Cops Decide Running Surprise School Shooter Drill During Class At A Middle School Is A Great Idea

from the practicing-trauma dept

We're going to have to go over this again: if your drills to prevent school tragedy actually leave school children traumatized, then don't do those damned drills. What began with terrorism drills on school buses and then devolved into unannounced school-shooting drills is getting to be so full-on crazy that I sort of can't believe that anyone thinks any of this is a good idea. The latest story involves police running an unannounced "active shooter drill" at a local middle school while classes were in session. As a part of this insane exercise, police officers went around bursting into classrooms filled with terrified students, weapons out, as they acted out their fun little thespian experience of horror. And, to add insult to injury, school officials notified parents of the drill long after unknowing students were informing their parents that an actual shooting was taking place at the school.

According to Fox affiliate WTVT, officials at Jewett Middle Academy e-mailed parents to inform them of the drill, after it took place. By that point, WTVT reports, cellphones were already filling up with texts from frightened students, who thought there was a real shooter in the school.
Were the parents supposed to be part of this drill as well? Otherwise, exactly what was the point of sending terrified parents barreling towards the school to see exactly what the hell was going on? You'd think school officials must be issuing one hell of a mea culpa, right? Of course not. Realism is the key, yo.
“Unfortunately, no one gets an advanced notice of real life emergencies,” Polk County Public Schools spokesman Jason Gearey said in an e-mailed statement to The Washington Post. “We don’t want students to be scared, but we need them to be safe.”
And you can see his point. But why stop at school shootings? If terrifying students is done in the name of preparing them for terrifying, if not in any way likely events, why not prepare them for tragedies much more likely to occur? Why not tell kids every once in a while that their parents are dead, just to get them used to the eventual occurrence? Or, hey, maybe just burst into their rooms while they're sleeping occasionally and scream, "You probably won't be nearly as successful as you think you will!" and then run away, just to get them used to the disappointment of life. I mean, they'll have to face hardship at times, so why not get them ready for that hardship by making them face fake hardship?

What's that? You're saying that way of thinking is crazy-pants? As crazy as, say, the police admitting that the officers in this drill were using real firearms with live ammo?
Stacy Ray told WTVT that she received a text from her seventh-grade daughter Lauren Marionneaux after two armed officers burst into her classroom.Winter Haven police told The Post that one of the officers had his duty firearm – a handgun – drawn. The gun was loaded, as required. The other officer was carrying an unloaded AR-15. According to Ray, one of her other children texted: “I thought he was going to shoot me.”
Get used to it little girl. After all, there's a tiny, basically insignificant and certainly not growing likelihood that you'll have to face this situation for real some day. Totally justifies terrifying our children, right?

Filed Under: drill, middle school, police, school shooting


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  • icon
    Ninja (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 2:16am

    I'm disappointed. No zombie apocalypse drills which, honestly, are much more likely to take places. Also, where are the fortified vaults full of Twinkies to act as emergency rations when the zombies finally rise? Where are the reinforced doors, biologic suits? WHERE ARE THE SHOTGUNS?!?!?!?!

    Tsc. Law enforcement incompetence is at an all-times high it seems.

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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 2:44am

    Dodged a bullet there...

    “Unfortunately, no one gets an advanced notice of real life emergencies,” Polk County Public Schools spokesman Jason Gearey said in an e-mailed statement to The Washington Post. “We don’t want students to be scared, but we need them to be safe.”

    I am so glad I made it through the schooling system before idiots like that became involved, using that logic a 'fire drill' would have involved literally setting the school on fire. Without telling the teachers ahead of time, 'because you can't know when a disaster might strike!' /s

    Also, they really need to plan their ridiculous excuses more in advance. Claiming that the drill was about keeping the kids safe in one statement, then admitting that the drill involved real guns, with live ammunition in them in another statement... yeah, gotta say, the first thing I think of when I hear 'loaded gun pointed at students' is not 'safety'(well, other than perhaps 'I sure hope they trained those brain-dead fools how to use the safety on a gun'...)

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    • icon
      Rabbit80 (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:34am

      Re: Dodged a bullet there...

      When I was at school (at around age 11), our science teacher would randomly drop a lit paper towel or set fire to a gas tap - to see what we would do.. More than once this resulted in one of the kids setting off the fire alarm instead of just stamping on the towel or turning off the gas tap.

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      • icon
        tqk (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:30am

        Re: Re: Dodged a bullet there...

        When I was at school (at around age 11), our science teacher would randomly drop a lit paper towel or set fire to a gas tap - to see what we would do.. More than once this resulted in one of the kids setting off the fire alarm instead ...

        That's brilliant! "Crap. These kids aren't awake yet, and I want a smoke break. Fire drill!"
        ... of just stamping on the towel or turning off the gas tap.

        I can't wait to try this on adults. Thanks!

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        • icon
          Rabbit80 (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:17am

          Re: Re: Re: Dodged a bullet there...

          You're welcome!

          In all honesty, it is one of the memories of that school that will stick with me. It did actually teach us not to panic in a fire situation and obviously was effective because I remember it well over 20 years later!

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:14am

    Last I checked one of the principle rules of firearms ownership is NEVER EVER EVER point an un/loaded weapon at someone unless you have the intent to shoot.

    And yet people are shocked, SHOCKED that law enforcement actively rejects applicants who's intelligence is too high. You get what you fucking pay.

    Also, were they wearing body cameras?

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:03pm

      Re:

      By my count, the offi er most likepy violated all four.

      They are:

      1. Always assume the firearm is loaded. (I think it's pretty obvious that this one was violated. No responsible person would charge into a school with a loaded rifle during school hours unless there was a damned good reason, in my opinion)
      2. Do not cover anything with the muzzle that you do not intend to destroy. (Again, pretty obvious that this was violated.)
      3. Finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. (This is, unfortunately, commonly violated by shooters of all stripes, including police officers.)
      4. Know your target and what 7s behing it. (Once more, pretty obvious. If any of the officer's firearms would have discharged, it would be unlikely that they were pointed in a safe direction, and the day would likely end in tragedy.)

      I just cannot see the benefit to taking such a large risk on the point of the police. I cant fathom why the decision was made to have such a drill during school hours, and without informing the community to boot!

      The local police held a similar drill kast week near where I live. The difference was that the drill was held after hours, and only after the building was cleared of all extraneous personnel and secured. They also would do drills in a similar manner in the school district I attended growuing up (though that was some time ago). To me, that is a reasonable balance between the training needs of the officers, the requirement of providing a safe and constructive learning environment for the students, engagement with the community, and commonsense safety precautions.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:20am

    Just preparing kids for police invasions. It's more likely than a terrorist attack or school shooting.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:23am

    What would have happened if there was a hero there who managed to take a weapon from the attacker and used it on them?
    Since it's police, the hero probably would be jailed for life.
    So really, not only are we teaching students that police invasions are likely, but to be subservient to the attacker.

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    • icon
      John85851 (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:33am

      Re:

      That's an excellent point.

      I'd like to see the responses from the people who say all teachers should be armed. Like you said, what if one of these armed teachers shot at the police? Would it still be a "drill" or would the police now be reacting to a real shooter- the teacher?

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      • identicon
        PRMan, 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:06am

        Re: Re:

        And this is EXACTLY why cops shouldn't be going around weapons drawn bursting into classrooms.

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      • identicon
        Varsil, 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:10am

        Re: Re:

        I suspect that if it were a school where teachers are armed, the police would have never dared run an unannounced "active shooter" simulation.

        Of course, they should have never dared to do so even without armed teachers.

        My personal take is that armed teachers is one of the better ways to stop a school shooting spree, but that school shooting sprees are so fucking rare that it's not worth it.

        But hell, let's consider an alternate hypothetical, which is that one of the kids might be dealing drugs on the side and have a handgun stashed in his backpack for that reason. Notwithstanding that the kid is committing several crimes by doing so, in the moment of an active shooter situation he'd be justified in trying to take out said active shooter.

        By the same token someone would be justified in trying to drop a cinder block on an active shooter from a higher floor, or hitting them with a fire extinguisher, or any other number of lethal possibilities.

        Running unannounced "we are trying to murder you" drills is a good way to end up with big problems.

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        • icon
          Mason Wheeler (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:38am

          Re: Re: Re:

          My personal take is that armed teachers is one of the better ways to stop a school shooting spree

          Really? Let's keep in mind one simple fact: if there are armed teachers at a school, people will know. And more importantly, the students will know. Even if they aren't told which teachers are armed, they'll know that they're there, and someone's eventually going to find out the details.

          That being true, which is more likely?

          1) That an armed teacher would be able to stop a school shooting spree (which is, by definition, a premeditated act, since the kid had to acquire the gun and bring it to school beforehand) with the shooter forewarned that there are armed teachers around.

          or 2) That a non-premeditated angry dispute could escalate into a tragedy when some disgruntled, overly hormonal kid steals a teacher's gun.

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          • icon
            JMT (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 3:20pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            how about 3) The armed teacher is killed by police after being misidentified as the shooter by a pumped-up, trigger-happy cop.

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            • identicon
              Pragmatic, 24 Nov 2014 @ 5:41am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              There is no place for guns in the classroom, period. Why is anyone suggesting that a shootout in the OK Corral is the solution to these things? Wouldn't it be wiser to have an airlock system that makes it hard for unauthorized personnel to enter the building in the first place? Shouldn't there be better access to mental healthcare in the first place? Shouldn't troubled kids be referred to the school counsellor in the first place?

              Protip: You can solve most of your problems without shooting at them if you just exercise a bit of common sense.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:29am

    Truly beyond the pale.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:29am

    Be glad they didn't send in a shooter in advance

    I think we should all be glad, especially the children, that they didn't send in an undercover cop to kneecap a few of the kids to up the realism.

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  • icon
    S. T. Stone (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:30am

    Wait. They used actual firearms that were fully loaded with live ammo as part of a ‘drill’?

    Every single one of those officers are lucky they didn't pull a trigger, because the lawsuits that are going to stem from this would be even worse if a child had been shot (or even killed).

    Nobody involved with putting on this shitshow of a drill—including the people who allowed it to happen and approved of it happening—should walk away from this unscathed. This was not a drill; this was a debacle that deserves to be a black mark on their entire lives.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:54am

      Re:

      Why are any of these people still police officers today?

      How is it possible that they weren't all INSTANTLY fired?

      Why haven't they been forced to apologize to those children and teachers and parents? And to grovel before them on their knees while begging for forgiveness?

      Why hasn't that police department been shut down?

      Why aren't there state and federal investigations in progress?

      What the hell kind of an insane country is it that doesn't shut this crap down instantly?

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    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:11am

      Re:

      No, didn't you read? This was about *safety*. Sure, the chances of an accident while brandishing a loaded firearm in a room full of panicking people is almost certainly greater that that of a real shooter. Plus, the chances of a panicking parent losing control of his vehicle while speeding to save his child from a threat he thinks is real is probably greater than that. But, you know, *safety*!

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      • icon
        art guerrilla (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:41am

        Re: Re:

        1. the police chief *actually* said (in so many words) 'but who will think of the children?'...

        2. AND apparently reluctantly agreed that live ammo might not have been super smart ('cause of all you sissy-babies), BUT they will DEFINITELY be running these surprise terrorizing drills in the future...

        3. my thing is, since you are about 8-10 times more likely to be killed by a fucking pig than a fucking terrorist; maybe we should have some actual terrorists storm the school to simulate an out-of-control pig attack...
        idiots

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:22am

      Re:

      Were their any accidents due to parents rushing to the school? If so the police should bear the costs of any damages from them.

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      • identicon
        Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:06am

        Re: Re:

        That's a bit of a stretch into secondary liability and probably not appropriate.

        I think the best result here would be for everyone on the school board to be voted out and whoever is responsible for this fiasco in the police department should be fired.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:40am

          Re: Re: Re:

          That's a bit of a stretch into secondary liability and probably not appropriate.

          Holding an exercise, which if first reported by the kids will lead to parents panicking and rushing to the school, and not notifying them is negligence of the highest order. That some parents would rush to the school when kids start reporting to them that there are men with guns running about the school, is something that is should have come up when the risk assessment was carried out for the exercise. Also it should be obvious to the meanest intelligence, that the parents rushing to the school are going to be at higher risk of a traffic accident, because of they are distracted by their panic.

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:48am

            Risk Assesment? What Risk Assesment?

            There was no "risk assessment". Just a few idiots sitting around the donut shop, saying "Hey! Let's pull a shooter drill on the school. That would be fun!" Just the end result of terminal boredom and not enough crime happening. Or, maybe, too many cops on the loose in that town.

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          • identicon
            Quiet Lurcker, 19 Nov 2014 @ 12:34pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            ...[S]omething that is should have come up when the risk assessment was carried out for the exercise.

            Objection. Counsel is assuming facts not in evidence.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:43am

    Scaremongering impressionable minds at the impressionable ages

    Boy, i should really think about suspecting that random dude/dudette in front of me /s

    Divide and conquer, lets not unite together as individuals with EQUAL rights now, you hear

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:34am

      Re:

      Citizens clamoring for protection from the state instead of protecting themselves is the most effective remedy for peacefully enslaving a people that do not want to be enslaved.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:48am

    "In another, a former employee at a Colorado nursing home said she was traumatized by an attacker readiness drill, during which an armed gunman “forced her into an empty room.” According to the Journal’s report, the officer acting as a gunman in this situation thought the employees there were informed about the drill. He identified himself as an officer after seeing her reaction, but the employee “was so overwhelmed that she didn’t know whether to believe the officer’s assurances that he really was a policeman.”"

    Nursing homes too. Filled with weak and vulnerable people. Brilliant.

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    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 12:05pm

      Re:

      Yes of course, because a shooter or someone taking a hostage would never tell those around them they're a police officer in order to calm them down and keep them from trying to escape or fight back. /s

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:57am

    Every time I read something like this I think about the ending of Falling Down when the guy gets shot and has a moment of clarity. "How did I become the bad guy?"

    The threat of terrorism has turned the protectors into the terrorists. Will they ever see it? If they do, will it also be too late?

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  • identicon
    David, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:03am

    Good for the pupils

    Training like this may improve their chances of survival in real-life situations like a traffic stop or just sitting at home peacefully.

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  • identicon
    Another Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:10am

    Real guns...

    I was a security guard during college (at a nuke plant). The captain, a retired state cop, told us that you don't draw your gun unless you plan to use it, and you don't use it unless you plan to kill your target.

    What changed over the last 40 years?

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    • identicon
      Quiet Lurcker, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:34am

      Re: Real guns...

      ...[Y]ou don't draw your gun unless you plan to use it, and you don't use it unless you plan to kill your target.

      What changed over the last 40 years?


      Apparently, a severe decline in people's IQ and or reasoning capacity.

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    • identicon
      Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:09am

      Re: Real guns...

      Had he not been subject to nuclear radiation for an extended amount of time, he would have known that as a police officer, you are suppose to wave your sidearm around regularly to both get what you want and to impress underage girls that you intend to take to your fake police substation full of law enforcement branded lubrication and condoms.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Nov 2014 @ 8:58pm

      Re: Real guns...

      Have you ever wondered how the SS and the Gestapo formed?

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:18am

    Way to go Florida - again. What a bunch of dumbasses.

    As the younger generation ages they will fear the cops more than criminals, where might that end up?

    Hopefully the parents find a good lawyer. This is not the first time idiots with badges played out a silly scenario at a school, what happened as a result of that CF?

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    • identicon
      Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:10am

      Re:

      There is a reason that the state is shaped like a penis.

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    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 12:11pm

      Re:

      As the younger generation ages they will fear the cops more than criminals, where might that end up?

      That's a feature, not a bug. Stunts like this are meant to instill fear in people, with the idea that a fearful populace will be an orderly, obedient one.

      The cops just haven't quite thought through what will happen(and it will happen at the rate they are increasing their terrorizing and brutalizing of the public) when the fear reaches the tipping point, and people collectively see the police as threats, not protectors.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:24am

    Who are the terrorists now? I doubt any of these "peace" officers are card carrying members of Al Qaeda, The Muslim Brotherhood. ISIS, etc.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:33pm

      Re:

      Actions like this are, and have always been, terrorism.

      Using the fear of a vague threat of violence to get policy or public opinion moving in a direction is terrorism.

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  • identicon
    Quiet Lurcker, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:29am

    The rare good reason...

    In all the known universe of space and time, there are perhaps two or three sound arguments in favor of limiting where people may carry weapons. This is one of them.

    Someone else asked, what would have happened, had some would-be hero gotten one of the cops' guns and turned it on the cop.

    My understanding is, those kinds of so-called cops don't generally wear visible badges or ID. So, consider the quick-thinking teacher who sees armed intruders and manages to kill one or more of the intruders with his or her own weapon? We know full well the cops would return fire in self-defense, probably killing the teacher in the process.

    Then you'd have one or more dead cops and a dead teacher simply because someone, somewhere was too stupid to consider the full ramifications of doing an active shooter drill during the school day.

    Now what've you got? You've got a headstone that says 'here lies Ofcr. Joe Brown, killed by his boss' stupidity'.

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    • identicon
      Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:11am

      Re: The rare good reason...

      what would have happened, had some would-be hero gotten one of the cops' guns and turned it on the cop.

      Good point. They should have just driven into the school with armored vehicles - that would have been safer.

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    • icon
      Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:46am

      Re: The rare good reason...

      I would like to see these idiots try this in an inner city school, where the likelihood of a gang banger packing heat is much greater.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:28am

      Re: The rare good reason...

      If a gun carrying teacher shot dead a police officer performing an unannounced drill like this I would give the teacher a metal for protecting the students.

      The only thing wrong here is the police officers actions, not the fact a teacher carried a gun or used it on an intruder.

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      • identicon
        Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:46am

        Re: Re: The rare good reason...

        I would give the teacher a metal for protecting the students

        I am sure the other police officers would give him several ounces of lead.

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  • icon
    kenichi tanaka (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:59am

    Somebody thought this was a great idea? The person who thought this was a good idea should be drawn and quartered. It's like staging a terrorist attack in the middle of New York City to develop better security measures or staging an attack in Columbine.

    This was thought up in poor taste, bad decision making.

    There was no advanced notice because there are "no real life advance notices when it comes to attacks"? When officers burst into school rooms with their weapons drawn? What the fuck? Pardon me, but this was only an exercise drill for the police and they scared the hell out of the students in the process.

    If I were a parent, I would be filing a lawsuit against the school administrators, the school, the school district and the law enforcement agencies who thought this was a great idea.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:32am

      Re:

      Better idea. Have someone run a surprise active shooter drill at the office of whoever thought this was a good idea. Then once they've been suitably terrified and evacuated from the building, inform them that it's just a drill. Then as they absorb that, inform them that they are fired, someone will be out with a box of their personal belongings in a moment.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:59am

    if your drills to prevent school tragedy

    That drill was not about preventing a school tragedy, or even a realistic response to tragedy in progress, as if there is an active shooter, getting organized for a mass invasion by the swat squad just lets them kill more children. Realistically the first cop or two that get there deals with the shooter, the rest keep the roads clear for the ambulances to get in and out. Oh, they are going to have a hard time dealing with worried parents, and making sure that no kids leave the school without being accounted for.

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  • identicon
    David, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:05am

    Let's do this country-wide

    In order to curb school shootings, let all pupils watch where police comes in, armed in which manner, using which tactics. Let them dream at night about it. Let them see where one can do the most damage before being shot down.

    Instead of one school shooting with 50 victims in 10 years, we'll end up with 100 school shootings with 10 victims each because of everybody being prepared and trained for it, killers and victims alike.

    This is a typically American solution, like "curbing terrorism" by raining death and destruction over Yemen and Pakistan.

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  • identicon
    Brazilian Guy, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:11am

    Well, the least they could do after submiting the students to this trauma is offer them some entertainment. Since Hunger Games is so hot with the young today, maybe organize a showing of a similar movie would be nice. I would suggest them a session of the japanese movie Battle Royale. It has a book too.

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  • identicon
    Call me Al, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:13am

    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of law

    The US is a traditionaly litigious place. I would be very surprised if we do not see a whole raft of lawsuits as a result of this.

    First - businesses whose staff suddenly rushed out of work screaming about how their children were being shot at. They'll obviously want recompense for the lost productivity.

    Second - those parents who, lets be clear here, natureally would be terrified that their children were in mortal peril and therefore would want some form of compensation for mental anguish.

    Three - the children and their parents for the mental anguish of the children.

    The result of these lawsuits will be that the local government have to pay up. It will not, however, result in any of the giant muppets responsible for this farce receiving any punishment.

    Best case is they will cause a change of policy without such actions being taken again.

    Most likely case is that schools will be told to ban mobile phones among children to prevent them from contacting their parents during such a drill which would cause unnecessary disruption to the policy operations.

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    • icon
      Groaker (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:09am

      Re: Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of law

      The cops committed, at the least the tort of assault. Potentially battery and false imprisonment. Just because they are cops, and their victims children, doesn't mean they should get away with it.

      Having a gun pointed at a person will reasonably place them in fear of death or bodily harm. I would further suspect that this behavior is in violation of departmental policy in the use of weapons.

      And police have been known to shoot people who were bystanders, or who were in the process of surrendering. Not unlike the dentist who was in his underwear with his hands up, and was shot by a nervous cop with a twitchy trigger finger, and no trigger discipliine. His execution was for the victim-less crime of gambling.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    tqk (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:14am

    Pew, pew!

    What happened with the "no exceptions" madness where kids are being taught that play acting with gun shaped pizza pockets leads to expulsion?

    The Chief of police's head should roll. Whoever in school administration signed off on this should be charged with terrorism offences. Every one of the cops who used live ammo should be fired for reckless endangerment.

    This is not what we send children to school for. I hope the teacher's union sues the pants off everyone involved. I hope the parents' suits bankrupt the school system. Apparently, it needs to be replaced.

    Children are not to be used as unwitting "extras" in training drills.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:14am

    790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

    The 2014 Florida Statutes

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES

    Chapter 790
    WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

    790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      S. T. Stone (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:40am

      Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

      >implying the law applies to cops

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:43am

        Re: Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

        ... the law applies to cops...
        “any person”

        (Emphasis added.)

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          MadAsASnake (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:03am

          Re: Re: Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

          I think the cops / school admins in this equation have shown insufficient intelligence / empathy to satisfy the criteria.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:58am

          Re: Re: Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

          These were not people. These were monsters.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:25am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: 790.10;Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

            These were not people. These were monsters.
            You may call them “monsters”, but they're still entitled to a jury, aren't they?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Applesauce, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:40am

      Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

      "Any person" will not apply due to prosecutorial discretion.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:37am

        Re: Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

        "Any person" will not apply due to prosecutorial discretion.


        Some news about the Florida 10th Judicial Circuit Prosecuting Attorney (Polk, Highlands and Hardee counties):

        State Attorney Jerry Hill Won't Run for Re-Election”, by Jason Geary, The Ledger, June 5, 2014
        Jerry Hill, who has served for 30 years, will finish term in Jan. 2017.

        State Attorney Jerry Hill will not seek re-election to the post that he's held for 30 years as the top prosecutor for Polk, Highlands and Hardee counties.

        [...more...]

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ottermaton (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:23am

    Good one!

    Or, hey, maybe just burst into their rooms while they're sleeping occasionally and scream, "You probably won't be nearly as successful as you think you will!" and then run away, just to get them used to the disappointment of life.

    I usually get (at least) a good chuckle out of reading your articles, but that one is legendary! Well done!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    dadtaci, 19 Nov 2014 @ 6:43am

    Shooter drill

    This?

    This is how you train kids and their teachers to , instead of following procedure, say "fuck it, don't rush/bother, its just another stupid drill" when an actual, real, life-or-death emergency happens.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Violynne (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:06am

    Remind me: who are the terrorists?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    True, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:10am

    and//

    And what would have happened if one of the kids had been packing a real gun for protection and started putting slugs in the people carrying around the empty assault weapons. or if one of the kids had atatched them in a flight or fight moment with something hevey and or sharp in the school.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:30am

      Re: and//

      This should be possible in any school. Grab fire extinguisher, discharge it in their faces, hit them on head with it once it is empty.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:13am

    Spurious 911 calls?

    Were there any students with the presence of mind to dial 911 and report the in-progress active shooter at their school? If so, did the 911 centre at least know not to send SWAT after their own fake active shooters?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:14am

    Raising kids into a culture of fear. Get em young and they'll be much more willing to submit to more government intrusions into their lives to protect them from the things they're irrationally scared of.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    alternatives(), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:21am

    The idea of the Pen as a stabbing device is supported by police: http://www.hubbardtwppd.org/selfdefense/pen.htm

    What happens when a child who has knowledge of self-defense takes a pencil and jabs one of these "attackers"?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:22am

    My high school had something of a school shooter drill over 12 years ago before I graduated, but they announced it in advance that a "All secretaries please report to the [part of the school]" message was the code for the drill starting, and that the place they name was the place to avoid going in the event of a real shooting. They also didn't have a 'real' shooter running around.

    On the other hand, their idiotic policies said students should make teachers aware if they have cell phones on them so the teachers can use it to contact 9/11/etc in a real emergency. Yet the school rules also said that teachers are to confiscate all cell phones they find on students.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Baron von Robber, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:24am

    I'm sure an unannounced, multiple, officer down reports drill in their department would be received well. :(

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:29am

    Pfft. Back in my day we had nuclear weapons drills WITH REAL A-BOMBS. Sure it was scary, but us survivors learned to get along with our cockroach overlords.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 19 Nov 2014 @ 12:18pm

      Re:

      Sure it was scary, but us survivors learned to get along with our cockroach overlords.

      Thanks for explaining the American political system in layman's terms.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    afn29129 (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:37am

    Student refuses to co-operate?

    So a student refuses to co-operate with the police and wont leave the class-room as ordered. Are the officers gonna use force? Force surely wouldn't be justified in this situation,

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    John85851 (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:38am

    Some historical perspective

    Let's put this in historical perspective and keep in mind that this isn't the first time that the system kept kids scared (and it won't be the last).

    50-60 years ago, the Cold War was going strong and the thinking was that atomic bombs would drop at any minute. What's the best way to protect yourself? Move to a fallout shelter? Take cover in a shielded building?
    Of course not- the solution is to "duck and cover", because obviously putting your hands over your head will protect your from an atomic bomb.

    What are the chances that there would be a nuclear war? What are the chances that a bomb would hit any given school? Yet every student was trained (out of fear) to "duck and cover", as if it could happen at any time.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Call me Al, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:53am

      Re: Some historical perspective

      I actually see that almost as the opposite of this situation.

      Here they are teaching the kids fo be scared that a madman could rampage through the school at any moment... along with police officers rampaging through with their guns drawn.

      During the Cold War everyone was already terrified by the idea of nuclear war. So the "duck and cover" was introduced to give them the false impression that it would help, essentially an attempt to lie away their fears.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Groaker (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:01am

      Re: Some historical perspective

      Yes, but we knew that they were drills. Nobody pointed loaded weapons at us. None of the students took them seriously, at least not after the third grade.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:49am

      Re: Some historical perspective

      I thought they were making the desks out of radiation-proof materials.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:41pm

      Re: Some historical perspective

      Some other perspective: the parents most likely knew about those drills, and so weren't panicked by it as though it was a live attack situation. Even if they didn't know, mobile phones didn't exist so the kids couldn't call their parents during the drill even if they were scared out of their minds. On top of that, the drills were most likely conducted without loaded weapons being brandished as they were in this instance.

      Whatever perspective you try to put on this, it's not really acceptable.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    kenichi tanaka (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:45am

    While it's true that the United States is a litigious society, there are certain circumstances where lawsuits are appropriate. This is one of them. Lawsuits have become a perfect tool for its citizens to hold public officials and institutions accountable for their actions.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:55am

    How else are children supposed to grow up into adults willing to surrender all of their constitutional rights, if they're not terrified of terrorists?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    John Cressman, 19 Nov 2014 @ 7:57am

    There's a name...

    There's a name for people who burst in unannounced with guns drawn when there is no legitimate reason for it... we call them terrorists.

    I think this is a good case of staring too long into the abyss.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:52am

      Re: There's a name...

      We as a country have been staring into the abyss for the last 13 years. I'm pretty sure we passed the "too long" point at least ten years ago.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:06am

    In my school, we have standing orders to launch an assault on any intruder who breaches a classroom. I can imagine everyone in the room being charged with a felony/shot if this happened here.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:51am

      Re:

      First, are you a teacher or a student?

      Second, WHAT!? They expect a group of unarmed civilians to attack an active shooter? With what?

      If this is really true, please post a copy of this order because someone needs their head re-attached.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:15am

    Is this the Polk County that's in Florida? Cuzzzz I live in Polk County, Ga.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:22am

    Along with felony traffic stops and no-knock warrant service with full SWAT presence, activities like these 'active shooter drills' are only meant to train LEOs. Citizens are cardboard backdrops in these drills. Children are just smaller cutouts. This mindset will continue until the LE community as a whole tells these rogue elements to remember their oaths.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Michael, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:53am

      Re:

      Obesity rates are increasing, so they aren't really smaller these days, just shorter.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Nov 2014 @ 9:04pm

      Re:

      Have you heard about the police using targets made up to look like regular every day citizens holding guns?

      Here they are training to attack and assault schools. Question would be who controls this domestic army being made ready to wage war on citizens

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:27am

    Desensitization

    Hmm... perhaps this is the 'next step' in fighting terror... if we terrorize our children constantly as they grow up, they will eventually stop being terrorized by such events.

    Surely this is it; afterall, we all *know* that children are desensitized from violence from playing all these violoent video games and television.
    So to combat terror, we'll desensitize our kids!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:52am

    If this goes on, at some point there wille be a real school shooting and everybody in the building will think it's just another drill so don't worry about it too much with possibly devastating consequences.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:29am

    I can see this ending in 2 ways. 1- A cop "accidentally" kills a student or teacher. 2- A student or teacher taking action ends up killing a cop. Anyway it will end up being the student or teachers "fault"

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    aldestrawk (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:40am

    School district suspends principal

    Apparently, common sense, or at least the realization that the fallout from parent's anger needed to be addressed, has led to the school district suspending the principal of the middle school.
    http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/27425991/district-suspends-principal-after-controversial-s hooter-drills

    Unfortunately, the Winter Haven police still think such drills are a good idea, although in the future they won't draw their guns during a drill. Mental myopia is a common problem. If you restrict your focus just to what is needed to train LEOs and school personnel, such drills are actually a good idea. What is missing is a wider perspective, one that students and their parents could see immediately.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 12:34pm

      Re: School district suspends principal

      'Suspending' them is a start, but 'Firing and barred from any teaching position for the rest of his/her life' would be a better response.

      Also, I wonder if it would be legal to bar the police from entering the building without specific permission, if they're that insistent that common sense be damned, they want to go play 'terrorists and terrorized students'?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      JMT (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 3:28pm

      Re: School district suspends principal

      "Unfortunately, the Winter Haven police still think such drills are a good idea..."

      Hopefully the replacement principal, and other principals encountering the Winter Haven police, will learn from this and deny them permission, on the grounds of not being so stupid in the head.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Devonavar, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:42am

    Police Terrorism

    This is uncomfortably close to terrorism for me: Causing terror for political ends.

    It fits the definition far better than most things that terrorism laws seem to be used for.

    I think the lesson is supposed to be that you need the police to protect you from the bad guys™.

    The actual lesson seems to be that the police might kill you.

    We live in a fucked up world.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 9:43am

    Jewett Academy Principal Suspended Following Last Thursday's Lockdown Drill

    Jewett Academy Principal Suspended Following Last Thursday's Lockdown Drill”, by Sara Drumm, The Ledger, Tuesday, November 18, 2014
    The Polk County School District suspended a principal Tuesday and changed rules for lockdown drills following a controversial drill held at Jewett Middle Academy Magnet on Thursday.

    [...more...]

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:35am

    Am I a bad person for hoping someone shoots one of these simulated active shooters and kills them? To end this nonsense once and for all?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Tony (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:45am

    .

    I dread where this 'evolotion' of policing is going to end.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 10:50am

    Why not take this messed up thinking all the way. Let's have the police show up to the schools unannounced and tell some students their parents have been killed. After all, their parents will die one day and now they'll be better prepared. But let's not stop there. Let's have the police show up and tell the parents that their precious child has been raped and murdered. Could happen. And if it does, the parents are better prepared.

    If only the terrorist get to terrorize, then the terrorist have won.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:04am

    What is the point?

    What was this supposed to accomplish? What was this supposed to teach the children?
    The only things you need to know is when someone burst into your classroom with guns is that you do what they freaking tell you and hope they just want hostages, and if the shooting starts, you get the hell outta there or hide.
    It's bleak, but unless you have a good shot at actually overpowering this guy,(which most kids don't) being a hero will most likely get you and others killed.
    See I could maybe understand if they did a drill where they trained the students in where to go in case of emergencies like this, but when you are faced with a gunman or gunmen, the training is useless. Even those who work with this on a daily basis can tell you how the fear still gets them to fire on a gunman 144 times, and long after he is dead.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:34am

    this is beyond outrageous. i'm sitting here in numb shock that this actually happened.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Coyne Tibbets (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:49am

    A child will die

    Sooner or later, a child will die during one of these stupid drills. I don't know if it'll be some kind of shooting accident by a cop, security guard, or some helpful gun-carrying teacher; a terminal panic or asthma attack; some other medical emergency; or a fall or similar accident.

    But it's bound to happen at some point...and when it does, I wonder how they'll justify the cost-benefit ratio then?

    I mean, a Tucson high school student died in a fire drill, which is certainly less risky than a school shooter drill.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 12:46pm

    just incredible! especially the instances (perhaps not the one above) where the uninformed person was taken hostage - the officer ID'd himself afterwards - but WTF?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Personanongrata, 19 Nov 2014 @ 1:16pm

    Do It For The Kids...

    Every tyrant in human history has masked their tyranny behind the charade of keeping the children safe.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    kenichi tanaka (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:03pm

    The situation with this incident has gotten worse. The principle of this middle school has now been suspended over this. Huffington Post has a big writeup over this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/19/principal-suspended-shooting-drill-jewett-academy-jacq uelyn-moore_n_6188418.html

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:10pm

      Re:

      Umm, worse? In the sense that the principle should have been fired rather than suspended perhaps, but a suspension at least is something productive, rather than the usual denials and deflections when someone involved with running a school screws up.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:09pm

    I think these cops need an unannounced angry mob "drill."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:45pm

    Thank goodness. We've been planning a shoot-up at a middle school recently. The last thing we need is people expecting us.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    JBDragon (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 4:54pm

    There was a time when they had kids duck under their desks in case of a Nuke!!! So they had Nuke drills, for all the good that would do, and of course it didn't last.

    I think this gun thing is just a dumb idea. It scares kids for no good reason. Do you really think if it ever happened it's going to be at a school where the kids have been practacing. The Odds are pretty high that it'll never happen. But if it did, all this practice buy the kids will go right out the window!!!

    Here's a Idea, teachers with Guns!!! They'd be able to protect their kids!!! You're far less likely to go shooting up a school when you know there's teachers there with Guns. The last thing you want to do is have signs out side saying 'Gun Free Zone'!!! Now that's a easy target to kill a whole bunch of people before you run out of bullets and kill yourself.

    You can ban guns, it doesn't stop crazy people!!! There's been mass killings in schools in Japan for example and all that was used was a Knife!!! They don't have guns, but hey, a knife kills Kids just as well. Not quite as fast but works. Don't need a Gun or a Knife, just make a bomb! That's not hard to do. There's all kinds of things you can buy at Home Depot to kill a whole bunch of people. Should we ban Pressure Cookers? Ban Nails? ,Ban Pipes? Knifes, Ban a huge long list of things. you can still kill people with your bare hands if you want to.

    Having these types of drill will do NOTHING. Maybe it'll get the Teachers to lock the doors quicker for all the good that does as you can shoot out the lock if you wanted. These thing generally don't last long. A few minutes and it's over with, the damage is done.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:07pm

      Re:

      Here's a Idea, teachers with Guns!!! They'd be able to protect their kids!!!

      Better idea: Fire extinguisher in each classroom. Useful to deal with fire(which are much more likely to happen than a shooter), can incapacitate a shooter in a matter of seconds without requiring good aim, and a 'misfire' isn't going to get someone killed.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 5:15pm

    What if some of the teachers or students fought back? What would happen then?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Watchit (profile), 19 Nov 2014 @ 8:07pm

    PTA board member Calvelage is an idiot

    According to Calvelage, regarding students texting during the unanounced drill, "they shouldn’t be using their cells in class in the first place."

    *facepalm*

    why the hell would they NOT use their cellphones when they thought they were being attacked by a mad gunman?!?

    From this article:
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-active-shooter-drill-gun-toting-cop-angers/story?id=2692007 5

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Cal (profile), 20 Nov 2014 @ 9:03am

    This was terrorism pure and simple under our laws, used against the students and teachers, anyone else who was there.

    28 C.F.R. Section 0.85 Terrorism is defined as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives”.

    To not charge those who participated in ANY way in this is disgusting.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Dan G Difino, 20 Nov 2014 @ 9:45am

    Move Out of that Town

    I would immediately hire a lawyer or team of attorneys before they are all taken up and sue the school and police force. I would take my kids out of that school and move out of that school district and any neighboring districts where this might again be normal policy.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Nov 2014 @ 8:52pm

    conditioning children and the faculty to submit to the gestapos boot. Oh wait for some reason I heard this story and though it was back in 1940 with the Nazis. Silly me its contemporary police state america

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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