Failures

by Tim Cushing


Filed Under:
cia, intelligence agency, nypd



CIA: Repeat After Me. The NYPD Is NOT A REAL Intelligence Agency.

from the just-a-lowly-cop-shop dept

Given the deeply-intertwined relationship of the CIA and the New York Police Department, it just makes sense that the CIA would need to periodically remind its personnel that the NYPD isn't the sort of intelligence agency they can share US persons information with.

[T]he law limits sharing of collected information about American citizens, resident aliens and other “US persons.” As one question on the quiz highlights, the CIA cannot share such information outside the intelligence community. It’s important, then, to know which agencies are within the fold.

The National Security Agency, Coast Guard and Department of Energy qualify as “IC elements”, the latter two via their intelligence arms. As a local police force, the NYPD does not make the cut.
This comes from a CIA quiz obtained by the ACLU as part of an FOIA lawsuit. That the CIA would single out the NYPD on its test is significant. The NYPD likes to believe it's an intelligence agency on par with the FBI and CIA. Despite having zero reason to do so, the NYPD sends its officers all over the world to gather intelligence after terrorist attacks. No one has ever asked the NYPD to do this, but it continues to invite itself to various ground zeroes, where it is usually greeted with a mixture of befuddlement and anger.

The CIA, however, remains inextricably (and perhaps, willfully) entangled with the Little Intelligence Agency That Isn't. Two former CIA employees were instrumental in setting up its "Demographics Group," which engaged in pervasive surveillance of New York City Muslims. The privacy and civil liberties violations this group engaged in made the "intelligence" gleaned so toxic not even the FBI would touch it.

The CIA also expressed concerns about the gathered data -- not so much out of concern for violated rights, but because the data gathering seemed to be its own end. A senior CIA official discussed partaking in the NPYD's gathered info, but stated that the only thing "impressive" about the collection was its size, not its usefulness.

A 2011 CIA Inspector General report found that the uselessness of the data didn't stop at least one CIA employee from exploiting gaps in CIA policy to view "unfiltered" Demographics Group intelligence even though the collection contained "no clear foreign intelligence relevance."

Most likely due to relationships with the two former CIA employees heading the NYPD's Demographics Group, the CIA has made the most of its lax policies in order to work directly with this particular local law enforcement entity.
Since 2002, the CIA has assigned four officers to provide “direct assistance” to the NYPD. Their titles and duties ranged from “Special Representative to the NYPD” to training analyst on counterterrorism. An NYPD detective also received operational training at the CIA.
The undated test is likely part of CIA rule changes as a result of the IG report. What little is left unredacted deals with legal authorities related to domestic surveillance, in addition to pointing out which domestic entities the CIA can lawfully share its intelligence with. The NYPD isn't one of them, no matter how much it believes its proximity to ground zero gives it the right to rub elbows with the intelligence community's big boys.


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  • identicon
    me@me.net, 10 Jul 2015 @ 4:36am

    The more you read crap like this

    the more you realize that neither of these outfits have squat for credibility, right along with the FBI. My tax dolaars at work my ass..

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 6:30am

      Re: The more you read crap like this

      but until we start voting the turds responsible for this out, our tax dollars deserve to be wasted.

      The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results.

      When are we going to retire this two party system and vote in nothing but "independents" Even the craziest of independents are still better than a mono-toned party that whispers sweet nothings in your ear while they turn on you and only do what the leadership tells them. Independent crazy can be held back by other independent crazy, but party affiliation keeps bitches in check and against the public will!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 6:39am

        Re: Re: The more you read crap like this

        But until we start voting the (insert_here) responsible for (insert_here) out, (insert_here) deserve to be (insert_here).

        This trope is old, tired and was never applicable.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:15am

          Re: Re: Re: The more you read crap like this

          You are long lost, please just sit at home and do nothing and learn nothing just as you have been doing.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 11:03am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: The more you read crap like this

            So people who voted for the other guy deserve what the winning politician does?

            Brilliant!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 8:51am

        Re: Re: The more you read crap like this

        Until decent people start sanding for office, it is impossible to vote the turds out. The problem is that decent people refuse to work with turds, and so do not stand for office.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:18am

          Re: Re: Re: The more you read crap like this

          The problem is not that we need decent people up there, we just need to get people no beholden to a party where they plan and play with everyone's fortune.

          As a nation we can easily overcome any bullshit they push as long as we are Fully Informed Jurors, but fat chance of that, between those with defeatist attitudes and naysayers of things that they do not understand.

          This nation is an entire electorate of IGNORANCE & FAIL!

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 11:07am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: The more you read crap like this

            To quote your post:

            1) "... between those with defeatist attitudes and naysayers of things that they do not understand."

            2) "This nation is an entire electorate of IGNORANCE & FAIL!"

            Item number two indicates that you are a defeatist and a naysayer and possibly do not understand.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 4:59am

    With all that info gathering and sharing going on, one would assume that attacks could be stopped. But if they did that society would not be in constant fear and would be more resistant to having their rights removed. Oh boy - what's a modern day megalomaniac to do, it's just not as much fun as it used to be.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    avideogameplayer, 10 Jul 2015 @ 5:03am

    You know you're doing something wrong when even the CIA doesn't want to deal with you...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Groaker (profile), 10 Jul 2015 @ 5:11am

    Why not?

    The OMP just shared the files on 21.5 million people with the rest of the world. There is no reason the NYPD shouldn't have access to this information -- otherwise they would just make it up. /s

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    mcinsand, 10 Jul 2015 @ 5:18am

    Well there you have it!

    The CIA has given an answer to the age old question:

    >>A senior CIA official discussed partaking in the NPYD's
    >>gathered info, but stated that the only thing
    >>"impressive" about the collection was its size, not its
    >>usefulness.

    So, size doesn't matter; it's all in how you use it!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    DannyB (profile), 10 Jul 2015 @ 6:06am

    Please do not underestimate the importance of NYPD

    The NYPD is considered much more significant than the CIA according to a survey of doughnut shop owners.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 6:07am

    Again, this is why another holocaust can happen

    I will say this again, stuff like this is why another holocaust can happen. The minions in the various police departments, 3 letter agencies and government office have no problem spying on and persecuting any group they are told to monitor by those in charge. The Democrat led IRS has no problem targeting Republican groups. Nobody seems to have any problem going after groups of people who don't look, act or believe like they do. We are only one government order away from a holocaust and nobody seems to recognize this.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 11:13am

      Re: Again, this is why another holocaust can happen

      "The Democrat led IRS has no problem targeting Republican groups"

      Yes, this maybe true - but they also had/have no problem targeting democrats and all other groups requesting tax exempt status because that is their job. The only groups whose requests for tax exempt status were rejected were groups other than republican. But do not let this interfere with your ignorant ranting.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 6:09am

    Comment held for moderation?

    Well this is new; my comment is being held for moderation. I have never seen that here before and can only guess at what word(s) triggered this. I have used those words before so this must be new?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    TheResidentSkeptic (profile), 10 Jul 2015 @ 6:25am

    Why is it

    that our Intelligence agencies work so hard to prove they have NO intelligence? Doesn't that seem to be a core requirement?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 7:26am

    The fact is that it isn't that the CIA doesn't want to work with the NYPD, but that it is actually illegal for the CIA to work with the NYPD.

    Why the hell do NYPD officers fly around the world, monitor Muslim groups in New Jersey and operate outside of their jurisdiction? A lot of times, they are doing these things without local knowledge or permission. That, folks, is violating the law.

    A New Jersey cop is not supposed to drive into NYC with his gun without notifying NYPD. A NYPD cop is not supposed to go into NJ without notifying NJ police. Doing so is called possession of illegal weapons.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 8:28am

      Re: Possession of illegal weapons

      A New Jersey cop is not supposed to drive into NYC with his gun without notifying NYPD. A NYPD cop is not supposed to go into NJ without notifying NJ police. Doing so is called possession of illegal weapons.
      On the plus side, since it's a cop doing the posssession, he'll just be waved on once they realize they've stopped a fellow officer. At least, assuming they don't panic murder him when they mistake his ID for a cell phone - ahem, gun. Possession of illegal weapons is only actionable when it's done by little people.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 8:05am

    Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

    An intelligence arm in the Coast Guard sounds pretty sketchy already, but what the hell is Department of Energy doing that it needs an intelligence arm?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 8:29am

      Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

      All of the departments are now waging war against the party that is not in the WH. Just look at what the IRS was doing. It just recently came out that they were actively trying to help the FBI make cases against conservative groups. The fact that Democrats don't seem to mind is only going to allow the Republicans to do the same thing to the Democrats the next time they get the WH.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 11:16am

        Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

        Keep watching fox news, it really helps your understanding of these complex times /s

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 8:54am

      Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

      The DOE has responsibility for civilian nuclear facilities. Nuclear terrorism is a real possibility, and thus they need to share information on any such threat. If you've heard of N.E.S.T. they are owned by DOE (at least last that I know).

      And if you haven't heard of N.E.S.T.: be thankful they haven't been used for real. (at least as far as I know.)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:14am

        Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

        Nuclear terrorism
        Also counter-proliferation.

        In addition, they provide technical advice on arms reduction and control.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:15am

        Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

        I'll grant that someone needs to deal with the counter-intelligence aspects of potential nuclear terrorism, but it seems to me that this is another case of every agency wanting its own law enforcement arm, its own intelligence arm, etc. instead of concentrating on its core mission (and leaving law enforcement/intelligence to an agency trained in properly shirking that duty, such as the FBI).

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:18am

          Re: Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

          ... concentrating on its core mission...
          Site security at certain facilities requires physics training.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:26am

          Re: Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

          ... concentrating on its core mission...
          DoE's core mission was originally to move the administration of the Manhattan Engineer District, Hanford Engineer Works, Clinton Engineer Works (Oak Ridge), et cetera, out from under the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and into civilian hands.

          Do you think the Army should be running the national labs?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 10:15am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

            Do you think the Army should be running the national labs?

            Where did anyone in this thread advocate that? GP is arguing that we do not need every single government agency to have its own law enforcement division.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 10:20am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

              ... every single government agency...
              DoE is not “every single government agency”.

              It is a specific cabinet-level department of the government, whose overall purpose is to preserve National Command Authority over our strategic deterrent.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 10:56am

                Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

                ... every single government agency...

                DoE is not “every single government agency”.

                Of course the Department of Energy is not “every single government agency”. It is clearly one Department, hence the name. However, its presence in this discussion demonstrates the larger point: government agencies that maintain their own redundant law enforcement groups for questionable purposes.

                If you're going to keep quoting fragments of a post just so you can attack your chosen fragment, there is no point in continuing to respond to you.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 9:08am

      Re: Department of Energy is an allowed partner?

      ... what the hell is Department of Energy doing that it needs an intelligence arm?
      nnsa.energy.gov (DoE)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 11:03am

    ... there is no point in continuing to respond to you.
    Sayonara.
     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2015 @ 2:34pm

    The NYPD wants to become a governmental letter agency with all the freedoms and power to do as it wishes without any oversight.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Groaker (profile), 10 Jul 2015 @ 7:27pm

      Re:

      |What makes you think that the agencies are working hard at |this, and not just showing their natural faculties?

      It already pretty much is. The NYPD has offices all over the world.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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