Reddit Blackout Crashes The Site As Reddit Users Realize They’re In The Power Position

from the upvote-the-enshittification dept

On Monday we wrote about the changes that Reddit was making to their API pricing, causing some services to shut down, and leading thousands of subreddits to choose to blackout (some temporarily, some indefinitely). Apparently, all those sites going private resulted in… Reddit itself falling over.

According to Reddit, the blackout was responsible for the problems. “A significant number of subreddits shifting to private caused some expected stability issues, and we’ve been working on resolving the anticipated issue,” spokesperson Tim Rathschmidt tells The Verge. The company said the outage was fully resolved at 1:28PM ET.

The issues started Monday morning, with Reddit’s status page reporting a “major outage” affecting Reddit’s desktop and mobile sites and its native mobile apps. “We’re aware of problems loading content and are working to resolve the issues as quickly as possible,” the company wrote on the status page in a message at 10:58AM ET. At 11:47AM ET, the company said that “we’re observing improvements across the site and expect issue to recover for most users. We will continue to closely monitor the situation.”

That’s… not a good sign for Reddit. The details show that over 8,000 subreddits, with the backing of nearly 29,000 mods have participated in the blackout.

Moderators in r/ModCoord are keeping track of participating subreddits in an ongoing thread — as of Monday afternoon, 28,606 moderators are participating, and 8,300 subreddits pledged to go private in support of the movement. Some subreddits pledged to permanently shut down unless Reddit “adequately addresses” its users’ concerns, according to a post in r/Save3rdPartyApps. The most popular subreddits participating the blackout include r/funny, r/aww, r/gaming, r/Music, r/Pics, r/science and r/todayilearned. The collective userbase across all of the protesting subreddits totals 2.8 billion, which includes a significant overlap of users who subscribe to multiple protesting subreddits. Users can watch subreddits go dark in real time on Twitch.

As numerous people are pointing out, Reddit is discovering the same thing that Twitter is also discovering: when you build a service where the value is all the free content that users provide, you’re going to run into some problems when you suddenly start acting like you “own” all that, and you feel the need to put up paywalls for access.

Sure, it can work in the short term thanks to the sheer inertia of the existing giant audience. But, if we’ve learned anything over the last few decades of the internet, users are mostly okay if they’re asked to put up with some ads here and there in exchange for access to useful information and the wider community itself. But when you start to put up paywalls to access that community and information, including destroying the businesses and services that made your community much more valuable for free, well, at some point those users are going to realize they have the power to go elsewhere.

In many ways this is just yet another example of Cory Doctorow’s enshittification. Remember, the quick synopsis of the enshittification process is:

Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.

Reddit was good to its users for many years. But now, as it needs to IPO to keep its investors happy, it’s trying to claw back as much value for itself, and that means taking value away from the users. But the users are the ones who provide all the value.

And this bumps up against another part of Cory’s enshittifcation concept: it only works when switching costs are high. Social media can make that work. But I’m not so sure that Reddit has the sheer gravitational pull that social media has. Yes, there are social media-like communities on various subreddits. But, on the whole, the communities are built around topics, and it’s kind of easy to just move elsewhere (again, fediverse options Lemmy and Kbin are already looking pretty nice for that).

And, Reddit, of all sites, should know this. Because Reddit’s big break was when Digg went through an accelerated enshittification in 2010, with a revamp that was driven by investors at the expense of its users. And Digg’s users quickly decamped for Reddit, which quickly became much bigger, and much more useful, than Digg ever was.

So far, Reddit management still doesn’t seem to recognize what’s happening, and continues to dismiss these concerns. Perhaps users will stick around. Perhaps the alternatives won’t prove compelling enough. But there’s a real opportunity for users to show Reddit management that the value that they’re now trying to capture isn’t about Reddit. It’s about the users.

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Comments on “Reddit Blackout Crashes The Site As Reddit Users Realize They’re In The Power Position”

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55 Comments
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Anonymous Coward says:

when you build a service where the value is all the free content that users provide, you’re going to run into some problems when you suddenly start acting like you “own” all that

See also Stack Exchange, Inc., who want to sell access to their API and have recently stopped providing their public “data dumps” to that end. Among their other ongoing debacles.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

See also Stack Exchange, Inc.

That’s the site where people go to argue about whether the questions asked are suitable for the site, under a non-dismissable cookie banner that take up half the screen, right? (If you got there via a search result for someone asking the exact thing you wanted to know, the answer is, inevitably: no, that question is not appropriate here, and we’re closing the discussion before anyone can provide an answer.)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

(If you got there via a search result for someone asking the exact thing you wanted to know, …

My experience on Stack Overflow for software engineering-related questions does not echo what you’ve described. And since that’s pretty much the limit of my use of S.O., I limit my response to you accordingly.

under a non-dismissable cookie banner that take up half the screen, right?

While the cookie banner is not dismissable if you don’t allow javascript, I recall that if you choose one of the options (and allow JS), it does go away. And yes, it is annoying, and yes, I do view S.O. on a full desktop screen, to move the banner out of the way. Try it, you’ll like it.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Bo Knows says:

LOL

“Position of power” This is the most hilarious take I’ve seen on this yet. Reddit is currently humming along as if nothing happened. Don’t even notice the subs that are closed are closed. No users are gone, they are all still commenting in the open subreddits.

This “protest” was a massive failure because it was dishonest from the start.

The dishonest narrative building by people like this author is just a bit pathetic.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

This is the most hilarious take I’ve seen on this yet.

You say that as if the people in charge of Reddit can replace the Reddit userbase if they, for example, decide to leave and go somewhere that isn’t being enshittified. But much like the low-level workers in a corporate chain, the users of Reddit are in the power position⁠—because Reddit wouldn’t be active or successful without the users.

Reddit is nothing if a significant chunk of its userbase says “fuck this” and leaves. For whatever problems it has now, they’ll grow so much worse if management decides to keep alienating users. Management isn’t in a position of power here because they’re not the ones who create the value that, for example, makes Reddit a high-level search result in Google for all kinds of questions.

No executive is ever worth more than the people who make his company work. That applies to interactive web services, too⁠—and it equally applies to both the people who keep those services running and the people who keep using those services. If you think the people in charge of Reddit as a company can replace the userbase and the value they bring to Reddit, I would love to see you make that argument. 🍿

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

There are over 8400 subreddits currently dark, including many of the most popular. https://reddark-digitalocean-7lhfr.ondigitalocean.app/. If you claim you “don’t even notice”, I’m frankly calling bullshit, or congratulating you on almost exclusively using subs with under 50k users.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Perspective

You mention the 8400 number. An article I have seen said 8478 out of 8838 subreddits.

That’s 95% of subreddits by count. And with a number like that, whether the ones that stayed active are big or small does not matter.

The investors had better be paying close attention to damage control at this point. If they managed to find two brain cells to click together, they’d open Reddit’s books and crowdsource a solution. Like, maybe, serving solely as a hosting solution (and maybe legal defense resource).

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Who Cares (profile) says:

Re:

The two day blackout was supposed to be a warning. Some subs (around 300ish) went into permanently lock down after Hufman showed zero problems lying and tarring people who showed his true colors to the world.

Hufman sent out a message (written with the expectation it was going to be leaked) again casting aspersions on the protesters, they are violent and might get physical with you for daring to wear Reddit swag. And stated he was going to ignore the warning for the simple reason that it wasn’t meant as a killing blow to Reddit.

Thing is if the grapevine is right Reddit isn’t ignoring the blackout but is instead trying to quietly boot moderators who took their sub private so that the sub can be reopened by a newly instated Reddit friendly mod.
If this is true then the protest is a success as it is seen as damaging enough to Reddit for Reddit to take action.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Seems like newly emplaced collaborator mods would not have a lot of respect from a majority of the users.

On a number of subs, there was public voting / polls of active members as to whether or not to participate. At least in the ones I’m active in, all of those polls substantially supported the blackout.

Now, there’s some selection bias, in that more active users are more likely to post / vote. But they’re also more likely to be the more prolific posters / commenters, so even if they’re only a small fraction of the user base, they’re generating a significant amount of the content (that Reddit Inc. relies on for their IPO valuation).

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

So…

What IS stopping the Reddit users and mods from getting either a copy of the code and running their own clone…

Or better yet, a SimpleMachines forum install, their own hosting solution, a domain and start their own forum?

We used to do that pre-Reddit. I don’t mind going back to that, unless they charge 10bux…

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Bo Knows says:

LOL

This is just pathetic. The self-importance of the small minority of third party app users is off the charts dumb.

Here they are, 24 hours in to their “protest” and they have accomplished exactly nothing. They are now staring into the reality that this protest didn’t work, they have no power, and no one cares if they ever come back to the site.

Good riddance. You know what Reddit is actually missing right now? People making trolling uninformed comments from their cell phones. Oh no!

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Then, they die.

“Die”, perhaps, needs to be defined quite broadly. A lot of things which people think of as “dead” are actually still lurking around in zombie form. Slashdot, Digg, LiveJournal, The Simpsons. They’ll be actually-dead eventually, but that can take literally decades.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

I feel the same way about websites that have those content-blocking full-page popup notices when I’m trying to read an article or whatever. “Subscribe to our newsletter and—” Nah, I’mma just hit that Back button and not read your site ever again.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

I left before and I'll leave again

Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was regular on Slashdot. Then some corporation bought it and suddenly the stories were stupid. I left to go somewhere else.

Once upon a time I used this website called digg. Then it got crappy and I went to Reddit.

Currently Reddit and Twitter are showing signs of getting crappy. Anyone want to guess what happens next?

anon1234213 says:

Re:

I feel the same. I used to be a regular at Slashdot, but after it got bought it went to stupid and I moved on. Never really used digg, but it seems it’s the same story there and now Reddit is doing doing the same thing. And don’t get me started with twitter, the dumpster fire it has become. Users most definitely will move on to where is better.

Anonymous Coward says:

Reddit users do not have much power if they are not willing to switch to alternative platforms. Many of the people who are complaining about the recent cash-grab will likely keep using Reddit once the blackout is over (I can’t blame them).

And many/most users are not willing to switch to a completely new platform, where certain key features from the old platform may be missing (I’m looking at you, Mastodon), where they must build new communities from scratch, and where there is a system (federation) that can be clunky and confusing to understand.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

And many/most users are not willing to switch to a completely new platform, where certain key features from the old platform may be missing

As was pointed out in the previous story, Reddit’s code was open-source before they rewrote it to be shittier. The old version, which roughly corresponds to old.reddit.com, is still available.

It might be hard to get a community going again, and to deal with server maintenance, moderation, security, etc.—but at least the users don’t have to end up with everything being different.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
nasch (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

I think the most likely scenario is not a sudden departure, but rather a minority of users will leave, and start finding other places to go. Over time, Reddit will continue to make their service worse, leading to an accelerating trickle of users abandoning it. At some point some alternative(s) will start to gain some real traction and user base, and then the exodus will really pick up steam.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re:

“many/most users are not willing to switch to a completely new platform”

Point of order – many are willing to do that, but the network effect means that they won’t until there’s somewhere to go to where the things they want to access are located.

This can be a catch-22 – content providers don’t want to go somewhere else until they know there will be a user base, the users don’t want to go until the providers are there. But, there’s work on new platforms and work to try and make federated platforms less confusing to newcomers. If you’re running a platform that people want to get away from you shouldn’t ignore that because by the time you notice people fleeing, it’s too late to stop it.

Capp says:

Trademark monopoly

U.S. Trademark laws are unconstitutional from the getgo.
The Patent Clause permits no monopoly-grant for the mere arbitrary name of a “useful Writings and Discoveries”.

Patents & Copyrights may only be granted for specific substantive inventions and writings that “promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts’

Names for things lack any substance, as is requied by basic Constitutional monoply grant.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Internet Lawyering

I’m’a farm out my own Internet Lawyering response. You might find this page informative:

Congress’s power over trademarks, another form of intellectual property, does not derive from the Intellectual Property (IP) Clause. … In the twentieth century, however, courts have sustained federal trademark legislation as an exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause.

constitution.congress.gov

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
emmy says:

These articles really need to highlight the sheer amount of unpaid labour the moderators of these subs were doing. Some were even paying for the hosting the 3rd party mod tools. Let’s say mods spend an average of 5 hours a week on moderation (though possibly more), at 15/hr and 28k mods that’s 2 million $/week.

Reddit can boot all these mods. Or they can open subs with the same topics. But where are they going to find 28k people to moderate these subs on a week’s notice? For free. And without the automation tools built by the previous team. How much more work would that be?

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