Federal Court Blocks Louisiana Law Mandating Posting Of Ten Commandments In School Classrooms

from the wave-after-wave-of-would-be-theocrats dept

Making the bold assumption their voting bloc could read, Louisiana legislators passed a law earlier this year that mandates the posting of the Ten Commandments in every public school classroom. Building on the inexplicable support of people who would find Trump’s actions and statements reprehensible if they were carried out by anyone else, legislators are joining forces with so-called “Christian conservatives” to implement the same preferential religious mandates they decry in Islamic countries and whose ancestors came the New World escape government-mandated religion.

So, we the people are being handed extremely stupid shit like the law described above. And then our federal tax dollars are being spent rejecting laws like these, while the more-logical residents of these states are seeing their local tax dollars squandered to defend obviously unconstitutional laws.

Then there’s the embarrassment of being associated with people like Louisiana governor Jeff Landry, who defended the new law by claiming any student bothered by it could simply just choose not to read the state-mandated Ten Commandments postings:

When asked what he would say to parents who are upset about the Ten Commandments being displayed in their child’s classroom, the governor replied: “If those posters are in school and they (parents) find them so vulgar, just tell the child not to look at it.”

Just pure bullshit. The same people who want to remove books from libraries or limit adults’ access to porn aren’t willing to tell those (performatively) offended by the existence of porn or literature that contains LGBTQ+ subject matter that all they have to do is not partake of this content if they “find them so vulgar.” But when it comes to God stuff, state reps go full Seymour Skinner and declare it’s the children that are wrong if they can’t attend a public school without being offended by posters affirming the state of Louisiana has picked a winner in the religion race.

Well, now it’s not just the kids that are not only right, but will probably be alright. A federal court recently handed down a ruling [PDF] declaring the mandate unconstitutional. This comes with an injunction attached, which means the state can’t force schools to post the Ten Commandments until further notice.

The state argued the requirements only mandated the size of the posting and its content. As supposed “evidence” of its alleged non-desire to violate multiple rights en route to, at the very least, implying the state had a preferred religion, it offered up a bunch of mock-up posters that surrounded the Ten Commandments with memes,

civics questions,

and whatever the fuck this is:

The court is not receptive to the state’s ridiculous pretenses. This law is clearly meant to tear down the separation of church and state. Just because the state employed an imaginative graphic designer to disguise the prominence of the Ten Commandments in mandated postings doesn’t change any of the underlying facts. Worse, it makes it clear the state is not willing to engage with this issue honestly by creating heads-we-win, tails-you-lose scenarios that would deter litigants from suing over obvious constitutional violations.

The court says the facial challenge to the law survives the bad faith arguments of the state government. It’s not going to bless these last-minute PowerPoint presentations, which only exist to force plaintiffs to engage in litigation Minesweeper to bring a constitutional challenge.

Plaintiffs do not seriously dispute that they mount a facial challenge, so, under Croft, they must prove the Act is “unconstitutional in every application” and that there is “no set of circumstances under which” the Ten Commandments could be posted in compliance with the Act that would be constitutional. Plaintiffs lament that Croft is the only Establishment Clause case in the Fifth Circuit to reach this result, but Croft remains binding precedent that this Court must follow.

AG Defendants treat this as a kill shot. They maintain that they can comply with the Establishment Clause by surrounding the Ten Commandments with nonreligious matter no matter how outlandish that material might be. That is to say, AG Defendants believe they can constantly change their iterations, leaving potential challengers like Menelaus trying to seize and hold the ever shape-shifting Proteus until Proteus eventually tires and divulges the hero’s way off the island. See HOMER, THE ODYSSEY 135.391–142.644 (Robert Fagles trans., Penguin Books, 1997). Or, phrased another way, AG Defendants would have aggrieved parents and children play an endless game of whack-a-mole, constantly having to bring new lawsuits to invalidate any conceivable poster that happens to have the Decalogue on it.

Yep, that’s not going to work, not under that precedent and in this court (emphasis in the original):

AG Defendants overreach. Critically, they ignore the fact—both in briefing and in many of their Illustrations—that the Act contains certain “minimum requirements” that the Ten Commandments “shall be displayed on a poster or framed document that is at least eleven inches by fourteen inches,” with the Decalogue as “the central focus of the poster or framed document” and “printed in a large, easily readable font.” Further, these displays must be posted in every “classroom in each school,” all year round, regardless of subject matter, and regardless of the age of the student. Thus, the question is not whether the Biblical laws can ever be put on a poster; the issue is whether, as a matter of law, there is any constitutional way to display the Ten Commandments in accordance with the minimum requirements of the Act.

In short, the Court finds that there is not. First, Stone remains good law and is directly on point, and this Court is bound to follow it. Second, even putting Stone aside, for purposes of this Rule 12(b)(6) motion, Plaintiffs have adequately alleged that H.B. 71 fails to comply with the Establishment Clause analysis laid out in Kennedy and Fifth Circuit precedent.

That’s the Establishment Clause part of the First Amendment. Here’s the rest of it:

Having considered Louisiana’s laws (including the challenged Act and those dealing with mandatory attendance) and having evaluated the above allegations in light of the “fact sensitive” and “holistic” inquiry required by the Fifth Circuit in Mack, the Court finds that these plaintiffs’ concerns rise far beyond “subjective offense”; rather, Plaintiffs have shown a real and substantial likelihood of coercion, particularly given the fact that, in the school context, coercion has been found where “the school has in every practical sense compelled attendance and participation in a religious exercise,” Kennedy, 597 U.S. at 541–42 (cleaned up) […]

Each of the Plaintiffs’ minor children will be forced “in every practical sense,” through Louisiana’s required attendance policy, to be a “captive audience” and to participate in a religious exercise: reading and considering a specific version of the Ten Commandments, one posted in every single classroom, for the entire school year, regardless of the age of the student or subject matter of the course. And, despite the differences among the Plaintiffs’ religious beliefs (be they Unitarian Universalist, Reform Jewish, Presbyterian, or atheist/agnostic), the common threads are (1) that the required posting of the Decalogue conflicts with specific parts of their faith, and (2) that one of those articles of faith, shared by nearly all Plaintiff parents, is raising their children in accordance with their own beliefs and values. Considering the totality of the circumstances, the Court finds that the Act and its requirements are coercive and inconsistent with the history of First Amendment and public education.

And the law is blocked. For now. But mere moments after this decision was handed down, the state of Louisiana appealed it. (I’m not even kidding.)

Now it will be in the hands of the Fifth Circuit, which hasn’t been great at defending constitutional rights, whether it’s dealing with cop violence or handling cases that involve Trump acolytes seeking to reshape the First Amendment in their own corrupted, fascist image. Fingers crossed, the Fifth will reject this appeal as quickly as the lower court rejected Louisiana’s attempt to force legislators’ favorite god down children’s throats.

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Comments on “Federal Court Blocks Louisiana Law Mandating Posting Of Ten Commandments In School Classrooms”

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118 Comments
This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
MrWilson (profile) says:

Re:

No. It’s impossible. Some people get offended when you try not to offend. Some people find inoffensiveness to be offensive. There’s no winning in trying to please everybody because disingenuous people will always try to weaponize the appearance of reasonableness against reasonable people.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Anyone who posts actual pornography in a school, even as a “protest”, should be fired immediately and blacklisted from working within the school system.

Ideally, anyone who tries to turn a classroom into a church should receive the same treatment.

Mcinsand says:

Re: Louisiana

When I was finishing school, I interviewed for a position in Louisiana. It was a fun day and I thought the interview was going well. Pay and vacation were good, and then the interview hit me with, “you can have this spot, if you want it. I have to warn you, though. You have to get out of Louisiana before your kids reach school age.”

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Oh, Louisiana? Well, where do I even start? I mean, hot sauce alone could probably serve as an entire cultural study of the state. You see, hot sauce is practically the lifeblood of Louisiana – it’s more than just a condiment, it’s practically a religion. You have to understand that in Louisiana, hot sauce is used on everything. Eggs? Slather it on there. Crawfish? Douse them in the stuff like you’re preparing for the fiery pits of some Cajun underworld. Gumbo? Oh, honey, don’t even think about not having a bottle within arm’s reach. In fact, the whole idea of Louisiana without hot sauce is like imagining a world without music—sure, it exists, but it’s just kinda empty, you know?

And it’s not just any hot sauce either. We’re talking the real deal—Tabasco, of course, that classic red bottle. It’s like the unofficial ambassador of Louisiana, a tiny bottle of concentrated fire. But that’s not the only one. You’ve got Crystal, which, depending on who you ask, is probably a better match for a hot dog or some fried chicken. It’s got that nice balance of heat and flavor, unlike the more in-your-face burn of Tabasco. Or maybe you’re into something a little funkier, like the one that comes with a name that sounds like a bad joke, but packs a punch of flavor that’ll make your tastebuds sit up and take notice. The varieties are endless. Each bottle has a different nuance. A different story. A different soul. You could spend years just trying to figure out which one’s your favorite, but hey, that’s Louisiana for you—always keeping you guessing, always making you come back for more.

Now, when it comes to Louisiana itself—is it okay? You ask? Well, of course it is, though it’s a place that’s seen its fair share of challenges. From hurricanes (which, yeah, it’s true—people really don’t have basements here because, you know, water levels and all that fun stuff) to a wild ride through economic ups and downs, it’s a state that’s been through a lot. But what’s amazing about Louisiana is its resilience. It’s like the hot sauce of the country—spicy, bold, unapologetic. And just like that hot sauce, Louisiana doesn’t let anything take away its flavor.

The people here are strong—have you ever heard someone speak in a Cajun accent and not felt like you’ve been transported to a completely different world? It’s a place where family means everything, and the food isn’t just food, it’s a tradition. You’re raised on shrimp boils, jambalaya, and of course, gumbo. The food is as much a part of the culture as the music. You can’t even talk about Louisiana without mentioning jazz, blues, or zydeco. The spirit of New Orleans, with its iconic beignets and Mardi Gras beads, is contagious. Louisiana doesn’t just exist—it lives, in every sense of the word.

And let’s talk about those bayous. You can’t visit the state without getting a little lost in the labyrinth of moss-draped trees and swampy waters. Sure, it’s a little eerie—there’s a certain magic in the air that makes you feel like anything could happen, but that’s part of the charm. There’s something raw and untamed about Louisiana that you won’t find anywhere else. It’s a land that thrives on mystery and beauty, where the past and present are so intricately woven together that you can’t really tell where one ends and the other begins.

But, of course, like anything that’s this unique and deeply entrenched in culture, Louisiana’s okay only because the people make it so. It’s been through hardships, yes, but those hardships are woven into the very fabric of its identity. It’s a place that embraces both the good and the bad. It’s a state that doesn’t ask for sympathy, just respect—and hot sauce, naturally. So, in short, yes—Louisiana is more than okay. It’s thriving, in its own spicy, soulful way. And if you ever get the chance, you should come down here, eat some crawfish, get a bottle of hot sauce, and just feel what Louisiana is all about. Because once you do, you’ll understand: there’s no place quite like it.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Two reasons.

  1. “DEI” stands for “diversity, equity, and inclusion”⁠—and none of those are a sexual orientation or gender identity.
  2. It smacks of right-wing efforts to mock, belittle, and degrade queer people by continually adding irrelevant letters to the initialism as a “joke” (e.g., “LGBTQABC”).

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

If there’s a version of the initialism you prefer, use it. (I prefer LGBTQ; then again, I also use “queer” as an alternative.) But stop whining about the other versions, which are all equally valid regardless of how annoying you think they are. That besides: If you’re not queer and you’re mocking the initialism, all that ever does is point out how you think it’s funny to punch down at the marginalized…which is often a precursor to hurting the marginalized in ways that aren’t “hurting their feelings”.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Did you read the comment you responded to?

Did you? The comment I responded to reads:

Are you a member of the LGBTQ community? No? You don’t get to add letters.

If you can’t parse the implied accusation in that, you have a reading comprehension problem with which no one can help you.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

If you can’t parse the implied accusation in that, you have a reading comprehension problem with which no one can help you.

I wrote that comment, you idiot. I know what I meant. Apparently you don’t, but think you do. No one can help you. You’re too busy helping yourself to paint chips.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:10

You can repeat that phrase all you like, but out of context, it just makes you look silly.

Indeed it does, which is why AC used it in context (from what I can tell).

Why would I confess that you wrote a comment I wrote?

Except that’s clearly not what happened, providing further evidence to back AC’s accusation of lack of reading comprehension on your part.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

It’s not “for some reason.” You know full fucking well it’s because you’re a bigoted asshole. That you felt what your had to say was so important that you needed to pastebin like anyone actually cared is hilarious.

Get back to us when you’re less of a dick.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

… Why?
No, seriously, why.
There’s nothing about trans or queer people in the ten commandments.
… Which, if those commandments are important to you, might tell you something, no?
And, what’s more, if you’re a christian: what, exactly, did Jesus himself have to say about trans and queer people?
Anything?

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

For conservative Christians, rules are for other people. The pastor who gets caught abusing children “stumbled in his walk with the lord” and needs our forgiveness, but the Democratic politician who is gay should be stoned to death as far as they’re concerned.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re:

Forget following them, any time someone insists that it’s vital that the ten commandments be put up at [Insert government property here] demand that they list the damn things without checking the book.

I all but guarantee they wouldn’t even get the right set(the ones they keep trying to cram in aren’t the actual ten commandments biblically speaking) 99% of the time, never mind being able to rattle off even half of them accurately.

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Anonymous Coward says:

These aren't Christians at all

They’re fascists, and this is their way of attempting to demonstrate their power and impose their will. It could just as easily be some other document or icon because it really doesn’t matter: this isn’t about content, it’s about power.

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Pseudonymous Coward says:

Re:

No True Scotsman much? You can disagree with them on issues of theology, or the ways in which Christianity applies to your situation around you, or how it should affect your political leanings; but if they stand by the core tenets of faith (the Trinity, the death and resurrection of Jesus, etc) then they are Christian.

Every faith has odious individuals that proclaim it, or who poorly interpret various elements of scripture/ritual. According to the Bible, even the devil can quote scripture when it suits his purpose. Just as various groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons/LDS, Seventh-Day Adventists/Branch Davidians, Christian Scientists, and other odd sects are still considered Christians, so are these people. You can certainly claim that they are wrong, or even that their actions are directly heretical to the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. But there is an important distinction between a Christian who commits heresy, as opposed to someone who is not Christian.

Trust me, I get why you would want to disavow them! But pretending they are non-Christians instead of poor Christians doesn’t really do much to help – it doesn’t stop them, it doesn’t help you improve your own theological or political views, and it leaves you susceptible to believing that because you’re a real Christian you would never make the same mistakes.

Remember, being a Christian is not the same as doing good in the world. You can certainly do both,but only if you are actively doing each. And just as some people will do good things without being Christian, some people will not do good but still be Christian.

Rocky says:

Re: Re:

No True Scotsman much?

Not really, no. I can call myself Jewish and even have a Jewish mother and have been ritually circumcised, but if I completely ignore the Talmud, twist the teachings of the Torah and my Rabbi to my own ends, and regularly eat non-Kosher foods, including pork, than I am acting in such a way that everyone would be justified in saying I’m not actually Jewish regardless of me calling myself that. In the same way, saying that someone who calls themselves Christian but ignores the teachings of Christ and cherry-picks only from the Old Testament to provide a basis for their bigotry is not a true Christian in no way invokes the No True Scotsman fallacy, but you knew that.

jimb (profile) says:

Why didn't the state...

Show some clever graphic examples of the Ten Commandments with the leading precepts of Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism, and Judaism next to them…? Just curious. Oh, and some delicious recipes from the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

These false “Christians” are so transparent in their unConstitutional attempts that it is just a pathetic waste of Louisiana taxpayer’s money. And that’s not the richest state to start with. Sad.

That One Guy (profile) says:

As always with that lot, 'It's only okay when WE do it.'

Building on the inexplicable support of people who would find Trump’s actions and statements reprehensible if they were carried out by anyone else, legislators are joining forces with so-called “Christian conservatives” to implement the same preferential religious mandates they decry in Islamic countries and whose ancestors came the New World escape government-mandated religion.

The only objection christian dominionists have with sharia law is that it’s based upon the ‘wrong’ religion. Swap it out for theirs and suddenly they become huge fans of religion getting preferential treatment and getting to shape or even write the laws.

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David says:

Re:

The only objection christian dominionists have with sharia law is that it’s based upon the ‘wrong’ religion. Swap it out for theirs and suddenly they become huge fans of religion getting preferential treatment and getting to shape or even write the laws.

Stop acting as if there were anything wrong with that. Every religion prescribing a world order (and that’s most) of course is most happy with systems catering to them.

The U.S. constitution is secular because it tries to form a basis for establishing a nation rather than a religion. The writers of the constitution preferred a religiously incongruous nation to one ruled by religious leaders.

For that reason, state employees need to swear an oath (a religious act) on the constitution (a secular document). That elevates the inherently inferior constitution to a level of importance of religious mandates.

Which is a reversal of priorities. The more of a reversal it is, the more binding and the more necessary the oath is.

Oath or not, there will always be a temptattion to put the thumb on the scale.

In this case it was more of a sledge hammer than a thumb, but the tendency as such is not a surprise. Having seen centuries of warrings between Christian factions in Europe and millennia of warrings between various book religions world-wide, the U.S. founders decided that their country could perhaps do better without trying to figure out in blood which religion was to rule the land every few generations.

But that does not mean that anybody has to like that.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Stop acting as if there were anything wrong with that.

I can think of a few things wrong with the idea that the adherents of a given religion should get to control the lives of everyone else⁠—including non-adherents⁠—with such granularity that it effectively turns the government into an arm of that religion.

  1. Forcing people to either follow that religion or face punishment takes away a person’s right to choose what religion they follow (if any).
  2. In the hands of supremacists and fascists, such a government would offer them all they every wanted in terms of turning a country into a giant church (with them in charge, natch).
  3. Do you think priests from the state religion who rape children would be more or less likely to get away with raping children in a country where the government privileges that religion above all others?
  4. You tell me exactly how much say the government should have in whether a woman can get an abortion, and I’ll tell you that in a theocracy, that choice won’t even be available to her.
  5. Book burnings are bad; a theocracy burning the holy books of other religions would be even worse⁠—and entirely within the wheelhouse of such a government.

But please, do tell me about the “positives” of living in a regime of religious oppression. Go ahead, show me what’s “right” about a theocracy. I’ll wait.

David says:

Re:

And he broke the tablets into pieces when he saw the Israelites worshipping the golden calf, not considering them worthy of the gift of the commandments. He later was brought to write down another version of them for keepers, but those are not the ones of divine origin.

So, uh, where does that leave the tablet-centric humor?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Yes, Moses broke the stone tablets when he found his fellow Israelites worshipping a golden calf despite God’s prohibition of false idols, claiming that it was the calf that had freed them from slavery in Egypt, and then he returned to Mount Sinai to replace the tablets. As I said before, MAGAt scum, you need to stop cherry-picking from the Bible and actually start following it (especially the teachings of Jesus) if you want me to believe you’re actually a Christian.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

This:

FYI, you can certainly copy what is called Genesis in the Old Testament.

Doesn’t contradict this:

You can’t copy the entire book of Genesis verbatim because we don’t have an original copy.

Two things can be true. What is called Genesis isn’t the original text, so copy away. It still won’t be “the entire book of Genesis verbatim.”

I think AC was right to call you a MAGAt troll.

You think I’m MAGA because I made a factual point that we dont’ have original text for a religious document? How is that MAGA? Can you trolls make up your minds? I’m getting called a neo-marxist in other threads.

G says:

The united states being a nation that defines itself has “one nation under god” and you have your presidents swear when they take office over a Bible…

You do not live in a secular country at all, like France is.

Can someone explain to me why in the USA showing the 10 commandements is an issue when you ask your highest elected official to swear on the Bible itself ?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Can someone explain to me why in the USA showing the 10 commandements is an issue

Sure. Only 2 of them are law. To imply that some imaginary man thinks they’re important while the rest of us would all be imprisoned if they were laws (including the asshats who think they’re noble enough to ‘enforce’ them) would be a tremendous waste of time.

when you ask your highest elected official to swear on the Bible itself?

That just goes to show you how useless the bible is when it comes to ‘promises.’ Fear of retribution from an impotent god is only important for the fools who choose to believe that horse shit.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Can someone explain to me why in the USA showing the 10 commandements is an issue when you ask your highest elected official to swear on the Bible itself ?

Sure.

The Bible is a book of mythology. Sure, a heavy majority of citizens in the United States subscribe to that particular mythology (or at least the parts of it that help them justify their actions). But the law doesn’t require people to believe that mythology. In fact, the U.S. doesn’t require anyone to believe in any religion⁠—and for the purposes of this discussion (as well as the law), “atheism” or “nontheism” is a religious creed. The law also forbids religious tests for holding office precisely to head off the idea that, say, a Jewish man is less qualified for office only because he’s Jewish. Hell, lawmakers don’t even need to be sworn in on the Bible, which I’m sure comes as a surprise to people who believe otherwise.

To that end, religious freedm in the U.S. relies on the concept of “the wall of separation between church and state”. That “wall” tries to keep the church from completely taking over the state and turning the government into a theocracy⁠—and the state from establishing an official state religion and determining what people can and cannot worship even if they follow that religion. (Some Christian denominations, for example, don’t use the King James Bible. Schisms are funny like that.) The “wall” is what keeps the government from forcing a Muslim to worship the Christian God and keeps a powerful Christian sect (e.g., the Catholic Church) from turning its specific beliefs into the law that governs everyone.

Therein lies the trick with the Ten Commandments posters and such: They’re attempts by Christians who feel they don’t have enough cultural power thanks to decades of the law (and the Supreme Court) “erasing” religion from, among other similar institutions, public schools. The whole thing with trying to put Christian religious beliefs has less to do with trying to instill “good morals” and far, far, far more to do with trying to mark their territory. Religious conservatives want political power as a way to attain (or replace) the cultural power that they’ve been losing for decades. The Ten-Commandments-in-public-schools thing is pretty much entirely about that, because I doubt even those dinks believe that a student seeing “thou shalt not kill” on a poster in every classroom in their school would somehow stop them from becoming a school shooter.

Any time you hear about this or any situation like it⁠—a situation where a conservative Christian tries to force their religion on others in a way that would never be acceptable if a Muslim or a Jew tried it⁠—remember that it’s all about power. This bullshit is never about solving a problem or about making the world better. It is always, without fail, about power and the ability to flex that power in ways that make them look like authoritarians (and weirdos). Understand that and you will understand why shit like this Ten Commandments thing happens on a regular basis⁠—and why it’s almost always spearheaded by conservatives.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“you have your presidents swear when they take office over a Bible…”

afaik, the incoming president elect is allowed to swear upon whatever the elected person wants to swear upon.

“Thomas Jefferson and Calvin Coolidge did not use a Bible in their oath-taking ceremonies.[23] Theodore Roosevelt did not use the Bible when taking the oath in 1901,[23][24] nor did John Quincy Adams, who swore on a book of law, with the intention that he was swearing on the constitution”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office_of_the_president_of_the_United_States#Use_of_Bibles

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The united states being a nation that defines itself has “one nation under god” and you have your presidents swear when they take office over a Bible…

They get to swear on whichever text they want.

See: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64167015

So, no they do not need to be sworn in using a bible.

So, yes, it is secular, but it also allows those who choose to be sworn in on a bible.

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