Ridiculous Ruling In Ireland Requires ISP To Kick Those Accused (Not Convicted) Of File Sharing Off The Internet

from the because-piracy! dept

There just seems to be something about the way that some people's brains function (or not) when the word "piracy" is introduced. Over in Ireland, there's been an incredibly long running battle over whether or not internet access providers need to kick people off the internet if they've been accused (not convicted) of file sharing three times. Such "three strikes" rules have been put in place in a few countries, and the evidence shows that they don't work at all. Not even in the slightest. They don't slow down the rates of piracy for any extended period of time (sometimes they show a very brief drop before people figure out other ways). They certainly don't lead more people to buy content. France, famously, led the way with the very first three strikes law, which the country has already dropped.

Over in Ireland, the fight over three strikes has been going on for nearly a decade. Back in 2008, the recording industry sued Eircom, the large Irish ISP, claiming that the company was required by law to implement a three strikes regime. Eventually, in an effort to avoid legal costs, Eircom caved and agreed to implement a three strikes plan, but with a condition: the recording industry also had to pressure competing ISPs to implement a similar plan so that Eircom customers didn't go fleeing. The recording industry did just that. The ISPs pushed back and seemed to be vindicated when the Irish Data Protection Commission ruled that a three strikes plan violated consumer privacy, and Irish judges found no legal basis for such rules.

Of course, the recording industry fought back, and a court flat out rejected the Data Protection Commission's findings, and insisted there wasn't any privacy issue at all with three strikes.

And, thus, we get back to the lawsuits against ISPs with a judge now ruling against ISP UPC and making some rather astounding statements in the process. The judge, Brian Cregan, appears to have become a true believer in the myths that the recording industry is spreading, and to him "piracy" seems to justify any and all punishment, without any clear concern as to whether or not anyone's actually broken the law, or whether or not three strikes plans even work. These quotes are fairly astounding:
Mr Justice Cregan said that there was "wholesale theft" taking place on the UPC network. He said that the constitutional rights of "a whole class of persons are not just being infringed but are being destroyed". The downloading of music for free is destroying the intellectual property rights of creative artists and should be a matter of great concern in any civilised society, he said.
Except, that's not true. Copyright infringement and "theft" are two separate (and very different) things. And, no constitutional rights are "being destroyed" at all. If someone's rights are being harmed via copyright infringement, those individuals or companies have every right to bring legal cases against those who are the ones actually engaging in infringement. Arguing that ISPs should automatically cut people off of the entire internet based merely on accusations (that have a long history of not being accurate) would seem to be "destroying" the due process rights of many more people than any copyright infringement. Besides, I would also think that "a matter of great concern to any civilized society" would be things like "due process" and better enabling communications and access to information for all -- like the internet does. But, no. If you happen to download a song you like without paying for it, apparently you should be barred from the internet.
"The current generation of writers, performers and interpreters of music cannot have their livelihoods destroyed by advances in technology which allow persons to breach their constitutional rights with impunity.”
Two points on this. Any realistic look at "the current generation of writers, performers and interpreters of music" would recognize that it is an amazing time to be a creative person because of the internet. Thanks to the internet, artists no longer are solely reliant on giant gatekeepers to pick them out of everyone else. Instead, they can use these platforms to create, to connect with fans, to promote, to distribute and to monetize their works. More words are being written, more videos are being filmed and more music is being recorded today than any time in history. It's difficult to see how one can possibly square that reality with this fantasy world of Judge Cregan's in which he believes that writers, performers and musicians are in trouble.

The reality is that it's merely the business models of the old gatekeepers that have been challenged. But that is the nature of the free market. If you cannot keep up with the changing times, you go out of business. But Cregan has apparently decided that the world should always look like it did briefly in the 1980s, and the internet upsets all of that, so clearly, it's the internet that should go.

Not only did Judge Cregan decide that UPC needs to put in place a three strikes plan, but that it should have to cover most of the costs itself, apparently blaming the technology itself for the struggles of the legacy recording industry:
Mr Justice Cregan said the cost of setting up this system had been put at between €800,000 and €940,000, three-quarters of which UPC had argued should be paid for by the music companies.

The judge said however given the music companies' constitutional rights "are being destroyed" by UPC's customers, he believed UPC should pay 80 per cent and the music companies the rest.
Cregan is apparently so sure of himself on this issue -- despite what appears to be an astounding confusion over what's actually happening in the world, that he further rejected UPC's argument that this is a matter for the legislature, not the courts. Instead, Cregan seems to believe that the courts can magically will into place a new regulation kicking people off the internet. He further rejected requests to refer this matter to the European Court of Justice, insisting that his interpretation of the law is plenty.

It is one thing to argue that a three strikes rule makes sense (despite all of the real world evidence to the contrary). But it is quite bizarre to then justify it based on additional claims about the state of creators today that are simply false. Is this how the Irish judicial system really works? Based on fairy tales and what the judge believes, rather than facts?

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:33am

    Banning people from the Internet for accusation of piracy makes as much sense as banning people from using the roads for accusation real theft.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Baron von Robber, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:38am

    Suddenly, sign ups for VPNs for those in Ireland go up 1000%.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:39am

    Banning people...

    And we should ban people from living whenever they're accused of rape or murder... no need to convict, an accusation should be enough.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Baron von Robber, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:41am

    Next, the RIAA/MPAA draft a new tax law for all foreigners living abroad.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:42am

    Step 1. Find out which ISPs the copyright cartel's local Ireland branch use.
    Step 2. Complain about downloading things illegally.
    Step 3. Rules are rescinded. Or amended. Probably the latter.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:45am

    "business models of the old gatekeepers that have been challenged"

    Like wanting to be paid by those consuming your products.

    Advertising support won't work for movies as does for websites. Even Youtube isn't getting much.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 2:22am

      Re: "business models of the old gatekeepers that have been challenged"

      Well if you cannot sell your product for more than you are producing it for you either need to produce it for less (ie cut your costs) or close up shop.

      Its simple economics.

      As an industry the Movie and Music companies are now competing with much more than in the 80s. They need to modernise their business models to compete.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Apr 2015 @ 5:29am

      Re: "business models of the old gatekeepers that have been challenged"

      Getting your content pre-paid by starting a fundraiser for it on a crowdfunding platform would solve the problem of getting it paid for. As would making some kind of deal with streaming platforms for a share of the revenue. Think outside of the box; why would people want to pay for this? Who are these people and how can you convince them to part with their money? Amanda Palmer manages it.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    bob, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:46am

    Why?!?

    Because if you are not my customer than I will make it harder for you to be anyone else's customer!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:48am

    takes two to "engage"

    "against those who are the ones actually engaging in infringement"

    one party being the downloader

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 2:43am

      Re: takes two to "engage"

      So take them to court and offer them the chance to defend themselves. Do not just cut them off the internet on an accusation.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:51am

    What a surprise. Techdirt upset when piracy even criticized.

    In other news, it's Monday.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Just Another Anonymous Troll, 30 Mar 2015 @ 1:58pm

      Re: What a surprise. Techdirt upset when piracy even criticized.

      What a surprise. Techdirt upset when people are booted off the Internet just because the music industry thinks they're pirates
      FTFY

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:51pm

      Re: What a surprise. Techdirt upset when piracy even criticized.

      YOU FILTHY PIRATE, GET OFF THE INTERNET

      NO I DON'T NEED TO SHOW ANY EVIDENCE, MY ACCUSATION IS ENOUGH

      THROW YOUR COMPUTER OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT THIS INSTANT, YOUNG MAN! IF YOU EVEN HAVE A WINDOW IN YOUR MOTHER'S BASEMENT!!!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:53pm

        Alternatively:

        What I'm saying here is that anyone could use this to destroy the constitutional rights of anyone else. If you don't want to SWAT someone to interrupt their life, you can just send a message to their ISP, along with a couple more over the next week from apparently different people, and get their Internet unhooked with no possibility of appeal or logic.

        If you honestly believe that this is a good thing, then what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read, and everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 12:02am

        And before anyone misunderstands it:

        The bit about 'mother's basement' is actual copyright maximalist rhetoric: that anyone who opposes them is just a basement-dwelling troll and not worth considering.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:08am

    Didn't the EU rule that ISPs couldn't disconnect people?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:10am

    the saying has always been 'as thick as the Irish'! it seems that it doesn't only apply to the ordinary people. the upper crust ones are guilty of being just as stupid!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:12am

    let me guess the large bribes he gets convinces him of the validity in the arguments for this opposed to whatever oaths he took to remain uncorrupted as a judge.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:17am

    Some call themselves pirates.

    "There just seems to be something about the way that some people's brains function (or not) when the word "piracy" is introduced."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:20am

      Re: Some call themselves pirates.

      Get the github version of Random Agent Spoofer with time zone and screen size spoofing.

      Because Masnick DOES censor. And has it tuned pretty well!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:31am

        Re: Re: Some call themselves pirates.

        You say censorship, others say comment moderation. The fact that Techdirt continues to not require a validated login to comment makes it more permissive of dissenting speech than most media sites (if they even still allow comments). How many of your precious industry sites even allow comments, much less anonymous and/or dissenting comments? Bitching about "censorship" on a wide open forum because comment moderation and community voting to hide useless comments makes your trolling less pervasive is like complaining that women don't let you rape them.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          That One Guy (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:36am

          Re: Re: Re: Some call themselves pirates.

          Really? You were doing so well there, and then that last line... it's bad enough that the maximalists bring up rape and murder and slavery and act like copyright infringement is just as bad as the above, you really don't need to follow their example.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:51am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Some call themselves pirates.

            I'm not saying it's equivalent in severity. It just gets the point across more succinctly than not using a simile. I could have said, "you don't have Constitutionally protected rights to free speech on a private website, so complaining that you have to jump through hoops in order to abuse the comparatively tolerant forum, the community members, and its host is absurd, ironic, and sociopathic."

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 12:52am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Some call themselves pirates.

            Well it kind of is:
            1) It could be argued that novel, innovative distribution models (like Netflix was when it started) "rape" the media companies' current business models.

            2) For the media companies willing to adapt, it "enslaves" their business model to the consumer's needs.

            3) For those companies unwilling to adapt, it "murders" their business model (even though it's more akin to "suicide" at this point).

            So there you have it: "rape", "murder" and "slavery". /s

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 5:38pm

        Re: Re:

        You realize spoofing means you've broken the law according to anti-pirates?

        Figures that antipiracy types have to break the law to get anything done.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        McCrea (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 8:45pm

        Re: Re: Some call themselves pirates.

        I'm just a data propagator.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Mason Wheeler (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:28am

    He further rejected requests to refer this matter to the European Court of Justice, insisting that his interpretation of the law is plenty.

    Wait... he can do that?!?

    In the US at least, it's not a judge's prerogative to decide whether or not his decision should be appealed to a higher court; that's up to the parties involved. You would sorta think it would work the same way in the EU, but... apparently not?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    avideogameplayer, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:29am

    This is the same country that still believes in leprechauns...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:33am

    What constitutional right would that be again?

    "The current generation of writers, performers and interpreters of music cannot have their livelihoods destroyed by advances in technology which allow persons to breach their constitutional rights with impunity.”

    If one person, or even many people, pirate a particular song, or book, or movie, then other people are still free to buy that song/book/movie. Other people are still free to listen/read/watch.

    Nothing about piracy stops that. One person's copyright infringement does not, in any way, stop another person from paying or getting something the 'legitimate' way.

    As such, the only way that he could claim that piracy is 'destroying constitutional rights', is if he thinks that people have a constitutional right to be paid for each and every single use of their creation(or, as I'm sure is the majority of the cases, the creation of some poor sod that has signed their rights to you). A 'constitutional right to profit' basically, something I'm surprised that another country managed to beat the US to.

    He further rejected requests to refer this matter to the European Court of Justice, insisting that his interpretation of the law is plenty.

    Yeah, given they would probably stomp this ruling flat both because if you want to punish someone it's generally required to actually prove guilt first, and because the internet is vital enough these days kicking someone off it would be like shutting off their water or electricity, I don't imagine he would be too happy to have another judge show how wrong he is here.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 7:37am

      Re: What constitutional right would that be again?

      Then again, they already want to be able to shut off our water

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 5:52pm

        Re: Re: What constitutional right would that be again?

        "Then again, they already want to be able to shut off our water"

        Or, if they're in a hurry, they can just compress your chest to shut off your air.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 11:40am

    this guy is exactly why people go judge shopping. Eventually you find some idiot who should not be a judge who just makes stuff up. Copyright is not a constitutional right lol

    Maybe in his small pea brain it is but it has no basis in reality just like his little ruling will not have an adverse affect on anything. Old people who don't understand the internet are really becoming a problem.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    mcinsand, 30 Mar 2015 @ 12:07pm

    constitutionally-protected rights

    >>He said that the constitutional rights of "a whole class
    >>of persons are not just being infringed but are being
    >>destroyed".

    I will agree with one of Cregan's sentences, if not the way he was trying to use it. Yes, plaintiffs have constitutionally-protected rights, but defendants also have protected rights to due process, and he is working to destroy those rights of that entire class.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Emil Isanov, 30 Mar 2015 @ 12:15pm

    Malicious Targeting

    Personally, I'm less concerned with constitutional rights being violated as much as I am with the direct abuse of this system to deliberately target certain websites and businesses. One website, for example, may provide advance reviews of pop culture products such as music, movies, and books. If the reviews are consistently bad to the point where the company putting out the products believes that their business is being harmed by the reviewer, they could easily just accuse the reviewer of piracy and have their site taken down. A system like this directly encourages abuse.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 12:16pm

    This shows me that some people buy their degree, have others take their tests in school all to get a cushy job. There is no way this person actually went to law school, yes he got the degree but I bet he was not the student in the class taking the tests or writing his own papers. I am sure if you look hard you will find many 12 year olds with a better understanding of the law than this so called judge.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 12:41pm

    > The judge said however given the music companies' constitutional rights "are being destroyed" by UPC's customers,

    Just to be fair, we're talking about the IRISH constitution, not the US one. Maybe their rights have a lower proof than ours?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Peter (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 1:19pm

    Is there any truth in rumors that a certain justices car has been seen suspiciously close to areas where drug dealing is taking place? That his bank account and credit cards may have been used for money laundering?
    Perhaps his access to his car & money should be restricted until he can prove his innocence? Just to be on the safe side, no accusation of wrongdoing implied.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 1:45pm

    Funny, when I think of pirates

    I think of the last refuge of social misfits amd crime-on-crime or crime-on-superdiskish-business practices (a la the predation on the Spanish Silver Train, or oyster pirates selling fish outside the licensed cartels).

    This is before we get to Robert Newton's captivating interpretation of Long John Silver in classic cinema.

    Funny how media piracy falls into the same category, given that the predation is less on artists and more on the gatekeepers who are renowned for mistreating artists anyway.

    Yar-har and fiddle-dee-dee...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Gothenem (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 3:05pm

    I got the answer

    So, the answer is, fight back with their own laws.

    What you need:

    1. Find every Irish IP rights organization.
    2. Get two buddies.

    Now, you and your two buddies all file copyright infringement claims against the rights organizations.

    Sure, the organizations can get the courts to overturn it, but how long will they be without internet? Yep, accuse the rights organizations of copyright infringement and get THEM disconnected from the Internet.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 3:41pm

    Piracy isn't a part of a free market.

    Normally I'd say this was a fail on the part of the writer, but Mike Masnick has a degree in economics so he's simply being duplicitous.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 4:20pm

      Re:

      Does it exist? Is it ever going away?

      Given the answers to the above are 'yes' and 'no' respectively, it absolutely is a factor in the market, and the sooner these parasites realize this the better off everyone will be.

      Legal or not, piracy is very much a part of the market.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Zonker, 30 Mar 2015 @ 3:50pm

    Brian Cregan downloads infringing copies of music on the internet.
    Brian Cregan downloads infringing copies of music on the internet.
    Brian Cregan downloads infringing copies of music on the internet.

    There, now when can I expect Brian Cregan's ISP to kick him off of the internet?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 4:03pm

    There's a lot of commenters here who don't like pirates.

    If any of you are artists, let me know who you are.

    That way, you see, I can avoid viewing your work.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 4:47pm

      Re: There's a lot of commenters here who don't like pirates.

      Artists don't lose anything by pirates avoiding their work. So yeah, go right ahead and fuck off, douchenozzle.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Uriel-238 (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 5:27pm

        And you speak for which artist?

        Because, Anonymous Coward, your eloquence and wit have positively stunned me with their brilliance.

        Oh, do elaborate.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 30 Mar 2015 @ 5:37pm

        Re: Re: There's a lot of commenters here who don't like pirates.

        A pirate isn't buying from you now, but if your work interests him/her enough, they may in the future.

        Someone who purposely avoids your work, whether it be due to the fact that your creations are crap according to them, or because you yourself are the kind of person they want to avoid giving money and/or attention to is never going to buy from you, at least if they can avoid it.

        See the difference?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 5:37pm

        Re: Re: There's a lot of commenters here who don't like pirates.

        Hi. You're being accused of piracy. Now get off the Internet.

        As an "artist" you certainly wouldn't disagree.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2015 @ 10:06pm

    Is this how the Irish judicial system really works? Based on fairy tales and what the judge believes, rather than facts?

    Living in Ireland for the past 8 years, I can report that by and large the Irish "justice" system usually doesn't work this way. It is actually much, much, worse.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2015 @ 3:03am

      Re: Is this how the Irish judicial system really works? Based on fairy tales and what the judge believes, rather than facts?

      I love the story about Irelands worst driver named Prawo Jazdy ("Drivers Licence" in Polish ;-))

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Wendy Cockcroft, 1 Apr 2015 @ 5:26am

    Is this how the Irish judicial system really works? Based on fairy tales and what the judge believes, rather than facts?

    Irish woman here — don't get me started. I'm so embarrassed by this, it's as bad as the law firm charging for linking to their website.

    The trouble is, we're sort of conditioned to accept authority from an early age and it's a very religious country. That's why all the content industry lobbyists have to do is yell "Stop the thieves!" to get what they want. Once the politicians and judges have been convinced that they're obeying a moral imperative, there's no chance of getting them to listen to reason.

    That's why the notion of copyright as property is so pernicious. Until we take control of the narrative and convince people otherwise they will continue to genuinely think they are consuming other people's property every time they experience content.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    John85851 (profile), 1 Apr 2015 @ 11:23am

    What do we know about this judge?

    It seems to me that a case like this proves that the judge is either 70 years old, out of touch with the electronic world, or both.
    There's no reasonable explanation for kicking anyone off of anything just because they're accused of something. What ever happened to due process of law? If someone is accused of illegally downloading files, then provide proof in a court of law, find him guilty, and then punish him.

    Does Ireland have any kind of constitutional right to due process? If so, who's going to be the first lawyer to challenge this judge's decision?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Apr 2015 @ 11:29am

    The war on copying.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Apr 2015 @ 11:30am

    Internet > copyright

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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