Good News: Trump Protestors Accused Of 'Hiding Behind The First Amendment' Acquitted

from the first-amendment-still-works dept

Last week we wrote about the insanity of the DOJ's argument in trying to convict a group of protestors at Trump's inauguration. As we noted, the DOJ didn't even try to connect the defendants with any violence or property damage, but merely said that by being near the property damage they were accomplices, because they made the actual perpetrators harder to catch. When talking about the First Amendment and the right to assemble, Assistant US Attorney Rizwan Quereshi, incredibly, claimed that the defendants were "hiding behind the First Amendment." Even more incredibly, on Monday of this week another Assistant US Attorney, Jennifer Kerkhoff, tried to tell the jury that the judge's instruction about reasonable doubt "doesn't mean a whole lot", leading the judge to jump in and say that Kerkhoff clearly didn't mean to say that:

Kerkhoff: The defense has talked to you a little bit about reasonable doubt. You're going to get an instruction from the Judge. And you can tell it's clearly written by a bunch of lawyers. It doesn't mean a whole lot. But look at the last line.

The Court: So wait...

Kerkhoff: I apologize.

The Court: I know she didn't mean to say what she just said. But --

Kerkhoff:: It means a lot.

The Court: I just need to say, ladies and gentlemen, you will be instructed on reasonable doubt. You must follow each and every word of my instructions on reasonable doubt.

Kerkhoff: Yes.

The Court: Ms. Kerkhoff did not mean to trivialize any portion of it, and it's just as important that you understand --

Kerkhoff: I apologize.

The Court: -- that every word of the reasonable doubt instructions, like all the rest of my instructions, are very important.

Kerkhoff: It's an important instruction.

Well, it appears that the jury did, in fact, pay attention to the reasonable doubt instructions, and has acquitted all six defendants on all charges. That includes Alexei Wood, the journalist who was covering the protests, as well as two other defendants who were there as medics to treat anyone injured (the DOJ tried to paint them as accomplices who helped fix people up to do more damage).

This case was important for trying to criminalize reporting, but to an even larger extent for trying to criminalize protesting as a group, where all members of a protest would somehow be considered liable for any damage done by any member. Thankfully, the jury saw through it and found all defendants not guilty on all charges. One hopes that the Justice Department (which rarely loses cases) will maybe think more carefully in the future about bringing such bullshit charges against people for exercising their First Amendment rights. And that matters quite a bit, as there are 188 other defendants from the same protest who are still awaiting trial.


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  • icon
    Roger Strong (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 11:40am

    At this point even the "Freeman on the Land / Sovereign Citizen" folks are shaking their heads at DOJ claims.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 11:43am

    One hopes that the Justice Department (which rarely loses cases) will maybe think more carefully in the future about bringing such bullshit charges against people for exercising their First Amendment rights.

    Why would they? They can keep doing this until they win; the taxpayer is footing the bills.

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  • icon
    Ryunosuke (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 11:52am

    so two things I learned today:

    Unfavorable speech is still protected free speech: See - Snyder vs Phelps.

    also, according to HuffPo, DC courts handle both federal and local cases, so the federal prosecutors also have a certain... bias? In the case? as in they work for the govt, who the protesters happen to be protesting about. if that makes sense.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:06pm

      Re:

      The United States Attorney for the District of Columbia is a Trump appointee...

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      ralph_the_bus_driver (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:49pm

      Re:

      The City of Washington has an elected Attorney General that prosecutes minor crimes and misdemeanors. The US Attorney of the District of Columbia handles felonies and Federal crimes.

      There is no way you can convince me that this case was not politically motivated.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    rorybaust (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:04pm

    wow if the defence had said that

    amazing how the judge gives the prosecutors the benefit of the doubt , to me that was clearly contempt of court

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:07pm

      Re: wow if the defence had said that

      You're going to get an instruction from the Judge.... It doesn't mean a whole lot.

      Yeah, I'd say that fits the literal interpretation of "contempt of court" to a T.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:43pm

        Re: Re: wow if the defence had said that

        Just to be pedantic, you can have a "literal translation (word for word, without placing it in the specific context of the current reader), OR an interpretation (infrequently known as a liberal translation because it is placed in a certain context).

        A "literal interpretation" is a frequent abuse of the English language, wedding the inflexible to the flexible.

        For example, the French phrase "direction assistée" is commonly translated as "power steering", but this is actually an interpretation. A word for word translation could include "assisted following". If the context for "direction assistée" is automotive it's clear what it should mean, but otherwise it could be someone called upon to help you get about, such as a pilot or guide.

        In any case, I agree that the guvmint lawyer was about to commit not just contempt of the court, but, worse, contempt of the people.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 6:52pm

          Re: Re: Re: wow if the defence had said that

          Language is descriptive, not prescriptive. If he says literal interpretation and others understand his meaning, it works and becomes a legitimate usage. Usage determines correctness, not your father's usage or pedantry.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 2:29am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: wow if the defence had said that

            >Usage determines correctness, not your father's usage or pedantry.

            Except in the case of laws, when you need the usage that prevailed at the time the law was written.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 5:49am

          Re: Re: Re: wow if the defence had said that

          I was just wondering if someone would be able to work a car analogy into this story. Thanks. (Context should indicate if that is meant literally.)

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:08pm

      Re: wow if the defence had said that

      That should be grounds for disbarment in my opinion. The Assistant US Attorney just attempted to undermine the entire justice system to get a win.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:36pm

        Re: Re: wow if the defence had said that

        Yes, informing jurors that a thing called jury nullification is a crime and should be punishable by contempt of cop charges...

        The courts are not the highest power in the land, we the people are, we just need to wake up and start overruling the laws we don't agree with until they are repealed.

        If every jury on copyright cases returned a 'not guilty' verdict, how much longer would copyright be respected (haha... like its respected now). How long after this until all cases are tried and judged by an appointed judge without a jury?

        It would never happen, right /s

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:55pm

          Re: Re: Re: wow if the defence had said that

          informing jurors that a thing called jury nullification is a crime

          The Assistant US Attorney—i.e., the prosecutor—tried to undermine the “reasonable doubt” instructions from the judge in order to secure convictions. Jury nullification is…not that.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:00pm

            Re: Jury Nullification

            "...prosecutor—tried to undermine the “reasonable doubt” instructions from the judge in order to secure convictions. Jury nullification is…not that."

            _________________


            yes it is that -- and NOT a crime

            A jury has full legal authority to decide both the facts of the case before it & validity/applicability of the specific law(s) being applied in that case. Juries may use their discretion (judgement) to either acquit or convict defendants.

            In that regard, judges have no authority to command ("instruct") juries upon how they must interpret the law, including what constitutes 'reasonable doubt'.
            Commanding juries to use a particular interpretation of a law is de facto jury tampering.

            The prosecutor here was correct in implying the jury could make its own judgement about reasonable doubt and ignore the judge's instruction. But the prosecutor was just trying anything to win the case... and no doubt strongly opposes jury nullification. The judge here was totally wrong.

            Note that "jury nullification" is a casual term that does not convey the full scope of the underlying constitutional principle.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:12pm

              Re: Re: Jury Nullification

              Jury nullification is a concept where members of a trial jury can vote a defendant not guilty if they do not support a government's law, do not believe it is constitutional or humane, or do not support a possible punishment for breaking a government's law.

              Wikipedia is not precisely the best place to go for the research of the intricacies of trial law and whatnot, but I tend to trust this definition of the concept of jury nullification over yours.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:07pm

    The communist terrorists should have been thrown in to Guantanamo but then again, I forgot I live in a country that's trying to commit cultural suicide.

    Also, it's common practice for ALL of these low-level domestic terrorists to bring first aid with them:

    https://www.amazon.com/Antifa-Anti-Fascist-Handbook-Mark-Bray/dp/1612197035

    It's not uncommon for them to lie their asses off to police to protect their own after committing a crime:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-IFcCY0m3E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H27Ul9ZsHk

    "One hopes that the Justice Department (which rarely loses cases) will maybe think more carefully in the future about bringing such bullshit charges against people for exercising their First Amendment rights."

    Do you actually believe the bullshit coming out of your mouth?

    Rioting and violently assaulting people for ideological reasons is domestic terrorism:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGrvfL2mzUw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGUCq5fpMGo


    Thes e deranged morons LARPing as revolutionaries could give two shits less about the first amendment:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIQA7ER0EY

    Seriously TD, never go full retard.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:10pm

      Re:

      The whataboutism from the Trump trolls and Russians bots and anti-free speech fascists are hitting the comment sections of articles about this ruling really hard.

      What does antifa have to do with medics and journalists who didn't participate in a riot?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:15pm

        Re: Re:

        The cognitive dissonance of some of you people on here is absolutely astonishing.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:18pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Don't use words you don't understand.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:19pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          If you have evidence that these people were antifa and that they committed crimes, you should really turn it over to the Office of the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia because they don't seem to have any evidence to convince a jury with but you seem to know they're guilty.

          Come on right honorable keyboard lawyer with a pre-law from Breitbart and a JD from 4chan, show us your evidence.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:58pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            The only reason the so-called 'medics' were acquitted is because they couldn't be identified given the fact they were all wearing masks...accept perhaps the so-called journalist that was egging them on but we never got to see if he was wearing a mask at the Communist RIOTS down in DC.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:03pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Ah yes, the only reason they were acquitted...is that there was no evidence that they committed a crime, therefore, obviously, they're guilty!

              You are a legal genius.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                An Ominous Cow Herd, 24 Dec 2017 @ 1:27pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                He accuses others of cognitive dissonance, then follows it up with some of his own. In fact, his post may possibly be one of the best examples I've ever seen of it. Combined with his unhealthy fixation on Techdirt, I'd wager this commenter is fairly unhinged in real life. Definitely not someone you'd ever want to come across in person. I pity those who do.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Ryunosuke (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 2:54pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Communist Riots....

              I don't think one of those words means what you think it means.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 7:02pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              The medics were arrested and were identified upon arrest. The journalist provided the footage he filmed during the protest to show his innocence. Did you poll all the protesters to determine their communist affiliation or do you just assume anyone who opposes fascism is a communist?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                PaulT (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 12:52am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Second one, even though he's clearly unclear on the definition of the word...

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 5:37am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                I find it hilarious that he thinks that communists would be the main group opposing fascists instead of capitalists. How does some big self proclaimed flag waving patriot not support those defending freedom and opposing Nazis? Oh right. Because there were some very fine people on both sides.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 8:58am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  This type doesn't know the difference between the words. Hell, he probably doesn't know that communists were one of the first groups purged by the Nazis, he probably thinks they're the same thing because he's been taught they're both bad words.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • icon
                    The Wanderer (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 12:35pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    More likely, he sees the "communism"/"socialism" association, sees "Nazi" / "National Socialist Party", and infers that Nazism is in some way socialism which is communism therefore the Nazis are obviously pro-Communist and vice versa because they're actually the same category.

                    That "logic" completely ignores nuance, of course, as well as little things like "words that are capable of having multiple meanings" - but that sort of thing seems to be a relatively common factor with that mindset.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      PaulT (profile), 24 Dec 2017 @ 12:14am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      In that case, he also misses the reality that just because someone calls themselves something, that doesn't mean that's what they are. The Nazis used the word socialist in the name of their party because that encouraged support, not because they were actually socialist, in the same way that North Korea isn't suddenly a democracy because they have that word in their name.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • identicon
                      Cho Seung-Hui, 24 Dec 2017 @ 9:11am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      USA export this "nazisocialist" justice model to South America. so...

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 6:40pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              The only reason the so-called 'medics' were acquitted is because they couldn't be identified given the fact they were all wearing masks...

              And yet you still know who they were. I see.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          stderric (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:43pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          And your cognitive absence is absolutely hilarious.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:04pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          I’d almost say you were one of the regulars playing dumb just to score points off an AC sock puppet. If I didn’t know for a ceretainly that you really believe all that drivel you spew and furthermore you really, really think you have a cleaver argument with a real gotcha at the end. It’s cute and sad. Kinda like watching a retarded puppy with a box on its head, piss itself after running into a wall.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:18pm

      Re:

      lol

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:31pm

      Re:

      there is no number-of-shits-given to constitutional-rights-kick-in clause in the constitution.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:50pm

      Re:

      How would you justify throwing protestors-turned-rioters into prison indefinitely with no trial? How do you know, with the certainty of God, what everyone at that protest-turned-riot was there to do? How do you know the state of mind of even one of those defendants? And what actual arguments or sentiments do you have for us besides “everyone who isn’t right-of-center is an antifa communist Nazi out to destroy America, so we should kill them all and let Donald Trump sort it out”?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 5:51am

        Re: Re:

        They are aspiring for The Chilling Effect, where everyone is too scared to lift a finger in protection of anything thereby enabling the perpetrator to do whatever they please. This situation has many terms used throughout history, it must happen a lot. I think it happens all the time, right now even.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      ralph_the_bus_driver (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:51pm

      Re:

      Anyone that has to use youtube videos as evidence doesn't have any evidence.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 5:53am

        Re: Re:

        How does the fact that a video is found on youtube make same invalid as evidence in a court of law?

        It would be an interesting ploy to remove evidence of your transgressions simply by putting it on youtube. Brilliant!!!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:53pm

      Re:

      That last line. A masterclass in projection.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      kallethen, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:15pm

      Re:

      Seriously TD, never go full retard.

      Don't worry, TD leaves that for you.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 2:49pm

      Re:

      So, you'd cut down all the laws in America, in order to get after the "Communist terrorists."

      And when the last law was down, when the political cycle turned and your ideological opponents were in power - where would you hide, the laws all being flat?

      You should really consider giving people you don't agree with the benefit of law, if only for your own safety's sake.

      (Apologies to Robert Bolt)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 7:20pm

        Re: Re:

        Well, clearly you're all so completely subverted by socialism that posting video evidence of events is now deemed inadmissible if it challenges your ideological beliefs.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 2:03am

          Re: Re: Re:

          ...and submitted from a source known for editing videos in a misleading way to further their ideology.

          You missed the important bit at the end, thought I'd add it for you.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 9:36am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "completely subverted by socialism "

          Oh noes - everyone panic,
          there is that bad word again.

          That by its self is intended to put a shiver up your spine followed by a knee jerk reaction of revulsion because reasons.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 12:40pm

    Lawyers engage in these kinds of shenanigans all the time. It was no slip of the tongue. It was a deliberate attempt to get the jury to feel free to disregard the judge's instructions. They do the same thing all through the trial by saying things they know will result in sustained objections. It is all about psychological manipulation of the jury. She knew she would have to apologize for it, but she also knew there would probably not be a penalty. I have seen lawyers take even bigger risks (e.g. of a mistrial) just to slip an illegal instruction into the jury's ears, knowing full well the judge would smack it down. The damage is done once it is said, even if the judge tells the jury to ignore what they just heard.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:00pm

    That jury jus6t proved that we have socialists who want to overthrow the government. Business owners? It's time to arm yourselves with guns so the next time someone attempts to vandalize or destroy your property, just shoot them where they stand. This is just going to force business owners to protect their businesses, armed to the teeth.

    protesters who exercise their first amendment rights, meet the people who are exercising their second amendment rights.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:07pm

      Re:

      No gun is going to solve your sheer terror at the fact that some people were acquitted.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:25pm

      Re:

      protesters who exercise their first amendment rights, meet the people who are exercising their second amendment rights.

      There's nothing stopping those exercising their 1st amendment rights from also exercising their 2nd. Or did you not think that far enough ahead?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 5:58am

        Re: Re:

        It is of interest that I read about people who think they are afforded, via the constitution, the right to murder anyone who disagrees with them.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        JEDIDIAH, 23 Dec 2017 @ 11:54am

        Self limiting ideology.

        > There's nothing stopping those exercising their 1st amendment rights from also exercising their 2nd. Or did you not think that far enough ahead?

        Sure there is. An irrational fear of guns.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:32pm

      Re:

      Rioting is not a First Amendment protected activity. Peaceful protests are. Just because some people engaged in a riot doesn't mean you prosecute the ones who didn't.

      Good lord, who disconnected your brain from reality and shorted out the logic circuit?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 21 Dec 2017 @ 4:45pm

        Re: Rioting is not a First Amendment protected activity. Peaceful protests are.

        But when guns are involved, it becomes harder to argue that it is supposed to be “peaceful” ...

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 6:38am

          Re: Re: Rioting is not a First Amendment protected activity. Peaceful protests are.

          Guns? What guns? None of the protests during the inauguration had citizens wielding guns. Rocks yes, guns no.

          And even if some of the protesters did have guns, that is entirely beside the point because unless the 6 people who were acquitted each had their own gun and used it (remember, in most cases it isn't illegal to simply carry a gun), then they are still innocent. They committed no crime, therefore they should not be punished.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 9:40am

          Re: Re: Rioting is not a First Amendment protected activity. Peaceful protests are.

          Would that be guns in the hands of LEOs or protesters?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2017 @ 12:59am

          Re: Re: Rioting is not a First Amendment protected activity. Peaceful protests are.

          How do you sleep at night knowing a gun could jump out of your closet at any time to try to strangle you?

          Ease the grip off of your pee-shooter and allow some blood back to your big head

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:57pm

      Re:

      protesters who exercise their first amendment rights, meet the people who are exercising their second amendment rights.

      If protestors are not carrying out violent or destructive actions and you still choose to exercise a “Second Amendment remedy” over your annoyance at said protestors, what reason would you give to justify having committed murder?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 2:24pm

        Re: Re:

        Asian small-business owners got on their roofs and held off rioters during the LA riots...the we're the few that weren't looted, vandalized, nor assualted.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:10pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Hey sparky, it helps to be coherent when you make dumbass arguements. That way we know how to make fun of you. Thanks in advance!

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:15pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Not an answer to my question. If protestors are not carrying out violent or destructive actions and you still choose to exercise a “Second Amendment remedy” over your annoyance at said protestors, what reason would you give to justify having committed murder?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          OGquaker, 21 Dec 2017 @ 10:13pm

          Re: print the lies

          suuurre... a man with a gun on a roof? Suicide, or scripted.
          A few months before, a Korean shop owner was given 'Community Service' and a $fine for shooting a 15 year old black girl dead, that same week a white man got jail time for hurting his dog... reported on the same front page.

          Yes, many local stores were looted; the stores that were friendly (and gave back your change through the plastic shields) were not. The shields kept us from beating up all the overcharging clerks. Four 'Ralphs' supermarkets and Walmart have left, ever hear of a 'Food Desert'?
          At a cocktail party in Bel-Air, an insurance underwriter told me that of the 3,767 buildings that burned, 70% were owner-arson and that many buildings were started twice. One of my parishioners burned all three of his father's vacant buildings on Vermont and put his daughter into UCLA.
          We hated Samy's Camera on Melrose, thus we burned it /s.
          The future zoning 'General Plan' map matched the burn zones like a glove; Nero WAS fiddling.
          Light green I.C.E. vans were everywhere, freeway on-ramps were blocked (not off-ramps) limiting escape, LA County and citys put in curfews at sundown -except Pasadena with a large black population.
          TV News helicopters were tracking 'illegals' from above, you can tell from the special Mexican hats. 12,000 arrest were made by LAPD and about 5,000 of Bush's soldiers from the 7th & 40th Infantry Division and 1st Marine Division. Of the 63 people that died, ONE prosecution resulted. God knows how many people were 'disappeared'.
          Within the same 10 months the ONLY film on 'JFK' was released, the US invaded Iraq sending 100,000 troops around the world to shoot brown people and the 'Rodney King' footage ran 15,000 times on TV; a complete match to the 'Philadelphia police footage' of the beating of the M.O.V.E. that I saw screened at Laird Studios...
          The Highway Patrol & LAPD got to participated in Rodney's beat down; our Sheriff had their own beat-down that next week. Total social engineering:(


          Disclaimer: I have lived on Normandie since 1988, this church was 80% Korean at the time.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 2:35am

            Re: Re: print the lies

            Goddamn

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 2:38am

            Re: Re: print the lies

            Wooo I’ve been high! But I’ve never ever been as high as you are. Good lord man, you should be writing for the wing nut daily with access to the finest prescription drugs and an imagination like that

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:25pm

    venue

    The venue of any trial can make a huge difference. It should not surprise us that a jury from D.C., which voted overwhelmingly against Trump, would be sympathetic toward anti-Trump protesters.

    Had the protesters been hit with federal charges and tried across the river, in one of those conservative Northern Virginia counties with an extraordinarily high conviction rate, the outcome could very well have turned out much differently.

    It might be worth noting that on the other end of the political spectrum, Bundy Militia "protesters" were also acquitted.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:31pm

      Re: venue

      It should not surprise us that a jury from D.C., which voted overwhelmingly against Trump, would be sympathetic toward anti-Trump protesters.

      Everyone needs to be sorry that they ruined his day. I mean, he lost the popular vote, had a shitty crowd, it rained, protests, and now this.

      Poor, poor man.

      conservative Northern Virginia counties with an extraordinarily high conviction rate

      Yeah! Put them in jail! Gitmo, even!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 6:07am

      Re: venue

      "would be sympathetic toward anti-Trump protesters"

      The court is supposed to protect all citizens, not just those with whom you agree. The court is "sympathetic" to those who have had their rights violated - regardless of their political positions. Why is this so difficult for some to understand?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:37pm

    They've all gone mad!

    Good grief! What's with all the insanity in the comments coming out against the result of this case? **There is video evidence proving that they did not partake in the riots from start to finish, making them innocent.**

    The jury made the right call, you don't commit a crime, you don't go to jail. How hard is that to understand?

    What is wrong with you people?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:43pm

      Re: They've all gone mad!

      What is wrong with you people?

      Trump had to deal with losing the popular vote, a turnout less than Obama's, rain, and protests on a day when he just wanted to feel special. In short, his little feelings were hurt, and his supporters are upset that they can't put some innocent people in jail to make him feel better.

      They're butthurt that so many people think he's an asshole, and want some payback. That's what's wrong with them. Anger with nowhere to channel it.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 1:59pm

        Re: Re: They've all gone mad!

        I think my statement still stands, what is wrong with these people?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 2:13pm

          Re: Re: Re: They've all gone mad!

          Impotent rage build up.
          Petty desire for control.

          Basically, the worst possible combination of armchair lawyer and homeowner association president.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 6:10am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: They've all gone mad!

            and then they throw a tantrum similar to that of a two year old in the candy isle being denied a sweet or two .. or three .... all of the candy - I want it all!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:05pm

    Oh look

    more moronic fighting over the Constitution by two sides that seek to destroy it!

    The R's and the D's don't always agree on HOW to destroy the Constitution but they damn sure agree on destroying it SOMEHOW!

    These people should have obviously been acquitted.
    The lawyers being held in contempt is a tricky one. Sure the judge can instruct the Jury but there is no legal requirement for the Jury to act like a puppet on a string for either the Judge, the Prosecution, or the defense.

    Jury Nullification is the principal that jurors are seeking to render a "not guilty" verdict because they believe that the law in question is either "unjust on its face" or "unjust in application in this specific instance"

    Yes the entire legal community does not want you know about it because their life blood revolves around tricking jurors into thinking they can only judge a defendant by the law and not on principal.

    If jurors were only intended to judge by the law, then we would not need jurors, any Judge can create the same injustice and tyranny against the people, just faster.

    http://fija.org/

    Thomas Jefferson wrote, “I consider [trial by jury] as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.”

    In short the Father of the Constitution clearly indicated that "The Jury" is your most sacred and honorable duty you can perform for your fellow citizens. When government tries to oppress you with tyrannical law then it is up to your fellow citizens to come to your aid.

    Well... good luck with that... based on the back and forth I frequently see at TD none of you understand shit!

    Every Nation gets the government it deserves! Stop voting in incumbent that have done wrong, avoid political parties and force candidates to come out into the light instead of hiding behind their party and politics.

    If you are pissed off at the other guys for being corrupt, clean your own house first!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:13pm

      Re: Oh look

      You managed to shart our something other than George Washingtons farewell address. Congratulations! It has fuck all to do with the topic at hand, but progress is progress I suppose.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 3:15pm

        Re: Re: Oh look

        "It has fuck all to do with the topic at hand, but progress is progress I suppose."

        So a comment about Thomas Jefferson talking about jury has fuck all to do with the topic here, about a Jury rendering a not guilty verdict?

        I think you have just proven a point I mentioned earlier...

        "based on the back and forth I frequently see at TD none of you understand shit!"

        You don't understand shit, but you sure do seem to be full of it!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 4:46pm

      Re: Oh look

      based on the back and forth I frequently see at TD none of you understand shit

      By all means, educate us on the finer points of fecal theory, sir.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 6:13am

      Re: Oh look

      "If you are pissed off at the other guys for being corrupt, clean your own house first!"

      Oh yeah - that'll fix everything

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 5:23pm

    6 done, 200+ left to go.
    On a long enough timeline, they will finally find a jury who thinks protesting is just like shooting up a school.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      icon
      MyNameHere (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 5:33pm

      Re:

      Or they will convince the jury that shooting up a school is just a form of first amendment protesting!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Stephen T. Stone (profile), 21 Dec 2017 @ 5:54pm

        Re: Re:

        Murder is not protected by the First Amendment.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 Dec 2017 @ 7:13pm

        Re: Re:

        People getting acquitted based on the First Amendment just grinds your gears, doesn't it?

        Would you like to demand that police shoot anyone wearing a motorcycle helmet? Or maybe without, too. You've already proven that you don't need to wear or hold a damn thing for the police to justify gunning you down...

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 1:18am

          Re: Re: Re:

          He mentioned dark clothing as a reason to suspect someone might be showing up for a fight in a previous thread. I have no doubt from that thread that he does indeed think that covering your face is worthy of summary execution.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 6:15am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Trick or treaters beware!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
            icon
            MyNameHere (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 6:31am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Hi Paul, you are a moron.

            I said that dressing in a manner that made it clear they were looking for a fight and looking not to be identified was an issue. Padding, dark clothing, gas masks or ski goggles...

            Like I said, I guess it's okay to do whatever you like as long as your record it and call it "news".

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 7:25am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              No, you're a moron. People can dress however they want, there are no laws against it (aside from indecent exposure, even then that's only if you are out in public, in private there is no law).

              I took my car to the mechanic one day when I was in college. I had a 17" laptop and all my books stuffed in my backup so it was very large. On that particular day I happened to wear jeans and a black zip up hoodie (the hood was down if you must know). While standing at the counter waiting for the mechanic, a guy in the waiting room spoke up and said "You got a pressure cooker bomb in there? You going to blow us all up?" I was not amused.

              Are we all supposed to now avoid wearing jeans and black hoodies because we could be mistaken for another Boston Marathon bomber? That is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

              Even if they were wearing full combat fatigues it still means nothing because you know what? Off-duty military personnel are easy to spot in public because many times they wear their BDU's in public.

              And ski goggles? Really? Oh the horror!

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 7:37am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              I said that dressing in a manner that made it clear they were looking for a fight and looking not to be identified was an issue.

              How does one’s clothing identify them as looking for a fight, especially if that clothing bears no symbols or text that would say as much?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                MyNameHere (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 8:10pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                They wore protective clothing to (a) make it harder to identify them, and (b) to protect them from tear gas and anything thrown by others, to protect against police batons, etc. They went there ready for a fight.

                Oh, and if there wasn't one, they seemed also prepared to create it.

                At the very least, they were prepared to protect themselves because they knew what was going to happen. They wanted it to happen, because without it, the video would have been useless. Reporting on peaceful protests doesn't get you views on YouFaceGram.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 1:54am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "and (b) to protect them from tear gas and anything thrown by others, to protect against police batons, etc."

                  Is this because they were a) looking for a fight or b) know that authoritarian thugs have a history of hitting and/or tear gassing peaceful protesters with no provocation, and no matter how important their cause would like to get home to their family in one piece after the day?

                  Your bootlicking ass insists only a) can be true, intelligent people know that b) is very much the real answer.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 5:49am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  They wore protective clothing to (a) make it harder to identify them, and (b) to protect them from tear gas and anything thrown by others, to protect against police batons, etc.

                  A person out in public has no legal obligation to make themselves identifiable unless a city or state has a law against masks. And despite my rather limited imagination these days, even I can imagine why people would wear protective clothing to a protest held in a country with a history of LEOs breaking up completely peaceful protests with water hoses, police dogs, and pepper spray.

                  They went there ready for a fight. Oh, and if there wasn't one, they seemed also prepared to create it.

                  Your argument amounts to mere speculation that every person who wore protective clothing at that protest-turned-riot was there just to take part in violent acts. You could have argued that some people wearing such clothing were there to start a riot—that, I could believe. But saying “they were all there to riot” without a shred a proof to back that sentence up makes you sound willing to convict someone of a crime based only on how they were dressed.

                  At the very least, they were prepared to protect themselves because they knew what was going to happen.

                  That proves they committed a crime…how, exactly? I mean, we could assume they knew with the certainty of God that the protest would turn into a riot. But how would their being prepared for either the riot or the police response prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they went to the protest with the sole intent to either start or participate in a riot?

                  They wanted it to happen, because without it, the video would have been useless. Reporting on peaceful protests doesn't get you views on YouFaceGram.

                  Not everyone does things for a hit count, you know. And a videographer being there, no matter where he came from, does not prove intent to either start or take part in a riot.

                  Your entire argument rests on conjecture and assumptions that you cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt. You have no argument. All you have is the wailing of a whiny asshole who thinks he is 100% right all the time. (You are not.) I do not know with absolute certainty whether the people who were acquitted in this case went there just to protest. But at least I have the common sense to admit that I lack the certainty of God.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 9:47am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "They wore protective clothing ............... "

                  Are you describing LEOs? Guess they went there looking for a fight huh. They must get depressed when they can not bash a few heads in, so they start the ruckus themselves.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 8:05am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Like I said, I guess it's okay to do whatever you like as long as your record it and call it "news".

              Well, if they were actually convicted of something, you might have a point.

              They weren't, so you don't.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 8:10am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Said the guy who thinks there's some context to why a cop is permitted to shoot a fleeing, naked, unarmed human in the back out of fear for his life...

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              PaulT (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 9:03am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "I said that dressing in a manner that made it clear they were looking for a fight and looking not to be identified was an issue. Padding, dark clothing, gas masks or ski goggles... "

              So, you admit that you believe that wearing dark clothing is a reason to be suspicious of someone's motives then criticise me for accurately stating that's what you did? Hmmm...

              It's also notable that most of the things you list, where they have any utility in a fight, are *defensive* - i.e. protecting yourself when you go against the jackbooted thugs. Which, as I noted previously, goes directly against your claim that they are looking to attack someone. No, it means they know that things happen and they don't wish to be unprotected if it does.

              If someone wears a helmet and leathers when riding a motorcycle, it means they are defending themselves against injury in case something happens, whereas you apparently think it means they wish to crash into the next vehicle they see...

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                MyNameHere (profile), 22 Dec 2017 @ 8:14pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Yes, and wearing flame retardant clothing and an insulation suit means you are protected against fire. it doesn't mean you can burn buildings down and stand in them to prove it.

                The defense notion is silly. If you think there is going to be a riot and you are likely to get injured, why go?

                Normal every day walking down the street shouldn't need protective gear. Going to a riot with intent to film it and get famous on YouFaceGram... well yeah.

                Give it another shot, and try to miss the point again. It's funny when you do that!

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  PaulT (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 1:18am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "it doesn't mean you can burn buildings down and stand in them to prove it."

                  It also doesn't mean you can attack them for being arsonists until they actually try something. Your thick skull is almost accepting some true information, keep at it!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Stephen T. Stone (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 6:30am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  If you think there is going to be a riot and you are likely to get injured, why go?

                  No one can guarantee that a protest will turn into a riot. Being prepared for the possibility, however, seems like a smart move.

                  Normal every day walking down the street shouldn't need protective gear.

                  A protest is not “normal everyday walking down the street”. Even you should know and admit that.

                  Going to a riot with intent to film it and get famous on YouFaceGram... well yeah.

                  That guy went to a protest so he could film it. What proof do you have that he either started a riot or knew, with absolute certainty, when and where a riot was going to happen?

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 7:38am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    A protest is not “normal everyday walking down the street”. Even you should know and admit that.

                    It's like the fucker thinks that having anything protected is, by his own terms, not normal.

                    Normal driving shouldn't require a driver to lock his car. Normal wallets shouldn't allow people to carry amounts of money they withdrew from their own bank account. Normal fashion shouldn't catch the eye of suspected sexual harassers.

                    MyNameHere is taking his favorite "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" maxim to his usual extreme applications. Because obviously only the police knows what's best and are permitted to fuck up as many times as it takes to keep the plebeians and serfs in line.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 9:50am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  I must have missed the part where those acquitted were found to be wearing protective clothing.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    JEDIDIAH, 23 Dec 2017 @ 11:59am

                    Re:

                    So when it's someone you don't agree with politically, you won't hold it against them for wearing the same kinds of protective equipment or carrying shields?

                    Something tells me I would be better off trusting a Nigerian prince.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 1:27pm

                      Re: Re:

                      So when it's someone you don't agree with politically, you won't hold it against them for wearing the same kinds of protective equipment or carrying shields?

                      If they have protective equipment only as a precaution against potential violence? I would find that acceptable.

                      If they have protective equipment but try to provoke bystanders into violence as an excuse for using that equipment as a weapon? That is not cool.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 2:49pm

                      Re: Re:

                      What protective clothing was the journalist wearing?
                      - A coat of some sort? Was it cold outside?

                      What protective clothing were the medics wearing?
                      - Were they on duty? Was the ambulance their "get away car" ?

                      This silliness about being responsible for the actions of others simply because you were in proximity ... is bullshit. In addition, such cases seem to be discriminatory.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  The Wanderer (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 12:47pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  If you think there is going to be a riot and you are likely to get injured, why go?

                  One possible reason: because you think the protest (which you think might develop into violence, which might be targeted against you), and/or the issue being protested, is important enough to be worth taking the risk of getting injured.

                  The decision process may be tipped in favor of going if you know that you can at least reduce the risk of injury, even if violence against your side does break out - say, by wearing protective clothing.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 9:18am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Holy cow... you are right.
              I knew there was something suspicious going on.
              I keep seeing these "people" with big hats pulled down over their ears, fake glasses and big fake beards, making it impossible to identify them.
              At the same time they have stuffed fake bellies so you can't even get a good impression of their build in those large red suits... red as blood.
              Yet people are so blind to the threat and they keep sending their own children over to these obviously violent and delinquent terrorists.

              Just in case: /S

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2017 @ 3:55pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              So people who ride motercycles are looking for a fight according to your dumb ass. See it’s shit like this, is why people don’t take you seriously around here.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          JEDIDIAH, 23 Dec 2017 @ 11:58am

          Re: Re: Re:

          > People getting acquitted based on the First Amendment just grinds your gears, doesn't it?

          If it's for anything except speaking or protesting, sure. The First Amendment isn't supposed to shield people from the consequences of violent crime. It's very trendy to threaten political opponents with violence these days. Liberals are making the loudest noises in this area.

          Makes it embarassing to be a liberal.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Stephen T. Stone (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 12:22pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Now now, Nazis are not “political opponents”.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              The Wanderer (profile), 23 Dec 2017 @ 12:50pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Not unless they're running for office, at least - preferably on the Nazi platform.

              And while I believe we _have_ had National Socialist Party members running for office on the Nazi platform in the United States of America, I don't recall having seen it happen during my lifetime - and certainly not in an election where the Nazi candidate had any meaningful chance of winning.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2017 @ 2:51pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Can't see the forest for the trees huh.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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