Universal And Warner Block Time Live Streaming Its Time 100 Event Because Copyright Censors

from the but-filters-work,-right? dept

You know how supporters of Article 13 in the EU keep insisting that just because Article 13 (now Article 17) says not to take down non-infringing content that any worries about taking down non-infringing content are misplaced? About that... This week there's been a lot of fuss about the whole "Time 100" thing that purports to highlight the 100 most influential people in the world. This bit of backslapping among the famous starts off with glowing magazine profiles, followed by a big party, the Time 100 Gala and the Time 100 Summit, which is the conference version of the backslapping. Time Magazine livestreamed the Summit yesterday via YouTube.

As Manish Singh pointed out, it appears that both Warner Music and Universal Music Group got the video pulled on copyright grounds.

It's not clear exactly why this happened, though lots of people are talking about Taylor Swift performing, and she's now on Universal, so that's one possibility. Except she performed at that Gala, and it appears that it's the Summit that got blocked. It's possible that the venue music that likely plays in between speakers could have tripped up ContentID as well.

Either way, it's yet another demonstration of how filters are terrible at this kind of thing, and why laws like the EU Copyright Directive will inevitably lead to censorship of perfectly legal material, rather than "piracy."

Now, some will respond that under the EU Copyright Directive, YouTube may just choose to officially license all music uses, and then no longer have to block incidental uses such as this, but that highlights the other problem we've discussed: almost no one other than YouTube can do that. And thus, even if that were the case, YouTube would then become the only player anyone could ever use for livestreaming events like this if they don't want them blocked. For all the talk of how we needed the EU Copyright Directive to take down Google and Facebook's power, the fact that it might just lock them into their dominant positions seems like it should be a concern.

Filed Under: censorship, contentid, copyright, filters, live streaming
Companies: time, universal music group, warner music


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  • icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 12:04pm

    BUT THERE IS NO WAY THIS COULD HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!
    WHY DID NO ONE WARN US!!!!!!!!!!

    Perhaps its time to listen to the people who know how all of this works rather than the legacy players who are sure 1 more law will solve the problems they helped create.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 12:07pm

    All I can say is Hahahahahahaha

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 12:15pm

    Or they could have warned YouTube in advance.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Mike Masnick (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 12:44pm

      Re:

      Who warned YouTube of what, exactly?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:18pm

        Re: Re:

        One could tell Youtube, in advance, that one is going to post a video/stream that might contain some music, and that the music has been properly licensed. It seems silly but also realistic given what's happening in Europe.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:29pm

          ContentID neither knows nor cares if the music has been licensed. If it matches, it matches, regardless of context.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 4:18pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Time should get a "Get out of Content ID free card." Who else should get it? Why should they get it? Can I get it? I'd love to have one of those.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Rekrul, 25 Apr 2019 @ 6:11pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          One could tell Youtube, in advance, that one is going to post a video/stream that might contain some music, and that the music has been properly licensed. It seems silly but also realistic given what's happening in Europe.

          Just one problem with that; YouTube is completely on autopilot. There's nobody to contact. The whole thing is run by A.I. and Google has gone to great lengths to make sure you can't contact the company in any meaningful way.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      kog999, 25 Apr 2019 @ 11:49am

      Re:

      aww yes they could have just called youtube's make an exception to contentID's hotline. What was that number again.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 12:42pm

    YouTube may just choose to officially license all music uses

    Assuming that such licenses will be granted on a world wide basis, and not by some labels and in some countries.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Gary (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 12:44pm

    Licensed Music

    There is no inherent different between licensed and unlicensed music. So the automatic content ID blocked it. Why is this surprising?
    Block copyrighted works. Success.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 1:50pm

    Reading on Facebook that Universal and Warner did nothing of the kind. That YouTube did this on their own.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 1:58pm

      Re:

      Wait, you mean Mike Masnick is being intellectually dishonest again? I’m simply shocked! Shocked I say, by such an occurrence!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Rocky, 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:05pm

        Re: Re:

        Wait, you mean that you are being intellectually dishonest again? I'm simply not shocked! Not shocked I say, by such an everyday occurrence!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:06pm

      Re:

      You trust Facebook, and then expect us to trust you quoting Facebook (not that you actually quoted it, but referenced it without bothering to list cites)?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:12pm

        Re: Re:

        Not trusting Facebook, but read the article- there's no actual source that this wasn't just YouTube f***ing with the labels.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:25pm

          ContentID matches happen because the labels put their content into the ContentID database and the automated system spits out matches regardless of context. The labels (among other media conglomerates) wanted ContentID; this is the end result of their desire.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 3:24pm

            Re:

            So, it sounds like YouTube was fucking with the labels. That should end well.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 4:47pm

              YouTube did not “fuck with the labels”. If the system backfires like this, that is not YouTube’s fault; the labels asked for automated copyright claims and YouTube is giving the labels exactly what they wanted.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 5:41pm

              Re: Re:

              Because what YouTube should have done is get sued by Universal and Warner after Universal and Warner released their content to the world, just like the time Viacom sued YouTube for content Viacom put up themselves.

              You're the chucklefucks who believe that filters are God and everyone else should kiss your feet in acceptance of this "fucked if you do, fucked if you don't" scenario.

              Not only do you want carte blanche permission to rape whoever you want, you want this to be approved in law and pre-emptively bar any complaints about it.

              Seriously, get bent.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 6:50pm

                Re: Re: Re:

                Well Mike, maybe the labels should just pull everything from YouTube.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2019 @ 12:39am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Just like the Spanish and German newsgroups chose to pull out of Google News by including robots.txt in their websites, right?

                  You'd think that given your deep-seated loathing of YouTube your first priority would be to get the hell away as far as you can. Yet you don't. Now why is that?

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 12:47am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Why would the labels pull everything from YouTube? They already shut down their streaming platform to solely host their videos on YouTube because it's so lucrative for them to do that instead of running their own site.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Thad (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 7:59am

          Re: Re: Re:

          there's no actual source that this wasn't

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens_razor

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 12:22am

      Re:

      No, if there was no specific request, then what happened was that YouTube blocked the stream because the ContentID system they were essentially forced to put into place by those same labels was doing its job as they demanded.

      Even if you try putting it all on YouTube, this is still the labels getting what they said they wanted.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        FlatZOut (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 7:13am

        Re: Re:

        PaulT if the ContentID system was put in place, practically all YouTube videos would be wiped out in mere minutes, because it’s as faulty as that cringe-y Emoji movie.

        If you want to know a summary of how stupid the EU is, take a look at my comment below titled EU trying to get things right is like:

        Also how the heck do I bold/underline text in this comment section?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 7:22am

          Re: Re: Re:

          " if the ContentID system was put in place"

          It's not? What keeps flagging all these videos then?

          "Also how the heck do I bold/underline text in this comment section?"

          Click on "markdown" under the comment box for instructions.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            FlatZOut (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 10:23am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Click on “markdown” under the comment box for instructions
            Oh I see now. Thanks.

            What keeps flagging all these videos then?
            The companies that are filing the copyrights of course. That’s why there are still thousands of videos on Youtube. If Content ID/licensing filters were already put in place, YouTube won’t have any videos to display because all of our videos would be wiped out in mere minutes.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              PaulT (profile), 26 Apr 2019 @ 12:24am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "hat’s why there are still thousands of videos on Youtube"

              Hundreds of millions, actually.

              But, hey, since you're such an expert why not point to your evidence that all this is due to manual filing and not ContentID. No, your bare assertions about something silly does not suffice.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                FlatZOut (profile), 26 Apr 2019 @ 7:56am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                PaulT I’m only 19 years old, ok? I’m not as experienced as the rest of you so just bare with me. I know I make mistakes, but I try to learn from them.

                As long as my fat fingers don’t mess me up that is.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 26 Apr 2019 @ 8:07am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "I know I make mistakes, but I try to learn from them"

                  OK, no problem. Your mistake here was making some bare assertions you couldn't back up. There's plenty of evidence out there that ContentID is being used. If you have evidence to the contrary then supply it. But, don't make bare assertions and not expect to be challenged if it doesn't fit with what's already been established.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • icon
                    FlatZOut (profile), 26 Apr 2019 @ 11:57am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Right. Thanks.

                    Also PaulT what did u think of my Game Grumps reference. Ironically the comment is almost right underneath this one.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    David, 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:01pm

    Still no clue about politics?

    For all the talk of how we needed the EU Copyright Directive to take down Google and Facebook's power, the fact that it might just lock them into their dominant positions seems like it should be a concern.

    It is a time-honored tradition that the assumption of a political office or enactment of a law is to be marshalled by a celebratory essay of political fan fiction loosely related to the procurement in order to give the victims something to laugh about all the way to the bank they are not allowed to enter because it could get them thinking about withdrawing their assets.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    FlatZOut (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 2:59pm

    EU trying to get things right is like:

    So I fired again
    Then I missed, and then I missed again
    And then I fired and I fired
    And I missed. I missed both times.
    This went on for several hours
    Then I fired and I fired
    And I missed.
    I ran out of energy
    Then I became sad.
    I had a popsicle.
    I passed out in the snow.
    Then I woke up,
    And I reloaded (lobbying)
    And I fired. But I missed.
    I fired again. I hit something, but it wasn’t what I was going for (MEPs voting for the wrong thing) so I guess I missed.
    I had another popsicle.
    I reached into the fridge for another popsicle, I missed. Grabbed the cabbage. Tried to put it back, but I missed. It hit the floor.
    I reached to grab a Sprite, I Sierra Mist
    ...
    Long story short. MISSED!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      FlatZOut (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 3:01pm

      Re: EU trying to get things right is like:

      For those of you wondering, this is a Game Grumps reference

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      John85851 (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 12:09pm

      Re: EU trying to get things right is like:

      And according to the RIAA and MPAA and others, the only metric that matters is how many times you fired. Look how successful you were in taking all these shots/ issuing all those takedown notices!
      (Who cares if you missed the target/ issued takedowns for the wrong thing.)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        FlatZOut (profile), 25 Apr 2019 @ 7:49pm

        Re: Re: EU trying to get things right is like:

        True, considering I referenced a Game Grumps video called “Shot and Missed.” You should watch the video if you want to understand the reference.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 4:03pm

    who the fuck cares if its in the background, the god damn labels are morons. No one says, Hey I want to listen to Taylor Swift, rather than watching the official video that plays ads, I'm gonna watch the video of the guy working on his car in the garage while its on the little shop radio in the background, that's the best sound.

    I love how you can watch Youtube these days and never hear music in the background because all the youtubers make sure there is nothing that can get a video blocked. Its like a new reality, a world without pop music, just generic instrumentals. No dancing or having fun listening to music. Free advertising and they just pissed it away.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2019 @ 6:47pm

      Re:

      Nobody does, and yet, that's the kind of logic these assclowns operate under, up to suing. Since businesses pay for cleaning supplies and security measures to improve their business operations, obviously music coming from a free-to-air radio station or a CD that's already been paid for requires lining the pockets of record label executives.

      Because obviously the amount of oversaturated pop music over the air is clearly a major influence in whether or not I choose to visit the dentist, just like how sanitary it is or how unlikely it is to get broken into. And obviously not because I require oral hygiene maintenance; the free music is obviously why I visit.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Coyne Tibbets (profile), 24 Apr 2019 @ 7:47pm

    Moral of the story: Don't use YouTube to stream live video events. They're not set up for handling product licensing. Their only tool is an axe.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2019 @ 9:52am

    "...filters are terrible...'

    "Terrible! Yes. But great." - Ollivander

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Rekrul, 25 Apr 2019 @ 6:14pm

    Now, some will respond that under the EU Copyright Directive, YouTube may just choose to officially license all music uses, and then no longer have to block incidental uses such as this, but that highlights the other problem we've discussed: almost no one other than YouTube can do that.

    And how do they license "all" music? How did they license the song written by Bob down the street? How did they license the tune created by Stella's 10 year old granddaughter on her keyboard?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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