebook to do anything unlawful, misleading,malicious, or discriminatory.
12. You will not facilitate or encourage any violations of this Statement.
now if you say that all these statements are not applicable for Muslims than I should say that you are an asshole…as far as banning facebook or you tube is concerned this is our personal matter you should not be interfering in it.
Re: Re:
3. *Safety
>>>>you mean there will be bomb blasts in case of something that someone finds funny and someone else finds offensive?
6. You will not bully, intimidate, or harass any user.
>>>No one is right. It is a page and those who dont want to join the page may feel free not to join that page. Or are you saying muslims will bully intimidate or harrass users who open a page they find intellectual or though provoking…
7. You will not post content that: is hateful, threatening, or pornographic;incites violence; or contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence.
>>>>>>>>Awww…come on…
9. You will not offer any contest, giveaway, or sweepstakes (“promotion”) on Facebook without our prior written consent. If we consent, you take full
responsibility for the promotion, and will follow our Promotions Guidelines and – Hide quoted text -all applicable laws.
>>>>>>>>>Ok. What is the contest about. There is no contest but just an open canvass for all those who want to draw…
10. You will not use Facebook to do anything unlawful, misleading,malicious, or discriminatory.
>>>>>> nothing unlawful in having some collaboration
12. You will not facilitate or encourage any violations of this Statement.
>>>>>>>>>>>who is violating this?
Re: Re:
now if you say that all these statements are not applicable for Muslims
No – what we say is that no one group in society has the right to unilaterally define what these rules mean.
Drawing pictures of someone is not generally regarded as breaking any of these rules and no one has the right to set up their own personal interpretation and then try to force everyone else to accept it.
If that principle was allowed then there would be practically nothing that you could do – because just about anything will offend someone somewhere.
If you have your own peculiar set of sensibilities then I’m afraid you cannot expect the rest of the world to play along with you unless you can make the case by rational argument.
Re: Re: Re:
Actually, only one group truly does have that right. Anyone wanna guess just who that is? I’ll give you all a clue: Facebook cuts their paychecks.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Of course Facebook set the rules – and they decide what the rules mean – but in order to ensure the success of their enterprise they will interpret the rules in a way that is acceptable to the great majority of people on the planet.
If the Muslims want a different set of rules then they are of course free to set up their own social networking site – but I’m guessing that there wouldn’t be many non-muslims using it.
Re: Re:
“now if you say that all these statements are not applicable for Muslims than I should say that you are an asshole”
I do believe that these rules apply to Muslims, now quit being bullies.
“as far as banning facebook or you tube is concerned this is our personal matter you should not be interfering in it.”
And that’s your own stupid mistake, we are just pointing that out.
I hope for your sake and for your children’s sake you understand why people start things like “draw Muhammad day”. They don’t start it to make fun of Muslims, they start it to make fun of the people hell bent on killing others that don’t believe in their religion. You say our people shouldn’t make fun of your religion, I say your people shouldn’t send death threats to our people. No, I don’t believe that you sent a death threat, I’m just making an overly broad comment just like you did.
Re: Re: Re:
“… I’m just making an overly broad comment just like you did.”
Bingo.
Re: Re:
In the same Manner Muslims shouldn’t interfere with free speech? Or is that a one way street..SHIA law is BULLSHIT GO HOME and impose that garbage..try it in my neighborhood I PROMISE you will be met with a hail of 9mm pellets.
Re: Re:
As Muslims Its NOT our duty to silence everyone on EARTH!
That’s absolutely ridiculous! not to mention Impossible!
What do you do when a sibling bothers you? if you ignore them they will get bored after a while, but if you keep acknowledging them and then try to force them to stop what they are doing, you are only increasing the fun they are having, and inciting more!
As a well educated Muslim, what pains me is the growing number of Muslims who try to bully their points of view on the west, thinking they are doing a good thing and defending the Prophet, meanwhile these same people are spreading the caricatures of the prophet to more people who will get offended by it to get a rise out of them! Its like we enjoy getting offended!
Listen, you can’t enforce people, especially ones from a different country, culture, and continent all together, to abide by our beliefs, especially if you do it by force, and these “protests” and killings are making it 100 times worse.
If no issue was made of the initial drawings in Denmark, if Muslims didn’t forward the story to each other, nobody would have heard a damn thing, there would have been no worldwide coverage (it was a very minor newspaper with a very limited local circulation in Denmark after all, but because of us, their circulation was increased 10 fold, and they were made international heroes by freedom of the press activists), there wouldn’t have been any contests on Facebook, no shows (south park, Family guy) showing their own depictions of the Prophet, and no backlash to begin with!
As Muslims let’s admit one thing, our own stupidity is what sparked all this!
And it will only get worse if we continue this closed minded approach.
If they choose to make fun of our prophet, let them. It will fall on deaf ears, and after a few times they will get bored and stop!
What we did was make it fashionable to make fun of the Prophet!
If anything, we are the ones who will be punished for spreading their drawings, not them!! We gave it all this attention, and every single Muslim I know has seen them because another Muslim forwarded it to them!
If you are so horrified, then don’t click on the link! Its that simple!
I weep for Muslims and hope for the day we get smarter, and stop thinking and acting like we are 12 year olds with a bad temper.
Re: Re:
“7. You will not post content that: is hateful, threatening, or pornographic;incites violence; or contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence.”
So, if my religion says that cows are sacred, and therefore any picture of a cow is blasphemous, Facebook should ban any cow pictures?
And think it twice before saying something that cows can’t possibly be sacred anywhere like Mohammed, because that would only show your ignorance.
FB Blocking
What if i start supporting Nazism, communism or Terror groups. Does it count as freedom of Speech too? People abuse freedom of speech. Good Job Pakistan, hopfully other countries grow some ball too.
Re: FB Blocking
are you saying there are no such sites on the net or on facebook?? yes it is freedom of speech. and the ball is shown by the US not in banning and turning a blind eye but by letting it be in the open and let people judge for themselves…
Re: Re: FB Blocking
Try hosting these websites from US and wait for FBI to knock at your door. it just the matter of time until they get caught. And the reason some terror websites are active cuz they are source of intel and are constantly monitored. If this is freedom of Speech then why calling slurs is bad?
Re: Re: Re: FB Blocking
The FBI may indeed knock at your door and question you, but they CAN’T shut the site down just for talking about it. That is the point. There is a line between talking about it and promoting/encouraging violence. Speech is protected by the First Amendment, actions are not, pretty simple.
You do know there has been an American Nazi Party and The Communist Party of the United States of America (CPUSA) and their websites are hosted in the US.
Now to be clear I DO NOT support or defend these organisations but I DO support and defend the The Constitution of the United States of America and The Bill of Rights
Re: FB Blocking
As far as I’m concerned, everyone is free to follow any group/political organisation they choose. I don’t have to agree with or follow what they believe and that is my choice.
“Abusing freedom of speech” is a point of view someone has if they don’t like what the other person is saying.
Re: Re: FB Blocking
I think no one is supposed to offend someone and why did that person draw our leader did we do something bad to them no right so why us
Re: FB Blocking
King Khan claimed:
So you equate drawing caricatures of a religious figure to “supporting Nazism, communism or Terror groups”? That’s called a “strawman argument”, also known as “you lose”.
Doesn’t the Qur’an say you must use your reason to understand God? You should start by learning how reasoning works.
Re: Re: FB Blocking
@ Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
keep your “You lose” theory to urself, i am not in a court battle. Intentions and reasons are quite visible behind drawing caricatures.Freedom of speech is guaided by moral compass which are expected of normal human. Advocating and propagating intentional hatreated is not much difference from having fascist ideology, if you think this way, tomrrow you will have an organisation for same reason.
Re: FB Blocking
Despicable as it may be, yes, that is freedom of Speech.
Freedom of Speech is the right to say what you believe, even if the government or society does not like it. In the US (and most of the western world), your freedom of speech ends when you make a direct call to action that would abridge the rights and well-being of other people.
Think of it like this:
– One can whimsically wish that an unnamed city would be destroyed in a terrorist action. This may be despicable, but it is certainly free speech.
– One cannot make a direct call to action to destroy a specific city.
Now, lets look at this specific situation:
– One can draw a picture of Mohammed, Christ, Moses, or any other religious figure, and not abridge the rights or well-being of others (because you have the right to simply NOT LOOK).
– One cannot threaten others through pictures or other visual media.
Now, as for Pakistan blocking Facebook…meh, it doesn’t affect me, and if the Pakistani ppl don’t care, I honestly don’t see any reason for the rest of the world to interfere or even throw a temper-tantrum.
Re: Re: FB Blocking
Very well said
Re: FB Blocking
Go right ahead support and or espouse whatever you may wish! It will not affect me in anyway shape or form!
Why?
Because if I chose not to look at it then it cannot bother me! Grow up!
All external servers should block all queries coming from Pakistan IP’s! See how they fair in the business dealings without internet!
Oh and please don’t cry that it is not fair!
Big Mo
The problem is that it is just too tempting. If muslims didn’t react in such a funny way, if they didn’t react at all, then i doubt anyone would bother drawing the shy guy or even know that he didn’t like having images made of himself.
Out of interest is there a reason? is it to do with Old Testament idolatrous images?
Re: Big Mo
They believe Catholics, for instance, are idolators because they have statues of Jesus and Mary.
Freedom of speech!!!
Hey, everybody should have freedom of speech, I should be able to tell anything I like.
Objector, I would like to throw a pizza on ur face. Push you into poop.
Hey, isnt that freedom of speech!!!
Freedom of speech should be guided by right doings.
We know the intention of the page clearly, yet we fail to understand & claim everything which is not.
Re: Freedom of speech!!!
Agreed. A good human use their energies for positive thing rather then finding excuses to spread hate.
Re: Re: Freedom of speech!!!
And if people followed that idea, there would be no need for “draw Muhammad day”.
Re: Freedom of speech!!!
Freedom of speech is not the same thing as physical violence, you must be confused.
Freedom of speech should mean exactly that: freedom. If you don’t like it, don’t listen.
Re: Re: Freedom of speech!!!
Let me fix that for you.
Instead of “If you don’t like it, don’t listen” you should say, “If you don’t like, SUCK IT UP AND GET OVER YOURSELF.” Seriously. People nowadays are some of the biggest prudes I have ever met in my far-too-many years of living. You are *not* as important as you think you are, nobody gives a shit if you are offended, and quit getting your panties in a bunch over what people say.
Re: Re: Freedom of speech!!!
Sir, probably you don’t know what exactly is freedom of speech.
“I would like to throw a pizza on ur face. Push you into poop.”
This does not mean I physically did it or wanted to do it physically! Its just a speech!!! verbal threat 🙂
Do you now get me “Freedom of Speech”, use bad words n say freedom of speech.
Walk naked in front of Times Square n tell freedom of expression, then get caught by NYPD for breaking one of the country’s law.
Re: Re: Re: Freedom of speech!!!
Sorry, I misinterpreted what you meant.
Go right ahead and say that “you’d like” to push anyone in poo! 🙂 It is your right to do so!
Re: Re: Re: Freedom of speech!!!
By all means, you’re free to say “I want to push you into poopy poop!”. And we’re all free to make fun of you being a ‘tard!
ItNone of our busines
Re: ItNone of our busines
You’re an idiot.
Freedom of Speech
There are loads of groups and pages on facebook literally insulting Jesus etc, not just drawing pictures, and they’re allowed to stand too.
I don’t like them, so I don’t visit these pages. However, the people making them have a right to voice their opinion… It’s not up to facebook to ban anything negative towards anyone else and blocking the website is just ridiculous…
Re: Freedom of Speech
It… actually IS up to Facebook… They OWN the business those pages are posted on, and they are the ones who will decide if they stay or go. Guess what? They’re allowed to. It’s their service, and they’ll do what they want. Within the confines of the law WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED. Means the US, not Pakistan.
I think its unreasonable for muslims to expect that non-muslims will oblige to respecting their faith and Im saying this as a muslim. But as far as the ban goes, its at least more rational than a boycott of facebook on facebook or violent protests. If a population agrees to imposing a restriction on themselves democratically or if they fail to voice their displeasure with it then there is not much anyone else should say about it. Germany has the same thing with Nazi symbols; if you dont like something, stay away from it. I know this does not go well with proponents of freedom but in this case its a question of our freedom to access content versus your freedom of speech. It isnt an ideal solution and I really hope people of Pakistan would realize that cyber-censorship is a slippery road and will inevitably lead to more problems for a country where access to education is not prolific and where the internet is possibly the only gateway to a better world view. But in any case this conclusion is something that they will have to arrive on their own.
Re: Re:
You lost me right here:
In Muslim populations? Puh-lease.
Re: Re: Re:
Well anecdotal democracy to say the least. You haven’t seen any protests against the ban so I assume Pakistanis are happy with the ban. Furthermore, you do know there’s a democratically elected government in PK right now? It might not be impressive by your standards but its still one that came to power by getting votes.
Well anecdotal democracy to say the least. You haven’t seen any protests against the ban so I assume Pakistanis are happy with the ban. Furthermore, you do know there’s a democratically elected government in PK right now? It might not be impressive by your standards but its still one that came to power by getting votes.
Face book Bocking
Good Job Pakistani’s,
now this world will know what we Muslims can do to defend our dignity and honour.
We all love and respect Mohammad (peace be upon him) and cannot allow anyone under any circumstances to draw his sketches, Facebook will realize what a terror they had made.
Soon we will find facebook on knees.
All defenders of facebook, think being neutral, would you tolerate any one sketching your loved ones publicily (your parents or siblings) on guess, think neutral.
Re: Face book Bocking
you sir are an idiot
Re: Face book Bocking
(((:~{>
Re: Re: Face book Bocking
DS – that totally looks like a picture of mohammed, you are on the list
Re: Re: Re: Face book Bocking
You looked at it, you are on the list right behind me.
(((B~{>
Re: Face book Bocking
As a Muslim, it shames me to hear you talk like that.
Not only are you wrong, your statements are ridiculous and make no sense, and it further shows the world how backwards and ignorant we are.
You can’t police the entire world according to our beliefs! You are insane if you think that is our duty as Muslims.
I dare you to show a single verse of the qur2an that says that we should threaten to kill other cultures because they make fun of us or draw our prophet. The Qur2an said: “Lakom deenakom we leya deen” which translates to: “You have your religion, I have mine.”
The fact is we overreacted, and instead of getting them to stop, we scared them into purposely offending us. It started as an insignificant article in a local newspaper with little circulation in Denmark, and now its a worldwide event, where people line up just to offend us!
This isn’t defending dignity or honor. How is it exactly? By blocking our access to the world, or by threatening to kill? Or by actually killing? Or by showing the world that we are a bunch of crybabies? The fact is if we had ignored the first cartoon, that would have been all that she wrote!
Please people, think a little for god’s sake.
Re: Re: Face book Bocking
I commend you. You are possibly the most intelligent and sane person I’ve seen posting on this article.
Re: Re: Face book Bocking
Dear God, thank you for showing all of us that Muslims as a whole are not represented by extremists. I happen to take a more critical view of so called Islamic nations than you, it seems, but that doesn’t change the fact that all people have the capacity to think rationally, Muslims included.
Here’s to hoping there are more folks like you out there. Islam is owed every bit as much respect as other belief structures out there. But is it me, or is Islam going through the same thing Christiantiy did between 1000AD and 2000AD in terms of trying to export itself EVERYWHERE?
Seriously, if your entire religion has nothing better to do than worry what other people think of it and its god, then it is a cult.
* we have a hell of a lot more Pakistanis in America than Americans in Pakistan. It must be horrible here with all this freedom.
Re: Re:
Well actually we do have a lot of americans in our neighbourhood 🙂
Re: Re: Re:
Yes those that came and got citizenship and went back(wards)! They could not stand living in a free democracy!
Re
Hey, you are again taking an advantage of free speech.
Islam is the religion of peace,
I guess you know Islam quiet well, I told you think being neutral, you are getting biased. Havent you studied “SUNNI LAW”.
Dont get biased,
Re
Hey, you are again taking an advantage of free speech.
Islam is the religion of peace,
I guess you know Islam quiet well, I told you think being neutral, you are getting biased. Havent you studied “SUNNI LAW”.
Dont get biased,
Re: Re
My only bias is against mechanisms that allow the powerful few to filter the information available to the many and to restrict the conveyance of information to one another.
Spreading hate is a great waste of effort. However should we let the hatred of a few idiots create mechanisms that could likewise be used to prevent the spreading of peaceful and uplifting messages? (or information of any kind more to the point)
Western governments are trying to use enterprise (IP) and panic over child pornography to create mechanisms to stifle free speech. Same problem, different permutation.
Once you give the government the mandate… they will abuse it.
Protest in Pakistan?
Are you kidding? No one would protest this in Pakistan unless they wanted to get killed. The same authority that pushed for the ban has the ability to blow you up. Pakistan is a pseudo-democracy, still controlled by religious doctrine.
Re: Protest in Pakistan?
Well it is a pseudo-democracy but the causes don’t include religious fundamentalism. As far as getting blown up for protesting goes, yes there will probably be such repercussions if one was protesting in favour of such images being drawn. What I was referring to was protesting against the ban on facebook. A bbc news article will point out that some people have said that an outright ban was a bit excessive.
“I told you think being neutral”
Think – not caring. Nobody else cares what you believe and dont want your beliefs imposed upon them. Seperation of ‘church’ and ‘law’ is fundamental. Engage solutions with logic and reason based off current resources, rather than what some dude wrote in times that are of no consequence to the present.
What if I draw a hundred different pictures and call them all mohammed. Have I drawn him a 100 times, what if one time I fucked off and drew a half cow half pig and named it moo-ham-odd does that one count?
Gawd, it gets a bit tiresome having to pander to gods and their advocates.
If Pakistan doesn’t want Facebook and YouTube, then let it be. Maybe, similar sites in that country will see an opportunity to expand, sites that Pakistan finds more appropriate. (Facebook and Google might want to invest in such projects.)
All a bit of a yawnfest, really.
freedom of speech???they are against terrorism????come off it. yeah sure you have got your freedom of speech so i can draw naked pictures of your mom who might be very important to you. i will say hey its freedom of speech pal i’ll do what i want. Although i can do it but i wont cause i respect people that this may be legal but its unethical.
Our holy Prophet is most important for us. They are offending muslims they have done wrong. All muslims are not bad, all muslims are not terrorists they are normal people like you they have a life. Think about it.
Re: Re:
Go right ahead, if I found naked drawings of my mom, I’d either laugh at the absurdity or shake my head and ignore them. I would not, however, yell “LOOK EVERYONE! THIS GUY DREW NAKED PICTURES OF MY MOM, PUNISH THE PENCIL COMPANY!” Why would I want to give them the attention that would cause?
Re: Re:
The fact that you cannot seem to comprehend why someone drawing naked pictures of someone else’s mother won’t get the same sort of reaction is why you fail so very, very hard. Want the rest of the world to stop thinking all Muslims are terrorists? Then as a people RISE UP against the religious sects and leaders that run your country. Tell them enough is enough. There is no reward without risk, something even your people should know.
Best way to fight Muslims
You know, it’s kinda funny how the world of Muslims work, someone draws a picture half way around the world and 10 or 15 of them kill themselves in protest.
I say all non Muslims should wake up, videotape themselves sitting on the crapper reading a page of the Quo ran, when they are all done with the page they rip it out and wipe their ass clean with it.
End the Video with “Fighting the War on Terrorism and World Domination, one page at a time.”
I figure if a picture of Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban kills 20+, the Quo ran should be good for at least 4 or 5 per page!
Let them do the work for us.
Re: Best way to fight Muslims
Ouch…
Taking it a little far maybe? Muslims are highly religious, do you want to insult them just for the sake of insulting them? Try a little tolerance (in both directions) maybe?
Re: Re: Best way to fight Muslims
Until they stop trying to force their bullshit ways on me yes, I will insult them just for the sake of insulting them.
Here is a visual, Mohamed sitting on the toilet with his turban full of bombs, wiping his ass on the koran…
Re: Re: Best way to fight Muslims
Telling me that I cannot draw something because “some book they really like says so” is an insult to me. Why do muslims keep insulting me?
hrm does htis mean VOIP tech support will suffer now
good i hope they take themselves right off the net
then we can pay our own citizens for tech support
Re: hrm does htis mean VOIP tech support will suffer now
You get your tech support from Indians you racist buffoon
uu======D
– yeah but im on the list for drawing his junk
Dont confuse Islam with idolatrism
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
It is very surprising to hear that the non-Muslims think that they wont ever become a Muslim.. Dude, u r wrong… thats because u dont know that u will one day become a muslim as it is stated in the Holy Qur’an that Jesus is not dead but Allah has raised him up and he will send him down again to convert the non-Muslims to Muslims.. Holy Qur’an says,
“But they killed him not nor they crucified him. Nay!
Allah raised him up unto himself”
Non-Muslims wont ever accept the fact that they r going to be converted because they dont know how much strong is Islam and they r scared to face the strength of the Muslims..
Check it out.. Just because of the Muslim countries’ boycott on Facebook and Youtube they have suffered a loss of 2 billion euros.. If the Muslims will carry on this boycott they will suffer great economic losses at the hands of the Muslims..
BTW its none of your business to interfere in anyone’s religion.. Mind your own business!!!
Re: Dont confuse Islam with idolatrism
Salaam, my friend. I have a few questions, if I may:
“It is very surprising to hear that the non-Muslims think that they wont ever become a Muslim.. Dude, u r wrong…”
Does this mean that you find it surprising that non-Muslims believe they will never be Muslim? Does it also mean you think that at some point EVERYONE on Earth will be Muslim?
“thats because u dont know that u will one day become a muslim as it is stated in the Holy Qur’an that Jesus is not dead but Allah has raised him up and he will send him down again to convert the non-Muslims to Muslims..”
Well, frankly, you don’t KNOW that either. You may BELIEVE it to be true, and perhaps it is, but that is not something known. And a large percentage of the world does not consider the Qur’an to be holy. Of, frankly, of all that much importance. Keep in mind that of the three major religions, Islam is the youngest. It’s a latecomer. That doesn’t make it wrong, but why would you be surprised non-Muslims don’t believe they will be Muslims?
“Non-Muslims wont ever accept the fact that they r going to be converted because they dont know how much strong is Islam and they r scared to face the strength of the Muslims..”
You’re generalizing, and even THAT doesn’t make sense. If non-Muslims won’t ever accept that they’re going to be Muslims, then how can they become Muslims? And I can assure you that, while I respect Islam as a belief structure, I no more fear Muslims than Christians, Jews, Hindus, and pretty much every other religion other than Bhuddists (those guys are SO nice!). I’m curious as to why someone so devout in a religion of peace is so willing to make precarious generalizations?
“BTW its none of your business to interfere in anyone’s religion.. Mind your own business!!!”
Who is trying to interfere in your religion? No one I’ve heard. But guess what, Islamic nations are part of the world community. If they want to act like bullies, they can expect to get treated like bullies….the same way the United States has begun to get treated like a bully because of how arrogantly we have acted in recent years.
No country lives in a vaccuum, and to expect to attain religious hegomony is an absolutely silly notion. It didn’t work for Catholicism, it sure as shit won’t work for Islam. Hell, Islam ITSELF has half a billion different sects and offshoots….
Re: Re: Dont confuse Islam with idolatrism
I like your writing DH.
It’s too bad Aristotle was a heathen.
Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse Islam with idolatrism
“I like your writing DH.”
I appreciate that. You can download an entire novel by me through the link on the upper right hand side of my blog, which I encourage you to do, mostly because I’m a praise hungry narcisist with an entirely inflated opinion of himself….
Re: Dont confuse Islam with idolatrism
Saying that I will convert to some religion is an insult to me and it is offensive. Why do you seek to insult and offend me? Your comment should be banned from the internets.
“BTW its none of your business to interfere in anyone’s religion.. Mind your own business!!!”
After you just got done telling us it is our destiny.
Ignorant fux, and if we are all going to be muslim anyway why bother with it now? or do i not get my virgins until im tenured?
“hegomony is an absolutely silly notion.” – its a silly word as well
Re: Re:
Yeah, it’d probably help if my dumbass would spell it correctly….
FAcebook and youtube blocked
It has been a day since Facebook has been blocked in Pakistan, Facebook has felt a sudden jerk in its traffic, which accounts to about 25% of 65 GB traffic. Now Youtube faces the music, blocked !! read all in detail on my post :
http://www.worldshotcake.com/microsoft/facebook-is-disappointed-youtube-faces-blockage/
Take Care
Re: FAcebook and youtube blocked
You should use real stats
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/facebook.com
they are up 1.2% over 7 days, down .7% in 24 hours. So they have actually gained .5% since being blocked. Keep preaching your ignorance to yourselves, the rest of us google.
Re: FAcebook and youtube blocked
That’s just precious, 25% of Facebook’s traffic comes from Pakistan! They must really love FarmVille!
Are these guys serious?
I could care less about facebook, that site is shit anyway.
But youtube? Is this a fuckin’ joke? Do problems EVER end in Pakistan? Banning these sites wont make everything better, the content on facebook still exists. And why is the government taking this situation in its hand? Shouldn’t it be facebook deleting/blocking these pages/urls? If they wanna ban something, it should be pornography sites. Youtube is blocked, but not Redtube? What the hell is wrong with pakistani government. And i don’t see America banning facebook/Youtube whenever someone insults Christianity. Hell I joke around about Jews alot on Youtube, and people joke around bout Islam, but we don’t see Jews raging. This world is full of ignorant fools and trolls and this country needs to understand that and handle it wisely, not get all over the scene and ban the god damn sites. Hell I just remembered Wikipedia is banned too. This better be some late april fools joke.
Twitter has been blocked as well
silly fellow pakistanis
@PRman,,,,,,””””Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”””””””.if u werent a hate monger, u would know the context of such verses. its my islamiat ppr in 4 days so i know wat the contxt of at least and im sure the rest of the verses are. this was revealed after muslims (313 in number) defended madinah against a well armed 1000 odd makkans on horse and camel back, while the muslims had a dozen armours and 20 odd camels to ride. God sent divine help and ‘instilled terror into hearts of the unbelievers”.
i too dont like the ban as it has only publicized the existance of the page, just look at all the comments on this page, for heaven’s sake, but i think the point everyone is raising is that who decides what will incite violence and wat is spreading hate. as Facebook is not a an international democratic organisation run by UN(read the sarcasm), it is facebook’s personal responsibility to decide the interpretation. i mean, they can block any content, its THEIR site, not public property, and when some 30 odd pages against the page with some 200,000 likes collectively r present, that should give them a prod that something is definitely not right, that 1.6 billion people(muslims) feel it is spreading hate and instigates violence, (muslims agree on stuff, unlike the rest). that is a big enough number.
however, i do believe that Fb policy is vague and open to interpretation thus u and i r nobody to decide wat hate means to Facebook owners, it is their right. it is our right to try and teach them manners, its their right to bother to listen to us or ignore us
and you r tellin our people to stop the brain-washed dudes blowin themselves up, well we will do that are doing that. we are not the first to have a minority, read european history and tell me how many evil monarchs u’ve had, Hitler wasnt a muslim, the inquisition wasnt a mullah’s idea. We will come out of it, just like you did. than ull have terrorists and some muslim will be tellin u to stop them(now im just taking jibes at you
Ridiculous
This is patently absurd. As in all depictions of alleged ancient religious figures, we have absolutely no idea of what the person was supposed to have looked like or, indeed, if he/she ever existed at all. The persona ever existed on paper/scrolls/tablets or whatever, in any case, and who’s to say that the whole religious thing (whatever denomination) is not just a carefully crafted enormous fairy story? Believe what you will but bear in mind that a BELIEF is all it is. There is no proof whatsoever that these figures existed in real life and I would advise these fanatical zealots not to be religious bigots by trying to force an ethereal dogma on to other folk who may not have the same point of view.
facebook ban
can’t we fight with unity against such stuff ? Blocking fb and youtube is not a way to show r unity ,not a way to show tht we r Muslims and we care for are religious ….shudn’t we do sumthng Practically !!!!!
facebook blocking
my two cents
It is wrong to make fun of what other people believe in. A joke is funny as long as everyone enjoys it, making fun of some body else’s religion is like making fun of a mentally challenged person or perhaps a making jokes about a dead person at his funeral in front of his grieving children when you dont even know that person or were not invited to that place. see my point, freedom of speech is a good thing but shouldn’t it be linked to freedom of good manners and sensitivity?
Facebook Blocking
The extremists who believe in killing are not muslims but any muslims standards. This stuff is not insulting to the extremists and terorists but it is insulting to the rest of us who have to go through life seeing people hate our religion.
We are taught nothing but to give others love and care since childhood. No one should have a right to hurt other people’s feelings because some others have done bad things.
I urge all muslims to stop commenting on such things so this thing doesnt get publicized any further.