Trump Announces One-Sided Plan To Meet With Video Game Makers Over Gun Violence

from the it-takes-two dept

In the conspiracy against video games that is now in full swing after the school shooting in Florida, it seems that it goes all the way to the top, by which I mean the recent comments by our Dear Leader, Donald Trump. Lower levels of the government have already begun foisting the sins of the shooter on the scapegoat of violent games, with Rhode Island looking for a plainly unconstitutional tax on adult-rated games and the governor of Kentucky trying to blame violent games for the recent shooting, sans evidence. And now it seems that Donald Trump has gotten into the mix, announcing that he will be meeting with "the video game industry" in coming weeks to see how they can stop real-world gun violence.

Presidential Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders announced at a briefing Thursday that President Trump plans to meet with members of the video game industry next week "to see what they can do" on the issue of gun violence.

Details on specific timing and attendance for the meeting weren't immediately available, but Sanders cast the meeting as of a piece with multiple others that have already taken place between the president and "a number of stakeholders" in the gun violence debate.

Except it appears that the reason the timing for those meetings wasn't provided during the White House briefing is almost certainly because nobody in the video game industry has any idea what Trump or Sanders is talking about. The Entertainment Software Association, which represents the larger game studios and publishers, came out with a statement that it has had no plans to meet with Trump, has received no invitations to meet with Trump, and would push back on any responsibility games have for real life violence were such a meeting to occur.

The same video games played in the US are played worldwide; however, the level of gun violence is exponentially higher in the US than in other countries. Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence. The US video game industry has a long history of partnering with parents and more than 20 years of rating video games through the Entertainment Software Rating Board. We take great steps to provide tools to help players and parents make informed entertainment decisions.

It's about as perfect a rebuttal to the violent games argument as there is: other countries have these same games, but not the violence. For its part, the White House clarified later that the invitations to meet with Trump would be going out over the next few days. Still, it probably would have been good for meetings to be scheduled before they were announced to the gaggle from the White House podium.

With this being so one-sided, instead, we're left to witness another grandstanding politician with another whipping post talking about protected art and speech being culpable for real-world tragedy.


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  • icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 3:53pm

    Oh, i am rather certain the reason there was an announcement with no one invited was that !0 Trump does that sort of thing and 2) no one moderated his yammering because they knew there would be a response, and they can spin that as "the industry refuses to cooperate, they hate our children". See also, encryption, etc.

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  • identicon
    Jordan, 6 Mar 2018 @ 3:58pm

    invitees

    What happens when they invite a game developer who tells Trump to go fornicate himself?

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:10pm

      Re: invitees

      > What happens when they invite a game developer who tells Trump to go fornicate himself?

      Heh, heh. I'd like to see that! Trump's response would be all over MSM and make him look good! -- No one EVER seems to get the best of Trump with repartee. Certainly no vulgar little weenie millenial will.

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    • icon
      Bt Garner (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 5:34pm

      Re: invitees

      "What happens when they invite a game developer who tells Trump to go fornicate himself?"

      Well, that person would be shot to death via Trump's Twitter account.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:06pm

    He will probably put Barron in charge of the committee to regulate video games.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:06pm

    Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

    Used it wrongly twice last week too. It has never and does not in any way or degree mean a post that is whipped, that'd be stupid, or "target", "over-used topic", or whatever you think. I guess you mean that abjectly immoral favorite of the British tyrants by which they never in least suffered but made others do: "whipping boy Í 1. orig., a boy brought up together with a young prince and required to take the punishment for the latter's misdeeds 2. SCAPEGOAT"

    It's likely useless to correct you. I bet you continue, and PROUDLY, thinking you're showing me up. So I just enjoy the hoots.

    Anyhoot, this is just another of Trump's marvelous mis-directions that keep momentum going his way, not that of "liberals". If a stunt, it's respectively FINE and MADDENING to the usual groups, exactly as intended.

    As for violence in general: know how many crimes were committed with (illegal for serfs to have) knives in London last year? Oodles. You are simply not including data that'd debunk your notions.

    Oh, and apparently since "Parkland" NRA membership is up by FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND! More openly you lunatics attack core American notions, the more you set yourselves back.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:12pm

      Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

      Yes, some people violate laws. Clearly, we just shouldn't have any.

      (And why is Parkland in quotes? Nevermind, we know why.)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        christenson, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:31pm

        Re: Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

        The term "whipping boy" is ordinarily used to mean the boy that has to be punished for someone else's sins.

        You know, the store was vandalized, *someone* has to pay...and it can't be the prince who did it, he's a prince...hence the whipping boy.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:45pm

      Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

      I try to avoid being a critic of someone's syntax but since you brought it up ....

      "Used it wrongly twice last week too."
      The above is horrible sentence structure with poor word choice.

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    • icon
      orbitalinsertion (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 5:41pm

      Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

      Going to find me a person
      Going to tie him up
      To the whipping post
      And beat the living shit out of him 'til the guy in the audience is satisfied

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    • icon
      Toestubber (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 6:21pm

      Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

      This disgusting troll should always be ignored, but he happens to be correct about the use of "whipping post" instead of "whipping boy." That bothered me as well.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 7:48pm

      Re:

      out_of_the_blue just hates it when due process is enforced.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 4:03am

      Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

      Going in reverse this time because why not.

      More openly you lunatics attack core American notions, the more you set yourselves back.

      Ah yes, the core American notion of [squints at notes] “I should be able to buy a military-grade weapon without so much as a background check”.

      Oh, and apparently since [Parkland] NRA membership is up by FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND!

      Congratulations! The number of members in the NRA still makes up around one percent of the US population.

      As for violence in general: know how many crimes were committed with (illegal for serfs to have) knives in London last year? Oodles.

      Until such time as a knife can do the exact same amount of damage in the exact same amount of time as can a centre-fire, semi-automatic rifle with a magazine capacity of over six, I’ll care more about the human-organ-annihilating weapon of mass destruction and how it can be legally sold to an 18-year-old.

      this is just another of Trump's marvelous mis-directions that keep momentum going his way

      Judging by the past couple of weeks, his momentum appears to be taking him toward the Grand Canyon in the style of Thelma and Louise.

      If a stunt, it's respectively FINE and MADDENING to the usual groups, exactly as intended

      I hate the walking sack of oatmeal that is our current president, but this move is not “maddening”, so much as it is a moment to wonder why Cadet Bone Spurs thinks he is an expert on violence and its root causes.

      It's likely useless to correct you. I bet you continue, and PROUDLY, thinking you're showing me up.

      Projection like this should come with free popcorn for the onlookers.

      It has never and does not in any way or degree mean a post that is whipped, that'd be stupid, or "target", "over-used topic", or whatever you think.

      Yes, and? Even if the term was misused, we understood what was meant, regardless of your pedantic correction attempt. If you take such issue with the writing on this site, write an article yourself so you can show everyone how it is done—you know, as long as you have something to say beyond “YOU TECHDIRT GOONS ARE ALL STUPID HACKS”. (If’n you don’t, maybe stick to jerking off, since it accomplishes much the same thing as your comments but saves us the trouble of having to read your posts.)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 9:44am

        Re: Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

        Ah yes, the core American notion of [squints at notes] “I should be able to buy a military-grade weapon without so much as a background check”.

        What's the relevant difference between the first and second amendments here? Both, by my reckoning, have the same absolutist langauge. Would a background check to exercise first-amendment rights be OK? Even if it's to talk about, say, a military-grade encryption algorithm?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 11:50am

          Re: Re: Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

          Guns exist for a specific violent purpose—to wound and kill living beings—so regulating who can buy them via controls such as background check makes sense. Speech has a specific non-violent purpose—communication between people—so regulating it in the same way as we would (and should) regulate guns makes no sense at all.

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        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 8 Mar 2018 @ 12:51am

          Re: Re: Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

          "Both, by my reckoning, have the same absolutist langauge"

          I disagree, though not being an American I'm coming from the view of an outsider looking in.

          Both amendments have room to manoeuvre, and both have been discussed many, many times but the courts in order to work out how they should apply.

          With the 1st, this means everything from whether the "free speech zones" implemented during the Bush era were allowable, to whether "speech" extends to things like movies and games.

          With the 2nd, this has been everything from whether or not you have to be a member of an organised militia to exactly which weapons count as "arms".

          In both cases, there have been found to be exceptions, so they are not absolutist rights as you claim. There are boundaries, places where the rights do not apply and limits and how they apply. You just seem to have major disagreements between yourselves about where the lines are drawn.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 11:08am

        Re: Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

        I have one comment -"Cadet Bone Spurs" should be "Cadet Bone Spurs - the super athlete"

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    • icon
      Dark Helmet (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 6:39am

      Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

      "Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment"."

      Are you really this dumb? The whipping post analogy is one in which someone of authority brings out their favorite target for a public flogging, attaching them to the whipping post. This one isn't really that hard, even for you....

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      • identicon
        Michael, 7 Mar 2018 @ 9:32am

        Re: Re: Strong words from clown mis-using: "whipping post = a post to which offenders are tied to be whipped as a legal punishment".

        "Are you really this dumb?"

        Yes. Yes he is.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 4:39pm

      Donnys still not gonna let you touch it.

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  • icon
    CSMcDonald (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:25pm

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:25pm

    What are the odds?

    I am betting that Trump will in fact have this meeting. In his own mind. The meeting minutes will be produced by psychic mind reader with a background in channeling Twitter feeds. He will claim all sorts of success (whether game makers or any of their representatives show up or not) and propose...no...make that execute an Executive Order that will require purchasers of video games go through the same rigmarole that gun purchasers are made to jump through, and raise the age for purchase of games that anyone claims might have any kind of violent content (whether it does or not) to 35.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 4:47pm

      Re: What are the odds?

      Oh - you bring up a good point. I can't wait till it becomes more difficult to purchase a video game than it is to purchase a fire arm. /s jic

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  • identicon
    Pixelation, 6 Mar 2018 @ 5:12pm

    Thank God he's involved

    Trump will announce a tariff on any imported video games and declare, mission accomplished.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 5:35am

      Trump versus Obama

      In Jan 2013 address on gun violence in U.S. -- President Barack Obama called for the federal CDC to diligently renew scientific inquiry into the relationship between “video games, media images, and violence,” Obama requested $10 million from Congress to conduct this new research.

      Many of Obama’s speeches about fitness, education and children used video games as the boogeyman in child rearing.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 8:29am

        Re: Trump versus Obama

        I agree but the difference is having it examined through a scientific inquiry. Trump probably fired them all.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 5:45pm

    Oops. Seems I accidentally went to the Onion instead of Techdirt.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 6:08pm

    Choices

    So I can buy an AR15 but not GTA? Well OK then. What to do now with my new toy, gotta think on that. After all what else could you do with an assault rifle. I can't shoot virtual targets so I need real targets.

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  • identicon
    Rekrul, 6 Mar 2018 @ 6:40pm

    I have it on good authority that every single mass shooter used something called "air". It seems that they were all addicted to it and used it constantly, every single day of their lives. Maybe we should be looking into getting rid of this "air" stuff...

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    • icon
      TKnarr (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 6:49pm

      Re:

      Especially since the bulk of it arrives in this country from overseas. We need to impose high tariffs on it, and jail anyone dealing in or possessing illegally-imported "air". That'll address the mass-shooter problem and help the budget deficit at the same time!

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 7:18pm

    If there's scientific evidence, Trump ignores it. (climate change)

    If there's no scientific evidence, Trump embraces it. (violence and video games)

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  • identicon
    Peter, 6 Mar 2018 @ 8:59pm

    Harder to legally fly a drone then to shoot a gun

    You must register to operate a drone . In many states there are no such restrictions to operate a gun.

    The White House also wants to be able to take control of a rogue drone. Why aren't the same laws applied to cars and guns? I can't recall a drone ever killing a person. Yet out of control cars and guns are killing every few minutes. Maybe attaching a gun to my drone will get the government off my back.

    Maybe the video game industry needs to package a real gun with the games to ensure the government actually doesn't trample the buyers constitutional rights.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2018 @ 9:22pm

      Re: Harder to legally fly a drone then to shoot a gun

      "You must register to operate a drone"
      - over .55lbs

      " I can't recall a drone ever killing a person."
      - civilian

      " Maybe attaching a gun to my drone will get the government off my back."
      - It's been done already

      Reminds me of that joke where a woman says that maybe she should incorporate her vagina so the government will stop regulating it.

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    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 12:27am

      Re: Harder to legally fly a drone then to shoot a gun

      "The White House also wants to be able to take control of a rogue drone. Why aren't the same laws applied to cars and guns?"

      Because current technology doesn't allow that as a realistic possibility, but drone controls do allow for it.

      "I can't recall a drone ever killing a person."

      Erm, I'd read the news a bit harder then. Also, even if they hadn't - should you have to wait until people are dying to enact sensible restrictions?

      "Maybe attaching a gun to my drone will get the government off my back."

      Americans are weird sometimes. You try everything you have to use your military to force your method of government on to other countries, but you're petrified of the government itself. When challenged, your only defence is more guns. Then you never seem to realise that the same government has better and bigger guns than you do.

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    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 4:06am

      Re: Harder to legally fly a drone then to shoot a gun

      I can't recall a drone ever killing a person.

      Maybe ask Barack Obama about his approval of the use of drones in overseas military operations, such as the operation that targeted and killed an American citizen.

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  • icon
    rohul amin (profile), 6 Mar 2018 @ 10:28pm

    shoot a gun

    Oh, i am rather certain the reason there was an announcement with no one invited was that !0 Trump does that sort of thing and 2) no one moderated his yammering because they knew there would be a response, and they can spin that as "the industry refuses to cooperate, they hate our children". See also, encryption, etc.
    [Link](http://bdjobcircular.com/ekti-bari-ekti-khamar-field-assistant-mcq-result/)

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 12:22am

    So, when real guns are killing real people, the reaction will be to limit virtual guns that kill ... euh nobody?

    Somehow I get the feeling that he already knows that access to certain goods is the problem. But it is access to guns, not games, dummy!

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    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 12:34am

      Re:

      It's a scapegoat. Some Americans are in love with guns but afraid of new things. Videogames are the current "new thing", taking over from movies, music, comic books, and whatever else has been the scapegoat in the past.

      The whole thing is easily debunked by looking at the actual stats. Gun crime has mostly gone down since videogames became popular, with the notable exception of mass shootings. Meanwhile, although the same games are played everywhere else in the world, only the US has the mass shooting problem.

      If Trump himself doesn't know how ridiculous this is, his staff certainly know. But, there's almost certainly more money in guns than games.

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  • identicon
    Steve, 7 Mar 2018 @ 2:31am

    New NRA Slogan:

    "Guns don't Kill People!
    Gamers do!"

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 2:55am

    Next thing you know, Trump will be claiming that banning games like GTA will save thousands of lives by reducing car accidents.

    Well it makes about as much sense as blaming games for gun violence.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 4:40am

    all because Trump hasn't the guts to do what needs to be done to actually save lives and make it more difficult for guns to be bought and distributed in the first place! i have to ask, when was the last time someone on screen actually managed to jump off screen and do any sort of physical harm to someone else? i thought it took a physical person to actually hurt another physical person, not an animation!

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 6:17am

    Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

    The variance is in the person, not in the material they are exposed to.

    IOW, we have nearly 100% exposure to mass media content nationally. It is impossible to statistically argue that media content is or isn't responsible, because there is nobody you can use as a control group.

    That isn't to say that mass media content isn't actually a major factor. It is just to say that people respond to the psychological battery inflicted by mass media in different ways.

    The expectation of the state, and indeed most people will be that the variant individual is "bad", and must be controlled so that society preserves. The actual solution is for society to preserve itself wholistically so that less people are antagonized to the state of fight or flight, simply through the act of participating in it.

    This is not an 80/20 problem. It doesn't matter how many people you lock up. There will always be a new standard for the variant individual. The harm scales up to create the variant individual.

    If your company hires industrial psychologists to make your products or advertising more addictive, you aren't doing anything different than slinging dope. It doesn't matter if your making slot machines, or using puppies and kittens for ad-tracked based advertising. You are fucking with peoples neurons in ways that are harmful. And more often than not, you are doing it without their informed consent.

    Computer games are probably a factor, but they are really the small players in this biosphere. The biggest one is advertising.

    It was actually really interesting to watch people over this last power outage. People were actually tweaking because they couldn't get their media dose. Not just irritated, but walking around tweaking like full blown meth addicts. It was really wild to watch.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 8:23am

      Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

      That's nice and all, but I don't think advertising is that harmful to a person's psyche. In fact, I'd argue that because we are so massively inundated with it, people have become desensitized to it and it no longer effects them as much as it used to. In essence, people just ignore it now because they are sick and tired of these companies cramming ads down their throats. I know I do. That's partly why Netflix and ad blockers are so popular. Everyone hates ads.

      All that aside, nowhere have I seen anyone suggest, or any evidence to support that advertising causes teens to go and shoot up their schools. That may possibly be an even dumber statement than video games cause violence. And no, computer/video games are not a factor. Science has all but proven this.

      It was actually really interesting to watch people over this last power outage. People were actually tweaking because they couldn't get their media dose. Not just irritated, but walking around tweaking like full blown meth addicts. It was really wild to watch.

      Perhaps you should refer them to a psychiatrist then? I also have a hard time believing this was indicative of an entire city/town/village's population. Full on media addiction of the level you describe is actually pretty rare.

      Most people I see during a power outage either break out a book, some board games, or go out for coffee. Not to mention that a power outage is not likely to affect mobile devices, because, you know, they aren't connected to the power grid and cell towers have backup batteries/generators in case of such an occurrence.

      So basically I'm calling BS on your claims.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 9:34am

        Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

        "because we are so massively inundated with it, people have become desensitized to it"

        Learning to accommodate abuse doesn't mean that you don't continue to be effected by it. The fact that your view is consistent with that progenated by mass media programming should give you pause. If it doesn't, meme on tweaker.

        "nowhere have I seen anyone suggest, or any evidence to support that advertising causes teens to go and shoot up their schools"

        A lot of studies have gone into the psychology of the persons who commit these acts. Of course you actually have to read them in the context they were intended, rather than just listen to cherry picked snippets being used to confirm the positions of mass media outlets and law enforcement.

        At the micro scale, psychology has accumulated a sufficient statistical base to identify causes in individual cases. At a macro level sociology and econ are not predicting the distribution of those variant individuals. This is not surprising considering where econ and sociology generally get their funding and their data.

        My point here is that if your looking at a minnow from above and a whale from below, the problem is with the view, not the object.

        The question then becomes, why is the microscopic view, so dischordant with the macroscopic view? And that should be obvious. It is basically the same reason you don't take the free gambling lessons that casinos offer, or free dope from a guy on the street. There is a reason it's free.

        We know what causes individuals to do this. We don't have to look at it from an econ or sociology standpoint to get a picture. All we have to do is look for major increases in the related stimuli in the past 50 years. And if you do that, it is clear as day what is going on.

        The whole country is being gaslighted. Some people find means of becoming healthy. Some passify. Some commit suicide. Some choose to respond with violence. The means to becoming healthy are becoming fewer and fewer because exposure to abuse vectors are becoming more unavoidable. (ever try to walk through an airport and NOT to hear somebody on a TV trying to pump bullshit into your head?)

        Conscious decisions are less prevalent than they appear.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 11:41am

          Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

          Learning to accommodate abuse doesn't mean that you don't continue to be effected by it.

          I agree. I don't agree that being exposed to ads constitutes as abuse. At worst, they are well paid commercial versions of "Bible thumpers".

          The fact that your view is consistent with that progenated by mass media programming should give you pause.

          Actually, my view is consistent with scientific study and fact. And there are no studies or scientific data to support the theory that ads are inherently harmful to the human psyche, especially to the point of causing them to go on mass murder sprees.

          A lot of studies have gone into the psychology of the persons who commit these acts.

          Agreed.

          Of course you actually have to read them in the context they were intended, rather than just listen to cherry picked snippets being used to confirm the positions of mass media outlets and law enforcement.

          You mean the context where the final conclusion is that ads and video games had no effect on whether they committed these acts of violence and was instead due to pre-existing mental or emotional issues? I really don't see any other way to interpret their findings. But by all means, enlighten me.

          There is a reason it's free.

          Free doesn't always equate to bad.

          We know what causes individuals to do this....All we have to do is look for major increases in the related stimuli in the past 50 years. And if you do that, it is clear as day what is going on.

          Correlation does not equal causation.
          The same argument for why video games do not cause violence can be applied to ads. People in other countries are inundated with similar amounts of ads, especially on the internet, yet the US is the only one with such high amounts of mass shootings and violence. There are other "major increases in stimuli" that occurred in approximately the same time (proliferation of cars, air travel, electricity, RF radiation, etc...), and you could say the same thing about them. "Well the increase in the amount of people driving cars rose at the same time the amount of mass shootings rose, therefore cars are the cause of gun violence!" Get my point?

          Your whole last paragraph is total bunk. You also use gaslighting incorrectly. If we were being gas lighted, we would be questioning our sanity. We're not. You're using the term to mean that we are being deliberately and maliciously influenced by media to an unhealthy state. Towards what ends you believe this is being done is unclear. In any case it's not true.

          Greedy corporations see a way to possibly make some money, most people see ads for what they are and either ignore them or find them interesting enough to check out the product. I'm pretty sure that Tide ads didn't cause anyone to go out commit mass school shootings.

          You can easily be healthy in today's society even with being bombarded by what you term as "abuse vectors". Education and critical thinking are the solution. Though I won't complain if the amount of ads does get restricted down in a non-First Amendment violating way. I just want to watch my show from start to finish, not listen to a bunch of ads for viagra and shamwow that I don't need and don't want.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 1:34pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

            "Correlation does not equal causation."

            In statistical sciences there is no truth except by correlation. The reason that they are statistical sciences in the first place, is because there is no smoking gun. That would cover econ, sociology and psychology btw. So your bolded meme doesn't communicate what you think it's communicating.

            "And there are no studies or scientific data to support the theory that ads are inherently harmful to the human psyche"

            And you being an expert in whats harmful to the human psyche I'm pleased to hear your overwhelming confidence. I am by no means an expert, but I've witnessed enough harm over the years to have a fair understanding of what I'm looking at.

            "You mean the context where the final conclusion is that ads and video games had no effect on whether they committed these acts"

            That may be correct, fundamentally. But what industry functions based on fundamentals?

            There are techniques in interpersonal communication that cause people harm. If you can't concede that, then discussing anything with you is pointless.

            The next question is: "Can you identify them?"

            And that is an extremely difficult question. And if you don't think it is a difficult question, then you haven't identified them yet.

            And the next question is: "Can you identify them in mass media?"

            And my answer is yes and yes. Every day. That you can't does not make you wrong, it makes you typical. There is something in addiction called: "addiction pyschosis". It is a lie people tell themselves over and over because the truth is too difficult to bare. One day you'll account for the hours of your life pissed away by mass media hype, you might become motivated enough to start looking for just such a lie amongst all those things you're so absolutely sure about.

            "Your whole last paragraph is total bunk. You also use gaslighting incorrectly."

            Gaslighting is very subtle by definition. It is used in a variety of different ways. What distinguishes it from any other behavior, is that it is intended to create a sense of emotional disquite in the victem. It really can be almost any behavior given the right context. It is qualitative mostly in intent and result, and less by method. But there are several methods that are most frequently used. And I've seen a lot of them up close and personal. Even used a few, though I'd rather not admit it. Most of us have at some point in our lives, though we often use them without being consciously aware of the fact that we are.

            We've all had those days where we wake up, and go "HOLY SHIT!" because we've just realized that some huge truth has been staring us in the face our whole lives, and we simply failed to witness it. My best wishes that you eventually have one of those days.

            Yes I heard your request for data. I'm not your research assistant.

            The question you should be asking right now, is "What if its true?"

            But more likely what your thinking is: "what an asshole, I showed him."

            And thats OK too. I'd like to help you. But I just don't have any more time for that now.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 2:50pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

              > *In statistical sciences there is no truth except by correlation.*

              False. There are many times when you can find causation in statistical sciences (I would argue the sciences you list are also not strictly statistical but that's another discussion). I will concede it isn't always easy. However, what you are doing here is looking at two events that both increased in the same time period and saying "yep, that one caused the other one". However, you are ignoring whether they actually are related or not as well as ignoring all the other stimulus that also increased during the same period. Why focus on one and not the others?

              > *And you being an expert in whats harmful to the human psyche I'm pleased to hear your overwhelming confidence.*

              Did I say I was an expert? Nope, what I did say was:
              > *there are no studies or scientific data to support the theory that ads are inherently harmful to the human psyche*

              So what I'm saying is science and the real experts say you're wrong. Now I will concede that some (not all by a longshot) messages of said advertising can have a negative effect (unrealistic body portrayal of men and women for example) but those are only a small fragment of all ads. And in no way could they cause someone to go out and perform a mass shooting. But ads in and of themselves are not harmful.

              > *There are techniques in interpersonal communication that cause people harm.*

              Agreed. But we're discussing advertising, not interpersonal communication, and no they aren't the same thing. Don't change the goal posts.

              > *One day you'll account for the hours of your life pissed away by mass media hype*

              Not sure what you mean since I only watch movies and tv shows on services without ads (e.g. Netflix), I don't even have cable or dish tv, and I use an ad blocker that blocks 99.999% of all ads on the internet. Including the ones that play before every youtube video and the ones in my facebook feed. So by my account, so far, about 0.0000314 percent of the hours of my life have been "pissed away" by mass media hype. I'm ok with that since I spend the rest of my life actually doing stuff I enjoy.

              > *Gaslighting is very subtle by definition.*

              So what you're saying is it means whatever you want it to mean. Cool, you do you bro. In the meantime I'll stick with the dictionary definition.

              > *My best wishes that you eventually have one of those days.*

              Had it. It came when I realized I'd been playing FPS games with mouse acceleration on for years and I should have turned it off for better accuracy. Seriously, mind blown. (And yes I am being 100% serious with that statement.)

              > *Yes I heard your request for data. I'm not your research assistant.*

              I've researched it and have found no data to support your thesis but plenty available data to support mine. So unless you can provide proof that I missed something, I can only assume you have none and/or are lying. So why should I believe you when I see nothing to prove you right?

              > *The question you should be asking right now, is "What if its true?"*

              Did that when I researched it.

              > *But more likely what your thinking is: "what an asshole, I showed him."*

              No, but I do feel sorry for you that you cannot seem to accept well established facts.

              > *And thats OK too. I'd like to help you. But I just don't have any more time for that now.*

              That's ok, I don't think I would particularly like your kind of help. However, if you've got some scientifically sound studies and facts to throw at me I will absolutely accept your help.

              I'm sorry you don't have time to help your fellow man, but don't worry, I won't abandon you to hopelessness. I'll be here to talk as much as you want.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 3:53pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

                "I'll be here to talk as much as you want."

                Of that I am sure.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2018 @ 6:29am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

                  ;)

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2018 @ 6:59am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

              "Correlation does not equal causation."

              One of the things I have noticed is that we keep talking about this incorrectly. Correlation does not equal causation *except* when there is a casual relationship. In other words, there is a known mechanism connecting the two things. So, yes, we can determine when correlation equals causation.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2018 @ 7:58am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Numerous authorities have examined the scientific record and found there is no link between media content and real-life violence

                A casual relationship still does not equal causation. The fact that both things rose at the same time does imply a casual relationship, but that does not mean that one caused the other. They could be both caused by a third factor not currently being looked at.

                To say that because mass shootings rose at the same time that companies were increasing their ad campaigns is simplistic and naive. It ignores multiple other stimulus that may have increased or had an effect on it as well as ignoring the fact that this increase in exposure to advertising happened all over the world at the same time, yet the US is the only country that also had an increase in mass shootings.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Mar 2018 @ 9:37am

    Won't be one-sided

    With Trump involved there will be at least 2 sides. He's already taken them both, with this very issue. And he has no real principles, so who knows what additional sides he'll take before the meeting.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    John85851 (profile), 7 Mar 2018 @ 12:10pm

    I think there should be a meeting

    I think there should be a meeting between Trump and the leaders of the video game industry (whoever that turns out to be). And I think the meeting should be televised and "on the record".

    Then I think the video game industry's suggestions about how to stop real-world violence should be:
    1) Better gun control.
    2) Better access to mental medical care.
    3) Affordable access to mental health care.
    4) Reinstating the ban on assault rifles.
    5) Better gun licensing requirements.
    9999999) Video games don't cause real-world gun violence.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wendy Cockcroft, 8 Mar 2018 @ 5:47am

      Re: I think there should be a meeting

      Yup.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2018 @ 10:28am

      Re: I think there should be a meeting

      Yes I agree for
      1 -being able to hit what you aim at
      2 -medical care for all , like the rest of the free world
      3 -see 2
      4 -Second Amendment A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
      5 -See 4
      9999999 -So true

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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