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Forget Clickthrough EULAs; Are There Really Walkby EULAs For NYC Parks?
from the please,-tell-me-this-is-a-joke dept
Boing Boing points us to something that I'm seriously hoping is a joke (please, please, please, someone tell me this is a joke/parody/Photoshop/etc.) -- involving Madison Square Park in NYC, which is supposedly now being managed by HSBC -- and thus (again, I'm hoping this is a joke) the lawyers have decided to put up giant end user license agreements (EULAs) that you supposedly agree to by entering the park:
[Photo: Rod Townsend]
Assuming this does turn out to be fake (please!), what's scary is how unsurprising it would be -- and how many people seem to immediately assume that it is, in fact, true. We're so used to such EULAs in every day life, that seeing something like this just wouldn't strike all that many people as being obviously fake.
Now, if this is actually real, then, things are even worse. It's difficult to believe (by any stretch of the imagination) that such a thing is even remotely legally enforceable. Already there are questions about the legality of "clickthrough" EULAs, and one would have to imagine that the enforceability of a "walkby" EULA is even more in doubt. So, whether or not this is true, fake or a joke... it's a rather depressing sign (literally) of the times.
Update: In the comments, Shawn points out that this is likely associated with HSBC's "Soapbox" ad campaign, which only makes it marginally less ridiculous (but no more enforceable).
[Photo: Rod Townsend]
Now, if this is actually real, then, things are even worse. It's difficult to believe (by any stretch of the imagination) that such a thing is even remotely legally enforceable. Already there are questions about the legality of "clickthrough" EULAs, and one would have to imagine that the enforceability of a "walkby" EULA is even more in doubt. So, whether or not this is true, fake or a joke... it's a rather depressing sign (literally) of the times.
Update: In the comments, Shawn points out that this is likely associated with HSBC's "Soapbox" ad campaign, which only makes it marginally less ridiculous (but no more enforceable).
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and was not intended to be an agreement for using the park.
That being said I doubt there is a much they could do to hold people to an "agreement" that is entered into like this.
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Re:
Aha! That definitely makes sense. But... still...
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"Keep off the grass" is one thing roman numerals and multiple parenthesis is a horse of a different color.
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LMAO
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Hmmmm
You're allowed to do that with a contract, right?
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It's not vandalism, it's the process of establishing an agreeable contract.
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Re:
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what about minors
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Re: what about minors
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Well, hell
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However, this "walk-by" ELUA is easily defeated by wearing a t-shirt with a counter release from ReasonableAgreement.org:
"READ CAREFULLY. By [accepting this material|accepting this payment|accepting this business-card|viewing this t-shirt|reading this sticker|allowing the wearer entry] you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer."
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sex and contracts
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ski-by eula
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What if you're illiterate?
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What if you're blind
And on that note... what if I was blinking when I walked by.
But It was probably for a commercial shot, like what was said above.
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Carry your own eula in your pocket next time
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Re: What if you're blind
etc
etc
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Corrections...
This is standard in the entertainment industry and is often seen at film shoots where you might happen to walk into the background of a shot. In this case, it looks to me like a release for using the Soapbox, meaning that it is voluntary (you're not bound by these terms unless you voluntarily walk into their booth and are filmed) and won't get paid if they use you in their commercial.
Not quite the legal outrage some would like it to be.
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Re: Corrections...
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Re: Re: Corrections...
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Re: What if you're illiterate?
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Re: Corrections...
Oh, but it's standard in the entertainment industry.
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Re:
OSHA may have other ideas.
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Getting tired of morning omelettes and getting morning paper treatment!
After an incident where taking out a shotgun resulted in an overnight stay at the local detention center, they've been looking for another effective method of crowd control. A Pepperball launcher seems to be the ticket. However, combined with a binding EULA may be a great solution and help him if in court if he gets to use his shiny new Tac700.
I saw those damned kids walking around earlier today with what looked like a carton of eggs. If anyone has a larger, photo of the EULA, please forward it along. We need to make the sign and stop these damned kids before it's too late.
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Re: Getting tired of morning omelettes and getting morning paper treatment!
I feel sorry for them, myself. They have no hope of having as rich or secure of a life as we had growing up. They are inheriting a world decimated by war, debt, increased globalization which affects one's production capability, and legalistic maneuvering.
EULAs to enter a park? But what would you expect from the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank Corp. (HSBC)
Not funny even if it is a Joke. God help them!
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EULAs need to be tested in court and hopefully thrown out
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Don't like risks
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A simple explanation
I'm willing to bet the ruling elite are sorry they ever taught the masses to read, which is why education is sliding back into the dark ages and txtspk (newspeak), is considered fine, it's all you need to be a consumer.
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Licence, Not A Contract (IANAL)
In the same way, a park licence agreement could be enforced on the basis that, if you don’t accept it and you enter the park, then you’re trespassing. End of story.
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Re: Well, hell
2. I own the priviligie to interpret this EULA in case something is unclear.
3. This is unclear.
4. I've got no responsibilities.
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Re: Don't like risks
spoken by someone who has no idea what they are talking about . . .
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Re: Licence, Not A Contract (IANAL)
> could be enforced on the basis that, if you
> don’t accept it and you enter the park, then
> you’re trespassing. End of story.
And what if you don't see the sign because you were engaged in conversation with friends as you walked passed it?
Or you don't speak English?
Or you're blind?
Or you're a minor?
Hardly the legal "end of story" you claim it is.
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Re: Corrections...
1) the consumer was not informed of the EULA (either a paper tucked/folded in the product box, or at only 3 of the 5 entrances)
2) a specific term is held unenforceable because of unconscionability or a state consumer protection law (a number of states have passed consumer protection laws that prohibit terms which require mandatory binding arbitration or waive class action lawsuits).
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Re: Signs
> says everyone is responsible for themselves
> and that whoever owns the place cant be responsible
> for injury?
Sure they do, but they're generally meaningless from a legal standpoint and are only there because most people don't know the law and don't know their rights and will be fooled into thinking they have no recourse.
It's a well-accepted principle of tort law that an individual or a business can't disclaim their own negligence through use of signage or boilerplate language printed on ticket stubs. Unless they have a separate form with the customer's signature on it, indicating full disclosure and acceptance of terms before the contract was executed, the business can't avoid responsibility for any negligence acts it commits.
Even though the signs are legally meaningless, businesses still use them because most people don't know they're legally meaningless. If a posted sign fools and deters even a quarter of the people with valid claims from pursuing legal remedies, then they're worth their weight in gold.
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I finally undersand...
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Re: Licence, Not A Contract (IANAL)
btr1701 wrote:
Makes no difference, a trespasser is still a trespasser. You still get to tell them, in no uncertain terms, to fuck off.
End of story.
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