Texas School District Decides To Just Ban All Books Flagged For Review… Including The Bible
from the this-should-go-well dept
If you’re not familiar with the story and history behind the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then go read up on it, because it’s a great story. For you lazy bums out there, I’ll summarize it thusly. A 24-year old in Oregon got sick of religious types in Kansas trying to inject the teaching of intelligent design in public education institutions under the guise of “teaching the debate” or “equal time” with, well, actual science. As a result, he created a spoof religion centering on a monster made of pasta that uses his noodley appendages to do all kinds of things in our world, including changing carbon dating results so as to hide the actual age of the world and universe. He then argued for “equal time” for this religion in Kansas, stating that if it was good enough for Christians, it was good enough for “Pastafarians”.
Why do I bring this up? Well, because it’s always interesting to see those who would inject their own personal beliefs into public institutions of learning have their arguments turned right around on them in ways that were unforeseen. As an example of this, we go to a school district in Dallas-Fort Worth, which just opened its doors after unsuccessfully agreeing on which books should be banned, following challenges from parents and residents on many, many titles. Of course, the Texas Education Agency was involved as well, which was also seeking to ban books based on certain content. Not confident in its ability to review those challenges in a way that would actually quell the uproar from citizens and the government mostly looking to ban books that talked about gender, sexuality, or race, the district decided to just pull all flagged books from school shelves indefinitely. Books that included, well…
Administrators at Dallas-Fort Worth’s Keller ISD announced Tuesday that the district will pull all books challenged within its system—a sweeping action that includes the removal of all variations of the Bible and a graphic novel depicting the life of Anne Frank. The move is a seemingly abrupt course reversal for the district, which began a high-profile and months-long review of challenged works in its schools following a Texas Education Agency investigation into alleged sexual explicit materials found in its curriculum.
The Dallas Morning News’ Taila Richman reports that an email sent Tuesday to school principals by Jennifer Price, curriculum director of Keller ISD, relayed a new directive that urged staff to pull all titles flagged for review by day’s end regardless of past recommendations made during the review process.
This is occurring just as children are set to go back to school in the district, ostensibly where they will enter libraries with far fewer books on the shelves than they remember. And no bibles, either. Which makes much more sense than banning the Anne Frank graphic novel. Was someone upset that Nazis existed and were depicted in a children’s book?
The bible, in most of its iterations, has plenty to say about violence, sexuality, and all other matters of personal morality. Much like many of the other books the community and government flagged for removal. But somehow I doubt that those in favor of pulling books on gender as a subject matter also wanted the Bible pulled for the same reason. Call me crazy, but I think I’m on fairly solid ground here.
And, so, in the interest of banning books they don’t like, it sure seems like a fair number of the religious have gotten their own sacred text banned. And, to be clear: that sucks! It is a terrible thing that students cannot study a religious text while in school, assuming that studying is secular in nature.
But it also sucks that they can’t study gender issues, LGBTQ+ matters, and the like. So, maybe we just stop banning books now?
Filed Under: book banning, challenged books, culture, dallas, diary of anne frank, libraries, the bible
Companies: keller isd
Comments on “Texas School District Decides To Just Ban All Books Flagged For Review… Including The Bible”
I do wonder what Ray Bradbury’s take would have been on this decision. Fortunately, we haven’t reached 451F yet.
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Sigh. Fahrenheit 451 was NOT about censorship. Bradbury said so, himself.
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Yes and no. He has given conflicting statements on what it’s about. Initially it was about the fear of book burnings and the implicit censorship in that, then it was about reduced interest in literature and reading, and then about how political correctness is a form of thought control.
Regardless, removing books so children no longer can read about “controversial” subjects is certainly something he would have a strong opinion on.
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Media can be about things the author never intended and readers and society in general will take what they want from them. See also: Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle.
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But if the take is things that were never written, isn’t that quite literally hallucinating facts not in evidence?
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Ummm… no.
The facts are right there on the printed page. Interpreting or understanding them is a different matter.
What they mean is in many respects up to the reader, rather than the author. Is Captain Steele at the Battle of Great Stump a glorious account of The Empire’s war against the Klurgon, or a pathetic tale of how the noble Klurgon were tragically wiped out in a doomed attempt to resist an arrogant empire blinded by it’s own power?
Or to take a more real-world example: do Trump’s word’s justify his actions — or prove that he’s as wrong as he could possibly be?
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Thanks for the fictional example, framing it that way gave me something to think about. The Trump one made less sense to me, possibly because of existing prejudices.
Re: Re: Re:4
That’s one of the reasons I love Science fiction (a.k.a. ‘SF’, Speculative Fiction, etc.) and literature in general. It provides clarity via a sort of psychological distance — one is less biased by preconceptions, prejudices, and political/religious/cultural unquestioned assumptions.
More than one noted author has noted that Science Fiction isn’t actually about the future, distant galaxies, or miraculous technologies — it’s actually about us, and our understanding, in the present-day, viewed through the insulating lens of literary imagination.
Re: Re: Re:2
Do some research on Death of the Author and Critical analysis. Using the words on the page, you can view a work from many angles. “The intended message(s) as written by the author” is but one frame of reference. And I would not be particularly effective in summarizing it.
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But with so few pirates on the high seas, the ever increasing climate change might get us there.
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With the seas rising, I will welcome the 2nd golden age of pirates with open arms.
Re: Fortunately...
Humanity will be dead before global warming gets that bad.
(For one thing, it’ll take a “really long time” to boil the oceans away at 212F)
To quote Hemant Mehta: “The people least likely to find value in an infinite supply of books are the people who believe only one book matters.”
American conservatives—especially religious conservatives—are about maintaining a status quo. (I mean, “conserve” is even in the name of the ideology.) Part of the status quo that those conservatives want to maintain is a strict gender binary with an attached hierachy: only men and women, with men being the superior gender. The existence of queer people upends that status quo by turning the rigid gender roles and identities of the past into a spectrum where masculinity no longer exclusively means “violent hyper-machismo” and femininity no longer exclusively means “submissive and breedable until menopause”. (I hyperbolize, yes, but I’m not that far off from the truth.)
This upending of gender roles creates a fear within conservatives that their kids may one day discover their own queerness—and exactly how their conservative families “accept” the existence of queer people. This fear leads to conspiratorial thinking about “indoctrination” and “grooming”, which leads to censorious busybodies trying to determine what everyone else gets to read instead of controlling only what comes into their own homes.
When I rail against speech I dislike, I do so knowing that even thought I don’t have to listen to, repeat, or platform that speech, my feelings on that speech shouldn’t prevent anyone from expressing themselves (or experiencing that expression). The kinds of people who would ban a graphic novel adaptation of The Diary of Anne Frank are far more likely than people like me to ban books—and more—that they believe would/could challenge their authority, their belief structure, and ultimately their status quo.
They want to control exactly who can read these “controversial” books—and if they could have their way, it would be “nobody”. If anyone thinks I’m exaggerating or lying, y’all might want to read about the defunding of the public library in Jamestown Township, Michigan over its refusal to ban those same kinds of books. Then y’all might want to ask yourself what comes next.
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I hyperbolize, yes, but I’m not that far off from the truth.
TBH, you’re that close to the truth that I didn’t really see much hyperbole at all, and I say that as a Christian.
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Well, thanks for confirming my thesis–that reprehensible asshat christians have subverted TD’s otherwise wonderful comment forum.
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Well, thanks for confirming my thesis–that reprehensible asshat non-Christian trolls have subverted TD’s otherwise wonderful comment forum.
FTFY. After all, you’re the one attacking a Christian for doing something they provably haven’t done.
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Slimy crypto-christians like you, defending the subtle proselytizing of another christian? Whodathunkit, DBAC troll!
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Point to the proselytizing, subtle or otherwise, in that comment, hypocritical DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese troll.
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I don’t see any proselytizing (subtle or otherwise) by either Naughty Autie or the AC you responded to. Naughty Autie said that he was a Christian who still agreed with Stone’s negative characterization of, among others, religious conservatives, which isn’t even remotely proselytizing, and the AC never said anything that would even imply what religion (if any) they follow; they certainly didn’t proselytize. That’s it.
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How exactly did the Christian AC “subvert” TD’s comment forum?
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Sorry; I meant “Naughty Autie”.
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Absolutely, though I will say that there are degrees of religious conservatives. Not all are opposed to women being head of the household, for example. The gist is still entirely correct, however. Indeed, I would say that many Christians (myself included) would also agree with the overall idea.
Re: A great summation
About the role of fear in current society. Thinking about history, America was a nation founded just as much on fear as on diversity, opportunity and greed. Fear of religious and political dissenters led to the formation of multiple colonies by dissenting refugees. Fear of the Native Americans was the cause of so much of the injustice heaped upon them. Fear of Lincoln’s policies was the catalyst for the Civil War. Xenophobia and isolationism are recurring themes.
FDR got it right: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
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FDR got it right: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
That quote didn’t originate with FDR, apparently.
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True, but—unlike many quotes attributed to historical figures—FDR did actually say it and popularized it.
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I can’t leap that huge wall of text without pole vaulting.
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Then get a pole and start practising, ya pussy!
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Ooooh, I bet you just loved writing the word pussy considering that your tranny ass doesn’r have one, poor bilogical backhole that you are.
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Trans people subvert and change their own biology to live an authentic life in spite of a world that doesn’t want them to exist that way.
You’re afraid of parts of speech and obsessed with policing other people’s genitals to satiate your own personal comfort.
They may not have a pussy, but you sure as hell don’t have any balls.
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You left out boobs. I support all parts equally.
Gotta ban them all
According to What Does LGBTQ+ Mean?: “The ‘plus’ is used to signify all of the gender identities and sexual orientations that are not specifically covered by the other five initials.”
This would, of course, include heterosexual. I think someone should get any books promoting heterosexuality or traditional roles banned on the grounds that they are all LGBTQ+.
I bet we could find grounds for the banning of all possible schoolbooks, if we worked on it.
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Except it doesn’t. The LGBTQ initialism (and all widely recognized variants) isn’t about heterosexuality (or being cisgender), but the sexual identities that exist outside of heterosexuality(/being cisgender). Please don’t use queer people and their identities as a weapon.
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Reformulated: “I think someone should get any books promoting heterosexuality or traditional roles banned on the grounds that they all involve sexuality.
You object to the GP’s use of a symbol you define differently than they did. That is perilously close to “you can’t use [word/symbol/identifier] because it means something different coming from you than it does from me”.
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My objection is neither a threat nor a warning. It’s a plea—specifically, a plea for someone to think twice before using a symbol/initialism/whatever that has been long associated exclusively with queer people to attack non-queer people. If someone wants to use the LGBTQ initialism as a weapon against straight people, I can’t stop them—but I can still ask them to think about what they’re doing before they do it again.
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Ok, I vote for Stephen Stone as the King of the Queers! Here’s your prize!
[dick shaped chocolate cake, with your dear mothers face emblazoned on the nutsack portion]
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lol
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I understand your sentiment entirely, but I do think that the point still stands.
And, obviously, I concur that LGBTQ+ exclusively covers human beings with sexual orientations, romantic preferences, sexes, and genders that don’t fit within cisheteronormativity or a strict gender binary. This includes homosexuals, bisexuals, pansexuals, asexuals, homo-romantics, bi-romantics, pan-romantics, a-romantics, transgender people (regardless of what—if any—surgery or hormone therapy they’ve undergone), genderfluid people, neuter-gendered people, non-binary people, intersex people, and sexless people (and I’ve likely missed some on top of that); however, it doesn’t include cisgender, heterosexual people who aren’t intersex or sexless.
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“Except it doesn’t”
A significant portion of the anti-LGBTQ crowd would like to ban hetero sex as well. Certainly the ones that think the rapture will happen in their lifetimes. And the others would want to ban sex outside of a church marriage, regardless of the gender identity of the partners.
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And the others would want to ban sex outside of a church marriage, regardless of the gender identity of the partners.
I’m golden, then. As a Unitarian Universalist, my church is not only happy to marry anyone regardless of sexuality or gender identity, but also regardless of religion or lack thereof. Because us UUs believe that God exists everywhere, our chapels are welcoming to everyone.
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Yes, the Universalist movement is one of the few that are actually peaceful! Totally accepting! A fine group of people. And quite charitable. At least where I am.
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Ban abortions, not books.
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I’d bet you’re the kind of person who thinks a pregnant teenager is too immature to have an abortion but somehow also mature enough to birth and take care of a child.
I mean, if I took sucker bets, that is.
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Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one. Leave everyone else alone.
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Don’t like murder? Don’t commit one. Leave everyone else alone.
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Abortion is to murder as plucking an acorn off the ground is to cutting down a tree. You can’t murder a non-person. You can’t cut down a tree that hasn’t sprouted.
But women are people who retain rights over their bodies regardless of whether a fetus is a person or not.
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Every time I hear that argument, that abortion is murder, I think of a short story written by Alan Stillitoe included in the book The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner, about a man arrested for intending suicide, and my teacher’s comment when we were assigned it in High School, that at a certain time in the UK, you could get hung for attempting to kill yourself.
Since abortionists often support the death penalty for murder and attempted murder, I expect they’d also support the death penalty for attempted suicide as well. And also for attempted abortion …
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The only motivation for making abortion illegal is to maximise the amount of murder in the world.
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I hope you mis-spoke here? Otherwise, your argument was made by no one ever. Never:
Abortionists are almost never pro-death penalty–what planet did you come to not know that?
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The bigger question is what planet did you come from to troll these forums, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese?
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Don’t like freedom? Go to prison. Leave everyone else alone.
Re: Re: Re: Or are you really that ignorant?
Why did you just bring up a completely unrelated thing?
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Don’t like murder? Don’t call for the hanging of Mike Pence.
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Is it supporting murder to call for the hanging of Trump, though?
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Yes.
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Oh, that’s a shame.
Re: Go on and guess bro
You want to know how I know you don’t read books?
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Ban talking before thinking, not abortions.
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… said no moral human being, ever.
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Well, I have no problem if street abortions are banned. People who need to end a pregnancy should be allowed access to safer options than that, no matter where they live.
Texas… Go to school… reading is optional.
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Football is mandatory.
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So is cheerleading, I hear.
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Worse than that, valid reasoning is optional (possibly even punished).
a list
Personally, I think these libraries should then be required to post a prominently displayed list of the books that were removed, author, ISBN, Publisher, Publishing Date, the reason they were removed, and the name of the person/group that requested it.
That’s kind of disingenuous. By your logic, Elon musk should be considered an African American
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By your logic, Elon musk should be considered an African American.
That’s exactly what he is though, since he was born in Africa and is an American citizen, just like Charlize Theron. The thing is, not all African-Americans are black, and not all black Americans have ethnic roots in Africa. That’s what makes the term potentially racist.
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Also, given the absolutely stunning amount of diversity in Africa, not all African Black peoples are the same. This isn’t to say that they don’t all fit in the same box with respect to colonizing cultures and have similar experience in that regard.
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The idea of race is just an arbitrary method invented to divide people (so as to oppress some), in the same way caste is. There’s no scientific definition of “white” or “black” or “untouchable” (nevermind “Asian”, ’cause people seem to forget that Asia includes India, Iran, parts of Russia…). We should be rejecting these ideas.
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Well, it’s important to reject the idea that there’s a scientific basis for racial taxonomies, but it’s still important to recognize that some people are adversely affected by historical and systemic racism based on those unscientific bases.
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Right! Racial taxonomies need to go!
Start here, and work your way back to “bumblebees are now fish in California.”
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That bit about the bumblebees is really weird.
Understandably, the California legislature has had to add kinds of animals that a certain agency (I think it’s something to do with “Fish & Wildlife”) can regulate, as the original list was rather lacking, but rather than amend the part of the law that lists the kinds of animals that can be regulated, they instead chose to amend the definition of fish (as used in that statute) to include a bunch of creatures that are clearly not fish. And they did this several times. One of the categories added to the definition of “fish” (and the most recent one to be added) was “invertebrates”. Worth noting is that the law already included a number of other invertebrates (like mollusks) prior to that change.
At issue was that this agency (which I’m just going to call the FWA for now) had updated the list of endangered/threatened species to include bumblebees (I can’t recall whether it was all bumblebees or a specific variety), and some people sued on the ground that the FWA doesn’t have the authority to regulate re:bumblebees. Now bees, like all insects, are invertebrates, and the definition of “fish” in the relevant statute includes invertebrates, so the FWA argued that bumblebees count as fish insert the statute, but the plaintiffs argued that the legislative intent was to only include marine invertebrates (such as corals). Now, there is some sense in that, but the evidence didn’t support that conclusion.
My favorite reason given for rejecting that conclusion is that—after “mollusks” were added to the definition of “fish” but before “invertebrates” were—there was a meeting at the FWA to add two new species of animal to this same list at issue: a snail and a butterfly. Naturally, since butterflies are not mollusks, nor do they fit in any of the other categories that were included at that time, someone objected to adding the butterfly species on the grounds that the FWA lacked the authority to do so, and so that species was dropped from the proposal. However, no one rejected the snail as it’s a mollusk, so that species did get added without objection, and no lawsuit was ever filed about that. This is important because, while some species of snails are marine animals, this particular one is purely terrestrial. And this happened before the statute was amended to also include invertebrates, so the legislature knew or should have known that the FWA has historically included animals that are not aquatic among “fish” without a problem, so if the legislature wanted to exclude terrestrial or aerial insects from the category, they surely would have said so explicitly in the law.
As such, the judge ruled that, for the purposes of this particular statute, bumblebees are fish. Really, this is all the legislature’s fault for continually modifying the definition of fish to include so many things with nothing in common with fish..
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Instead of adding land snails, butterflies and bees to the category of “fish”, why couldn’t the California FWA add them to the naturally broader category of “wildlife”?
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That’s not issue. The issue is the list of creatures which the law grants the FWA the right to make regulations regarding, not the name of the agency. The law doesn’t say “the FWA can regulate fish and wildlife”; it says “the FWA can regulate mammals, birds, reptiles, and fish” or something like that. It then goes on to define “fish” as including a number of creatures that no reasonable person would claim are fish, which is ridiculous, but the important thing to note is that “wildlife” is not used here, so modifying the definition of “wildlife” would do nothing here.
Also, this is set by the law granting the FWA its authority, and the law is written by the state legislature, not by the FWA. The FWA has no authority to make such a change to the law defining the contours of its authority. Only the legislature could make such a change.
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Erase the term “black” and you not only deny the reality of systemic discrimination against black people, but also an identity that’s already marginalized.
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The term “African-American” was just one of the least successful PC terms and needs to be discontinued for this and other reasons.
The concept was fine (“black” is often denoted in the English language to have negative connotations and “white” to be positive, so the idea was to try and overcome potential prejudice within language), but the term itself is nonsense. As noted, if taken literally it can mean that white, Arab and other populations from Africa can theoretically be called that, whereas I can tell you from experience with friends that a black Englishman is probably going to be offended if you call them by that term. Ditto black populations with no direct link to the US slave trade from Africa.
It’s great that culture has changed so that certain slurs aren’t used in polite society, but when you’re trying to redefine terms that are descriptive rather than pejorative, you’ll probably run into issues.
Oh sweet schadenfreude...
I can practically hear the hypocritical screams from here…
‘When we said to remove books with sex we didn’t mean our book! That sort of content is perfectly fine when it comes out our religious texts, it’s just horrible when we assert it’s in other books!’
Which makes much more sense than banning the Anne Frank graphic novel. Was someone upset that Nazis existed and were depicted in a children’s book?
Given which state we’re talking about and their semi-recent foray into the topic of moderation my first guess as to why it would get the axe would be that said book doesn’t portray the nazis as the good guys in the story.
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The more likely reason would be some of the things Anne wrote about in regards to sex. But hey, we can’t completely rule out sympathies towards Nazis.
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It’s been so long I guess I completely forgot that sort of stuff was in there, but like you said it could go either way even given that.
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Like, that she was queer–a typical product of Jewish mothering
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Only in your imagination, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese, you prejudiced hypocrite.
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Well, your obsession with smegma is certainly worth noting in your dosier.
Then, there’s this–equality NOW or the kids get clipped!:
“My dreams were crushed,” said one mother to me recently. She was describing what it was like for her when her son came out to her at age 26. Her son is now 40. “I walked around with my head down,” she said. To this day, she said, only her closest friends and family know. “And I’m sure that they are glad that it’s my son who is gay, not theirs,” she said.
Clipped, a metaphor that is beyond you, DBAC.
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Because metaphors need explaining by those that coin them, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese, you lying hypocritical troll.
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That IS the likely reason.
If we’re talking about trying to explain how certain people were probably not Nazis, though…
There’s Hannah “I can’t believe the professor I have a ton of respect for was actually a Nazi!” Arendt. And this is not to denigrate her work or anything, but a lot of her work regarding Nazi Germany and totalitarianism has to be viewed through the lens of her trying to come to terms with the fact that someone she respected (Heidegger) was an ardent Nazi.
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They’re concerned that the Nazis look an awful lot like one of the parties in the US today. Especially when they get to the part with the “Make Germany Great Again” rallies, and Hitler claiming he’ll build a wall, and the Jews would pay for it. 😉
Re: Re: If you name the country in French
It fits the hats perfectly!
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Now seems like a good time to remind everyone that American Nazis held a “Pro American” rally in Madison Square Garden back in 1939. The Second World War destroyed the credibility of American Nazis, but it didn’t destroy their hateful ideology.
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…American Nazis…
Now known as the Grand Old Party…
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If you took certain individual passages from the Bible and described them in neutral terms that didn’t imply their origin, most of these people would be for the ban. It’s only when you relay the fact that the stories of torture, genocide, incest, slavery, etc. came from one particular book that they’re against it.
“my first guess as to why it would get the axe would be that said book doesn’t portray the nazis as the good guys in the story”
Maybe, but banning any historical record because it’s not suitable for children is a very dangerous path, regardless of whether it’s due to sex, violence or criticism of the Fuhrer. Weirdly enough, most actual history is not G rated.
… what is this? I can’t even….
What are they going to teach in scholl, silent mediation? That does require reading, ‘riting or ‘rithmatic, and so can be taught with empty shelves in the library.
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They won’t teach that because some asshole would probably consider that to be a non-Christian religious practice and have it banned in short order.
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Unless they called it “prayer time”…
To be fair, modern “Republicans” don’t bother to read their Bibles or to understand it, and the interesting times that brought about such a book.
Unsurprising they banned the book, though the reason the linked article states that “the book has more than one author and its authorship could not be identified”.
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Well, cherry picking the Bible has been a thing since before it was nailed down. Several times. With different revisions and expurgations.
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One would think that a book alleged to be the unerring word of God wouldn’t need revisions and reinterpretations and such.
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God apparently only chose the people who are naive enough to believe some random dude who says, “trust me, god speaks through me! Now, about tithing a bunch of your money to me…”
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Only fools allege that. As a scientist, I understand the Bible to be amongst humans’ earliest attempts to explain the origins of the natural world, and therefore not written by God at all.
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To be fair, it’s probably the same god who needed a starship.
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But the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn’t need a starship. He moves around the universe under His own own power, waving His noodly appendages to propel Himself and using puttanesca sauce as fuel.
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Well, I don’t think most people who consider it the unerring word of God have ever read it in the languages in which is was originally written, so it would still be nonsense to claim that even if only one arrangement and translation was used given that the claimant doesn’t actually know what was originally written.
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Dragguls uoht tna eth ot og! And with that cantrip, I bring you, the Slave Bible:
https://slavebible.com/
“The Slave Bible contained only passages that promoted obedience to “masters” and government officials. Approximately 90% of the New and Old Testaments were removed because they were considered dangerous to the interests of the masters and of the government.”
I’m not making this up.
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The thing is that ancient Hebrew culture didn’t think that way at all. A text from which new meaning could no longer be discerned was considered “dead”. It may seem alien to us, but to them, the whole notion of “original meaning” is irrelevant to how they treated scripture.
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Shawshank Redemption got there before you. Bibles are great for hiding things. I fully expect a good many of these Righteous folk in the Bible Belt them excellent for hiding Hstler from the wife and kids.
Petard, meet hoist...
Hoist, meet petard.
I’d like to buy the person who made that suggestion a drink!
Reductio Ad Absurdum
If you’re not going to do your job, you might as well not do your job all the way.
Goose stepping morons...
…should try reading books instead of burning them.
So, these books aren’t available anywhere?
If they are, they’re not “banned”.
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They are banned withing the relevant context which was given.
This isn’t hard, but that gotcha is pretty well strained.
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Banned doesn’t always equal censored. Bad AC! No gotcha for you!
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Whoosh.
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Oh dear, is language confusing to you?
They have been banned from the school district that issued the ban. They are available elsewhere, but that does not mean that they have not been banned in the context of the story.
If a movie is refused certification by the BBFC in the UK, that means it’s been banned from the UK. It doesn’t mean that a person in the US can’t get it, but the fact that an American can see the movie (or a UK person can pirate it) doesn’t mean it’s not banned from the context of a UK resident.
May you be touched by his noodley appendage.
R’amen
How can you argue he does not exist?
All of the planets are the same shape as his most holy meatballs.
Re:
I ate those meatballs in Subway. Tasted like standard beef to me.
Re:
FSM exists every bit as much as the Invisible Pink Unicorn!
Re: Re:
Yeah? Because I’ve never heard about the Invisible Pink Unicorn screwing with radio carbon dating results, so I think you just made it up!
I shall be known now, and forevermore, as the high priest of the onion. It’s all true!
"law and order..."
“Now just wait a minute! Wait just a minute!”
“When we said we were ‘in favor of law and order’ — that didn’t mean we wanted it enforced on our guys!”
When did “conservative” become a synonym for ‘hypocrite’?
Re:
When did “conservative” become a synonym for ‘hypocrite’?
When Conservatives started practising hypocrisy, of course.
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What happened in the TX school district is similar to what happens when tech companies try to moderate forum postings. Such efforts seem to go wrong more often then they get things right. Doesn’t seem to matter if the thing deciding is a mindless algorithm or a committee of people. At some point, the deciding thing takes the ‘safe’ path and just bans things. At least with the school district, unhappy parents can complain to a real person and try to replace the school board at election time.
Re:
Considering that there are millions if not billions of automated moderation decisions done every day, I’d say your conclusion has very little to do with actual reality.
What happened in Texas is entirely the fault of a “think of the children” mentality that is heavily influenced by conservatism, religion and a sense of moral superiority.
Re:
Or you only hear about the ones that go spectacularly wrong.
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Meanwhile, in South Dakota
In South Dakota, they are trying to sneak the bible into the classroom. The chairman of the South Dakota Catholic Conference is helping write the social studies curriculum:
“[The standards] are also peppered with Christian history and explore the religion’s influence on the nation’s leading figures and on Western civilization.”
Source: https://www.startribune.com/article/600198511/
Re: 'We must avoid political teachings... that aren't ours.'
For example, seventh grade students are expected to explain how the nation’s founders advanced equal rights for every person and advanced the idea that each person “is endowed with these rights by the God that created them, and that the existence of human slavery was understood by most, but not all, of the founders to be a contradiction of the principle of human equality.”
Oh yeah, super neutral and not at all historical whitewashing propaganda there…
Re: Re:
For example, seventh grade students are expected to explain how the nation’s founders advanced equal rights for every person…
o.O 79 years before it was recognised that slaves are people?
Re: Re: Re:
And more than a century before women gained the right to vote.
Re: Re: Re:2 'How did the nation's founders hold every person equal?'
Now I’m just thinking about a student who turns in that assignment with ‘They didn’t’ as their entire essay.
Re: Re: Re:
“You’re wrong. Slave aren’t people, they’re not even human.”
~George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Benjamin Franklin, slave owners.
When I was little
It was funny, that every christian would declare, that Christians are this and that, but we had 6 Different Churches?
Then I find out there are over 40 different groups of Christians, and they had WARS between each other, Just cause of a few Lines in a book, or the interpretation of a section or IDEAL created IN the eyes of the beholder.
then you look up the history of the bible, and what has been done to it, with it. Then find there is only 1 place thats kept all of the Stuff together. And it not in the White kingdom of mankind.
Well, if you must censor…?
Bible is a good place to start. Homicide, genocide, patricide, fratricide, name a cide.
Rape. Incest. Beastiality.
Death, destruction, revenge, elitism. Slavery.
What a terrible book for children!!
Re:
But, but,
After every edit to the Bible, Changing a 2400 year old Hebrew bible, gets EASY.
Dont even tell Christians they arnt supposed to eat PORK or shellfish.
Dont warn women that the BIBLE ISNT their friend.
Dont tell them that the Hebrew Bible and the Muslim version are Very similar.
Re: Re:
‘Hebrew Bible’ aka ‘Jewish Bible’ aka Torah. Get it right.
Re: Re: Re:
Which with actually is just a collection of myths compiled in a book. That book part of the greater Tanakh. These early myths were rewritten to fit a narrative of the [then] current power class.
The various combined documents explain the discrepancies in Bereshit. Itself a combination of (at least) 7 earlier myths. Those discrepancies evident in todays bible. And interestingly, removed from the koran.
Re: Re: Re:2
Links.
Re: Re: Re:3
I’ve studied comparative religious history and, ancestry, for nearly two decades. Both as a hobby and in professional settings. Mainly because I find god gullibility intriguing.
If you’re a member of the Abrahamic faiths. I’m not interested in a doctrinal discussion here. This is not the site for that.
On the other hand if your open to learning; I’d suggest
Renan: the history and origins of Christianity
Carpenter: pagan and christian creeds
Graves: the world’s 16 crucified saviors
AN: a compendium of pre-Judaic histories
From there try
Law Books of the Desert
Belief and Babylon
Source of the golden calf and other pre-Israeli beliefs.
Towers and gardens
The last 5 manuscripts and that of Graves all cover pre-JCI myths.
You could also look into Jewish mysticism and Jewish Gnosticism.
Re: Re: Re:4
I’ve studied comparative religious history and, ancestry, for nearly two decades.
What you might have done isn’t what everyone on Techdirt’s done. I repeat: links.
Re: Re: Re:5
I did better, I gave you a list of books.
See back in the day, before the interwebs, there were these things called books. They were made out of pages paper, usually from trees but some expensive ones used other materials.
These pages were bound together, by glue, staple, or string.
The pages in the book had words on them.
Now, since some nasty publishers don’t like the modern interwebs, they refuse to upload, (that’s putting data on someone else’s computer) copies of some books.
Many in my list can be found at Amazon.com/co.uk/.de/.it/ etc.
a few are on the internet archive. That would be archive dot org.
And a few you have to track down. Because they exist only as actual books.
Re: Re: Re:6
So you refuse to provide real evidence of your assertions, noted. Free clue: Why should AC or anyone else have to buy something just to learn or not learn what you claim? The Bible and the Koran are both online, so I can’t imagine that other religious texts aren’t either, even if they’re only quoted on Google Books.
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Re: Re: Re:6
Hello. I see that you have an Anonymous Coward problem, is that right?
Please use the flag button over here to your right–use it often, and use it as you would use pesticide, ridding the world of cockroaches.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: Re: Re:7
I’ve taken your advice, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese, and flagged your post accordingly.
Re: Re: Re:7
Since you’re the only “AC” I can see causing a problem, Phillip, I’ve flagged your post just as you advised.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Fuck the Zionist AC above. I get what you are doing–keep it up!
PostFlaviana explains it all.
Re: Re: Re:5
I get what you are doing–keep it up!
You would support trolling, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese, you hypocritical troll.
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Re: Re: Re:6
Commenting is not trolling. What you do is trolling, and others here know it. You a likely ADL spergbot, but really, WGAF? Anyone knows what you are.
Re: Re: Re:7
Commenting is not trolling. What I do is trolling, and others here know it.
FTFY, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. The rest of your “comment” proves that.
Re: Re: Re:7
And yet your posts are the ones that keep getting hidden, Phillip, not those of the AC calling you “Dickcheese”. 😂
Re: Re: Re:7
[Projects facts contrary to all real-world evidence]
Re: Re: Re:7
You’ve previously admitted to being a troll, so this denial rings particularly hollow.
Re: Re: Re:4
4 of those I purchased from Amazon.
Such as https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Sixteen-Crucified-Saviors-Christianity-ebook/dp/B00OD33796/
Now only $0.99 for the less permanent ebook version.
Much of the source documents can be found at https://sacred-texts.com/
For ease of use I purchased the collection on USB.
And you could easily go to a library.
Because much of academic research is paywalled or not online at all.
I’m not here to do all the searching for you.
Re: Re: Re:5
I’m not here to do all the searching for you.
No, but you are expected to provide adequate evidence of all your assertions, as you’ve failed to do for a third time.
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Re: Re: Re:6
DBAC be like “do my homework for me, or I will call you names!”
Re: Re: Re:7
DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese be like, “ACs are all schismogenetic trolls!” then he hypocritically posts as one.
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Re: Re: Re:8
ESAD DBAC. And take your vag-smegma smorgasbord with you, you pathetic clown.
You US-FVEY’s trolls are so obvious.
Re: Re: Re:9
Actually, it’s obvious you’re posting on your own behalf, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Which of us is it that’s obvious now?
Re: Re: Re:9
DBA Philip is the only one I’ve encountered who uses terms like “US-FVEY”, so you’re clearly him.
Re: Re: Re:6
I gave your resources. If you want to take your research online I gave you an online source sacred texts has multiple collections of pre-Jewish mid-eastern documents.
If you can’t be bothered to go to the library, there’s nothing more I’m going to put into it.
I’m done with this
Re: Re: Re:7
I gave your resources.
No, you linked to where the resources could be purchased, which not everyone has the money to do. I’m not the only one would like to read the basis for your claims, you know.
If you want to take your research online I gave you an online source sacred texts has multiple collections of pre-Jewish mid-eastern documents.
Which also have to be purchased, as you admitted in your post.
If you can’t be bothered to go to the library, there’s nothing more I’m going to put into it.
That assumes the texts are available in every library, meaning you’re making an ass out of u and me both, as the saying goes.
I’m done with this.
It’s telling you’d rather completely disengage than provide the evidence for your assertions. Thanks for at least providing the evidence you’re a troll.
Re: Re: Re:8
It’s not my fault knowledge is locked up and costs money. I can’t help that. The vast majority of my research has been in the form of physical books. And occasionally a few ebooks when they cost less than the hard copy; a rarity. I have no control over what rules and prices publishers set, including for much of my own work.
It’s why I’m again not just copyright (as it exists) but copyleft as well.
The entirety of Sacred Works is online for free. The USB (and selected topic CDs) are just better organised by belief system. That is, once you get the hang of the 2 and 3 letter shorthand used for folders, which isn’t always descriptive.
True. But most library systems are partnered to some degree. That is, your local card often works in multiple other locations.
Most libraries now have their collections listed online. So finding a book carried and available isn’t as hard as it was in the 70s.
Online listings, and even reservations, have existed since time-share and BBS days.
Sure, you’ll be hard pressed to find a 1897 copy of The Nicene Church Fathers in a local library. Usually locked to on-site reading in universities. Even more difficult to find the 1898 Ante-Nicene collection. The last editions not under copyright. But both collections are at the internet archive!
This is where o started moving backwards to pre-Jewish systems.
For two opposing groups so deeply vested in the furthering of the beliefs of the Disciples, they cover a LOT of comparative belief aspects.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=nicene+Fathers
(These two libraries are massive collections. Not lite reading).
Another interesting read is through the Nag Hammadi texts. Where library 12, 13, and non-indexed fragments have many references to lost writings and beliefs systems.
I can’t give you what you want. The vast majority of this topic is not open to the general free release.
Decades of research. Yes, some online. Most of it off. What small amount started online still lead to offline books. Manuscripts. And some degree of travel to track stuff.
Even what you can access is not always immediately accessible. Much of the actual text is in Latin and middle Greek for Christin era writings. Both of which I can read rather well with minimal stumbling.
Most Jewish era texts are in Aramaic, or old Hebrew, if you’re lucky. Neither of which I’m beyond level 1, far from proficient. And require help from others.
But those early writings, many are predated by south-west Asian and north-east African myths. Many fragmentary finds have been uncovered. Much of it in such archaic language script it’s… specialist territory. Hence reading what others have wrote. Generally, at cost.
Let me help slightly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible
Most of the entries have online editions you can track down. Often with critical writings with linked references to fragmentary pre-Jewish origins.
The same thing can be followed out with this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_Testament_pseudepigrapha
At least with that route you can follow the link paths through the wild internet.
Re: Re: Re:9 Copy edit
It’s why I’m again
Against
Re: Re: Re:2
Has the idea ever crossed your mind that the notion there is no god might be a myth, or are you as incapable of new ideas as you are of honest dicourse?
Re: Re: Re:3
I’m pretty sure that, when LostinLodos says “myth”, he’s not using the colloquial sense of the term but the scholastic definition, which doesn’t say anything about the accuracy of the tale but is more of a genre sort of thing.
Re: Re: Re:4
Thankyou. Exactly. From an academic standpoint, which cover’s religion, philosophy (including atheism and agnosticism), and belief systems.
I’d technically fall into agnosticism myself, though I’m more a non-deistic believer of planes we do not understand. In practice I’m a pre-deistic Buddhist. Accepting the belief that all that lives must have an energy-based component. Ability to make a choice. Such as how plants choose to lean towards a the sun-path.
I’m Accepting that the statistical probability of an ‘higher’ existence is extremely likely. Regardless of what form or format it takes.
I don’t condemn any individuals’ beliefs. I simply despise the hierarchal structure of control and force used by organising organisations.
The term myth is all encompassing. It places all beliefs on the same level. None above and none below. Because one’s falsehoods are another’s active practice.
Osiris and Set have active worshippers today.
Nordic religion (primarily Odenism) is alive and well with millions of followers. Greek revival. The 12 large branches ow Wicca. The values of olde in North and South America, Japan, China, and much of South Asia
. Persian and ZA both coexist, and both are persecuted.
And while the general populations focus on Satanism being evil or atheist: millions around the world practice “white” or “light” or “good” satanism. Based an either the Jewish idea of the accuser, (the judge in many cases), or the pre Judaic dirty of wisdom and knowledge that became the Jewish/Christian/Islamic Satan. Eg Lucifer.
Again, I’ve studied belief systems comparatively for a long time.
Only two strike me as fraudulent and neither are the one most people harp on.
Two that is, Pasta Monster and Cthulhu.
As Scientology has a rational base and Kopimism is a spiritual practice. A soul practice.
Re: Re: Re:
How about toilet paper, or kindling?
Re:
Beastiality.
I scanned my Bible thoroughly just to check, and although there’s plenty of references regarding sacrificing animals, there’s absolutely nothing about fucking them. Maybe stop reading erotic fiction now?
Re: Re:
While none of the primary characters are shown to engage in it, the bible makes it quite clear it was a common societal occurrence, which it’s multiple reference. Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy.
In fact it was so popular that thousands of years later in the new testament we are still discussing it! Galatians, Romans, Corinthians.
Clearly one of the few things the bible was against (beastiality and false gods, what a mix). But it sure is often discussed.
Finding an exact count is difficult because the use of the term beast references multiple things in the English translation. Including non-christian people. Daemons, the Beast, etc. but many dozens. KJB-O has 8 counts in its educational posting on it. Bible reasons covers 15! And they don’t all overlap.
Not really the kind of thing we should be discussed in grade school. Eh?
Oh!
Like, er, um, the bible? Talk about “torture porn”!!!!
Re: Re: Re:
Like, er, um, the bible? Talk about “torture porn”!!!!
And again you refer to something that’s far more likely to be found in your sexual fantasies.
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Re: Re: Re:2
Or, in your mothers arsenal of tricks to manipulate your sociopathy. LEAVE THAT GOAT ALONE!!! That’s an order!!
Re: Re: Re:3
Looks like you found the way to say, “I’m the hypocritcal troll DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese!” without actually saying it. Well done.
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Re: Re: Re:4
As you have found a way to say narcissistic abuse DBAC troll Thing 1, “Leveraging the New Battlespace.”
Re: Re: Re:5
Use as many sockpuppets as you like, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese, I’ll still know it’s you.
Re: Re: Re:2
Wow you’re out of touch with censorship and moral mandates:
torture porn
noun
informal, censorious a genre of horror films in which sadistic violence or torture is a central aspect of the plot
~dictionary.com
Re: Re: Re:3
The Bible’s as graphic as the Saw franchise? 😮
Re: Re: Re:4
Considerably more violent. The death toll in the bible is rather stratospheric. To play with words. Where Saw was a commentary on consumerism…
The bible condones raping non-believers.
And/or enslaving Them. Well, whatever was left of the women and children. The males were nearly always killed.
In fact, they killed their own people just as often.
Re: Re: Re:5
Well, ther’s also some action movie scenes, like that one time a man beat a crowd of attackers to death… WITH A DONKEY’S JAWBONE. The same guy also had a rather sordid life as one of God’s action heroes too… Samson’s story is a riot.
Oh, and that one time a prophet summoned a bear to maul disrespectful kids with the power of prayer and faith.
King David? Man had a bunch of crazy plans to hide the fact he had sex with someone else’s wife…
Plenty of fun stuff that’s not for kids in the Bible.
And then there’s the Songs of Solomon…
Re: Re: Re:6
And that’s still not graphic because it’s text only. Images of those events would be more graphic, especially if they were moving.
Re: Re: Re:5
Free clue: “graphic” refers to how specific content is shown, not how much there is of it. Is English not your first language?
Re: Re: Re:6
Once upon a time “graphic” meant “having to do with images” or maybe “explicit”. Now somehow it means “disturbing” or “extreme”.
Re: Re: Re:7
Graphic in terms of a referral can also mean the “level” or “quantity” or “amount”
Eg MPAA: graphic nudity, graphic violence, graphic language.
In the case of the bible, if it were a word-for-word script filmed
The likely MPAA rating would be
R: mild language, graphic violence, disturbing images, mild nudity, and moderate abhorrent behaviour, including rape and sexual assault.
Re: Re: Re:8
The MPAA has the same meaning for “graphic” as the dictionary does, not your personal definition.
Re: Re: Re:9
Funny Pages
R
Rated R for crude sexual content, graphic nudity, language and brief violent images.
Re: Re: Re:8
“Graphic”; you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Re: Re: Re:8
The two ACs who already responded are right. I have a movie with a warning for strong violence because there’s numerous fist fights through it, but a horror movie I own has a warning for graphic violence even though there’s not nearly as many violent scenes as the other movie.
Re: Re: Re:4
Even more, considering the real world actions of it’s acolytes.
Re: Re: Re:5
And here comes another fool that hasn’t looked up the definition of the word “graphic”. m-/
Re: Re: Re:6
“Graphic” is often used to mean “extreme”, “gratuitous”, or “numerous”. You may not agree with those definitions, but those are commonly used. I mean, originally, it meant “via picture”, but it has since expanded to things with no images at all (like songs and picture-less books), so there is historical precedent for the word to change its meaning in this context.
Re: Re: Re:7
Then you need to tell the MPAA about that new definition, because they give a warning for “graphic violence” in a movie with a few gory murders, but only warn of moderate violence in a movie with numerous fist fights.
Re: Re: Re:
So a mention of someone being “tied up” is a BDSM movie now? Wow!
Re: jewish bible is
the Tanakh
The Hebrew Bible or Tanakh[a] (/tɑːˈnɑːx/;[1] Hebrew: תָּנָ״ךְ, pronounced [taˈnaχ] or [təˈnax]), also known in Hebrew as Mikra (/miːˈkrɑː/;[1] Hebrew: מִקְרָא), is the canonical collection of Hebrew scriptures, including the Torah, the Nevi’im, and the Ketuvim.
Dysfunction-a-plenty
The main problem isn’t the District in this case, it’s ultra-conservative School Board Members. The District after thoughtful review of the originally questioned titles decided they all should go back up on the shelves. The new board members decided to go against the wishes of the district and community and mandate pulling books again. In response the school district decided to pull anything questioned knowing full well it went beyond just what the School Board intended.
Re:
Thanks for that info. It’s provided much needed context that doesn’t often make it into news reports.
Re: Re:
In context it’s actually rather amusing. The district just gave the board a double middle finger!
Re: Re: Re:
Technically, it’s called malicious compliance.
I don’t think it fits this particular case though…
Re: Re: Re:2
Probably not, but I think the irony works just as well.
Re:
I’m dying over Collier County school board’s idea of compromise. They have created a somewhat lengthy warning label to stock on the inside of cover of any book (and the digital library description) that was flagged but not ultimately removed. This includes the beloved Everywhere Babies, and the warning is longer than multiple pages worth of text in the book. For anyone unfamiliar, it’s a beautifully illustrated book about babies, being loved & cared for by diverse families. It’s just prescious & 1 of my daughter’s favorites. I can’t help but wonder, can’t kids look at those books while in the library, as they decide which ones they wish to check out? And can’t a child freely share and show their library book to other children, including those prohibited to check out the flagged book? Obviously, a book with a warning label becomes more attractive as kids reach higher grades, so this is just increasing the likelihood of interest.
The school districts are really struggling to determine their exact legal risk with all these stupid censorship laws, plus they are getting ridiculous challenges from those idiot Moms for liberty (I can’t stand that those women are using the word liberty, which is my daughter’s middle name, to fight against liberty) & other backwards authoritarian types. It’s one thing if you wish to prevent your own child from becoming an empathetic & caring person by denying them exposure to inclusive materials, quite another to rip that from the children that aren’t their own. Frankly, I kind of feel like the ability of parents to challenge materials & opt out of certain- that is sex ed & Black History, Pride month events- should end at 3rd grade. Kids have the right to accurate information about their bodies and sex, as well as perspectives from the diverse community they live in. The school should not be empowered to censor certain approved & appropriate materials from certain kids no matter who is demanding it.
People who aren’t teachers shouldn’t be controlling what schools teach just like they shouldn’t be telling Drs how to practice medicine, or what HR training a company selects for their needs.
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Re: Re:
Get ’em young, they say, whoever “they” are.Reduxx has a few stories about books that you might also like your kid to read:
Thoughts on where the line might be in all of that?
Re: Re: Re:
So because genuine commenters are totally for freedom of expression within the law means that we welcome expressions that are illegal in multiple countries? Can you say “non sequitur,” DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese?
Re: Re: Re:2
Notice how rogs is the one and only poster here with knowledge and possession of all these trolling and pedophile handbooks he projects onto the real humans here.
Re: Re: Re:
This trolling is pathetic even by your usual standards.
Re: Re: Re:
Reduxx is nothing more than transphobic & Q adjacent fear & hate mongering garbage. They appropriate the word feminism for anti-feminist purposes and apparently think they can attack certain children, their families, trusted teachers & providers, & be pro-child at once.
Just wondering, what would make you think I, or anyone else would be so naive and stupid enough to believe such unabashed bigotry & lies? You serve it up like it’s some kind of fact. Has it ever occurred to your tiny little mind that this hate propaganda actually distracts attention from legitimate harm to women & children? You make it impossible to educate people by using vocabulary, that none of you actually understand, so out of context & repeated ad infinitum. You will lose this culture war eventually, society will always move to being more inclusive even if it trips over you trolls along the way.
Re: Re:
If you think about it, those moms are for liberty: the liberty to impose restrictions on others, especially their speech. 😉
Re: Re: Re:
Yes I know, lots of those bigots use words like liberty & freedom to appeal to patriotic types and to whitewash their actual goals. Religious freedom doesn’t mean the right & ability to freely practice and live by your convictions, which is good thing, but rather to exclude & discriminate against anyone who doesn’t hold the same “religious” values in public settings. It’s part of the DARVO strategy employed by sociopaths, and perfected by TFG (South Park nails it, along with quite a bit of obnoxious white victimhood)
Re: Re:
In fairness, they are fighting for liberty. In fact, the original name they’d come up with was “Moms For Cis Hetero Conservative Christian White Guy Liberty”, but they cut it down due to length and for being too on-the-nose to get support from anyone else.