Limited Unlimited Doubletalk: Unlimited Data For Limited Types Of Data

from the got-that? dept

The story of bogus “unlimited” services, especially from Verizon Wireless who has been offering extremely limited EVDO wireless service which they advertise as “unlimited,” isn’t new at all. For quite some time, we’ve been wondering why no one has gone after them for false advertising. Still, the execs at Verizon Wireless keep trying to talk their way out of the fact that they kick people off the network if they use more than 10 gigs a month of service (that’s a limit, right?) even if that number isn’t listed in any marketing or legal material. Recently, a Verizon Wireless exec tried to brush off the issue by claiming (falsely) that they could kick people off, but didn’t. Considering how many times we’ve seen complaints from people suddenly cut off by Verizon Wireless, that seems to be an outright lie.

Now, Broadband Reports notes that Consumer Affairs has noticed this issue as well (someone there was cut off with no warning). They went to Verizon Wireless and got some amazing executive doublespeak in response. A spokesperson claimed: “It’s very clear in all the legal materials we put out.” Right. See, it’s not at all clear in the marketing material that they use to actually sell the service to you. There, it says “Unlimited” in big letters. It’s only in the fine print of the legalese that no one reads that they let you know you can’t really use the service for very much. Then comes my favorite line: “It’s unlimited amounts of data for certain types of data.” Ah, it’s unlimited for limited kinds of data. How could anyone possibly be confused? Of course, even that’s false. They’re cutting off anyone with over 10gigs of data — no matter what kind of data it is — by claiming the only way you could possibly use 10gigs in a month is to use prohibited types of data. Either way, for those who keep claiming that things like EVDO are a true alternative to DSL, it seems Verizon Wireless’ continuing effort to doublespeak their way around this issue suggests otherwise.

Rate this comment as insightful
Rate this comment as funny
You have rated this comment as insightful
You have rated this comment as funny
Flag this comment as abusive/trolling/spam
You have flagged this comment
The first word has already been claimed
The last word has already been claimed
Insightful Lightbulb icon Funny Laughing icon Abusive/trolling/spam Flag icon Insightful badge Lightbulb icon Funny badge Laughing icon Comments icon

Comments on “Limited Unlimited Doubletalk: Unlimited Data For Limited Types Of Data”

Subscribe: RSS Leave a comment
bblinx says:

kicked off of verizon EVDO

I was very annoyed to be kicked off – especially since the client software log only showed 6 GB of usage. They refused to give me any sort of refund too, and I have decided to stop using Verizon services as a result. It would seem that heavy users and early adopters like myself are exactly the right customers they want, if they could figure out the right pricing/traffic model…

Anonymous Coward says:

Large files to intranet?

So… if I have to transmit large database files with customer records back and forth from my laptop to my company intranet, i can exceed the 10G limit? How do they know the difference?

… oh wait… they port the traffic through AT&T’s network and have the NSA analyze it for them…

Craig says:

Re: Large files to intranet?

No they don’t monitor, they just kick you off if you use over 5gb average per month over two months (5gb per month) or 10gb in a single month.

It jut happened to me, while using my card for business. No streaming, MP3’s or anything like that, just on the road for two months and bam… no more Internet.

Mark Kitchen (user link) says:

Reminds me of Omnisky

I used to work for Omnisky back in the day – unlimited transfer at 19.2k with overhead (9.6k actual throughput). We had customers running up thousands of $ with the carriers, but only paying 49$ a month if my memory serves me correctly.

Hell, there are several web servers for the Palm OS, 2 of which we ran at HQ to test applications.

C’est la vie

Myself says:

It's quite possible!

Just watch VCast as much as the average household watches TV, and you should be pushing a few gig a month easily. Watch them try to bitch.

What’s worse is that Sprint is using a bandwidth cap to “figure out” when people are tethering their handsets to a laptop, as opposed to using data on the handset only. (The latter “requires” a more expensive plan.) As phones get more capable, this line is only going to blur further. Any phone with a MiniSD slot is capable of using *immense* data volumes, no tethering needed. I’d happily demonstrate 20G/mo data usage on such a handset, if they’d like to watch me do it.

Bill M. (profile) says:

Go with Sprint

The Consumer Affairs article has an interesting section from the Verizon terms of service:

“…services cannot be used: (1) for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games; (2) with server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing.”

I just bought a Palm 700p from Sprint. Sprint also uses an EVDO network. Interesting to note that they (Sprint) have a picture of Fox News channel right on the box and prominently feature streaming television, movies, radio, etc. in the literature/documentation and in the device itself. They also make it easy to upload photos and even videos to their PictureMail service (as well as other users).

I would urge Verizon customers to “vote with their pocketbook” at their earliest convenience and switch to Sprint. By the way, their customer service has been amazing.

Anonymous Coward says:


I’m glad. I have it on my work phone and its horrible connectivity. “Can you hear me now?” Yes, but you sound like a robot with a speech impediment in a cave.

I really am glad when I hear about companies shooting themselves in the foot. Without a doubt this will create more demand for services like WiMAX. The reason people go over the 10 gig limits is that they are using it for home wireless broadband (mostly) and there is demand for that sort of thing, but EVDO is the wrong solution. I’m glad Verizon isn’t letting it become the choice solution because we need companies to fill the space of wireless broadband with appropriate technologies and I think EVDO is too little too late for that space.

Bud says:

Not Surprised

I’m actually not surprised at this at all. A very close friend used to work for Verizon Wireless. It was interesting to hear some of the stuff she used to tell me.

More than likely, it’s all about bandwidth. In many markets, there is barely enough bandwidth as it is for regular phone service, let alone broadband. I’m shocked that some markets actually have the service, since some markets could barely handle the calls, let alone the data.

Lay Person says:

So what?


This is hardly news. Companies, especially financial institutions, advertise in this manner all day long. All advertising is is a big lie. Nothing new. It really comes down to “buyer beware,” always learn before you buy. The law does not protect us from companies that lie in advertisements. Even if they disclose it, it’s in fine print or they provide an asterisk that references a disclosure on, perhaps, a completely different page. It’s all smoke and mirrors people. In fact, the last person any potential customer wants to listen to are the advertisers. Patrons ought to do their own research and not depend on the wolf for information as to where the sheep are.

Aaron says:

I can top that.

I signed up for ‘unmetered’ access with a local company a few months ago. Then one month I get cut off for going over 2.5G for the month.

Even *if* they say it was the wrong kind of data (and even *if* they had been up front about that restriction), it was very clearly ‘metered’ or they wouldn’t know how much I had used!

My actual damages (paying for a service I didn’t get for a week) were only some $5, so I didn’t make a fuss after it got turned back on, but there’s absolutely no question that it was false advertizing. If I were a business that lost a single customer over that, I’d have sued them to the ground.

Some One says:

They didn't even d/l 10 gigs!

Whats even funnier, is that consumer affairs didn’t even download TWO GIGS!!

Verizon includes a thing that tells you how much you’ve d/led and they d/led less than two gigs in a whole year!!

They included a screen shot with the totals.

So basically they cut them off with 2 gigs in a full year.

David Blaylock (user link) says:

We're to blame, not Verizon.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better. Everyone of us is responsible for letting the telcos get away with this behavior. Everyone complains and blogs about it, but what have YOU done to change the laws that give Verizon so much power and prevent competition?

The New Internet Access Cartel

..”Along with his equally obstinate telco and cable cousins bred by the FCC in the U.S., they [the telcos] are doing exactly what they were taught to do. Thrive in a regulatory environment and make absolutely sure, at all costs, that competition never jeopardizes the future of the family.”..

Dino M. Zaffina, J.D. says:

Re: Re: Re: We're to blame, not Verizon.

Dear Big B,

In my case they waived the termination fee.

Attention Verizon Wireless Broadband Victims:

I have commenced a Class Action lawsuit in California against Verizon Wireless for their deceptive advertising and business tactics regarding their broadband wireless service using their “AirCard.”

If there are any victims whose service has been terminated in 2006, please contact me at and I will lead you in the right direction to be part of the class to fight back.

Dino M. Zaffina, J.D.

DREW says:

Verizon SUCKS

When we joined with Verizon I got a 2 year plan it was going to be like $79.99 a month. My lover’s plan was like $99.00 a month.We each had like the $5.00 net fee and the $2.00 free. Both plans included unlimited use of all other upgrades. We never went over our time and our bill has never been under $375.00 My lover called and they told him that there was no errors on there part. I still have the sales ticket from the store. He dont want me to call them I tell you what that is like $2,000 extra in 2 years.

He did change to a family plan we and now our bill is like $454.14 for both this is crazy but wha tcan you do? You got to have the phone

Pat (user link) says:

verizon sucks

Yup. After Circuit City based Verizon Wireless sold me a VW Broadband/National Access Card with “UNLIMITED” use, I just got disconnected for —they words ‘streaming video.’ I had no clue that downloading iTunes podcasts would be a violation of my contract. UNLIMITED USE?? Verizon lies. I haven’t found my contract yet, but Verizon is saying that the broadband unlimited use is only good for ‘internet surfing’ and email. THAT’S it. So if you are going to buy a wireless broadband card for your laptop, don’t go with the Verizon contract. They will screw you royal!! IT is NOT ‘UNLIMITED’ use.

Jason C. says:

Re: verizon sucks

Hey Pat, I feel your pain. I just got the letter of termination today. I had actually told the sales rep. at the time that I was going to be using the service for downloading podcasts, and she told me that she would check with the data department and see if that was okay. After checking with the data department they told her that it was fine, long as I wasn’t doing anything illegal…

Guess what… it wasn’t okay… and I got a letter stating, “…your usage over the past 30 days exceeded 10 gigabytes. This level of usage is so extraordinarily high that it could only have been attained by activities, such as streaming and/ or downloading movies and video, prohibited by the terms and conditions. Based on these facts, your extraordinarily high levels of usage conclusively demonstrate a violation of the terms and conditions, and your account will be terminated on 8/23/2006.”

After calling and talking to the fraud department (of which they reference you to call for any questions) and then customer service, they weren’t willing to do anything for me…

I plan on canceling my phone plan with Verizon now and paying the early termination fee. That’s $110 a month they’ll be losing now, and I had a two year contract with them on both my phone and broadband service – that’s $2200 in sales they’ll be loosing from me – well, maybe $2000 minus the $200 early termination fee they’ll undoubtedly be charging me. I’d rather take the penalty and take my money elsewhere, though… It’d be cheaper moving to Sprint and paying $20 less for the wireless broadband access than staying with Verizon for phone service and paying $20 more for wireless broadband access with Sprint…

As for limited for certain types of data… They told me that it didn’t matter what I downloaded, but dealt with the amount I downloaded… So it doesn’t matter what you download, if you exceed their arbitrary limit you’re done…

Despite they’re sales representative misinforming me, they still refused to refund the $50 I paid for the air card.

‘Nuff said… I should of listened to everyone and stayed away from Verizon.

Michele C says:

Re: Re: verizon sucks

My only experience with Verizon was a short one. In a weak and desperate moment (you know, the kind where you want to believe what you’re being told because your last company lied to you…), I accepted a pretty Motorola Razr phone and signed a two year contract. I had held up my current Motorola Razr, and said, “I want one just like this one, but a different color.” The darling clerk assured me the new was just like the old, and could perform the same functions with Motorola phone tools on my pc. She either lied or was very wrong. I soon discovered the phone was not the same model as my old one, and it could not do what I needed it to do with my pc. I neatly packed everything up and took it back to Best Buy, as instructed. Best Buy said they could accept the return of the phone, but I had to go to a Verizon place to get out of the chains. I did that, and ended up pleading my case to a superior on the phone. She let me out of the chains, but lo and behold, my credit card was still charged for an activation fee and several days’ usage. As to an air card: My roommate has had Sprint for almost two years and is delighted. I signed up about 4 months ago and am equally delighted. I upload a lot of pictures to my website, and nobody has told me I’m uploading too much. Smooches to Sprint.

Dino M. Zaffina, J.D. says:

Re: verizon sucks

Dear Pat,

Very important: I need to know the location of that Circuit City. Is it in California by any chance?

Thank you.

Attention Verizon Wireless Broadband Victims:

I have commenced a Class Action lawsuit in California against Verizon Wireless for their deceptive advertising and business tactics regarding their broadband wireless service using their “AirCard.”

If there are any victims whose service has been terminated in 2006, please contact me at and I will lead you in the right direction to be part of the class to fight back.

Dino M. Zaffina, J.D.

Dan Doucet says:

Did not get cut off buy was charged over $700

Last week i got call from a bill collector informing me that i was delinquet with verizon broadband bill. Turns out this bill was for over $700 for using their “UNLIMITED” Broadband card for just a couple of weeks before i termininated it because i felt it was not a justifiable expense. I had to pay for a portion of this bill to protect my credit line but now i still owe over $500 bucks according to them! has anyone else ever been charged like this!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Did not get cut off buy was charged over $700

They tried doing this to me when I canceled my service. First, they tried to charge me the $175 early termination fee they said they’d wave when they canceled my account. Second, they triple charged my account on all the taxes / governmental fees for each of my lines I canceled. My bill ended up coming out to be over $500.

I called and complained and they adjusted my balance down to the proper amount I owed. ($110 for the previous months statement plus the $175 early termination fee for my phone line I canceled since they canceled my broadband service).

Unfortunately, unlike me it doesn’t sound like you have previous months bills that you can reference to see where you were overcharged…

Good luck, and stick to your guns!

Dino M. Zaffina, J.D. says:

Verizon Wireless Sued Again!

Attention Verizon Wireless Broadband Victims:

I have commenced a Class Action lawsuit in California against Verizon Wireless for their deceptive advertising and business tactics regarding their broadband wireless service using their “AirCard.”

If there are any victims whose service has been terminated in 2006, please contact me at and I will lead you in the right direction to be part of the class to fight back.

Dino M. Zaffina, J.D.

Mike says:


I tried to get Verizon to give me some details on their UNLIMITED plan ,
but they refused to give clear answers,

Example: I asked if during Huricaine and I needed to stay in contact with NOAA weather would that be considered streaming and they told me yes — the unlimited service service can not be used for emergencies like weather broadcasts because that means streaming, and streaming must mean you were doing something illegal. So I asked, exactly what information can I download, And what can do that would “not mean some form of streaming” EXAMPLE: like reasearching for the effects of ganglionic-blocking agents and vasoactive drugs. One phone call to their cusmomer office said yes, that would be streaming and I would be dropped from service with out any warning but the next call to that same office ( different person) told me I could do research all day with no problems.

False advertisements and no one can do anything about it,

Helen Davis says:

The skinny on Verizon & Sprint

These 2 extremely large telecommunications giants should be ASHAMED. investors need to be outed our they need to be made aware of the companies that they are investing in. Both have absolutely DISGUSTING customer care with the NASTIEST most unprofessional individuals in the field on this planet. Both promise high connectivity rates etc…etc. Neither delivers unless you are practically living up under one of their cancer-causing towers.
This is a perfect opening slot for investors to create a company that TRULY meets the needs of the people. Just reading this forum alone shows a need for a wireless company that CARES and doesn’t extort money from customers.

My recommendation in the meantime is to NEVER sign a 2 year contract with these demons and try to go with a rent-a-card service where you can use an air-card when you want it, and walk away without committing your life…and first born!

Aside: Sprint will never get my vote for anything other than the only cell services with the MOST FREQUENT disconnections, and an air card that primarily serves up less than dial-up speeds!
Customer “care” doesn’t exist at sprint, nor tech support for that matter. I conclude this generalization thanks to unprofessional, sexist, dull-brained pigs in customer service …won’t mention any names “Supervisor, MARK…”

Noah Almighty says:


I right now am using there “Trial” EVDO and im pretty much gonna get about 30 gigs and tell them to shove it up there a$$ and tell them I dont want it a and thanks for for the free internet for 16 days…..

>>>they should be sued for false advertisement and I did raise alot of hell about it with them but in the mean time im going to get as much as i can during my trial period that way im getting my moneys worth out of the “unlimited internet”

i wish there was a company out there that would tell the truth instead of lying to the public…..

I wish they would go out of business or set it to 100 gig a month limit….

and call it 100GIG a month Limited Internet….

…there no better than AOL of the 90s trying to sell the internet by the hour….

Verizon Wireless Employee says:


I work for Verizon Wireless in sales at probably one of the largest selling data cards stores in my district. As vzw employess we are all informed and disclosed about are products and services and know that our Broad Band Access Cards are unlimited to an extent. Based off of the customers needs and what they will be using an Air Card for I am going to tell them if it will really benefi them or not. If the customer is a heavy data user whom will be streaming video and download music the this isnt somethin I want to sell them because it will come back as a charge back and hurt our comissions. If the customer is a moderate data user who needs to be productive out of office, check emails, pull up web pages for their customers, or simply needs a good internet connection because they cant get local DSL then it may be perfect for them. Never the less its up to the sales person to really quailify a customer for the data card. And completely disclose the terms and conditions (very much so incluing what unlimited data really means). And those of you selling these data cards without full discloser shame on you! And those of you suing Verizon Wireless! Shame on you too! If your gonna be downloading music and streaming video then get cable/dsl! Verizon Wireless is here for you to stay connected, be more productive, and have a multimedia network at your fingertips to have fun!

Well Said- Another Verizon Wireless Employee says:

Re: Discloser

I too work for the company and sell said internet cards. Verizon does advertise unlimited internet/broadband internet connection. But I feel that it is up to the individual salseperson to qualify and fully disclose to their client the terms and conditions of the agreement and the limitations. It is also the responsibility of the consumer to further explore the limitations and most of all ASK QUESTIONS if you do not fully understand. And if you still are unclear, you do have 30 days to return the equipment for a full refund and pay for only the time that you had the service. No early termination fees during that 30 day period. So it does come down to both full disclosure and consumer awareness. As a sales representative I urge both, saves me the pain of a charge back and the consumer the pain of a bad experience with a truly superior wireless provider.

am I going to be duped says:

comment to verizon employee

“And those of you suing Verizon Wireless! Shame on you too! If your gonna be downloading music and streaming video then get cable/dsl! Verizon Wireless is here for you to stay connected, be more productive, and have a multimedia network at your fingertips to have fun!”

I live in the middle of nowhere. I cannot get cable/dsl, all I can get is dialup and that is only at 26.k. I just got my verizon air card and the rep told me that it was unlimited. I explained to her that I lived in the country and we have teenagers and would be using it to look at things like youtube and listening to podcasts. All the things like regular people who have internet can do. She told me that it was fine and that I had unlimited use. After reading this web page I am now scared. So far we have used 3gigs according to our usage meter. And now I am reading that I will be terminated for going over an amount when all I want to do is play on the internet like people in the city can do. It’s just not far, IMO.

Kenny Ketchum says:

Unlimited only in advertiz-ment syntax, but limite

I am a Verizon Customer and I have an aircard I shove in my desktop and laptop.

I use the local starbucks, bakehouse, java joint, etc, even the neighboring, around my office suite, unsecured wifi’s to jump online when I can, but primarily I am using the aircard and on the go,, ((Verizon is having a problem making a work order to get me a DSL line in here as they have a glitch in their program where they can’t write up a work order if the computer says there’s already service in the place, which it says it has internet service, but that was from a customer who used the wrong address, and Verizon never deleted that false entry just wrote up a new work order so now the computer confuses the addresses, and I have waited for about a year now trying to get Verizon DSL in my office//suite they can’t even give me a phone, so I use my cell and make sure I don’t go over my peak times, etc,.))

I was tethering my treo, but I wanted a new phone, and got a motoQ and an aircard figuring I can talk and work at the same time. The constant activsync tethering soft reset problem was killing me on the treo, and downtime during the day was an hour or more with all the soft resets, and reconfiging to get the tether to sync.

I have had my aircard for 10days, and I already show 3.6gigs used on the usage meter,,, Another thing that alarms me is that I started getting spammed with text messages from Verizon wireless 3rd party vendors, and didn’t realize it until I saw the stack of messages in my inbox, I deleted them and don’t know if I’ll be charged the 20cents per message or not, but I’d think this is something they can remedy.

Now all of this use was and is, not from streaming video or so called p2p sharing it was from setting up my IBM office equipment to go on the road and use this aircard for everything.

I should of used the free wifi I can find to set it all up, but the aircard was and is so fast and sweet that I got carried away. I am going to limit my amount of usage now, and make sure any extreme downloading of applications is done via the local free wifi.

The only problem is, it’s unsecure for the most part and the other thing is, most of the free hotspots have a proxy so you can’t download much if anything and it flags your IP.

I wish I could pay even up to 100$ per month and have unlimited aircard usage, at least a bare minimum of 25gigs per month. I’d never go over that, but at casual working I’ve used 3.6 in 10 days. That’s not good considering I’ve just gotten down to the details and read the fine print of my contract and it’s not unlimited.

It’s limited to 5gigs per month. They just call it unlimited, as that’s part of the marketing writeup.

It’s not unlimited, it’s limited. You have a set price for a set amount of data you can ultimately download. It doesn’t matter if it’s work related or pleasure related, 5gigs is all you get, and when you are a power user for work related things like I am, I don’t see how I’m going to be able to use the aircard relative to my employ strictly as such.

There’s got to be an alternative for business people, I just haven’t found it yet!

Verizon suckz says:

Verizon can't spell

un·lim·it·ed =
1. not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2. boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3. without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

verizon = lim·it·ed

1. confined within limits; restricted or circumscribed: a limited space; limited resources.
2. restricted with reference to governing powers by limitations prescribed in laws and in a constitution: a limited monarch.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I think they misspelled their word a tad!

angrie says:

VZW employee

Listen to yourself Moron! “And completely disclose the terms and conditions (very much so incluing what unlimited data really means).” What unlimited data really means? Are you really that much of a sheep? If it’s not unlimited don’t front like it is. Anyway the rest of you stop using verizons software, set up a manual connection without a username or password, just the dial up number #777. I play LIVE on my air card and if VZW thinks they’re going to get an early termination fee out of me they can forget it. I’ve already got a house they can shuv it.

Nancy says:

Sprint-Class action Data Card Change

For over two years I have had a contract with Sprint for an UNLIMITED wireless connection card data plan @ 59.99 per month. On June 21, 2009 I upgraded ONLY my phone plan to an unlimited plan. Without MY CONSENT or KNOWLEDGE Sprint took it upon themselves to change my UNLIMITED wireless card to a 5 GB CAP resulting in my bill totaling $800.00. When I asked them to reinstate my plan due to their error they refused and told me it was no longer available. When I asked a sprint rep had I not changed my phone plan would the data card still be unlimited they said yes. So they confirm that the plan still exists, they just refused to reinstate my UNLIMITED wireless plan. It seems highly unjust that Sprint can change my connection card data plan without my CONSENT and KNOWLEDGE. Care to start a class action law suit with me?

Cecilia Rasmussen says:

Class Action Suits against Verizon for poor aircard service?

Just wondered if you know of any class action suits against Verizon AND the results?

Or even idividual lawsuits for the same reason?

The advertising and promises of Verizon are beyond
dishonest! I know! I had an experience from hell!
In the end they said “There are too many people in your area at this time! Like it or lump it!”

Which meant just go away!


Kim Carlson says:

Verizon aircard

This is the first month I have been using mine. I have a 5000mb limit. Tomorrow it turns over to the next month…we will see what my usage was–it currently stands at just nder 4300. I’ve used it very little in the past few days, so I should have in no way gone over the limit.

So far I have had good customer service with technical questions.

They are wrong in stating if you go over the 10 gig amount… my line of work that is very easy. I teach online computer art and often have to download files that are 30 meg. I review 3D raw files as well, Photoshop images and loaded PDF files. So multiply that with 25 – 30 students plus portfolio reviews–the meg usage adds up very quickly. And certainly nothing unscrupulous as what is being insinuated. I also have to do a lot of research.

Quite frankly, having a limit is obsurd, as it harkens back to the prehistoric computer days. If there is no limit on regular DSL, why have one on an aircard….

my 2cents

Add Your Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here

Comment Options:

Make this the or (get credits or sign in to see balance) what's this?

What's this?

Techdirt community members with Techdirt Credits can spotlight a comment as either the "First Word" or "Last Word" on a particular comment thread. Credits can be purchased at the Techdirt Insider Shop »

Follow Techdirt

Techdirt Daily Newsletter

Techdirt Deals
Techdirt Insider Discord
The latest chatter on the Techdirt Insider Discord channel...