Brazil Bans ExTwitter In Battle With Musk, Takes VPNs & Users Down With It
from the everything-about-this-story-is-terrible dept
In the battle between Elon Musk and Brazilian Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, the biggest losers are Brazilians. They are now at risk of being stripped of VPNs while facing massive fines if they somehow get around a countrywide ban on ExTwitter.
Yesterday, I wrote about the standoff between Elon Musk and Brazil, and how neither side comes out of it looking very good. Where it was left was that Brazilian Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes was (1) freezing Starlink assets and (2) threatening to ban ExTwitter entirely from the country.
As we noted, there was nothing particularly new about the second point. Brazil has done this in the past with WhatsApp and Telegram. The freezing of Starlink’s assets already appeared to be an overreach and suggested how far Moraes would be willing to go in this posturing battle.
Apparently, he was willing to go even further, to the point of potentially blocking VPNs entirely.
On Friday, it was announced that ExTwitter would indeed be banned across Brazil. But what may be most interesting (or, rather, scary) is the method. First, ISPs and app stores have been ordered to block access to the app within five days. That’s not all that new, even if it is generally problematic. Countries simply should not be banning apps on the open internet.
But then it gets worse. The original ruling said that app stores are also told they need to ban VPNs. Here’s a translation of the order.
(2.1) APPLE and GOOGLE in Brazil to insert technological obstacles capable of making it impossible for users of the IOS (APPLE) and ANDROID (GOOGLE) systems to use the “X” application and remove the “X” application from the APPLE STORE and GOOGLE PLAY STORE stores and, similarly, in relation to applications that enable the use of VPN (‘virtual private network’), such as, for example: Proton VPN, Express VPN, NordVPN, Surfshark, TOTALVPN, Atlas VPN, Bitdefender VPN;
(2.2) That manage backbone access services in Brazil, so that they insert technological obstacles capable of making it impossible for users of the “X” application to use it;
(2.3) Internet service providers, represented by their Presidents, such as ALGAR TELECOM, OI, SKY, LIVE TIM, VIVO, CLARO, NET VIRTUA, GVT, etc…, to insert technological obstacles capable of making the use of the “X” application unfeasible; and
(2.4) Those who manage personal mobile service and switched fixed telephone service, to insert technological obstacles capable of making the use of the “X” application unfeasible;
I initially thought that first section couldn’t possibly mean that app stores also had to ban VPNs. But that’s what it pretty clearly says and what multiple Brazilian reports claim.
The end result is taking away VPNs from millions of Brazilians, which is an awful lot of collateral damage just because Elon Musk is a jackass. VPNs have many legitimate uses other than accessing ExTwitter after a ban in Brazil.
A few hours after the decision, Moraes seemed to walk back that section of the ruling, though perhaps only temporarily. In a second short ruling, he “suspended the execution” of that item “until there is a statement from the parties in the proceedings” in order to “avoid any unnecessary and reversible inconvenience to third-party companies.”
In other words, after Moraes hears from “the parties in the proceedings,” the VPN ban could come back. It’s unclear if that’s just ExTwitter, or if Apple/Google are included, given they were the ones directed to block VPNs.
Then, the original order (in a part that has not been rescinded) also threatens to fine anyone who is able to get around the block nearly $9,000 dollars per day:
(3) THE APPLICATION OF A DAILY FINE of R$50,000.00 (fifty thousand reais) to individuals and legal entities that engage in conduct involving the use of technological subterfuges to continue communications carried out by “X”, such as the use of VPN (‘virtual private network’), without prejudice to other civil and criminal sanctions, as provided by law.
When Brazil tried banning Telegram recently, this element was in there too, with the fines being twice as high. Though apparently it was never used.
Either way, this got a lot of attention very quickly. The NY Times notes that civil society folks are spooked by the VPN demands:
“This is the first time they asked for VPN blocking. This is something unprecedented,” Paula Bernardi, a Brazil-based policy adviser at the Internet Society, which pushes for an open internet. She said the Brazilian government could potentially now ask VPN providers to reveal who used their services to access X. “That’s going to be a very heated debate,” she said.
I was already concerned about the efforts by Moraes here, even if Elon is being terrible in response. But it’s fucking crazy that he ordered Google and Apple to ban VPNs entirely and then also threatened huge fines to users of VPNs (even if there’s a low likelihood of it being enforced).
One other oddity in all this is that Apple apparently started banning VPNs from its iOS App Store last week, perhaps knowing this order was coming. But that only raises even more questions. Did Apple know the details of this “unprecedented” order a week early? Why would it agree to ban VPNs?
As I said on today’s Ctrl-Alt-Speech, neither side looks good here. Now that it’s turned into a kind of schoolyard fight between Moraes and Musk where each one seems to be going further and further to piss off the other, it’s getting worse and worse for the public. Indeed, I’ve seen some speculation that Moraes doesn’t even have the authority to issue such a widespread ban on VPNs, but no one seems to be stopping him either way.
This is no longer about policy or law. It’s just become about egos. And because of that, everyone loses*.
* With the possible exception of Bluesky, which has had a flood of users from Brazil in the past two days. I will remind people that I am on the board of Bluesky, but this is not how I want Bluesky to gain new users. Bluesky itself has many advantages, including that it would be much more difficult to “ban” the service like this given its decentralized nature. But seeing pissing matches between Musk and Brazil seems like an unfortunate way for it to get more attention.
Filed Under: alexandre de moraes, app stores, ban, brazil, countrywide block, elon musk, vpns
Companies: apple, google, twitter, x


Comments on “Brazil Bans ExTwitter In Battle With Musk, Takes VPNs & Users Down With It”
Albatross
Well, at least EXTwitter is worth more than Truth Social. So Musk has that to hang his hat on.
What if BlueSky gets caought in thise shit storm too?
Let’s imagine the scenario where Bolsonaro’s crowd migrates to BlueSky alongside everyone else, and then this crowd starts doing what every far-right group does – spread nonsense and hate. Let’s also imagine that BlueSky gets the same demand as Musk to comply with Brazil’s hostage law. And then, let’s also imagine that the Brazilian judiciary is unhappy with BlueSky’s moderation efforts, no matter how reasonable that might be, starts demanding user data and removal of specific content. What would the service do with all that?
My point is, that this authoritarian garbage is not a good news for any service operating in the country, and BlueSky suddenly became a lot more prominent…
Re:
I think it’d play differently with BlueSky. First off, they’re not going to agree to cooperate then suddenly decide not to on a whim, which is what Musk did with Twitter. Secondly, no one at BlueSky’s going to make posts taunting Moraes like Musk’s been doing. Instead BlueSky will have their lawyers work with Brazilian lawyers and quietly find a solution that works, even if no one gets everything they want from it. Even if they ultimately refuse to take down the content, I’ll bet they’d at least agree to block it in Brazil and that would probably keep Moraes happy when he’s not being antagonized by the company.
You know, basically BlueSky will be adults instead of adopting Musk’s Twitter Toddler Mode of negotiation and won’t piss the judge off.
Re: Re:
I agree. It’s one thing to deliberately antagonize a government authority. Musk is, I’m pretty sure, one of those idiots who thinks that international law doesn’t apply to him and his companies because he isn’t based in the countries that make those demands (I know someone else who genuinely thinks this way, that other countries can’t order a company to do anything without getting the US courts involved to enforce that order). That in turn causes government authorities to do things like this just to show Musk “Hey, we are actually a lot more powerful than you, and unlike you we actually can pretty much do whatever we want within the bounds of our laws”. It’s a totally different thing to lawyer up and work with the government to figure out an optimal solution.
Re: Re: Re:
Didn’t the article state that Musk had a lawyer and that the judge froze her bank accounts? Keep in mind that this isn’t the government doing this. It’s a single judge overstepping his authority. I don’t see this working out for the judge in the long term unless he can maintain his stranglehold on free speech down there.
Re: Re: Re:2
I think so, but I think Musk was also antagonizing this judge long before that, so he was kinda asking for it.
As for the fact that it’s one guy doing this? Yeah, that does concern me, and I’m not trying to invalidate those concerns. The fact that one judge/justice can do this in Brazil is very concerning and raises all kinds of questions about their laws and why they would ever allow a judicial authority to have so much power in the first place. But on the other hand, this judge is acting on behalf of the government, I think? So technically when they do something, it’s the government indicating that it will agree with the judges actions. Still, it would be nice if something like this followed something like the two-man rule…
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Re: Re: Re:3
You sound like a rape-apologist.
Re: Re: Re:4
Your bias is showing, you got a bit brown elon on your nose.
Re: Re: Re:
Musk is an apartheid asshole participating in the modern global equivalent of the business plot.
Re: Re: Re:
Reminds me a lot of Masnick and how he gets his panties in a bunch over Europe holding tech companies accountable through the DMA and DSA.
Re: Re: Re:2
It does?
I guess if you are stupid enough to think having opinions and criticizing laws and how they are applied is the same as antagonizing governments and ignoring laws.
But you do you, just like Musk, but the difference is that Musk at least have money at this point to keep paying for his stupidity.
Re: Re:
I agree that it’s reasonable to expect BlueSky to behave better than Musk – that’s kind of a low bar to clear, the problem is, for an issue to escalate it requires only one side to be unreasonable. It’s the system that just ordered app stores and mobile OSs to remove Xitter’s app and VPN apps(!); backbone, mobile and local ISP to block Xitter; and threatened users with enormous fines for block circumvention(!!) that decides the threshold for such actions and how the checks and balances on this work (or seemingly don’t work at all). I’m worried that this threshold might not be set in stone and instead be dependent on events outside of BlueSky’s control and on egos (and how they might evolve) of a small number of people.
Re: Re:
Historically, just region blocking hasn’t been enough. India, for example, has been using their laws similar to Brazil to force content to be removed not just for Indian audience, but also for outside their borders. If a judge finds that region blocking is not enough, they can trigger this same effect. At the very least, Brazil needs to modify their law limiting such rulings on ISPs/VPNs to avoid this in the future.
Re:
Nothing. It’s designed that way.
Even if it wanted to, the whole point of being decentralized is that it can’t moderate. It can moderate/ban on the main Bluesky instance(s), but that’s it, it can’t stop people from using the protocol.
That’s always been the upside/downside of being a protocol, depending on how you look at it.
Re: Sobre nosso Ministro Moraes aqui no Brasil
Sou uma senhora de 60 anos, da periferia do estado de São Paulo, primeiro esse ministro esta tentando levar pelas nossas leis todas as investidas desrespeitosa do Sr Elon Musk no nosso pais, ele ataca nossa soberania, nossa constituição não é igual a de vcs, aqui liberdade de expressão é aceita até o momento que vc desrespeita o outro, ai ja não consideramos liberdade de expressão, porque nós entendemos que essa liberdade não pode ser usada pra caluniar, contar mentiras, fake news, ofender, xingar, assim foi feita nossa constituição por nós, nós escolhemos até onde é certo ter liberdade de expressão, e ter falta de respeito, e o Sr Elon Musk ja passou de todos os limites, e esse Juiz pra milhões de brasileiros nos salvou da extrema direita, que colocou o povo pobre a ir morar nas ruas e ficar na fila do osso nos comercios pra matarem a fome, ele pode extrapolar sim, mas colocar o sr ministro no mesmo patamar de Elon Musk é pra nós uma certa ofensa, vcs não conhecem o nosso povo, o pobre, e Lula nós conhecemos a muitos anos, então se o governo estiver interferindo nisso, nós vamos apoiar, perdemos 700 mil vidas por causa do ex presidente e o Sr Elon Musk esta alimentando os eleitores extremistas contra o proprio povo, vcs terem opiniões por causa do pais de vcs, ótimo, mas esse julgamento não é certo, nós o povo da periferia sabemos o que passamos nesses 4 anos de miseria com a extrema direita, ai vem um homem que a gente não tem nada com ele, desrespeitar nosso pais, se negar a cumprir nossas leis, porque ele disse aqui que pode dar golpe em qualquer pais, e achou realmente que aqui era uma republica de bananas, achou que todos os brasileiros tem complexo de vira-lata, mas não temos, venham conhecer o Brasil, seu povo, sua gente, suas leis, não podem opinar usando a constituição de vcs como parametros, precisam vir aqui nos conhecer e conhecer nossas leis, ninguem tem o direito só porque é multi milionario de vir ofender nossa soberania, desrespeitar nossas leis, espero que vcs me perdoem, sou uma senhora aposentada, moro numa casa popular, ganho o salario minimo do Brasil, não é justo ouvir o que esse sr milinario vir falar o que esta falando, fico muito triste com isso
Did hear they walked back the VPN ban at least.
While that’s good, it’s still absurd and stupid that they decided even THINKING of doing that was a sound decision.
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Yeah but i fear this is going to backfire hard on Brazil. Many will think that VPNs was the true intention of all this.
Re: Re:
Probably. Should help make the idea unpopular, though.
Re: Re: Re:
True but another fear is this will legitimize Musks views in the eyes of many.
Re: Re: Re:2
What, in Brazil?
Many people in Brazil believe Elon’s aiding criminals. At least, if the Brazilians on Bluesky are accurately relaying what they know.
Can’t be too sure if this is what they want, though.
Re:
They would have considered it a great idea if it actually went through.
Because if it was only about Musk’s fascist bullshit they’d have gone about this differently.
Re:
That’s in the article and was when the article went up. They only temporarily walked back the requirement that Apple/Google block VPNs. The fines for using a VPN are still in there.
Re: Re:
FWIW I’ve seen comments elsewhere saying the fines are only intended to apply to people posting similar content to what Moraes wants taken down. Said content is against Brazilian law, so the fines only applying to people using a VPN to violate Brazil’s laws makes some sense.
Re: Re: Re:
It is, however, very worrying and there’s concerns that overreach has already happened.
The fines being left in and the controversy surrounding the current President (Bolsonaro notwithstanding) isn’t a good sign.
Re: Re: Re:
That’s not my read, but my read is based on a Google translation of the order, so it could be wrong.
But, also that argument makes little sense given that the order that was sent to ExTwitter (which Musk revealed today) does not indicate what tweets violated the law. It only ordered accounts be removed with no basis for why (including the account of a sitting Brazilian Senator).
Re: Re: Re:2 Companies shouldn't be allowed to go against court rulings, not ever.
It is a court order, it is not Moraes’ order. Companies (legal person) should aways comply to court orders, no matter what, doesn’t matter if the court order is absurd, companies should comply and protest within the system (there are protesting channels). I started a couple small companies and all were REQUIRED to comply to all the laws, even to the laws I didn’t want to. xTwitter shouldn’t be allowed to break court orders just because Elon is rich.
Elon is NOT forced to come to Brazil and testify, he has the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to flee (yep, that’s correct for Brazil), but he CANNOT keep businesses here and keep making money, while avoiding court orders.
Not a fan of Musk at all but if you give Gov like this an inch they will take a mile.
Re:
“if you give Gov like this an inch”
Hahahahahaha – the mouse that roared
The Rest of Brazil?
Where is the rest of the Brazilian government in all of this? I would have thought they had a “system of checks and balances” over there. What is the opinion of the other Supreme Court justices? The president of Brazil? The legislature?
I’m not Brazilian, nor do I speak Portuguese. I also haven’t been following this drama that closely so maybe they have been speaking this whole time and I just haven’t seen it. But it seems kind of crazy that a lone judge can issue such a wide ranging order without any oversight.
This is Similar to Bad Cases Leading to Bad Case Law
Just like how a bad case can lead to courts creating bad case law to punish a bad actor, this is the same. Musk has been out-right antagonistic towards Moraes, so is it any surprise Moraes is pushing back hard the only way he can: By punishing Musk’s companies. Hopefully he’ll be made to see that banning VPNs is a step too far, but personally I see this whole mess as almost entirely Musk’s fault. He’s not only been a total jackass towards Moraes on Twitter, taunting him (that tweet with a photo of Moraes behind bars for example) but also the fact that Twitter quietly agreed to cooperate, then failed to do so, almost certainly due to Musk intervening, is what has Moraes so angry he’s doing this.
Musk’s basically single-handedly damaging free speech in Brazil by being an asshole, further proving just how much he really cares about it.
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Re:
You probably blame rape victims, too.
Re: Re:
What was Musk wearing?
/s
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Curious when all the people who were in the comments defending the EU against Musk are going to come in and explain to us that this is good, actually
Re:
Go make shit up elsewhere..
Ban VPNs? Not on this Internet!
Every single company that a) has an IT department, and b) has remote workers in Brazil will have screamed their bloody heads off about this. Almost every one of them will have had workers dialing in by way of a VPN.
When companies from IBM to Tesco to small 10-man IT firms rings in to say, “ain’t happenin'”, you might well want to listen.
Re:
“Dialing in”? Do you mean because Wi-fi calling uses an IPsec VPN? I’ve never really heard of a corporate VPN routing dialed calls, though; and the days when a VPN itself ran over a dial-up connection are, in most of the world, long gone.
Re: Re:
It’s a turn of phrase based on the old phone based communication systems. It simply means connecting to a remote network like you’re local to it. Much like hanging up isn’t a thing anymore, but everyone knows what it means.
'That's a price I'm willing to (have the brazilian public) pay' -Brazil government
They wouldn’t have included a VPN ban in the order if they didn’t consider that an acceptable bit of collateral damage, so the fact they apparently temporarily walked that back is still insanely worrisome, as they just signaled that VPN’s are absolutely in the cross-hairs and the government is just waiting for an excuse to pull the trigger.
Re:
There is no “They” This is one man in Brazil doing this
Re: Re:
One man, with the tacit approval of the government and his peers.
You’d think SOMEONE would at least say “brother, you are going too far” but apparently, no one in power is telling him that.
Happy to be proven wrong, though.
Re: Re: Re:
The communist Lula supports de Moraes’s censorship efforts because they’re currently being directed at his political opponents.
Re: Re: Existem Eles sim Sr Covarde anonimo
Não é um homem só um ministro só é nossa corte e ja passou pelo colegiado sr Covarde anonimo, agora vai passar pelo plenario e tenho a certeza que o plenario ira acompanhar o nosso ministro Moraes
Re:
I would like to apologize to Brazil for my fellow Americans like That One Guy and more who think that the American way of doing things is the only correct way of doing things.
So, how does one remove and replace a Supreme Court Justice in Brazil?
Re:
Can the people of Brazil simply ignore their supreme court like they do in the US?
Not *technically* an overreach
It’s only an overreach if the courts shut it down afterwards. The courts seem to have fully approved the action. Therefore it’s just a reach.
Re:
“It’s only an overreach if it comes from a judge in Overreach Town, Brazil. Otherwise it’s just sparkling tyrrany.”
Re:
Oh idk …. it could be viewed as an under reach due to their pulling shit outta their ass.
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You’re simply incapable of writing fairly about Musk. This is a censorship crisis of tremendous magnitude perpetrated by a power-mad authoritarian, and yet you can’t resist manifesting weak-minded insults using vulgar language.
Re:
I suppose it isn’t as clear in this post but Mike has called out Alexandre de Moraes for over-reaching before.
Re:
How do you write fairly about a man that consistently behaves like a childish edgelord at every opportunity without pointing that behavior out?
Shall we compare Mike’s language to Musk’s language? The result isn’t what you think it is. Just let me borrow two of Musk’s phrases to explain this in a manner you might understand:
Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it.
Go fuck yourself
QED
Re: Re:
I dunno. Let’s ask the New York Times about how they write about Donald Trump and see if that holds any clues.
Re: Re:
Why the fuck would you do that? Does Musk write for this site?
Re: Re: Re:
whoosh
Re:
Apparently, you missed the entire context.
Elon’s helping his coup buddy Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro tried to overthrow (read: violently murder) a democratically-elected government by not handing the IPs of the coup leaders.
If this context only makes you want to support Elon more, then all I have to say is why aren’t you in Ukraine murdering free Ukranians for your overlord Putin?
Re:
“This is a censorship crisis of tremendous magnitude perpetrated by a power-mad authoritarian”
LMAO – Where is Dr Evil’s volcanic lair located?
We need to wake up Austin Powers immediately!
This judge really needs to be impeached. Maybe, Elon is a jerk, but that is no excuse for what he is doing.
Countries simply should not be banning apps on the open internet.
Why not?
Re:
Come back and answer that question yourself when your favorite app gets banned.
Re: Re:
Why couldn’t it be one people hate and despise and are certain it is infecting computers?
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It just boils down to censorship imo. Any platform that allows someone to say something the government doesn’t like, it’ll just get banned if they don’t remove it. They’ll call it misinformation, but just like in the US, they’ll abuse it to start taking down political speech they don’t agree with it by labeling it misinformation. They Hunter Biden laptop story was a prime example
Re: Re:
” start taking down political speech they don’t agree with it by labeling it misinformation. They Hunter Biden laptop story was a prime example”
What about the laptop was misinformation .. what maga was saying?
A better example of misinformation would be the many things donald said about treating disease caused by the covid virus. Said misinformation could and did lead to people being injured.
Re: Re: Re:
Don’t be too hard on the dude, he just wanted his Hunter Biden dick pics.
I’m beginning to think that Elon is not the Free Speech Absolutist that he oft claims to be.
If a sovereign country decides that it is not interested in the Elon free speech x-twit, then they can attempt to block it. Their choice, not Elon’s. The consequences of which are not small and potentially could cause a lot of problems.
Rather than block x-twit disinfo, perhaps counter each instance of incorrect information with some reality.
Mike, I want to point out: this order does not itself block access to X, it order OTHER people to ensure that access is blocked, and that anyone who manages to get access anyhow be fined.
I think it would be just as easy to write a batshit order blocking bluesky. And if most people are using Google’d Android (not just AOSP derived projects, like LineageOS) and Google and Apple cave, then such an order would be about as effective against bluesky as X.
It’s also worth noting that pre-musk, nitter instance were fairly prolific. And while actually logging into one wasn’t advisable, you could totally use them to read. Those would have likely dodge this bans direct technical requirements, but I would imagine that Moraes would have decided to make an example of the first few people found using them.
Currently there are still other ways to read X contents (I recently ran across something called “threadreader”. I do NOT actually recommend it, since I’m pretty sure it’s JS riddled, and have no clue how trust worthy that is). If any one of those gets popular enough in Brazil during this specific bought of madness, I would imaging people using it would start being fined.
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here’s the problem blue sky would have a different result then musks shitter since there more Competent
To the extent that it’s coercive, it’s not really any different than jailing or fining people.
It’s extreme to ban apps, but I don’t really think a sovereign government should just let an app shrug and ignore it, either. It’s going to force compliance one way or the other.
Seems like it’s still about policy or law?
Metaphor
Let’s say you had an app that you could use to take a picture of a collection of random objects, and the app would tell you the different ways you could use to make a bomb with those objects.
That’s just speech right? But obviously it’s speech that should be controlled and probably banned.
Therefore there is no such thing as a free speech absolutist, and no government in the world gives the absolute right to free speech. All everyone quibbles about is the extent to which speech should be regulated and what types of speech should be regulated.
No one but the dangerously crazy truly believe that the would would be improved by putting a codex of bomb making in the hands of radicalized depressed teenagers.
Re:
Unless you’re Elon Musk. Free speech absolutism then means “Only me, white supremacists and free expression haters get to speak. With violence if ‘necessary’. And violence is always necessary.”
Outside of the obvious safety concerns…
Only insurrectionists and the criminally “insane” think that giving bombs to them would “improve” the world.
Sadly, we all know how that will end and fortunately, the modern world thinks war is something to be avoided.
Re: Re:
Except if you’re Benjamin Netanyahu, Vladimir Putin, or have any sort of power in the US government.
Re: Re: Re:
Netanyahu, sadly, has the weight of history behind him. And by that I mean since Israel’s founding, and at least 20 or so years before that too. Zionists (and not Jewish people) are all no different from the Ruspublican Party.
Putin is Putin, and everyone knows he doesn’t care about the world, or even his own armed forces.
As for the US Government, well, Biden’s administration sure seems rather keen on supporting the Zionists (and not the Jews), but keep on campaigning. At least they’ll pretend to listen. But always watch what they do, and never what they say. And while it’s mildly reassuring that they’ve moderated their stance on Israel, it’s not to the point where they’ll ship only essential wares like food and civilian aid. (There’s still a LOT of work to be done.)
Re: Re: Re:2
“Netanyahu, sadly, has the weight of history behind him”
Like many dictators, he needs to continue the war in order to remain in power.
Re:
Not a great example. Some countries absolutely should not be banning that, any more than The Anarchist Cookbook or similar, if they follow their foundational laws.
Other countries, whatever, but i would argue against it.
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That fine would be on a computer. Just break into their computers and erase that fine, then that would be the end of it.
Also, their VPN ban only affects public VPN services. They can ban the services, but not the protocol.
You can always set up your own private VPN offshore, and that cannot the stopped
That is why when I talk about project 2025’s porn ban, which will affect more than just porn, and settting up a VPN in home abroad, either Mexico or the Bahamas, I talk about a method that cannot be stopped.
They can ban all the public VPN services, but cannot ban the protocol, because businesses that need it would not stand for it.
There is no way a VPN on a computer in a home in Mexico or the Bahamas can ever be stopped by US authorities. The DoJ has not jurisdiction over a home computer in Mexico or the Bahamas, even if the homeowner is a US citizen.
And that censorship is coming because Trump does have a 49 to 47 lead right now according to one betting site in Britain where betting on elections is legal. You need to prepare now for it.
They can outlaw proxies and VPNs as a public service, but they cannot be the protocol itself. Businesses that need that will never stand for it. That is the achilles heel of any censorship regime.
Jack Ma got into trouble becuase he did not take the step of placing a computer in a home abroad with VPN software on it. Had he done that, China would have never caught him.
You can’t prosecute what you can’t read.
Re:
I smell burnt toast.
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Re: Re:
A home computer in Mexico or the Bahamas is not subject to any DoJ jurisdiction even if the homeowber is American
Re: Re: Re:
I definitely smell burnt toast.
Re: Re: Re:2
Why are you making fun of someone who at least recognizes the grave threat we face from censorship and who endeavours to offer solutions to mitigate liability when accessing banned material?
Re: Re: Re:3
“Trump does have a 49 to 47 lead right now according to one betting site in Britain”
Because yer being silly?
Re: Re: Re:3
Because it’s disinformation.
While a VPN can let you access “banned” material, it does nothing to address the censorship. Or the fines that one will ioncur if the user uses a VPN to access the banned material in Brazil.
This little disinfo peddler also has zero knowledge of how governments operate, especially when they are NOT allowed to do whatever they want. And apparently is selectively illiterate.
While technically true, the usage of illegal VPNs in Chinais only tolerated because of the stock exchanges. All outgoing data IS monitored, VPN or otherwise, and most of the population already use the local alternatives to popular sites and apps outside of China.
Jack Ma’s criticisms of Chinese banking and moneylending were reported on by pretty much everyone, including the state propaganda mills. And the Chinese “police” regularly monitor their expatriates in person.
Re: Re: Re:4
dIsInFOrmAtIoN
Re: Re: Re:5
A VPN doesn’t protect you if you do crime.
And is relatively trivial to backtrack to, since all a VPN does is put your digital position to somewhere else. A little detective work will let you work out the perp’s location with the right information.
In the same vein, a VPN isn’t going to protect you from a censorious regime. They have the resources, political will and sheer malice to wreck your day. Even Mullvad can do so much if Russia sends its agents adter you, or Israels dispatches a Mossad hit squad, for one.
The ONLY defense against a censorious regime is to ensure its laws do not criminalize freedom of speech/expression. Something few people want to get.
Re: Re: Re:6
“all a VPN does is put your digital position to somewhere else.”
Really now? What is a digital position?
“A little detective work will let you work out the perp’s location with the right information”
Well, no it will not. One may be able to trace the connections back to the origin, which is not a trivial task, but one will not have enough evidence to prove which human was at the controls. Arrest the machine!
Re: Re: Re:7
That would be the IP Address (IPv4 or IPv6).
That may be true, but if you haven’t been following the Techdirt coverage on data privacy, you can use the IP Address(es) together with other data to make a reasonable guess.
Point is, I’m trying to say that a VPN isn’t gonna protect your ass. Most VPNs keep your original location, and warrants are oh so easy to get…
Besides, how are you going to stop a government hell-bent on censoring you? A gun? because governments have a ton of guns.
Re: Re: Re:8
I’ll just add that there have come to light several methods to trigger VPNs or applications (like web browsers) to give up a computers real ip#, so anyone who thinks they are anonymous because they are using a VPN are entirely deluded and fooled by promises never actually made by the VPN-provider. And that’s on top of the other points you mentioned.
Re: Re: Re:8
IP addr is no way to locate someone.
Re: Re: Re:9
Again…
If you use the IP address with other data, you can get a decent enough match.
I know an IP address is considered not enough evidence for a warrant, much less proof.
Re: Re: Re:10
With other data …
Like what?
I recall reading more than one story about how this ‘other data’ has resulted in the physical injury to body and property. Specifically the ‘locating’ of an Airpod at a certain address coupled with trigger happy law enforcement leads to another isolated incident.
Re: Re: Re:11
…and that is why the best and probably only way to prevent these incidents is to have LAWS against such abuse.
Re: Re: Re:8
If the VPN service keeps no logs and you cannot be traced
If it is your own private vpn in a home you own abroad the doj has zero jurisdiction over that
This is why the rich will be able to evade the coming project 2025 censorship
It is encrypted they cannot get anything on you
In the USA you cannot be compelled to give them.access. We still have the 5th amendment.
Ave then there are secure disk wiping programs and I expect to see to see them selling like hotcakes once the project 2025 censorship comes in.
No evidence means no CASE
Re: Re: Re:4
That fine wouid be on a computer. Just break in and erase it then you will not have to pay it
Or better, lower the debt amount to a lower number, pay that then that will be the end of it
Because the books wouid still balance no audit of the books will.eber find what you did
I did that in high school so my parents wouud not have to pay a $2000 bill inrak up when I effedld up a machine in shop class. I broke in and kicked a digit off so the bill would be about $200 instead then I just paid that altered amount with some money I had and that was the end of it. My parents never got the bill
The way I did that no audit of the books wouid ever find it.
Back then I could blue box it where it wouid have taken a hour or more to trace me.
Re: Re: Re:5
Can we FUCKING NOT suggest felonies as advice?
Re: Re: Re:3
I am giving info on how to keep the authorities from finding you
And if you have the money and can buy a second home abroad and park a computer there as an encrypted relay, that is the way to go.
They can’t prosecute what they can’t read.
It’s that simple
Re: Re: Re:4
You’re like that dude who wrote a book on how to get rich quick in an effort to pay off his alimony and failed.
Re: Re: Re:4
The authorities WILL find you regardless of what you do. They simply have more resources, more manpower, and more importantly, they have guns.
The best way to prevent the government from abusing that sort of advantage is to have LAWS that prevent them from using that advantage unless there’s beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was necessary.
This is completely fucking ridiculous, because the average person simply does not have enough money to do that> All you’re doing is proving Karl fucking Marx right about capitalism.
I can assure you that this too is sheer bullshit. Five Eyes, Chinese “police”, Russian spies and whoever you can think of can and WILL read. And if they can’t they’ll either find a way, or make shit up.
Your advice will help no one.
Re: Re: Re:5
Any cop who.poinyed his gun at anyone in my family would hisgun taken away from by force
I wouud rip his gun out his hand and disarm him
Re: Re: Re:5
Mexico wouid be the best place tpitbtfat computer
Mexico is not a five eyes country so they would never figure out what you were doing
A home computer in Mexico is not subject to doj jurisdiction even if the homeowner is American
Re: Re: Re:5
I’ve found his advice to be quite useful.
Re: Re: Re:6
Always fun when people think advice on how to commit felonies is something good, especially taking that advice from someone who also thinks assaulting police officers is valid tactic.
Better get measured for that coffin your family will need.
Re: Re: Re:6
…As ling as you understand the limitations of a VPN and how a lack of data can still positively ID you, that is.
Again, the best way to prevent Project 2025 is to campaign HARD for Kamala/Walz. Anything else outside of restarting the American Civil War is… not ideal at best.
Or that the luttle shit is also implicitly shilling for self-censorship. Because the only way “they can’t read what they can’t see” is to never fucking say or write it.
And even then all a government has to do is to fabricate a crime.
Also I am not fucking interested in pirate IPTV bullshit
Re: Re: Re:
Because there are no laws in Mexico or Bahamas?
Re: Re: Re:2
The naive little disinfo peddler is working under the very naive assumption that the police of respective countries have zero jurisdiction outside of their countries.
Despite enough evidence proving otherwise, from Chinese policemen being tasked to monitor Chinese expatriates, to the US cutting deals and abusing extradition treaties to arrest people and everything in between.
Or the fact that universal jurisdiction (reserved only for war crimes) and extraterritorial jurisdiction exists.
Re: Re: Re:3
Legally speaking, that is indeed the case. Unfortunately, corrupt regimes have absolutely no problem with operating illegally.
Re: Re: Re:4
Again, extraterritorial jurisdiction exists and is perfectly legal.
ANd that usually gets abused.
Re: Re: Re:5
” extraterritorial jurisdiction exists and is perfectly legal”
I do not think those Chinese ‘police stations’ are entirely approved by the sovereign nations in which they are found.
Re: Re: Re:6
China also does not want to play by the American-dominated “rule of law”.
Instead wanting to replace American dominance with CCP dominance.
Shame there’s few countries speaking out against what is effectively a form of espionage…
Fun fact: Cloudflare and other CDNs run VPN-like systems that can’t be disabled…..
As does Google. So they’re going to have to block ALL cloudflare sites, Google, Microsoft etc as well.
MS etc are NOT going to turn their enterprise security systems off just to please one country.
How DARE Brazil try and run its country the way it wants.
Mike is such an imperialist, busy body, a geo-political Mrs. Kravitz.
Yo, Mike, mind your own damn business.
Ok. A Judge in Brazil has unilaterally decided to ban all VPN’s, or at least try to, in the employ of a corrupt and overly authoritarian government that wants to suppress criticism, but both sides are bad because reasons. Great reporting.
Re:
I see you haven’t kept track of what Musk has actually said which is entirely a you problem.
Can anyone else remember a time when Elon Musk reacted really strongly to a country telling him to remove content or have the app banned?
I seem to recall there was a country starting with the letter T, but Elon’s reaction was the opposite of his reaction this time.
Perhaps comparing those two instances would be a suitable topic for an article.
relevance?
It’s bad commercial spam, just flag it.