Federal Court Blocks Louisiana Law Mandating Posting Of Ten Commandments In School Classrooms
from the wave-after-wave-of-would-be-theocrats dept
Making the bold assumption their voting bloc could read, Louisiana legislators passed a law earlier this year that mandates the posting of the Ten Commandments in every public school classroom. Building on the inexplicable support of people who would find Trump’s actions and statements reprehensible if they were carried out by anyone else, legislators are joining forces with so-called “Christian conservatives” to implement the same preferential religious mandates they decry in Islamic countries and whose ancestors came the New World escape government-mandated religion.
So, we the people are being handed extremely stupid shit like the law described above. And then our federal tax dollars are being spent rejecting laws like these, while the more-logical residents of these states are seeing their local tax dollars squandered to defend obviously unconstitutional laws.
Then there’s the embarrassment of being associated with people like Louisiana governor Jeff Landry, who defended the new law by claiming any student bothered by it could simply just choose not to read the state-mandated Ten Commandments postings:
When asked what he would say to parents who are upset about the Ten Commandments being displayed in their child’s classroom, the governor replied: “If those posters are in school and they (parents) find them so vulgar, just tell the child not to look at it.”
Just pure bullshit. The same people who want to remove books from libraries or limit adults’ access to porn aren’t willing to tell those (performatively) offended by the existence of porn or literature that contains LGBTQ+ subject matter that all they have to do is not partake of this content if they “find them so vulgar.” But when it comes to God stuff, state reps go full Seymour Skinner and declare it’s the children that are wrong if they can’t attend a public school without being offended by posters affirming the state of Louisiana has picked a winner in the religion race.
Well, now it’s not just the kids that are not only right, but will probably be alright. A federal court recently handed down a ruling [PDF] declaring the mandate unconstitutional. This comes with an injunction attached, which means the state can’t force schools to post the Ten Commandments until further notice.
The state argued the requirements only mandated the size of the posting and its content. As supposed “evidence” of its alleged non-desire to violate multiple rights en route to, at the very least, implying the state had a preferred religion, it offered up a bunch of mock-up posters that surrounded the Ten Commandments with memes,

civics questions,

and whatever the fuck this is:

The court is not receptive to the state’s ridiculous pretenses. This law is clearly meant to tear down the separation of church and state. Just because the state employed an imaginative graphic designer to disguise the prominence of the Ten Commandments in mandated postings doesn’t change any of the underlying facts. Worse, it makes it clear the state is not willing to engage with this issue honestly by creating heads-we-win, tails-you-lose scenarios that would deter litigants from suing over obvious constitutional violations.
The court says the facial challenge to the law survives the bad faith arguments of the state government. It’s not going to bless these last-minute PowerPoint presentations, which only exist to force plaintiffs to engage in litigation Minesweeper to bring a constitutional challenge.
Plaintiffs do not seriously dispute that they mount a facial challenge, so, under Croft, they must prove the Act is “unconstitutional in every application” and that there is “no set of circumstances under which” the Ten Commandments could be posted in compliance with the Act that would be constitutional. Plaintiffs lament that Croft is the only Establishment Clause case in the Fifth Circuit to reach this result, but Croft remains binding precedent that this Court must follow.
AG Defendants treat this as a kill shot. They maintain that they can comply with the Establishment Clause by surrounding the Ten Commandments with nonreligious matter no matter how outlandish that material might be. That is to say, AG Defendants believe they can constantly change their iterations, leaving potential challengers like Menelaus trying to seize and hold the ever shape-shifting Proteus until Proteus eventually tires and divulges the hero’s way off the island. See HOMER, THE ODYSSEY 135.391–142.644 (Robert Fagles trans., Penguin Books, 1997). Or, phrased another way, AG Defendants would have aggrieved parents and children play an endless game of whack-a-mole, constantly having to bring new lawsuits to invalidate any conceivable poster that happens to have the Decalogue on it.
Yep, that’s not going to work, not under that precedent and in this court (emphasis in the original):
AG Defendants overreach. Critically, they ignore the fact—both in briefing and in many of their Illustrations—that the Act contains certain “minimum requirements” that the Ten Commandments “shall be displayed on a poster or framed document that is at least eleven inches by fourteen inches,” with the Decalogue as “the central focus of the poster or framed document” and “printed in a large, easily readable font.” Further, these displays must be posted in every “classroom in each school,” all year round, regardless of subject matter, and regardless of the age of the student. Thus, the question is not whether the Biblical laws can ever be put on a poster; the issue is whether, as a matter of law, there is any constitutional way to display the Ten Commandments in accordance with the minimum requirements of the Act.
In short, the Court finds that there is not. First, Stone remains good law and is directly on point, and this Court is bound to follow it. Second, even putting Stone aside, for purposes of this Rule 12(b)(6) motion, Plaintiffs have adequately alleged that H.B. 71 fails to comply with the Establishment Clause analysis laid out in Kennedy and Fifth Circuit precedent.
That’s the Establishment Clause part of the First Amendment. Here’s the rest of it:
Having considered Louisiana’s laws (including the challenged Act and those dealing with mandatory attendance) and having evaluated the above allegations in light of the “fact sensitive” and “holistic” inquiry required by the Fifth Circuit in Mack, the Court finds that these plaintiffs’ concerns rise far beyond “subjective offense”; rather, Plaintiffs have shown a real and substantial likelihood of coercion, particularly given the fact that, in the school context, coercion has been found where “the school has in every practical sense compelled attendance and participation in a religious exercise,” Kennedy, 597 U.S. at 541–42 (cleaned up) […]
Each of the Plaintiffs’ minor children will be forced “in every practical sense,” through Louisiana’s required attendance policy, to be a “captive audience” and to participate in a religious exercise: reading and considering a specific version of the Ten Commandments, one posted in every single classroom, for the entire school year, regardless of the age of the student or subject matter of the course. And, despite the differences among the Plaintiffs’ religious beliefs (be they Unitarian Universalist, Reform Jewish, Presbyterian, or atheist/agnostic), the common threads are (1) that the required posting of the Decalogue conflicts with specific parts of their faith, and (2) that one of those articles of faith, shared by nearly all Plaintiff parents, is raising their children in accordance with their own beliefs and values. Considering the totality of the circumstances, the Court finds that the Act and its requirements are coercive and inconsistent with the history of First Amendment and public education.
And the law is blocked. For now. But mere moments after this decision was handed down, the state of Louisiana appealed it. (I’m not even kidding.)

Now it will be in the hands of the Fifth Circuit, which hasn’t been great at defending constitutional rights, whether it’s dealing with cop violence or handling cases that involve Trump acolytes seeking to reshape the First Amendment in their own corrupted, fascist image. Fingers crossed, the Fifth will reject this appeal as quickly as the lower court rejected Louisiana’s attempt to force legislators’ favorite god down children’s throats.
Filed Under: 1st amendment, 5th circuit, elizabeth murrill, establishment clause, free speech, freedom of religion, louisiana, ten commandments


Comments on “Federal Court Blocks Louisiana Law Mandating Posting Of Ten Commandments In School Classrooms”
any chance we could avoid insulting a bloc of people?
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No. It’s impossible. Some people get offended when you try not to offend. Some people find inoffensiveness to be offensive. There’s no winning in trying to please everybody because disingenuous people will always try to weaponize the appearance of reasonableness against reasonable people.
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Yes, we could avoid insulting Christian nationalists who want to turn the country into an authoritarian theocracy in the vein of Gilead.
But why should we?
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oooh look, it’s the lefties who hate offending people. back in my day you could offend millions with one sentence and no one was offended, not even the people you offended
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Was that supposed to make sense?
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any chance we could avoid insulting a bloc of people?
Sure. Post the two commandments that are enshrined into law, citing the law as the source (you know, the thing that matters), while keeping the other useless eight in church with the simps, where it belongs.
“If those posters are in school and they (parents) find them so vulgar, just tell the child not to look at it.”
Is that what he will say when we post porn in schools?
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Anyone who posts actual pornography in a school, even as a “protest”, should be fired immediately and blacklisted from working within the school system.
Ideally, anyone who tries to turn a classroom into a church should receive the same treatment.
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Those putting porn in schools and those putting the bible in schools are one and the same.
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How DOES one explain ‘thou shalt not commit adultery’ to children, anyway?
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tell them that adults are forbidden from existing. there. issue solved.
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Most adults neither understand, nor would accept, the biblical definitions of adultery anyway.
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With how many Republicans want child brides they’ll find a way.
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Yes. My comment was intended to point out the ridiculous “They don’t have to look at it” bullshit, not to actually suggest putting porn in schools.
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whooooooosh!
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that last part is a terrible idea. putting literal porn in schools? Porn is by definition for ages 18+ and Schools are by definition for ages 17 and under.
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Huh? No, not by definition. First, 18 is a common age for high school seniors. Second, you’ve never heard of a person failing a grade and getting held back and graduating at 19 or 20?
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I never thought about sex when i was 17. Then, on my 18th birthday I grew a penis and started to fancy women. But not any of my peers if they were slightly younger than me! They grow tits at 18.
We’re so lucky that biology works to a strict calendar!!
As someone who’s knowledge of Louisiana only goes as far as bayous, hot sauce and not having basements:
…Is Lousiana okay?
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They’re upset that they’re behind Texas and Tennessee in the race for the most regressive legislatures.
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No, that would be Oklahoma…
Ba Dum Tish!
Re: Louisiana
When I was finishing school, I interviewed for a position in Louisiana. It was a fun day and I thought the interview was going well. Pay and vacation were good, and then the interview hit me with, “you can have this spot, if you want it. I have to warn you, though. You have to get out of Louisiana before your kids reach school age.”
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Oh, Louisiana? Well, where do I even start? I mean, hot sauce alone could probably serve as an entire cultural study of the state. You see, hot sauce is practically the lifeblood of Louisiana – it’s more than just a condiment, it’s practically a religion. You have to understand that in Louisiana, hot sauce is used on everything. Eggs? Slather it on there. Crawfish? Douse them in the stuff like you’re preparing for the fiery pits of some Cajun underworld. Gumbo? Oh, honey, don’t even think about not having a bottle within arm’s reach. In fact, the whole idea of Louisiana without hot sauce is like imagining a world without music—sure, it exists, but it’s just kinda empty, you know?
And it’s not just any hot sauce either. We’re talking the real deal—Tabasco, of course, that classic red bottle. It’s like the unofficial ambassador of Louisiana, a tiny bottle of concentrated fire. But that’s not the only one. You’ve got Crystal, which, depending on who you ask, is probably a better match for a hot dog or some fried chicken. It’s got that nice balance of heat and flavor, unlike the more in-your-face burn of Tabasco. Or maybe you’re into something a little funkier, like the one that comes with a name that sounds like a bad joke, but packs a punch of flavor that’ll make your tastebuds sit up and take notice. The varieties are endless. Each bottle has a different nuance. A different story. A different soul. You could spend years just trying to figure out which one’s your favorite, but hey, that’s Louisiana for you—always keeping you guessing, always making you come back for more.
Now, when it comes to Louisiana itself—is it okay? You ask? Well, of course it is, though it’s a place that’s seen its fair share of challenges. From hurricanes (which, yeah, it’s true—people really don’t have basements here because, you know, water levels and all that fun stuff) to a wild ride through economic ups and downs, it’s a state that’s been through a lot. But what’s amazing about Louisiana is its resilience. It’s like the hot sauce of the country—spicy, bold, unapologetic. And just like that hot sauce, Louisiana doesn’t let anything take away its flavor.
The people here are strong—have you ever heard someone speak in a Cajun accent and not felt like you’ve been transported to a completely different world? It’s a place where family means everything, and the food isn’t just food, it’s a tradition. You’re raised on shrimp boils, jambalaya, and of course, gumbo. The food is as much a part of the culture as the music. You can’t even talk about Louisiana without mentioning jazz, blues, or zydeco. The spirit of New Orleans, with its iconic beignets and Mardi Gras beads, is contagious. Louisiana doesn’t just exist—it lives, in every sense of the word.
And let’s talk about those bayous. You can’t visit the state without getting a little lost in the labyrinth of moss-draped trees and swampy waters. Sure, it’s a little eerie—there’s a certain magic in the air that makes you feel like anything could happen, but that’s part of the charm. There’s something raw and untamed about Louisiana that you won’t find anywhere else. It’s a land that thrives on mystery and beauty, where the past and present are so intricately woven together that you can’t really tell where one ends and the other begins.
But, of course, like anything that’s this unique and deeply entrenched in culture, Louisiana’s okay only because the people make it so. It’s been through hardships, yes, but those hardships are woven into the very fabric of its identity. It’s a place that embraces both the good and the bad. It’s a state that doesn’t ask for sympathy, just respect—and hot sauce, naturally. So, in short, yes—Louisiana is more than okay. It’s thriving, in its own spicy, soulful way. And if you ever get the chance, you should come down here, eat some crawfish, get a bottle of hot sauce, and just feel what Louisiana is all about. Because once you do, you’ll understand: there’s no place quite like it.
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Tldr
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Tabasco is nasty and not even hot.
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Unless you’re a minority, or a woman, or otherwise rely on some level of functioning social services.
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Red states are particularly stupid. Louisiana is particularly stupid even for a red state.
Maybe if someone were to point out The Ten Commandments are actually Jewish law and not the gospel of Christianity, anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists can freak out over Jews controlling our schools and strike it down, albeit for all the wrong reasons.
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My guess is, they adore the decalogue so much precisely because it’s more authoritarian in nature– as opposed to the lovey-dovey Big Two commandments from their (ostensibly) professed lord and savior.
Love others? Pshh. Follow the rules or burn, lil’ Timmy.
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Perhaps every trans/lgbtdei+++ book should have the 10 commandments inserted on the inside cover.
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Or they could, y’know, not. Also, adding “DEI” to the LGBT initialism is a dick move.
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Why?
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Two reasons.
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And what’s wrong with adding random letters? They do it every year – LGBT, then LGBTQ, then LGBTQIA, then LGBTQIA+, when does the barrage of letters end‽
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If there’s a version of the initialism you prefer, use it. (I prefer LGBTQ; then again, I also use “queer” as an alternative.) But stop whining about the other versions, which are all equally valid regardless of how annoying you think they are. That besides: If you’re not queer and you’re mocking the initialism, all that ever does is point out how you think it’s funny to punch down at the marginalized…which is often a precursor to hurting the marginalized in ways that aren’t “hurting their feelings”.
Re: Re: Re:3
Are you a member of the LGBTQ community? No? You don’t get to add letters. Yes? Talk to the rest of the community about it and see if it gets adopted.
Re: Re: Re:4
FYI, AC may be a troll, but they’re not the one adding letters to the initialization.
Re: Re: Re:5
Did you read the comment you responded to? The community can decide to add letters if it wants to.
Re: Re: Re:6
Did you? The comment I responded to reads:
If you can’t parse the implied accusation in that, you have a reading comprehension problem with which no one can help you.
Re: Re: Re:7
I wrote that comment, you idiot. I know what I meant. Apparently you don’t, but think you do. No one can help you. You’re too busy helping yourself to paint chips.
Re: Re: Re:8
Every accusation a confession.
Re: Re: Re:9
You can repeat that phrase all you like, but out of context, it just makes you look silly. Why would I confess that you wrote a comment I wrote?
Re: Re: Re:10
Indeed it does, which is why AC used it in context (from what I can tell).
Except that’s clearly not what happened, providing further evidence to back AC’s accusation of lack of reading comprehension on your part.
Re: Re: Re:11
They’re claiming I didn’t understand a comment I wrote. That doesn’t make any sense. Clearly they don’t understand the comment I wrote.
Re: Re: Re:12
And now with the trolling. Thanks for providing proof you were never a genuine commenter.
Re: Re: Re:13
It’s not trolling to say they didn’t understand my comment and that I would actually understand my own comment. You’re trolling by calling people trolls who aren’t trolling. You’ve been shitting these bad takes on every random thread.
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FYI, this is the first thread I’ve seen Rocky calling someone a troll, so your accusation provides more evidence against you than him.
Re: Re: Re:15
Actually, I have to confess here that they’re correct. I have been calling anyone I don’t like a troll.
Re: Re: Re:16
Thanks for your latest confession of trolling, AC.
Re: Re: Re:17
You’re the one trying to impersonate me.
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Re: Re: Re:2
Techdirt keeps flagging my comment for some reason, so I put it in a pastebin instead.
https://pastebin.com/E5UE3Qsx
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TL;DR version for the crowd that doesn’t want to click the link:
AC here doesn’t like the left, liberals (which is actually a different thing), or diversity efforts. It’s the usual [insert “the liberals are the real racists!” bullshit here].
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The OP’s hate is kind of funny to read though.
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There’s nothing funny in seeing someone’s mental meltdown.
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Funny or not, the only shit I like looking at is my own as it floats in the john (for health reasons).
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It’s not “for some reason.” You know full fucking well it’s because you’re a bigoted asshole. That you felt what your had to say was so important that you needed to pastebin like anyone actually cared is hilarious.
Get back to us when you’re less of a dick.
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Why do you want to delude people with harmful false ideology?
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… Why?
No, seriously, why.
There’s nothing about trans or queer people in the ten commandments.
… Which, if those commandments are important to you, might tell you something, no?
And, what’s more, if you’re a christian: what, exactly, did Jesus himself have to say about trans and queer people?
Anything?
Re: Re: I did this at school
Jesus says :
Love the Lord God above all else
Love your brother as much as you love yourself (where brother means all other humans)
Oh, I wonder why the fascists like the 10 commandments instead.
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Get back to us when you can cast the first stone.
God abhors liars. It’s listed twice. If God is real the ones first in line to hell are republicans.
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The Rapture is when Satan recalls conservatives back home to hell.
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For many in the world today, it is hell.
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Perhaps every book should have the Ten Commandments inserted in the front cover just in case there’s a non-cishet character if you squint hard enough. That good enough for you, MAGAt troll?
Good ruling, although this one is ultimately going to SCOTUS after the garbage that is Kennedy v. Bremerton. The guideline of “historical practices and understandings” is going to cause problems.
It really would be something if those proposing this (ten commandments in public schools) were to actually follow those rules.
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For conservative Christians, rules are for other people. The pastor who gets caught abusing children “stumbled in his walk with the lord” and needs our forgiveness, but the Democratic politician who is gay should be stoned to death as far as they’re concerned.
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Forget following them, any time someone insists that it’s vital that the ten commandments be put up at [Insert government property here] demand that they list the damn things without checking the book.
I all but guarantee they wouldn’t even get the right set(the ones they keep trying to cram in aren’t the actual ten commandments biblically speaking) 99% of the time, never mind being able to rattle off even half of them accurately.
These aren't Christians at all
They’re fascists, and this is their way of attempting to demonstrate their power and impose their will. It could just as easily be some other document or icon because it really doesn’t matter: this isn’t about content, it’s about power.
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yawns
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Maybe stay awake, you might learn something.
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Agreed. I doubt the fascist magas are spiritual at all. They simply use religion to control their followers leading them into damnation.
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No True Scotsman much? You can disagree with them on issues of theology, or the ways in which Christianity applies to your situation around you, or how it should affect your political leanings; but if they stand by the core tenets of faith (the Trinity, the death and resurrection of Jesus, etc) then they are Christian.
Every faith has odious individuals that proclaim it, or who poorly interpret various elements of scripture/ritual. According to the Bible, even the devil can quote scripture when it suits his purpose. Just as various groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons/LDS, Seventh-Day Adventists/Branch Davidians, Christian Scientists, and other odd sects are still considered Christians, so are these people. You can certainly claim that they are wrong, or even that their actions are directly heretical to the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. But there is an important distinction between a Christian who commits heresy, as opposed to someone who is not Christian.
Trust me, I get why you would want to disavow them! But pretending they are non-Christians instead of poor Christians doesn’t really do much to help – it doesn’t stop them, it doesn’t help you improve your own theological or political views, and it leaves you susceptible to believing that because you’re a real Christian you would never make the same mistakes.
Remember, being a Christian is not the same as doing good in the world. You can certainly do both,but only if you are actively doing each. And just as some people will do good things without being Christian, some people will not do good but still be Christian.
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Not really, no. I can call myself Jewish and even have a Jewish mother and have been ritually circumcised, but if I completely ignore the Talmud, twist the teachings of the Torah and my Rabbi to my own ends, and regularly eat non-Kosher foods, including pork, than I am acting in such a way that everyone would be justified in saying I’m not actually Jewish regardless of me calling myself that. In the same way, saying that someone who calls themselves Christian but ignores the teachings of Christ and cherry-picks only from the Old Testament to provide a basis for their bigotry is not a true Christian in no way invokes the No True Scotsman fallacy, but you knew that.
origin
I wonder if these bible lovers realize that the 10 commandments came from the Jewish bible. Are they in favor of making Judaism the national religion?
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Any scripture is just proof text anyway. Their religions are not derived from the supposed founding documents. They pick and choose whatever to support traditions and new stuff they make up.
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Donald even has his own bible now, maga bible – from China no less!
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FYI, Jews don’t call their Holy Book ‘Bible’, they call it the Torah.
Why didn't the state...
Show some clever graphic examples of the Ten Commandments with the leading precepts of Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism, and Judaism next to them…? Just curious. Oh, and some delicious recipes from the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
These false “Christians” are so transparent in their unConstitutional attempts that it is just a pathetic waste of Louisiana taxpayer’s money. And that’s not the richest state to start with. Sad.
Religious people should rejoice
Those Republican lawmakers hanging up the Ten Commandments was like hunters mounting the heads of their game for display.
Too right. As the First Amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…” and under the terms of the Fourteenth Amendment, ‘Congress’ in that quote also includes state governments.
As always with that lot, 'It's only okay when WE do it.'
Building on the inexplicable support of people who would find Trump’s actions and statements reprehensible if they were carried out by anyone else, legislators are joining forces with so-called “Christian conservatives” to implement the same preferential religious mandates they decry in Islamic countries and whose ancestors came the New World escape government-mandated religion.
The only objection christian dominionists have with sharia law is that it’s based upon the ‘wrong’ religion. Swap it out for theirs and suddenly they become huge fans of religion getting preferential treatment and getting to shape or even write the laws.
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Stop acting as if there were anything wrong with that. Every religion prescribing a world order (and that’s most) of course is most happy with systems catering to them.
The U.S. constitution is secular because it tries to form a basis for establishing a nation rather than a religion. The writers of the constitution preferred a religiously incongruous nation to one ruled by religious leaders.
For that reason, state employees need to swear an oath (a religious act) on the constitution (a secular document). That elevates the inherently inferior constitution to a level of importance of religious mandates.
Which is a reversal of priorities. The more of a reversal it is, the more binding and the more necessary the oath is.
Oath or not, there will always be a temptattion to put the thumb on the scale.
In this case it was more of a sledge hammer than a thumb, but the tendency as such is not a surprise. Having seen centuries of warrings between Christian factions in Europe and millennia of warrings between various book religions world-wide, the U.S. founders decided that their country could perhaps do better without trying to figure out in blood which religion was to rule the land every few generations.
But that does not mean that anybody has to like that.
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Weird way of spelling the word ‘independent’.
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I can think of a few things wrong with the idea that the adherents of a given religion should get to control the lives of everyone else—including non-adherents—with such granularity that it effectively turns the government into an arm of that religion.
But please, do tell me about the “positives” of living in a regime of religious oppression. Go ahead, show me what’s “right” about a theocracy. I’ll wait.
Re: Re: Stop acting as if there were anything wrong with that.
No, David. You stop acting like it’s OK.
The constitution forbids this shit.
Notice how i didn’t have to write a massive essay to twist things round so my point makes sense?
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There’s a lot wrong with that. The French knew that in the 1790s.
Whoever came up with that “Tablet Humor” thing obviously hasn’t read their Bible beyond cherry-picking from it. Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from the top of Mount Sinai on two tablets, with five of the commandments inscribed on each.
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And he broke the tablets into pieces when he saw the Israelites worshipping the golden calf, not considering them worthy of the gift of the commandments. He later was brought to write down another version of them for keepers, but those are not the ones of divine origin.
So, uh, where does that leave the tablet-centric humor?
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Yes, Moses broke the stone tablets when he found his fellow Israelites worshipping a golden calf despite God’s prohibition of false idols, claiming that it was the calf that had freed them from slavery in Egypt, and then he returned to Mount Sinai to replace the tablets. As I said before, MAGAt scum, you need to stop cherry-picking from the Bible and actually start following it (especially the teachings of Jesus) if you want me to believe you’re actually a Christian.
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TIL: If I copy the entire book of Genesis verbatim, the copy I made doesn’t originate from the Bible because it’s a copy.
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You can’t copy the entire book of Genesis verbatim because we don’t have an original copy. We have copies of copies of copies. There’s no way to know what the original copy said verbatim.
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Thanks for proving my point, MAGAt troll.
Re: Re: Re:3
Not MAGA and not a troll. Former Christian just pointing out facts. Don’t be so kneejerk. It wasn’t even criticism.
Re: Re: Re:2
FYI, you can certainly copy what is called Genesis in the Old Testament. I think AC was right to call you a MAGAt troll.
Re: Re: Re:3
This:
Doesn’t contradict this:
Two things can be true. What is called Genesis isn’t the original text, so copy away. It still won’t be “the entire book of Genesis verbatim.”
You think I’m MAGA because I made a factual point that we dont’ have original text for a religious document? How is that MAGA? Can you trolls make up your minds? I’m getting called a neo-marxist in other threads.
Forcing religion on people will only ever get them to loathe you and your religion, especially when you’re a complete hypocrite about following it yourself.
If you want to show kids godliness, start with “thou shall not kill” and pass sensible gun reform, before anymore kids are lost.
next thing they will want us to tithe to their church
Oh wait, we already do give to their church – through taxpayer funding of religious schools.
Wasting tax money? This is the only thing they do with tax money. If they didn’t use it for stupid legal battles like this, they’d just come up with excuses for why they hoard it and never use any of it to actually improve average peoples’ lives.
The united states being a nation that defines itself has “one nation under god” and you have your presidents swear when they take office over a Bible…
You do not live in a secular country at all, like France is.
Can someone explain to me why in the USA showing the 10 commandements is an issue when you ask your highest elected official to swear on the Bible itself ?
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Can someone explain to me why in the USA showing the 10 commandements is an issue
Sure. Only 2 of them are law. To imply that some imaginary man thinks they’re important while the rest of us would all be imprisoned if they were laws (including the asshats who think they’re noble enough to ‘enforce’ them) would be a tremendous waste of time.
when you ask your highest elected official to swear on the Bible itself?
That just goes to show you how useless the bible is when it comes to ‘promises.’ Fear of retribution from an impotent god is only important for the fools who choose to believe that horse shit.
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Thanks for the reply. I understand better.
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Sure.
The Bible is a book of mythology. Sure, a heavy majority of citizens in the United States subscribe to that particular mythology (or at least the parts of it that help them justify their actions). But the law doesn’t require people to believe that mythology. In fact, the U.S. doesn’t require anyone to believe in any religion—and for the purposes of this discussion (as well as the law), “atheism” or “nontheism” is a religious creed. The law also forbids religious tests for holding office precisely to head off the idea that, say, a Jewish man is less qualified for office only because he’s Jewish. Hell, lawmakers don’t even need to be sworn in on the Bible, which I’m sure comes as a surprise to people who believe otherwise.
To that end, religious freedm in the U.S. relies on the concept of “the wall of separation between church and state”. That “wall” tries to keep the church from completely taking over the state and turning the government into a theocracy—and the state from establishing an official state religion and determining what people can and cannot worship even if they follow that religion. (Some Christian denominations, for example, don’t use the King James Bible. Schisms are funny like that.) The “wall” is what keeps the government from forcing a Muslim to worship the Christian God and keeps a powerful Christian sect (e.g., the Catholic Church) from turning its specific beliefs into the law that governs everyone.
Therein lies the trick with the Ten Commandments posters and such: They’re attempts by Christians who feel they don’t have enough cultural power thanks to decades of the law (and the Supreme Court) “erasing” religion from, among other similar institutions, public schools. The whole thing with trying to put Christian religious beliefs has less to do with trying to instill “good morals” and far, far, far more to do with trying to mark their territory. Religious conservatives want political power as a way to attain (or replace) the cultural power that they’ve been losing for decades. The Ten-Commandments-in-public-schools thing is pretty much entirely about that, because I doubt even those dinks believe that a student seeing “thou shalt not kill” on a poster in every classroom in their school would somehow stop them from becoming a school shooter.
Any time you hear about this or any situation like it—a situation where a conservative Christian tries to force their religion on others in a way that would never be acceptable if a Muslim or a Jew tried it—remember that it’s all about power. This bullshit is never about solving a problem or about making the world better. It is always, without fail, about power and the ability to flex that power in ways that make them look like authoritarians (and weirdos). Understand that and you will understand why shit like this Ten Commandments thing happens on a regular basis—and why it’s almost always spearheaded by conservatives.
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Thank you.
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“you have your presidents swear when they take office over a Bible…”
afaik, the incoming president elect is allowed to swear upon whatever the elected person wants to swear upon.
“Thomas Jefferson and Calvin Coolidge did not use a Bible in their oath-taking ceremonies.[23] Theodore Roosevelt did not use the Bible when taking the oath in 1901,[23][24] nor did John Quincy Adams, who swore on a book of law, with the intention that he was swearing on the constitution”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office_of_the_president_of_the_United_States#Use_of_Bibles
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They get to swear on whichever text they want.
See: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64167015
So, no they do not need to be sworn in using a bible.
So, yes, it is secular, but it also allows those who choose to be sworn in on a bible.
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No, it’s not. It’s religiously independent. There’s a difference.
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Nope, by definition, the US is secular.
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Nope, by definition, the US is religiously independent like Rocky said. If it were secular, then religion would be against the law.
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Actually, I was wrong. The US is secular. I actually researched it and found out that secular doesn’t preclude citizens from being religious.
Re: Swearing on a Bible
This clip is probably the greatest example of people’s ignorance about what is required to be sworn on. You can see his brain breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFYRkzznsc0
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Damn I’d forgotten how funny that clip is. He started out looking like an idiot and went downhill from there.
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Deer in the headlights … oh my … hahahaha
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What I like about that clip is the way it shows Roy Moore believing that just because he and Trump both swore on Bibles because they both believe they’re Christians that you can’t get sworn into public office on anything else, including a telephone directory (for example).
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For reference: Moore campaign spokesman Ted Crockett was the dude in the clip.
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Thanks for clarifying that. It’s a very confusing title on the video in question.
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Only if you miss the “spokesman” part of the title.
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Hence the “‘moron’ in a hurry” standard in trademark law, which is a far higher bar to meet.
I forget where I read it but the version Louisiana says to be used is actually the version from the movie The Ten Commandments which was a version created by a group know as the Fraternal Order of the Eagle or something.