Masculine Policy: The GOP’s Plan To Outlaw ‘Porn’ And Suspend The First Amendment 

from the this-shit-is-getting-way-out-of-hand dept

Does watching porn threaten your masculinity? Science says it doesn’t

Is porn addictive? No, it’s not. Is sexual expression that is consenting legally protected by the First Amendment? Yes, it is

So, why do Republicans fight to restrict or outlaw pornography across the United States? 

There are several reasons. First, religious conservatives have long argued that pornography and non-traditional sexual expression were an insult to God or something like that. 

Second, the post-Trump GOP is rife with hate for virtually anything related to sexual freedom, like LGBTQ+ equality and representation in mainstream culture. 

Shit, just look at how triggered the right got with the Dylan Mulvaney campaign for the domestic beer brand Bud Light. 

Or the push in schools to censor classical literature, such as the works of William Shakespeare.

All of this follows the same line of reasoning. And that reasoning is that Republicans and right-wing folks are conditioned and fearful of a true counterculture built for the digital age. 

The internet, tech, social media, video games, streaming services, porn, and many other standard fixtures in online culture and digital life feed this belief that a shadowy cabal of leftist elites wants to destroy the United States

This is a mass panic attack over manufactured or overblown fears. But this isn’t going to stop far-right politicians and their allies from capitalizing on this fear

Consider a case scenario. I originally pitched this column to Techdirt to address the political and cultural worldview of Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri. 

Sen. Hawley has carved out a conservative persona built on how hard he pushes a depiction of the ideal example of classic American “masculinity.” 

In his most recent book on culture and the role of men in society, Manhood: The Masculine Virtues America Needs, Hawley espouses a worldview that relies heavily on debunked notions of masculinity that do not correspond to present-day life

While his book is touted in conservative circles as a text of insight, most people either don’t care about Hawley’s musings or he’s being mocked by a growing number of men’s groups who say that his views on masculinity are toxic, chauvinistic, and highly homophobic. 

Washington Post reporter Tara Bahrampour recently reported on groups taking an alternative approach to a so-called cowboy mentality.

The alternative these groups advocate for leaves room for vulnerability and the development of emotional intelligence and intimacy with romantic partners and friends—especially men. 

In my view, the approach of a more vulnerable and accepting masculinity has very little to do with one’s hobbies, career choices, sexual interests, or political viewpoints. 

Building on this moral panic and the fear that leftists are turning American men into total betas, Hawley resorts to his famed belief that playing video games or watching pornography denies one’s ability to be entirely masculine. He sounds like those annoying pro-semen retention “alpha male” life coaches on X.

Worldviews like Hawley’s and these so-called alpha male grifters manifest into political and social action that emulates much of the modern GOP. I used Sen. Hawley’s nonsense as a framing device for this column because his politics and worldview accurately reflect the outrageously misguided claims of a coalition of socially conservative think tanks. DAME Magazine reported on a right-wing think tank-backed initiative called Project 2025

The project is essentially a conceptual framework for a conservative (not GOP, which is hilariously ironic) president-elect if the 2024 Presidential Election results favor a potential Republican nominee. It’s like a pre-transition blueprint for a possible Republican presidential transition team. 

Project 2025’s main product is a long-winded guide on Republican-backed policies dealing with everything from defense spending, taxation policy, foreign policy, climate change, environmental policy, safety-net and welfare administration, immigration, social justice issues, and others.

These recommendations are bound together in the project’s official policy guide, Mandate for Leadership: The Conservative Promise.

DAME contributor Brynn Tannehill characterized this as the Project 2025 “playbook.” I call it a hyperpartisan manifesto that seeks to set back American democratic processes by over five decades. Compiled and written by researchers and fellows at dozens of groups like the Heritage Foundation, Independent Women’s Forum, and Southern Poverty Law Center-labeled hate groups like Moms for Liberty, Mandate for Leadership calls for aggressive action against what these people view as pornography. In a foreword by Heritage Foundation’s president Kevin D Roberts, he outlines a vision of a United States free of “pornography.” Here are some selected passages from the very frighteningly short-sighted, fascistic, and irrational words of Roberts:

“Look at America under the ruling and cultural elite today:…children suffer the toxic normalization of transgenderism with drag queens and pornography invading their school libraries.”

“Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection.

“Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as an illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned.”

“Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.”

Is that a free America? I think not. Not only does Roberts openly state that the right to free speech should be suspended, he wishes to criminalize “pornographers.” 

Using his loaded parlance, the term in this context refers to not just online tube site operators, adult film producers, consenting performers, and a regulated entertainment industry subject to scrutiny by the U.S. Department of Justice at any time; he lumps in young adult authors, teachers, school administrators, librarians, tech companies, doctors, transgender rights activists, drag queens, and the parents of LGBTQ+ youth into the same category. 

Roberts adds that American citizens do not need reproductive rights, bodily autonomy, so-called gender ideology, critical race theory, or sex education in school. Instead, he and his colleagues support a 1950s-esque pro-family mantra that is only ideal to straight Christian conservative types who listen to gospel music and cultishly watch alarmist talking heads on Fox News. 

In all fairness, some groups collaborating on this project aren’t “far-right” or even worried about the implications of far-reaching religious conservatism. These particular groups are mainly astroturf groups for large corporations and are only engaged to push for loosening specific regulations, like climate policy. But their involvement and affiliation with Heritage and legitimate hate groups advocating for the censorship of speech protected by the First Amendment completely overshadows any well-meaning intent behind their contributions, regardless of their subject matter being solely focused on freer economics and government regulatory drawbacks. 

Let that sink in, everybody. 

Focusing on the Heritage Foundation, this blueprint relies on the belief that big tech firms are making kids trans or that requiring age verification to access social media or porn is a viable policy to counter child sexual exploitation online. Heritage Foundation personnel openly admitted to using the proposed Kids Online Safety Act to block youth from accessing content that deals with LGBTQ+ subject material, even if the material in question isn’t legally considered pornography per case law and most mainstream interpretations of the obscenity statutes. 

Heritage and company also advocate criminalizing pornography, as stated in that all-American Mein Kampf sequel I quoted above. The Mandate also calls for repealing Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996. They also call for TikTok to be banned because of the right’s Sino-phobic belief that Communist China is about to destroy their biggest consumer goods market.

And, I renew the claim that all of this is intrinsically connected and is a derivative of the views held by folks like Sen. Hawley as they relate to masculinity and politics in the United States. Think of the Mandate of Leadership as “Josh-Hawley-ism” in practice. 

You can read all of this on the Project 2025 website. Be sure to have your barf bag ready because this uncontrollable dumpster fire of a policy treatise is one of the most pretentious, racist, sexist, anti-science, xenophobic, anti-freedom, and anti-American things I’ve ever read. 

Michael McGrady covers the tech and legal sides of the online porn business. He is the contributing editor for AVN.com, covering politics, adult business, and legal. 

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Comments on “Masculine Policy: The GOP’s Plan To Outlaw ‘Porn’ And Suspend The First Amendment ”

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Whenever freedom is eroded, porn will always go first, since few people will publicly defend it. Someone may cheer if it gets banned, but eventually, something they value will become the thing nobody is willing to publicly defend. Republicans already know this⁠—and weaponize it to a frightening degree. Same-sex kissing in movies? “That’s porn.” A book about a girl with two mommies? “Yep, porn.” Age-appropriate sex education? “Oh that is hella porn.” They know how well the phrase “protecting kids” serves these efforts. But this isn’t about “protecting” kids, so much as it’s about controlling them⁠—much like how this fight against porn isn’t about the porn, so much as it’s about opening a door to censoring content that conservatives don’t like.

And since I know some dipshit troll will try to twist what I’m saying here: I don’t support children being exposed to porn, I don’t support porn being in public libraries, and I support age-appropriate sex education because it’s proven to help prevent the sexual assault of children.

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T.L. (profile) says:

Re:

…not to mention, avoid riskier sexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies and STDs, which are all of importance to prevent (myself being unplanned, with mental health difficulties resulting from my not-quite-stable upbringing).

The only way to cut through the “think of the children” ruse is to expose it to a broader audience as a means to use protecting children to further the erosion of civil liberties, and not actually protect children. (The fact that “conservatives” advocating for this kind of thing have advocated for making children less safe in other ways as evidenced by laws passed or proposed in a few GOP-led states that allow younger teens to work as bartenders or construction workers as well as a couple of proposed laws that would lower the age of consent to marry, illustrate this.)

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

The only way to cut through the “think of the children” ruse is to expose it to a broader audience as a means to use protecting children to further the erosion of civil liberties, and not actually protect children.

Important to note: Whenever conservatives say “think of the children”, they never mean “think of the marginalized children”. Their vision of “the children” is pretty much the same as their vision of “people who matter”: straight, White, cisgender, Christian, and male. (If they cared about girls as anything other than potential breeding stock, they wouldn’t try so hard to force girls who’ve been made pregnant via rape to carry those pregnancies to term.)

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T.L. (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

…and as I pointed out with the note regarding the child labor and marriage laws, the “think of the children” claim being applied even to what they would consider “children who matter” is thin even when applied to them.

If you’re a legislator drafting laws that would allow teens to be hired for jobs that are strenuous or involve interacting with substances they legally cannot consume or making it easier for adults to marry minors, you can’t claim that you are protecting kids and expect anyone who does some degree of critical thinking to believe it with a straight face.

Anonymous Coward says:

They are not stupid

The only requirement to be a successful politician is the ability to attract votes.

They don’t need knowledge about the subjects they are making decisions on.

They don’t have to be moral, or ethical, or even competent.

They merely need the ability to attract votes.

They create anger by lying to win votes, and it works.

They are corrupt, but not stupid (mostly). And they know that when they rile up the idiots, they get more votes.

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Whoever says:

"religious conservatives"

First, religious conservatives have long argued that pornography and non-traditional sexual expression were an insult to God

Those same “religious” conservatives believe Jesus was some kind of commie with wild ideas that they reject.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: 'The only Jesus we accept is REPUBLICAN Jesus!'

I’ve long found funny the idea and all but certainty that if Jesus did come back for his second tour he would be killed again in under a month(at most) by his ‘devoutest’ followers for being a heretical, liberal socialist commie.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

According to the text of the Bible, Jesus was a Jewish man of color, born homeless to an unwed teenager, who spent his formative years as an illegal immigrant before returning to his home country to hang out with twelve men, prostitutes, and socially untouchable tax collectors while he taught a radical social doctrine of equality, love, and forgiveness that included paying taxes, free healthcare, and the sharing of resources within a community.

Anyone who tells that to a conservative American Christian would likely get punched in the mouth. Except in Texas⁠—where they’d be shot instead.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

And the historical Jesus?

Apparently a skilled Jewish laborer (carpentry was really useful back in the 1st Century CE) who became a small-time apocalyptic prophet in an industry full of them, whose only claim to fame was being crucified for trying to stir up insurrection against the Roman Empire.

That is the academic consensus for the historical Jesus.

Fuckin’ NeoNazis will, at best, see “crucified for insurrection”.

ke9tv (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Apparently a skilled Jewish laborer (carpentry was really useful back in the 1st Century CE)

The word that’s used in the Greek New Testament translates just as well as ‘building contractor’. Which makes sense to answer the question of what Joseph and Mary were doing in Bethlehem: there was rather a building boom going on in the last years of the first century BCE, while contracting jobs in Nazareth of Galilee might have been a bit scarce.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: 'If he's not justifying my bigotry and aggression then what use is he?!'

It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — “turn the other cheek” — [and] to have someone come up after to say, “Where did you get those liberal talking points?” And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, “I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,” the response would not be, “I apologize.” The response would be, “Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak.” And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.

I’m reminded of a quote attributed to Ghandhi:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

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That One Guy (profile) says:

'Admitting that LGBTQ people exist? Why that's wildly pornographic!'

‘We must keep porn out of the hands of children!’ might sound good at first glance but when you add the not-so-silent part that those saying it consider anything not heterosexual to be ‘pornographic’ it becomes starkly and horrifyingly clear what they’re actually calling for.

Add in that tiny but important detail and ‘We must keep porn away from kids’ is exposed as ‘We must once more make taboo the concept that it is acceptable to be anything but heterosexual, and vilify anyone who is or says otherwise’.

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Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Anything not heterosexal

I’d say anything not heterosexual and not 20th century Christian normative.

For instance, they’re not big on families in which mom has a distinguished career but dad manages the homestead and children.

In 21st century abstinence-only sex education they make it super clear boys have no business asking girls out until they have salary enough to afford a substantial diamond, and girls are expected to fold their hands and wait.

(It’s very close to the same situation that started the Herbivore Men movement in Japan, where guys decide relationships according to the family-approved structure are way too problematic to bother.)

fairuse (profile) says:

I know. The fundamental Christian view of p0rn is exterminate (VO: Daleks).

The problem fundamental religion has is not that different than what a cult has – there is no room for other ideas at the table. The “Right-To-Life” fundamental Christians also view abortion (VO: Daleks, exterminate).

There is a trend to label this small and noisy group “The GOP” in the press (scary quote required). MAYBE [fundamental] religion is forgetful of other people’s right to attend church they choose and say 1st amendment is for all. P0rn was settled by Larry Flint and feds if I recall.

Project 2025 – In a foreword by Heritage Foundation’s president Kevin D Roberts, he outlines a vision of a United States free of “pornography.”

Easy answer is p0rn is not going anywhere. BTW Mr. Roberts, is it left or right hand that gets cut off first offense viewing p0rn?

mechtheist (profile) says:

It's Christianity all the way down

The profoundly toxic views of those like Hawley evidence the unbound arrogance of a mindset that sees fit to force its own views of acceptable behavior on all, born of a certainty that only arises through faith/cults, idolatry, or other fundamentalists bents. These are diseased minds, they’re delusional minds. This is quite evident in how I’d bet 90-95% of them will see themselves as doing god’s will, the christian god, and would happily quote scripture to support their claims, scripture from the bible, a book filled with sexual deviancy and horrific behavior towards children.

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Draph91 (profile) says:

If it makes anyone feel better

I’m quoting an NY Times article here:

Republicans who have called for their party to accept climate change said they were disappointed by the blueprint and worried about the direction of the party.

Sarah Hunt, president of the Joseph Rainey Center for Public Policy, which works with Republican state officials on energy needs said this “I think its out-of-touch Beltway silliness and it’s not meeting Americans where they are.”

She called efforts to repeal the Inflation Reduction Act, which is pouring money and jobs overwhelmingly into red states, particularly impractical.

“Obviously as conservatives we’re concerned about fiscal responsibility, but if you look at what Republican voters think, a lot of Republicans in red states show strong support for provisions of the I.R.A.”

Representative John Curtis, Republican of Utah, who launched a conservative climate caucus, called it “vital that Republicans engage in supporting good energy and climate policy.”

Without directly commenting on the G.O.P. blueprint, Mr. Curtis said “I look forward to seeing the solutions put forward by the various presidential candidates and hope there is a robust debate of ideas to ensure we have reliable, affordable and clean energy.”
Benji Backer, executive chairman and founder of the American Conservation Coalition, a group of young Republicans who want climate action, said he felt Project 2025 was wrongheaded.

“If they were smart about this issue they would have taken approach that said ‘the Biden administration has done things in a way they don’t agree with but here’s our vision’,” he said. “Instead they remove it from being a priority.”

He noted climate change is a real concern among young Republicans. By a nearly two-to-one margin, polls have found, Republicans aged 18 to 39 years old are more likely to agree that “human activity contributes a great deal to climate change,” and that the federal government has a role to play in curbing it.

Of Project 2025, he said, “This sort of approach on climate is not acceptable to the next generation.”

Sadly I have no idea if any other parts of this blueprint are being opposed by republicans

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Anonymous Coward says:

Unfortunately, while definitely not the same as the Republican party, the Drmocratic party is willing to empower the GOP. They’ve voted for FOSTA/SESTA in large numbers and Virginia majority Democrats voted for an age verification law for porn, further empowering the movement. And there is still Democrat support for KOSA. We have to call out and hold accountable any Democrat that plays along with Republicans.

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Anonymous Coward says:

As usual, while TechDirt pretend to support freedom of speech, what they actually want is third-party censorship of viewpoints they don’t like. The sister article to this one is TechDirt once again criticizing X, this time over not (immediately) censoring posts by the New American Union.

It is not supportive of freedom of speech to ask for that freedom to be taken away by third parties not bound by the 1st Amendment, no matter how much you hate the opinions being expressed. There are people who hate porn and trans ideology just as much as you hate Nazis. In a free society, you don’t get to leave up the things you like while the things you hate get removed.

The grimly funniest thing about some of those “books for children” is that many mainstream outlets won’t publish the images from those books that groups like Moms4Liberty seek to have banned, because those images violate their own standards of what they allow to be shown. (Rather reminiscent of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons.)

It’s also funny that you refer disparagingly to the Dylan Mulvaney incident while advocating for the same thing. You think advertisers should depart X for fear of appearing next to content they don’t like. Well, that’s what people did with Bud Light; they didn’t like buying something that appeared in association with the support for a man claiming to be a woman, and so they stopped buying the beer.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Yes. A site has a 1st Amendment right to decide whether to ban a user. Even if the user does something illegal, the site may choose to evaluate the purported reason for the act and decide that the motive justifies the act, just as with other cases of civil disobedience. If you believe that the user should be punished for breaking the law, you are free to report them to the authorities once Tim Cushing approves.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Hyman.

CSAM material is illegal to post, regardless of intent or motive.

Facts don’t give a fuck about your feelings OR your ideology, and defending the posting of child abuse is… vile, even though it is in character for the NeoNazis.

As always, Hyman, once we all are dead, you’re next.

I’ll see you in Hell.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

All acts of civil disobedience are illegal. It is up to the site owner to decide whether the person who committed the act there did so for a plausible reason, and if so, choose not to ban them. Unlike the government (viz., the BLM street defacers in D.C.), this is not required to be viewpoint-neutral. You do not get to decide this for someone else.

If you would like the person to be punished for their illegal act, you can try reporting them to the authorities once Tim Cushing approves.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

The kicker?

The Nazis are supporting crime. Crimes that are worse than the shit they rail against.

If that’s the case, then I should be allowed to do things almost as heinous. Like rob them.

And I do not endorse theft or anything deemed criminal in a country’s criminal codes.

Though it would seem that the insurrectionist Nazis want us to use their logic against them…

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Rather, I am defending a site owner who chose not to permanently ban a user who made such a posting.

As I have already explained, it is not uncommon for photographs of atrocities to be widely hailed. The two famous photographs from Vietnam, showing a naked girl fleeing a napalm attack and a man being executed, both won Pulitzer prizes. There are many photographs of Holocaust victims, both corpses and survivors. The fact that disseminating certain photographs has been made illegal does not say anything about the motive of someone who does so anyway in defiance of the law.

You and TechDirt want to use this as another means to attack Elon Musk, because he refuses to provide you with the third-party censorship of viewpoints that you hate, especially because Twitter used to provide that censorship.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

I see you are prepared to revictimize sexually tortured children just so you can force yourself upon others.

A normal person would realize that there are some things you just don’t do but apparently you lack those kind of limits. I’m not very surprised by that fact when considering your history here.

You and TechDirt want to use this as another means to attack Elon Musk, because he refuses to provide you with the third-party censorship of viewpoints that you hate, especially because Twitter used to provide that censorship.

I guess we interpret the above to mean you think posting CSAM is a viewpoint that you support.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

You may interpret things as you like; I am not responsible for your delusions, although I may choose to correct them.

Many victims of crimes and other attacks have had their pictures published in the media, including of their victimized state. People do not, in general, have the right to have these images scrubbed from public view even when they feel harmed by having those images seen. Child pornography does have case law that allows victims to sue anyone who has viewed their images for harm, even when they did not know at the time that such viewing was happening. That’s a dubious construct, but piling on to sex offenders is popular; just as you are doing here, people who would regard this as unjust are portrayed as defenders of the criminal acts.

In any case, X did not permit the posted child pornography to remain available for viewing. They decided (I believe; I only know about this peripherally) that the user had posted the image in an attempt to draw attention to a problem, not to further it, and therefore chose not to ban the user permanently. They have the right to do that – there is no legal requirement a user must be banned for posting illegal material. If you believe that user should be legally punished for what he did, and have information to support that, you should report him to the authorities if Tim Cushing allows it.

The reason you and TechDirt are eager to criticize Elon Musk for this event is that Twitter used to provide private-party censorship of viewpoints you hated, unfettered by the 1st Amendment, and now X no longer provides such censorship.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

They decided … that the user had posted the image in an attempt to draw attention to a problem

Cool motive! Still distributing CSAM.

Seriously, Hyman, what makes you so adamant about protecting the people who create and/or distribute images of actual children actually being raped?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

I am defending a site owner who chose not to permanently ban a user who made such a posting.

And in so doing, you are defending that user from facing the same consequence that any other person would and should face on any other platform: a permanent ban. You are thus implying that someone who posts an image of a toddler being raped and tortured by an adult⁠—an image that was originally made and distributed by either that adult or an accomplice to that heinous crime⁠—should face less of a punishment than someone who violates the TOS by saying racial slurs.

it is not uncommon for photographs of atrocities to be widely hailed

A photographer in a war zone isn’t personally victimizing people or exacerbating the effects of war by documenting those effects. A child abuser who films their abuse is actually abusing a child, and their decision to trade CSAM exacerbates the abuse⁠—of that child, and of other children. You can keep trying to defend CSAM as equal to pictures of war crimes, but all you’ll be doing is defending the sexual abuse of children.

The fact that disseminating certain photographs has been made illegal does not say anything about the motive of someone who does so anyway in defiance of the law.

The fact that distributing CSAM is illegal does say something about the motive of people who distribute CSAM: “These people want to celebrate and even justify the sexual abuse of children of any age.” But please, keep talking about how CSAM creators are like war zone photographers.

You and TechDirt want to use this as another means to attack Elon Musk, because he refuses to provide you with the third-party censorship of viewpoints that you hate

If Musk wants to turn Twitter into an alt-right playground where Nazism is celebrated and “wokeism” is maligned, I generally don’t care beyond how it affects the few artists whose work I keep tabs on via Twitter. But no other social media service worth a good god’s damn has any tolerance whatsoever for CSAM. Even 4chan, a site that literally deemed itself “The Internet Hate Machine”, now has a more zero-tolerance policy on CSAM than Twitter thanks to Elon Musk.

Even if Musk were to somehow run Twitter in a way that makes me happy, his decision in this case would still be objectively horrifying. That you don’t share that point of view⁠—that you actively refuse to condemn not only Musk’s decision, but CSAM in general⁠—tells me that you’re either a troll who is so far up his own ass that even other trolls would think you’re batshit crazy or a member of NAMBLA. Neither option speaks well of you, and one speaks so poorly of you that I seriously hope “Hyman Rosen” isn’t your actual government name.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

As usual, you hallucinate imaginary versions of me who say what you want them to say.

The person who was unbanned on X did not create the image he posted. If his motive was to engender outrage at people who do create such material, it is no different than other photographers who disseminate pictures of atrocities, except that these pictures have been declared illegal. But people choose to do illegal things all the time in furtherance of points of view they feel are insufficiently supported.

It is up to the owners of a platform to decide whether illegal actions taken on that platform should result in that user being permanently banned. It is plausible for owners to consider motives when making such decisions. You want to disparage Musk because he refuses to provide the censorship of viewpoints you dislike the way Twitter used to.

I support having the possession and dissemination of child pornography images involving actual children be illegal. I do not support people being punished for wrong-think, which would include making illegal written stories, drawn images, generated images, or compilations of otherwise legal images. I am dubious about claimed harms from people who did not know that their images were being viewed, and that each such viewing is a separate actionable harm, but the law can do what it wants here.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

People often commit illegal acts as civil disobedience to draw attention to issues that concern them. There is no law requiring that a site that has been the location of such an illegal act to take steps to bar the person who committed it from future access, especially if they are on the same side of the issue. The illegal act itself may be subject to prosecution, but it is up to legal authorities to pursue that.

Legal codes are not being followed either when liberals’ favored victim groups are allowed to loot stores with impunity, defecate on streets, break into cars, and assault members of slightly less-favored groups. Unfortunately, the legal authorities often pick and choose which crimes to punish and which to ignore. If you believe that the person who posted the image on X has violated the law, you should report him to the authorities once Tim Cushing allows you to, and try to have him prosecuted.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

People often commit illegal acts as civil disobedience to draw attention to issues that concern them.

Yes or no: Do you really believe anyone needs to be convinced, only by being shown CSAM, that CSAM/child abuse is a serious issue that needs addressing?

There is no law requiring that a site that has been the location of such an illegal act to take steps to bar the person who committed it from future access

If a platform allows that person to remain on the platform, the chances that the platform will face the same punishment as the person will drastically rise. And in case you’ve forgotten, Section 230 doesn’t protect platforms if they knowingly violate the law. Letting someone who posted CSAM stay on the platform seems like a damn good way to make sure 230 protections don’t apply to that platform.

Legal codes are not being followed either when liberals’ favored victim groups are allowed to loot stores with impunity, defecate on streets, break into cars, and assault members of slightly less-favored groups.

Careful, Hyman⁠—your whataboutism is showing.

If you believe that the person who posted the image on X has violated the law, you should report him to the authorities

For what reason shouldn’t Twitter be the one doing the reporting, considering how Elon Musk personally had the account unbanned after admitting the account posted CSAM?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Beats me. It’s not something I follow, except for seeing the occasional news story of an international ring being busted. I know from publicity around Sound of Freedom that there are conservatives who feel that insufficient attention is being paid to child sex trafficking, so maybe this is related. It may be a QAnon thing.

You are fantasizing legal processes so that you can continue to blame Musk, because you hate that X no longer provides the censorship you crave.

Asking why you should do the reporting instead of X is also whataboutism, isn’t it? And have you acquired information that X did not, in fact, report the incident? Is it usual for social media organizations to report each such incident?

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

I know from publicity around Sound of Freedom that there are conservatives who feel that insufficient attention is being paid to child sex trafficking, so maybe this is related.

Irrelevant. Nothing can justify posting to Twitter a photo of a child being raped.

You are fantasizing legal processes so that you can continue to blame Musk

Elon Musk is the owner of Twitter. Either by dictate to Twitter staff or by direct action, he unbanned a user who posted CSAM to Twitter. Don’t you think he deserves blame if Twitter ends up facing sanctions (or worse) over his actions?

Asking why you should do the reporting instead of X is also whataboutism, isn’t it?

Comparing the destruction of property to the rape of a child as if the former is equivalent to, or somehow worse than, the latter is most certainly a case of whataboutism.

Is it usual for social media organizations to report each such incident?

For social media sites the size of Twitter? Yes. Yes, it is.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

Your feelings about what may be justified to not require that anyone else believe as you do.

Your hallucination is that X will face legal sanctions over unbanning a user. But do get back to me when that happens, and I’ll admit that I was wrong.

The aggregate destructiveness of allowing civilizational breakdown is far worse than individual cases of people behaving horrifically and being punished for it by a system that takes care to pursue such people. You don’t want to see that because the breakdown is being caused by people who believe as you do.

Do you know that X did not, in fact, report this incident?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

The person who was unbanned on X did not create the image he posted

Irrelevant. Posting CSAM is still against Twitter’s TOS. The only possible justification for unbanning an account that posted CSAM is “the account was legitimately hacked”, and that’s it.

If his motive was to engender outrage at people who do create such material, it is no different than other photographers who disseminate pictures of atrocities

Did the war zone photographer commit, or help commit, the atrocity they’re depicting? If not: Therein lies the difference between documenting a war crime and documenting the commission of child abuse.

It is up to the owners of a platform to decide whether illegal actions taken on that platform should result in that user being permanently banned.

Practically every other platform on the Internet⁠—including alt-right shitpits like Gab and even Donald Trump’s Truth Social⁠—all have policies that ban people who try to distribute CSAM through those platforms. Twitter has that policy, too. But Musk undercut the policy by unbanning someone who posted CSAM because…I guess he likes the account holder? (He did offer monetization advice to that user, after all.) What am I supposed to think about that, other than “Elon will let someone he likes post child porn on the platform he owns and escape punishment for doing so”?

You want to disparage Musk because he refuses to provide the censorship of viewpoints you dislike the way Twitter used to.

If what Musk did happened on the Mastodon instance I’m on, I’d decry the admins, jump ship to a new instance, and add the old instance ot my list of blocked instances. My opposition to what Musk did has nothing to do with his politics (or how they inform how he runs Twitter) and everything to do with the fact that he unbanned someone who knowingly and intentionally posted CSAM. Nobody should get away with doing that shit on any platform regardless of the politics of that platform or its owner(s).

I support having the possession and dissemination of child pornography images involving actual children be illegal.

Considering how you literally pointed to a list of countries where possession of CSAM is legal as part of your defense of Musk unbanning someone who posted CSAM on Twitter? I don’t believe you.

I do not support people being punished for wrong-think, which would include making illegal written stories, drawn images, generated images, or compilations of otherwise legal images.

And yet, you’re here defending the idea that someone on Twitter should remain unbanned after posting an image of a real child suffering real sexual assault at the hands of a real adult. We’re not talking about furry cub porn or a straight shota doujin here, fam⁠—we’re talking about a photograph of a toddler being raped and tortured by an adult. You’re the one defending the idea that the person who posted that photo shouldn’t face any consequences for it beyond having their post deleted, Hyman. I’m telling you how fucked up you are for believing that.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

The owner of a site does not have to follow his own terms of service if he does not want to, just as the founders of the United States declared that all men are created equal while still allowing slavery. The owner of a site does not need to care if some users of the site disagree with or disapprove of the way he enforces his terms of service. There is no requirement that the owner of a site punish a member for violating terms of service, even illegally, if he does not want to.

The user (presumably; I only know of this incident from a distance) posted an already existing image of child pornography because he believes that insufficient attention is being paid to the problem. The act may be illegal, but so are many acts of civil disobedience. The picture may be horrific, but so are many other prize-winning pictures of atrocities. If you believe that person should be punished for his actions, report him to the proper authorities after Tim Cushing gives you permission, and see whether they agree with you.

As always, the true point of all this is to disparage Musk because he refuses to provide you with the third-party censorship of viewpoints you dislike.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

There is no requirement that the owner of a site punish a member for violating terms of service, even illegally, if he does not want to.

The authorities might take issue with a site owner letting someone break the law on that site and doing nothing about it, though. Deleting a post may not be enough to stop a full-bore investigation into why the user wasn’t banned⁠—or reported to the authorities, for that matter.

The rest of your bullshit is just a repeat of shit I’ve already dismantled, so I’ll leave it at this: You cannot justify, for any reason, the knowing and intentional posting of CSAM to a public-facing website. Sharing CSAM for any reason is illegal in the United States for a reason, and the fact that sharing CSAM exacerbates child abuse is that reason. I know you don’t care about that because you’d rather focus on CSAM being a free speech issue, but you could at least try to seem like you care.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

A plausible justification for posting an image of child pornography is to draw people’s attention to the the user’s belief that insufficient action is being taken to stop it. Many people take illegal actions in the belief that they are justified. The fact that you do not consider this action properly justified means only that you would not choose to take such an action; no one else is required to share your beliefs.

If you believe that legal action should be taken against that user or against the site that he used, you should report both to legal authorities once Tim Cussing gives his permission.

The legal issues around child pornography vis-à-vis free speech have been largely settled, mostly in ways that I am fine with. I believe the courts have held that it is possible to prosecute people for assembling compilations of legal images, and I disagree with that. And of course there have been cases of legitimate artists being persecuted for photographing nude children. (Legitimate as in having well-established careers as photographic artists. Deciding who is a legitimate artist is something the government should never be doing.)

As always, I will repeat as necessary to correct your incessantly repetitive errors.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

A plausible justification for posting an image of child pornography is

Nothing can justify knowingly and intentionally posting CSAM on the Internet.

The legal issues around child pornography vis-à-vis free speech have been largely settled, mostly in ways that I am fine with.

Again: The fact that you view CSAM as a First Amendment/free speech issue rather than a child abuse issue says a lot about you, and precisely 0.0% of it is positive.

I believe the courts have held that it is possible to prosecute people for assembling compilations of legal images, and I disagree with that.

And if we were talking about that sort of situation, I might care. But we’re talking about⁠—and I hate having to repeat this, but you seem to keep ignoring this fact⁠—a photograph of a toddler being raped and tortured by an adult. Making, possessing, and distributing that kind of image is illegal. That you care more about the legalities of owning such images rather than the fact that a child had to be raped to create such images marks you as either a sociopath, a pedophile, or both⁠—and none of those options make you look good in any way.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

Yes, I understand that you feel that way. Your feelings, however, are your own; no one else is obligated to believe as you do, just as no one is obligated to believe that men can be women even though you believe that.

Of course child pornography is a 1st Amendment issue. Aside from the person who commits the original crime and records it, subsequent acts are nothing more than the copying and dissemination of images. That falls squarely under the 1st Amendment, and required the Supreme Court to carve out exceptions to it, which it did in 1982 in New York v. Ferber, saying that child pornography need not be obscene in order to be banned.

If you would like people to be prosecuted for owning images of child pornography, then the legalities of such ownership must matter. In this particular case, if you believe that the user in question has committed a crime, you should report him to the authorities once you obtain permission from Tim Cushing. I never saw the image in question or know who the user is, so I cannot do it.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

I understand that you feel that way.

You don’t. You really, really don’t. But keep lying to yourself like that.

Of course child pornography is a 1st Amendment issue.

You really don’t fucking get it, man. The larger issue surrounding CSAM isn’t whether it’s protected speech⁠—it’s that CSAM perpetuates further abuse of children. That you think the free speech issue is the more important issue? That’s incredibly fucked up.

If you would like people to be prosecuted for owning images of child pornography, then the legalities of such ownership must matter.

And the legality should be simple enough to understand: If you distribute a picture of a child being raped, your ass should go to jail.

once you obtain permission from Tim Cushing

Dude, what the fuck is your obsession with Tim Cushing domming people? Like, why the fuck do you think you, I, or anyone else needs his permission to do any-goddamn-thing? Is this a sex thing for you or some shit?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:14

Freedom of speech allows all sorts of content that other people don’t like. Disseminating child pornography is a form of speech. In order to prohibit that, regardless of the good reasons for doing so, the 1st Amendment issues must be addressed. Which the Supreme Court did in 1982. Of course you have trouble understanding that, because TechDirt and its commenters hate free speech.

Legalities are seldom simple, but if it pleases you to think so, I don’t really care.

Tim Cushing is another example of the degeneration of TechDirt into nonsense. He finds every case of law enforcement misconduct that he can and spins each into an article. I figured that as a TechDirt regular who sides with the house, you would want to check with him before involving law enforcement. (If you want to imagine that every time I write a reply to you I’m laughing at you, you wouldn’t be wrong.)

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:16

As usual, you hallucinate imaginary versions of me who say what you want then to say. In this particular case, you also demonstrate yourself incapable of reading. Not surprising, since you consistently show yourself to be an idiot, no matter how many times TechDirt chooses to pat itself on the back by designating your idiocy as insightful.

The good reasons are for prohibiting child pornography, not for distributing it.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

If what Musk did happened on the Mastodon instance I’m on, I’d decry the admins, jump ship to a new instance, and add the old instance ot my list of blocked instances. My opposition to what Musk did has nothing to do with his politics (or how they inform how he runs Twitter) and everything to do with the fact that he unbanned someone who knowingly and intentionally posted CSAM. Nobody should get away with doing that shit on any platform regardless of the politics of that platform or its owner(s).

Of all the times not to use that argument their use of it as they defend someone for posting CSAM, and Elon for giving that user their account back really says the quiet part out loud, and barring them explicitly condemning both that user and Elon making a very strong case that they think CSAM is a ‘viewpoint’ that people wrongly have a problem with.

Samuel Abram (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

All acts of civil disobedience are illegal.

A couple thoughts:
1. Because posting CSAM is totally analogous to protesting segregation or colonization. You sick fuck.
2. Civil Disobedience–by its very definition–requires the person being civilly disobedient to accept the consequences of their disobedience. Elon refuses to even pay his bills. You’re making a disingenuous argument.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Hyman.

Firstly, we’re not in the countries where it’s legal to own, let alone post, such material.

Secondly, for all your grandstanding about protecting the children and free expression, you have done neither to show you care either about children or free expression.

You’re the one abusing anonymous posting after being repeatedly told you’re not welcome due to your speech.

You’re the one defending children being raped for personal enjoyment. Oh, and the creation of such material.

I’m aware of what civil disobedience should be. Riots, protests, boycotts, teaching the marginalized to assert their rights…

And in none of those fit “posting CSAM material”.

If you can’t get that into your Nazi skull, then I won’t say what **WILL*. Because even I’m not misandic enough to give the FBI more excuses to visit Mike.

Your acts are enough.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Civil disobedience is the performance of illegal acts to demonstrate against a perceived injustice not being adequately addressed by systems in place. Someone choosing to post an image of child pornography in the belief that it will energize action against child pornography fits that framework. You may choose to regard that as beyond the pale, but the user who did this was not asking your opinion on the matter.

My speaking of protecting children is fairly limited; I do not want them taught lies in public schools, and I do not want public schools to conceal their mental illness from their parents. If a child, their parents, and their doctors all agree that it is appropriate for the child to be sexually mutilated under the trans delusion, I would not want the law to get in the way, even though this victimizes the child.

My views on free expression are somewhat broader than TechDirt’s. I believe that it is inappropriate for the government to solicit censorship from third parties not bound by the 1st Amendment, while TechDirt endorses such censorship when it is of viewpoints TechDirt hates. I believe, as case law holds, that the government has the right to its own speech, and that government employees do not have free speech rights to speak against the viewpoints they are required to express as part of their job while they are on the job. This includes teachers who are required to teach the curriculum as set by their state.

TexhDirt pretends to support freedom of speech. The site owner is free to delete my posts, but chooses not to. Instead, he engages in the petty harassment of sending my signed-in posts to moderation, despite this being useless.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

And yet, not once in your defenses of Elon Musk’s refusal to punish a distributor of CSAM have you ever actually condemned CSAM or the acts depicted therein. If anything, you’ve been trying to justify the idea that people should be free to post CSAM by pointing out where CSAM is legal to own, defending the idea of posting CSAM out of “outrage” or to “draw attention to” child abuse, and⁠—again⁠—refusing to condemn Elon Musk for refusing to punish someone who posted an image of a toddler being raped and tortured by an adult. You like to say I’m arguing against an illusory version of you⁠—so dispel the illusion yourself.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Child pornography, that is, images of real children being sexually abused, is despicable, and I have no problem with an exception to the 1st Amendment prohibiting it. I agree that having such images be legal would encourage more production of it.

I listed the places where child pornography is legal to own, copied from Wikipedia, because a commenter here claimed that there were no such places. As usual, liberals cannot countenance being exposed to facts that they dislike.

I did not defend posting child pornography as civil disobedience, merely pointed out that performing illegal acts to draw attention to issues is a very common phenomenon. In fact, I would have the civil disobedient be punished to the full extent of the law; civil disobedience means nothing if the perpetrators expect to commit their acts with impunity.

A private party is not required to act against the civil disobedient, even when the act is illegal and committed on their property. They may decide it’s not worth the bother, or they may support the point of view being advocated.

X removed the offending and illegal post. It is not up you to decide what else X should do, since you do not own the platform. You may, of course, criticize, shame, encourage, or buy the platform to get it to behave as you would want it to.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Child pornography, that is, images of real children being sexually abused, is despicable, and I have no problem with an exception to the 1st Amendment prohibiting it.

I love how you keep framing the existence of CSAM in relation to the First Amendment as if 1A has any bearing on whether CSAM should be illegal.

I agree that having such images be legal would encourage more production of it.

You know what else encourages it? Dissemination of those images⁠—like, say, posting them on Twitter where anyone can see it.

I listed the places where child pornography is legal to own, copied from Wikipedia, because a commenter here claimed that there were no such places. As usual, liberals cannot countenance being exposed to facts that they dislike.

I can recognize that CSAM is legal to possess in some places without literally trying to turn that into part of a counterargument for why the posting of CSAM should be go unpunished on Twitter.

I did not defend posting child pornography as civil disobedience, merely pointed out that performing illegal acts to draw attention to issues is a very common phenomenon.

Distinction without a difference. No motive can justify knowingly and intentionally sharing CSAM on a public-facing website.

I would have the civil disobedient be punished to the full extent of the law; civil disobedience means nothing if the perpetrators expect to commit their acts with impunity.

And yet, you still think the platform on which this “civil disobedience” took place shouldn’t do a goddamn thing about it. I don’t see you calling for a permaban on the account that shared CSAM and was personally unbanned by Musk, after all.

A private party is not required to act against the civil disobedient, even when the act is illegal and committed on their property.

Maybe not, but it sure as shit doesn’t help their legal position to do nothing. In Twitter’s case, doing nothing about someone who posted CSAM not only lays waste to any public perception of the platform (and its owner), it also puts the site in potential legal jeopardy. This is why all other social network services (and a vast majority of forums, imageboards, and other such sites) take a zero-tolerance approach to CSAM that includes an instant and irreversible permaban. Twitter used to have one of those, too⁠—until Elon Musk decided to personally unban an account he liked after the user posted CSAM.

You are going out of your way to sound like a sociopath in talking about this, Hyman. I mean, it took you until now to openly condemn CSAM, and you still framed it in the context of the First Amendment as if CSAM is somehow a free speech issue. Jesus Christ, dude, grow a sense of empathy. It’s okay to say “CSAM should be illegal” or “child rape is wrong” without bringing up the First Amendment or the concept of civil disobedience.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Child pornography depicting actual children being subject to illegal acts should be illegal, despite the fact that disseminating images is normally protected by the 1st Amendment. Since you hate freedom of speech and the 1st Amendment protections for speech, association, and petition, it is understandable that you do not see that there are indeed 1st Amendment issues involved. But the Supreme Court covered this and more, so it is not a problem regardless.

People posting such images in violation of the law should be prosecuted by the legal system if it so chooses; as in many other legal circumstances, motive for an illegal action can be taken into account to determine whether a person is guilty, and if so, what their punishment should be. That you feel that no motive can justify dissemination of such images does not mean that other purple must feel as you do; you are generally wrong about most things, so you should understand that some people will think you are wrong about this as well.

That you would like to see X in legal jeopardy dies not mean that it will be. It is simply a further example of TechDirt hating Musk because X refuses to censor viewpoints in the way that Twitter used to. If X does wind up in legal jeopardy over this, remind me, and I will admit that I was wrong.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

As usual, you hallucinate imaginary versions of me who say what you want them to say. Assuming the story is as presumed, the viewpoint in question is that it is justified to publish already existing images of child pornography in order to motivate people to press for better or more enforcement of child pornography laws.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

the viewpoint in question is that it is justified to publish already existing images of child pornography

No.

No, it is not.

Nobody needs to post to Twitter a photograph of a child being raped by an adult for any reason, least of all to create “awareness” for any cause. You cannot and will not convince me otherwise. Take your pro-pedophilia, “child rape is just a viewpoint”, NAMBLA-approved bullshit somewhere else, you utter ghoul.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:14

I do not need to convince you of anything, nor has it ever been possible to get you to acknowledge your errors. It is merely fun to point them out.

The user in question apparently felt that it would be helpful to make such a posting. That you don’t think so is irrelevant, given that you control neither the user nor the platform. You are, of course, free to encourage, convince, shame, or buy the platform in order to get it to behave as you like.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13

Joseph fucking Joestar in a burning plane, Hyman.

Low crime does not mean no crime.

And the FBI, flawed as they are, already enforce the damn rules regarding CSAM.

Just because they don’t always kick the door down for it doesn’t mean they don’t enforce.

Again, moot was visited by an FBI agent EXACTLY BECAUSE HE HAD CSAM POSTED ON HIS SITE. The intent or knowledge DOES NOT MATTER.

Will violence be the only way to get you to acknowledge ANYTHING?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:14

I’m not sure what you think it is that I should acknowledge. I think you’re trying to say that enforcement against child pornography is already sufficient so that someone posting an image to engender more enforcement is unnecessary? I don’t know one way or the other, but in any case, your beliefs on the matter don’t require that anyone else accept them. You might try contacting the user who made that posting and getting them to acknowledge whatever you want them to.

I do hope that the FBI will be paying you a visit for making true threats of violence. Or if you succeed in your murderous intent, that TechDirt will be sued out of existence by my heirs for allowing your post to stand and not permanently banning you.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

lies about posting CSAM material being no different from rioting

Rioting may involve illegal acts, but breaking others’ property and posting CSAM are two different things.

Stealing, vandalism and other such violations of the right to private property usually do not require the doer to break the law before breaking the law. The posting of CSAM though, does.

But then again, you’ve been known to think black people existing is some sort of a crime.

more bullshit involving you continuing to repeat lies about trans people

You HAVE BEEN TOLD TO CUT IT OUT, HYMAN. This is why your fucking comments are stuck in moderation longer.

And again, you keep wanting to harm children.n Schools should have a certain degree of acting in the child’s interests if the child desires the school to do so.

Why do you hate children having 1A right, Hyman? Oh, right. You just defended posting CSAM.

lies about 1A

I… I’m not even going to touch this one because you actively endorse fascism and blind obedience.

more lies about Techdirt

Mike has made his moderation policy real clear. And it IS time-consuming to fucking nuke all your posts. Especially when you continue to abuse anonymous posting.

The only way to stop you goes two ways, either you put up and voluntarily shut up and go, or this ends violently.

I doubt you’d obey even obey protection orders Mike would hypothetically put up, either.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

It’s an interesting comparison. There is no question that the acts depicted in child pornography (involving real children) are more horrific than acts of arson, looting, and vandalism.

However, people found with child pornography are swiftly punished, have their reputations permanently destroyed, and become pariahs for the rest of their lives.

But videos of stores being looted by members of liberals’ favored victim groups, pictures of stinking bums defecating on the streets of San Francisco, illegal aliens gathering in blue cities, test scores for members of those victim groups, and so forth are arguably more horrific in the aggregate, because they show a total breakdown in society due to the actions of ideologues who favor criminal scum, the delusional, and dysfunctional underclasses over the people they prey upon.

If looters were being shot dead during the commission of their crimes, and bums fire-hosed off the streets, I might endorse your comparison more.

Children do not get to act on their desires without permission from their parents, even though people like you seek to groom children for sex and for destruction of their bodies without their parents knowing.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

As usual, you hallucinate imaginary versions of me who say what you want them to say.

Sexual assault of children and child pornography are punished much more harshly than crimes against property, which these days in liberal cities are not punished at all. It is this fact that makes crimes against property (and assault by members of liberals’ favored victim groups against others) worse in the aggregate; not shooting thieves while they are looting, not fire-hosing stinking bums off the streets, not keeping borders closed, lying to people about gender, those will lead to civilizational collapse. That will lead to far more harm, both to children and adults, then cases of child pornographers who are already being hunted down and arrested by international cooperative efforts.

It is good that you feel sympathy for the children being abused for child pornography. You might think of also being sympathetic to the thousands of Black people who are being murdered because of a system that allows deviance in liberals’ favored victim groups to go unpunished and unremarked.

Child pornography hurts its victims. Letting criminal scum go unpunished and unstopped hurts everyone around them. That is arguably worse, because far more people are hurt that way. But I would be happy if law enforcement efficiently attacked both.

Thinking about it, I see why you are so eager to attack child pornography. It is unquestionably evil, but also, it does not require any acknowledgement of the evil that your favored victim groups are committing. You get to bask in your self-righteousness, attack someone you hate for not censoring viewpoints you dislike, and there is nothing you need to do to address the problem because authorities are already dealing with it.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

As usual, you hallucinate imagination versions of me that say what you want them to say.

The heinousness of child rape is already being adequately addressed by law enforcement (although I suppose not in the view of the person who sought to draw more attention to it by posting an image on X, or by QAnon supporters who believe that Democrats are running pedophile rings, or in England when Muslims were pimping underage poor white girls).

But focusing on child rape lets you feel good and self-righteous while ignoring the civilizational destruction your beliefs and policies are forcing upon America. It is so satisfying to you to screech your outrage at Musk while ignoring Black people murdering each other at rates vastly disproportional to their population share, looting stores, assaulting people on the street, and utterly failing to learn anything in school. You speak of the heinousness of child rape while supporting the sexual mutilation of children in the name of an ideology that is so counter to reality that you would have to rip out your eyes or your brain not to see that. You demand that stinking, crazed, dangerous, drug-addled bums must not be swept from city streets.

You are the very essence of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

I’m afraid you do, as long as the site owner continues to pretend to support freedom of speech.

Also as usual, you hallucinate imaginary versions of me who say what you want them to say. In fact, the people who defend pedophilia as a viewpoint are your friends, the ones who want sexualy explicit material in children’s libraries and who want children to be sexualy mutilated because they play with the wrong toys. You’re gay; the NAMBLA folks are your people, not mine.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9

I’d like to remind you that this is a result of your psychopathic obstinacy.

You’re only projecting what you want to do.

If you don’t like it, either behave, like Mike has repeatedly told you to do, or leave, like Mike has also repeatedly told you to do.

If you get to harass us, we also get to harass you, since all civil options have failed.

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ECA (profile) says:

Im waiting.

Iv expressed on a few sites that there is a difference in the word Conservative.

A conservative politician
A conservative person
A conservative religion
ARE ALL DIFFERENT.
Im waiting for them to Clash. And finally see what the others ARNT.

A conservative politician wants to revert the Constitution back to 1939, and get rid of all the Equality Articles, and the Social regulations put into place to Protect the Workers. 40 hour weeks, and 8 hour days, Workmens comp, OHSA and many things could be removed.

Conservative person tends to Love old hardware we HAD, and can still repair it.

Conservative religion, IMO, If you arnt orthodox you arnt conservative enough. Live by the bible, Die by the bible.

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Conservative Religions have gone reactionary

Shortly after Benedict XVI came to power, the LCWR came under scrutiny for promoting contraception and abortion at the ground level (something rather common among Catholic bottom-rung clergy in regions where contraception and or abortion is criminalized). They responded, challenging the Vatican to return to the missions of John Paul II in the middle 20th century, specifically the wars on hunger and poverty, and stop oppressing LGBT+ folk and women who’ve rightly had enough, thank you.

The Vatican responded by telling the LCWR to shut up and make them a sandwich, and even sent the CDF (that’s the Holy Inquisition but modern) to sort them out. In response, the LCWR announced they were divesting from the Roman Catholic Church and going independent.

A few months later, involving some archbishops intervening on the affair and some conversations in sealed rooms, the LCWR has since been quietly making sandwiches in the kitchen, and according to the Vatican the whole affair was amicably resolved: The LCWR no longer is stepping or talking out of line.

In the meantime, poverty and hunger have been de-prioritized globally, while the USCCB stands firmly on the side of all the anti-transgender legislation that’s been going around, also the many challenges to abortion access. While Francis sometimes offers platitudes about maybe gays are okay and women should be treated nicer, there hasn’t been any actual movement regarding, say, allowing gays or women in seminary or allowing the clergy to actually get laid and have relationships. (Despite the ongoing seminary shortage crisis.) Or, for that matter, dealing with the situational-sexuality problem within their own cloisters that has led to not just scandal but a global bad reputation.

In the meantime, the Russian Orthodox Church has made its own news by pushing Putin to criminalize LGBT+ sympathetic thought and speech, let alone behavior, what led to a very gay 2014 Winter Olympics after a Russian judge blocked the making of a pride house with statements seasoned with hate speech. (Many nations dressed their teams in solidarity with the LGBT+ community. The German team was particularly FABULOUS!)

Even as biblical scholars continue to the shred the persecution of LGBT+ and women according to the bible in its original context (ancient attitudes towards sex were super creepy and didn’t even register consent — it’s a shitty resource on which to base modern morality) the RCC and the Orthodoxic ministries have both shifted away from uplifting the poor, hungry and downtrodden to persecution of marginalized minorities, a wrongdoing that is specifically and repeatedly warned against doing through the bible (e.g. Sodom and Gomorrah were firebombed for this kind of shitty behavior and hubris).

So conservative religion is far more aligned with what conservative politics has become today†, and that likely informs that most ministries are bleeding parishioners.

† I still see conservative politics in the US as in two categories, the outright fascists who are glad to start cutting into marginal populations, and will extend genocide even into neutral or loyal sectors with time, and the OG conservatives who don’t want the fascism, but are glad to perpetuate policies that lead to fascists taking over the party and eventually neutering elections so they can take over the government. They wish they had more altitude still to plummet, but will gladly push policies that will keep us from slowing the fall.

ECA (profile) says:

Re: Re: but,

You see?
This is HOW the Republican party is Pulling the Church into this. Every one THINKS, Conservative for the republicans, is religion based.
Its NOT.
They wish to Kill everything Created by FDR. That Saved workers from Dying, while waiting for JOBS that would never come.
Its the Ultra rich, After the Major wars, that DONT want things to change, They wish to revert it back.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Wealth is accumulated by maintaining and exploiting a poor population. Once the exploiters have accumulated what they believe is enough wealth, or a means of replacing slaves, they will have no use for the poor and will do what is necessary to rid the world of the ugly little things. By turning back the clock to an earlier less intelligent era, they hope to eliminate all the laws and rules that have been created over the last hundred years specifically to protect the poor and limit commercial and political greed.
Its a one step solution.

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Wyrm (profile) says:

Twisted definitions of "masculinity" and "freedom".

Sen. Hawley has carved out a conservative persona built on how hard he pushes a depiction of the ideal example of classic American “masculinity.”

More like on the toxic version of “masculinity”.
Not warriors, but bullies.
Not protective, but possessive.
Not assertive, but overbearing.
And so on…
Every positive aspect typically associated with masculinity is twisted in an extreme and harmful trait when they attempt to embody it.
They are not the gold standard of masculinity, they are a caricature of it.

“It has no claim to First Amendment protection.”

Because First Amendment only applies to the right people, doesn’t it? That’s how they read the Constitution: some people have rights, others don’t. I’ll let you guess who, by their standards, gets to decide who can benefit from constitutional rights.

Is that a free America?

By their standards, yes it is.
Their standards of “freedom” being the right to force their political, religious and… erm… “moral” beliefs on others. By force if need be. Second Amendment and all that.
This is not all republicans, but it is nearly all republican politicians and media. And those republicans that don’t embrace these extremist views pretty much tolerate them.

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Fred: The younger brother of God says:

An insult to God

Actually, yes, those Christians who have actually read the bible and understand the reality behind the crime of “Original Sin”, do indeed see any and all unwed sexual behavior as well, not so much an insult, as a slap in the face to God.

This is due simply to their belief that in the beginning, only God could make a human. This is why Adam and Eve got evicted from the garden. They dared to learn the truth of vaginal intercourse (Snake told’em).

Up until the first woman was born, the boys played bummers, naturally, as there was only males. The original sin was committed by Adam and Eve by discovering the truth and then secretly having vaginal sex in the hopes of making their own new person.

They got caught. God freaked out. and Kicked them out of the insemination compound. But once they had learned the truth, God let humans make babies, but only if the church was kept informed and gave the couple a license to mate.

God even blew up a couple of cities because once sex was legalized His Way, you were not supposed to do any other form of sexual interaction except the licensed missionary style…. or else!

Gotta admit.
Those Romans really knew how to concoct a religion.

Today, the adherents to this religion believe it is their duty to prevent all of mankind from breaking any of God’s rules, including those rules that have been interpreted by humans, lest the reward of heaven everlasting be denied them. After all the God named God actually drowned the whole planet once, so it would be within His nature to close the door to Heaven.

Towards this ‘noble’ end, they strive to eliminate the freedom of humans to do anything God might not approve of. So yes, those of a Queer nature, those who abstain from sex altogether, and all those little perversions in between, are; in a manner of speaking, an insult to God, and bothersome enough that they believe their God might deny them their promised reward of eternal life in heaven, for being an obedient heterosexual Christian.

They will happily kill people to prevent that from happening if they have to. C’est la vie eh. 🙂

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I am in awe of such bullshit being spewed here.

Actually, yes, those Christians who have actually read the bible and understand the reality behind the crime of “Original Sin”, do indeed see any and all unwed sexual behavior as well, not so much an insult, as a slap in the face to God.

Actually, we’re told what the Original Sin was.

Not following God’s rules.

“Go forth and multiply” was actually one of the damn rules. The only thing that had “No” was the eating of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good And Evil.

God even blew up a couple of cities because once sex was legalized His Way, you were not supposed to do any other form of sexual interaction except the licensed missionary style… or else!

There are many interpretations as to why God let loose the meteors. We do know the straw that broke the camel’s back though: not recognizing when God was with them, via His Messengers.

That same God was okay with Lot surrendering his daughters to what I would assume was degenerate sex with relative strangers against their wills. And if I remember all the context that came before, Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of a lot of crimes against God…

Those Romans really knew how to concoct a religion.

Christianity has JEWISH roots. And the Romans cribbed a ton from the Grecians.

Greek mythology is highly tolerant of things like cheating on your spouse, punishing people for being better than the gods, oh, and, the man is always in the right, regardless of the crime.

After all the God named God actually drowned the whole planet once

The prevalence of flood myths in many, many cultures notwithstanding…

The Old Testament God was very, very fond of violent punishments. Insult a prophet? Hope you like getting mauled by a bear! And that’s nothing compared to flattening Sodom and Gomorrah, forcing His Chosen to wander the deserts because they prayed to a golden bull (got off real light there), 12 Plagues that legitimately devastated an entire civilization…

Theologically speaking, of course. the Old Testament God was not a nice man, despite His pleadings.

And I’m not denying that the current Republican Party would stoop so low as to become the new Nazis. They already are.

Fred says:

Re: Re: An insult to God

As I said, “those Christians who have actually read the bible and understand the reality behind the crime of “Original Sin””

“Understand” is the primary point there.

You obviously have only absorbed the “preacher’s version” of the bible. Not at all surprising. Even Bible Scholars are mostly afraid to admit the connection between vaginal sex and original sin. They ignore entirely, the part where it says “God first created Man and then later on, created woman.” In the time between these two creations, the Boys had only boys to play with. This is simply too ‘dirty’ for Christian Scholars to deal with. Adam was a bum boy.

God said “Go Forth and Multiply”, AFTER A&E discovered the reality of vaginal intercourse. As I said, once the cat was out of the bag, He made all other sex, especially the standard before the discovery – sodomy – illegal, which was; apparently, punishable by having your entire city destroyed.

Religion is the world’s oldest scam. Based on the fear of death, con artists have always claimed direct communications with God and have always offered a better ‘death’, or eternal life in an off-world paradise, in return for weekly tithings and obedience to laws that restrict inquiry. Christianity was simply the latest and best of the bunch, because it was literally derived by the Roman Flavians from all the good bits of all the warring religions in Rome at that time.
In order to quell the wars in the streets of Rome between the various ancient sects, Christianity was manufactured as a common ground religion with a far better payout reward for adherence and obedience – “eternal life in heaven”, and it worked like a charm.

The fact that the whole world has fallen for the ruse is also not surprising, given the amount of corruption always present in population control methods used by governments and the religious based public educational indoctrination institutes since time immemorial.

But of course, if you’re an adherent, none of this can possibly be true, so discussion is pointless, until you have found the testicles to look beyond the veil.

This response was mostly just for the entertainment value, and for those interested in actual reality.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

This is nonsense, of course. God created Adam and Lilith at the same time, and she was Adam’s equal. But he could not stand such a thing, and instead demanded that God create someone compliant. In punishment, he was given a consort to lead him to disobedience, while Lilith was rewarded by becoming the Mother of Demons who would forever torment the humans who had sought to spurn God’s Wisdom.

Men who seek solace in the flesh of other men are futilely trying to find their way back to the Union of original creation, but the perfect woman Lilith is forever lost to them.

Or something like that. You can make up all sorts of religious idiocy with great ease.

Fred says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Hope

Cool. That’s a new one. The version I caught was that Lilly took one look at the neanderAdam and fled the Garden post haste. I wonder if every christian has his/her very own version of the cult concocted in their brain. Oh well. There is always the hope that some day humanity will grow up and put all this childish shit aside. Hope springs eternal. 🙂

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