Flock Safety Customers Continue To Act As Government Contractors, Only Without All That Pesky Paperwork
from the surveillance-non-state-(but-also-state!) dept
Flock Safety wants in on the law enforcement surveillance action. It began making inroads by appealing to the next best fascists: homeowners associations. Pitching its ALPRs (automatic license plate readers) to gated communities, Flock promises a crime-free future its pseudo-research can’t back up.
Not that any of that mattered to any of these suburban authoritarians. All they knew is they had cameras capable of surveilling unwanted “intruders,” even if these were just lost drivers, people passing through their “exclusive” neighborhoods on the way to their own less-exclusive neighborhoods, or just kind of “brown.”
Since the rich and the (predominately) white consider law enforcement to be little more than a customer service department, pitching to HOAs meant drawing in cops — the kind of vertical integration all tech companies dream of.
Vertical integration explains a lot of what’s reported here by Thomas Brewster for Forbes. If you’re rich, have a bunch of your own (privately-purchased) cameras, why wouldn’t you just invite cops to shoulder surf your camera feeds? And if they’re your cameras, you can claim it’s a private venture, even if it’s cops doing most of the watching.
Emails obtained via public records requests show Simon Property — the largest mall owner in America — has deputized itself by giving cops always-on access to its parking lot camera feeds.
The emails reveal a previously undisclosed agreement between Simon Property and Flock Safety, a $4 billion car surveillance company backed by Andreessen Horowitz that works with police departments in over 4,000 cities across the country. Simon is a “customer nationwide” and had “recently made the decision to limit access to their individual properties and instead share directly with law enforcement,” according to a July 2023 email between a Flock employee and one of its customers, the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department.
In other words, it appears that Simon is cutting back on providing access to malls’ internal security staff in favor of handing over its video feeds to local cops. The company owns more than 150 shopping centers across 37 states, along with stakes in major retail brands like Forever 21 and J.C. Penney’s.
You’ll notice something in that first sentence. This agreement — while involving law enforcement agencies — was apparently brokered by Flock Safety, a company that has a definite interest in selling more of its ALPRs to more law enforcement agencies.
But the agreement is with Flock. It’s not an agreement with local cops because that would involve oversight, approval from city officials, opportunities for public comment, and all those other things law enforcement agencies consider a waste of time.
Flock is more than happy to perform these intercessions, of course. First off, it wants more private customers. Second, it wants more government customers. Eliminating friction means pleasing both sets of customers simultaneously. And, like many law enforcement agencies, Flock isn’t exactly respectful of applicable laws or whatever few privacy rights might still remain in areas the public can access.
Here’s just one example of this confluence of public and private surveillance from the emails obtained by Forbes:
The emails, obtained by Forbes from the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department, show that Simon began sharing its Flock feeds from its Fashion Valley mall with the agency in May last year. The Sheriff’s Office didn’t respond to requests for comment asking how it used that access.
The emails also pointed to a collaboration between Flock and the San Diego Police Department (a separate agency from the Sheriff’s), and. SDPD Captain Jeff Jordan told Forbes it too had access to Simon Property feeds. Jordan said it would also get alerted when a car on a criminal suspect hotlist went through one of Simon’s cameras.
Simon declined to comment.
What’s shown here is only the tip of the spy-berg. If this is happening in San Diego, it’s happening elsewhere. Lots of retail outlets are beefing up surveillance in response to increases in shoplifting and other criminal activity. (And they’re doing this even if they’re attempting to obscure their own market failures behind sensationalized reporting on retail theft.) If these outlets are owned by Simon Property, chances are they’re sharing live feeds with cops or are at least being nudged in that direction by the property management firm.
More information of this type is bound to surface as time goes on. And while this is somewhat similar to retail outlets sharing surveillance footage with police investigators when reporting criminal acts, it goes far beyond what your average American retail shopper expects to be happening when they park their car in lot loaded with surveillance cameras. It’s one thing to call in the cops to report criminal acts. It’s quite another to give cops always-on or on-demand access to live footage and recordings. But that’s what Flock wants to facilitate. And it will continue to do so because it allows the company to simultaneously be a private company and a government contractor by proxy, allowing it to make the most money from both sides of the public/private gap without having to be fully accountable to either side.
Filed Under: 4th amendment, alpr, cameras, license plate readers, mall security, pollice, san diego, san diego police department, san diego sheriff's department, sdpd, state action, surveillance, surveillance cameras
Companies: flock, flock safety, simon property


Comments on “Flock Safety Customers Continue To Act As Government Contractors, Only Without All That Pesky Paperwork”
Its private property
AND there should be Signs up about that and the monitoring they do.
I wonder How much money they are paying the City? Fro personnel and work done. Like inserting Lic. Plate Numbers into the system.
Or nothing is done, unless there is an instance that requires them to look threw the tapes.
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More @nti-police & anti-law&order h@te speech from this site’s resident der@nged and m@ladjusted @narchist. Keep it up!!
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You know, you don’t have to keep reading the site if Tim’s writing triggers you, bootlicker.
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@narchist scum like the @uthor don’t deserve criticism-free spaces.
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Dance monkey, dance!
Re: Re: Re: rant ≠ criticism
I think you are giving yourself WAY too much credit if you think you are providing criticism with your @sinine @ttemps @(t?) @sserting th@(t?) @dvocating for @ccountability is @nti-police h8(te?) speech (put that one in your spam filter avoidance toolbox) or promoting @narchy.
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Did you drool so hard it short circuited your keyboard bro?
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Nope, just trying to speak the language of a l33t spam-filter dodging h@xor like the OP. Oh wait, you wanted only coherent and cogent comments on a TD article that has less than 6 degrees of separation with law enforcement? Don’t we all….
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Cry moar!
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True, but we’re still waiting for actual criticism from you rather than the usual fact-free, cop bootlicking ad hom attacks that are all you know how to engage in.
Re: know whats wrong about that?
Most police are Traffic cops.
They dont do that much.
They have no enforcement for Any other laws, unless backed by a Court order to DO IT.
Detectives Cost money, and most states only have 1 group, at 1 location in the state.
Average Case load and Solving, BESIDES traffic? 10%? 20%?
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I love traffic enforcement and buy donuts and coffee for any and every traffic cop who’ll let me.
Traffic enforcement keeps my street quiet and the kids safe. I’ve even let the police use my driveway to station an unmarked unit during periods of targeted enforcement.
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Gsoh, that’s a great story, Beav. Time to get back to painting the white picket fence before dad gets home!
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Do you smell toast burning?
Looks like Flock has a scary new competitor (new article from Thomas Brewster)
New Police Tech Can Detect Phones, Pet Trackers And Library Books In A Moving Car
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2024/05/14/police-car-surveillance-tech-uncovers-phones-pet-trackers-and-library-books/
Fun times.
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The only type of person who would object to this is someone up to no good (or a communist, which is of course redundant).
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Or, you know, people who give a shit about their privacy.
Since you apparently don’t, what’s your social security number and bank account information?
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says the righteous AC. You a communist since you object to having your name attached to your actions?
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I’m a crypto-fascist.
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Losing money on a shitcoin and huffing white supremacist farts doesn’t make you a crpyto-fascist, just a fascist. The crypto- part means hidden and you’re not hiding.
“in response to increases in shoplifting and other criminal activity.”
It seems that every election cycle has its claims of crime increases, they like to claim crime is very bad now and we need to crack down .. law ‘n order talk always gets the votes of narcissistic small minded folk.
Why is “intruders” in scare quotes? Slipping past security to wander a gated community is no different from hopping a fence to wander around someone else’s back yard. They really are intruding.
You can dislike the societal implications of the rich and upper-middle class locking themselves away from the rest of the country, but don’t pretend it is somehow classist or racist to not want strangers on your own property without your permission.
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said the troll
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Except it is classist and often racist to live in a gated community. There’s a difference between “I don’t want strangers on my private property” and “I don’t want black people or poor people able to drive down my street.”
Simon Property can run their business how they like. If you don’t like their business practices, go elsewhere or build your own.
Re: Why do so many people think that's a gotcha...
And people can use their first amendment rights to free speech to criticism them. Don’t like it move to a country where people can’t do that.
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Lead by example
It’s very idyllic here, yes, and a lot of that has to do with our town’s population being 97% White and there only being a handful of blacks.
What the flock is going on here?
Oh thats right, the death throes of malls trying to make money.
We added yet another reason for people to not want to go to the mall, but our next plan of requiring facial id to access the doors will totally work out.
Not just Simon Property...
FWIW, I have noticed that Flock’s cameras have gone up at all of the entrances/exits of the parking lot of my local Lowe’s home improvement store as well as the country club next to my neighborhood. Not sure if they have brokered deals with the local police, but from the looks of this discussion on Reddit, it must have. Nonetheless, a lot of their cameras have definitely been popping up on private property.
Unlike with police, screeumg with the alprs owned by hoas is not against the law
Just have an infrared LED setup with a kill switch. Turn your LEDs on in the neighborhood anfbturn them off when you leave the area
Just like with some hose using their own radar and lidar and issuing their own fines, jamming lidar abd radar owned by the hoa does not break any laws
It is only illegal to jam police radar. Jamming radar guns your hoa uses does break any state or federal laws since they are not being used by police
If a radar gun is not police owned, jamming it is 100 perent legal
I don’t like that Disney, Cedar Fair, and Six Flags are using alprs now just because of a few bad apples that caused problems
As long as I’m obeying the rulesy plate number is none of their business and I found a waybl to foil plate readers that is 100% legal
Just takey plates out of the frame and tape them up to my windows.
Because they are still visible to human eyeballs it does not break any laws anywhere in Mexico, Canada, or the United States to do that.
In those three countries where their parks are, there are no lawsakijg it illegal to put my platez in my windows to evade plate readers
There were concepts leaked years ago for Disney parks worldwide
There are no laws in Britain, Australia, Mexico, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, South Africa, the uae, Taiwan, Hawaii, Cuba, or Argentina that makes it illegal to evade plate readers Disney should put in should those parks ever be built
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Jamming hidden cameras is fully legal
The one Iranian American woman who found out Iranian agents put up.a camera outside her home couldbuavr deployed a jammer to foul it up and wouid not have been breaking any laws
Masih Aleinijad could have deployed a jammer against that camera and would not have woken any laws in the USA
That the Iranians were trying to abduct her means she could have faced extra charges in Iran for jamming their cameras had they got her to Iran, but there is no law she could prosecuted under in the United States of she had jammed those Iranian agents’ cameras
Since it would be for her safety, she would not have been subject to prosecution in the United States.
There is still a right to self defense in America and jamming Iranian argents’ cameras would be self defense
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If the camera’s hidden, then how do you know there’s anything to be jammed, shit for brains?