Copyright

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
france, hadopi, oversight, review, three strikes

Companies:
tmg



Leaked Report Admits That Hadopi First Strike Accusations Won't Be Reviewed For Accuracy

from the accuse-away! dept

As the French "three strikes" Hadopi process begins, with tens of thousands of notices being sent out to accused file sharers (their "first strike"), things may be even more ridiculous than previously assumed. Guillaume Champeau fills us in on the details of a leaked report from the French privacy commissioner (Google translation from the original French). Basically, the privacy commissioner CNIL admits that, due to the number of notices being sent, Hadopi will simply not be able to review the accusations for accuracy, and will need to accept the claims from TMG, the company hired by the entertainment industry to accuse people. Here's Champeau's summary:
"Rights holders have been authorized in June to collect IP addresses on P2P networks, by recruiting the services of the French company TMG. It will monitor P2P networks, store the IP addresses it believes illegally shares copyrighted works, and their rights holder customers will forward the ones they want to the French HADOPI.

Early this week, an internal report by the CNIL was leaked. The CNIL is the Privacy Commissioner in France. It is the Commission which has allowed rights holders to use the TMG services and collect IP addresses.

The report says that "due to the high number of expected cases (25 000 a day at first, then 150 000 a day), it is impossible for the [right holders' agents] to check the [infringement] reports one by one. Nonetheless, the system does not have particular control procedures, for instance by sampling, which would allow an agent to detect anomalies in a collection session".

It says that "the actions of the Hadopi will be limited to accepting or denying the transmitted findings, without the ability to check them. The first steps of the "three strikes" process will therefore lay only upon the collection operated by the TMG system".

Despite these concerns, the CNIL did authorize the right holders to collect the IP addresses, and did not oppose the 3 strikes process by the Hadopi.
Read that bold part carefully. What this is saying is that despite the fact that you can be kicked off the internet based solely on accusations, not convictions, and despite all of the problems with false accusations and the fact that an IP address alone does not accurately identify an individual, and despite the fact that the massive number of notices being sent out mean that there will surely be false positives, the only people reviewing these notices to make sure they're accurate will be employed by the agent hired by the copyright holders themselves. Due process? It's dead.

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  • icon
    crade (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:03pm

    I wonder about this part:
    Nonetheless, the system does not have particular control procedures, for instance by sampling, which would allow an agent to detect anomalies in a collection session"

    I would love to know what sort of anomolies they screen for.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:38pm

    Facepalm!

    Hell, they could at least feign some effort here. I mean, look, I realize that world governments are corrupt. I've accepted that. But don't just go around pissing on people's feet....

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:41pm

    Along these lines?

    "Sacre bleu! C'est le IP du le Presidente! C'est une anomolie!"

    *shreds*

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:49pm

    If played right, this leak could help the French Pirate Party, much like the Piratebay trial made the original Pirate Party gain over 9000 members.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Chris Maresca (profile), 23 Sep 2010 @ 12:38am

      Re:

      Actually, if they keep going like this, everyone in France will be off the internet in about 250 days...

      And that will do wonders for the cultural industries of France, I'm sure.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Cdaragorn (profile), 23 Sep 2010 @ 7:06am

        Re: Re:

        This is truer than you might think. Based on an estimated population of 62,277,432 in 2008, and 150,000 people per day, everyone would be off in about 415 days.

        Give it an extra month or two for the 3 strikes to hit, and all of France will be disconnected from the rest of the world in about a year and a half.

        Considering how many people are behind NAT's (get your internet through an apartment complex, share with neighbors, etc.), it might happen a lot sooner even than that.

        I wonder how long it will be before people start rioting?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    TDR, 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:51pm

    Perhaps it's time to arrange a meeting between these organizations' mainframes and a 12-gauge shotgun. This is just insanity. Utter, complete insanity.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Hephaestus (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 4:13pm

      Re:

      "This is just insanity. Utter, complete insanity."

      It is desperation not insanity. It is an attempt to hold back the tide. It is the second worst thing that the labels and studios could have done to protect themselves. The worst is actually jail time for infringement, which is coming in ACTA.

      You are dealing with people in a serious state of denial being "helped" by lawyers and lobbyists. The lawyer and lobbyists only goals are to make money for themselves. They will do anything asked of them no matter how self deluded the people or requests are.

      Don't worry about it. To use a music term the whole thing is coming to a crescendo. After which the system they are trying to support and create will collapse. Its the nature of bubbles and technological disruption.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:53pm

    What this is saying is that despite the fact that you can be kicked off the internet based solely on accusations, not convictions, and despite all of the problems with false accusations and the fact that an IP address alone does not accurately identify an individual, and despite the fact that the massive number of notices being sent out mean that there will surely be false positives, the only people reviewing these notices to make sure they're accurate will be employed by the agent hired by the copyright holders themselves. Due process? It's dead.
    -----------------

    Welcome to Napoleonic Law.
    This is standard procedure.

    Italian, Russian, and Eastern Europe law is even worse.

    Due process is an English/US law concept, not French.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Paul Renault (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 1:58pm

    You may wish to read INpact analysis, linked to in your Google Translate link:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcin pact.com%2Factu%2Fnews%2F59439-hadopi-surveillance-p2p-automatisme-cnil.htm

    I've D/L'ed thet French text, and need to digest it first.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 2:20pm

    I'm not worried people will just copy things offline and make use of proxies to connect to other places.

    And maybe people will realize that is time to stop buying that crap those people are trying to peddle and start shopping for free alternatives.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      crade (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 2:28pm

      Re:

      What do you mean? It has nothing to do with what people are doing, just whether or not they get notices sent to them. What does it matter if they copy stuff offline or not?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    dwind (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 2:38pm

    At a 150,000 per day

    And a population of 65,000,000 and maybe 4 per internet connection it shouldn't take long for France to go dark.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Qyiet (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 2:55pm

      Re: At a 150,000 per day

      By my maths with 42 million internet users it will take about two years, three months at 50,000 per day to send a takedown to every internet user in france. However I'll bet that there are far less connections than there are users. So mabey 6 months to get one to every internet connection, and 2 years to get everyone banned.

      I expect that this rate of notice publication is going to backfire very badly for the french government.

      http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=it_net_user&idim=country:FRA&a mp;dl=en&hl=en&q=number+of+internet+users+in+france

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Hephaestus (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 4:39pm

        Re: Re: At a 150,000 per day

        "So mabey 6 months to get one to every internet connection, and 2 years to get everyone banned."

        If I am remembering the number for France correctly 52% (22 million internet connections) of the country infringes on a regular basis (its way higher in spain). So not everyone will be disconnected or notified.

        What you should expect is a bell curve where ...

        The top 16.5% of the 22 million infringers to get notified often and very rapidly. This is the really techno savy crowd. They will quickly switch to VPN or other methods of infringement.

        Below that you have the 66% of average infringers these are the people who will get kicked off the internet. This is where the problems will occur for the labels and studios. Kids, old people, the not to smart, the newbies, the crazies. These are the people who will complain to the ISPs, sue, and contact their political reps. HADOPI will then be removed from the books and an internet fee much like the CD levy will be imposed. Which will also be removed under the same EU laws that got Spains CD levy removed.

        All in all the outcome is pretty predictable.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          abc gum, 22 Sep 2010 @ 7:38pm

          Re: Re: Re: At a 150,000 per day

          "If I am remembering the number for France correctly 52% (22 million internet connections) of the country infringes on a regular basis (its way higher in spain). So not everyone will be disconnected or notified. "

          You assume that only actual infringers will be accused, this is incorrect. Those falsely accused will hopefully be very vocal about it.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Ron Rezendes (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 2:49pm

    Queue the French Revolution...

    part deux in 3...2...1...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Jay (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 2:56pm

    Anyone else find this strangely ironic given it was the French who promoted and embraced the doctrine of separation of powers to essentially ensure no man could be judge, jury and executioner...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:08pm

    So Hadopi is asking the ISP's for information about its customers to that they can be kicked off the internet and no longer be paying customers.
    I am pretty sure the ISPs are not going to support this.
    What will happen if an ISP looses 10,000 customers? Do you think they will notice? Do you think they are going to hand over the next group of information as easily?
    Since the list is not being checked, can we add the Hadopi and TMG members names and IPs and see what happens?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:16pm

      Re:

      Exactly what I was thinking. Get the addresses of every government official and let the now internetless accused with tons of free time wardrive their homes. Breaking wifi security is simple now and after a portion of the government realize that they are being accused and have their internet removed without due process they might reconsider this law.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anon, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:59pm

        Re: Re:

        It's sad, but I think that is probably the easiest way to prove a point.

        You can just drive around searching for unsecured wifi or breaking wifi security of anyone you don't like and then downloading anything and everything that might show up on TMG radar.

        Or was wifi outlawed in France and this won't work?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          theo, 22 Sep 2010 @ 4:53pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Last time i talked to a French person, they did have a law that if you do not 'adequately' protect your wifi, you can be fined. I have no idea whether or not you can then still be held responsible for whatever is done with your network, but judging from this article, actual guilt has no relation with all this any more anyway.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Major, 23 Sep 2010 @ 1:39am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Actually, Its : you are as guilty as the one who used your connection because you didnt secure "it"; and the only way to prove it was secure is to install a spyware-like program to log everything you do...which do not exist yet (only the spec were leaked). And yes there can be a fine... or worse.

            God im gonna love trying to find the IPs of the people who voted this law and inject them in surveyed files :)

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Bad Analogy Guy, 23 Sep 2010 @ 5:27am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              That's like charging someone with armed robbery because they left their car unlocked, the real bad guy stole it, used it in the real crime and the police are too lazy to find him - so it's all your fault. Oh, and they want their money back too.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        dave, 23 Sep 2010 @ 9:14am

        Re: Re:

        you're assuming that anyone working for the ip, the rights holders and the gub'mint won't be on some kind of master "white list" that will prevent them from ever getting a strike against them.

        dave

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 23 Sep 2010 @ 2:52am

      Re:

      So Hadopi is asking the ISP's for information about its customers to that they can be kicked off the internet and no longer be paying customers.

      IIRC they still have to pay for the minimum term of contract (24 months?).

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        abc gum, 23 Sep 2010 @ 5:35am

        Re: Re:

        In a competitive market, this would drive things towards no contract, month to month arrangement. Sort of like what it used to be. btw, there are ISPs offering no contract mo-mo, ymmv.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:31pm

    Selective enforcement?

    "It will monitor P2P networks, store the IP addresses it believes illegally shares copyrighted works, and their rights holder customers will forward the ones they want to the French HADOPI."

    Only forward the one's they want? Nice - They'll filter out IP addresses of politicians, movie producers, etc. no doubt.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    hmm, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:36pm

    Does anyone else find this hilarious funny/extremely seriously dangerous that this is happening in FRANCE???

    I think the government there seems to have forgotten a little thing called 'The French Revolution'....oh wait, sorry this is Hollywood, they're probably hoping for Revolution II, so they can make a franchise out of it!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    hmm, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:40pm

    150,000 a day???

    population of France: 62,277,423.
    'naughty strikes' - 150,000 per day.
    therefore 62277423/150000 = 415days til everyones been served.

    415x3 = 1245 days until everyone in france is kicked off the net! (may take a bit longer since they aren't checking anything and will send strike letters to some people even AFTER they've been kicked off!).....

    I therefore predict if this all goes ahead, that madame guillotine will start her comeback tour sometime around June 2013.........

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Hephaestus (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 4:45pm

      Re: 150,000 a day???

      Thanks for the simple math. Not everyone infringes its about half the online population (44 million) and its a distributed curve.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Pontifex (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 6:51pm

        Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

        The beauty of this system is that it doesn't matter if you actually infringe. If you get reported, you have a strike. Sure, the half that doesn't infringe on copyright will probably have a lower rate of reports, but innocence is no defense against Hadopi.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Cdaragorn (profile), 23 Sep 2010 @ 7:24am

        Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

        You assume, again, that whether or not you actually infringed makes a difference. Go read the law again. They don't care if you're actually guilty.

        In fact, the way it reads, all they do is monitor the P2P networks and grab IP's off of them. Knowing how Hollywood thinks, I'll bet they just grab every IP they see using any P2P for anything and send it off to HADOPI.

        Much of the complaint against this law is that it takes "guilty until proven innocent" and tosses it out the window, giving complete power to whoever wants to kick anyone off the internet.

        Thus, his math, while certainly simple, is unfortunately accurate. I personally don't think it will take nearly as long as he says to get everyone off.

        Oh, and the 150,000/day figure? Ya, that comes directly quoted from the article. Go read it again.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          crade (profile), 23 Sep 2010 @ 8:41am

          Re: Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

          Is there actually anything that specifies it must come from monitoring P2P? I thought the only requirement was an acusation of copyright infringment. They could run out of P2P IPs and start sending them out for "undisclosed reasons" (random IPs) couldn't they?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Cdaragorn (profile), 24 Sep 2010 @ 4:42am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

            Actually, you're right. The law specifically talks about monitoring P2P networks for infringers, but there's absolutely nothing in place to check that that's where the IP's came from.

            This law gets worse and worse every time I look at it....

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2010 @ 3:55pm

    I'd be really curious what the French Press is saying about all this. Bloggers? Can we get a perspective from the people this impacts, (In English though, just to annoy anyone)

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    PrometheeFeu (profile), 22 Sep 2010 @ 6:24pm

    Well, it is possible to appeal. Actually, the law is so riddled with holes it is likely noone will get booted off the internet.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    abc gum, 22 Sep 2010 @ 7:43pm

    What about those who signed a contract with an ISP which includes an ETF? I doubt that many will pay their monthly bill when there is no service, and few will pay the ETF. Shit's gonna hit the fan.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Reed, 22 Sep 2010 @ 8:16pm

    Coming soon to a country near you!

    It really amazes me how the French who are generally concerned about privacy would allow this to happen.

    Needles to say TMG services could easily use this information they can acquire for uses outside of stopping "infringement". I say this only because when absolute power is granted it will inevitably become absolutely corrupted.

    Scary time to be in France considering that they have effectively privatized a portion of their legal system. I think the term for that is Fascism.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Androgynous Cowherd, 27 Sep 2010 @ 12:09am

    Time to start submitting random French government website, office, and laser printer IP addresses to torrent trackers as supposedly willing to share infringing files, then.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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