Aussie Gov’t: Age Verification Went From ‘Privacy Nightmare’ To Mandatory In A Year

from the topsy-turvy-down-under dept

Over the last few years, it’s felt like the age verification debate has gotten progressively stupider. People keep insisting that it must be necessary, and when others point out that there are serious privacy and security concerns that will likely make things worse, not better, we’re told that we have to do it anyway.

Let’s head down under for just one example. Almost exactly a year ago, the Australian government released a report on age verification, noting that the technology was simply a privacy and security nightmare. At the time, the government felt that mandating such a technology was too dangerous:

“It is clear from the roadmap at present, each type of age verification or age assurance technology comes with its own privacy, security, effectiveness or implementation issues,” the government’s response to the roadmap said.

The technology must work effectively without circumvention, must be able to be applied to pornography hosted outside Australia, and not introduce the risk to personal information for adults who choose to access legal pornography, the government stated.

“The roadmap makes clear that a decision to mandate age assurance is not yet ready to be taken.”

That’s why we were a bit surprised earlier this year when the government announced a plan to run a pilot program for age verification. However, as we pointed out at the time, just hours after the announcement of that pilot program, it was revealed that a mandated verification database used for bars and clubs in Australia was breached, revealing sensitive data on over 1 million people.

You would think that might make the government pause and think more deeply about this. But apparently that’s not the way they work down under. The government is now exploring plans to officially age-gate social media.

The federal government could soon have the power to ban children from social media platforms, promising legislation to impose an age limit before the next election.

But the government will not reveal any age limit for social media until a trial of age-verification technology is complete.

The article is full of extremely silly quotes:

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said social media was taking children away from real-life experiences with friends and family.

“Parents are worried sick about this,” he said.

“We know they’re working without a map. No generation has faced this challenge before.

“The safety and mental and physical health of our young people is paramount. 

“Parents want their kids off their phones and on the footy field. So do I.”

This is ridiculous on all sorts of levels. Many families stay in touch via social media, so taking kids away from it may actually cut off their ability to connect with “friends and families.”

Yes, there are cases where some kids cannot put down phones and where obvious issues must be dealt with, as we’ve discussed before. But the idea that this is a universal, across-the-board problem is nonsense.

Hell, a recent study found that more people appeared to be going into the great outdoors because of seeing it glorified on social media. Some are worried that people are too focused on the great outdoors because it’s being overly glorified on social media.

Again, there’s a lot of nuance in the research that suggests this is not a simple issue of “if we cut kids off of social media, they’ll spend more time outside.” Some kids use social media to build up their social life which can lead to more outdoor activity, while some don’t. It’s not nearly as simple as saying that they’ll magically go outdoors and play sports if they don’t have social media.

Then you combine that with the fact that the Australian government knows that age verification is inherently unsafe, and this whole plan seems especially dangerous.

But, of course, politicians love to play into the latest moral panic.

South Australian Premier Peter Malinauskas said getting kids off social media required urgent leadership.

“The evidence shows early access to addictive social media is causing our kids harm,” he said.

“This is no different to cigarettes or alcohol. When a product or service hurts children, governments must act.”

Except, it’s extremely different than cigarettes and alcohol, both of which are actually consumed by the body and insert literal toxins into the bloodstream. Social media is speech. Speech can influence, but you can’t call it inherently a toxin or inherently good or bad.

The statement that “addictive social media is causing our kids harm” is literally false. The evidence is way more nuanced, and there remain no studies showing an actual causal relationship here. As we’ve discussed at length (backed up by multiple studies), if anything the relationship may go the other way, with kids who are already dealing with mental health problems resorting to spending more time on social media because of failures by the government to provide resources to help.

In other words, this rush to ban social media for kids is, in effect, an attempt by government officials to cover up their own failures.

The government could be doing all sorts of things to actually help kids. It could invest in better digital literacy, training kids how to use the technology more appropriately. It could provide better mental health resources for people of all ages. It could provide more space and opportunities for kids to freely spend time outdoors. These are all good uses of the government’s powers that tackle the issues they claim matter here.

Surveilling kids and collecting private data on them which everyone knows will eventually leak, and then banning them from spaces that many, many kids have said make their lives and mental health better, seems unlikely to help.

Of course, it’s only at the very end of the article linked above that the reporters include a few quotes from academics pointing out that age verification could create privacy and security problems, and that such laws could backfire. But the article never even mentions that the claims made by politicians are also full of shit.

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Comments on “Aussie Gov’t: Age Verification Went From ‘Privacy Nightmare’ To Mandatory In A Year”

Fractally wrong

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said social media was taking children away from real-life experiences with friends and family.

Never mind the experiences with friends and family that might only occur with the aid of social media, but if kids would rather interact online than in person maybe there’s a reason for that that can’t be boiled down to ‘It’s social media’s fault’.

“Parents are worried sick about this,” he said.

Then it sounds like a problem they should be dealing with.

“We know they’re working without a map. No generation has faced this challenge before.

Oh indeed, never before in the history of humanity have parents ever gotten worked up over their kids focusing on things that the parents aren’t interested in or understand…

“The safety and mental and physical health of our young people is paramount.

‘… which is why we’re insisting that anyone but the government or parents do something about it.’

“Parents want their kids off their phones and on the footy field. So do I.”

Then the parents should step up, talk to their kids about what they think is excessive use of their phones that the parents gave them and continue to pay for and set mutually agreed upon limits if need be.

People like them love to use the ‘social media is just as bad as booze and cigarettes’ line, but by their own argument that means it’s the parents that are buying their kids digital booze and smokes, so why not blame them for once for continuing to feed such a ‘toxic’ addiction and hold them accountable for cutting the kids off?

— That One Guy

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37 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

I remain confused relative to the proposed implementation of this age verification plan. Does/will it only be required in order to access certain websites or does/will it apply to everything?

If I am forced to conduct business upon the internet, paying bills whatever .. my identity had better be secure at present and I see no benefit to verification of my age when the business should already be cool with me paying them online.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“I remain confused relative to the proposed implementation of this age verification plan. Does/will it only be required in order to access certain websites or does/will it apply to everything?”

Aus gov: I have no idea but this will sound good in the newspapers!

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Anonymous Coward says:

This is going to be so unworkable and I bet it will be delayed over and over again until it is scraped. Btw there an election next year bet that has nothing to do with this…

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Anonymous Coward says:

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Both majors in Parliament are all for this bullshit. The Government then have enough votes to get this through both houses without having to rely on minor parties or independents.

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Anonymous Coward says:

The federal government could soon have the power to ban children from social media platforms….

Er, no. The federal government could soon have the power to punish social media platforms when children are discovered to have accessed them.

Because no government is going to be able to keep kids off social media. Falsifying your data as a minor has been standard security practice for a generation now. Whatever technical limitations government or industry attempt to create to block children from social media, it’ll just get circumvented as both children and their parents work to get their children on the platforms anyway.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Fractally wrong

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said social media was taking children away from real-life experiences with friends and family.

Never mind the experiences with friends and family that might only occur with the aid of social media, but if kids would rather interact online than in person maybe there’s a reason for that that can’t be boiled down to ‘It’s social media’s fault’.

“Parents are worried sick about this,” he said.

Then it sounds like a problem they should be dealing with.

“We know they’re working without a map. No generation has faced this challenge before.

Oh indeed, never before in the history of humanity have parents ever gotten worked up over their kids focusing on things that the parents aren’t interested in or understand…

“The safety and mental and physical health of our young people is paramount.

‘… which is why we’re insisting that anyone but the government or parents do something about it.’

“Parents want their kids off their phones and on the footy field. So do I.”

Then the parents should step up, talk to their kids about what they think is excessive use of their phones that the parents gave them and continue to pay for and set mutually agreed upon limits if need be.

People like them love to use the ‘social media is just as bad as booze and cigarettes’ line, but by their own argument that means it’s the parents that are buying their kids digital booze and smokes, so why not blame them for once for continuing to feed such a ‘toxic’ addiction and hold them accountable for cutting the kids off?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

you post gave me a thought: Perhaps he’s been having lots of parents complaining they can’t escape their children on social media sites (for parents who are not in physical proximity to their children)

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“Parents are worried sick about this,” he said, parents were stunned to find out. “Which parents?” they asked. Although some parents fell in line quickly, not wanting to be seen as bad parents, as unthinking fear took hold like liabilityphobia in a school administration.

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Arianity says:

Re:

but by their own argument that means it’s the parents that are buying their kids digital booze and smokes, so why not blame them for once

Society seems to have largely given up on parent’s being tech literate presumably because it ‘changes too fast’, and thrown up their hands. It goes way beyond just social media, too.

There is similar handwringing about kids under 5 spending too much time on tablets (and it isn’t baby who is setting those up), properly limiting access to uncontroversially age-inappropriate content like hardcore porn, etc. The uptake on existing parental tools (not perfect, but still) like time limit software is pretty abysmal.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said social media was taking children away from real-life experiences with friends and family.

I really hate to break it to… well everyone. But the internet is part of “real-life”. This chums claims are similar to bitching and moaning that children are spending too much time time writting to their penpals, or reading letters.

“Parents want their kids off their phones and on the footy field. So do I.”

Ohhhh. Now we have it: “My control fetish isn’t being instantly gratified without me having to lift a finger, so I am pissed”. Sounds like the dude is throwing a under-5 style temper tantrum because he feels he hasn’t bullied enough people lately.

For the parent… you literally have the legal right (I mean unless in Australia children legally own their parents or something) to tell the child: no you can’t have an electron device. Or “no, you’ve had enough screen time today”. But instead of using the authority you have to solve the (alleged) problem… you have someone else telling both you and your child what to do. Yes. that makes lots of sense.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“Parents want their kids off their phones and on the footy field. So do I.”

Yep, that’s specifically a “Kids these days” quote.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

To be clear, he’s the more reasonable one. The opposition is worse.

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Anonymous Coward says:

It’s stupid how often proposals like these end up having to prove a disaster in practice before governments listen, when they could’ve easily been averted in the research stage.

Do we just not trust researchers anymore?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Do we just not trust researchers anymore?

Governments don’t, at any rate. Hell, here in the good ol’ US of A, Republicans have literally made their party (and its voting base) so distrusting of knowledge and expertise that they’ll believe comforting lies that confirm their biases over harsh truths that spit in the face of their bigotry.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Well, if they won’t trust the science, they’ll just have to pay the price when they have to actually implement these ideas. (Spoilers, it’ll be a technical nightmare of vastly greater scale than they expect, I imagine.)

If only the entire population of the given country didn’t have to suffer it as well in the process..

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

“Parents want their kids off their phones and on the footy field. So do I.”

Dude! When I was their age, kicking me off my phone STILL would not get me on the footy field. But then back in my day, you would have railed against my getting together with my friends to play D&D. … because I wasn’t on the footy field like the kids you hung with.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

There is a long history of governments deciding they would rather have people toe the line and provide justification over actual insight and guidance.

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n00bdragon (profile) says:

It will be terrible and ineffective, it won’t stop the porn, it will lead to leaks, and when the whole thing blows up I guarantee you there will be “no way to prevent this.” Expect lots of passive voice, no finger pointing, and a massive collective shrug because rights are always merely the “cost of doing business”.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

And that if they didn’t delay it over and over again.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Shame lawmakers apparently insists we gotta learn these measures cause more harm than good the hard way, i guess.

Unless, of course, it proves too much of a headache to implement in the first place, but nonetheless still a massive waste of time and money that could’ve gone to far better proposals.

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Anonymous Coward says:

The stupid, it burns.

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Rocky says:

I guess nobody actually asked the kids as usual and instead the out of touch political animals just steamrolled over them because “tHiNk oF tHe cHiLdReN!!”.

How about talking to the kids without being an overbearing condescending adult, huh?

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Danny DeSantus says:

Ah come on people. Give the idiot some rope here eh. His secret investment portfolio has at least seven porn businesses listed for over a million each. If he can get these laws in place even for a very short time, the user-cost of his particular brand of porn; both vids and pics, will triple over night. He’s just a businessman trying to make a living the only way he knows how. Some slack eh people. /s

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Anonymous Coward says:

Here’s an idea, lets go all-in for complete and utter stupidity and attempted overkill about porn and social media. It’ll be a sure winner with the Australian people.

“No more social media and porn for you little Timmy.”
Little Timmy strikes the overactors pose, “Oh mater and pater, whatever shall I do now?” and he overacts his way to his bedroom to finish setting up the VPN he signed up for on his mobile and laptop.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

or you know use false id to by pass the thing too

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Tdestroyer209 says:

I feel like politicians these days in various parts of the world are having some serious brain rot with the “think of the children” bullshit.

They justify that Age Verification or Random TOTK (think of the kids) bill will protect kids but usually it never does and of course they think they know better than researchers and people who know internet far better than these politicians do.

I feel like politicians who push for TOTK bills don’t live in reality anymore it’s either accept our bill or get the hell out of their way of passing a AV/TOTK bill that will screw things up more on the internet for everyone and they just don’t care about the consequences but act like they are a moral savior of children.

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Drew Wilson (user link) says:

I remember the good old days when age verification was only ever going to be used to keep children away from porn and nothing else. Good times those days were.

… come to think of it, I think that was only a few months ago.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

And it didn’t even work.

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Paul says:

They are at least not united on this.

On 1 channel someone government adjacent is saying the age verification technology is immature and lays out at least 3 other reasons to not go ahead.

Then on the other you have some doctor with 6 daughters pontificating how bad media is for children without using a single fact/study etc, just talking about how evil it is. Unfortunately the first channel is commercial and the second tends to say exactly what the government wants them to say.

The timing makes me suspicious they will link this to a digital ID ie no internet unless you “log in”the last time they tried to bring In a id it got voted down.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

you mean digital id conspiracy theory crap about the wef

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Anonymous Coward says:

Social media is part of life it’s used to post comments send messages make friends ,not everyone likes sport , you could take social media and replace it with video games or comic books from thr comments made by politicians.
Age verification places every ones data at Risk of hackers kids and adults
Will this new law apply to apps like what’s app or other websites
In Ireland to buy drink alcohol you have to be at least 21 if a retailer thinks you are not an adult they simply ask for some form of ID eg do you look like someone underage
There’s no digital data stored or accessed

There’s a reason why even the eu has not encouraged any form of age verification
Its a threat to user privacy and free speech

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Arianity says:

Just wanted to pop in and say I noticed and appreciated the wording changes (intentional or not) from the last time this topic came up, even if I don’t necessarily agree with the overall conclusion. It’s much improved. Hopefully some positivity/encouragement is nice instead of just constant negativity

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

there is nothing good about age id

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Anonymous Coward says:

It’s not just for social media, either – it’s literally any kind of online communication. Reading the articles, it’s rather clear that the people involved are thirsting at the bit to restrict people’s access to basic human interaction over the internet. Is there just something in the water in Australia?

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Anonymous Coward says:

That can be bypassed with a VPN

Another country I see vpn usage going up in is Holland

Gert Wilders wants to ban Islam and the koran there. However Muslims will just simply use a VPN there to access the Koran from websites offshore and the Wilders government will never see what is happening

It seems that wilders does not realize what a VPN is and what it does

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Anonymous Coward says:

One of the loudest advocates of “age verification” there likes to promote QAnon like conspiracies, and well, anything he disagrees with is somehow a “conspiracy”.

He also disingenuously compares it to showing someone ID to buy beer in a bar / physical shop, even though that isn’t remotely similar. He also prefers to attack a strawman of the arguments of people against it.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Or rather than the loudest, I should say his takes got a disproportionate amount of attention, despite being complete garbage, and more reasonable and rational people were ignored more.

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