Texas Judge Forces Topix To Unveil Info About Anonymous Commenters
from the so-much-for-protecting-anonymity dept
While plenty of other countries don’t provide very much protection to anonymous commenters online, US courts have time and time and time and time again found that it’s important to protect the rights of anonymous speech online. That doesn’t mean that you can say anything you want — but it does mean that a court should be quite clearly convinced that the speech violates the law before allowing any progress in an attempt to unmask an anonymous participant.
Unfortunately, it looks like a judge in Texas has ignored all of that. Topix, the online news aggregation and local community site, has apparently been told by a judge to cough up identifying information on 178 formerly anonymous commenters on the site. The details are still a little unclear from the article linked here — but it looks like the commenters were discussing a sexual harassment case that was happening in Texas. In that case, the defendants were found not guilty, but apparently the online comments on Topix got somewhat nasty. So the couple, fresh off being acquitted of sexual assault charges, sued 178 different anonymous commenters — and the judge seemed to have no problem ordering Topix to turn over any identifying information it had on those commenters.
This is troubling for a variety of reasons, as it does not appear that the court spent much time in determining whether or not actual libelous statements were made — it just ordered Topix to hand over the info. Previous courts have found that even if the commenters were being jerks and totally obnoxious, that doesn’t take away their right to anonymity. So why is this judge so willing to wipe away anonymity? If there are truly libelous comments, then it could make sense to go through a careful process of trying to identify who they came from. But to give a blanket order to hand over the names seems to go against what so many other US courts have done in similar situations, and raises serious questions about the right to anonymity online.
Filed Under: anonymity, comments, libel, texas
Companies: topix
Comments on “Texas Judge Forces Topix To Unveil Info About Anonymous Commenters”
Soooo....
I libel the shit out of people on Topix all the time… are my uppins finally coming?
Re: Soooo....
Nobody should say anything bad here about the idiot judge.
Re: Re: Soooo....
Nothing that isn’t true anyway.
Re: Soooo....
Is this right to anonymity based on legislations, or on constitutional interpretations? If it’s the former, the anonymity right can be diluted, if not overturned, by new laws to fine-tune it.
Money grubbing lawyer
What about the Anonymous Cowards that went back after the acquittal and retracted their previous comments? What about those that defended him? It wouldn’t matter to this guy he is a lawyer in a money grab. He’s gotta get some cash to pay for the civil suit he is going to lose.
P.S. Wouldn’t it be funny if all of the anonymous posters were his mom?
Can’t the defense just point to precedent and move up the appeal chain, ultimately getting the whole mess dismissed?
Texas Courts
Texas courts dance to the beat of their own drummer, until they’re knocked down by a higher court, and then they move glacially slow. Apparently, Texas, in general, doesn’t seem to think it has to abide by the laws of the rest of the land.
Re: Texas Courts
Yeah, I have to agree, and I live in south texas, but this judge seems like a total fucked up retard. I would defend myself and waste a bunch of the sexual harassers money. It is amazing how fast people back down when they start to see their legal bills rise because of a rash of faxes (until the machine runs out of paper) to their attorney, every night of the week. It worked in the past and I bet the attorneys love it when they can bill for such foolishness
Re: Texas Courts
Well, that certainly explains the willingness of Bush, Rove et al to violate so many national and international laws and Conventions, doesn’t it?
Re: Texas Courts
Down here in Texas we don’t put up with that anonymous internet crap like you folks in other places do. You wanna go gettin uppity or shootin off yer mouth round here you gonna pay the price. Not like in California where they gots queers an all that other shit. Nope, down here in Texas we gots righteous judges.
only in texas
That judge can kiss my (*&^
Not all Texas....
@dkp…no, NOT only in texas. Stupid crap like this happens everywhere. Although I really wasn’t that surprised when I saw that it was an article in the dallas morning news, and that it was from Fort Worth. I live in Fort Worth and I have to say that this city has some pretty bad judges. We have really good ones too. The only reason this guy sued the 178 people is because they had their feelings hurt and when a lawyer gets his/her feelings hurt they sue people. Even if it’s for a retarded reason.
“We do not just give up people’s privacy,” said the Web site’s CEO Chris Tolles. “We’re very, very careful about that.”
So what information are they in a position to hand over? If they’re “very, very careful” (and even half-intelligent) they didn’t collect any information beyond what can be seen on the site. But he doesn’t say that, so they probably did. And they will hand it over eventually. This is another of those security lessons that people never seem to learn: don’t hold on to confidential information unless you really, really have to.
Re: Re:
What Info ?
IP Address + Time = (for most cases) the ISP Account of who posted.
Re: Re: Re:
IP Address + Time = (for most cases) the ISP Account of who posted.
That’s idiotic. Identifying an account holder does NOT tell you who made a post.
The comments were a lot more than “somewhat nasty.” Judge for yourself; read the plaintiff’s complaint at http://www.connordemond.com/LESHER-OMEGA_PETITION.pdf.
Re: Re:
Who cares what anon said. This is just a big money grab, and they shouldn’t be able to sue everyone because of comments on an ongoing news story.
Re: Re: Re:
I wish some people could read. They did not sue “everyone”. They sued for the names and information for 178 usernames. Read the complaint.
“That doesn’t mean that you can say anything you want — but it does mean that a court should be quite clearly convinced that the speech violates the law before allowing any progress in an attempt to unmask an anonymous participant.” –Defamation, even if it happens anonymously, is still actionable. The comments alleged in the complaint are defamation. Case proven; therefore the IPs should be released.
I’m not sure why people are so up in arms about it. The judge had to follow the existing law – you know the one that says you can’t libel and slander? The one that exists in EVERY state?
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I’m not sure why people are so up in arms about it. The judge had to follow the existing law – you know the one that says you can’t libel and slander? The one that exists in EVERY state?
I don’t know about every other state, but the law in Texas did not require the judge to order the revelation of all these identities. Check the law before you go shooting off your mouth.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I agree, if people want to slander other people on Topix. They should have to put their REAL name on the post. I have a similar problem in Missouri. I had a husband and wife come to my work and ask to speak with my boss and find out if I had wrote this stuff on topix using the company’s computer. They are just trying to find out who wrote it, but is wasn’t me. She has slandered my family. And she refuse’s to stop telling others that she knows I wrote it, while the real people who wrote it or getting a free laugh on me…
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Well first of all if it is written, its libel, not slander. Second of all, people need to realize it’s not libel/slander IF IT’S TRUE. Third of all, sorry the whole point of topix is to post anonymously.
Re: Re:
The comments were a lot more than “somewhat nasty.” Judge for yourself;
Seems somewhat nasty to me.
You give up your right to be anonymous
When you go post on a public web site.
Want to stay anonymous? Don’t post to the internet from your home or work computer.
Texas, are you going to give them all the death penalty too? Sounds like the judge is power-tripping.
Subpoena First, Ask Questions Later
One of the virtues of the very earliest of the major rulings on the standards for Internet anonymity — the Dendrite case in New Jersey — is that the judge requires a showing of merit BEFORE any discovery was allowed. Unfortunately, in most jurisdictions the tendency is not to think about anonymity at the outset but to allow the lawyers to serve subpoenas and then consider anonymity only if there is an objection to the subpoena.
We lawyers need to be arguing more for the strict application of Dendrite. There is in fact a Texas appellate state court ruling that requires an affirmative showing for discovery to identify anonymous defendants, In re Does 1-10, 242 S.W.3d 805 (Tex.App.-Texarkana 2007), just as there are cases like that in California. Krinsky v. Doe 6, 159 Cal.App.4th 1154, 72 Cal. Rptr.3d 231 (Cal.App. 6 Dist. 2008). But the problem is that the plaintiff comes in asking for discovery and it is just an ex parte proceeding with nobody to point out to the judge what the governing law is. It will be interesting to learn whether the lawyer who came into court ex parte called the judge’s attention to the legal requirement.
Trolling Issue
They want 178 trolls?
Oh my! 0_0
What shall I do?
I’ve read the case..
Never posted anything to a sexual site or trolled any opinioners on a sex site, except for Connor.
Mo der a tors
Moderators on Topix delete the Hell out of a lot of non-libelous messages on a regular basis. At least that is my experience in Valdosta, GA. There is too much subjectivity by the Valdosta moderator who acts on a whim to treat commentators differently.
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I would comment about this, but I want to remain annonymous…
This is exactly what I am experiencing at the moment. Someone has made a comment with serious allegations against me under our published article. I was in shock and can’t get my head around why Topix allows people to comment as ammoniums person. But more surprises were in story where trying to contact Topix several time and was faced with total ignorance from their site. They never responded back. Having left with no option I got my lawyer who is currently taking legal action against Topix.com and will make sure that my story and story of other people are publicly exposed. Their main concern is to have more visitors reading their articles and having fun attacking anyone rather than protecting those who supplied those articles. And allowing people to hide under ID and get your client’s name and reputation polluted, it’s not a wise way to continuing doing business. It’s time now to expose Topix. com in the same way as other people like me have been exposed and suffered demages due to luck of their brains. So it’s time for action, at list for me.
Ive been talked about on topix and its a horrible site that should be chut down. its all gossip and lies and people butting in on things they know nothing about.
Ive been talked about on topix and its a horrible site that should be chut down. its all gossip and lies and people butting in on things they know nothing about.
I would comment about this, but I want to remain annonymous…
topix
yes i think was the best thing to do i wished they would remove the whole site .the site has done nothing but cause trouble in peoples lives my 4 year old nephews name was brought up in a post once over who his father was and how he was a bastard child etc etc this site sucks very much it just a big gossip place ,the hardly post news reports anymore .this is my personal thought u prolly have one different i hope this couple gets something done about cause they deserve it…
court order
Names from Topix, curious as to what names on a message board the judge would order Topix to give up. Would there have to be clear evidence of the poster breaking the law? (slander, defamation, harrassment, stalking, etc.?) Plus after the names are given up, a lawyer would have to trace down the posters, right? This takes time. Would Topix give up ALL THE IP ADDRESSES or only those in violation of the law?
I have a lawsuit I.ve been working on since last year.My son was put out like he was a rapist when he was just 13 years old. the people who did it thought they would play a dirty joke and have it erased. I had a state police officer come to my house and look at it. After he confirmed it was alie we saved it on my hard drive. This has caused my son alot of dammages. I had a jude look at it, and he agreed to go forth on it. In a few weeks we will file the complaint with topix since we know the users now.It cost my father in law a few grand to obtain the information, but now the lawyer in my family out in california is doing the case for free. I’m suinf the few who destroyed my son and topix for letting it happen. I will personally hand each person who wrote on my son the papers to appear in court and let them show the proof that my 13 year old raped someone. They think it all went away NOT!I dont take things like this lightly when it comes to my child and no one should.These citizens are still out there making lies up about everyone on topix.Hiding behind proxy servers will not keep you from being traced. Personally i can’t wait to see the people that did this.I have been under a gag order for a few months, but after reading this article I had to speak out. If your going to make up lies you better be ready to face a huge lawsuit.
I have a lawsuit I.ve been working on since last year.My son was put out like he was a rapist when he was just 13 years old. the people who did it thought they would play a dirty joke and have it erased. I had a state police officer come to my house and look at it. After he confirmed it was alie we saved it on my hard drive. This has caused my son alot of dammages. I had a jude look at it, and he agreed to go forth on it. In a few weeks we will file the complaint with topix since we know the users now.It cost my father in law a few grand to obtain the information, but now the lawyer in my family out in california is doing the case for free. I’m suinf the few who destroyed my son and topix for letting it happen. I will personally hand each person who wrote on my son the papers to appear in court and let them show the proof that my 13 year old raped someone. They think it all went away NOT!I dont take things like this lightly when it comes to my child and no one should.These citizens are still out there making lies up about everyone on topix.Hiding behind proxy servers will not keep you from being traced. Personally i can’t wait to see the people that did this.I have been under a gag order for a few months, but after reading this article I had to speak out. If your going to make up lies you better be ready to face a huge lawsuit.
terrorists at Topix
I’m 60 years old and live in a 55 and older, gated mobile home park. I live a
very quiet life. I stumbled upon Topix a couple of years ago. I started posting
on a thread about food stamps where genocide for the poor was gleefully being
discussed as a serious remedy to the country’s deficit. I commented with a
different view, one that doesn’t involve hate, and found myself under attack in
the most vile way. I was so outraged at what I was seeing and so inexperienced
on the computer, I kept a hand written log. I was also so inexperienced on the
ways of forums, I was shocked to see the lies, manipulation and lack of any
ethics or morals. There was somebody in that forum that had Topix
administrative function. He could remove posts at any time, change posts to say
vile things then re-post them, change the “judge it’s”,etc. I stopped posting
to that thread but no matter where I went, this person would find me and start
with the threats defamation and in general, terrorizing me. I figured out how
to save things on my computer and started keep some of the vile posts. I have
about 137 saved.
I started posting on the “Should the US have universal health care” thread. I
found myself under attack again. A few weeks ago a troll announced
he had found my personal information and posted my husband’s full name and age.
I complained to Topix. I’m not even sure if they got
the complaint. None of these posts were removed.
On the night of June 17th,
2010, I received 6 phone calls to my unlisted number in Springfield starting at
12:25am, with the last one logging in at 1:20am. I got the person to talk to
me. I ask him where he got my number and he replied that I have an unusual sir
name or unusual name several times. This is the same terminology he used in the
forum to announce his victory in finding my identity. He said he got my
information from 411. He never explained where he got my name.
On June 24th I received two more calls at 12:46am. However this time the caller
forgot to mask their number the first time and it registered on my phone. The
second call was made with in the same minute and registered “Private Name,
Private number” . I didn’t answer either of these calls and didn’t even noticed
they had been received until early the next morning. I called the exposed
number and the voice that answered sounded very much like the same voice from
the 17th calls. On June 25th, at about 10:00pm, I found my kitty, my little
friend, with a broken neck laid out on my sidewalk. I reversed number checked
the phone number and found it is registered to someone less than 6 blocks away.
On the night of the 26th my car was vandalized. All of this started after my personal information was exposed on Topix.
Topix is truly the most dangerous place on the net! It goes beyond mere defamation and libel. My little friend, Chloe, paid with her life. I wonder if that murderer heard my screams of anguish and grief…I’m sure he did. He will be hearing that in his dreams forever!My life has become a living hell because of these “people”. EXPOSE THESE TOPIX TERRORISTS ….NOW!
Topix
People should be able to say what they want, they just shouldn’t be allowed to hide behind a computer to do it.
Free speech isn’t about this.
I say that you should have to be identified and then say
whatever you want.
Deal with the consequences too.
Topix Profits Fron Sladerish Gossip Posts
Ok folks, maybe not everyone here has witnessed all of the non legal abuse I have on Topix over the year of 2010. People get on there and slander people by real name, location, address etc with stories that may or may not be true. In my home town of Morehead Kentucky we have a Sheriff race that suddenly has a thread dedicated to the so call medical condition of our sitting Sheriff – http://www.topix.com/forum/city/morehead-ky/THQN0GBKCRL5VD38O — Come on folks, is this not an obvious violation of HIPAA law or Slanderous? It’s a typical example of how we need to get Topix as a company to help stop postings that directly harm others and are often non legal under Federal and/or State and local laws. Topix makes it extremely difficult to leave a abuse complaints in feedback, as they make it almost impossible to give them their required “permalink” information, which is a fancy way of making a URL, so their very own current help information about how to submit a complaint on a post/thread is wrong and or very outdated. If they are making money on gossip in most small towns, then should they not be accountable to the law and at least do much more so the users can turn in the ones posting people’s own personal medical information and/or slandering their name for every reason and motive in the world? Many threads need to be removed, but they make it almost impossible to turn in an obvious non legal post. At this rate, and the fact they freely admit they are making a lot of money on this small town gossip, I fear pressure has to be applied to them to do the right think and REMOVE all posts/threads in violation ASP, and not two weeks after the damage is done, but now!
I am not against Topix. I like the idea of having a site to go to for local information by others in the same town. But we greatly need moderation AND I believe we need to toss out anonymous postings by anyone that types in a few letters for a make believe name, because we have a lot of people shooting off slanderous posts and hiding behind the technology that Topix has help foster, Many things could help, such as forcing all posters to register for a name/handle and demanding a working email, along with a system of removing all of the tons of posts/threads that many of us feel are in violation of many laws and need to me removed NOW.
If you are unaware of what I am speaking about, check out what is being posted in your own home town. From what I have observed, it seems the smaller the town/community, they more damage is done by posts/threads using real names and info about local residents. I do not see how many lawsuits can not be the result of the current system in place. If Topix would only make a serious effort and removing all of the offending and often not legal information about others it might change the perception of them, but they need to implement changes “yesterday” in order to stop the misery many people and their families have got by slanderous looking posts, and now we see what appears to be a leak of medical information on a political candidate for political gain, which would seem to be in direct violation of HIPAA Federal laws, and if the medical story is untrue it would seem to be SLANDER and could cost a person an election. Personally I feel things are way out of hand at this point. I would like to see Topix do the right thing and put a strong effort in at stopping so many bogus and hurtful, if not flat out not legal, postings on their site.
Topix, please do the right thing and put much more effort and cleaning up your site. I do not hate you, I feel you have done a lot of good. But ever since you started allowing just anyone to hide behind their computer and say whatever they want about the guy down the street from them in a public forum, true or false, and do not have a realistic method of allowing users to flag these posts/threads for removal, things have gone from bad to worse (imho). Please remove all of this trash which is wreck many people’s lives by their own words.
Thank you, and peace.
Please Hire More Moderators
Hey, I just wanted to put my name in the hat for new moderators in case Topix wishes to hire more, and believe me you need more! I offer my services, as I worked as a community forum mod of a large site for years, have the time, but would not do it for free. If interested please email me. at the above email OR at my public email addy: Kentucky@inbox.com (please no inbreed jokes) 🙂
This is good to protect freedom of speech rights. Just as long as they take care of it in a responsible way and make sure there is some kind of management.
Registration
To me all Topix would need to do is require registration with a valid email address, moderate the forums, and get rid of some of the forums that aren’t used that often (smaller towns mostly that have little news to report) and ones like the human sexuality one and you have a much better site. Because of their business model the majority of people who now post there are the internet trolls. It might make them money but the reputation of Topix has been destroyed and it makes the Tribune, McClatchy, and Gannet newspaper companies look really bad especially since most papers not affliated with them are leaving in droves.
Topix started off a good idea and they have managed to ruin it. There are so many anti-Topix groups out there on facebook and other places and has anyone seen http://toxictopix.webs.com , pretty informative stuff
judicial decision
Own your opinions.
Where to send complaints about content on Topix
Most ISPs have an Acceptable Use Policy that prohibits speech that incites hatred, racism, etc. Topix has no such thing but their ISP, SVCOLO, has an AUP and all use of the SVCOLO’s network is subject to that Policy. That includes Topix and all end users who post to the site. Since Topix.com resides on one of SVCOLO’s IP addresses, all complaints about Topix posts should be sent to: abuse-support@SVCOLO.com.
It may also help to send complaints about the forum to the Attorney General in the State of Washington, where Topix is based. If the AG’s office receives enough complaints, it’s likely they will put pressure on the company to institute an AUP, and enforce it, and develop tighter mechanisms to respond to complaints.
Everyone commenting here needs to be introduced to 4chan
So they can experience the REAL worst place on the internet.
Because I'm suing high officials they block topix posts
I am plaintiff in a civil lawsuit against a district attorney, a police dept, and an individual for purposely (KNOWINGLY) fabricating a search warrant to bust down my home’s door to conduct a witch hunt……(supposedly looking for items of my brother’s who had’nt lived with me for 2 years.
Those items btw, were my brother’s cell phones (which were found AT MY BROTHER’S HOME) which he had allegedly used to send his ex-girlfriend and her ex-husband” naked photos of herself in order to demonstrate that she had slept around with him while she was married.
This “victim” was friends of the police dept. and D.A..And she is a Hot Chic.
Even though my brother had been gone from my home for 2 years….and was living in his own home- (where the actual cell phones in question WERE found), the aforementioned defendants in my lawsuit nonetheless wanted in my home…..JUST IN CASE that maybe my brother could have hid something in my home or with me.
My misfortune of being related to a brother in a nearby town who ran afoul of a hot chic with friends in high places.
Anyway, the federal judge has ILLEGALLY ruled against me with very well plead (and PROVEN) counts, and the local newspapers and television stations will not breathe a word of my lawsuit, even though I handed them a copies.
This is a very big lawsuit with very serious (and proven) allegations against these authorities.
I cannot even scratch the surface of what they did to me (ie: seized a junk vcr recorder from my home and later claimed that it was used by my brother to secretly record this hot chic——–and get this——-they simultaneously searched my brother’s “actual” home (where he actually lived) and purposely did NOT take HIS vcr recorder.
(The cops HAD to have something from my home, so that in retrospect, they could claim that they found supposed items used in alleged crimes.)
This forced me into having to file suit.
Now………..the federal judge has blatantly ruled against LAW……and the media won’t breathe a word of this to the public. You can see why the judge is so eager to illegally rule against law (to protect people in high places). He knows that where there is no public knowledge, I can therefore be screwed BIG TIME!
You have no idea how angry I am.
Enter Topix forum.
Since this medium is the only way of my informing the public what is going on, I started posting details and allegations of my lawsuit on Topix Forum.
At first “someone” simply took down the posts within a few hours. But shortly afterward, they somehow have blocked ALL places local to me in town where I can use my netbook and post information about my lawsuit via public wi-fi connections.
They were not going to have even ONE person read my posts before they got around to deleting them.
Somehow, any comments I attempt to post anywhere around my town (maybe elsewhere? WILL NOT appear…….period. No matter which wi-fi location I find.
This is some corrupt shit going on here. What’s most sickening about the conduct of the authorities ,is that this is all because of a hot chic that the D.A. and police must REALLY have wanted in her pants.
THAT’S reason enough to hide this lawsuit from the public, which gives a green light to the federal judge to screw me without the light of day exposing what’s going on.
As to Topix, I used to thank God that I had an avenue to expose the corruption which occurred and still is occurring against me. That was very short lived.
Unfortunately for me, now the authorities have found a way to block my comments on Topix by pre-emptively blocking ANY posts I attempt to post (about ANYTHING)……..through any wi fi spot around here, so that this pro se schmuck (myself) can bend over and eventually walk away with nothing….except having spent $20,000 expecting to obtain justice…..and not just for myself……for everyone……so that these clowns would never try something like this again…..against ANYONE.
This is what I’ve learned:
IF THE AUTHORITIES CAN BLOCK ALL MEDIA FROM REPORTING AGAINST THEMSELVES, YOU CAN REST ASSURED THAT THE FEDERAL JUDGES WILL CERTAINLY SCREW YOU……………….since nobody is looking….or will be the wiser.
It was bad enough to realize that the media is complicit (for whatever favors they received in return from the aforementioned authorities). But at least in my case, even TOPIX forum cannot be relied upon.
Double Standard Anyone????????????
Re:
I was attacked pretty bad in topix while I was going thru chemo and radiation. I just cant believe how people can be so mean and just not care about ruining others people reputation with bunch of lies just to make a conversation. Thank god I survived. But the worst part is that the person that started that post was at that time a deputy sherriff!!!!
Topix Victim
I totally agree with “TOPIX VICTIM”, no one should be allowed to get on any site and lie about anyone. The government is doing so much to expose bullying, I thought. But nothing is being done about TOPIX bullying, lying, defaming, libeling from the government. Usually the victim has to pay thousands of dollars to get these lies and defamations investigated and sometimes to no avail. STOP THE BULLYING U.S. government. Make some new laws beyond the law you passed in 1996.
Topix Profits Fron Sladerish Gossip Posts
Agree with you 100%. TOPIX…stop the BULLYING, THE LIBEL, THE DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER, THE SLANDER, ETC. I think some lawyer could make a lot of money by just specializing in TOPIX defamation and slander. Thank you posters that agree with me and I hope to see many more posts encouraging the public to take action to STOP THE BULLYING AND HATE crimes that TOPIX allows.
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