Threads Bans Anyone For Mentioning Hitler, Even To Criticize

from the yeah-that-should-be-an-easy-call? dept

Quick test: should saying “Hitler, not a good guy” cause you to be banned from your social media account? Seems simple enough. But apparently not for Meta, the largest social media company on the planet.

I’ve talked about the Masnick Impossibility Theorem and the idea that content moderation is impossible to do well at scale. Part of that explains why there will be a near constant stream of “mistakes” in content moderation. Sometimes this is because people just disagree over what is proper, and sometimes it’s just because the scale part means that mistakes will be made. Obvious, blindingly stupid responses.

Last year, we released the free Moderator Mayhem game, where players act as front line moderators for a social media review site, where they have to make a large number of important decisions under pressure. In one of the rounds, the player is told that a new “AI” driven moderation tool is being introduced, which is supposed to help pre-filter decisions.

When the AI moderator is introduced, the game immediately starts tossing up some hilariously mistaken decisions, often based on the sort of fairly obvious errors that a human would catch, but a computer might miss. For example, the AI blocks someone posting a review of a baseball pitcher because of the phrase “killer arm” and blocks a review of a chicken restaurant with the name “Cock-a-Doodle-Doo.” There are many more like that.

When the game first came out, I worried that some of these examples were a bit over the top. I worried that, as AI-driven tools got better, that portion of the game would feel increasingly unrealistic. However, I’m now thinking that this section of the game may have actually been even more accurate than I could have predicted.

Over the last few weeks, Meta’s attempt at microblogging, “Threads,” has been caught up in a few moderation scandals that seem pretty likely to have been caught up by terribly simplistic algorithmic bans. First, there was a story about how Threads was blocking and sometimes suspending users for mentioning the word “cracker” or “cracker jacks”:

Yes, in some contexts, the word “cracker” can be seen as a slur. But, most humans looking this over would recognize in context that it was not used that way here.

Then, more recently, Washington Post reporter Drew Harwell found himself suspended for calling out a Washington Post colleague for criticizing Hitler. First WaPo’s Amanda Katz had posted something on Threads saying “Do… do people know what Hitler did” and got suspended.

Then, Harwell posted about Katz’s suspension, mentioning Hitler by saying “Threats suspended [Washington Post Opinions Editor Amanda Katz] for this. She tells me, “I stand by my views of Hitler. Not a good guy.” And Threads suspended him for that as well.

Harwell notes that the suspension happened almost immediately, again suggesting that Threads’ algorithmic checker has an auto-suspension for merely mentioning Hitler (which will certainly change the Godwin’s Law equation on Threads). This seemed particularly stupid given that the original was in response to Donald Trump literally praising Hitler.

Eventually, the accounts were restored. And, at least on the “cracker” case, Instagram/Threads boss Adam Mosseri claimed that the mistake came from human moderators who somehow were not provided the right tools to view the “context of how conversations played out.”

Sure, that can happen. I’ve talked in the past about the importance of understanding context, and how many content moderation failures are due to the lack of context. But it seems difficult to see how the largest social media company on the planet wouldn’t have tools in place that let you look at “I stand by my views of Hitler. Not a good guy” and think you don’t have the context to realize that post is probably not hate speech.

That said, some of this may also come down to the constant drumbeat and criticism of Meta over its moderation choices in the past. There’s a reason why the company has increasingly said that it doesn’t want to be a platform for discussing politics or the latest news (and actively downranks such content in its algorithms).

But also, come on. These kinds of mistakes are the sorts of things you’d expect to see in a brand new startup run by two dudes in a coffee shop, who hacked together some free-off-GitHub code to handle moderation. Not a company worth $1.5 trillion.

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Comments on “Threads Bans Anyone For Mentioning Hitler, Even To Criticize”

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Anonymous Coward says:

Lmfao. I skipped Twitter (aside from some work-related IOC feeds when it was useful for that) and Threads both.

Bluesky is the one that finally caught my attention and got me to sign up. I can happily confirm that saying “Hitler was bad” on Bluesky does not result in any punishment.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

The term “crackerjack” is also reported as meaning “of excellent quality.”

Which is how it became a pejorative term for white people: black people called it white people who apparently thought they were inherently better than “dirty n*****s.” Personally, I disagree. No one is inherently better than someone else just because they happen to be of a certain ethnicity and the other person isn’t.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

They were also known for having “prizes” in the box:
The prizes attained pop-culture status with the phrase “came in a Cracker Jack box”

For example, one could disparage someone’s driving by saying they must have got their license from a Cracker Jack box. (But I think by 1990 or so, it was already an “old person thing”. It’s a snack I’ve only ever heard of, never eaten or noticed in stores or vending machines.)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Nobody’s questioning whether it still exists. There’s lots of stuff that’s still produced, but not really mass-market anymore. Maybe Cracker Jack sits unnoticed on some shelf of my local grocery store; I don’t know. I don’t remember ever getting it for Halloween, nor did I hear of anyone else getting it or being excited to collect the prizes. It’s just something that an uncle or grandmother would occasionally drop into a conversation.

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Cracker Jacks

Cracker Jacks in the 1970s had actual toy prizes. Still cheap plastic but a 3D object like a car or a compass.

By the late 80s the prize was a book of small, silly temporary tattoos, every time.

In the 1990s better caramel popcorn products started appearing (without the candied peanuts few liked) which were preferred by my Cracker-Jack sources. Also I wasn’t going to baseball games much at that point, but it doesn’t surprise me that the Cracker-Jack prize was phased out.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

The pre-brand meanings are still from earth, as are the non-related perjoratives.

Certainly, these are all heavily centered in the US, but so are big-brand platforms, their moderators, and moderation algorithm composers/trainers.

Shorter: Being repeatedly stupid about the phrase in moderation is not a particularly good job of work. But maybe they are so siloed they haven’t heard of search engines, either.

No actual complaint on the phrase expansion, it’s good.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

True, but i neither claimed nor implied that, nor do i belive the US to be the “default culture”. These are all US-based comments and operations. (And good luck to everyone outside the white anglo-US culture who get moderated by these platforms.)

Also America is two whole continents and then some, not just the US, since we’re discussing what “”Americans” think”. That’s yet another lazy US arrogation.

Anon says:

I ssume...

I assume when Elon Musk originally wanted to buy ExTwitter, he had the same optimism about AI that impells his drive for his FSD work – that AI could do as good or better job at moderation than humans (and much cheaper). Unfortunately humans are much more complex and mendacious, and context is alway hard to discern, innuendo and implications can be extremely subtle. Humans have decades of language learning and social interaction and the ground is aalways shifting on what means what. “Crackers” is the least of it.

Larry Niven had a short story involving this in his Man-Kzin Wars where someone uses the phrase “sliced the loaf with the breadknife” to tell another person what happened – ramscoop ship used high-power communication laser to cut in half an alien attacker – without alerting the omnipresent antisocial filtering on all phone calls and other communications. 30 years ago it was obvious that AI systems would have no concept of figurative nuances.

Anonymous Coward says:

That’s AI: a solution looking for a problem.
And now they’ve found what they think is the problem: employees. Too much money spent in AI so much less remaining for wages.
And since most companies are built in a pyramidal shape, you start from bottom to top: technicians, then engineers, salesmen, managers, executives and finally the boss.
The more it goes, the more expensive theses AI will become and so, the more people need to be “replaced” to justify AI cost, and less they are to decide who’s going the remain.
This was supposed to make the whole Humanity obsolete, from what we’ve actually got, it’s more theses companies that are becoming obsoletes for Humanity.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Yes, in some contexts, the word “cracker” can be seen as a slur.

The only context I can think of is “white people looking to be offended by marginalized people”. I mean, “cracker” can technically be a slur against white people, but let’s not act like it carries the same sociopolitical weight as slurs such as the N-word.

These kinds of mistakes are the sorts of things you’d expect to see in a brand new startup run by two dudes in a coffee shop, who hacked together some free-off-GitHub code to handle moderation. Not a company worth $1.5 trillion.

I dunno, I’m pretty sure Elon Musk would make the exact same mistakes if he had made his own social media service instead of buying a perfectly good one (to run into the ground).

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

These kinds of mistakes are the sorts of things you’d expect to see in a brand new startup run by two dudes in a coffee shop, who hacked together some free-off-GitHub code to handle moderation. Not a company worth $1.5 trillion.

I dunno, I’m pretty sure Elon Musk would make the exact same mistakes if he had made his own social media service instead of buying a perfectly good one (to run into the ground)

Nope. Elon would insist on writing the code himself; the first two versions would simply flag everything.

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Cracker (White Person)

From Wikipedia: _Cracker, sometimes cracka or white cracker, is a racial epithet directed towards white people, used especially with regard to poor rural whites in the Southern United States. Although commonly a pejorative, it is also used in a neutral context, particularly in reference to a native of Florida or Georgia (see Florida cracker and Georgia cracker)

It seems to come from the verb crack, meaning to speak loudly (e.g. to crack a joke) so is a stereotype of loud bravado, e.g. What cracker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath? — William Shakespeare, King John

Entirely news to me: I thought it was related to soda crackers the way that white Midwest suburbian culture is called white-bread or wonder-bread.

Anonymous Coward says:

Just in case anyone from the Threads moderation tools development team reads this: I’d like to point out that Hitler is a German last name. Now, a lot of people changed their last name following what one Adolf Hitler did in the 1940s, but there are still plenty of people named Hitler today, most of whom are pretty upstanding citizens, probably in part because of the burden of the last name they carry.

Banning someone because they mentioned that last name would be akin to banning someone because they mentioned Zuckerberg, without adding the context of which Zuckerberg was referenced, or why.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

No. And even if he did, so what? Glenn Greenwald is a hack.

Also: “double-em”? Are you actually fucking afraid of saying Mike’s name? oh my god you’re a huge fucking coward what the fuck aaaaaaaahahahahahaha everyone point and laugh at the scaredy-cat who’s too scared to say a name omfg ahahaha what a loser

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Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Circumventing Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies

In the aughts I took more than a basic interest in the principal administrative figures of the German Reich, since the George W. Bush administration was doing things that bad-guys did in movies to show they were bad and we were supposed to dislike them. (Particularly, in 2003, Republicans on the street were endorsing extrajudicial torture, or claiming that waterboarding was not torture. It was Bizarro.)

This interest and study turned out to be useful since there were very real examples of how the US was getting a bit reichy and yet the right would invoke Godwin’s Law, insisting that comparison to Nazis was hyperbole.

But then sometimes people or agencies said or did things that could be directly comparable to what a given person did in the German Reich.

A good example is how Heydrich’s Sicherheitsdienst were ordered only to hunt, arrest and detain undesirables if they were felons with a criminal record. And Heydrich promised to do so. But instead the SD went after everyone they could find. Detention centers quickly filled up (and would be expanded into the concentration camp system) which fueld the Jewish question

Cut to the 2010s in which ICE was tasked with finding, arresting, detaining and deporting immigrants who were undocumented and convicted violent felons. They were already interested in hunting immigrants that didn’t fit target parameters when Trump increased their latitude. And of course the detention centers overflowed, we had to outsource detainment to for-profit companies and they became riddled with filth and disease, even before the COVID-19 epidemic hit the United States.

We don’t have to compare anyone to Hitler, or call anyone Nazis. The Republican Party is walking the same walk and dancing the same dance. And saying the same things.

I suppose it’s only a matter of time before Threads outlaws mentions of Himmler, Goebbels or Heydrich, possibly a couple of dozen other historical names of people who informed NSDAP ideology.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

To be fair, transphobes like him likely believe the same bullshit about any sexual orientation that isn’t “heterosexual”. And they’re more likely to view women as property, given that transphobia is usually rooted in religion and Christianity doesn’t have a…let’s say, progressive view of women. (Consider how the Bible condemns Eve for eating a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, then consider how Adam eating the apple would’ve been treated.) Misogyny and queerphobia really do go hand-in-hand, when you think about it.

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 "Engineered a political movement"

Are you talking about the libertines in 18th and 19th century France who sought to stress test the limits of liberty (the right to do what you will, an’ it harm none)?

That was part of the point of the American and French revolutions (even though power structures failed in both cases to commit all the way. Social progress is slow.)

As was established in the Napoleonic code and the Federalist Papers, everyone should be free to do whatever it is they want with only minimal limits for causing harm and disturbing the peace. This not only assures liberty but also is good for the development of culture, as has been demonstrated historically. (Such as the British post-war cultural boom)

That someone wants to identify as other than their assigned birth gender, to represent accordingly and to use restrooms and gender-segregated services accordingly is far removed from those limits.

Historically those persecuted for counterculture behavior are the ones on the underside of the power structure, and when this manifests, it’s a sign that the ownership class is looking once again to consolidate and polarize power. The stripping of rights follows, as does purges and war on false pretenses.

Once again no war but class war.

Attacks on trans persons and their right to exist as themselves is historically a specific early sign that institutionalized power is looking to encroach itself on the public, much the way attacks on porn are historically a symptom of an interest by power structures to suppress political speech.

When trans folk lose their rights, yours are next.

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Following the worms

In the current political clime I can’t tell if you’re trolling or you’re serious, because a lot of people are looking for someone to hate on rather than at their own needs not being met.

Here’s the thing, unless you’re a billionaire, or a snuggly close billionaire’s pet, you’re on the list. It’s immigrants and transgender folk today but tomorrow it’ll be non-Christians, and then the wrong Christians. And then it’ll be Christian nationalists who aren’t nationalist enough, barren women, anyone who isn’t having at least three kids.

Ultimately, your snappy salute will not be snappy enough to save you, and you’ll be packed on the cattle cars with the rest of us, even if you were the loyalist packing the trains yesterday.

A poetic fate, maybe, for a common Sturmabteilung. If you’re lucky you’ll just get culled when your commander becomes politically inconvenient for the movement’s principal leaders.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Only one way this can go really...

Cue republicans screeching about ‘anti-conservative bias!’ for the platform having the audacity to flag anyone mentioning one of their heroes, and Zuckerberg throwing himself at their feet and promising that he’ll get right on solving such an egregious mistake.

Arijirija says:

One rather cynical chappie about a couple and a half millennia ago said something to the effect that there’s nothing new under the sun. He also said basically everybody’s nuts, and the best thing to do is simply to relax and enjoy the ride, and his name was not Slartibartfast.

People like Adolf Hitler, Josef Djugashvili aka Stalin, etc, always draw fascinated crowds of horrified – and sometimes sympathetic – viewers because they are so extreme. But as their disease is addiction to power, and everybody’s got a bit of that inside them, they’re also a useful guide to what NOT to do.

And as such, since the people – losers mostly – who want to do the same sorts of things always crop up sooner or later, it’s in everybody’s interest to have the critical comments as well.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Harwell notes that the suspension happened almost immediately, again suggesting that Threads’ algorithmic checker has an auto-suspension for merely mentioning Hitler…

Really? Why?

This seemed particularly stupid given that the original was in response to Donald Trump literally praising Hitler.

Ah, it seems as though Mark Zuckerberg is pursuing a bromance with Orange Hitler, and he’s thus taking down anything that might hurt his chances of a friendship with the Dictator for Life (if Agent Orange gets his way this month).

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Anonymous Coward says:

Your claim about Trump literally praising Hitler is false. The story doesn’t even mention who claims this. It just says two people that heard it while there are several people who were there that claims this is false. Reminds me of the Jan 6 hoax and the witness that Liz Cheney is accused of communicating with through encrypted apps getting her to fire her lawyer and accepting one that Liz recommended which did it pro-bono and then the woman changed her story claiming someone told her Trump lunged at the wheel in the limo on Jan 6 and made several other crazy claims all on hearsay. Just more bogus claims from the left and it just eats away at the medias credibility more and more

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

It just says two people that heard it while there are several people who were there that claims this is false.

When it comes to Donald Trump, you can assume that unless there is video evidence to exonerate him, anyone who says he said or did something outrageous is telling the truth. We know who he is; if his entire public existence up to his inauguration in 2017⁠—including the Access Hollywood tape⁠—didn’t tell you who he is, you’re probably deluded into thinking he’s the Second Coming. People who have too much to lose by crossing Trump will never say anything that (directly) embarasses him or paints him in a bad light. People who would rather risk losing it all to stop kissing his ass will tell the truth because, much like saying the Emperor has no clothes, telling the truth about a fascist is, has been, and always will be an courageous act of rebellion.

I know who Donald Trump is. I lived through his presidency, I heard all his bullshit, and I don’t think the people who said he praised Hitler are lying. Trump already admits to a love of strong authoritarian figures. He has used Nazi-esque rhetoric about immigrants, different ethnic and religious groups, and even American citizens who disagree with him. The man is a fascist surrounded by wannabe fascists who are preparing to commit another coup of the American government should Trump lose the election. How much more evidence do you need when there are multiple stories about right-wing election officials looking to find any way to delay certification of the election⁠—up to the point where the U.S. House of Representatives would have to vote for the winner⁠—if and only if Trump loses? How much more would it take for you to believe Trump is a fascist when Project 2025 is a thing and many of the people behind it are already angling for jobs within a potential Trump administration? How would an explicit Nazi salute make his fascist leanings any more visible to you than they already would be if you were paying attention?

Uriel-238 (profile) says:

Assassins in the 21st century

This is the first I’ve heard of [Trump] engaging in any [assassination attempts].

Considering the way political figures engage in assassination in the US (mostly), he’s done plenty. The common approach is for a political personality to engage in incitement. One example of Trump doing so is his Second Amendment People quote.

If [Clinton] gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know. — Donald J. Trump, August 9, 2016.

Trump is notorious for speech inciting violence, and while common folk making such statements online can result in visits from law enforcement or even arrests and jail time (even when they’re ambiguous and direct quotes from lyrics), figures with wealth and fame are curiously not prosecuted, even when people are more likely to act on them.

The most evident example of using incitement to provoke radicalized followers (that I can think of) is the assassination of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009. The assassin had been watching Bill O’Reilly’s show which had repeatedly disparaged the doctor for being a provider of late-term abortions. Roeder was already radicalized but O’Reilly gave him a direction and a target. After the shooting, O’Reilly had other FOX News pundits assure him on camera that he wasn’t responsible for the unfortunate incident.

That said, the first shooter who targeted Trump was Republican-leaning and had been researching venues for both Trump and (then-candidate) Biden, and Trump just was closer. As for the second one, he’s kept quiet and AFAIK has not shown political affiliation, but my data is old.

But CIA modus operandi in the 21st century when we don’t want to do a drone strike (in which case everyone knows we did it) is to take a page from Islamists who tap their endless sources of pre-radicalized angry young men. Similarly CIA will search for pre-radicalized subjects and then groom them to go after an intended target. It often doesn’t work at all, but when it does, by the time there’s an investigation, the operative is long vanished into air.

There is one time that Trump, as president, did command a hit. Michael Reinoehl, a protestor in Portland during the George Floyd unrest in 2020 who was allegedly ANTIFA, and had allegedly killed Patriot Prayer supporter Aaron Danielson. Reinoehl was targeted by the US Marshal Service and gunned down even though he was unarmed (and didn’t really get a chance to resist), after which Trump bragged about the takedown to news correspondents. It’s an example of Trump using the US justice system to attack political enemies, but since Reinoehl was just a Portland commoner, the incident hasn’t been investigated.

But it sets a precedent of what we can expect in a second Trump term.

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