FBI Admits To Using Drones To Spy On Americans
from the feeling-safer? dept
Most people in the US still associate government use of drones with far away places. But they might want to start paying more attention to what’s happening over their own heads. The FBI has now admitted that it uses drones for surveillance purposes domestically. Though FBI director Robert Mueller said that it was done in a “very, very minimal way, very seldom,” this is still the first admission that it has happened. Mueller seemed open to having Congress legislate how it can use drones. Oddly, members of Congress who seem unconcerned about the NSA’s mass dragnet of information, are apparently concerned about domestic drone use:
Dianne Feinstein, who is also chair of the Senate intelligence committee, said the issue of drones worried her far more than telephone and internet surveillance, which she believes are subject to sufficient legal oversight.
I would argue that both are worrying, in large part because the use of both have been secret to the American public until recent revelations. At the very least, these kinds of surveillance deserve a very public debate about whether or not they are appropriate.
Filed Under: domestic surveillance, drones, fbi, robert mueller, surveillance
Comments on “FBI Admits To Using Drones To Spy On Americans”
I’m sure horse_with_no_name will be around to tell us how this isn’t really a big deal, cuz y’know terrorists and stuff.
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He will be followed by AJ extolling the virtues of milk.
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And Out of the Blue with claims of how Google is already doing this and Mike is just trying to cover it up.
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Lol. Blue showed up 3 minutes after your comment saying exactly that:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130619/10213023529/fbi-admits-to-using-drones-to-spy-americans.shtml#c203
Predictable troll is predictable.
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Nothing he says is ever that clear though because he has to talk through having uncle sam’s dick in his mouth.
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why these comments are flagged?
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Because they’re off topic.
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And abusive.
Watching hearing now
I’m watching the video of this morning Senate Judiary Committee’s hearing Oversight of the Federal Bureau of Investigation right now on C-SPAN.
Re: Watching hearing now
I’m sitting at my desk reading your comment about watching the Senate hearing right now. Just thought you would like to know.
Re: Re: Watching hearing now
So where’s the link to your webcam?
Yes, I would like the url for your webcam feed.
china
So again, what was the difference between China and the US?
Re: china
From Seattle, around 4400 miles.
Re: Re: china
Is that around the Earth or through it? Because the Prenda Tunnel to China has to be complete by now.
Re: Re: Re: china
It was across it. But I wasn’t aware that Prenda finished the tunnel.
Hell, that could save alot of miles.
Re: china
Ummm… [Quickly removes tinfoil hat, dons thinking cap.] China physically occupies a different continent? Yup. That’s the correctest answer. I’m sure. Ahhh… Is this a trick question?
This isn’t related to the article or anything, but, how much does a surface-to-air missile launch system cost? Or perhaps a radar guided AAA?
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Price in Syria for a Russian ?export? grade system?
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A couple of millions maybe with the missiles going for 4 figures a pop, you better off developing your own radar and tracking system to zap mosquitoes of course.
The FBI and NSA need to kill everyone. Then, there’d be no more terrorists. It’s the only solution.
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They’re already buying each other beers for supporting the surveillance programs:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344098/NSA-hearing-Hot-mic-catches-NSA-boss-praising-FBI-chiefs-supportive-testimony-surveillance-programs.html
Feinstein should be impeached and removed from office immediately. It is obvious that she is no longer willing to uphold the Constitution.
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actually the drones are far less worrying. They are just a convenient way of removing the focus from the real surveillance problems.
Btw. Merkel was digging a bit at Obama in Berlin on the surveillance cases: “There needs to be a balance and we will continue to work with USA to find the right balance.”
Obama instantly answered that “USA already had found the right balance.”…
Given how this balance is individual for every person on earth I call bull on that…
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What a jackass response.
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“right balance”
We’ve only pissed off half the country, so perfect balance!
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Did he found the left balance too?
Feinstein is worried by some ‘security’ measure? Must be truly diabolically terrifying for that to be the case given her usual position.
So what’s the law regarding Lasers and Drones?
I know on Airplanes it’s illegal due to pilot blinding, but that shouldn’t be an issues with drones.
http://biglasers.com/1w-blue-laser-pointer
Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
You are ready for the next stage, have given up — or worse, don’t even grasp that you should be — fighting Google.
Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up same place!
http://techdirt.com/
Masnicking: daily spurts of short and trivial traffic-generating items.
Re: Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
You keep repeating this as if it were relevant.
Here are a few reasons, off the top of my head, why it isn’t…
1.) I don’t have to use Google. I can use different products.
2.) Google is a private company. They cannot arrest me.
3.) The FBI/NSA are part of my government. They have the power to arrest me.
4.) The FBI/NSA have a long history of lying about who they are spying on and abusing their powers.
Re: Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
I imagine people are aware of the pitfalls of google and how it makes money. However, others don?t feel the need to put on foil hats and shout in the streets incoherently. Google?s antics are the price of free. You can limit what they take from you, or you can avoid their services all together. Though, I think it?s well enough to work within their system, but still retain some assembly of yourself. I?m not sure Google is dragging the sky down on top of us like you seem to betray it.
That you go full conspiracy theorist with your ranting?s, it discredits your arguments. Your message ends up getting ignored and you get belittled. You do more harm than good. You accomplish nothing except to thrust people further into the arms of google.
If you?re actually concerned about google and want people to know about its follies, you?re doing an awful job. If you?re a troll just trolling to troll, well than, you?re doing a bit better at that. Perhaps if your true intentions are to enlighten people on google, you should consider just doing it to be a troll. Least than you?d be somewhat successful in your dealings.
Re: Re: Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
Indeed. Speaking as a person who is highly critical of Google and encourages people to be wary of them, Blue’s attempts are counterproductive in the extreme. He comes off as a lunatic, and so allows people to write off folks who point out the real trade-offs Google presents as just one of the lunatic crowd.
If Blue really wanted to raise awareness about Googly issues, he’d be well advised to talk like a rational person. Or, if that’s impossible, to at least shut up and let others do the job.
Re: Re: Re: Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
You know, you might just be on to something!
Counter-conspiracy-theory: Blue actually works for Google, who have hired him as a paid shill to discredit legitimate people seeking to expose their nefarious deeds.
Re: Re: Re: Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
The Crazy Copyright lady will never shut up. Whatever they did to get her panties in a wad she’s gonna carry on till the day she dies, using Google daily and complaining about it here.
Why? A desperate ploy to get attention, perhaps.
Epic butthurt over something so trivial she’s unwilling to talk about it in public?
Whatever it is, Cathy is so deranged she can’t even get the other trolls on board.
Let’s stop responding to her. She’s too nuts to pay attention to anyone who doesn’t immediately agree with everything she says.
Re: Umm, Google has you all accustomed to its spying.
WILL YOU JUST STFU ALREADY.
I don’t know you guys. These comments feel a bit lonely without the usual cast of characters trolling it up. Where’s my best buddy here screaming about mike milking it? I’m worried he has fallen and can’t get up. We should send some help. Maybe the FBI (Or NSA for that matter) can help us locate him.
Where can I torrent the "best of surveillance" video?
I bet that there’s a lot of surveillance of topless beaches, clothing-optional beaches, beaches in general, and swimming pools in expensive parts of the towns where drones are based.
I bet there’s just *tons* of surveillance done over by sorority row, too.
Re: Where can I torrent the "best of surveillance" video?
Have to calibrate those cameras somehow and what better than perky nipples?
Have another report vote ootb for another post having no bearing on the topic.
————
I have come to the realization that nothing involving the present day scandals can be believed when I hear politicians mouths move.
The investigations into the NLS have already shown that any time the system can be abused it will be.
Lots of room to debate drones
Honestly, there is a lot of room to debate when and how the use of drones is appropriate inside the US and what is done with the data after a drone is flown.
I know it’s not against the law for an unmarked police car, for example, to follow me down the road as I drive. A manned drone seems, on the surface, to be an extension of this. However a drone is not restricted to the same paths and views that a car is (which is one of the strengths of a drone.) In my mind, this raises the following questions.
1. If a person is nude sunbathing in the privacy of their own, fenced, backyard and a police drone flies over.. what protections exist to prevent that part of that video from being kept, perused, taken home, posted on youtube, etc… Can an FOI be used to get copies of drone flight video’s?
2. If damage is done by a drone (breaks window, shorts power line) who is responsible?
3. What type of encryption will be used to protect flight controls for drones from being hacked? What sort of encryption for video streams to prevent from being recorded by third parties?
4. What restrictions will be placed on the correct use of drones? can building and safety use it (as they have been using google maps) to look into peoples backyards for code violations? Will a warrant be needed to use them? Can they only be used to follow individuals or can the forestry service use them to look for fires/drugs/poachers/etc?
5. What laws will be in place for private use of drones? To the best of my knowledge, if your not using them for commercial purpose you can fly video drones right now below 500ft. but if your using them for commercial purpose then it’s against FAA regulations.
So in my mind, there are lots of questions that need to be asked BEFORE we begin general use of drones within the borders of the united states. I hope they are being considered.
Boojum the brown bunny
Re: Lots of room to debate drones
Living Under Drones: Death, Injury and Trauma to Civilians from US Drone Practices in Pakistan Google then read.
Re: Re: Lots of room to debate drones
Living
Under
Drones:
Death,
Injury, and
Trauma to
Civilians…civilians should be changed to “Everyone”.
Re: Lots of room to debate drones
All of these same issues also could apply to helicopters, which are over our heads every day, as well as small planes flying low and “monitoring” traffic.
Re: Re: Lots of room to debate drones
The main difference is that the drones are stealthy. You wouldn’t necessarily know if one is circling over your yard. Helicopters, etc., are not.
Re: Re: Re: Lots of room to debate drones
A helicopter can be a mile or more away and still zoom in on your privates and you won’t hear or see it.
Re: Lots of room to debate drones
if its a war crime ‘over there’, why ain’t it a war crime ‘over here’ ? ? ?
aside from the mere factoid that 99%+ of our kongresskritters piss on the constitution and bill of rights on at least a three-month basis; aside from how our modern ‘papers and effects’ have mutated to a digital world unanticipated, BUT WHICH SHOULD STILL BE COVERED; and aside from the dubious value of these insane systems; i am looking in my popular science speculation crystal ball, and it ain’t too long out where we have ‘nanobots’ of various scales…
if we establish the ‘principle’ that unobtrusive surveillance is ‘okay’, then what is to stop The They ™ from putting a nanobot up your butt ? ? ?
nothing but a threadbare pair of tidy whities…
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
Re: Lots of room to debate drones
Some will reserve the right to down such drones. Alsi if they using them they will eventually arm them.
Pro tip: Drones don’t have infrared filters.
Any strong source of infrared light blinds cameras.
😉
http://hacknmod.com/hack/blind-cameras-with-an-infrared-led-hat/
http://www.wikihow.com/Blind-a-Surveillance-Camera
http://boingboing.net/2008/02/20/infrared-leds-make-y.html
Also useful against speed cameras, they can’t read the plate number and they just look like normal illumination.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d85_1351163428&comments=1
http://mods-n-hacks.wonderhowto.com/inspiration/infrared-leds-protect-your-license-plate-number-from-police-cams-0128008/
Who cares. They already have helicopters and satellites that can look down upon you. If they send up a helicopter it probably takes 3 cops. If they send up a drone, it takes one with a joystick. Saves the taxpayers money.
What do you honestly think they are going to do with these drones? Spy on you? Are you really that important? I’ll bet my left one that they will use them to watch the borders for illegals, Chase bank robbers, Watch known drug houses, etc etc. Wow what a horrible idea.
If you don’t want to be seen nude in your backyard than don’t go outside without clothes on.
Stop bitching about everything that the government does. You elected them. If you don’t like it than run for your local seat.
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And if you don’t say something and spread the awareness, the government will figure the populace don’t care. With that in mind, I can see them doing far worse over time.
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If they are restricted to flying over ‘dangerous’ territory, i.e. desserts, mountains and forests, then I see no real problem with them. That is flown over territory where a crash is unlikely to hurt anyone, and if a manned aircraft went down rescue attempts would be expensive and difficult.
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No, it doesn’t. It just means that they’ll do three times as much surveillance.
As with the other spying issues, the point isn’t that you, or I, in particular are being surveilled. It’s that massive surveillance has a large number of detrimental effects to society as a whole, and that the cops & spy outfits have repeatedly demonstrated, over a period of many decades, that they will inevitably use their new power to do things like suppress legitimate dissent, punish political enemies, etc.
This is a stunning statement. So now we have to refrain from legal activity in the privacy of our own land just so cops get to play with their new toys?
I don’t bitch about everything the government does. I bitch about the things I see the government doing wrong. This is not only my right, but it is my responsibility as a citizen.
For the record, I don’t think the drones issue is nearly as big of a deal as the telephone spying, but there’s no reason not to call out both of these as issues that need to be addressed.
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I’ll bet my left one that they will use them to watch the borders for illegals, Chase bank robbers, Watch known drug houses, etc etc.
It is the “etc. etc.” that concerns any rational person…mainly because that is the same description of the extent to which their surveillance is limited.
she would change her mind pretty quick if she found out that she was on the list to be spied on. she would then learn how the rest of us feel!
How long before
How long before we have Nazi “education centers”
Nazi Prison work camps
Nazi Death camps
soon , its in the works
The FBI is gay and so are its drones.
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Are you suggesting those drones will zero in on the straights more than gays?
The Real Enemy
Obviously the US Government feels that the real enemy is the American people. They have systematically set out to attack them at every opportunity and destroy that which they are suppose to uphold, the American Constitution.
Re: The Real Enemy
You got it wrong; they are ‘sworn’ to uphold.
Police and news copters
We’ve had them for decades and we all rely on them to bring us the latest high speed chase.
Maybe with drones we can get a closer view.
Looking on the positive side, it’s very possible that if they see me without my clothes in my backyard they may not come back.
Of course, seldom
It was done in a “very, very minimal way, very seldom,”
because “We have very few and have limited use.”
I’m sure that if they had a couple hundred thousand, it would have rather been done in a “very, very maximal way, very liberally.”
What is seldom?
What exactly do they mean by seldom or limited?
What exactly do they mean? 0.005 percent seems like a reasonable figure for seldom and limited.
If it is just 0.005 percent of the population was watched by a drone then do the math:
300,000,000 X 0.005 = 1500000.
That’s 1.5 million people!
From Star Wars...
We are witnessing the death of the Republic to thunderous applause.
However, in our case, it’s probably apathy and indifference.
No time for politics, gotta make my car payment, mortgage payment, get next to the cute blond, take the kids to school…
There are so many excuses.
Then, all of sudden and before you know it:
It’s 3 am:
KNOCK! KNOCK! KNOCK! BAM!
Don’t worry sir, this is for your own protection. Just put your hands behind your back while we put this black hood over your head…
Your family? What family…
Drones
Honestly, I don’t get the current obsession over drones. What does it matter which type of *vehicle* they use for surveillance? Whether it’s a drone or a helicopter or satellite is irrelevant; the surveillance is the same.
They’ve been looking down on us for years with satellites, but now that they’ve used a drone to do the exact same thing, suddenly we all clutch our pearls in horror? Makes no sense.
Today's government
In today’s America the government is corrupt it nukes us its spy on us they even threaten to kill any body that find out there secret.
Hopefully people realize that we could overthrow the government
like it says in the constitution
drooones!!!!!
In my opinion, drones are creepy enough, but the US government is going farther by spying on the citizens with little drones that look like things you see pretty much everyday such as birds and insects.Doing that they are violating the right to privacy.
here are a couple links that might nterest you
http://www.wired.com/2007/10/insect-drones-s/#previouspost
^This link is about how some drones that look like little dragonflies were spotted in the skies by some teenagers.
Heres a quote by the college senior of new york”I look up and I?m like, ?What the hell is that?? They looked kind of like dragonflies or little helicopters. But I mean, those are not insects.
http://www.wired.com/2009/01/pentagons-cybor/
^this link is about the cyborg beetles that are spying on you on behalf of the pentagon.
Here’s a quote from Tech-Onreports… Perhaps you are not particularly worried about the idea of remote-controlled insects spying on you, on behalf of the Pentagon. Darpa-funded researchers at the University of California, Berkeley would like to disabuse you of that notion. They?ve succeeded in “controlling a live rhinoceros beetle by radio,” Tech-Onreports.
DRONES ARE JUST CREEPY