NSO Fires Back At Facebook, Says It's Not Responsible For Malware Deployments By Foreign Governments

from the fair-point-but-doesn't-really-make-NSO-Group-look-any-better dept

NSO Group has finally decided to engage in the lawsuit Facebook filed against it late last year. The Israeli surveillance tech company has shown itself to be pretty cavalier about its market expansion plans. Despite being located in a country surrounded by unfriendly governments, NSO is more than willing to give Israel's enemies something to use against it. Its client list includes Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and Kazakhstan.

Facebook's lawsuit is questionable and if it wins, it would cause a lot of damage. Facebook is unhappy NSO software uses WhatsApp to deliver malware payloads to targets. But seeking precedent that would criminalize terms of service violations isn't going to help anyone, much less stop NSO from using encrypted messaging apps as attack vectors.

NSO is now firing back. And it makes a point that's true, if not all that sympathetic. It is not its customers. Much like the gun dealer who sells the gun eventually used in a mass shooting, NSO's sales of malware to governments that use them in questionable ways isn't really NSO's fault. It may have provided the surveillance tech, but it is not telling governments who to target or participating in the surveillance directly.

In its first substantive legal filing in the case, filed last week, NSO hit back at WhatsApp and its parent company, Facebook, which it said were seen by governments as “safe spaces for terrorists and other criminals” who – without NSO’s services – could operate “without fear of detection by law enforcement”.

NSO Group also argued that WhatsApp had “conflated” NSO Group’s actions with the actions of NSO’s “sovereign customers”. While NSO Group licenses its signature spying technology, Pegasus, to government law enforcement and intelligence agencies and assists with “training, setup, and installation”, it said it did not operate the technology.

This is NSO arguing it cannot be held responsible for the actions of others. If Facebook doesn't like what these governments are doing with NSO's tech, it's welcome to sue those governments directly. Not that those lawsuits would succeed. We're not the only nation that extends sovereign immunity to government agencies. That's standard operating procedure around the world. This is what NSO is hoping will convince the court to toss the suit.

“For that reason,” the company said in the filing, “permitting this litigation to proceed would infringe critical national security and foreign policy concerns of sovereign governments”.

NSO is also fighting back with a little dirt of its own. Long before it was sued by Facebook, it spent a little time discussing its spyware with the company.

In October 2017, NSO was approached by two Facebook representatives who asked to purchase the right to use certain capabilities of Pegasus, the same NSO software discussed in Plaintiffs' Complaint.

The Facebook representatives stated that Facebook was concerned that its method for gathering user data through Onavo Protect was less effective on Apple devices than on Android devices. The Facebook representatives also stated that Facebook wanted to use purported capabilities of Pegasus to monitor users on Apple devices and were willing to pay for the ability to monitor Onavo Protect users. Facebook proposed to pay NSO a monthly fee for each Onavo Protect user.

Onavo was Facebook's VPN -- one that had little to do with offering privacy to its users. It may have shielded them from others attempting to take a look at their web traffic, but it didn't do anything to prevent Facebook from collecting tons of data on users, which included a whole lot of minors. It was booted from Apple's App Store in 2018 for hoovering up too much sensitive data. Roughly six months later, Facebook killed the faux VPN for good.

Facebook claims this is an "inaccurate" portrayal of its meeting with NSO, but it's not like Facebook has much credibility on the privacy front. Its thirst for data has been unquenchable and its mitigation attempts have been provoked by Congressional inquiries and years of work by privacy activists. It hasn't suddenly become altruistic.

Facebook is right to be concerned about the use of WhatsApp to spread malware. But this lawsuit that attempts to use the already badly-abused CFAA to cover things Facebook doesn't like other people doing is going to cause collateral damage to researchers and journalists, rather than prevent NSO from selling WhatsApp-exploiting malware to government agencies.

Filed Under: cfaa, governments, hacking, liability, malware, privacy
Companies: facebook, nso, whatsapp


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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 4:17am

    If NSO is claiming to be israeli with it's control servers and employees inside israel I would agree it has no ability to control the cyber terrorism problem.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 4:38am

    I think in hinges on whether the software has legitimate non-illegal uses. You can sell a bobby pin that someone could use to pick a lock. But you can't sell a lockpick.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 4:52am

      Re:

      What country do you live in?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 9 Apr 2020 @ 5:00am

      Re:

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 6:22am

        Re: Re:

        In most places, I can legally sell lockpicks at random to the general public. That does not, by the way, apply to everywhere that an Amazon order might ship.

        What I can't do in most places is to sell a lockpick when some guy walks into my store and says "I need a lockpick, which I intend to use to to burgle PaulT's house". I also can't give that guy pointers on how to use the pick specifically on the type of lock you have, nor can I customize the lockpick to make it specifically useful for his burglarious project.

        In fact, probably 99 percent of lockpicks are sold to legitimate locksmiths, legitimate hobbyists, or at most people legitimately trying to open their own locks on their own property. It turns out that lockpicks are rarely actually very useful for burglaries; it's faster, easier, and often less conspicuous, to get around the locks some other way, especially if you don't care about damaging things.

        NSO, on the other hand, deliberately develops relationships with specific governments that it knows to be bad actors. NSO knows that its products are predominantly used by bad actors. NSO intentionally tailors its products to use by those bad actors, often with quite detailed knowledge of exactly how those products will be abused.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 9:15am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Except those "bad actors" are states, and states have sovereign immunity.

          PS: Know there are exceptions/limitations to the immunity but that is generally when those actions involve states acting as business (state owned corporations).

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 9:33am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            First of all, I'm talking about whether NSO is legitimate, not about whether it's lawful. There is a huge difference, especially when you're talking about international issues.

            Second, even in law, states don't necessarily have absolute immunity in the courts of other states, whether they're acting as businesses or not. That's especially true when their activities target the citizens or residents of the other states, while those citizens are in the other states' territory. Some of the hacks NSO is knowingly and intentionally enabling could be considered acts of war, let alone not being immune from civil suits.

            The US in particular doesn't hand out that kind of immunity to other states for actions affecting US soil or US persons.

            The kind of absolute immunity you suggest would mean that if some sovereign state decided it didn't like NSO, and sent people to firebomb NSO's office, the courts in Israel shouldn't have anything to say about it.

            Third, regardless of who its customers are or what immunities they may have, NSO is not a state, and is not immune for its contributions to criminal conspiracies, especially not when NSO makes almost all of its contributions to those conspiracies in Israel.

            From a legal point of view, what Israel should do to NSO is to regulate it as an arms dealer and its products as munitions... which would result in NSO being shut down because it could never get licenses to export to the scumbags it courts as customers.

            What the US should do to NSO is to treat it as a conspiracy to violate whichever US laws it actually happens to be violating, or at least a conspiracy to commit various torts interfering with Facebook's and others' businesses. The CFAA seems like a stretch, but tortious interference or whatever seems completely reasonable.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 7:47am

        Re: Re:

        Heh, might want a more recent link. It now points to a bunch of screwdriver sets...

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      • identicon
        ROGS, 12 Apr 2020 @ 11:44am

        Re: Re:yeah, but its subject to laws

        PaulT, you are correct: these can be sold. But they are also potentially monitored purchases.

        In the US, only "professional locksmiths" are allowed to legally purchase these.

        That means that retired cops, who decide to become house-breakers and gang stalkers use these items to harass their targets, and they can legally purchase them because they have the correct certification.

        Convicted criminals (and the list of what constitutes criminality have been expanding exponentially since 1993) cannot become locksmiths or legally purchase these items.

        That said: am I the only one who cannot post links to the jammer-store.com, where anyone who is worried about hidden cameras can purchase industry grade counter-surveillance wifi and CCTV jammers?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 9 Apr 2020 @ 5:04am

      you can't sell a lockpick

      The multiple lock pick sets available for purchase on Amazon right now say otherwise.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Michael, 9 Apr 2020 @ 5:21am

      Re:

      Also, lock-picks have legitimate legal uses..and so does surveillance software.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        PaulT (profile), 9 Apr 2020 @ 5:53am

        Re: Re:

        Yep, as much as I dislike the software, there's no differentiation. The lockpick doesn't care if you're burgling the place or letting the legal owner back into their home.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 6:28am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Again, NSO operates in a high-touch model. NSO knows who its customers are. NSO knows, at least in general terms, what those customers are using the software to do. NSO also provides consulting and customization services.

          You can't buy NSO's software without at least talking to their salespeople. It's not an impersonal retail transaction, and NSO is simply lying if it claims it doesn't know how the software is likely to be used.

          ... and, unlike a lockpick, there is no remotely legitimate way to use software specifically customized to hack Facebook. I can use a lockpick on my own lock. I can't use a Facebook hacking program on "my own Facebook".

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 8:36am

          Re: Re: Re:

          This same argument can be applied to firearms.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 3:56pm

      Re:

      OK, I was wrong. The statute I was thinking of criminalizes possession of such things, but if there's intent to burglarize.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 5:23am

    "Facebook is unhappy NSO software uses WhatsApp to deliver malware payloads to targets."

    So what are they going to do about it .. other than complain.
    One would think that FB is in control of the servers being used to push said malware, perhaps there is a way to scan input from users for such malware and then act appropriately - Nah, can't do that!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 5:48am

      Re:

      You might look at the various stories on this blog describing the futile nature of content moderation at scale.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 6:08am

        Re: Re:

        Is viral scanning of submitted input considered to be moderation?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 6:21am

          Re: Re: Re:

          It is basically the same problem, scan for content that is not wanted, and runs into the same accuracy and scale problems.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 6:26am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            I had not heard of this problem associated with viral scanning other than the occasional email that gets tossed into the junk folder.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 9:18am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Scanning does not work.

              When malware is new, it's not in the databases. The only way to detect it is to look for broad characteristics like "contains executable code", which will catch way too many legitimate things.

              Even after it is in the database, sometimes the signature will trigger on things other than the actual malware, and furthermore it's usually easy to tweak the malware to evade the signature.

              Google scans the hell out of the Play Store, yet it's full of malware.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 11:15am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Yes, and yet IT departments across the globe continue to insist upon its use.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 10 Apr 2020 @ 12:08am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  If you find something objectionable or pointless that an IT department is doing, chances are that its management, insurance or some other external source that's insisting on its use, not the IT department itself.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Pixelation, 9 Apr 2020 @ 7:35am

    Shocking

    One purveyor of malware angry at another purveyor of malware.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2020 @ 12:19pm

    Weapon Maker Ethics

    Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
    That's not my department" say Wernher von Braun…

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    ROGS, 10 Apr 2020 @ 12:01pm

    sure, no one is "targeted"

    Yeah, thanks for that great assessment of "who it is that targets individuals" and "who is targeting individuals," and especially, " what kind of technology targets individuals," and "what happens in gang stalking".

    I cannot imagine why people around the world hate zionists, and their IDF derived security firms: Despite being located in a country surrounded by unfriendly governments these fuckers are on all sides of the dialectic,targeting and killing people.

    In a sane world, one would think this is important, but, nah. Even speaking about it, you get accused of

    Antishenitiscistclismaticisms!

    They picked up where the Nazi's left off, and they will not stop until the next Hiroshima. These people whoever they are are truly what psycopathology is.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 10 Apr 2020 @ 12:19pm

      Re: sure, no one is "targeted"

      I'm sure that made sense in your head.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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        identicon
        ROGS, 11 Apr 2020 @ 8:25am

        Thanks for that. We all need your view from the head up your own ass seats.

        Racist much?

        And its just insane that you would would deny that activists in my country are not being tracked, stalked, and killed, due to the WOT mission creep into the domestic spaces.

        You are either a sadist, and asshole, or an agency affiliated troll to deny this.

        A short list of men who died after claiming they were targeted by mysterious stalkers and under mysterious circumstances who they said appeared to be police and/or security personnel:

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 11 Apr 2020 @ 10:51am

          Re:

          Hey, you found the reply link so people know who your bullshit reply is aimed at! Well done! Keep it up.

          "And its just insane that you would would deny that activists in my country are not being tracked, stalked, and killed, due to the WOT mission creep into the domestic spaces."

          I didn't say they weren't. I said your comment, as written, didn't make sense to sane people.

          "A short list of men who died after claiming they were targeted by mysterious stalkers and under mysterious circumstances who they said appeared to be police and/or security personnel:"

          I could make a list of people who claimed they heard the voice of Satan before later committing suicide. That doesn't make that ol' scratch actually materialised to end their lives.

          But, I'd be more willing to believe that those people were actually killed by the men in black than believe that your insane ass was ever a considered target. You have to earn credibility in your claims, and you've only earned mockery so far.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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            identicon
            ROGS, 11 Apr 2020 @ 3:12pm

            Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

            You are hallucinating the devil now? Listen: can you please stop stalking my posts? From here out, I will continue to talk around you. This will be the last time I respond to you directly.

            Look, your racism and disdain for Fergusons dead black activists (and one Palestinian whose case is DIRECTLY tied back to Israel, and some speculated that the Mossad was in fact involved) seems to couch itself in false characterizations, logical fallacies and deliberate mis-statements, which are too extensive for me to go into here.

            And, your satanic delusions are not unusual for people like you with anti-social personality disorder and religious narratives.

            And that, connected directly to the fact that you are just a piece of shit.

            Your just a piece of shit. Most people looking in know this. I have watched them name PaulT as a piece of shit.

            They might not say it to your forum face here, but lots of them are thinking it.

            PaulT is a piece of shit.

            A piece of shit with ZERO credibility with anyone that matters.

            And this, you have managed to drag out here for well over a year.

            SO, if for example, you die soon, it would benefit the human race in so many ways (fertilizer comes to mind), not least of which is that TDs forum wouldn't have to suffer a PaulT imposed thread meltdown (which would literally smell like shit=you), because I will continue to talk around you from here on out.

            Sorry I ever got stepped on by you, a piece of shit.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              PaulT (profile), 12 Apr 2020 @ 12:13am

              Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

              "Listen: can you please stop stalking my posts?"

              No, I reply every time your idiocy infects my email inbox, especially when you're attacking me personally. Especially now that you're gone way past the point where you're pretending to be participating in a conversation and devolved again into a 5 year old having a tantrum.

              Don't want me to reply to you? Stop writing posts for me to reply to.

              "Look, your racism and disdain for Fergusons dead black activists"

              Once again, I said nothing about them or their cause, just that you invoking their names to stroke your own insane ego means nothing, and you're actually a sick fuck for comparing yourself to them.

              Yet again, in your attempt to pretend not to be an nutcase in serve need of some kind of professional help, you prove that is exactly what you are without any doubt.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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              identicon
              Anonymous Clowder, 12 Apr 2020 @ 12:40am

              Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

              You have him pegged. He's on the run. Hilarious meltdown.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                PaulT (profile), 12 Apr 2020 @ 2:01am

                Re: Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

                You know we can tell when you're responding to yourself, right?

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                identicon
                Avatar Shmavatar, 12 Apr 2020 @ 9:24am

                Re: Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

                Oh, puhleeease, tell me, Vicar of Vapidness!, Wizard of Wonkery! Daredevil of Douchebaggery!

                (some anon derailing troll and idiot from Thpain)

                Talking around you now, you stupid piece of shit. I have yet to find anything you say, anywhere notable, exceptional, or even fact based.

                Your entire narrative since I encountered PaulT, Techdirt functions as a running smear campaign, much like stepping in dog shit.

                You and about six others here are simply a distraction by design from anything that challenges your frequent bi-polarization of discussions.

                But as such, you are a wonderful case study of the gatekeeping mechanism online and organic emergence of emergent norms v. the social engineering of dissent

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 12 Apr 2020 @ 10:36am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

                  Again, I'll note that it's several posts since you had anything to actually say on the subject of the article, and that you're still too stupid to realise I still know it's you replying to yourself.

                  If there were actually people tracking you across state lines, I presume it was for your own safety and/or to stop you from killing again,

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                    identicon
                    ROGS, 12 Apr 2020 @ 12:08pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

                    RE:

                    it's several posts since you had anything to actually say on the subject of the article

                    Sure, maybe that's true. Its because I stepped in shit. Look! PaulT, Techdirt! Derailing 101! In-House Troll! Techdirt "Insider" PaulT, guy on medications!

                    But you have yet to address reality, much less this article.

                    Look, I have repeatedly addressed how Facebook, and the US in general gives Israeli spies massive leeway and largess to commit crimes all over the world. They do it as the tip of the arrow for the wider christian sociopaths. And as a model of society, it is inept, bungling, and immoral.

                    So, actually, I don't give a rats ass who murders activists anymore. I don't give a rats ass who deploys malware anywhere. Chaos is the new order, bro.

                    But I do continue, despite myself, to help out those who are being targeted by these massive schemes. Like Darren Seals, et al. I owe it to my human brothers to try and protect them from predation by others.

                    SO, I did my time trying to uphold law and civil liberty. Did you?

                    I did my time trying to publish facts in the public's interest. Did you?

                    ANd, I did my time being gag stalked by my countries totally corrupt law "enforcement" systems, which are neither law, nor enforcement. Its mob rule, bro.

                    And so, I learned that its all gibberish, bi-polarized narratives, ad that the Joos and the Jeebuses work hand in hand to destroy those of us who challenge their narratives.

                    I found other, bigger allies.

                    Now, I live life to its fullest (and even had fun, and was surrounded by fun-loving people during the epidemic).

                    Can you say that about your life, caught as it is struggling in the bi-polar narrative?

                    But the world as you know it is largely a lie.

                    The rain in Spain, falls mainly on ...wait a minute...."The rain in Spain falls mainly in the mountains and north of the country, not in the plains"

                    https://www.quora.com/Does-the-rain-in-Spain-really-fall-mainly-on-the-plain

                    SO, yeah. Its a mirror life. Try to stop looking so cracked in all your intrusions upon my comments, ok?

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      PaulT (profile), 12 Apr 2020 @ 9:55pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:take yer meds, PaulT

                      So, like I said, you're no longer talking about the subject of the thread and are now just typing random crap in a failed attempt to attack me for what you think I said (which, it should be noted, is not actually what I said).

                      "Now, I live life to its fullest"

                      When why are you obsessively rambling on site you claim nobody reads, on a Sunday, in a way that only gets people to laugh at your delusions, desperately clawing at a response or validation for your comments? That sounds like the opposite of a full life to me.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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                        identicon
                        ROGS, 13 Apr 2020 @ 12:42am

                        PaulT IS random crapware

                        just typing random crap would be your continuing diatribe against sanity itself. And, its world clock is a bit off. Its not Sunday where I live.

                        PaulT, you didn't address anything in the post! Could you please steer your nuttiness in that direction next time?

                        The post is about Facebook-which is itself just a huge clunk of spyware--complaining that other spies are using it to spy with.

                        Huge irony failure, ay?

                        and two Facebook representatives who asked to purchase the right to use certain capabilities of Pegasus is just another indicator that its just one corporate spy outfit against another corporate spy outfit.

                        The west has slung itself back into the dark ages through speech repression and corporations substituting their voices for ours.

                        But you don't come here for the conversation, PaulT, you come here to express your divisive bi-polar narrative, and derail conversation.

                        I suspect this derailing might actually be your job; that you are a professional troll.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                        • icon
                          PaulT (profile), 13 Apr 2020 @ 1:03am

                          Re: PaulT IS random crapware

                          "And, its world clock is a bit off. Its not Sunday where I live.

                          I don't now where you live in terms of time zone, although timing suggests other posts were posted on your Sunday. But, instead of wasting your Sunday with your insane ramblings you're now doing it during the standard week, without the excuse of being in lockdown to excuse your behaviour? That's not much better.

                          "PaulT, you didn't address anything in the post!

                          Because it was incomprehensible nonsense? You have to make a point before I can address one.

                          "I suspect this derailing might actually be your job; that you are a professional troll."

                          I'll repeat 2 things again - the definition of "troll" is not "someone I disagree with", and the only times I post are when you directly attack or address me.

                          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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            identicon
            ROGS, 12 Apr 2020 @ 11:06am

            Re: Re:men in black/PaulT in SPain

            Well, you might enjoy the interesting case of the Smiley Face Killers then, because that is also as yet unfounded.

            https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-a-serial-killer-gang-murdering-young-men-across-the-us

            B ut, the investigators have made the identical linkage that I made in several homicides: cells of twelve people, teams of five murdering people.

            In your addled brain, PaulT, you think I am talking to you, when in fact other TD readers know I am talking around you. Sort of like you are the sidewalk, and we are walking on you.

            So, anyways, the guys at Ferguson were, numerically speaking (10), outliers, because only Darren Seals reported a definite number of people stalking him: he said that "ten men had surrounded him", and told him " You picked the wrong friends."

            Later, he was murdered.

            The number of people that surrounded him then is insignificant, because many variables were in play: the effects of memory under stress, the ability to accurately number multiple assailants; and the fact that surveillance stalkers always have a designated pair of lookouts, abstracted from the scene.

            Anyways, yeah...

            PaulT, What a nice table to sit at and have conversation.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              PaulT (profile), 12 Apr 2020 @ 9:51pm

              Re: Re: Re:men in black/PaulT in SPain

              "In your addled brain, PaulT, you think I am talking to you"

              If you're not talking to me, then why are you directly responding to my comments while quoting the words I said and directly attacking me at the same time? Seriously, explain that.

              It's notable that your comment have long stopped being anything to do with the actual thread and you're now just spewing random shit and insults to get a rise out of me, but in what part of your insane version of reality is that not responding to me?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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              identicon
              Never on Sunday?, 13 Apr 2020 @ 1:11am

              Re: Re: Re:men in black/PaulT in SPain

              Wow. on a Sunday?

              Since when is Sunday sacred to any sane person? And I notice the guy never complains about things said on Saturdays.

              I suspect a religious bias in the guy, as if Sunday has more meaning than Saturday.

              Yeah,the guy is a total troll.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                PaulT (profile), 13 Apr 2020 @ 1:22am

                Re: Re: Re: Re:men in black/PaulT in SPain

                Again, we can tell you're replying to yourself.

                "Since when is Sunday sacred to any sane person?"

                "Sacred" depends on your religious denomination. However, in most Western cultures Sunday is a day of rest with less businesses being open, and thus less people at work, thus the implication that a person is choosing to spend their leisure time when doing something on a Sunday Which would seem strange for a person insisting that the people responding to him are somehow deficient, if he's eitrher choosing to use his free time here or cutting into his Monday working hours..

                "And I notice the guy never complains about things said on Saturdays."

                I notice that you're lying, but you do have a habit of needing to invent a fantasy to respond to when the facts get in your way.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Professional Skeptic, 11 Apr 2020 @ 3:24pm

    That's hilarious. That guy is a piece of shit. But I am sceptical about what kind of shit he is.

    Batshit?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      identicon
      One Eighty Degrees, 13 Apr 2020 @ 12:53am

      Re: is PaulT Techdirts favorite troll?

      Israeli security firms are a disease against democracy. They have infested Silicon Valley like a cockroach hive.

      But perhaps even worse, are professional trolls like PaulT, who are their useful idiots.

      The guy hasn't mentioned the subject matter of the article anywhere, and he seldom does in any thread.

      And, he appears to be a sort of unhinged running personal attack against ROGS....and sanity itself.

      But I guess that the internet is empowering, and democratic in that way, allowing these mentally ill shut ins like that PaulT guy(and other NGO shills/Big Pharma meta narrative pushers/ Israeli troll farms/ DoD/intel comment forum derailers) to have a voice, somewhere

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        PaulT (profile), 13 Apr 2020 @ 1:05am

        Re: Re: is PaulT Techdirts favorite troll?

        We still now you're talking to yourself.

        "shut ins"

        1/3 of the world population is shut in right now, so that's hardly a criticism, even if it were true under normal circumstances (it's not). But, you claim not to be under quarantine - why are you acting the mental patient?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
          identicon
          ROGS, 13 Apr 2020 @ 10:50am

          Re: Re: Re: is PaulT Techdirts favorite troll?

          1/3 of the world population is shut in right now

          [citation needed]

          re: acting the mental patient?

          You seem to know a lot about that. Please, do tell you fucking nutcase.

          How do people like you get your meds when under lockdown anyways?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Rational Observer, 13 Apr 2020 @ 1:25am

    We still now you haven't addressed the article, anywhere, ever. That's kind of crazy.

    Esp. for a guy that claims it isn't an obsessive troll.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Techdirt Flag Brigade, 13 Apr 2020 @ 2:06am

    bhull242, PaulT, That One Guy, Toom1275, Stephen T. Stone

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 13 Apr 2020 @ 2:24am

      Re:

      I'll repeated what I just said in the other thread - so? Are regular members of a community, especially those being personally called out, not correct to respond to attacks on their community? What's your point?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    ROGS, 13 Apr 2020 @ 9:53am

    what's YOUR point?

    In the year plus that I have been acquainted with you, you have never discussed any content of any TD article ever You are just a running attack on me and others.

    You have specifically and obsessively targeted and attacked me, pre-emptively, and again, never once engaged with substance anywhere, EVER, on ANY article.

    So:

    If your/their response is to attack pre-emptively, then yes, you are wrong, as every mob throughout history has demonstrated.

    Unless of course, you believe as they do, that might makes right, in which case you are a fascist by definition.

    Some might have noticed that ROGS has consistently criticized EVERY intel agency, and ALL corrupt security industry cowards as lowly as the local pigs, and as high as the NSA/DoD/ODNI/Etc.

    Yet only when I criticize these these spies and thugs who hide behind the useful idiots who spew anti-Jewish conspiracy theory here, every time the Mossad, or the IDF trained tech gurus pull off a crime, or infest our gadgets (and our elections in the case of Seth Klarman and the Iowa app)with spyware, out come the antishemititisistaclismatically challenged, spewing the lie that travels the world 1000 times.

    SO, it has nothing to do with the canard in question, unless one is allied with said spies and thugs and those scurillous and criminal NGOs.

    While Rogs is no fan of any intel agents or agency spying on civilians and feeding data to pigs, he is at least internally consistent with the external reality that these thugs are wreaking disproportionate amounts of crime and havoc in his home nation, based on word policing.

    So, in every thread, what gets your and the other trolls dander up is that I criticize Israeli spooks and thugs TOO, as we see your asshattery in the Jerry Falwell thread right now.

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200410/10514044273/free-speech-supporter-jerry-falwell-jr-t hinks-criminal-to-report-his-dumb-dangerous-response-to-pandemic.shtml?cid=596

    Yes: zionists like Jerry Jr, and other religious fanatics who commit these crimes in coordination with police and intel around the world are always the problem.

    Tds useful idiots are only useful within the false terms of the binary fallacy you included. And I don't think that is the entirety of the TD community any more than criminal zionists represent the Jewish people.

    SO stop making it about that. Its not about that, but you are too stupid to know the difference.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 13 Apr 2020 @ 10:10am

      Re: what's YOUR point?

      See what we mean? You are specifically replying to someone but because you're incapable of using the reply button, we have to guess who it is. I assume it's me due to context and timing, but I could be wrong.

      "You have specifically and obsessively targeted and attacked me"

      No, I've responded to the comment you directed at me specifically. Or at least I assume that. If I'm wrong, use the convention that normal human beings use to participate.

      The rest of your comment is not a good sign of your mental health, but the basics should at least be within your grasp.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    ROGS, 14 Apr 2020 @ 10:04am

    psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-house trolls

    Sometimes, I reply as a different persona, because its an EXCELLENT way to demonstrate that controlled opposition or the diffusing of dissent is, like, a real thing here.

    Hence my use of the term "establishment." The entire pradigm has aged out, gained power, and now is stuck in a circa 2005 rut.

    And so, to demonstrate that there is a gatekeeping mechanism, and named organizations involved that limit the boundaries of speech, even on one of the most insightful online running commentaries of our police state, it helps to prove the many negatives involved in analyzing the binary fallacy that toxified the dialectic space so thoroughly, that it brought Trump into office (and really, he is doing quite a good job of managing all of the tribal mafias that run US politics today, as opposed to kowtowing to the CIA and its satellite NGOs).

    But most importantly, that guy up there helps me to define the term useful idiot.

    Activism isn't pretty, or fair, but its definitely NOT following bad rules established or enforced by apparently good people (in the binary, lol).

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 14 Apr 2020 @ 10:21am

      Re: psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-house trolls

      "Sometimes, I reply as a different persona, because..."

      You're a nutter? We know.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Um, wutever, 16 Apr 2020 @ 11:57am

        Re: Re: psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-house trolls

        Sure, I am crazy. Totally nuts.

        There YOU go! See ? You are RIGHT/correct/ absolutely the best ever (big thumbs up!!!!).

        A real WINNER! as opposed to a LOSER!!!!

        What a false, pathetic, binary hope you seek.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        ROGS, 18 Apr 2020 @ 1:26pm

        Re: Re: psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-house trolls

        No, because you there, cyber stalker, PaulT persona,ROGS Analysis (obscure)post here:

        we now owe apologies to all those 1960s hippies paranoid about the rising police state.

        Ooops. Wrong post.

        This one:

        https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161113/06093636030/appeals-court-to-cops-if-you-dont-have-t ime-constitutional-bullshit-you-dont-get-immunity.shtml?threaded=true#c1238

        Answer the question there, cyber-stalker PaulT Techdirt, psychiatric meta-narrative, sperg, forum troll derailing 101.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 19 Apr 2020 @ 12:29am

          Re: Re: Re: psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-house troll

          I do love the fact that you accuse me of all of these things, even though all I'm doing is replying to your attacks on me.

          What's funnier is that the post you demand I respond to was not directed at me to begin with. Are you hallucinating, or just too incompetent to paste the correct link?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
            identicon
            ROGS, 19 Apr 2020 @ 12:53pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-house t

            Ok, then lets reset, ok?

            I will ask you, one of my cyber-stalkers, to stop responding to, replying to, or otherwise attempting to interact with me here at techdirt.

            I will apply the following search language specific to that request:

            PaulT, Techdirt, online mobbing, in house trolls, please stop cyber stalking me.

            I will put a timestamp on it for legal and other reasons: 02:06:05 a.m., my time

            Then, just for fun, I will ask you, dogshit-on-my-heel, to once again, please avoid me here on this public forum. I do not expect that you will, nor do I expect that you will respect my polite asking that you stop cyber-stalking me.

            I understand that you have mental issues (OCD, control freak, dog porn fan, etc.)

            But I do seriously ask that you stop replying to me here at this forum, or otherwise harassing me online.

            I will be here(the Dude abides) and you will be here (why the fuck do people let their dogs shit on the street where I walk, WTF?!?!?)

            SO, going forwards, consider this my attempt to once again avoid your cyber-stalking behavior, with Carl Rogers direct language: PaulT, I don't want to talk to you. Please stop talking to me, via Techdirts reply feature. And, please stop flagging my posts because I believe you are ne of the fags who flags my posts*.

            There. That feels better. doesn't it, cyberfag?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              PaulT (profile), 19 Apr 2020 @ 10:02pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: psychiatric meta-narrative, Techdirt, in-hou

              "PaulT, Techdirt, online mobbing, in house trolls, please stop cyber stalking me."

              Again, we only respond to your direct, personally addressed, messages to us. It's within your power to stop it - stop sending us messages to reply to.

              "There. That feels better. doesn't it, cyberfag?"

              Your homophobia doesn't distract from your stupidity.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    ROGS, 14 Apr 2020 @ 11:12am

    Its so sad: that guy with the extension cord around his neck in a bathtub, with a toaster in it, in Spain, because he couldn't get dog porn during the epidemic. Those GOD damned cable companies!!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ROGS, 20 Apr 2020 @ 6:07am

    Only an insane bullying, paranoid, mental illness bashing buffoon(who uses mental illness slanders routinely) would respond to a message that is not directed at him/her/it.

    I wonder how the actually mentally ill feel about that?

    Apparently mental illness bashing is kosher with the online queer mafia, and here, with we whoever they are.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ROGS, 20 Apr 2020 @ 6:19am

    techdirt, troll farming, in house trolls

    Well, IP bans are kosher here, so I imagine VPNs and some persona management software might be a fitting cure.

    I won't waste the time with it, but others might.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Flag Captain #7, 20 Apr 2020 @ 10:37am

    Well, I see the crew has been busy. Keep up the good work, I will soon return with more work for you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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