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Texas Judge Forces Topix To Unveil Info About Anonymous Commenters
from the so-much-for-protecting-anonymity dept
While plenty of other countries don't provide very much protection to anonymous commenters online, US courts have time and time and time and time again found that it's important to protect the rights of anonymous speech online. That doesn't mean that you can say anything you want -- but it does mean that a court should be quite clearly convinced that the speech violates the law before allowing any progress in an attempt to unmask an anonymous participant.
Unfortunately, it looks like a judge in Texas has ignored all of that. Topix, the online news aggregation and local community site, has apparently been told by a judge to cough up identifying information on 178 formerly anonymous commenters on the site. The details are still a little unclear from the article linked here -- but it looks like the commenters were discussing a sexual harassment case that was happening in Texas. In that case, the defendants were found not guilty, but apparently the online comments on Topix got somewhat nasty. So the couple, fresh off being acquitted of sexual assault charges, sued 178 different anonymous commenters -- and the judge seemed to have no problem ordering Topix to turn over any identifying information it had on those commenters.
This is troubling for a variety of reasons, as it does not appear that the court spent much time in determining whether or not actual libelous statements were made -- it just ordered Topix to hand over the info. Previous courts have found that even if the commenters were being jerks and totally obnoxious, that doesn't take away their right to anonymity. So why is this judge so willing to wipe away anonymity? If there are truly libelous comments, then it could make sense to go through a careful process of trying to identify who they came from. But to give a blanket order to hand over the names seems to go against what so many other US courts have done in similar situations, and raises serious questions about the right to anonymity online.
Unfortunately, it looks like a judge in Texas has ignored all of that. Topix, the online news aggregation and local community site, has apparently been told by a judge to cough up identifying information on 178 formerly anonymous commenters on the site. The details are still a little unclear from the article linked here -- but it looks like the commenters were discussing a sexual harassment case that was happening in Texas. In that case, the defendants were found not guilty, but apparently the online comments on Topix got somewhat nasty. So the couple, fresh off being acquitted of sexual assault charges, sued 178 different anonymous commenters -- and the judge seemed to have no problem ordering Topix to turn over any identifying information it had on those commenters.
This is troubling for a variety of reasons, as it does not appear that the court spent much time in determining whether or not actual libelous statements were made -- it just ordered Topix to hand over the info. Previous courts have found that even if the commenters were being jerks and totally obnoxious, that doesn't take away their right to anonymity. So why is this judge so willing to wipe away anonymity? If there are truly libelous comments, then it could make sense to go through a careful process of trying to identify who they came from. But to give a blanket order to hand over the names seems to go against what so many other US courts have done in similar situations, and raises serious questions about the right to anonymity online.
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Reader Comments (rss)
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Soooo....
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Money grubbing lawyer
P.S. Wouldn't it be funny if all of the anonymous posters were his mom?
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Texas Courts
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Re: Soooo....
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Re: Re: Soooo....
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Re: Texas Courts
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Not all Texas....
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So what information are they in a position to hand over? If they're "very, very careful" (and even half-intelligent) they didn't collect any information beyond what can be seen on the site. But he doesn't say that, so they probably did. And they will hand it over eventually. This is another of those security lessons that people never seem to learn: don't hold on to confidential information unless you really, really have to.
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IP Address + Time = (for most cases) the ISP Account of who posted.
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Re: Texas Courts
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You give up your right to be anonymous
Want to stay anonymous? Don't post to the internet from your home or work computer.
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That's idiotic. Identifying an account holder does NOT tell you who made a post.
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Re: Texas Courts
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"That doesn't mean that you can say anything you want -- but it does mean that a court should be quite clearly convinced that the speech violates the law before allowing any progress in an attempt to unmask an anonymous participant." --Defamation, even if it happens anonymously, is still actionable. The comments alleged in the complaint are defamation. Case proven; therefore the IPs should be released.
I'm not sure why people are so up in arms about it. The judge had to follow the existing law - you know the one that says you can't libel and slander? The one that exists in EVERY state?
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Seems somewhat nasty to me.
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I don't know about every other state, but the law in Texas did not require the judge to order the revelation of all these identities. Check the law before you go shooting off your mouth.
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Subpoena First, Ask Questions Later
We lawyers need to be arguing more for the strict application of Dendrite. There is in fact a Texas appellate state court ruling that requires an affirmative showing for discovery to identify anonymous defendants, In re Does 1-10, 242 S.W.3d 805 (Tex.App.-Texarkana 2007), just as there are cases like that in California. Krinsky v. Doe 6, 159 Cal.App.4th 1154, 72 Cal. Rptr.3d 231 (Cal.App. 6 Dist. 2008). But the problem is that the plaintiff comes in asking for discovery and it is just an ex parte proceeding with nobody to point out to the judge what the governing law is. It will be interesting to learn whether the lawyer who came into court ex parte called the judge's attention to the legal requirement.
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Trolling Issue
Oh my! 0_0
What shall I do?
I've read the case..
Never posted anything to a sexual site or trolled any opinioners on a sex site, except for Connor.
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Mo der a tors
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Re: Soooo....
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Re:
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topix
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court order
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terrorists at Topix
very quiet life. I stumbled upon Topix a couple of years ago. I started posting
on a thread about food stamps where genocide for the poor was gleefully being
discussed as a serious remedy to the country's deficit. I commented with a
different view, one that doesn't involve hate, and found myself under attack in
the most vile way. I was so outraged at what I was seeing and so inexperienced
on the computer, I kept a hand written log. I was also so inexperienced on the
ways of forums, I was shocked to see the lies, manipulation and lack of any
ethics or morals. There was somebody in that forum that had Topix
administrative function. He could remove posts at any time, change posts to say
vile things then re-post them, change the "judge it's",etc. I stopped posting
to that thread but no matter where I went, this person would find me and start
with the threats defamation and in general, terrorizing me. I figured out how
to save things on my computer and started keep some of the vile posts. I have
about 137 saved.
I started posting on the "Should the US have universal health care" thread. I
found myself under attack again. A few weeks ago a troll announced
he had found my personal information and posted my husband's full name and age.
I complained to Topix. I'm not even sure if they got
the complaint. None of these posts were removed.
On the night of June 17th,
2010, I received 6 phone calls to my unlisted number in Springfield starting at
12:25am, with the last one logging in at 1:20am. I got the person to talk to
me. I ask him where he got my number and he replied that I have an unusual sir
name or unusual name several times. This is the same terminology he used in the
forum to announce his victory in finding my identity. He said he got my
information from 411. He never explained where he got my name.
On June 24th I received two more calls at 12:46am. However this time the caller
forgot to mask their number the first time and it registered on my phone. The
second call was made with in the same minute and registered "Private Name,
Private number" . I didn't answer either of these calls and didn't even noticed
they had been received until early the next morning. I called the exposed
number and the voice that answered sounded very much like the same voice from
the 17th calls. On June 25th, at about 10:00pm, I found my kitty, my little
friend, with a broken neck laid out on my sidewalk. I reversed number checked
the phone number and found it is registered to someone less than 6 blocks away.
On the night of the 26th my car was vandalized. All of this started after my personal information was exposed on Topix.
Topix is truly the most dangerous place on the net! It goes beyond mere defamation and libel. My little friend, Chloe, paid with her life. I wonder if that murderer heard my screams of anguish and grief...I'm sure he did. He will be hearing that in his dreams forever!My life has become a living hell because of these "people". EXPOSE THESE TOPIX TERRORISTS ....NOW!
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Topix
Free speech isn't about this.
I say that you should have to be identified and then say
whatever you want.
Deal with the consequences too.
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Topix Profits Fron Sladerish Gossip Posts
I am not against Topix. I like the idea of having a site to go to for local information by others in the same town. But we greatly need moderation AND I believe we need to toss out anonymous postings by anyone that types in a few letters for a make believe name, because we have a lot of people shooting off slanderous posts and hiding behind the technology that Topix has help foster, Many things could help, such as forcing all posters to register for a name/handle and demanding a working email, along with a system of removing all of the tons of posts/threads that many of us feel are in violation of many laws and need to me removed NOW.
If you are unaware of what I am speaking about, check out what is being posted in your own home town. From what I have observed, it seems the smaller the town/community, they more damage is done by posts/threads using real names and info about local residents. I do not see how many lawsuits can not be the result of the current system in place. If Topix would only make a serious effort and removing all of the offending and often not legal information about others it might change the perception of them, but they need to implement changes "yesterday" in order to stop the misery many people and their families have got by slanderous looking posts, and now we see what appears to be a leak of medical information on a political candidate for political gain, which would seem to be in direct violation of HIPAA Federal laws, and if the medical story is untrue it would seem to be SLANDER and could cost a person an election. Personally I feel things are way out of hand at this point. I would like to see Topix do the right thing and put a strong effort in at stopping so many bogus and hurtful, if not flat out not legal, postings on their site.
Topix, please do the right thing and put much more effort and cleaning up your site. I do not hate you, I feel you have done a lot of good. But ever since you started allowing just anyone to hide behind their computer and say whatever they want about the guy down the street from them in a public forum, true or false, and do not have a realistic method of allowing users to flag these posts/threads for removal, things have gone from bad to worse (imho). Please remove all of this trash which is wreck many people's lives by their own words.
Thank you, and peace.
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Please Hire More Moderators
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Registration
Topix started off a good idea and they have managed to ruin it. There are so many anti-Topix groups out there on facebook and other places and has anyone seen http://toxictopix.webs.com , pretty informative stuff
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judicial decision
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Where to send complaints about content on Topix
It may also help to send complaints about the forum to the Attorney General in the State of Washington, where Topix is based. If the AG's office receives enough complaints, it's likely they will put pressure on the company to institute an AUP, and enforce it, and develop tighter mechanisms to respond to complaints.
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Everyone commenting here needs to be introduced to 4chan
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We clean all type of black and green money
yor satisfaction is our consand thank you
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We clean Black money
yor satisfaction is our consand thank you for you time .Dr Abdou
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We clean Black money
yor satisfaction is our consand thank you for you time .Dr Abdou
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Because I'm suing high officials they block topix posts
Those items btw, were my brother's cell phones (which were found AT MY BROTHER'S HOME) which he had allegedly used to send his ex-girlfriend and her ex-husband" naked photos of herself in order to demonstrate that she had slept around with him while she was married.
This "victim" was friends of the police dept. and D.A..And she is a Hot Chic.
Even though my brother had been gone from my home for 2 years....and was living in his own home- (where the actual cell phones in question WERE found), the aforementioned defendants in my lawsuit nonetheless wanted in my home.....JUST IN CASE that maybe my brother could have hid something in my home or with me.
My misfortune of being related to a brother in a nearby town who ran afoul of a hot chic with friends in high places.
Anyway, the federal judge has ILLEGALLY ruled against me with very well plead (and PROVEN) counts, and the local newspapers and television stations will not breathe a word of my lawsuit, even though I handed them a copies.
This is a very big lawsuit with very serious (and proven) allegations against these authorities.
I cannot even scratch the surface of what they did to me (ie: seized a junk vcr recorder from my home and later claimed that it was used by my brother to secretly record this hot chic--------and get this-------they simultaneously searched my brother's "actual" home (where he actually lived) and purposely did NOT take HIS vcr recorder.
(The cops HAD to have something from my home, so that in retrospect, they could claim that they found supposed items used in alleged crimes.)
This forced me into having to file suit.
Now...........the federal judge has blatantly ruled against LAW......and the media won't breathe a word of this to the public. You can see why the judge is so eager to illegally rule against law (to protect people in high places). He knows that where there is no public knowledge, I can therefore be screwed BIG TIME!
You have no idea how angry I am.
Enter Topix forum.
Since this medium is the only way of my informing the public what is going on, I started posting details and allegations of my lawsuit on Topix Forum.
At first "someone" simply took down the posts within a few hours. But shortly afterward, they somehow have blocked ALL places local to me in town where I can use my netbook and post information about my lawsuit via public wi-fi connections.
They were not going to have even ONE person read my posts before they got around to deleting them.
Somehow, any comments I attempt to post anywhere around my town (maybe elsewhere? WILL NOT appear.......period. No matter which wi-fi location I find.
This is some corrupt shit going on here. What's most sickening about the conduct of the authorities ,is that this is all because of a hot chic that the D.A. and police must REALLY have wanted in her pants.
THAT'S reason enough to hide this lawsuit from the public, which gives a green light to the federal judge to screw me without the light of day exposing what's going on.
As to Topix, I used to thank God that I had an avenue to expose the corruption which occurred and still is occurring against me. That was very short lived.
Unfortunately for me, now the authorities have found a way to block my comments on Topix by pre-emptively blocking ANY posts I attempt to post (about ANYTHING)........through any wi fi spot around here, so that this pro se schmuck (myself) can bend over and eventually walk away with nothing....except having spent $20,000 expecting to obtain justice.....and not just for myself......for everyone......so that these clowns would never try something like this again.....against ANYONE.
This is what I've learned:
IF THE AUTHORITIES CAN BLOCK ALL MEDIA FROM REPORTING AGAINST THEMSELVES, YOU CAN REST ASSURED THAT THE FEDERAL JUDGES WILL CERTAINLY SCREW YOU...................since nobody is looking....or will be the wiser.
It was bad enough to realize that the media is complicit (for whatever favors they received in return from the aforementioned authorities). But at least in my case, even TOPIX forum cannot be relied upon.
Double Standard Anyone????????????
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