First Cracks Appear: Some Conservatives Admit We’re In A Constitutional Crisis

from the wake-up dept

When even the Wall Street Journal’s reliably pro-Trump opinion page starts sounding alarm bells about the administration’s policies, something significant has shifted. When even the “thinkers” at the most MAGA of think tanks are calling what Elon is doing in the government a true “constitutional crisis,” we’re beginning to see cracks in the snow globe of propaganda MAGA has encased themselves within.

It’s not that these institutions have suddenly discovered their conscience. Rather, they’re realizing that the destruction-for-destruction’s-sake approach they helped normalize is now threatening the very systems they assumed they could control. The mask of “policy differences” has slipped, revealing the bare face of institutional vandalism.

The responses I’ve received to recent articles about the Musk/Trump administration’s actions reveal a stark truth: for many supporters, the goal isn’t better policy or stronger institutions — it’s the satisfaction of watching their perceived opponents suffer. “Elections have consequences,” they say, wielding the phrase not as a statement about governance but as a celebration of retribution.

But it doesn’t change reality.

The MAGA response playbook has become pathetically predictable: celebrate policies not for their outcomes, but for how many (and which) people they hurt. It’s governance by spite, where “owning the libs” has replaced any pretense of actual policymaking.

The depth of this depravity became starkly visible right after the inauguration. When Episcopal Bishop Mariann Budde made what should have been an unremarkable request — asking the new administration to show mercy toward the marginalized — the response revealed exactly how far things have strayed from traditional conservative values of compassion and measured governance.

Trump labeled her “nasty,” his supporters raged at the mere suggestion of kindness, and a Republican Congressman called for her deportation (despite her being an American citizen), transforming a moment of fairly standard religious pleas for compassion into yet another opportunity for political revenge.

Budde now faces a barrage of violent threats. The irony of threatening violence in response to a plea for mercy perfectly encapsulates the nature of this ongoing coup: it’s not about conservative governance or even maintaining power — it’s about systematic destruction of democratic norms and institutions, laced with gleeful spite and hatred.

Timothy Snyder, whose “On Tyranny” has become an essential guidebook for understanding this moment, explains this destructive logic with devastating clarity:

Theirs is a logic of destruction. It is very hard to create a large, legitimate, functioning government. The oligarchs have no plan to govern. They will take what they can, and disable the rest. The destruction is the point. They don’t want to control the existing order. They want disorder in which their relative power will grow.

Think of the federal government as a car. You might have thought that the election was like getting the car serviced. Instead, when you come into the shop, the mechanics, who somehow don’t look like mechanics, tell you that they have taken the parts of your car that work and sold them and kept the money. And that this was the most efficient thing to do. And that you should thank them.

The gap between the oligarchs’ wealth and everyone else’s will grow. Knowing what they themselves will do and when, they will have bet against the stock market in advance of Trump’s deliberately destructive tariffs, and will be ready to tell everyone to buy the crypto they already own. But that is just tomorrow and the day after.

In general, the economic collapse they plan is more like a reverse flood from the Book of Genesis, in which the righteous will all be submerged while the very worst ride Satan’s ark. The self-chosen few will ride out the forty days and forty night. When the waters subside, they will be alone to dominate.

Snyder’s analysis helps explain the transformation we’ve witnessed over the past decade, as traditional conservative principles of limited government gave way to what can only be described as performative destruction. The goal has devolved from governance to grievance, from policy to punishment.

Yet cracks are appearing in this façade of unified destruction. Traditional conservatives, particularly those with actual policy expertise, are beginning to realize that their movement has been hijacked by forces that threaten the very institutions they once sought to reform. The evidence of this awakening is limited, but is appearing in unexpected places.

Consider the Wall Street Journal’s opinion page, traditionally a bastion of pro-Trump sentiment, which recently published a scathing critique of the administration’s self-defeating tariff strategy. And then, when Trump tried to spin his own backing down in return for basically nothing as a Trump win, even the WSJ called out (correctly) that it was Canada and Mexico who stood strong, while it was Trump who blinked.

The details of this diplomatic theater are revealing. Mexico’s commitment to maintain 10,000 National Guard troops at the border isn’t new — it’s the exact same arrangement they made with the Biden administration in 2021. Similarly, Canada’s pledge of $1.3 billion for border security was already announced months ago in coordination with Biden’s team.

This episode perfectly illustrates the hollowness of the administration’s approach to governance: announce dramatic action, back down when faced with actual resistance, then claim victory for maintaining exactly what was already in place. It’s governance as performance art, where the goal isn’t policy success but the spectacle of conflict itself.

The fact that the WSJ wouldn’t play along is at least a surprising crack in the MAGA propaganda machine.

The administration’s attempt to spin maintaining the status quo as a victory would be merely amusing if it weren’t symptomatic of a deeper crisis. And this brings us to perhaps the most striking evidence of actual conservatives potentially awakening from a MAGA-drenched stupor.

When senior fellows at the Manhattan Institute — yes, the same think tank that gave us Chris Rufo and perfected the art of manufacturing absolutely ridiculous culture war outrage — start warning about an ongoing constitutional crisis, it’s worth paying attention. This is the organization that wrote the MAGA playbook, now apparently worried their creation has escaped the lab.

Brian Riedl, a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, with a career spanning service to multiple Republican leaders, is now warning about the constitutional crisis triggered by Trump and Musk’s actions. And yes, he’s making it clear he means a “constitutional crisis.” When he and Alan Cole of the Tax Foundation — another conservative stronghold — both characterize the situation as a “constitutional crisis,” it represents more than just policy disagreement. It’s alarm bells coming from inside the house.

Riedl’s critique becomes even more pointed when addressing those within his own ideological camp who appear willing to sacrifice democratic principles in favor of dictatorial chaos:

I see a lot of people want to throw out 230 years of constitutional government and replace it with an authoritarian dictator because they have big feelings about the budget and can’t be bothered to work through Congress. That will surely work out well.

If this ongoing coup is to be stopped, it needs to be because there still remain some Republicans with actual conservative, Constitutionally-based principles, who realize that “destruction” alone can’t be the goal. What good is owning the libs if there’s no country left at all?

In Snyder’s piece about destruction, he notes that to some extent, it’s those people who are going to have to wake up and speak out, noting that this is not what they asked for:

If you voted Republican, and you care about your country, please act rather than rationalize. Unless you cast your ballot so that South African oligarchs could steal your data, your money, your country, and your future, make it known to your elected officials that you wanted something else. And get ready to protest with people with whom you otherwise disagree.

Almost everything that has happened during this attempted takeover is illegal. Lawsuits can be filed and courts can order that executive orders be halted. This is crucial work.

As he notes:

What is a country? The way its people govern themselves. Sometimes self-government just means elections. And sometimes it means recognizing the deeper dignity and meaning of what it means to be a people. That means speaking up, standing out, and protesting. We can only be free together.

This isn’t about policy disagreements or partisan disputes. It’s about recognizing that the politics of destruction, even when wrapped in the flag of “winning,” leads inevitably to collective loss. The response to Bishop Budde’s plea for mercy stands as a stark reminder: when basic human dignity becomes a partisan issue, we’ve already begun to lose what makes America worth preserving.

The path forward, if our democracy is to survive, almost certainly requires an unlikely coalition of those who still believe in constitutional democracy, regardless of their policy preferences. The question isn’t whether we can agree on policies — it’s whether we can agree that having a functional constitutional system matters more than scoring political points or eagerly looking to see who will be most upset.

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Comments on “First Cracks Appear: Some Conservatives Admit We’re In A Constitutional Crisis”

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Anonymous Coward says:

The responses I’ve received to recent articles about the Musk/Trump administration’s actions reveal a stark truth: for many supporters, the goal isn’t better policy or stronger institutions — it’s the satisfaction of watching their perceived opponents suffer. “Elections have consequences,” they say, wielding the phrase not as a statement about governance but as a celebration of retribution.

There’s so much important in that paragraph. As I said you can’t base a civilization off hate. But that’s exactly what some people are trying to do. But doing that is literally self destructive.

If it was only themselves they were destroying it would still be alarming. But this sort of approach to civilization is an existential threat. It will either destroy the civilization, or saner minds will prevail, and the course will be changed.

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Bloof (profile) says:

The millionaire class are beginning to realise they’re not in line to profit from Elon and Don ripping the copper wiring out of the walls of government, and all their investments will collapse in value when everything stops working. When the dust settles, a lot of people are going to be looking for answers or revenge and people like Peter Thiel and Elon will be well beyond their, reach… But the second tier rich who enabled this, they won’t.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

It’s governance as performance art, where the goal isn’t policy success but the spectacle of conflict itself.

Given that Trump’s job right before he ran for president the first time was effectively “reality show host”, this really shouldn’t be all that surprising. A good chunk of his entire schtick is about vague “cliffhanger” announcements followed by “we’ll see what happens” or somesuch, none of which have much substance to them but create the appearance of a man who’s playing 4D chess and thinking ten moves ahead of everyone else when he’s mostly repeating shit that the last person who kissed his ass said to him. He might believe some of the things he says⁠—mostly the racist, sexist, and xenophobic bullshit⁠—but to think he has any kind of strength beyond his own arrogance is ridiculous.

Donald Trump is a coward, a bigot, a liar, and a convicted fraudster. Any time he claims some sort of victory, everyone should be asking if he really did notch a W⁠—and in the rare case that he did, everyone should be asking who really got the job done for him.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Given that Trump’s job right before he ran for president the first time was effectively “reality show host”, this really shouldn’t be all that surprising

It’s not hard to make the case that Trump’s whole career has been performance art. Several people have estimated that Trump’s investment returns, resulting from decades of working in real estate, are roughly equivalent to what could’ve been obtained by dumping all the money obtained from Fred Trump (inheritance and untaxed gifts) into index funds, and not working.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

the extreme parts were cleaved off and the useful ones were kept on (see: most of west germany’s political establishment and officials, continuity of nazi-run or -allied businesses, ratlines to latin america and the US, stay-behind armies, etc.).

the preconditions that gave rise to nazis continued relatively unscathed: white supremacy, imperialism, antisemitism, sexual and gender hierarchies

so yes while the nazis were defeated but fascism remained (and remains) a viable option by a reactionary ruling class during political and economic crises.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Have you not been kicking enough puppies lately Koby?

But hey, there’s some good news for you! If sanity IS resorted, you’ll be able to go on hating, just as hard as you can, every.

But if it’s not… you seem like the kind of creature that wouldn’t be too far down the list to be on the chopping block. After all, those who can only offer ass kissing, aren’t as valuable as ass kissing AND money/power/foreign relations.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

The no-name “conservative” think tankers are the only ones who suppose we’re in a crisis.

You keep believing it’ll stay that way. But considering Trump and his bestest buddy (and unelected/unappointed “special government employee”) Elon Musk are trying to undermine the power of the legislative branch by dismantling USAID without Congressional approval and therefore neuter the only real form of representative government at the federal level? I’d call that a crisis⁠—and it’s one that will eventually put Trump at odds with the Congresspeople who wanted him in power so they could have more power.

Bloof (profile) says:

Re:

The conservative thinktank guys are the ones who’ve spent the past 40 years getting us to this point, so by all means, keep turning on them. There is no way creating a schism between the screeching maga lunatics and the people who actually know how to get the evil things you want done can possibly end poorly. Go after the religious right too while you’re at it, they seem to think there’s a higher power that isn’t Trump so they’re not true believers.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

you think conservative think tanks are responsible for a hugely bloated government, and foreign aid grift that goes almost exclusively to far lefty NGOs?

Well, they’re not responsible for the “small government” that doesn’t exist outside of the minds of assholes who think “small government” means “small enough to fit into your home and control what you say and do” (especially in regards to women and their bodies).

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Bloof (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

It’s fascinating to watch the right wing posters get your talking points and parrot them in unison, how things that were never mentioned once in years of posting suddenly become this huge deal you bring up in every topic. A month agon you likely couldn’t spell USAID, nevermind explain why it’s the biggest scam to ever scamnthe scam because a man who receives billions in government subsidies told you so. When he decides he cares about women’s sportsnagain, I’m sure you’ll be here finding some way to make that the center of your universe again.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

watch the right wing posters get your talking points and parrot them in unison

It’s just that way in which you are wrong is so obvious.

couldn’t spell USAID, nevermind explain why it’s the biggest scam

It’s not the biggest scam. It’s a little baby scam. There are waaaaaayyyyy bigger fish to fry. But you gotta start somewhere. If you’re upset by this I really can’t wait to see your selfie video tears in a month or two.

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Strawb (profile) says:

The responses I’ve received to recent articles about the Musk/Trump administration’s actions reveal a stark truth: for many supporters, the goal isn’t better policy or stronger institutions — it’s the satisfaction of watching their perceived opponents suffer. “Elections have consequences,” they say, wielding the phrase not as a statement about governance but as a celebration of retribution.

How dare you! Matty would be very upset if he could read!

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Democracy is not a constitutional crisis

USAID was started by executive order, actually. If an agency was started by and EO, it ABSOLUTELY can be ended by and EO. Any funds that will still be distributed will go through the main state dept instead.

Everything Musk is doing is legal, and no, he’s not an “official”, but yes he is authorized and has clearance.

Trump WON on tariffs, he didn’t blink, pay attention, and anyone trying to tell you that is lying. WSJ also not terribly conservative.

Protip: Jennifer Rubin and David French aren’t conservatives, either.

A whole lotta of corruption and grift and fraud is going to be exposed and you’re gonna whine and cry and lie about it the whole time.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

A whole lotta of corruption and grift and fraud is going to be exposed

Hey, so, if Elon Musk was one of the beneficiaries of that corruption and grift and fraud, do you think he’s going to expose his own wrongdoing, or do you think he’s going to cover it up since he and his pimple-faced techbro cohorts have access to all the systems and information he would need to do exactly that?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You don’t even have a question.

I do, but you’re unwilling to answer it. Then again, maybe it’s phrased in a way that’s hard for someone who regularly uses ableist slurs to understand, so I’ll rephrase it for you.

Yes or no: If Elon Musk was one of the beneficiaries of the corruption and grift and fraud that you allege was going on at USAID, do you believe he would expose his own wrongdoing with the information he took from USAID?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Musk is much less likely to be corrupt than most of the government that already has access to those records and funds.

It’s not like Musk

  • Was head of a crypto pump-and-dump scheme
  • Has killed public works projects with fraudulent claims
  • Suppresses any anti-Musk speech on his own social media platform
  • Is the biggest beneficiary of public welfare even before becoming a government agent
  • Spreads disinformation on a scale only rivalled by Rupert Murdoch and Trump himself
  • Is allegedly addicted to ketamine

Oh wait…

MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Musk is much less likely to be corrupt than most of the government that already has access to those records and funds.

Trump and Musk are the embodiment of pure corruption. They are businessmen running the government to benefit their own wealth. You can’t get more corrupt than that. They are literally all about money in politics. Everything you’re cheering where they’re taking away Congressionally-allocated funds that they don’t legally control is corruption.

This is “Freedom is slavery” levels of brainwashed propaganda.

Not that you’re ever inclined to answer questions, but what’s an example of a behavior by Trump or Musk that you would actually consider to be corrupt? I’m guessing “vote Democrat” or something partisan and petty like that.

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Koby (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Hey, so, if Elon Musk was one of the beneficiaries of that corruption and grift and fraud, do you think he’s going to expose his own wrongdoing

There have been several Republicans linked to USAID funding, including at least one senator. Considering the amount of money exchanging hands, it is possible that they might have received money without being aware. What counts more is their actions. If they fight against the bureaucracy, instead of defending the income stream, then they’ll be allright.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

USAID was started by executive order, actually. If an agency was started by and EO, it ABSOLUTELY can be ended by and EO.

No, it can’t. Look up The Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998.

Everything Musk is doing is legal, and no, he’s not an “official”, but yes he is authorized and has clearance.

Are you calling your own government liars? Because they’re saying he is.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

No, it can’t. Look up The Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998.

*1997, but no, it didn’t create USAID, just mentioned it.

Are you calling your own government liars? Because they’re saying he is.

No, they’re not. “employee” (he’s actually a contractor) != “official”. “Official” is laid out in the appointment’s clause. Musk literally cannot be an “official” as per the constitution.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

*1997, but no, it didn’t create USAID, just mentioned it.

That’s a nice try with trying to seem credible by correcting me, but no, the Act was enacted in 1998, and I didn’t say it created USAID.

The Act is what effectively made USAID an independent government agency, and as such, can’t be dissolved by EO. That’s according to an actual lawyer and former Associate White House Council, by the way. But I’m sure your extensive legal experience will prove us all wrong.

No, they’re not.

Here’s Fox: “Elon Musk has been named as a “special government employee,” according to the White House.”

And here’s Congress stipulating what a public official is: “A public official is an elected or appointed official, or an employee of a Federal, state or local government in the United States.”

So yes, Musk is a government official, which makes his actions very constitutionally iffy.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

*1997

Official is determined by the appoints clause of the constitution. It has not been amended and cannot be overwritten by any mere law. (it’s not even clear what you’re citing, but lol, no) He’s not an official.

Everything else you wrote is irrelevant and incredibly stupid.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

*1997

No.

Also, even if it were actually from 1997, you haven’t adressed the main point: that the Act makes it so USAID can’t be dissolved by EO. It’s almost as if you’re full of shit.

Official is determined by the appoints clause of the constitution. It has not been amended and cannot be overwritten by any mere law. (it’s not even clear what you’re citing, but lol, no) He’s not an official.

First of all, no, officials aren’t determined by the Appointments Clause; that’s officers. An officer is a type of official, but an official isn’t automatically an officer.

Secondly, Fox is saying he’s a government employee and Congress says government employee = official. So you’re either completely wrong(again) or calling Fox and/or Congress liars. Pick one.

Everything else you wrote is irrelevant and incredibly stupid.

I’m disappointed, Matty. I had hoped for more fantasy headcanon on how a former Associate Counsel is wrong about the law, but alas. I have to settle for your “nuh uh”.

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Mathematics Student says:

Re:

USAID was started by executive order, actually. If an agency was started by and EO, it ABSOLUTELY can be ended by and EO

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. It’s so dumb that you’d be hard pressed to convince me that you actually believe it and aren’t either a troll (in the sense of pretending to believe these things to satirize MAGA people) or else you are making this argument as a sort of psychological weapon: you publicly argue something that is boldly and obviously false as a means of showing that you have so much raw power that it doesn’t matter whether your arguments are obviously false, because you have the might of powerful people behind them.

Of course, it doesn’t matter whether the agency was started by an Executive Order. In this case, the existence of the agency was later enshrined in law by a statute approved by congress and signed by the president. The president can’t unilaterally change the law, unless you wish to openly argue that the president should be an absolute dictator. I am not a lawyer, but this level of basic knowledge of how laws work, not only in the US but in almost all democratic countries in the world, is something that I would expect children to have grasped before they even start High School.

Your comment brought me out of lurking. I realize that engaging with bad-faith commenters is a bad idea. But the brazenness really does frighten me. I no longer live in the US, but so many family and friend remain there. I am quite frightened about where things are going and I really have no idea what I can do about from a distance.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

Well, THAT was a whole buncha words that said very little.

Of course, it doesn’t matter whether the agency was started by an Executive Order.

It absolutely does.

In this case, the existence of the agency was later enshrined in law by a statute approved by congress and signed by the president.

Later laws mention USAID, they don’t create it or authorize it.

I realize that engaging with bad-faith commenters

You are bad faith af. Get out of my face.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

It absolutely does.

It doesn’t when the only legal way to abolish USAID is with Congressional approval. The efforts of Trump and Musk to subvert the power of the legislature by trying to shut down USAID create a clear Constitutional crisis. The executive branch shouldn’t have the power to override Congress by just doing whatever and claiming the power of a king to justify their actions. But hey, keep defending that if you want⁠—it’s more proof that you’re begging for a jackboot to lick and a brownshirt to wear.

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Dark Helmet (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

You’re being very silly about this, but if you’re going to be silly, be silly all the way.

“Of course, it doesn’t matter whether the agency was started by an Executive Order.

It absolutely does.”

Actually, JFK’s EO didn’t create much of anything. Instead, it consolidated a bunch of aid organizations into one, as required by the Foreign Assistance Act of ’61. So your line shouldn’t be, “That which is created by EO can be elimintated by EO.”

It should be “That that can be consolidated by EO can be broken back apart by EO.” If you want to argue that there should be no parent agency in charge of dispensing economic aid, then first you have to go repeal the law, then splinter (not elminate) USAID. But that isn’t what they’re doing, nor that which you’re cheerleading.

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T0r0 (profile) says:

Re: incorrect it wasn't started by EO

The Foreign Assistance Act (Pub. L. 87–195, 75 Stat. 424-2, enacted September 4, 1961, 22 U.S.C. § 2151 et seq.) is a United States law governing foreign aid policy. It outlined the political and ideological principles of U.S. foreign aid, significantly overhauled and reorganized the structure of U.S. foreign assistance programs, legally distinguished military from nonmilitary aid, and created a new agency, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) to administer nonmilitary economic assistance programs.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“Constitutional Crisis” and “Coup” are vague political epithets

Wikipedia says “In political science, a constitutional crisis is a problem or conflict in the function of a government that the political constitution or other fundamental governing law is perceived to be unable to resolve.”

When has any country ever not had a constitutional crisis by that definition? There’s always conflict in government, like when the parties disagree about what the tax rate should be; the Constitution’s not gonna help resolve that.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

When has any country ever not had a constitutional crisis by that definition?

The U.S. hasn’t had a significant constitutional crisis in our lifetimes because, for all their bullshit, the two big political parties have largely abided by the checks and balances of the system and the guardrails set up to make those checks and balances work. Donald Trump and Elon Musk are jumping over those guardrails, kicking them down from the other side, and daring Congress to do something about it. This situation is a constitutional crisis because it’s exposing Donald Trump’s desire to forgo Congress by claiming its power for the executive branch. If Donald Trump can shut down USAID without Congressional approval, then he can do anything without Congressional approval and Congress⁠—the only form of representative government at the national level⁠—becomes meaningless.

Democrats and Republicans bitching at each other over military spending or whatever isn’t a constitutional crisis. An entire branch of the government effectively being rendered null and void because the current sitting president wants to be a king? That is a constitutional crisis.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Democrats and Republicans bitching at each other over military spending or whatever isn’t a constitutional crisis.

I agree, but it meets terms of Wikipedia’s definition. That’s an absurd result, making it a bad definition. But I’m not sure which definition other people are using.

“Bitching at each other” is definitely “conflict”, and the Constitition won’t resolve it because there’s supposed to be conflict. “Checks and balances” are also conflict. Without conflict, we’d have a dictatorship.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“Bitching at each other” is definitely “conflict”, and the Constitition won’t resolve it because there’s supposed to be conflict. “Checks and balances” are also conflict.

That’s not the kind of conflict being referred to here. The conflict in a constitutional crisis is about one part of the government trying to unilaterally render another part of the government useless, which would likely render the entire Constitution useless. If the executive branch can render the legislative branch null and void by executive fiat/potentially illegal actions while daring anyone to stop that from happening, the executive branch could pretty much do whatever the fuck it wants⁠—like, say, ignoring the Constitution altogether.

Checks and balances only works when the three branches agree to work under those checks and balances. If one of the branches ignores those checks and balances, the entire system could fall apart. That is the core of a constitutional crisis. And after only two weeks of the second Trump administration, we’re as close to such a thing as we’ve ever been in my lifetime.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

That’s not the kind of conflict being referred to here.

I think it’s not the kind of conflict the writer(s) meant to be referring to.

If the executive branch can render the legislative branch null and void by executive fiat/potentially illegal actions

The Constitution states, very clearly, that the President has the authority to pardon anyone for any federal crime. That, alone, can render much of the Constitution useless. It’s kind of weird how the authors, despite being paranoid about overly-powerful kings, left this major loophole.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

The U.S. hasn’t had a significant constitutional crisis in our lifetimes because,

This is superficially true. But the weakening of constitutional adherence has long been a problem. Take for example “Constitution free zones”, which are not a new thing, but SCOTUS decided the executive branch sizing powers the constitution denies it was ok because reasons.

Sure the argument tried it’s hardest to flirt with reasonability. But at the end of the day it was never able to say anything more than “the parts of the constitution we do not like don’t apply in the places we decided they are inconvenient”.

There have been other erosions as well. Notable SCOTUS most recent decision to abandon the First Amendment. So this problem has been a long time in the making. Voting into office someone who views any restriction on their perceived personal power as intolerable definite has not helped. And Since at this point euphemisms are really not appropriate: It has taken a sledge hammer to a structure already weakened, and must be stopped if we value the constitution, or even the basic freedoms it entails.

But yes. You are correct, we have not recently had anyone in power so openly swinging a sledge hammer at the foundations of our country.

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Ethin Probst (profile) says:

Update on the treasury situation: Elon’s treasury access is a lot worse than I think any of is ever imagined. We thought he just wanted access to the systems. But no. He wants access to it’s source code. So. Yeah. There are only two reasons I can think of for him to want that, because I can’t think of anything else: either he wants to apply the “move fast and break things” approach to the treasury or reroute all payments through his own system, or he wants to sell it to someone. Considering the language it’s written in is one you’d be hard-pressed to find an expert on nowadays, well…

Bloof (profile) says:

Re:

You can pretty much guarantee that by year three of this, the treasury department’s current systems will be deemed not fit for purpose and Elon will have put tens of billions into a blockchain of some description. It will end up being ‘hacked’ just before Trump leaves office, having issued a blanket pardon to Elon and his minions to cover the time of the hack.

Ethin Probst (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Most likely. Anybody but the government having the source code to that is just terrifying. The damage that could be done is… Idk even how to put it into words. (I’m also like 200 percent sure that asking for the source code of anything was way beyond the EO that Elon is using for his power grab, not that he cares.) This guy needs to be tried for treason already. Both treason and sedition.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Anybody but the government having the source code to that is just terrifying.

Why? It probably runs on Linux or Windows, as many other critical systems do, and unfriendly foreign governments have the source code to those.

What should be terrifying is that anyone would develop software in such a way that its security would depend on the secrecy of its code. In general, and also specifically because the Treasury Department is subject to FOIA.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Elon’s treasury access is a lot worse than I think any of is ever imagined. We thought he just wanted access to the systems. But no. He wants access to it’s source code.

Given that the systems were developed with public funds, we should all have access to the source code. There’s nothing sinister about that. It’s why we can emulate the Apollo Guidance Computer at home, for example.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Given that the systems were developed with public funds, we should all have access to the source code. There’s nothing sinister about that. It’s why we can emulate the Apollo Guidance Computer at home, for example.

The difference being, of course, that a treasury computer system is infinitely more important to maintain control of than a guidance computer for an obsolete rocket.

Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: source code not the threat

I admit that it is unlikely that I would want to run either what Treasury runs, or what Apollo ran, at home. But I see little threat in being able to view the code for either.

I understand that the compiler used to build many major server systems can be had. In fact, even the kernel and web servers for many of them can be viewed in source form. This is not as much of a threat as, say, having them unavailable.

When you have closed source, you can wind up with a windows-like nightmare, where zero day exploits abound and your most important choice is between a blue screen and a black one.

Now, I would not want Elmo’s Muskies to be able to actually change the code. I am not sure I would trust them with anything more dangerous than wet string. Fortunately the govt code is probably old enough to be written in Cobol, and the last compiler for that was most recently said to be in a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavoratory with a sign on the door saying ``Beware of the Leopard”.

If you find it, that compiler probably works about as well as “preview” without javascript on the new techdirt platform.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

and the last compiler for that was most recently said to be in a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavoratory with a sign on the door saying “Beware of the Leopard”

I bring strange, old, tidings:
https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2022-March/238408.html

Now you may still be mostly correct: The odds are high the what ever language The treasury software is in, it is likely an odd dialect… but if it’s running on an IBM mainframe, then IBM almost certainly maintains (or otherwise ensure the existence of) a compiler for them (though likely not free as in beer, or free as in speech.).

I believe similar situations exist for most older “esoteric” languages: Having modern compilers for them… but possibly not support for all dialects.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Yeah. What did he and other Republicans fucking expect? And they still want to gut USAID, which has saved countless lives over the years. They only want the ghoulish work done with the trappings of law. They’re probably fine with everything else horrid and bigoted that Trump is doing but is (sadly) Constitutionally protected, too.

Reaching across the aisle is just gonna result in Democrats & Progressives getting a knife in their hand once again. Let the people & politicians who helped this crisis come into place own up to how they nodded along and voted for it at the booth and in legislatures.

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Matthew N. "The GOAT" Bennett (profile) says:

Repeating my general sentiment I expressed in “A Coup Is In Progress in America”; Trump was preventable and the American government had decades to stop what is happening now. The American people do not care about your own “big feelings” on tradition and what is right and wrong because they hate you and want the system you have constructed to oppress them dismantled.

Thanks for playing. Maybe when this is all over you guys can come down here and we’ll have some vegemite together.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

The American people do not care about your own “big feelings” on tradition and what is right and wrong because they hate you and want the system you have constructed to oppress them dismantled.

Correction: Right-wingers don’t care. And when the system they believe “oppresses” them with all these rules and regulations that govern modern society falls apart at their behest, they won’t be able to escape the consequences of that. Take, for example, the right-wing desire to dismantle the Department of Education. Sure, conservatives think trashing that agency would make American education instantly better⁠—but when the consequences of dismanting the DoE hit them like a ton of bricks, they’re not going to be happy, and they’ll have no one to blame but themselves for those consequences.

American conservatives have long wanted to tear down secular institutions and replace them with religious ones. Every attempt to privilege Christianity (e.g., demanding the Ten Commandments be placed in every classroom) proves as much. Hell, their desire to put Trump back in the White House practically coincides with a desire to have a unitary executive ruler who makes the ultimate call on right and wrong, legal and illegal, who lives and who dies. (It even aligns with the way they consider God a father figure who must always have the final authority, right down to saying shit like “Daddy’s back” when Trump won the election.) But in their religious zeal to turn the country into Gilead, they’ll end up realizing (far too late) that the only people who will benefit from that movement in the long run are those who are already wealthy and powerful.

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Anonymous Coward says:

“Elections have consequences,” they say, wielding the phrase not as a statement about governance but as a celebration of retribution.

What’s especially fun about this line is that the consequences are for them too. “Haha liberal, I’ve filled our pool with shit.” You’re in the pool too, dumbass.

I realized in advance that they were filling the pool with shit though. I took the initiative to procure drysuits for myself and my loved ones. Like sure, you filled the pool with shit. But while you were climbing up on the diving board, we were getting tetanus shots.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Whoever says:

These people think they are smart

Brian Riedl, a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, with a career spanning service to multiple Republican leaders, is now warning about the constitutional crisis triggered by Trump and Musk’s actions.

I am sure these people think of themselves as smart, but actual events have shown how stupid they are. The fact that they could not predict this outcome, despite all the evidence from Trump-45 means that their analysis skills are below average. Instead of dealing in facts, they deal in bigotry.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Riedl likes to act like he’s a good person but he’s just as much of a deregulation and defunding fetishist as the rest of the GOP. He just wants the looting and destruction to happen within the bounds of legal kayfabe.

The Manhattan Institute hosts videos from PragerU, for crying out loud. Just go look at their website and what they have on there. Why should anybody from the Manhattan Institute be trusted to help build back toward a sane U.S.?

That One Guy (profile) says:

'Only they were supposed to suffer, not fair!'

‘Wait a minute, this is starting to look like it might hurt me! That wasn’t the deal, someone stop them!’

While I agree with the idea that the ongoing coup and undermining of the legal bedrock the country is build upon needs to be shut down no-one has a reasonable excuse to be or act surprised by anything going on, given convicted felon Trump wasn’t exactly coy about his utter contempt towards the law or constitution.

I’ll agree with the MAGAt who are starting to realize that maybe things are getting out of hand and need to be reigned in, but I’m not naive enough to sympathize with them as I’ve little doubt that for most if not all of them their change of heart is based entirely upon the fact that they’ve realized that their faces are on the menu too.

Concerned says:

“If this ongoing coup is to be stopped, it needs to be because there still remain some Republicans with actual conservative, Constitutionally-based principles, who realize that “destruction” alone can’t be the goal. What good is owning the libs if there’s no country left at all?”

This is absolutely adorable…

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re:

Yeah making the ‘that’s illegal/unconstitutional so you should oppose it’ argument is probably going to be a hard sell to republicans(both in office and out), a better angle is likely to be ‘This will screw you over so you should oppose it’ since you can always count on self-preservation to motivate that lot when all else fails, though even that’s going to be an uphill battle so long as they think someone they hate will be hurt more than them.

Anonymous Coward says:

“traditional conservative values of compassion and measured governance.”

Compassion and measured governence haven’t been conservative values in my lifetime, if not longer. Or is Mike using “traditional” in the sense of lederhosen and oompah bands? Things that went out of fashion long ago but still get hauled out every now and then to entertain the gullable while gouging them on beer and sausage prices?

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