Decentralized Systems Will Be Necessary To Stop Google From Putting The Web Into Managed Decline

from the it's-up-to-us dept

Is Google signaling the end of the open web? That’s some of the concern raised by its new embrace of AI. While most of the fears about AI may be overblown, this one could be legit. But it doesn’t mean that we need to accept it.

These days, there is certainly a lot of hype and nonsense about artificial intelligence and the ways that it can impact all kinds of industries and businesses. Last week at Google IO, Google made it clear that they’re moving forward with what it calls “AI overviews,” in which Google’s own Gemini AI tech will try to generate answers at the top of search pages.

All week I’ve been hearing people fretting about this, sharing some statement similar to Kevin Roose at the NY Times asking if the open web can survive such a thing.

In the early days, Google’s entire mission was to get you off their site as quickly as possible. In a 2004 interview with Playboy magazine that was later immortalized in a regulatory filing with the SEC (due to concerns of them violating quiet period restrictions), Larry Page famously made clear that their goal was to quickly help you find what you want and send you on your way:

PLAYBOY: With the addition of e-mail, Froogle—your new shopping site—and Google news, plus your search engine, will Google become a portal similar to Yahoo, AOL or MSN? Many Internet companies were founded as portals. It was assumed that the more services you provided, the longer people would stay on your website and the more revenue you could generate from advertising and pay services.

PAGE: We built a business on the opposite message. We want you to come to Google and quickly find what you want. Then we’re happy to send you to the other sites. In fact, that’s the point. The portal strategy tries to own all of the information.

PLAYBOY: Portals attempt to create what they call sticky content to keep a user as long as possible.

PAGE: That’s the problem. Most portals show their own content above content elsewhere on the web. We feel that’s a conflict of interest, analogous to taking money for search results. Their search engine doesn’t necessarily provide the best results; it provides the portal’s results. Google conscientiously tries to stay away from that. We want to get you out of Google and to the right place as fast as possible. It’s a very different model.

PLAYBOY: Until you launched news, Gmail, Froogle and similar services.

PAGE: These are just other technologies to help you use the web. They’re an alternative, hopefully a good one. But we continue to point users to the best websites and try to do whatever is in their best interest. With news, we’re not buying information and then pointing users to information we own. We collect many news sources, list them and point the user to other websites. Gmail is just a good mail program with lots of storage.

Ah, how times have changed. And, of course, there is an argument that if you’re just looking for an answer to a question, giving you that answer directly can and should be more efficient, rather than pointing you to a list of places that might (or might not) have that answer.

But, not everything that people are searching for is just “an answer.” And not everything that is an answer takes into account the details, nuances, and complexities of whatever topic someone might be searching on.

There’s nothing inherent to the internet that makes the “search to get linked somewhere else” model have to make sense. Historically, that’s how things have been done. But if you could have an automated system simply give you directly what you needed at the right time, that would probably be a better solution for some subset of issues. And, if Google doesn’t do it, someone else will, and that would undermine Google’s market.

But still, it sucks.

Google’s search has increasingly become terrible. And it appears that much of that enshittification is due to (what else?) an effort to squeeze more money out of everyone, rather than providing a better service.

In Casey Newton’s writeup of the new “AI Overviews” feature, he notes that it may be a sign that “the web as we know it is entering a kind of managed decline.”

Still, as the first day of I/O wound down, it was hard to escape the feeling that the web as we know it is entering a kind of managed decline. Over the past two and a half decades, Google extended itself into so many different parts of the web that it became synonymous with it. And now that LLMs promise to let users understand all that the web contains in real time, Google at last has what it needs to finish the job: replacing the web, in so many of the ways that matter, with itself. 

I had actually read this article the day it came out, but I didn’t think too much of that paragraph until a couple days later at a dinner full of folks working on decentralization. Someone brought up that quote, though paraphrased it slightly differently, claiming Casey was saying that Google was actively putting the web into managed decline.

Whether or not that’s very different (and maybe it’s not), both should spark people to realize that this is a problem.

And it’s one of the reasons I am still hoping that people will spend more time thinking about solutions that involve decentralization. Not necessarily because of “search” (which tends to be more of a centralized tool by necessity), but because the world of decentralized social media could offer an alternative to the world in which all the information we consume is intermediated by a single centralized player, whether it’s a search engine like Google, or a social media service like Meta.

For the last few years, there have been stories trying to remind people that Facebook is not the internet. But that’s because, for some people, it kinda has been. And the same is true of Google. For some people, their online worlds exist either in social media or in search as the mediating forces in their lives. And, obviously, there are all sorts of reasons why that happens, but it should be seen as a much less fulfilling kind of internet.

The situation discussed here, where Google is trying to give people full answers via AI, rather than sending them elsewhere on the web, may well be “putting the web into managed decline,” but there’s no reason we have to accept that future.

The various decentralized social media systems that have been growing over the past few years offer a very different potential approach: one in which you get to build the experience you want, rather than the one a giant company wants. If you need information, others on the decentralized social network can help you find it or respond to your questions.

It’s a much more social experience, mediated by other people, perhaps on different systems, rather than a single giant company determining what you get to see.

The promise of the internet, and the World Wide Web in particular, was that anyone could build their own world there, connected with others. It was a world that wasn’t supposed to be in any kind of walled garden. But, many people have ended up in just a few of those walled gardens.

It’s no secret why: they do what they do pretty damn well, and certainly better than what was around before. People became reliant on Google search because it was much better. They became reliant on Facebook because it was an easy way to keep up with your family and friends. But in giving those companies so much control, we’ve lost some of that promise of the open web.

And now we can take it back. Whether it’s using ActivityPub/Mastodon, or Bluesky/ATProtocol (or others like nostr or Farcaster), we’re starting to see users building out an alternative vision that isn’t just mediated by single companies with Wall Street demands pushing them to enshittify.

No one’s saying to give up using Google, because it’s necessary for many. But start to think about where you spend your time online, and who is looking to lock you in vs. who is giving you more freedom to have the world that works best for you.

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Comments on “Decentralized Systems Will Be Necessary To Stop Google From Putting The Web Into Managed Decline”

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31 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

The threat of full answers in search results is that it disincentivizes people to visit informative web pages so those web pages wither and dry up. Those web pages and searches for them are not easily replaced by social media because social media serves a different purpose than web pages. For example, how could Wikihow shift its business to social media? It relies on subscription revenue but wouldn’t get that from users on Bluesky or Mastodon.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

The threat of full answers in search results is that it disincentivizes people to visit informative web pages so those web pages wither and dry up.

Does it? Depending on what a “full answer” constitutes, Google has been giving them in some form for many years at this point, and there are no reports that I know of suggesting that information websites are losing so much traffic that they struggle to keep existing.

It also depends on the context of the search. If I’m searching for a quick answer while in conversation, sure, I won’t go read anything besides the specific answer Google gave me, but if I’m searching for answers at home/by myself, it’s very likely I’ll go to the website and read more. The same goes for many other people. Curiosity is common.

Drew Wilson (user link) says:

Re: Re:

It also depends on the context of the search. If I’m searching for a quick answer while in conversation, sure, I won’t go read anything besides the specific answer Google gave me, but if I’m searching for answers at home/by myself, it’s very likely I’ll go to the website and read more. The same goes for many other people. Curiosity is common.

I had thought the same thing, but then I saw the screenshots of how the AI would be displayed: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/google-search-adds-web-filter-as-it-pivots-to-ai-focused-search-results/

Essentially, you have to scroll a LOT for some results (or click on an entirely different tab). Being right in there in the top few results have historically been key to getting a successful web page. If you’re shoved into the second or third page of results, you are basically fighting over click scraps in the dozens of clicks if you are lucky. If the first chunk of results are the AI results, then ads, then you may have been bumped from visibility for a majority of the viewers who would otherwise visit you. For the first time, I have seen an AI story promising doom that wasn’t completely fabricated click bait, but it depends on how the audience reacts to this change in the long term.

Arianity says:

Re: Re:

Google has been giving them in some form for many years at this point, and there are no reports that I know of suggesting that information websites are losing so much traffic that they struggle to keep existing.

IIRC, Google has been paying sources like Wikipedia to do that? Not sure if that applies to every source they pull those from.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

it disincentivizes people to visit informative web pages so those web pages wither and dry up

But web pages have always “withered and dried up”, and people have long gotten simple answers from the search-engine page summaries (often more easily than from the linked pages, which might be badgering them to sign up or pay). What’s really different about this “AI answer” thing?

I don’t understand your point about WikiHow. I seem to be able to read stuff without signing up, and don’t see any obvious advertising—except for one page that might be sponsored by the United Nations, and a notice about affiliate links. So what effect would a Google summary have, apart from saving them bandwidth? (Unless Google turns the affiliate links into non-affiliate ones?) Also, that site seems intent to wither and die on its own—my god, almost everything on the front page seems like “self-help” bullshit. “How to Believe in Yourself”, “What Does it Mean When You See or Dream About a Blackbird?”, “Angel Number 1551 Explained” (what?), “How to Answer ‘How’s It Going?’ in Any Situation”. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s all AI-generated in the first place. People are really subscribing?

Ethin Probst (profile) says:

Re:

Do you have anything to substantiate this argument other than from webmasters who might be earning subscriptions or other money from people visiting their websites so they can badger them with “Pay us!” messages, or are you just throwing around conjecture? Google has been providing some kind of summary in it’s results for years. It might not be the most accurate summary, but it’s there.
As someone who uses AI/ChatGPT for quite a bit (mainly as a “hey, I want you to be a board for me to bounce ideas off of”, or “Hey, I need help debugging this problem, so let’s figure it out together”), I’ve also found it to be quite good at finding information via Bing. I wish it used more search engines, but I in general find it far more natural to go there, enter a full fleshed-out question, and let it figure out the keywords for that search for me, instead of me going to google (with it’s annoying ads and failure of an autocomplete) and try to figure out the keywords to find the information I’m looking for. Because, overall, Google has in general gotten much, much worse over the last decade. Have you perhaps considered that websites might not get all the traffic they want not because of some AI-generated summary but because Google is just a very, very bad search engine?

Anonymous Coward says:

Recursion?

I don’t know anything, and can’t put my finger on it, but isnt there something about the Google AI offering the results it thinks ate best, and also influencing which results perform best… that kinda violates the whole eating it’s own output training problem that AI has? On a longer than usual scale, maybe? And is it just it’s own output, or any AI influenced output?

Anonymous Coward says:

Search isn't the only thing they're enshittifying

In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Gmail continues to decline. Not only is it consistently one of the top 5 spam sources on the entire Internet, but Google’s insistence on using anti-spam techniques that the rest of the sensible world abandoned years ago continues to generate a ridiculously high false positive rate, disrupting ordinary person-to-person email traffic.

It’s now a race to the bottom between them and Microsoft (also one of the top 5 spam sources, also consistently) to see which can deploy not only the worst email service, but they one that does the most damage to the Internet.

Kaleberg says:

Google needs better AI

Our smoke alarm started chirping, so we asked Google what three chirps mean. It told us what three beeps mean, so it didn’t ask the question. We tried rephrasing with no luck. I tried DuckDuckGo and discovered that it meant the smoke detector was past its expiration date and no longer likely to be accurate.

Unless Google AI gets a lot better, it is going to convince people to move to other search engines that might be able to answer questions.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: If the manual is even correct

I used to do what you suggested, until I found egregious errors (buttons that don’t exist for the feature I want, incorrect instructions, etc).

You must remember that manuals are often written by someone else other than the original development team, and often put out as an afterthought; they sometimes contain “hallucinations” that would put ChatGPT to shame.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Next time, just search for the manual/user guide for the device

…and you’ll get the spam sites that claim to offer you the manual, but then the PDF file you download is just one page with some spammy keywords and a link back to the site.

If possible, get a PDF manual before buying the product. Then you can also pre-check for annoying features, like microwave ovens that beep every minute when done, or things with clocks that will flash if not set. Otherwise, store the manual immediately after buying.

Trying to get a manual for a 10-year-old product (most detectors are good for that long) is likely to be painful, if you can even find the model number and it hasn’t been used for a changed product.

Samuel Abram (profile) says:

Using Duck Duck Go

Honestly, I would use Duck Duck Go if it were any good. Also, I use Bing on my Windows 10 Gaming PC. Most of the time, I find what I’m looking for.

Also, at the very least, we have competition in office software. Once upon a time, Microsoft Office was the only way to go. You had to use Word for documents, Powerpoint for presentations, and Excel for spreadsheets. Now there’s competition from Apple, OpenOffice, and Google. I would say that it’s definitely an improvement compared to 1999!

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