We Can’t Have Serious Discussions About Section 230 If People Keep Misrepresenting It

from the that's-not-how-any-of-this-works dept

At the Supreme Court’s oral arguments about Florida and Texas’ social media content moderation laws, there was a fair bit of talk about Section 230. As we noted at the time, a few of the Justices (namely Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch) seemed confused about Section 230 and also about what role (if any) it had regarding these laws.

The reality is that the only role for 230 is in preempting those laws. Section 230 has a preemption clause that basically says no state laws can go into effect that contradict Section 230 (in other words: no state laws that dictate how moderation must work). But that wasn’t what the discussion was about. The discussion was mostly about Thomas and Gorsuch’s confusion over 230 and thinking that the argument for Section 230 (that you’re not held liable for third party speech) contradicts the arguments laid out by NetChoice/CCIA in these cases, where they talked about the platforms’ own speech.

Gorsuch and Thomas were mixing up two separate things, as both the lawyers for the platforms and the US made clear. There are multiple kinds of speech at issue here. Section 230 does not hold platforms liable for third-party speech. But the issue with these laws was whether or not it constricted the platforms’ ability to express themselves in the way in which they moderated. That is, the editorial decisions that were being made expressing “this is what type of community we enable” are a form of public expression that the Florida & Texas laws seek to stifle.

That is separate from who is liable for individual speech.

But, as is the way of the world whenever it comes to discussions on Section 230, lots of people are going to get confused.

Today that person is Steven Brill, one of the founders of NewsGuard, a site that seeks to “rate” news organizations, including for their willingness to push misinformation. Brill publishes stories for NewsGuard on a Substack (!?!?) newsletter titled “Reality Check.” Unfortunately, Brill’s piece is chock full of misinformation regarding Section 230. Let’s do some correcting:

February marks the 28th anniversary of the passage of Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Today, Section 230 is notorious for giving social media platforms exemptions from all liability for pretty much anything their platforms post online. But in February of 1996, this three-paragraph section of a massive telecommunications bill aimed at modernizing regulations related to the nascent cable television and cellular phone industries was an afterthought. Not a word was written about it in mainstream news reports covering the passage of the overall bill.

The article originally claimed it was the 48th anniversary, though it was later corrected (without a correction notice — which is something Newsguard checks on when rating the trustworthiness of publications). That’s not that big a deal, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with “stealth” corrections for typos and minor errors like that.

But this sentence is just flat out wrong: “Section 230 is notorious for giving social media platforms exemptions from all liability for pretty much anything their platforms post online.” It’s just not true. Section 230 gives limited exemptions from some forms of liability for third party content that they had no role in creating. That’s quite different than what Brill claims. His formulation suggests they’re not liable for anything they, themselves, put online. That’s false.

Section 230 is all about putting the liability on whichever party created the violation under the law. If a website is just hosting the content, but someone else created the content, the liability should go to the creator of the content, not the host.

Courts have had no problem finding liability on social media platforms for things they themselves post online. We have a string of such cases, covering Roommates, Amazon, HomeAway, InternetBrands, Snap and more. In every one of those cases (contrary to Brill’s claims), the courts have found that Section 230 does not protect things these platforms post online.

Brill gets a lot more wrong. He discusses the Prodigy and CompuServe cases and then says this (though he gives too much credit to CompuServe’s lack of moderation being the reason why the court ruled that way):

That’s why those who introduced Section 230 called it the “Protection for Good Samaritans” Act. However, nothing in Section 230 required screening for harmful content, only that those who did screen and, importantly, those who did not screen would be equally immune. And, as we now know, when social media replaced these dial-up services and opened its platforms to billions of people who did not have to pay to post anything, their executives and engineers became anything but good Samaritans. Instead of using the protection of Section 230 to exercise editorial discretion, they used it to be immune from liability when their algorithms deliberately steered people to inflammatory conspiracy theories, misinformation, state-sponsored disinformation, and other harmful content. As then-Federal Communications Commission Chairman Reed Hundt told me 25 years later, “We saw the internet as a way to break up the dominance of the big networks, newspapers, and magazines who we thought had the capacity to manipulate public opinion. We never dreamed that Section 230 would be a protection mechanism for a new group of manipulators — the social media companies with their algorithms. Those companies didn’t exist then.”

This is both wrong and misleading. First of all, nothing in Section 230 could “require” screening for harmful content, because both the First and Fourth Amendments would forbid that. So the complaint that it did not require such screening is not just misplaced, it’s silly.

We’ve gone over this multiple times. Pre-230, the understanding was that, under the First Amendment, liability of a distributor was dependent on whether or not the distributor had clear knowledge of the violative nature of the content. As the court in Smith v. California made clear, it would make no sense to hold someone liable without knowledge:

For if the bookseller is criminally liable without knowledge of the contents, and the ordinance fulfills its purpose, he will tend to restrict the books he sells to those he has inspected; and thus the State will have imposed a restriction upon the distribution of constitutionally protected as well as obscene literature.

That’s the First Amendment problem. But, we can take that a step further as well. If the state now requires scanning, you have a Fourth Amendment problem. Specifically, as soon as the government makes scanning mandatory, none of the content found during such scanning can ever be admissible in court, because no warrant was issued upon probable cause. As we again described a couple years ago:

The Fourth Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. Like the rest of the Bill of Rights, the Fourth Amendment doesn’t apply to private entities—except where the private entity gets treated like a government actor in certain circumstances. Here’s how that happens: The government may not make a private actor do a search the government could not lawfully do itself. (Otherwise, the Fourth Amendment wouldn’t mean much, because the government could just do an end-run around it by dragooning private citizens.) When a private entity conducts a search because the government wants it to, not primarily on its own initiative, then the otherwise-private entity becomes an agent of the government with respect to the search. (This is a simplistic summary of “government agent” jurisprudence; for details, see the Kosseff paper.) And government searches typically require a warrant to be reasonable. Without one, whatever evidence the search turns up can be suppressed in court under the so-called exclusionary rule because it was obtained unconstitutionally. If that evidence led to additional evidence, that’ll be excluded too, because it’s “the fruit of the poisonous tree.”

All of that seems kinda important?

Yet Brill rushes headlong on the assumption that 230 could have and should have required mandatory scanning for “harmful” content.

Also, most harmful content remains entirely protected by the First Amendment, making this idea even more ridiculous. There would be no liability for it.

Brill seems especially confused about how 230 and the First Amendment work together, suggesting (incorrectly) that 230 gives them some sort of extra editorial benefit that it does not convey:

With Section 230 in place, the platforms will not only have a First Amendment right to edit, but also have the right to do the kind of slipshod editing — or even the deliberate algorithmic promotion of harmful content — that has done so much to destabilize the world.  

Again, this is incorrect on multiple levels. The First Amendment gives them the right to edit. It also gives them the right to slipshod editing. And the right to promote harmful content via algorithms. That has nothing to do with Section 230.

The idea that “algorithmic promotion of harmful content… has done so much to destabilize the world” is a myth that has mostly been debunked. Some early algorithms weren’t great, but most have gotten much better over time. There’s little to no supporting evidence that “algorithms” have been particularly harmful over the long run.

Indeed, what we’ve seen is that while there were some bad algorithms a decade or so ago, pressure from the market has pushed the companies to improve. Users, advertisers, the media, have all pressured the companies to improve their algorithms and it seems to work.

Either way, those algorithms still have nothing to do with Section 230. The First Amendment lets companies use algorithms to recommend things, because algorithms are, themselves, expressions of opinion (“we think you would like this thing more than the next thing”) and nothing in there would trigger legal liability even if you dropped Section 230 altogether.

It’s a best (or worst) of both worlds, enjoyed by no other media companies.

This is simply false. Outright false. EVERY company that has a website that allows third-party content is protected by Section 230 for that third-party content. No company is protected for first-party content, online or off.

For example, last year, Fox News was held liable to the tune of $787 million for defaming Dominion Voting Systems by putting on guests meant to pander to its audience by claiming voter fraud in the 2020 election. The social media platforms’ algorithms performed the same audience-pleasing editing with the same or worse defamatory claims. But their executives and shareholders were protected by Section 230. 

Except… that’s not how any of this works, even without Section 230. Fox News was held liable because the content was produced by Fox News. All of the depositions and transcripts were… Fox News executives and staff. Because they created the defamatory content.

The social media apps didn’t create the content.

This is the right outcome. The blame should always go to the party who violated the law in creating the content.

And Fox News is equally as protected by Section 230 if there is defamation created by someone else but posted in a comment to a Fox News story (something that seems likely to happen frequently).

This whole column is misleading in the extreme, and simply wrong at other points. NewsGuard shouldn’t be publishing misinformation itself given that the company claims it’s promoting accuracy in news and pushing back against misinformation.

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Comments on “We Can’t Have Serious Discussions About Section 230 If People Keep Misrepresenting It”

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189 Comments
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31Bob (profile) says:

Confusion is literally the point. No sane person wants this, and the only way the assholes can push it through is by literally lying about what it contains, covers and how it will be used.

This is the place that Republicans have brought us.

The land of horse shit, obvious lies with straight faces, and stances on issues that wouldn’t make sense to anyone with a working brain.

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Anonymous Coward says:

We Can’t Have Serious Discussions About Section 230 If People Keep Misrepresenting It

I don’t know anything about the yahoo you’re talking about. But most people don’t want a serious discussion about section 230. Most of them have already figured out that that’s a losing proposition.

Those people just want to create so much smoke and confusion around the issue, that at some point they can burn it down without anybody noticing.

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Koby (profile) says:

Original Intent Can Still Be Seen

The reality is that the only role for 230 is in preempting those laws. Section 230 has a preemption clause that basically says no state laws can go into effect that contradict Section 230 (in other words: no state laws that dictate how moderation must work).

This is somewhat disingenuous, in that Section 230 is being used to achieve blanket editorial immunity. Particularly, (c)(2)(A) and its “otherwise objectionable” phrase is the basis for social media to restrict anything they want. It is not. It was originally designed to allow “Protection for “Good Samaritan” blocking and screening of offensive material”, and contains those words verbatim right there at (c). It was designed to permit websites to block porn and vulgarity, not to shield themselves from viewpoints with which they disagree.

(c)(2)(A) does not provide blanket editorial immunity, and so state laws are not inconsistent with the language of Section 230 with regards to allowing ordinary political opinion.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

A Christian supremacist? So something completely against the teachings of Jesus. Just lol. You are just a racist and nazi using a religion you don’t follow to justify your actions. You aren’t any different than the taliban.

As for being a patriot. Yes you are a nazi. You know the whole nationalist part of nazi Germany is what you call patriotism. It’s also what China and north Korea follow.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I’m a pro-American patriot and a Christian supremacist

These two things do not go together very well. I’m a Christian and an American patriot myself, but a key part of America is freedom of thought and religion, and another is the separation of church and state. Religious supremacy is kinda antithetical to that.

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Anonymous Coward says:

The site owner’s entire schtick is misrepresenting important issues based on his and his underlings’ politics.

To wit: his shameful claims that the U.S. government did not censor disfavored political speech online, and the ongoing campaign of anti-police hate speech and disinformation produced by one of his most anti-social bloggers.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

As I’ve said previously, there are literally tens of millions of wholesome, problem free interactions between police at every level and citizens across the entire country every year.

The TD underling I refer to is obsessed with finding one or two examples per week out of tens of millions annually where police might’ve made mistakes or not done the best work possible. He then presents them as if they’re evidence of some widespread problem.

This is disinformation in service of the false narrative that police and bad.

There is no systemic bias in policing in the US. There is no culture of exploitation and abuse. The vast majority of interactions between law enforcement and civilians are lawful and kind and do Lady Justice proud.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

So in other words you have your ass so far up your head that you treat decades of cop behavior as one off instances that do not show a trend.

For fucks sake. No, there are not one to two things a week , there are one to two things this site reports on. You can easily find dozens of similar stories being reported, being recorded. But you aren’t interested in facts that disagree with you.

What you don’t find is cops being actual punished for their behavior, or any of these so called “good” cops calling for cleaning out the garbage.

As for system abuse. You can find cops using the same tactics to abuse asset forfieture in nearly every state. That’s one example. The issue of not seeing systemic bias and systemic issues is your denial of facts.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

This is a bizarre post. Yes, there are millions of interactions between citizens and police. And, yes, most of them aren’t problematic. However, some of them are, enough that we should be concerned because they are often criminal, and the police get away under “qualified immunity.” I’ve had an officer lie to a judge about an incident I was involved in, I could prove he lied, and the judge nonetheless accepted the lie. I am quite willing to be responsible for my own behavior, but I’m not willing to be punished when I’m innocent and a person I should be able to trust intentionally lies!

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I’ve had an officer lie to a judge about an incident I was involved in, I could prove he lied, and the judge nonetheless accepted the lie. I am quite willing to be responsible for my own behavior…

While I lament the injustice you believe you suffered, an anecdote is not evidence of a systemic issue.

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MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

As I’ve said previously, there are literally tens of millions of wholesome, problem free interactions between police at every level and citizens across the entire country every year.

You’re describing when cops do their jobs as expected. That’s what they’re supposed to do. When they don’t do what they’re supposed to do, when they commit crimes, murder people, destroy or steal property, etc. it is newsworthy.

If one of your loved ones was murdered and in the trial of the suspected murderer, his lawyer provided the defense of “my client didn’t murder the thousands of people he interacted with last year, except for one,” would you want the jury to accept that excuse and rule him not guilty?

We’re not talking about a retail employee who accidentally charges you twice for the same product when he screws up. We’re talking about people entrusted with the authority to decide when to end the lives of others under the color of law. “With great power comes great responsibility” and it should be accompanied by the greatest scrutiny and oversight.

There is no systemic bias in policing in the US. There is no culture of exploitation and abuse. The vast majority of interactions between law enforcement and civilians are lawful and kind and do Lady Justice proud.

It’s impossible to back this claim with an evidence, so it’s able to be ignored completely. You’re not a witness to every police stop across the country. That you would make such a blanket claim that is clearly unsupportable indicates your obvious bias.

There is, however, a large amount of evidence that there are systemic biases in policing and a significant number of injustices. There’s a large body of academic work on various related subject matters. But you’re not going to seek out any information that contradicts your bias.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

You’re describing when cops do their jobs as expected.

And yet when the blogger in question for this site digs up some obscure instance of law enforcement not having done the absolute best that the most awesome and well-trained human could’ve done under the most difficult circumstances imaginable, he – with the approval of the site owner – presents it as if that single anecdote is evidence of a systemic issue in policing. It’s Trump-esque DISINFORMATION.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

It’s quite funny that there are relatively few police abuse articles coming from, oh, let’s say, Europe, the only other continent with a similar amount of police.

Or Australia. I hear more about police INCOMPETENCE than abuse.

Maybe, just maybe, that the problem lies with the American police force?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

If these mythical cops you are talking about exists, why don’t we ever hear them complain and criticize the shitty cops talked about in these “obscure instances of law enforcement not having done the absolute best”??

If they are supposed to be “the most awesome and well-trained humans” shouldn’t they make sure that all their collogues also adhere to that standard?

And if they are so awesome, why do they need QI?

I think you are a little piggy that can’t stand people who point out all your flaws that you refuse to acknowledge.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You’re right about one thing, BDAC.

Calling you a piggie is a slur. For the pig.

You’re the slur. Pigs deserve better than to be associated with a deranged liar, copyright maximalist and insurrectionist scum.

Same for the cops. Comparing the police to actual pigs should be considered a slur to the pigs too.

MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

It isn’t disinformation to report the facts of when cops commit crimes, commit murder, commit theft, etc.

These instances are numerous and not obscure. And the recordings we’ve seen show that A) these aren’t well-trained humans B) some of them are trigger happy and spiteful C) the circumstances aren’t always that difficult. You’re making blanket statements across multiple scenarios that we can witness with our own eyes and ears.

The funniest part of your bias is that you’re making cops look bad by insisting that every story about police committing injustices must be accompanied by a disclaimer stating, “but other cops elsewhere didn’t do this bad thing we’re talking about, so it’s perfectly fine!”

That you think the police need to be defended against “hate speech” that is actually just the public utilizing its First Amendment rights of free speech and government redress is saying that cops are fragile weaklings who need to be coddled from legitimate criticism in order to continue to purport to do their jobs while too often committing injustices.

How about instead of you bootlicking in the comments here, you actually call for police accountability to reduce the instances of injustice committed by cops so we won’t be able to point them out and criticize them. How about you blame the people committing the injustice instead of the messengers?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Do you not see a giant red flag that none of the other cops condemn that behavior?

Of course I don’t see a giant red flag that hundreds of thousands of hardworking men & women don’t let themselves be distracted (on behalf of communists, btw) by vanishingly rare instances of professional underachievement in their field that have nothing to do with them or their departments or their communities.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

“professional underachievement”

The word you are looking for is criminal.

Cops look the other way when other cops commit crimes.

The sad and pathetic thing here is that you refuse to do any research on the topic. There are dozens of DOJ reports going back decades citing systemic behavior.

The Kansas two step is something that the entire Kansas highway patrol has been caught doing, repeatedly.

You can literally just search youtube to find video, after video, of cops across the country arresting people for video taping them.

You can look back at the opposition to transparency laws and see it is consistent across states.

So I’m going to assume at this point you are a brain dead moron who cannot read and you flunked out of high school given your inability to find basic facts.

MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

on behalf of communists, btw

Okay, General Ripper. Make sure they aren’t snapping your precious bodily fluids.

The Cold War is long over. The number of actual communists in the US is so small as to make it more rare than your false perception of how often cops commit crimes.

That you utilize a century old red scare boogey man indicates how paranoid and irrational you are and shows how quickly your assertions should be rejected.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

As I’ve said previously, there are literally tens of millions of wholesome, problem free interactions between police at every level and citizens across the entire country every year.

Probably. So what? Not stating the obvious isn’t disinformation.

The TD underling I refer to is obsessed with finding one or two examples per week out of tens of millions annually where police might’ve made mistakes or not done the best work possible.

First, comparing incidents per week to the annual total is disingenuous.

Second, several of those incidents were far beyond “mistakes” or “not the best work possible”. You’re downplaying very serious events.

Third, not every incident gets reported on here.

He then presents them as if they’re evidence of some widespread problem.

Because they are. Specifically, the lack of accountability. You are free to disagree, but that’s ultimately down to opinion.

None of this is disinformation.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

To wit: his shameful claims that the U.S. government did not censor disfavored political speech online […]

The evidence we currently have simply doesn’t demonstrate that to be the case. The same goes for Trump, so it’s not really a matter of whose views are allegedly being censored or whether or not I like those views. I just have not seen evidence that sufficiently supports that claim under current 1A jurisprudence.

and the ongoing campaign of anti-police hate speech and disinformation produced by one of his most anti-social bloggers.

I have yet to see any anti-police disinformation on this blog (I haven’t even seen anyone claim that any of the articles on police are actually false; just complaining about it without actually refuting it), and anti-police hate speech is not a thing.

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Benjamin Jay Barber says:

Stop misrepresenting 230

Go read the senate report on section 230, where they directly call the companies common carriers, and where they explicitly claim that they didn’t want to immunize “cancel-botting”.

Now read the statute, and the statute says that wanted the maximum USER control over what the USER sees on the internet, and the platforms are required to help users bring their own filtering software.

Now go back to the 1996 telecommunications act, and see that the entire “Electronic publisher” definition excludes all of these social media companies.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Why Jay, I didn’t know you were a believer of the “Usenet cabal” bullshit.

Cancel botting IS a form of moderation, which would be legal under 230, and used to cancel spam.

And yes, Mike DOES know Ron Wyden. And yet, I have not heard of Wyden saying he was misrepresented here, of all places.

Meanwhile, you, the revenge porn man, have been misrepresenting Mike and 1A by not reading what was signed into law.

You are indeed scum, like all your white supremacist buddies.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Go read the senate report on section 230, where they directly call the companies common carriers, and where they explicitly claim that they didn’t want to immunize “cancel-botting”.

Please provide a link to this report.

The date of that report might be instructive as well, given that labeling interactive computer services as common carriers was not (so far as I remember) part of the discussion at the time.

And please remember the term “Interactive Computer Services”. Not ISPs. Not Social Media Companies. Things have changed just a little since 1996, and the things senators are pontificating about today are different.

And why yes, I have gone back and read the statute.

You are referring to the policy section:

(3) to encourage the development of technologies which maximize user control over what information is received by individuals, families, and schools who use the Internet and other interactive computer services; 47 USC § 230 (b)(3).

Which is indeed one of their goals. However, please note that everywhere else in § 230, Users are given equal immunities and protections as providers. And hey, today, they can be the same thing (qv retweeting).

and the platforms are required to help users bring their own filtering software.

… that… is not in § 230, express or implied. Please cite your sources and authorities.

Rocky says:

Re: Re:

Please provide a link to this report.

He has, you can find the document here.

Read it and weep how some people can’t understand that a senate report can contain multiple sections. The document is mostly about telecommunications, broadcast and cable with some sections touching on the internet plus the 230 final draft.

He thinks the whole document is about section 230 which is why he is rambling about companies being common carriers just because it was mentioned in the other sections.

Matty did the same, neither of them has any reading comprehension worth a damn.

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MrWilson (profile) says:

Re:

Now go back to the 1996 telecommunications act, and see that the entire “Electronic publisher” definition excludes all of these social media companies.

There literally isn’t a definition of “electronic publisher” in the Telecommunications Act of 1996. The term is used a few times but never defined and it’s only used in reference to telephone services. It does talk about electronic publishing a fair bit, but only in reference to “Bell operating companies” which are specifically identified telephone service companies of the time. But the places where that is mentioned is not about or relating to section 230.

You’re pretending that terms from other sections are relevant to 230. 230 provides protection to providers and users of “an interactive computer service,” which does covers social media companies.

For your assertions to be true, only old phone companies could be protected under 230. But we have Ron Wyden’s own words to prove you wrong:

https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-remarks-at-section-230-briefing-hosted-by-eff

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

“Publisher” was in fact a well defined (primarily common law) term. It meant like a newspaper, or magazine, but not like a bookstore (which would be a distributor) and they had different liabilities. “Electronic” is presumably just that but online (like the NYT website).

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MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yeah, go ahead and pivot instead of admitting that you made up a lie about the term being defined in the statute. When it’s been proven that you don’t know what you’re talking about, saying more doesn’t fix the issue. It just means everything you say becomes suspect.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Weren’t you just giving someone else crap about them saying the term “user” was defined in Section 230 when it isn’t? And now when you get called out on doing the exact same thing with “electronic publisher” you deflect instead of owning the mistake?

Hypocrisy, thy name is Matthew M Bennett.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

The issue is that the definition for a term that doesn’t appear in §230 and that is given in a completely different section of the Telecommunications Act before CDA was tacked onto it has zero relevance to anything in §230, specifically.

Also, newspaper publishers don’t have much more liability than bookstores when it comes to letters to the editor.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Go read the senate report on section 230, where they directly call the companies common carriers…

Which particular part?

CHAPTER 5-WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION
SUBCHAPTER II-COMMON CARRIERS
Part I-Common Carrier Regulation

Nothing about common carriers elsewhere in the text. Are you engaging in deliberate misrepresentation of what you read, or are you actually this obtuse?

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Go read the senate report on section 230, where they directly call the companies common carriers […]

Which doesn’t mean they are. Also, if you ask the authors, they say quite differently.

[…] and where they explicitly claim that they didn’t want to immunize “cancel-botting”.

I don’t recall that even being a thing, so I have no clue what you’re talking about here.

Now read the statute, and the statute says that wanted the maximum USER control over what the USER sees on the internet, […]

The statute also explains how it will accomplish that: by letting companies try out different ideas for moderation (or choose not to moderate) and let users decide which they prefer. Whether or not you agree with the methods currently in use, this was the intended outcome, like it or not.

[…] and the platforms are required to help users bring their own filtering software.

I… don’t recall that appearing anywhere in §230. There is a requirement to inform users about the filtering options available and immunizing platforms for liability over the filters used by users, but nothing about helping users bring their own filtering software. Which section is that?

Of course, even assuming you’re correct, none of this conflicts with anything the bloggers on this site have said about §230. Such a requirement is entirely compatible with also allowing the platforms’ owners to moderate as they wish and with platforms also publishing content.

Now go back to the 1996 telecommunications act, and see that the entire “Electronic publisher” definition excludes all of these social media companies.

The term “electronic publisher” appears nowhere in §230, and “electronic publisher” is clearly narrower than “publisher”, so it tells us precisely nothing about the term “publisher” (or “provider”, “interactive computer service”, “publish”, “create [content]”, or “develop [content]”) as it is (they are) used in that specific statute, at least not in such a way as to exclude. I could accept your claim as true, and it would say nothing about whether or not social media companies are publishers for 1A or §230 purposes or which functions are immunized by §230.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Also, the mention of “common carriers” is about a completely different part of the law, not §230, and was specifically about companies like Bell Telephone (and ISPs), not the providers of ICSs which are at issue in §230. The mention of “cancel-botting” was specifically about removing content from another person’s server than one’s own.

Basically, you’re quoting the reports out of context.

ECA (profile) says:

Not qUITE.

“We Can’t Have Serious Discussions About Section 230 If People Keep Misrepresenting It”

Or not reading it.
Lying about it.
Listening to OTHERS about what it is.

It was the idea of WHAT newspapers WERE supposed to be, but not really. And didnt happen to the fullest extent.

Having a full, interactive, intercommunication of democracy and “What the human condition” really is.
Insted of hiding everything Humans ARE, we now get to see the Underside of it, that was hidden, and they WANT hidden.
AND as with that, we get to see the Full confusion of democracy. And hte Liers, cheats, Thieves.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Am I confused about 230? No, it is the legal scholars who are wrong!

Seriously, who knows the law better, MM, Silicon Valley conman, or Supreme Court Justices? Then for bonus points, you spent MOST of your article attacking Random Internet Guy as a stand in, and even HIM you manage to quote out of context.

I have to be brief cuz of your dim “spam” filter.

You trying to present “Creator” as if it is separate from “editor” and it is not. You also used “Distributor” casually, interchangeably with “Publisher” and it’s no such thing.

Prior to the internet, common law definitions, Publishers (newspapers) and Distributors (a bookstore) BOTH sold other people’s content. Publisher’s had very strict liability for that content and Distributors didn’t. Why? Because newspapers had editorial control over that content and bookstores didn’t. This matters. Editorial control makes it 1st party/creator.

Section 230 specifically sets out that platform shall not be considered the Publisher of 3rd party content…and even allows for very limited and specific types of editing that will not void that. Not ANY editing. Sufficient editing can make the platform the defacto owner/creator. Where that line lays is the subject of much argument.

What if FB ONLY allowed posts that said Biden was a KKK member? All of FB would be saying he was a grand wizard. That would pretty clearly be defamatory. That would be a choice FACEBOOK made, even if users wrote the content.

Gorsuch is not confused about this you are. And you’re emotionally unprepared to admit it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Gorsuch is not confused about this you are.

If only there was a way you could tell them that instead of posting it here, where it’ll inevitably be flagged as the spam that it is.

I fail to understand why all these great minds aren’t listening to you, given your prominence on this site as the village idiot. It should count for something shouldn’t it buddy?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Editorial control makes it 1st party/creator.

Sufficient editing can make the platform the defacto owner/creator.

“Editing” and “editorial control” are not the same thing.

You are correct that EDITING 3rd party content would make it 1st party content because you have now participated in the creation of the content.

However, exerting editorial control, like deleting the post entirely, would NOT make it 1st party content.

What if FB ONLY allowed posts that said Biden was a KKK member? All of FB would be saying he was a grand wizard. That would pretty clearly be defamatory. That would be a choice FACEBOOK made, even if users wrote the content.

Best Western International, Inc. v. Furber disagrees.

“BWI claims that the homepage impliedly suggests that visitors should make statements defaming BWI. The Court does not agree. But even if this were true, it is insufficient to strip Furber of CDA immunity”

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

“429 Too many requests” errors are a thing that users experience. Even those who aren’t frantically dreaming up crass insults about Masnick. I know, I’ve encountered them. Even when there’s been days in between posts.

And frankly, I don’t lose my mind over it. But then I’m not a Republican.

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