Broad Coalition Tells Congress To Bring Back The Office Of Technology Assessment

from the about-freaking-time dept

For many, many years now we've been talking about why Congress needs to bring back the Office of Technology Assessment that existed from 1972 until 1995 when Newt Gingrich defunded it as part of his "Contract with America" which apparently (who knew?) included making Congress more ignorant and less informed about technology. Year after year, some in Congress have proposed bringing back the OTA, but it keeps getting voted down. Just recently, we had two Congressional Representatives -- Rep. Mark Takano and Rep. Sean Casten -- write a piece here at Techdirt arguing why we need to bring back the OTA.

And it might actually be happening. While Gingrich defunded the OTA in 1995, the law creating it is still on the books. Congress doesn't need to pass any new law to bring it back, it just needs to fund it again. And, perhaps surprisingly, the House put forth an appropriations bill that includes $6 million towards reviving the OTA.

Earlier today, a very broad coalition of organizations and individuals (including our sister organization, The Copia Institute) sent a letter to the Senate urging it to support this small level of funding to better educate themselves on technology and technology policy issues. This is not a partisan issue in the slightest (as should be obvious from the coalition of signatories on the letter). This is an issue about spending a very small amount of money to make sure that our legislators actually know what the fuck they're talking about when they're trying to understand and regulate around technology issues.

On behalf of the undersigned organizations and individuals, we write to express our concern that Congress does not have sufficient capacity to tackle 21st century science and technology policy challenges. Accordingly, we urge you to prioritize efforts to augment this institutional capacity, including providing funding for the Office of Technology Assessment (OTA), as part of the fiscal year 2020 Legislative Branch Appropriations bill.

The Senate has played a leading institutional role in promoting science and technology capacity in Congress. We note with favor the recently created Science, Technology Assessment and Analytics (STAA) team inside the Government Accountability Office, and its expanding capabilities to serve Members of Congress with expert advice and analysis. We also look forward to the forthcoming report from the National Academy of Public Administration later this year.

But OTA and STAA have different comparative advantages: the former in foresight and emerging technologies, and the latter in oversight and evaluating federal government programs and expenditures. Congress must have both these capabilities to meet the ever-increasing demands on its oversight and legislative responsibilities.

Hopefully, this time, Congress will pay attention, and proactively choose to better educate themselves.

Filed Under: congress, ignorance, ota


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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 May 2019 @ 7:52pm

    "Congress will pay attention, and proactively choose to better educate themselves."

    Somehow I feel that Hell will freeze over, pigs will fly, and monkeys will write Shakespeare's collective works before Congress will educate themselves.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 12:12am

      Would you settle for a bacon-eating monkey typing out Hamlet in a meat locker?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 5:07am

      Re: educate Congress ?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 5:18am

        Re: Re: educate Congress ?

        can't be done.
        Congress is a political organization and all its actions are political, not scientific or intellectual

        This "broad coalition" pushing OTA revival is just another political special interest group lobbying their pet project.

        What were the OTA grand accomplishments in its 23 year existence?
        None

        How did America survive for 200 years without an OTA ?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:35am

          Re: Re: Re: educate Congress ?

          Congress (presently occupied by rich & self righteous egomaniacs) is a political organization and all its actions are political, not scientific or intellectual, except for a few individuals who are not like the rest, but some do not want to acknowledge them.

          just another political special interest group - and what isn't?

          What were the OTA grand accomplishments in its 23 year existence? - did you even do a quick search of link titles? I doubt it.

          How did America survive for 200 years without a fascist dictatorship?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:55am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: educate Congress ?

            then please cite just one OTA big accomplishment !

            (should be really easy since you claim that info is so readily available at some unspecified web links you have researched)

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 7:54am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: educate Congress ?

              Success is determined by one's big accomplishments.
              Got it.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 10:12am

              Re: Obvious Troll Trolls Obviously

              then please cite just one OTA big accomplishment !

              From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Technology_Assessment:

              It was a leader in practicing and encouraging delivery of public services in innovative and inexpensive ways, including early involvement in the distribution of government documents through electronic publishing. Its model was widely copied around the world.

              It's right there, man. You can't even be bothered to look up the Wikipedia entry on it?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Bamboo Harvester (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 7:41am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: educate Congress ?

            "How did America survive for 200 years without a fascist dictatorship?"

            We didn't. FDR was the worst of the lot.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 12 May 2019 @ 3:04am

      Or something like that

      Somehow I feel that Hell will freeze over, pigs will fly, and monkeys will write Shakespeare's collective works before Congress will educate themselves.

      'It is difficult to get a politician to understand something, when current and future 'donations' depends on them not understanding it.'

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    The Astounding Afficionado, 10 May 2019 @ 7:53pm

    Again with "our sister organization, The Copia Institute"!

    That's just YOU, Masnick! "Supported" by GOOGLE and Silicon Valley investors.

    WHY DO YOU KEEP LYING THAT IT'S SEPARATE? That's flatly a lie. Just mention it in passing instead of hand me the FACT that you're LYING. What you're doing gives every appearance of aggrandizing, if not fraud.

    As to topic: SIX million bucks? Pfft! In my day, you could buy only one man for that figure, so now it's inconsequential.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Gary (profile), 10 May 2019 @ 7:57pm

      Re: Again with Trolls

      Oh hey Copia Institute - they rock!

      Have you worked with any prestigious free speech groups, Blue Balls?
      Have you made a web page to support free speech?
      Oh - Could you write down what common law is?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 10 May 2019 @ 9:58pm

        Re: Re: Again with Trolls

        How do I find the Copia Institute on a business entity search on the California Secretary of State's website?

        Is it an LLC or corporation? Is that the legal name?

        Thanks.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 May 2019 @ 8:56pm

    Wonder how those congressmen feel about having an article appear on a site with such bigoted HATE SPEECH in the comments.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Madd the Sane (profile), 10 May 2019 @ 11:04pm

      Hate Speech?

      Probably because they know what actual hate speech is.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Gary (profile), 10 May 2019 @ 11:08pm

      Re:

      bigoted HATE SPEECH

      Calling that self-help scammer John Smith a liar isn't hate speech.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 12:10am

      Do you mean the quasi-regular comments from the anonymous troll who rants about anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, or that recent comment from fellow troll “Hamilton” where he used the N-word numerous times for no reason other than to get a rise out of people?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:38am

      Re:

      Hang on ... is there non-bigoted hate speech?
      If so, please provide an example

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 10:42am

      Re:

      bigoted HATE SPEECH in the comments.

      Well, fortunately, you are the minority on this web site and your bigoted hate speech is usually hidden by the community. So other than your comments, I see no bigoted hate speech.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 May 2019 @ 11:50pm

    Calling that self-help scammer John Smith a liar isn't hate speech.

    Odd that this hater doesn't even claim what this supposed "scam" is, but that's why they call them haters.

    I can just submit a collection of postings from here to the congresspeople and ask if they endorse the terms used on a site which bears an article with their names.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 2:23am

    If only they would spend $6 million to ban lobbyists from the game, then they might have a reason to listen to an impartial office that exists solely to avoid them saying stupid things, like...

    Its a series of tubes...

    Vaccines are Sorcery...

    The wind is a finite resource these turbines are stealing...

    Hollywood is broke...

    Why yes spending an additional 100 million on a project already 500 million over budget is a good thing...

    We totally should allow farm subsidies to help our families & their thoroughbred horse farms...

    This version of the Tiger repelling rock DOES work...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 3:00am

      Re:

      I wish to buy your rock

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 5:18am

        Re: Re:

        The wind actually can be over-harvested. Living in a world where winds can't propagate would lead to many environmental problems, not least of them desertification.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 6:09am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "The wind actually can be over-harvested."

          Tell that to trees.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:44am

          Re: Re: Re:

          I am interested in your scientific theories and would like to subscribe to your news letters.

          Of the many possible environmental disasters that may result from believing any of those scientists .... which one do you look forward to the most?

          Is it the desertification of the entire planet? Is this why your buddies are polluting our aquifers?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2019 @ 2:59am

          Re: Re: Re:

          That would be thermodynamically quite impressive given that the wind is caused by temperature differentials and the absolute theoretical maximum is 59%. The actual issues would be possible changes to circulation patterns but certainly not 'can't propagate'.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2019 @ 7:07am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            I'm certain that when the oceanic current failures cause increased weather anomalies it will be blamed upon some ridiculous source, so why not windmills? We could just as easily blame cheese burgers.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Thad (profile), 13 May 2019 @ 10:11am

      Re:

      If only they would spend $6 million to ban lobbyists from the game

      You get that the "broad coalition of organizations and individuals [who] sent a letter to the Senate urging it to support this small level of funding to better educate themselves on technology and technology policy issues" are lobbyists, yes? They are lobbying for funding for the reinstatement of the Office of Technology Assessment.

      While there is a serious problem with money in politics, "ban all lobbyists" is a reductive response to that problem. There are good lobbies and there are bad lobbies; there are good lobbyists and there are bad lobbyists. What we need to do is set limits on how people and organizations are allowed to lobby (and, in particular, how they're allowed to spend money), not ban lobbying entirely.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 3:47am

    Someone pointed out to me the other day just how illiterate many people are concerning technology. For example, try to step backwards in time and pose the question, to Americans, living in the past, that the phrase “Make America Great Again” would be controversial. If they were offended, they would have been offended by the idea that America was ever NOT great. “What do you mean, make it great AGAIN, it’s GREAT already!” They would exclaim.

    But now, with the technology enabled anonymity that is provided by the Web (and by this forum), American Traitors feel empowered to say “America was NEVER that great”. Wow. IMHO, they should all be hung by the neck until very uncomfortable. But then, I am not POTUS.

    What Technology has done is to enable and promote the biggest set of lies, deceits, falsehoods and foreigner propaganda stories ever fielded, beyond even the imagination of previous generations. The world is trying to STEAL from America, with help from traitors like HRC.

    But, in my humble opinion, the Founding Fathers were wise. They set up a system that balances itself. While the rest of the world imagines that America is crazy, it is not. Instead of being crazy, the Founding Fathers founded a system that allows the crazies to be heard. That’s incredibly wise, beyond the ability of any dictator or tyrant in world history. By listening to the crazies, we are all reminded that they ARE crazies. And we move on, leaving the crazies behind us. And HRC in the woods, where she belongs.

    MAGA. God Bless Donald John Trump, the Magnificent, the POTUS. May his statues never be torn down. Or if they are, let them be replaced by the next STABLE GENIUS that will set America back on the right path, just as he has done.

    Amen

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 4:45am

      Re:

      Ok, well you have your reality and I have mine.

      I remember the time you are talking about. It’s when ASSHOLES like you proclaimed that it was OK to call people BLACK - well, it was not OK back then and it is NOT ok NOW! They are Negros!

      And about your bullshit ideas that there are lies amongst us, let me say this! Money is a fantasy! We should all share with each other! I remember sharing my body with many, many, many men and boys in the 60’s, and I was RIGHT to do so! Many events I don’t remember, but that’s GOOD, because that’s what mushrooms are SUPPOSED TO DO! Yeah, just like in Colorado and California, mushrooms and young men and middle aged men and old men go well together (with me). That’s life, and you should respect it, OR ELSE!

      And you should listen to me! I’m a PhD, let me tell you how I got my degree. I studied horses, especially Pony Express horses, and what they lived, and how they felt, and what they ate., They ate APPLES! Wow, that was my first insight. And then, later, I uniquely discovered that they SHIT APPLE SEEDS! That’s right, I outright proved it, I might have been the first. AND THEN, JOHNY APPLESEED (or was it Jhon Smith?)took all the credit.

      He was a liar and a pervert and a racist and empathized with SLAVE HOLDERS! I was the first to prove that. AND SO, many of the Apples and Apple Seeds and Apple CIder and Apple Pie in America are RACIST PRODUCTS, and have been for HUNDREDS of YEARS and now you have to PAY. I think 5 cents for each racist apple produced in the US every year would suffice, approximately $18B growing at 2.5% annually, payable immediately, 212 years in arrears (negotiable).

      SIgned - Frederick Douglass, Paypall Accepted, Email to FDAppleSeedFund@fundme.com

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 11 May 2019 @ 5:31am

      Re:

      Someone pointed out to me the other day just how illiterate many people are concerning technology. For example, try to step backwards in time and pose the question, to Americans, living in the past, that the phrase “Make America Great Again” would be controversial. If they were offended, they would have been offended by the idea that America was ever NOT great. “What do you mean, make it great AGAIN, it’s GREAT already!” They would exclaim.

      I rather doubt that George Washington would agree. Or Abraham Lincoln. Or Dwight Eisenhower. They invested a lot of work making America a better country.

      "Make America Great Again" is mostly controversial when spoken by a grandiose bankrupteer who spits on the law of the land, in particular its constitutional division of powers and stuffs his and his construction cronies' pockets with U.S. money he claimed Mexico was going to pay and that he instead has stolen with "Executive Privilege" bypassing Congress' right to budget.

      I mean, the Mueller report basically says that Trump would be guilty of obstruction of justice had his underlings actually obeyed the instructions he gave them. This is not who you want to depend on for increasing the greatness of America.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 5:44am

        Re: Re:

        Wow, you sound a lot like Wendy.

        Anyway, I am interested in what you are saying, whoever you are. You are saying Trump is guilty of obstructing an investigation looking into a charge that was proven to be false. By Mueller, over two years, and with $50M invested to try (his best) to prove otherwise, but instead, Mueller PROVED that there was no conspiracy with the Russians, at all, ever, by any American. Straight from the written report, published and read by many Americans, is that a fair summary?

        He obstructed the investigation that PROVED there was no conspiracy by doing what again? Telling someone (who again? The guy with 3 versions?) to do something that never happened? That’s your argument, right? He thought of a crime, that never happened, so he should go to PRISON! And the crime was to stop the process that proved there was no crime. Oops. That sounds contractions a little, doesn’t it? Or are you a wack job?

        You are saying it is reasonable to take a man, accuse him of a (proven) false charge, then CONVICT him for telling someone (allegedly) to STOP the investigation, that was, by the way, NEVER STOPPED, and proved him INNOCENT.

        And then you are using evidence from THAT SAME investigation that was NEVER STOPPED to Prove that he obstructed the investigation that proved him innocent.

        Who’s the crazy one again, fruit loop?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 9:35am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "I tried to convince someone working under me to murder someone, repeatedly, but they didn't actually do it, so everything is fine!"

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 13 May 2019 @ 12:26am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "then CONVICT him for telling someone (allegedly) to STOP the investigation, that was, by the way, NEVER STOPPED"

          So, breaking the law is fine so long as you're a miserable failure at it?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:49am

      Re:

      Understanding technology has nothing to do with a hat that has words on it.

      Hahaha - this is satire

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2019 @ 5:04pm

      Re:

      “They should all be hung by the neck until very uncomfortable”
      -John Smith on murdering his political enemies and proving the points they make at the same time.

      Gunboat diplomacy baby

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:29am

    the House put forth an appropriations bill that includes $6 million towards reviving the OTA.

    ...

    This is an issue about spending a very small amount of money

    Wow, I wish I could get my hands on a very small amount of money like that!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 6:50am

      Re:

      Small in comparison to the trillions wasted on wars

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 8:00am

        Re: Re:

        No doubt. Or small in comparison to the money that China has stolen from us, selling their products here, but refusing to sell our products there.

        Everyone has to be in awe of President Trump this weekend - his 25% tariff on China is Brilliant!

        He wanted this tariff all along, and why not? We were a little short on money for our military, so we borrow money from China, to build our own military. That was good, right? And THEN, we Tax China @ 25% for all their goods, so we can pay back China! Wow. Now they are working for us!

        Who the hell needs Chinese rubber chickens anyway? Goods from Europe are much higher quality, even Thailand and Vietnam make better products than China. For reals, no kidding. And I’m not just talking about Pussy, either, but even that is better in Thailand than China. Anybody who understands pussy knows that.

        So we should all celebrate this week - YAY! China is paying to pay back China for our bright shiny new military toys!

        Trump is a VERY stable genius. Even you would have to admit that.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 9:24am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Trump is a VERY stable genius. Even you would have to admit that.

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG! You should have your own late night show. You're a riot.

          I mean, describing a drooling idiot as a genius! That's brilliant! Pure comedy, keep it up.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 9:27am

          his 25% tariff on China is

          …going to raise prices on goods imported from China, which means the American taxpayer will pay the tariff, not China.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Gary (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 9:31am

          Re: Re: Re:

          No doubt. Or small in comparison to the money that China has stolen from us, selling their products here, but refusing to sell our products there.

          Once again, not theft. I know yo are just parroting El Cheetos, but this is not factually correct.

          If cheap Chinese products sell well in the US, but expensive US products tank overseas - I think this is something called "Free Market."

          And a trade imbalance - not remotely theft. Taking America products and not paying - that could be theft. Not buying them or importing them in the first place? Is there even a word for that?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Bamboo Harvester (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 11:24am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            "Not buying them or importing them in the first place? Is there even a word for that?"

            "Boycott"

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Gary (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 12:07pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              That word fits. Maybe a little strong for simply buying lower priced krap.

              Is Boycott theft? Or remotely related to theft?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2019 @ 8:15am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Some locals are attempting to make boycott illegal.
                I still have not seen how this will work, will people now be forced into purchasing things they do not need nor want?

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2019 @ 7:09am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            If cheap Chinese products sell well in the US, but expensive US products tank overseas - I think this is something called "Free Market."

            There's nothing free about Chinese markets, particularly the international variety.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            ECA (profile), 13 May 2019 @ 7:49pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            you understand that 5 guys in the USA create a company, send specs to china, and have the last word on when its Right and when to sell in the USA??
            Insted of making it in the USA where he cost of materials is 4-10 times what other nations Charge..(not wages)

            I think the USA is the only country, that Marks up prices from the Stock market over 50+ times, before you can buy it.. Even with 15 sec worth of processing and Maybe 6 people who look at the food, before it get to you...That is a great markup..

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2019 @ 11:14am

          Re: Re: Re:

          satire .. no doubt

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ECA (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 9:54am

    THEY FOUND IT...

    THE OLDEST COMPUTER IN OUR GOV...MAINFRAME

    can you guess where?? The IRS..built in late 60's and still used.
    which explains allot, about why corp taxes cant be traced or figure out who got what..

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      R.H. (profile), 11 May 2019 @ 12:10pm

      Re: THEY FOUND IT...

      Yes, unfortunately, the same bill that will update the IRS's computer systems to something modern will also forbid them from providing a free filing system to the public. Also, I was unaware that they were still using the hardware from the 60's I know they're still using software that old with kludges built on top of it to support newer machines but I thought that they'd gotten rid of most of the original mainframes in the 80's and 90's.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 12 May 2019 @ 2:57am

    Yeah, but...

    If there's an agency who's job it is to inform and educate the politicians then it would be ever so very slightly more difficult for them to parrot whatever they're told to say by whoever owns them at the moment, as there would be an infinitesimal possibility that another politician who isn't bought by that particular company/group would call them out on it.

    No no, much better for all involved for them to get their information from the real experts, the companies and/or their lobbyists.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2019 @ 5:11pm

    There is a mandatory “learning” fee that increases the more they want to “learn” as well as the fee establishing the office itself. These fees may in increase.

    Did i just say that loudly?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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