As Predicted: Encryption Haters Are Already Blaming Snowden (?!?) For The Paris Attacks

from the shut-up dept

It really was less than two months ago that we noted that, having lost the immediate battle for US legislation to backdoor encryption, those in the intelligence community knew they just needed to bide their time until the next big terrorist attack. Here was the quote from Robert Litt -- the top lawyer for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence from September:
Although “the legislative environment is very hostile today,” the intelligence community’s top lawyer, Robert S. Litt, said to colleagues in an August e-mail, which was obtained by The Post, “it could turn in the event of a terrorist attack or criminal event where strong encryption can be shown to have hindered law enforcement.”
Well, as you already know, on Friday there was a tragic and horrifying terrorist attack in France that killed over 100 people. And it took basically no time at all for defenders of the surveillance state to start... blaming Snowden and encryption? It started with the usual talking heads, such as former George W. Bush press secretary and current Fox News commentator, Dana Perino, who seriously seemed to blame Snowden for the attacks based on... who knows what.
And then there was her Fox News colleague Greg Gutfeld, speculating that the attacks may have been planned in secret thanks to "whistleblowers."
Robert Litt must have been smiling. And then, he was helped along even further by the stenographers at the NY Times, who reported over the weekend that the attackers "used encryption technology" based entirely on anonymous "European officials."
The attackers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology, according to European officials who had been briefed on the investigation but were not authorized to speak publicly. It was not clear whether the encryption was part of widely used communications tools, like WhatsApp, which the authorities have a hard time monitoring, or something more elaborate. Intelligence officials have been pressing for more leeway to counter the growing use of encryption.
Here's the link to that article, but as I type this, it now shows the following:
Perhaps the NY Times realized that publishing such rampant speculation without confirmation meant that they were getting played like fiddles by the intelligence community in their game to undermine encryption. Either way, the original article is available (for now) at the Internet Archive. Update: The NY Times is now redirecting the original link to a general link about the Paris attacks, not the specific story they originally had about the evils of the attackers using encryption. As far as I can tell, there's still been no explanation.

No matter what, the argument is pure bullshit. Of course they probably used encryption, because lots of people use encryption to communicate, and there's no way in hell that they suddenly decided to use encryption "because Snowden." As Glenn Greenwald has helpfully chronicled, the press has noted that terrorists have known to use encryption to avoid having their communications spied upon since before 9/11. Here's just one example in an article stuffed with many, many more:
The idea that it was suddenly because of Snowden's revelations that the attackers decided to communicate via encryption defies all common sense, and anyone making that suggestion seems to be publicly displaying a near total ignorance on history -- most likely for political gain. Meanwhile, the speculation over how the attackers communicated has led some to claim (without any evidence to support it) that they may have been communicating via the PlayStation 4. I'm pretty damn sure that the PS4 does not include end-to-end encryption, so even if that does turn out to be true, it would seem to undermine the earlier claims of encryption being the problem. Update: And, as expected, the guy who made the original "they communicated via PS4" claims is now walking back that story....

The real point, though: if you want to communicate secretly, there is always some way to do it. To blame leaks from just a couple of years ago on the fact that people planning to commit mass murder try to communicate secretly is flat out ridiculous and is nothing more than fear mongering to score political points.

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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 2:18am

    When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...

    Also, F Snowden. F him to you know where and back.
    — Dana Perino (@DanaPerino)


    People are dead, and do they care? Do they offer sympathy to the friends and family of those that died? Hell no, screw them, it's time to use the opportunity to score some points! Who cares about corpses, there's soundbites to be made!

    Too 'delicate' to spell out the word 'fuck', but they have no problem using the dead, and the pain and suffering of others for their own personal gain. Lovely sensibilities they've got there.

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    • icon
      Vidiot (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:59am

      Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...

      Maybe the "F" stands for Fox. Use it as a verb... Fox you too, Dana. Fits perfectly.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Frank Fota, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:13am

      Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...

      Too delicate to use your real name?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:16am

      Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...

      IT's the same kind of stupidity that made some of the Mizzou protesters claim that this horror show detracts from their protests. IT's a sickening phenomenon on top of a horrific event.

      And these cunts have forgotten that they actually have a modicum of empathy for their fellow man and womman.

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  • identicon
    Glenn, 16 Nov 2015 @ 3:47am

    More proof that the last place one should go looking for "intelligence" is in the intelligence community.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 3:59am

    Encryption has become the prime excuse for when the Intelligence community fail to keep track of known extremists and/or radicalised people that have come to their attention.

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    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:09am

      Re:

      Well I mean can you blame them, the US spy agencies have a good 300 million or so potential terrorists to keep watch on, while the French spy agencies have a solid 66 million or so potential terrorists to watch, so it's hardly surprising that some would slip through the cracks.

      I mean, I suppose you could argue that if they weren't conducting indiscriminate spying on everyone, and only focused on those that have demonstrated actual ill-intent they might be able to focus their attention on real threats, instead of imaginary ones, but obviously that idea is just absurd, as the general populous isn't going to spy on itself.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:04am

    Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

    The surveillance state is never able to find out about these attacks before they happen. They only make excuses afterward. Maybe instead of spying on the entire population of the US and Europe, they should concentrate on actual terrorists? They are too busy wasting their time with people who do little more than break a few traffic laws on their way to work that they are unable to actually do real investigative work into the real threats.

    In short, if they build less haystacks and concentrate on looking into the right haystacks, they might have a chance.

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    • icon
      Richard (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:42am

      Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

      The surveillance state is never able to find out about these attacks before they happen.

      A little knowledge of history might help - eg 13 Nov 1918

      The fall of the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire.

      An obvious "hotspot" for Isis activity.

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    • icon
      nasch (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:00am

      Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

      Maybe instead of spying on the entire population of the US and Europe, they should concentrate on actual terrorists?

      I don't think they know how to do that. Not being tongue in cheek, to me it really looks like all they know how to do is "collect it all" and then sit on it. And of course the FBI is good at creating terrorism plots. But finding actual terrorists? That seems to be beyond their capabilities.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:48am

        Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

        It's actually about fear and greed. The people in charge don't understand what's going on and it frightens them. Rather than higher people who understand the technology and can figure out what to do, they just do what they can understand and get really big budgets to do. The fact that it's not working is obviously the fault of the nerds and geeks. But that's okay so long as their budgets remain big.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:25am

      Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

      I wouldn't be surprised if they had warehouses full of seized dictionaries. "We've got all the evidence we need, we just have to rearrange the words a little bit."

      (Sorry, old joke, but disturbingly plausible.)

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    • identicon
      Javier, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:37am

      Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

      Hmm that depends. I don't know if it's implemented but I assume they are working towards it. That is a Machine to monitor this haystack data. Have you seen the show Person of Interest? Something like that would require a massive computer, a few very smart people, and a couple billion dollars.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:10am

        Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

        The big problem is false problems, and I would bet their are more aspiring authors and would be games writers researching for a terrorist plot than their are actual terrorists.

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      • icon
        Ben S (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:38pm

        Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

        Speaking of Person of Interest, there was a quote in there that I thought was interesting.

        "Any exploit is a total exploit. The tiniest crack becomes a flood." said by Finch, when his partner wanted to build a backdoor into the machine before it went online.

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    • identicon
      orionsune, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:13am

      Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption

      Because surveillance was never really about preventing terrorism. It is only the latest excuse.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:05am

    I guess this means even the terrorists don't use XBOX1

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  • icon
    cypherspace (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:07am

    They're also blaming video game [consoles]. As for the archived NYT article, that newspaper has had a long history of transcribing government-approved stenography (see Miller, Judy).

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:50am

      Re:

      Or just sitting on anything that the government tells them to.
      (see James "What does a guy have to do, publish a book?" Risen)

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  • identicon
    avideogameplayer, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:15am

    The problem is that the spy agencies are playing poker while everyone else is playing hide and seek...

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  • identicon
    David, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:19am

    Intelligence agencies and their pawns circling the carrion

    Nothing new here. Of course, France has the most pervasive snooping laws in place already. Which did not stop politicians and "intelligence" officials in Germany calling for stopping civil rights considerations and adopting snooping and communication retention like in France.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:23am

    Encryption IS to blame

    Of course encryption is to blame for Islamic terrorism - the Quran is encrypted in Arabic - and none in the so called "intelligence service" understand it!

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    • icon
      techflaws (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:46am

      Re: Encryption IS to blame

      Apparently even believers seem to have quite different understandings of what's written in there.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:19am

        Re: Re: Encryption IS to blame

        Which is why most of them don't bother - and accept whatever the Imam says it says - consequently we have some Muslims who are horrified at these events and say that they can't be anything to do with Islam (the version they have heard that is) and others who have heard a different story from a different Imam.

        Just to make things worse the order of it is scrambled - it is not even roughly chronological. A decoded version is here.
        http://www.koran-at-a-glance.com/

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 11:04pm

      Re: Encryption IS to blame

      And those terrorists don't understand it either

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:42am

    Let's review, briefly

    14 years of ever-increasing surveillance
    14 years with trillions of dollars in intelligence spending
    14 years with trillions of dollars in military spending
    14 years of torture and kidnapping
    14 years of drone strikes
    14 years of Guantanamo
    14 years of crushed civil liberties
    14 years of massive profits for defense/security contractors

    And yet the western world's intelligence forces were unable to detect and prevent a poorly-planned and ineffective attack carried out by under-equipped amateurs. (If they were professional soldiers, heavily-armed, and better organized, then there would be thousands dead, not hundreds.)

    Of course those on whose watch this happened will never, ever, EVER admit that this happened because they failed. Again. Instead they'll redouble their efforts toward the same tactics...never realizing and certainly never wanting to admit that you cannot fight the symptoms of terrorism, you must address its root causes. And in this case, sadly, the root causes trace back to the manipulation of the Middle East by western governments for their own ends. They created this monster and only now are they beginning to understand that it can and will turn on its creators.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:11am

      Re: Let's review, briefly

      And in this case, sadly, the root causes trace back to the manipulation of the Middle East by western governments for their own ends. They created this monster and only now are they beginning to understand that it can and will turn on its creators.

      I think they are aware of your interpretation here - and part of the reason for their failure is that it is also wrong (or at best only a fraction of the truth). To understand what is really going on one needs to go further back in time - much further.

      Islam had a dynamic of violent conquest from day one (in their calendar,c620 in ours)

      From that time till around 1700 the west mostly opposed this expansion. However at that time the Ottoman empire started to fall significantly behind the west( technically ) and ceased to be a significant threat. From then on various Western countries (notably Britain and France) started using the Ottomans as a pawn in their own games of power politics. Thus the "sick man of Europe" was propped up to prevent the expansion of Russia and, in its death throes was allowed to ethnically cleanse substantial proportions of its territory (only part of which constituted the Armenian Genocide). The resulting displacement of peoples added to the tensions of the region.

      In the subsequent breakup of the empire artificial countries were created and when their initial (puppet) rulers became unpopular the memory of Ottoman failure was still alive and so they were overthrown by Arab nationalists (who looked to the west as a model) rather than Islamists.

      Thus after the first world war the fundamentalist party within Islam slept - until it was woken by oil money in the 1970s. At that point the old 7th century version of Islam was promoted and the Arab nationalists were forced to become more and more draconian to keep the lid on it.

      One by one they have fallen - and we have had the stupidity to indirectly assist this process -which I guess is your point. However I think it would have happened anyway.

      Probably the worst mistakes were those of the 19th century. Russia should have been allowed to liberate the region from Ottoman rule and consequently there would be far less Islam in the region (and worldwide) now.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:03am

        Re: Re: Let's review, briefly

        Russia should have been allowed to liberate the region from Ottoman rule and consequently there would be far less Islam in the region (and worldwide) now.

        Such an expansion would have had little impact on Islam, as the Russian stans, (Kazakhstan,Kyrgyzstan,Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan) still have strong Muslim communities.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:41am

          Re: Re: Re: Let's review, briefly

          Such an expansion would have had little impact on Islam, as the Russian stans,still have strong Muslim communities.

          But these mostly do not seem to have swallowed the Iskamist agenda to the same extent.

          Also the region in question had a very different population profile in the 19th century from today.
          Muslims may have ruled the Ottoman Empire but they were not the overwhlelming majority. Had other groups been empowered at the time then these regions would resemble more Bulgaria/ Romania.

          There would be other consequences too.

          Possibly Alaska would still be part of Russia (fallout from the Crimean war was part of the reason for the sale).

          Also it would have upset the timeline of history leading to the assassination of Alexander II. If he had lived longer then reforms he had in train might well have averted the revolution.
          Removal of the Ottomans from the equation might well have averted WW1 so all bets are off...

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    • identicon
      David, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:19am

      Re: Let's review, briefly

      Of course those on whose watch this happened will never, ever, EVER admit that this happened because they failed.

      The problem is that this happened not because they failed, but because they succeeded.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:04am

        Re: Re: Let's review, briefly

        If I may add a companion to this comment:

        ...never realizing and certainly never wanting to admit that you cannot fight the symptoms of terrorism, you must address its root causes.

        I think they realize it completely. Fighting the symptoms is job security. Finding a cure is anathema to the need for organizational self-preservation.

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  • identicon
    privatefrazer, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:44am

    by Encryption they probably mean French

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    • identicon
      USA, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:04pm

      Re: by Encryption they probably mean French

      From here on out, all communications shall be in plain English. If what you want to say can't be said in plain English, you probably shouldn't be saying it!

      s

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  • icon
    techflaws (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:45am

    a poorly-planned and ineffective attack carried out by under-equipped amateurs.

    Ineffective how? They plan to seed fear among 'infidels'
    and to make people be afraid they might be hit next whereever they are. Do you think the Paris attacks make this more or less likely?

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:04am

      Re:

      "ineffective" in two senses.

      First, in a military one. Attempting to get a bomb into the soccer game via the security checkpoint was quite stupid, and it was only one of the tactical errors made. Competent military tacticians would have caught most or all of those errors during the planning stage.

      Second, in a political one. Putin's statement of expressed cooperation was not something they wanted to provoke, as IS exists in the nebulous no-man's-land created by the disagreements of major powers. If those disagreements disappear, then so does the space for them to exist. I think this was a miscalculation on their part.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:25am

        Re: Re:

        IS exists in the nebulous no-man's-land created by the disagreements of major powers. If those disagreements disappear, then so does the space for them to exist.

        Exactly - unfortunately this has been true of Islam to some extent throughout it's history. It was born into the no man's land between the Byzantine and Persian empires survived the middle ages in the no- mans land between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholics - spent the 19th century in the no-man's land between Britan, France and Russia and grew again in the no-man's land within the cold war!

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  • icon
    Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:45am

    Not a double-standard at all

    Aren't these assholes using a terrible and violent event involving guns as an excuse to curtail constitutionally protected freedoms the same assholes who usually rail endlessly against anyone daring to suggest limiting another one when mass shootings happen domestically?

    Maybe they're not.... Hypocritical US media assholes start looking kinda similar from a distance...

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  • icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:49am

    They have surveillance covering nearly everyone, to keep us safe. Rather than admit that grab it all isn't working, they find something to blame.

    Oh it is encryption, because only bad people use encryption...
    not people who live in actual dictatorships who will be murdered for expressing an unapproved idea
    not people who live in 'Merika who have seen the special attention given to those who pretend they still have the rights we were given
    not people who don't want to look like the morons at the CIA who keep classified documents on a fucking AOL account a high teenager can access

    For every bit of privacy they have taken from all of us, despite all of the claims of keeping us safe...
    THEY CAN'T DO WHAT THEY PROMISED, BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!
    Stop giving them air to suck up and spin to get more power.
    Stop coddling citizens, the world is a scary place but you will NEVER be 100% safe.
    Stop sowing more terror to gain more power, because you really are becoming those you claim hate us for our freedom... because you keep taking it away like they want to.

    Something horrible happened in the world, and every second the media pays any attention to the spin is wasted.

    We don't need to have the 3000000 word deep dig into those you think might have done it or why.
    What we need is to be able to grieve for the loss of people taken in a pissing contest between 2 sides who just want more power for themselves not to keep the pawns in the game safe.
    We are expendable if it gets them something more. They jumped on blaming everything but their own failure, only mentioning in passing (to frighten us small children) those people who died because the illusion of protection we gave our rights up for doesn't always work.

    Oh encryption cause this!! Not our years of failed policies playing world police basing decisions on what pundits think is right, not informed people. We set these wheels in motion, and they are running at high speed. Perhaps we should consider our answers so far haven't been the right ones, and staying that course will result in more tragedy.

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    • icon
      Richard (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:30am

      Re:

      Stop coddling citizens, the world is a scary place but you will NEVER be 100% safe.
      Stop sowing more terror to gain more power


      Exactly. Tony Balir passed a bill that outlawed "Glorification of Terrorism", blindly oblivious to the irony that this bill itself was the biggest piece of such glorification around!

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      • icon
        Richard (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:32am

        Re: Re:

        Funny isn't it - that in Europe and America we have to give up our freedom to save our lives - whereas in Iraq we were quite happy cause great loss of life in the name of freedom!

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        • identicon
          AJ, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:53am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "Funny isn't it - that in Europe and America we have to give up our freedom to save our lives - whereas in Iraq we were quite happy cause great loss of life in the name of freedom!"

          Nicely said. I may quote you the next time I argue the 2nd.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 4:58am

    Attempting to score cheap political points whilst riding upon the coat tails of terror ... why am I not surprised? It's almost as if they planned it themselves.

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  • identicon
    Capt ICE Enforcer, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:17am

    Next level

    I offer our my heart felt sadness to all those who were affected by this terrible event. And now, based upon high level government sources from around the world who currently are not able to brief the public. The bad people that did bad things did not use encryption but instead used the next level of advanced anti surveillance techniques of substituting words with different words. This technique has been used by women for years. For example.

    Man- Hey babe, I am going to go drink a beer with my friends tonight, is that okay with you.

    Woman- Of course my love, go have fun.

    After sophisticated translation- Oh hell no, if he leaves I am going to be pissed off. How dare he even ask.

    Now the computer is still struggling to piece the rest together, as it shows only 9% complete.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:23am

    Also, F Dana Perino. F her to you know where and back.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:39am

    yes, i shuddered a bit the other day when the fbi guy said that basically it's up to the people to decide if we want to be rats in a trap. thought at the time the guy spoke with an absolute wink in his verbal eye.

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:39am

    Snowden is a hero! Letting our enemies know our secrets is a great thing. No bad can ever come of it, because, reasons. And encryption is great. All of our enemies should use it all the time. Also, they should stop looking for that getaway driver from the Paris attacks. People should be able to help other people commit crimes. It's the bestest thing, and it shouldn't be discouraged. I don't believe in accomplice liability. We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers. They're doing good work.

    /Mike Logic

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:11am

      Re:

      Snowden is a hero! Letting our enemies know our secrets is a great thing. No bad can ever come of it, because, reasons. And encryption is great. All of our enemies should use it all the time. Also, they should stop looking for that getaway driver from the Paris attacks. People should be able to help other people commit crimes. It's the bestest thing, and it shouldn't be discouraged. I don't believe in accomplice liability. We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers. They're doing good work.

      /Coward Logic

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Nov 2015 @ 6:08am

        Re: Re:

        you are aware that encryption is nothing more than math???

        And "MATH" is great.
        All of our enemies should use it all the time...
        People should be able to help other people commit "MATH".

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:57am

      Re:

      Did you have those blinders custom fit or do they chafe?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:51am

      Re:

      Log back in, Whatever. You're not fooling anyone.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Howard, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:42am

      Re: [#30]

      I gave you a lol. Because you were being sarcastic, right?

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    • icon
      Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:46am

      Re:

      Letting our enemies know our secrets is a great thing.

      What secrets did he reveal, other than that the NSA was spying on americans without warrants?

      And encryption is great.

      It is. And I assume you agree, seeing as you're posting anonymously.

      All of our enemies should use it all the time.

      No. Everyone should use it because it protects your privacy. Or are you willing to post your bank account info here?

      Also, they should stop looking for that getaway driver from the Paris attacks.

      Hello idiotic leap in logic.

      People should be able to help other people commit crimes. It's the bestest thing, and it shouldn't be discouraged

      Huh?

      I don't believe in accomplice liability.

      I do, so...

      We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers. They're doing good work.

      Get help.

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        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:42am

        Re: Re:

        What secrets did he reveal, other than that the NSA was spying on americans without warrants?

        Um, he revealed the extent to which the government monitors for terrorism. That info would be pretty handy, if you're a terrorist.

        It is. And I assume you agree, seeing as you're posting anonymously.

        So my choosing to post anonymously on your boards means that I think encryption is great? I don't see the connection. I think there are pros and cons to anonymity and encryption. You seem to think more is better.

        No. Everyone should use it because it protects your privacy. Or are you willing to post your bank account info here?

        Sure. It's Capital One Bank, account number 2044623568. Have at it. Again, though, you seem to think more privacy is better. I think there are pros and cons.

        Hello idiotic leap in logic.

        Nothing idiotic about it. In other contexts, you deplore third-party liability. Why wouldn't you deplore it here?

        I do, so...

        You do? Can you point to single time you agreed that someone other than the party directly committing the wrong should be held accountable?

        Get help.

        Just having some fun. You're the one supposedly with the abundance of ideas, even though you have a very closed mind about so many things.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:08pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Sure. It's Capital One Bank, account number 2044623568. Have at it. Again, though, you seem to think more privacy is better. I think there are pros and cons.
          Not that that's not enough, but we're talking about completely unencrypted online communication. You need to post the username and password you use to access your account. Don't worry about anything else, we can look it up ourselves.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:13pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Um, he revealed the extent to which the government monitors for terrorism. That info would be pretty handy, if you're a terrorist.
          "A shitload" isn't exactly of strategic value. About the only thing Snowden told terrorists was "You were right, just a little fear is enough to make us destroy ourselves."

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:13pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Sure. It's Capital One Bank, account number 2044623568.

          Umm, you forgot to post the details: Full name, billing address, associated SSN, PIN, etc.

          Anxiously awaiting the details, provided you aren't full of shit.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:26pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Umm, you forgot to post the details: Full name, billing address, associated SSN, PIN, etc.

            Anxiously awaiting the details, provided you aren't full of shit.


            You're missing the point. Just because some privacy is good, that doesn't mean more privacy is always better. Mike sees things in black and white, when reality is much more gray.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:43pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              You're missing the point. Just because some privacy is good, that doesn't mean more privacy is always better.

              Oh, I see. Kind of like "My privacy is good. Yours is not." Thanks for clearing that up.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:50pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Another black and white thinker, I see.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 1:07pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Have you ever noticed how governments do not want their citizens to have any privacy, but desire to keep most of their dealing and actions secret despite FOI laws?
                  S/He was just reflecting the approach of governments to privacy, its just they use state secrets to protect their privacy.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 1:41pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  We're talking about encryption. It is black and white. Either everyone can use it, or everyone is compromised. Anything else is asking for magical golden keys that open a secret back door that only the good guys can access, and the reasons that that won't work have already been covered ad infinitum.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  techflaws (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:54pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Says the guy who pretends he has given the info the people asked for to make a point. No, that just doesn't fly.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 1:39pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          >Nothing idiotic about it. In other contexts, you deplore third-party liability. Why wouldn't you deplore it here?

          Horrible analogy. In order for the getaway driver to be legally liable, they have to know they're helping a criminal of some sort escape from the law. What you folks want is to convict and imprison unknowing cab drivers for giving a criminal a ride.

          What you copyright trolls don't understand is that the rest of humanity and the Internet ought to have no obligation, legal or moral, to police your precious state-granted monopolies (copyrights) for you. So get off our lawn.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 1:48pm

        Re: Re:

        but mike, we are all terrorists now, because ONLY terrorists use encryption, right? Certainly the US Govt/Mil never used encryption EVER. This is expanding on the whole "If you've done nothing wrong..." Argument, and it is dangerous, VERY VERY dangerous, if not out right deadly.

        To the NSA/FBI calling for backdoors, are you going to also require that backdoors be put into key US Govt/Mil communications? If you've answered no, then you have to ask yourselves why are you better than everyone else? Does China have a giant backdoor in their Great Firewall? Again, you have to ask yourselves, "Why don't they do this?" if it is so great?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:48am

      Re:

      You gotta love someone who argues against anonymity using an anonymous profile.

      Congratulations on your fail!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Michael Jackson, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:01pm

        Re: Re:

        Anonymous Coward - you are an armchair nurd who knows a lot about tech and little about history, psychology, and dealing with people face to face. You are viewing this whole thing thru a pinhole. I don't know if you regard your on line ID as some sort of irony, or are just the ADHD type that thrives on provocation, but I think your ID is literally correct. You take a point that may have something but then stretch it enormously in order to have the last word on everything that you have never done, and in so doing lose any credibility for your original point.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Ruben, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:49am

      Re:

      I want to fight you.

      Name the time and place.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:24am

      Re:

      We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers.
      Snowden has as much responsibility for this attack as Volkswagen has for the getaway.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    scatman09 (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 5:54am

    This is why terrorism works; it always gets the victims to blame each other instead of blaming the terrorist themselves.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:19am

    Snowden didn't allow fake refugees into France;

    Hollande did.

    Ask Rob Lowe said, NOW Hollande closes the border?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    william, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:26am

    George Soros financed Ferguson.
    George Soros financed the European Invaders
    George Soros probably financed Missouri.
    George Soros owes REPARATIONS.
    Those who ENABLED these INVADERS to flood in must pay reparations to the Families and Survivors. Start with George Soros' wealth, then Merkel, and go on down the line. The INVADER ENABLERS committed these acts BY PROXY and must pay FULL REPARATIONS. They must pay for the costs of policing and controlling THEIR AGENTS , feeding, housing, clothing, and REPATRIATING the invaders.
    Jewish Billionaire George Soros has confirmed he wants to bring down Europe’s borders, following the accusation made last week by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. “This invasion is driven, on the one hand, by people smugglers, and on the other by those (human rights) activists who support everything that weakens the nation-state,” Mr Orban said. Mr Soros has now issued an email statement to Bloomberg Business, claiming his foundations help “uphold European values”, while Mr Oban’s actions in strengthening the Hungarian border and stopping a huge migrant influx “undermine those values.” “His plan treats the protection of national borders as the objective and the refugees as an obstacle,” Mr Soros added. “Our plan treats the protection of refugees as the objective and national borders as the obstacle.” Already Israeli businessman are buying up land in northern Iraq, where ISIS(rael) has depopulated an entire region, overwhelming Europe with refugees in the process.
    Soros, a WWII Nazi COLLABORATOR, has been spreading TEARS and CHAOS through his financing of "color" revolutions, and his financing of race riots in America starting with Ferguson. Soros owes REPARATIONS globally.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:27am

    Looking for terrorists under lampposts,

    becuz that's where the light is brightest.

    Decrypting iPhones & emails is completely useless when ISIS is using Playstations to communicate.

    These "intelligence" agencies are destroying the Fourth Amendment, with ZERO improvement in security.

    But then, these agencies were never serious about looking for terrorists UNLESS they were under lampposts. They want to show some 'stats', and it's easier to run up stats with dumb terrorists than with smart terrorists.

    Or, in the case of the FBI, they simply MANUFACTURE terrorists out of 80-IQ dimwits in order to run up their stats.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:26pm

      Re: Looking for terrorists under lampposts,

      These "intelligence" agencies are destroying the Fourth Amendment, with ZERO improvement in security.

      The security they are working to improve is their own, at the cost of everyone else's.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Sam, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:34am

    This is especially frustrating given that the surveillance state was ranked up after a supposed intelligence failure after 9/11. The truth is that our intelligence didn't fail, it was our leaders who failed to listen to the intelligence. Now they want to continue down the same path despite yet another failure of their system.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/ex-cia-director-bush-ignored-months-of-warnings-about-911-to-avoid-l eaving-paper-trail-of-culpability/

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Adrian Lopez, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:36am

    A lot of these reporters get their information from government officials -- probably the same ones who've been pushing the "going dark" narrative. Even if it's true, we still shouldn't be building back doors into encryption software, or regulating encryption the way we do weapons.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:38am

    Facebook 'safety check' to be used for terrorist comms

    'safety check allows users to alert their network that they are okay', but can also be used to signal their network to attack.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:42am

    Ghouls the lot of them. Those people are delighting in the deaths of so many people as much or more than the people who sent the murderers in the first place.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:51am

    If you stretch logic thin enough, you can blame all the evils in the world on whatever pet gripe you have at the time.

    Obviously the Paris terrorist attacks, and terrorism as a whole, are due to copyright.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:22am

    Well we better throw Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld in jail for being terrorist supporters since they use encryption (HTTPS) to access their email and banking institutions.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:09am

      Re:

      Agree. Or at least F them. F them to you know where and back. Does that mean ass? I think it means ass, but you never know with her choice of words. I assume for this Dana-whoever that would compete with the hand already in there. You know, because she's a puppet and all.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 7:51am

    What's wrong with saying that encryption absolutely *does* help terrorists succeed? It *does* thwart law enforcement. But it's a price worth paying.

    Here's a car analopy: we could set speed limits to 20 mph on every road in the US and save 30,000 lives every year. Far more than we would save if every terrorist plat were thwarted. But we don't do it because we value efficient travel more than those 30,000 lives.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      AJ, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:46am

      Re:

      "What's wrong with saying that encryption absolutely *does* help terrorists succeed? It *does* thwart law enforcement. But it's a price worth paying."

      Nothing at all. It's an honest argument.Freedom has a price. In some cases the price is in blood. The goal of terrorism is and always has been, to destroy freedom. Every time we take away freedoms to combat terrorism we are advancing their cause. Politicians love to ride these types of tragedy's to push their agenda's. Gun control, encryption, whatever. It's an opportunity to advance their cause...

      The only people not using these types of tragedies to push an agenda are the victims.

      "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel"

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Michael, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:25am

      Re:

      What's wrong with saying that encryption absolutely *does* help terrorists succeed? It *does* thwart law enforcement. But it's a price worth paying.

      Actually, that's probably wrong. Lacking decent security on the internet would make it easier for terrorists to compromise computer systems - and this would probably help them more than being able to communicate on encrypted channels on the internet.

      we could set speed limits to 20 mph on every road in the US and save 30,000 lives every year

      And I am sorry, while I agree with what I think is your point, this has been repeatedly debunked. There is not even a decent correlation in the reduction of speed limits and the reduction of deaths by car accidents.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      bean counter, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:05am

      Re: cost/benefit analysis

      If you run the numbers it's obvious way too much money and effort is being spent on trying to "protect" the populace from the threat equivalent of a very rare but potentially deadly disease, transmitted by contact with a parasitic infestation that lurks in the shadows...but that's just me right?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:12am

        Re: Re: cost/benefit analysis

        Depends on who bears the cost and who gains the benefits. For government agencies it's probably seems like a pretty good deal.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Capt ICE Enforcer, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:01am

    Thought of the Day.

    Thought of the Day.

    "I bet those bad people ate breakfast, So we should blame breakfast!"

    or

    "Damn that Wiley Coyote showed them how to make bombs, So we should blame cartoons!"

    Blame everyone and everything for the attacks but the people who did the attacks. Makes sense to me.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Steve R. (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:18am

    srynas

    This morning, Fox News trotted out a police chief who blamed encryption for frustrating the ability of law enforcement to monitor potential terrorists. Missing from the discussion is that the ability to "break" encryption means that there is no security, even for legitimate uses.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:49am

      Among other things

      Also on the list of things responsible for 'frustrating the ability of law enforcement to monitor potential terrorists':

      Blinds
      Closed windows
      Doors
      Walls
      The ability to talk face to face without someone listening in
      Whispering
      Hand delivered letters
      Privacy in general
      Languages that aren't understood by police in the area
      The lack of a police officer and/or camera and microphone in every room of every house and building
      Laws (theoretically) protecting the right to privacy
      ...

      With so many things getting in the way of their ability to monitor crime and/or 'terrorism', it's a wonder they can solve any crimes at all.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Nov 2015 @ 3:15am

        Re: Among other things

        The FBI today announced the plan to extend the highly successful police bodycam program to the entire population.
        The wearing of the bodycam will be mandatory (except for law enforcement/government officials) your cam will be issued at birth and all recordings will be sent without using encryption on a daily basis for review.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:06am

      Re: srynas

      > a police chief who blamed encryption for frustrating the ability of law enforcement to monitor potential terrorists

      That's a legitimate complaint. It's not his job to judge whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives, just to advocate for what he needs to do his job better.

      Putting the guy on tv is probably a good move for Fox as well. Their viewership numbers are doing well, and in times of crisis, does even better. A police chief talking about all the things that make their jobs difficult is interesting.

      It wouldn't surprise me if in the Fox forums there is somebody pointing out that on Techdirt, contributors are advocating for strong encryption to be left in the hands of evil people and no article writers are providing balance.

      I like the Techdirt echo chamber and other people like Fox's echo chamber.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:17am

        Re: Re: srynas

        That's a legitimate complaint. It's not his job to judge whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives, just to advocate for what he needs to do his job better.

        Depends on what exactly he thinks his job is, or what he believes to have higher priority. If it's 'stopping criminals and solving crimes' then yes, it makes perfect sense for him to argue against encryption, as encryption can indeed make those two things more difficult.

        On the other hand if it's 'protecting the public' then arguing against encryption is counter-productive, as he's arguing against something that protects the public by making it more difficult for would-be-criminals to commit crimes.

        Solving a crime is well and good, but preventing it from ever happening in the first place is far better.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:17am

        Re: Re: srynas

        Tired old excuses do not a rational make.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:38pm

        Re: Re: srynas

        That's a legitimate complaint. It's not his job to judge whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives, just to advocate for what he needs to do his job better.

        You know what else reduces crime? Wholesale slaughters of populations. No people = no crimes. Now, on that basis, maybe you would also argue that it would be perfectly legitimate for law enforcement officials to call for genocide. I would say that you're a sociopath.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Klaus, 17 Nov 2015 @ 4:55am

        Re: Re: srynas

        I don't think it's legitimate at all. There have to be a 1001 other things that can frustrate lawmen, ranging from access to real, human intelligence to lack of political will to tackle the root causes of terrorism.

        Picking on one, the inability to read peoples electronic messages at will is just lazy, pandering to whatever is "on message" that week in law enforcement. What, is enforcing peoples privacy not in his job description?

        This is a clown, in a uniform. Wearing a badge of authority.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:39am

    I haven't heard the criminals complain about going dark.

    So far, the FBI seems to be having more trouble with encryption than the cryptolocker folks.

    Why don't we simply fire all the FBI people & hire the cryptolocker folks instead?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 8:44am

    The attackers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology,

    Citizens are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when checking their bank balances.
    Online shoppers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when making purchaes online.
    Gmail users are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when checking their email.
    Yahoo! users are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when checking their email.
    Grandma is believed to have communicated using encryption technology when talking to her grandchildren on FaceTime using her ipad
    Techdirt readers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when leaving this message.
    You are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when reading this message.

    Terrorists use propaganda, guns and bombs, so does the USA Government. The one closer to home terrorizes me more than the one in a desert on the other side of the planet.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:03am

      Re: The attackers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology,

      Terrorists use propaganda, guns and bombs, so does the USA Government. The one closer to home terrorizes me more than the one in a desert on the other side of the planet.

      Completely agree. I worry about terrorist as much as I worry about getting struck by lighting. The US government on the other hand scares me far more. Terrorists have only been an excuse to extend their control far beyond what it is supposed to be.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    David, 16 Nov 2015 @ 9:45am

    Would it have made a difference?

    If the encryption they used was breakable (and it's possible it was breakable), would it have made any difference? Breaking encryption likely only would have helped figure out what happened AFTER the event, unless they were decrypting everything and could see and act on the message in sufficient time before the attack.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Ruben, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:03am

    What you never hear in these debates

    You never hear any of these talking heads, nor any intelligence official gripe about how they have obtained encrypted messages sent by terror suspects that they aren't able to break. Nobody has ever mentioned after the fact that there was a communique intercepted from a known attacker ahead of an attack that was unable to be decrypted which may have been of substantial use.

    They haven't even intercepted their comms, and if they did, they were either able to decrypt it, or it was already in cleartext.

    Now, I'm not saying that the intelligence community is useless, but there's a job they should be doing and they're not doing it despite being given nearly every resource they could possibly dream of having.

    But, to them, clearly the answer is to be given more power and resources. The tunnel vision is strong with this one.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:20am

    If they ban VPNs how will I get my music and shows?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      suomynonA drawoC, 18 Nov 2015 @ 8:47am

      Re:

      I don't know, Sneakernet maybe? There will always be some means of sharing/communicating freely without having to worry about eavesdroppers. This truth is as old as time itself and no amount of surveillance power will ever overcome it.

      I actually started using a VPN just a couple of years ago, fwiw. My reason wasn't to hide illegal downloads, though it does occasionally do this for me. No, it was because the powers that be were abusing the law and civil rights in ways they were never meant to be and that really pissed me off (thank you Snowden!).

      I always encrypt all of my hard drives too, not because I have anything to hide, but because I live in a pretty bad neighborhood where theft is a real concern. I'm not worried so much about my passwords since those are encrypted too, but the idea of some stranger looking at my photos and what not? That creeps me out lol.

      I guess my point is that using encryption doesn't automatically equate to someone being a "bad guy". There are plenty of legitimate reasons for using it beyond just banking and shopping. And even if the powers that be did find a way to force programmers to adopt their whole "backdoors for law enforcement purposes only" concept (what a joke), evildoers would simply resort to writing their own software.

      PS: Can't wait to see law enforcement flip out when quantum entanglement becomes the communications norm. Good luck tapping that shit lol.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        nasch (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 9:15am

        Re: Re:

        Law enforcement says "the terrorists used encryption to conceal their communications from us", with the implication being that therefore something needs to be done about encryption so terrorists can't use it anymore. But there's nothing special about encryption morally or legally, it's just a type of privacy. So substitute "privacy" for "encryption":

        Law enforcement says "the terrorists used privacy to conceal their communications from us", with the implication being that therefore something needs to be done about privacy so terrorists can't use it anymore.

        When put that way, it's obviously outrageous, because clearly they can't remove terrorists' privacy without removing everyone's. For some reason it's not as obvious to everyone that encryption, as a type of privacy, is exactly the same.

        I can't claim any of this as my original thinking, just something I was thinking about the other day listening to one of these law enforcement people talking about this.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          suomynonA drawoC, 19 Nov 2015 @ 7:11am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Mind = Blown!

          That is a great way of looking at it. I'll have to remember to use this most excellent line of reasoning the next time I have to deal with someone who doesn't get it.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Yes, I know I'm commenting anonymously, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:23am

    The real irony is that, by blaming Snowden, the surveillance-lobby is actually aiding the terrorists (by way of letting them off easy).

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 10:58am

    My embarrassing "ah-ha!" moment: This post & its comments got me wondering what a government based on a single general idea ('security uber alles') was called. Turns out, a ruling body formed around an abstract idea is called an idiocracy. Suddenly, Mike Judge seems a lot more subtle than I thought... and I've realized that my vocabulary is a lot more limited than I care to admit.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:19am

    Terrorism fuels the engines of the surveillance state.

    Gotta keep those fires stoked, else the flames might go out.

    Can't provide evidence of efficacy; top secret stuff, you know.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:22am

    They could attack Paris everyday, I wouldn't stop using encryption; the Internet wouldn't.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 11:43am

    Turkey says it notified France twice about attacker

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-turkey-says-it-notified-france-twice-ab out-attacker-says-senior-official-a6736131.html

    Turkey notified France twice in December 2014 and June 2015 about one of the attackers in suicide bombings and shootings in Paris that killed more than 130 people, a senior Turkish government official said on Monday.

    Yes, by all means, blame Snowden.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Nov 2015 @ 12:03pm

    I am so sick of hearing 'The bad guys were doing stuff in secret! How were we supposed to know?' logic.

    Every damn time I hear these groups talk about LEGAL CIVIL TOOLS FOR PRIVACY they make it sound like every criminal had to log their plans with the local police department before carrying it out.

    If you can't catch bad guys when they try to hide what they're doing, YOU CAN'T CATCH BAD GUYS! News flash! Criminals (yes, TERRORISTS are criminals. Screw the fear-logic terminology that has long since lost all meaning) try to be secretive!

    If your only method of catching criminals is 'lets hope they are stupid enough to make it easy for us', get another job, and maybe we can finally find an agency willing to take it's role and responsibility seriously, and approach the problem in a realistic and meaningful manner.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Personanograta, 16 Nov 2015 @ 2:29pm

    How Very Convenient

    As Predicted: Encryption Haters Are Already Blaming Snowden (?!?) For The Paris Attacks

    Yes, Edward Snowden was responsible For The Paris Attacks.

    The attacks had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Western governments have been humiliating, dehumanizing, bombing and controlling the resources of entire regions throughout the Middle East and Northern Africa for over 100 years.

    It begins with the end World War I when the Ottoman Empire was forced by the Allied Powers as part of war reparations to sign the Treaty of Sevres in 1920 which began first with the partitioning and then total dissolution of the empire.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres

    Western control of the region mainly through mandates pronounced by both British/French governments over the succeeding years only served to entrench Western control often through indigenous bought and paid for satraps. This scheme is wholly responsible for the repression of entire generations of Middle Eastern and North African people who had almost no hope of casting off the repressive yolk of corrupt locals and power (oil) hungry Western sadists.

    While it took only 20 years for the abusive allied friendly terms in the Treaty of Versailles to explode in Europe and usher in World War II the equally abusive terms of the Treaty of Sevres and British/French mandates took an additional 75 years boil over with the continued help of local despots and their Sadist Western partners (US included) to bring the region to a rapid boil.

    So yes it is all Edward Snowdens fault.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    MicrosoftExec, 16 Nov 2015 @ 6:09pm

    Time to ban

    In light of the recent unconfirmed allegations please ban all the PS 4's.

    Thanks
    M.S.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Nov 2015 @ 5:53am

    "It was not clear whether the encryption was part of widely used communications tools, like WhatsApp, which the authorities have a hard time monitoring, or something more elaborate."
    Whatsapp belongs to facebook, another skynet facade,
    therefore it must be 100% NSA compatible.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Nov 2015 @ 5:58am

    "It was not clear whether the encryption was part of widely used communications tools, like WhatsApp, which the authorities have a hard time monitoring, or something more elaborate."

    something more elaborate like
    an encrypted chat server
    running on a stupid self erasing raspberry with no storage
    through a very dark darknet (tor?)

    with any common android chat client apps

    that is not exactly elaborate, any kid can do something like that and have totally encrypted chat/voip conversation

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Roy Batty, 17 Nov 2015 @ 7:49am

    And if they were on PS4?

    Terrorists just could have all bought a PlayStation and communicated over in game chat. That's how I pick up hookers and buy drugs.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    res (profile), 17 Nov 2015 @ 10:05am

    duh!

    we and they were using encryption loooooooong before world war II.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    GEMont (profile), 17 Nov 2015 @ 11:07am

    The right tool for the job.

    What a great tool they made when they financed the creation of ISIS. Without a visible terrorist army to do their bidding, it may have taken years to break the American Public's desire for strong encryption here in the USA.

    But with merely a few million US dollars sent to Saudi Arabia, for arms, the Five Eyes has put their best tool to its best use and in one foul swoop, put an end to many, many things that were causing it some grief, such as Syrian Immigrants, strong encryption, cyber-warfare, mass surveillance, and so much more.... which will now be demanded by the truly stupid people (republicans, racists, politicians, kings of industry, lords of the lands, police, etc.) of the USA, and allow the escalation of the Five Eyes base plan to enter stage three.

    And as a bonus, they got to punish the French (fries) for all their refusals to be a team player and for continually refusing to pay their dues to the Five Eyes for protection against terrorist attacks.

    Its gonna be a long memorable winter.

    ----

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    GEMont (profile), 17 Nov 2015 @ 11:25am

    The New World Order

    Gary's first law of social engineering.

    The Surveillance State must ALWAYS fail to stop "terrorist" attacks, because "terrorist" attacks are the very thing that make the Surveillance State appear to be necessary to the terrified public.

    Remove "terrorist" attacks and you remove the need for a Surveillance State.

    Create "terrorist" attacks and you create the need for a Surveillance State.

    ----

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Nov 2015 @ 9:50pm

      Re: The New World Order

      The Surveillance State must ALWAYS fail to stop "terrorist" attacks...

      Real ones, at least. It's OK to stop fake ones that you create for your own purposes.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        GEMont (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 5:46pm

        Re: Re: The New World Order

        "Real ones, at least. It's OK to stop fake ones that you create for your own purposes."

        As I said above.

        "Create "terrorist" attacks and you create the need for a Surveillance State."

        Stopping one of the fake "terrorist" attacks the FBI is so bad at constructing from whole cloth, is actually neither "stopping an attack" or "stopping a terrorist", since the victim of such phony FBI stings are usually brain damaged idiots and not in any way real terrorists, and the planned attack was entirely fictional and never intended to be carried out. Even the explosives are phony.

        If the Five Eyes had not recruited mercenaries from all over the world to fill the ranks of ISIS for a publicly visible Saudi based Terrorist Army, the only terrorist attacks left would indeed be the ones manufactured by the FBI.

        And since those are so obviously phony, nobody in the USA or anywhere else would be hiding under their bed any more.

        By having its terrorist army murder lots of people in France, the Five Eyes have renewed the public terror level and created a situation where all of their planned global surveillance and crowd control operations will be instantly publicly approved, if not outright publicly demanded, for a while.

        It was a superbly evil, but strategically timely move.

        Truth is however, that the more often they do this sort of thing, the less time the effect of terror on the public will last, meaning that 5-Is will necessarily have to do this sort of thing more often, if they continue blowing up only non-Five Eyes nation's citizens.

        Which is of course, the entire purpose of ISIS.

        When ISIS begins using US-made drones to target churches and schools in the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Britain, you will know that the Five Eyes has finally decided to drop the other shoe and put the world to war.

        Considering the level of escalation that the France Bombing displays, this should likely not be too long from now.

        After all, the old farts running the Five Eyes want very much to enjoy the fruits of their labors before they are too old to get it up any more.

        You may want to get used to saying "Hail Hydra".

        ---

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 4:55pm

    Even terrorists have a right to privacy.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      GEMont (profile), 22 Nov 2015 @ 1:58pm

      Re:

      "Even terrorists have a right to privacy."

      Better watch that kinda talk there stranger.

      Sentiments like that can get you a one way ticket on a CIA freight flight, to a small room in a small foreign country that considers torture to be pure spiritual joy, where members of your own government will gleefully pull off your fingernails and electrocute your genitals, with equipment your tax dollars paid for.

      And if you think that a simple "anonymous" handle will keep the men and women of your government from discerning your true identity, using technology your tax dollars paid for, perhaps you would also like to purchase this lovely 500 acre estate/plantation I have for sale, in Florida....

      ---

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    crade (profile), 23 Nov 2015 @ 3:51pm

    I heard the terrorists also used guns.. Maybe if we just stopped making those, they wouldn't have any and we would all be safe...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Swamish, 4 Jan 2016 @ 10:00am

    Snowden is part of the problem

    It's hilarious to me that people who are pro-Snowden drag up 15 year old articles and that somehow represents ALL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. Look, I work in tech. In software development to be exact. And even people in my area didn't really become aware of just how commonly it was used, etc, until all this came to light from Snowden. There are some estimated tens of thousands of terror groups in the world. Are you telling me they are all so organized that all of those groups have read that handbook and they all take orders from the same guy? How ignorant can you be if you actually believe that. There are tons of splinter groups and maybe they have never even heard of the handbook you posted above but BECAUSE of Snowden's leak they now know to use encryption. You act like because you found one article from over a decade ago that all terrorists no matter what follow that same pattern. That is ridiculous and ignorant. And to claim Snowden didn't have a negative affect on spreading the information about encryption to a wider audience is also ignorant.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
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    movies for free

    download OneBox HD app to watch latest movies for free. you can download the app from this URL - https://oneboxhdapp.com/

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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